Why the Common Problem of Sex Abuse in Boy Scouts and Catholic Church? Compare/Contrast

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

I was wondering if anyone here ever ran a mental comparison of the Boy Scouts and the Roman Catholic Church, and listed their similarities and differences, and determined why both of these large and very embedded organizations share the common problems of pedophilia and undeclared homosexuality.

I guess what I am looking for, in a nutshell, is what people think regarding the intended purpose of these establishments and the actual effect they have on society.

It seems to me that the weak link is almost always the priest or the scout leader. They are the ones with the most opportunity to abuse. They are male. No one is keeping watch over them, either. And why?

I feel that integrating the sexes for long term activities and fairly distributing authority between men and women would completely solve this problem. Many people argue against egalitarianism. I have no idea what their problem is, really. Do they want kids to keep getting sexually abused?

The 60's had a good thing going for it that sexually repressive religious freaks took away. And I am a bit religious too! But lately, I've been more for freedom.

What about you? Opinions/more developed thoughts, etc.?

[sdv]

Paedophiles plan their abuse and thus are drawn to environments where they will have opportunity (children experiencing feelings and thoughts about their sexuality and with parents not present) and the circumstances where they are likely to get away with it (e.g. where they hold positions of authority in an environemt with a strict hierarchy and rules). This then creates an environment where such behaviour flourishes.

Just a sociological point of view!

By the way, I don't agree with your inclusion of homosexuality in this scenario, as it implies that homosexuality is some kind of deviant behaviour. Just my opinion!

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

I didn't mean homosexuality itself,
note that I said, undeclared, meaning,
the parents have no choice regarding the orientation of the role model to which their child is exposed.

Personally, I don't think I would have a problem with a gay scout troop.
But we hear a lot of bad things about boys being molested.
Why are men attracted to boys, and is that not the definition of homosexual deviancy?

Also, gay priests tend to be a norm in some circles because they aren't allowed to have normal relationships.
Normal meaning average. the trend. Marriage vs. insecurity and total devotion to some establishment.

I think it's all stuffy and weird.

I didn't mean to offend any gays.

There is a huge difference between consenting adults and children being molested,
and priests being forced into homosexual relations because of a culture of deprivation.

Also, there is no good reason a woman shouldn't know woodcraft, i.e. everything the boy scouts get to learn.

Screw selling cookies. That is really wrong.

My father did one good thing in his life,
which was trying to show me what he knew about survival.

[spiritguide]

Do the research and let us know objectively what you find. All institutions have a small minority of negativity within them and to see it differently is shallow. IMHO The actions of a few should not reflect on the whole. Same question can be asked of girl scouts, rainbow girls and gym classes. Authority positions attract psychopaths/abusers. Time to teach the children to use their intuition and common sense. Public education has done a fine job over the last two decades or more to dumb them down, not think and never question authority figures.

[shadowstalker]

I think one of the reason why these Men choose boys is not just control but the fact that these boys can not get pregnant.
Same with the catholic priest as it was made the rule for priests not to get married for there worldly goods would go to the family when the priest died and not the church.

In other words boys/men don't get pregnant IE no babies for DNA proof in that sense.

[hangel]

all i can say about this is:
once i had a cockerel.. and a few hens. couple of the hens were quite young. the cockerel would not touch them until they reached their full sexual maturity. If it turned out that one 'hen' had matured and became a cockerel then there will be a fight for the harem of hens.
conclusion: its not observed in nature that immature individuals are taking part in mating.

i still didnt find answer to why some .... well - humans - is not a right description for these... - animals - neither.. lets say 'deviants' think that this is acceptable to engage themselves in sexual behaviour with children. Despite if that sexual behaviour is homo- or hetero- oriented. i hope they will burn in hell!

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

I should not have made this thread, but I appreciate the comments of everyone here!
Especially those who willingly confront the issue.

We have to confront the evil in ourselves before we can really judge the world!

p.s. it's hard to be slaves of an institution when you are more worried about educating children than slaving for said institution

i learned too late that kids give you the chance to be the best person you can be, but all too often they see the worst of us adults...

[Nanoo Nanoo]

I was exposed to this in boy scouts. the leader was possibly involved but there was never anything un toward happened. I senced something was not quite right so i kept my eyes open. the leader i spoke about i suspect was extremely careful. I have to admit he was very well liked by everyone in the community.

and having been exposed to this in retrospect the problem is i was never educated by my parents any protocal as what to do in these circumstances. The problem is intrinsicly parents turned a blind eye to this possibility. Not that mine would ever turn a blind eye, they just didnt ever broach the subject of sex education at all.

So i was left to my own instincts which at the right time kicked in and then i made my stance clear at scouts merely saying that what we were studying was weird and i didnt like it. Nothing ever happened again since i made my stance clear. I was 12 at the time.

So had my parents educated me on stranger danger and sexual abuse early detection i would have known what to look out for and report it. If they got to me first with the confident training that i SHOULD report anything to them no matter what anyone else says then i would have exposed this.

