The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

[Malerogro]

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
Various people talk about “ascension”. Well, what we need instead is “descension”, if there is such a word. We need a descent of the higher intelligence and light in our higher D parts more fully into our bodies and hearts and minds. That’s what meditation also does, if used properly. Make your light shine more and more strongly – that’s what I want and suggest you to achieve. That’s what meditation can do for you, eventually.

Of course, the more that the veil has been lifted in a general way for you, the more natural, if not easy, it should be for you to separate from the lowest level, which is the physical. That’s because you’ll already have a strong sense, even if maybe not a clear one, of what some higher levels might involve.

I love the proposal of descension! It totally resonates with me I think this is what I have been doing so far, learning to recognize the higher dimensions (especialy the fifth) in my heart and mind (not the body so much yet, have to work on that..). This explains my discomfort when people talk about ascension. It seems so far away and I am more a here and now earth person. Maybe my mission is to bring the fifth dimension to the earth. I feel more and more love for the earth and all that is. Unconditional love and deep compassion is where I end all my journeys through everything that is happening right now (with all the feelings involved). At least that is where I personally feel that I should be right now.
Yet like I said I have difficulty experiencing the fourth dimension consciously..

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by Malerogro (here)
../ I have not practiced meditation so much yet and have not eperienced full OBE's although I can feel myself moving towards one sometimes. Also when I have been experiencing and operating out of the fifth I need sometime to get my coördination right again in the third dimension. When I get up I stumble or I drop something.
Do you think that meditation and OBE's are necessary roads to take to become aware of the fourth dimensions or are there ways to recognize the fourth dimension more in daily life without resorting to OBE's or meditation?

Hi, Malerogo! "Meditation = concentration" was and is the traditional Indian approach to meditation. The more you learn how to become very intensely concentrated, the more you find ever higher and higher levels to concentrate on.

As I've mentioned in some recent posts, my preference is to flow in awareness once concentration takes me to a level of higher awareness. That is the Zen approach. But you can do it either the Indian way or the Zen way.

Of course, this means you have indeed been learning some level of basic skills in meditation throughout your schooling and education. An infant doesn't have an adult mind yet, so for them "paying attention" means concentration and awareness at the same time.

Although the education system does teach us to concentrate quite well, it doesn't teach us how to apply the concentration "inward" very much. When you'e doing that, you're meditating. But if you don't learn some way to look intensely and accurately at you, how will you ever know whether or not you are OB travelling at a given time?

We all OB travel to upper 5D when we dream each night. But again, the problem is remembering, it's noticing that we're doing it while we're doing it and also afterwards. Practicing OB travel is just practicing ways to notice, and remember.

I'll address some of your other concerns in my next post.

Kind regards,
TH

[Malerogro]

Thanks for your reply!

Although the education system does teach us to concentrate quite well, it doesn't teach us how to apply the concentration "inward" very much. When you'e doing that, you're meditating.

Well that I have been doing a lot throughout my entire life, and in the last 10 years very consciously so. It has been especially useful for me to learn how to look at different aspects of myself through a fifth dimension perspective. I have always looked at the world at large a lot through a fifth dimension perspective of unconditional love and appreciation. Yet sometimes it was hard to keep seeing the people that you love but keep hurting you through that perspective. And it has been especially difficult for me to approach myself that way because I incorporated a lot of negativity from my environment. A breakthrough for me has been to learn to treat myself with unconditional love too and forgive myself as I did the world. So I do concentrate, look inward, and become more aware, yet I do not really sit down and meditate through all the exercises that are proposed throughout this thread. Maybe that is the next step! Looking forward for your next post

[AwakeInADream]

I've managed to get a really good dialogue going on between me and my higher self over the last few days, starting off by repeatedly doing the exercise in post #24. After a while I turned it into a kind of walking meditation, I went about my day normally but emptied my mind, and I kept stopping and asking just one question: "What would my higher self do now?", and the answers came immediately. So I followed the will and direction of my higher self for many hours each day, and this has given me a glimpse as to what it would be like to be fully aligned with my higher self permanently. It turns out that my higher self is just like me, only me at my very best. My higher self doesn't smoke (so neither did I for that time), doesn't watch TV and enjoys cleaning! I think that if I carry on doing this for I few hours each day I may just end up being him, and this makes me feel rather excited and hopeful about the future.

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by Malerogro (here)
Thanks for your reply!

Although the education system does teach us to concentrate quite well, it doesn't teach us how to apply the concentration "inward" very much. When you'e doing that, you're meditating.