I dont think egalitarianism or feminist rights has anything to do with this. I have had sexual advances from women as well when i was 13 on 2 occasions. the difference was they did not mince words they came straight out and said it. So this BS about men being the only ones ... its because men are in those positions traditionlly , put women there and they are just as likely to commit these sorts of crimes. How many stories have we heard of mothers in religious orders abusing power? Countless.

The greater numbers of men being in the limelight is because men far outnumber women in these roles. its like saying women are better and safer drivers because of crash statistics but they dont account that there are 5 times more men on the roads and that men drive professionally 6 to 8 hours a day. Women are not safer drivers in fact quite the opposite. SO statistics can really give us a unjust view of whats on the table.

So lets get away from the sexist babble and put the focus where it should be and that is effective training from the parents. If parents took an interes in educating their children then this wouls be nipped in the bud.


Naniu

[donk]

It's not a question of thinking the deviant behavior is "acceptable", I think the illustration, especially your hen-house one, shows that there is either a separate species or subset within our species...not sure how you wanna break it down, but lets just a group of beings that are truly abominations to what we think of as life.

A being that gains energy, engages in a choice, to take the energy of the fear of a pre-pubescent being, has a very specific taste, which is abhorrent to us, because it is against anything that makes any sense to our reality and idea of what life is.

This is what the Horus-Ra thread is about. Attempting to identify this phenomenon, which I think we have done a fairly good job of doing. Once you can detach yourself from the revulsion and feelings such an "unnatural" act/choice/decision...then what houman and others were trying to do is spread awareness of the truth and reality, so that action can be taken.

My favorite activists on this are John Lash: for his information, his method is hunt them down and kill them, take predatory actions to the predators. I don't think this can be successful. Jay Weidner, also very informative, seems to be exploring and attempting to spread a different approach, which you need to listen to him yourself to understand, it's not as simple to describe as Lash, and maybe not even really developed more than ideas and interpretations I project on to what he says.

Anyway, just wanted to put that out there for anyone interested. Difficult, but important topic...

¤=[Post Update]=¤

So what I meant to say is that whether or not the perpetrator thinks what it's doing is "acceptable" or not is beside the point, it brings up other issues. There may be a few who are taught (programmed) to behave that way (damaged humans: your darth vaders) but the ones that do it as they honestly get something from it (true predators: your emporers) are a separate issue that hide behind dysfunctional reactionary used sick programmed people.

Anyone that feels regret (or anything about it) is a whole different animal from the originators of this clearly "not innate, natural" (to humans) behavior. Both cause problems that end with same outcomes, however ending the problem is only going to occur when the predator, the psychopath, the abominable behavior is rooted out and dealt with, then the clean up of the victim/lackey/slaves can show progress. Until then, vaders will continue to pop up everywhere

[Nanoo Nanoo]

oh i just remembered , when i was as young as six a friend of my mothers used to love me giving a foot massgae. I enjoyed it very much , i guess i had a foot fettish. I especially enjoyed it when she rubbed her foot on my crotch. She was well into her 40s and i am not making this up either. The difference was it was concentual. I must have been a horny kid because i enjoyed the experience. Perhaps this wasnt sexual abuse but lets face it was it done by a man ? nope .. far less sexual stories are reported by young men having sexual advances by women because it feels natural in a sence. most instances its even brought on by the interest or curiocity.

statistics


n

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

I don't agree at all that women commit the same types of crimes, or commit them at the same frequency.
From my understanding, men are more likely to rape and abuse, and commit robbery, and women are more likely to steal.

there is absolutely no evidence that women are less safe on the road.
On what are you basing your statistics, might I ask?
My thread is based not on assumption but fact,
that sexual predators exist within male dominated professions not as an exception but a rule.

I know many men don't feel comfortable agreeing with this and will continue the ostrich routine of head in the sand, blind eye to the evil.


I don't expect every man to be a hero.
that would make heroes cheap indeed.


I half expected this thread to eventually turn into a massive pissing match,
who can ruin the other person's sandbox.

Well, I know that some female teachers for example have had sex with students who were minors.

but these cases are actually pretty rare or we would be outraged. else they are under reported.

I am sick to death of hearing about men preying on other men, women, and children.

The US military is rife with sexual abuse, by the way.
recently some generals got into a lot of trouble because of it.

it's a god damned plague, people ought to be ashamed of being so weak and animalistic.

then to stoop to the level of saying things like "Men are better than women at XYZ" instead of confronting the issue at hand,
which is that there are too many male sex abusers in the world in general and in professions that demand integrity.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

ok

my sexual abuses in my life

women 3

men 1

fact ' not statistics.


driving on the roads i have noticed 4 times as many accidents with women drivers as opposed to men, they are mostly rear enders possibly because they are distracted on the phone , doing makeup whilst driving a motor vehicle,,, i have seen this daily. fact besides the inclusion of this was to draw a parralell in statistics , not to draw attention to women being less capable in anything. perhaps you should remove your head from the sand too. the reporting of sex crimes against men is far less .. men generally believe we gotta cop it on the chin.. hence why we dont report these things.



this is not opinion , this is not statistics this is what i have seen and experienced with my own eyes.

i get the feeling that you were a victim once ? am i correct ? this would explain the addictions and abuse of drugs ? gambling ? i can see you are wanting justice. i agree with you , you should have it but not at the expence of truth.



N

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

hey Nanoo Nanoo, my uncle used that approach to molest one of my sisters.
He tried to transition from a massage to full on molestation.

i am sorry that this happened to you at the hands of some 40 year old woman who clearly knew better and was depraved.

it's really sad to hear about this. often it's family or friends of the family who abuse male children. and coaches.

and yes, there were many male predators in my family and zero, zero, zero female offenders.


and I have not seen more accidents involving men than women.
i drove 100 miles each way from home to my base while in the military and didn't see one god damned difference.


why is driving coming up over and over in a thread about sex abuse?
are you trying to drive the discussion off course into shallow waters and sandbars of distraction?

my boat isn't ready to stop there, that men are just better at the f***** job.

F that.

GRRRRR XD

[Nanoo Nanoo]

i did update why i stated the driving thing. its about skewed statistics.

its merely to draw attention to how un reported statistics can skew our opinuion. Yes i would agree women are more likely to be sexually abused by men .. the greater number of men being hetero. men are more likely to be abused by women because the greater number are hetero. as opposed to same sex abuse , wheich still happens but is less likely because of sheer numbers.

and before we get off track and miss the whole point. lets take one second and look at my point about educating kids. should be the focus to change things for the better./

n

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Posted by Nanoo Nanoo (here)
i did update why i stated the driving thing. its about skewed statistics.

its merely to draw attention to how un reported statistics can skew our opinuion. Yes i would agree women are more likely to be sexually abused by men .. the greater number of men being hetero. men are more likely to be abused by women because the greater number are hetero. as opposed to same sex abuse , wheich still happens but is less likely because of sheer numbers.

and before we get off track and miss the whole point. lets take one second and look at my point about educating kids. should be the focus to change things for the better./

n

it was a dumb thread for me to start!
maybe not the best topic here, XD
ty for the part about education

[shadowstalker]

Posted by Tesla_WTC_Solution (here)

Posted by Nanoo Nanoo (here)
i did update why i stated the driving thing. its about skewed statistics.

its merely to draw attention to how un reported statistics can skew our opinuion. Yes i would agree women are more likely to be sexually abused by men .. the greater number of men being hetero. men are more likely to be abused by women because the greater number are hetero. as opposed to same sex abuse , wheich still happens but is less likely because of sheer numbers.

and before we get off track and miss the whole point. lets take one second and look at my point about educating kids. should be the focus to change things for the better./

n

it was a dumb thread for me to start!
maybe not the best topic here, XD
ty for the part about education

No your fine.
Your just not getting the reactions you where looking for.

One rule to go by with anything like this.

NO EXPECTATION.

As one is rarely ever satisfied with the outcome.

Keep an open mind and one will learn much.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Nah, I really think it was a stupid thing to post!
I hadn't had my coffee yet.

////\(8888)/\\\\... <---- trolling spider runs away

[shadowstalker]

Posted by Tesla_WTC_Solution (here)
Nah, I really think it was a stupid thing to post!
I hadn't had my coffee yet.

////\(8888)/\\\\... <---- trolling spider runs away

No it wasn't, never be afraid of bringing up taboo topics, this topic is indeed rare on this bored and there is nothing wrong with bringing up again.

Think about it, the bored it's self is taboo to the sheeple, ooh don't go there you would be considered a conspiracy theorist, oh no don't do that to yourself, you want to keep your friends don't you, and on and on..

[mgray]

Not sure if we are still on the header topic, but having been both a Boy Scout and altar boy in the Roman Catholic Church as well as attending all-boys catholic school until college, I have never come across deviant behavior by an adult. So I would not say its a large problem. Statistically no different than the general population.

[Snoweagle]

It is somewhat disingenuous to single out these two groups for comparison without reflection on the impact of other respected groups who participate in equally and worse abuse within the context you allude.
Whilst the Catholic Church is being targeted now through the media worldwide for an assortment of abuses, it is "politically convenient" to avoid the same scourge in Islam and even worse being presided over by the Jewish Torah with the safeguarding and protection of their own flocks from public scrutiny. Each of these three CULTS share one ethos of abuse. It is easy to single out abuse to children though these ALL domineer women as chattel, servants and slaves. Irony is, women allow it, cest le vie.

Abuse is abysmal and will continue whilst the "weak" depend on tertiary higher authorities to guide their paths. People need to wake up and stand up, by themselves, on their own, as only then will they find communion with those now standing at their shoulders.

The western worlds cultural demise has inflicted on itself the means to separate families, breaking spiritual lifetime bonds with the bemusement of material wealth by chastising empathy behind a veil of lies. To contest this ingrained state of mind we endure mockery and derision as by singling out ONE over another rallies even greater secrecy for those not charged.

We are in changing times. Soon, it appears, the hammer will come down and then this debate will have a most glorious airing but not in a forum but across the globe.