Well that I have been doing a lot throughout my entire life, and in the last 10 years very consciously so. It has been especially useful for me to learn how to look at different aspects of myself through a fifth dimension perspective. I have always looked at the world at large a lot through a fifth dimension perspective of unconditional love and appreciation. Yet sometimes it was hard to keep seeing the people that you love but keep hurting you through that perspective. And it has been especially difficult for me to approach myself that way because I incorporated a lot of negativity from my environment. A breakthrough for me has been to learn to treat myself with unconditional love too and forgive myself as I did the world. So I do concentrate, look inward, and become more aware, yet I do not really sit down and meditate through all the exercises that are proposed throughout this thread. Maybe that is the next step! Looking forward for your next post

If you are sitting quietly and concentrating carefully on what is “inner” in you, then you are meditating. We get too caught up in special words like “meditation”, and in systematizations. I feel it’s necessary at present for me to make some more comments, probably over a few threads, about how (inward) concentration works. This subject has been intensively researched and explored for centuries in the meditation and the psychotherapeutic traditions and no doubt in shamanism and the magical traditions too.

All inward concentration involves (often subconsciously) concentrating on one point in the body or in the energy field. Mainly, the three possible points are the heart center, the mid-brow or inner-eye center in the center of the head, or the oversoul point above the head. One thing I should make clear before we go further is that first it’s very important to learn to (inwardly) concentrate on the heart center first, until you have kind of mastered doing it from there. Malerogo, I’ll be surprised if you don’t do this most of the time in your self-reflections, even though you may not have consciously noticed. Concentration on this center develops love, though love is not everything. (Understanding is also equally necessary and indispensable as love eventually, and is often even more important.)

Secondly, it eventually becomes very important to learn to inwardly concentrate on the head center. Sepia’s thread, for example, presents a considerable amount of material regarding this. Concentrating on this opens up your inner powers and abilities.

Concentration on the oversoul point is too hard for a beginner, except while they are reading or “thinking” deeply. But descension – with the profound peace and silence entering into and permeating and transforming all the lower centers -- only comes from activation of this point. Such activation only comes after there has been skillful concentration on it. It sounds highly likely, Malerogro, that you have done this to some extent, again (presumably) without consciously noticing.

The way I have described the watching-the-breath meditation (as an example of how meditation works in general) was to treat thoughts as being kind of intruders passing by, in which one learns to pay no interest. But the best way to meditate is to more proactively see where your thoughts are coming from and identifying that they don’t come from yourself anyway. If you can do that, you can still yourself inwardly (for which read “forgive yourself” and “forgive others”, among other things) and throw all the rubbishy thoughts away. Malerogro, it seems to me that you are probably well along the way to doing this already. Don’t worry about the “meditation” label or the “exercise” label. Just keep doing as you do.

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by AwakeInADream (here)
I've managed to get a really good dialogue going on between me and my higher self over the last few days, starting off by repeatedly doing the exercise in post #24. After a while I turned it into a kind of walking meditation, I went about my day normally but emptied my mind, and I kept stopping and asking just one question: "What would my higher self do now?", and the answers came immediately. So I followed the will and direction of my higher self for many hours each day, and this has given me a glimpse as to what it would be like to be fully aligned with my higher self permanently. It turns out that my higher self is just like me, only me at my very best. My higher self doesn't smoke (so neither did I for that time), doesn't watch TV and enjoys cleaning! I think that if I carry on doing this for I few hours each day I may just end up being him, and this makes me feel rather excited and hopeful about the future.

Sounds to me like there's some serious "descension" going on!

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by Malerogro (here)
Dan33 recognized me in another thread as operating out of 5D so that inspired me to delve more deeply into the subject. I do feel particularly at home in the 5th dimension but I have the feeling I skip the fourth in my awareness, or maybe I move through it very quickly without noticing. Any reasons I might be afraid of staying in the fourth or become aware of what is happening there? Do you think it is necessary for me to do so?
I feel like I am wavering sometimes between the third and the fifth dimension and to be honest, that is starting to wear me down. Maybe I can find some more steadfastness ... when I become more aware of what is happening in the fourth?

I usually skip the fourth and the fifth as well, Malerogro. The fourth and the fifth contain your baggage, your ego. Your baggage is created largely by all your traumatic past. At the time a past traumatic event occurred, by its very nature it seemed gigantic to you and totally crushing and horrible.

In 4D and to a lesser extent in 5D, you may accidentally step (literally) into part of your baggage. In that case it would feel like stepping into hell. Though psychic protection should guide you away from ever doing so.

The other interesting feature of both 4D and 5D is that whatever and wherever you think of, there you are instantly. So, if you should encounter any unpleasant being or entity, their unpleasantness will seem greatly magnified in comparison with how they would seem in 3D. That’s because whatever negative thing they think of, they can bring into manifestation instantly. By the same token, you are equally more powerful in 4D too, and even more so in 5D.

I’m not sure if what you (or Dan33) seem to identify as “5D” is really higher levels of 4D. Although 5D contains forms, it is an abstract world, made of thoughts. Emotions are left behind in the 4D world. That doesn’t mean that “feeling” of some kind doesn’t exist beyond 4D. But emotions don’t.

Another reason for avoiding lower 4D is that it contains many confidence tricksters and also false “heavens” belonging to almost every variety of religion or magic and so on.

For reasons like that, I very rarely go there, except, no doubt, for whizzing through it on the way to more harmonious places. I certainly fail to see any reason why you should or would want to linger in the 4D world, Malerogro, or visit it for very long – except maybe for its uppermost level.

You say you feel you're "wavering" between the third and fifth, or that you lack coordination in the third after visiting the fifth. Both of those things would occur because you aren't grounding yourself sufficiently after returning into the third. There've been a number of posts in this thread about grounding. If what you read there doesn't help you completely, please tell us and I can go into more detail then.

[kintun]

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
Something else to ponder is that although we move around in a 3D world, our emotions move in a 4D world and our (deeper) thoughts and intellect move in a 5D one. And somebody who is clairvoyant enough will see much of the scenery of the 4D plane without needing to go through the vibrations and travel out of their 3D body. They will see such things as auras around other people, and also energy fields or thought-forms or beings in the 4D world who don’t have any 3D body. I’d like to ask: if such a person can already see what’s in the 4D world, and therefore interact with everything in it, aren’t they already effectively in it? Why would they even bother to astral travel?

Another question to ponder. I happen to know that in some of their dreams every night people meet with their close friends and other significant people in their life at the time. If both they and the people they meet aren’t lucid for at least part of this, then what’s the point of meeting said people in dreamland at all? Moreover, how the heck do they find and exchange things with their friends so easily if they’re traveling blind all the way? This is one of a number of reasons why I find it impossible to believe other than that everybody lucidly astral travels every night. The real mystery is, why do most people forget that they did that, last night and every other night of their lives?

This post really made me think....
Until about 3 years ago, I always thought that I had a very clear or smart consciousness, though I never questioned myself how it was possible that I could "see" dead people, or histories attached to objects. I just thought I was kind of fast picking up details or information that was delivered by others in the conversation.
Well, I decided to get into it, and had a couple of teachers that showed me how to use this "ability". But, until now, I never understood how could I be awake and writing and at the same time, "be" in another place, completely aware, with all my senses and conscious. I guess it is possible. If it is so, then I suppose I wander between D's daily.....which could be a good explanation for the way I receive detailed information about others.


And about the other question, lately I have been visited by different people who are "teaching me" all sort of things. Unfortunately, I have brief memories of books, subjects, but thats it. I'm sure my subtle bodies have taken the lessons, but I can't remember them

Love to all,

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by Malerogro (here)
Maybe I can find some more steadfastness ...

Malerogro, if you’re interested in increasing your “steadfastness”, you may like to consider the posts I have been making over the last week regarding concentration. I would prefer to talk of “concentration” rather than “steadfastness”, because concentration is something you can work on and refine quite directly.

In post #329 I also mentioned how important I considered “one-pointedness” to be – particularly in the sense of putting yourself totally into whatever you may be doing, regardless of how petty or routine or unimportant it might be, or seem to be.

In Japanese Zen Buddhism, one-pointedness is something everyone is conscious of trying to put into effect all the time. So, concentration, particularly concentration inward, is something that all the meditation and other esoteric traditions consider to be very, very important, far more than we may realize.

Perhaps the posts in this thread regarding “grounding” also have some relevance to increasing one’s “steadfastness”. Those posts were mainly in the last week of December and the first week of January. As I've said, I would expect more groundedness to be a complete solution to any problems of "wavering" or feeling "unsteady" as a result of your visiting OB realities.

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by kintun (here)
Until about 3 years ago, I always thought that I had a very clear or smart consciousness, though I never questioned myself how it was possible that I could "see" dead people, or histories attached to objects. I just thought I was kind of fast picking up details or information that was delivered by others in the conversation.
Well, I decided to get into it, and had a couple of teachers that showed me how to use this "ability". But, until now, I never understood how could I be awake and writing and at the same time, "be" in another place, completely aware, with all my senses and conscious. I guess it is possible. If it is so, then I suppose I wander between D's daily.....which could be a good explanation for the way I receive detailed information about others.

After a while, with enough experience, it becomes "normal" to sometimes see a number of or many different dimensions at the same time. All the other dimensions are right here, full of life that people don't usually see going on. This is why creative geniuses can tap into the most extraordinary perceptions.

... lately I have been visited by different people who are "teaching me" all sort of things. Unfortunately, I have brief memories of books, subjects, but thats it. I'm sure my subtle bodies have taken the lessons, but I can't remember them
Love to all,

I'm sure you are learning the lessons on more subtle planes, kintun. That happened to me also for a number of years. At first, though, I found that life in the 3D world seemed tougher for me. This was because it seemed so ridiculous and limited compared to what I knew was possible. Also, I initially didn't know how to communicate much about what I was experiencing to others. But eventually, I consider it's a matter of achieving the "descent" of the treasures from more subtle worlds more and more into the 3D world, and making a difference in the lives of the people around you -- not necessarily at some "spiritual" level either, but as a friend or parent or co-worker and so on, and also just creating improvements or helpful ways of behaving or getting things done, often just at a "small is beautiful" grass roots level. Or just having the detachment to "keep your head while everyone around you is losing theirs."

[Malerogro]

Perhaps the posts in this thread regarding “grounding” also have some relevance to increasing one’s “steadfastness”. Those posts were mainly in the last week of December and the first week of January. As I've said, I would expect more groundedness to be a complete solution to any problems of "wavering" or feeling "unsteady" as a result of your visiting OB realities.

Hi TraineeHuman, thank you so much for you elaborate reply! What you wrote totally rings true to me. I will continue working on the heart, on grounding, and then I will move to the other points in the body you suggested. For sure, I will return to this thread often for advice and I will be happy to share my experiences with you. It might take a while though! But I am sure you are not going anywhere (except for OB realities ) and neither am I.

I wish you the very best for now!

[Joe Akulis]

Greetings Trainee!

Let me add my name to the list of folks who are most grateful to you for starting this thread, and for all you have done with everyone since. You are setting a terrific example for the rest of us and I am learning so much from you. Your descriptions of the astral planes, when I combine them with all the material I've already soaked up, are really making things a lot clearer for me. I consider myself a bit of a Monroe pupil as his books and CDs have been the most appealing to me. And I'm starting to see how most of his focus levels map to what you're calling the 4d area. And that upper 4d level that you're referring to a couple posts back I bet is what he calls Focus 27, where a lot of people like to take a "retrieval" to help with the transitions or recoveries that they need to make. Is that pretty much where the "tunnel of light" takes everyone? The receiving area, or the park, it's sometimes called. I guess it's an infinite number of things depending on what's needed. People also set up little homes away from home there, it sounds like. Very neat. And his belief system territories are those with all the different heavens and hells in focus 23-25.

I used some of the hemi-sync cds over last summer to get familliar with his methods of helping to get you into a deep meditative state. Not bad, since I was a complete noob up til that point. I slacked off on that over the winter but kept on soaking up knowledge. I think I'm ready to make a better effort at going OOB and using that to gain some skill with seeing and hearing in 4D. Then eventually, I hope I get what I need so that I can do it just from a mediative state without the need to go OOB anymore. We'll see.

I do have a couple questions for you. The first is about whether or not you are still open to laying one of those psychic healings on me sometime, if the opportunity ever comes up. It sounds like it could be a great help to a fledgling. Or better yet, just come yank me out and shake the dust off. :-)

Also, this quote of yours has me pretty curious: "Even a simple practice such as fasting, for instance, can lead to insanity quite quickly if carried out with a lack of detailed knowledge of how to manage it." Care to spend a post on that one? :-)

The reason I ask is because I'm making an effort to raise my energy levels using some of the things I've learned. Like ditching meat, caffeine, and alcohol. I'm doing some more meditating again in my copper pyramid to get the energy flowing; get the chakras spinning. Practicing some grounding techniques and such. I created my pyramid a couple months ago and ever since I tried it out the first week, my forehead has been buzzing, as if to say, "Hey, you started this, don't stop now." But I've been kinda timid about what I might experience and that may have kept me from diving in wholeheartedly. Thanks to this thread, and a couple of major dreams last night, I'm more ... secure about the way I feel about it all now.

Just thought of a 3rd question: Do you think those 3 glass ceilings are referring to our ability to travel in 4d, then in 5d, then in 6d? I'm thinking that since you said once we learn to reside in 6d, then we have graduated from earth school. Those things make it sound like if there are only going to be two glass ceilings soon, then we are all getting bumped up to 4d, and then will be able to work a lot more easily at the other two ceilings, I hope. But if we were bumped to 5d, then that would only leave one ceiling, not two. Just at thought.

Much love to all here, and I hope to see you out there some day!

Joe

[Malerogro]

I usually skip the fourth and the fifth as well, Malerogro. The fourth and the fifth contain your baggage, your ego. Your baggage is created largely by all your traumatic past. At the time a past traumatic event occurred, by its very nature it seemed gigantic to you and totally crushing and horrible. I’m not sure if what you (or Dan33) seem to identify as “5D” is really higher levels of 4D. Although 5D contains forms, it is an abstract world, made of thoughts. Emotions are left behind in the 4D world. That doesn’t mean that “feeling” of some kind doesn’t exist beyond 4D. But emotions don’t.

What you said about 4D and 5D still containing baggage might explain what I wrote in the villagejust now, you agree?
"Here and now it hits me how much I have attacked my father on a psychic level. He has been the one person that always pushed my buttons and got on my nerves. I've always tried to do right by him but never quite got his recognition for it. Now I realise that I might have tried to get his approval in all the wrong ways anyhow. And while growing up I have blamed him so many times for hurting me and for not giving me the recognition I needed. On a higher level I know that he unconditionally loves me but he just cannot really communicate it in the 3D world. I have discovered that I have been most powerful in 5D (as characterized by unconditional love and forgiveness for all that exists). It worries me that I have treated my father so badly on this dimension, especially because I feel I am most powerful there. I can forgive my lower dimensional selves for this because I was scared and insecure. But I do feel the need to make it up to him from a 5D perspective. He is not doing so well now though and might not be open to it on a psychic level. I did sent him a letter once, expressing my unconditional love despite of whatever had happened. It took him months to respond and all he could say in the end was that he was caught of guard and blown away. Any ideas on how I can reach him? Or how I can sent positive energy towards him without forcing it upon him or threathening him by it because he cannot except it at this point?"

Regarding the discerning of the dimensions, do you agree with the information on this site: http://www.peaceinpractice.iinet.net...sciousness.htm

Or do you prefer another one where I can go for a quick overview? Sometimes I am a bit lazy and short in time But like I said, I will thoroughly read the whole thread!

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by Malerogro (here)
Regarding the discerning of the dimensions, do you agree with the information on this site: http://www.peaceinpractice.iinet.net...sciousness.htm

Or do you prefer another one where I can go for a quick overview? Sometimes I am a bit lazy and short in time But like I said, I will thoroughly read the whole thread!

No, all those “dimensions” are just dimensions of form, I’m afraid. The formless worlds are much higher than any of those. All the major meditation traditions speak in detail of the formless worlds, as does, for example, Buhlmann, and then, way higher than the formless worlds again, we have the universal or divine worlds.

I’ve already gone into this in some detail in posts #198 and #55, among others. In some other posts I’ve tried to explain various facets of how this works. This is based on my own direct experience of different dimensions, not on some mathematician's false assumptions.

I do happen to have an honors degree in mathematics and a postgrad degree in philosophy. Sorry, but I’m horrified by how dumbed down or ignorant it seems to me certain individuals are who “profess” to tell us that the “dimensions” used in some mathematics and some physics have anything at all in common with the spiritual “dimensions”.

So many questions in the last day that I'd like to respond to. It's great to see people being so real about developing their consciousness further.

[kintun]

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)

Posted by kintun (here)
Until about 3 years ago, I always thought that I had a very clear or smart consciousness, though I never questioned myself how it was possible that I could "see" dead people, or histories attached to objects. I just thought I was kind of fast picking up details or information that was delivere. by others in the conversation.
Well, I decided to get into it, and had a couple of teachers that showed me how to use this "ability". But, until now, I never understood how could I be awake and writing and at the same time, "be" in another place, completely aware, with all my senses and conscious. I guess it is possible. If it is so, then I suppose I wander between D's daily.....which could be a good explanation for the way I receive detailed information about others.

After a while, with enough experience, it becomes "normal" to sometimes see a number of or many different dimensions at the same time. All the other dimensions are right here, full of life that people don't usually see going on. This is why creative geniuses can tap into the most extraordinary perceptions.

... lately I have been visited by different people who are "teaching me" all sort of things. Unfortunately, I have brief memories of books, subjects, but thats it. I'm sure my subtle bodies have taken the lessons, but I can't remember them
Love to all,

I'm sure you are learning the lessons on more subtle planes, kintun. That happened to me also for a number of years. At first, though, I found that life in the 3D world seemed tougher for me. This was because it seemed so ridiculous and limited compared to what I knew was possible. Also, I initially didn't know how to communicate much about what I was experiencing to others. But eventually, I consider it's a matter of achieving the "descent" of the treasures from more subtle worlds more and more into the 3D world, and making a difference in the lives of the people around you -- not necessarily at some "spiritual" level either, but as a friend or parent or co-worker and so on, and also just creating improvements or helpful ways of behaving or getting things done, often just at a "small is beautiful" grass roots level. Or just having the detachment to "keep your head while everyone around you is losing theirs."

Thank you very much for you reply, Traneehuman. It's been very comforting to learn about these worlds in your posts and get to understand a bit more about them.
I feel very identified with your words. I feel our job here is humble, "small" and usually one person at a time. More than a leader, I picture my job as a companion, somebody who walks along with the other person, through some stages in their life. And here we can talk about detachment, as you mentioned before. Sometimes you help somebody with their problems, and they refer to you as "their best friend", and you honestly don't feel anything for them but gratitude for being helpful. And they say you are detached. My friends like to bother me with, what they call, my extreme detachment. They say I'm a special case
But I think this comes from understanding that we are all really ONE, and that we interact even if we don't see each other. I believe we are all connected somehow and in different degrees, and that makes me feel always good. I believe that if I help somebody, I am helping myself and everybody else too...So, instead of missing someone, I just feel I am with them and my heart feels full of love and gratitude for meeting them, and for the moments shared...
Well, sorry I got too reflexive here,
I am really happy that I have the chance to share these things with people that believe and care.
Love to all

[ghostrider]

Posted by Malerogro (here)
Hi everyone! Thanks so much to all the posters on the thread for sharing their experiences and knowledge. I am relatively new in becoming aware of the dimensions. Dan33 recognized me in another thread as operating out of 5D so that inspired me to delve more deeply into the subject. I do feel particularly at home in the 5th dimension but I have the feeling I skip the fourth in my awareness, or maybe I move through it very quickly without noticing. Any reasons I might be afraid of staying in the fourth or become aware of what is happening there? Do you think it is necessary for me to do so?
I feel like I am wavering sometimes between the third and the fith dimension and to be honoust, that is starting to wear me down. Maybe I can find some more steadfastness (a term Fred Steeves mentioned which stayed with me) when I become more aware of what is happening in the fourth?
This thread provides a lot of exercizes to explore the fourth dimension yet I still feel a reservation to try. Any tips or explanations? Thanks!
Btw, I have not practiced meditation so much yet and have not eperienced full OBE's although I can feel myself moving towards one sometimes. Also when I have been experiencing and operating out of the fifth I need sometime to get my coördination right again in the third dimension. When I get up I stumble or I drop something.
Do you think that meditation and OBE's are necessary roads to take to become aware of the fourth dimensions or are there ways to recognize the fourth dimension more in daily life without resorting to OBE's or meditation?

here is what I did, take a candle , and set it three feet away from you, get comfortable and look at the spot where the flame meets the edge of the candle... say in your mind one world. Sun ... don't let any other thoughts enter your mind. No distractions, no phone, no sound, try for five minutes... one word ... Sun ... Sun ... then put some light weight sleeping attire on and make sure the room is dark , and no heavy covers, say in your mind just as you start to get sleepy , When my body goes to sleep my mind will stay awake... you may hear a buzzing sound , dont worry , and your heart rate may increase , don't worry it's normal... be love, be free, be peaceful and loving to earth, humans , animals everything... be love ... close your eyes and notice the shapes of energy behind your eyelids, let them unfold as they do, pulses of energy will roll from small to large right at you , with a warm sensation, all the while your focus, just like the candle exercise, is when my body goes to sleep my mind will stay awake ... you will see your bedroom with your eyes closed , traveling from there is a personal journey , this just gets you in the doorway to OBE... you can return to your body just by thinking about it ... this is how I do it ... listening to some nature sounds with headphones on just prior to bedtime will help relax you and tune the world out ...sounds like waves, or harps, the main thing is teaching your mind to be quiet and peaceful and control your thoughts, it will change you when you realize you can leave your body every night and travel anywhere ... happy travels ...

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by seeker1972 (here)
I do have a couple questions for you. The first is about whether or not you are still open to laying one of those psychic healings on me sometime, if the opportunity ever comes up. It sounds like it could be a great help to a fledgling.

I'll try to do something helpful for you in the next week.

Also, this quote of yours has me pretty curious: "Even a simple practice such as fasting, for instance, can lead to insanity quite quickly if carried out with a lack of detailed knowledge of how to manage it." Care to spend a post on that one? :-)

It so happens that a considerable portion of the individuals who used to be locked up in psychiatric hospitals in my city over quite a few years had frequently practiced fasting. In one sense that’s all I know.

There is a substantial amount of material on effective – and I assume/hope safe -- fasting in the Forum, mainly in the Alternative Medicine & Sciences sub-forum. Maybe you would do better to discuss fasting with someone on the Forum who’s really expert at it, Joe.
But as far as I'm cocnerned, it seems to involve some degree of abuse of one’s own body. And in the world of applied psychology, it has become progressively evident over a number of decades that abuse of any kind is psychologically far more harmful than had been believed in the past.

The reason I ask is because I'm making an effort to raise my energy levels using some of the things I've learned. Like ditching meat, caffeine, and alcohol. I'm doing some more meditating again in my copper pyramid to get the energy flowing; get the chakras spinning. Practicing some grounding techniques and such. I created my pyramid a couple months ago and ever since I tried it out the first week, my forehead has been buzzing, as if to say, "Hey, you started this, don't stop now." But I've been kinda timid about what I might experience and that may have kept me from diving in wholeheartedly. Thanks to this thread, and a couple of major dreams last night, I'm more ... secure about the way I feel about it all now.

Sounds great. I'll respond to your other question shortly.

... Much love to all here, and I hope to see you out there some day!

[misfit312]

Well I just had an interesting experience maybe you can help me with what it was..My whole life I have been an interesting dreamer,I had lucid dreams before I knew what they were called, have had dreams where I fly,dreams where I am fighting with a evil unseen spirit (defeated "him" and he's never returned) dreams that I am someone else changing dimensions and timelines. As far as meditation I was doing Chakra meditation and had what I believe was a Kundalini Awakening about a month and a half ago...Anyway, you get the idea I have never had an OOBE or anything like it til today.

Ok so I was trying to take a nap today but it was unusual I swear I was awake, but all of the sudden I heard the strangest moan and after wondering where it came from I realized it was me..I though that's weird I swear I was awake.Then a little while later I heard snoring and again I realized it was me again even though I swear my eyes were open.I seen the whole room all bright and as far as visual changes nothing made me feel asleep..So again I try to go to sleep only to open my eyes and find my dog looking at me all weird like I did something..Hmmm ok so 1 last time am determined to try to sleep...That when it changes..

I am asleep at last and I start dreaming I am on my bed same time of day only instead of trying to nap I decide to meditate..Then I start to feel my whole body vibrate and all this energy focused in my hands.I tell myself to try to let go and relax and not over focus on the feelings..The scene changes and I am on my bed lying down and its night and I sit up but it feels different so I turn and look and I still see that I am lying down(but I didnt see my face it was covered by my hair)..I think ooh I must be having an OOBE so I raise my hands and wiggle them in front of my face and I can see through them..Then instead of getting up I start floating up I have every intention of seeing whats going on up not down on the ground..As I begin to travel up the room and everything goes dark and foggy and I cant see anything for a short period then I stop..I see a man sitting at a desk in the distance but only he is not "there" It was like I was looking through an extremely foggy window with just a small clear part in the middle and he was on the other side (only there was no glass) and so I just stare at him and I think this guy has been watching me but it does not feel evil or anything..He finally see's me and tries to ignore me but then he looks at me and goes "What do You want?" I answer "Come and find me." (!!!!) He gets agitated and after a while says "I'll see what I can do"

Next I feel myself going back to my body, then I wake up...

So now I am a little upset.."come find me" seriously why would I say that?
Also I am sorry if I missed a previous question on this but....What does it mean to dream of an OOBE? How is it different from an actual one as far as physical body feelings and such?

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by misfit312 (here)
Well I just had an interesting experience maybe you can help me with what it was..My whole life I have been an interesting dreamer,I had lucid dreams before I knew what they were called, have had dreams where I fly,dreams where I am fighting with a evil unseen spirit (defeated "him" and he's never returned) dreams that I am someone else changing dimensions and timelines. As far as meditation I was doing Chakra meditation and had what I believe was a Kundalini Awakening about a month and a half ago...Anyway, you get the idea I have never had an OOBE or anything like it til today.

Ok so I was trying to take a nap today but it was unusual I swear I was awake, but all of the sudden I heard the strangest moan and after wondering where it came from I realized it was me..I though that's weird I swear I was awake.Then a little while later I heard snoring and again I realized it was me again even though I swear my eyes were open.I seen the whole room all bright and as far as visual changes nothing made me feel asleep..So again I try to go to sleep only to open my eyes and find my dog looking at me all weird like I did something..Hmmm ok so 1 last time am determined to try to sleep...That when it changes..

I am asleep at last and I start dreaming I am on my bed same time of day only instead of trying to nap I decide to meditate..Then I start to feel my whole body vibrate and all this energy focused in my hands.I tell myself to try to let go and relax and not over focus on the feelings..The scene changes and I am on my bed lying down and its night and I sit up but it feels different so I turn and look and I still see that I am lying down(but I didnt see my face it was covered by my hair)..I think ooh I must be having an OOBE so I raise my hands and wiggle them in front of my face and I can see through them..Then instead of getting up I start floating up I have every intention of seeing whats going on up not down on the ground..As I begin to travel up the room and everything goes dark and foggy and I cant see anything for a short period then I stop..I see a man sitting at a desk in the distance but only he is not "there" It was like I was looking through an extremely foggy window with just a small clear part in the middle and he was on the other side (only there was no glass) and so I just stare at him and I think this guy has been watching me but it does not feel evil or anything..He finally see's me and tries to ignore me but then he looks at me and goes "What do You want?" I answer "Come and find me." (!!!!) He gets agitated and after a while says "I'll see what I can do"

Next I feel myself going back to my body, then I wake up...

So now I am a little upset.."come find me" seriously why would I say that?
Also I am sorry if I missed a previous question on this but....What does it mean to dream of an OOBE? How is it different from an actual one as far as physical body feelings and such?

Regarding your successfully meditating from an OB state, may I make the following observation, so please bear with me.

When we meditate while (initially) in our 3D bodies, as I’ve said we initially need to concentrate. And to concentrate effectively we initially need to fulfil certain necessary or desirable conditions. An example of a desirable condition, for most forms of meditation, is holding your body still. We also initially need to concentrate against the obstacles to concentration itself, such as restlessness, wandering of the mind, impatience, and so on. These obstacles are all usually linked in some way to physical impulses inside us.

In addition to concentrating well, we of course need to separate from the stream of thinking that keeps going on in our mind. This stream of thinking is also actually quite physical, and mechanical, and pretty lifeless.

But to meditate successfully starting from 4D, we need to initially concentrate – and hence kind of hold ourselves still -- in 4D. That’s a more subtle skill. Indeed, if you can hold your ego emotions still so totally, that means you’ve mastered them. Roughly speaking, mastery of anything = the ability to hold it still.

I think your consciousness is probably trying to tell you that – that you’re not so far from liberation from the great wheel of reincarnating in the physical world. Sounds great!

Now to your other questions. It seems to be the case that for anyone who is a beginner at OBEs, the difference between a “lucid” dream and an OBE is so tiny that the person may as well just keep exploring lucid dreaming, and that will give them experiences of what initially happens in an OBE anyway. “Dreaming that you have an OBE”? Sounds to me like both of the above, and probably more.

Also, I would say the reason you said: “Come and find me” to some benevolent being from a higher dimension (which is what the “foggy window” means) was because inside you you know that you deserve help from such a being and you’re ready to develop yourself further. I would try to contact that being again, any way you can.

[Shamz]

Hello Guys,

First I'd like to say big thank you to TraineeHuman for starting this thread. I personally have learnt so much and still doing it from this thread and i am pretty sure we all feel the same way. It is more than just a thread for OOBE, TH have covered so many things that can take us to next level. We just have to be honest and sincere - not with the world out there but to ourself.

I have never had fully conscious OOBE but I have always had this dream of flying - most of the time it is as if I just do long jump and keeps on floating just above the ground - every time I say to myself ( while in dream ) " oh wow I can do this, I can keep floating as long as I want". The feeling is un-believable and unlike anything. Many times my whole body would be humming with this electrical energy - even after I am fully awake.

1-2 times I have this incredible feeling of joy going through my body - I can't recall what I was dreaming - but this feeling is just too wonderful - too joyous even to be put in words. I have always longed for this feeling whenever I go to bed. I have no memory of meeting any Guardian Angel or my HigherSelf.

Ever since I was little, I have experienced sleep paralysis. Wherein I am fully conscious inside but my body is complete paralyzed, can't move my arms, legs and even my tongue is twisted to speak anything or shout. My sisters and parents also have this sleep paralysis and they have no idea what causes this. All they told was that when this happens just pray to one of our Gods and He will take care of this - since they believe that it is some bad energy or entity that is trying to get hold of our body. I remember the feeling where I feel being trapped in a box when that sleep paralysis happens. But now I came to know that this is related to OOBE, which we don't rem after we get back. TH mentioned that it is because the entrance to the body is not properly aligned hence we feel this paralysis. Not sure how I tell my parents and siblings about this - they will think I am Nuts - haha.

Now I started reading about this astral travel and OOBE only lasy year. Loved SirDipSwitch's and AnotherBob's thread here on PA. Read both Buhlman's books and lot of other videos and material. I started practicing the methods and couple of times I came very close to having an OOBE. I had very lucid dreams 3-4 times. Each dream was more lucid than the other - I had vivid feeling of flying...giving commands as buhlman suggested, me calling "goto my HS" repeatedly.
I will keep trying until I have fully conscious OOBE.

One method that I particularly found very effective and by which I had 3-4 lucid dream was to sleep for atleast 4-5 hours - wake up and do some activity for 5-10 mins and then again go back to sleep. Then keep repeating your affirmations and eventually you will feel the vibrations coming when you are on the verge of sleeping and being awake. I tried for couple of days before I began to feel the vibrations.

I am not trying that hard these days to get out of body - but I am committed from inside and I know my HS and GAs will surely help me achieve this one day or the other. I know they help me a lot in whatever I ask them - of course simple everyday things and not winning a jackpot

Hope to share many more experiences with you guys. You all rock on this Great Rock.


Peace and love to you all