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    Default Re: Hugo Chavez Dead

    Quote Posted by guayabal (here)
    I'm glad he is dead... yes, it sounds terrible but I do. This man gave shelter in Venezuela to head militants of the guerrilla group FARC. The FARC is a colombian guerrilla group of narcotraffickers and kidnappers.


    why do u care what othr adults put in their own body?

    also in your last sentence u could replace farc with cia and columbian with usa and it would be the same.......do u also wish death on cia workers/members?

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    Default Re: Hugo Chavez Dead

    Quote Posted by guayabal (here)
    I'm glad he is dead... yes, it sounds terrible but I do. This man gave shelter in Venezuela to head militants of the guerrilla group FARC. The FARC is a colombian guerrilla group of narcotraffickers and kidnappers.
    chavez opened the eyes to a lot of people to what is going on in the world, besides the mainstream news thats how i review him


    but dont forget he was a person of great power, the first man in his country this coin of power usualy doesnt come in your hands for free ... but compared to many others in equal positions on this planet he didnt sold his country.

    but i also dont think he was a holy man either, or as he said "HOMBRE HUMANO"
    just my opinion

    so i say thank you hugo chavez for chosing a different path than most of the world leaders have chosen and at last awaking some people

    who knows maybe he will come back
    Last edited by seehas; 5th March 2013 at 23:36.
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    Default Re: Hugo Chavez Dead

    Quote Posted by robinr1 (here)
    Quote Posted by guayabal (here)
    I'm glad he is dead... yes, it sounds terrible but I do. This man gave shelter in Venezuela to head militants of the guerrilla group FARC. The FARC is a colombian guerrilla group of narcotraffickers and kidnappers.


    why do u care what othr adults put in their own body?

    also in your last sentence u could replace farc with cia and columbian with usa and it would be the same.......do u also wish death on cia workers/members?
    this i did not know. Is that the same group FARC that equator and Bolivia are caught with and that Ecuador finally kind of got rid of?

    FARC were really terrible, and completeley working with the CIA to export the drugs. Interesting, good guys may not be where we think.

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    Avalon Member guayabal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hugo Chavez Dead

    Quote Posted by robinr1 (here)
    Quote Posted by guayabal (here)
    I'm glad he is dead... yes, it sounds terrible but I do. This man gave shelter in Venezuela to head militants of the guerrilla group FARC. The FARC is a colombian guerrilla group of narcotraffickers and kidnappers.
    why do u care what othr adults put in their own body?
    I am personally affected by the FARC , I live in Colombia, here it is impossible not to care about "those adults".

    Quote also in your last sentence u could replace farc with cia and columbian with usa and it would be the same.......do u also wish death on cia workers/members?
    You could also say that I could blame the devil... but is not the same, is it?

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    Default Re: Hugo Chavez Dead

    Quote Posted by Wind (here)
    The dictators are dropping like flies.
    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Quote Posted by robinr1 (here)
    Quote Posted by guayabal (here)
    I'm glad he is dead... yes, it sounds terrible but I do. This man gave shelter in Venezuela to head militants of the guerrilla group FARC. The FARC is a colombian guerrilla group of narcotraffickers and kidnappers.


    why do u care what othr adults put in their own body?

    also in your last sentence u could replace farc with cia and columbian with usa and it would be the same.......do u also wish death on cia workers/members?
    this i did not know. Is that the same group FARC that equator and Bolivia are caught with and that Ecuador finally kind of got rid of?

    FARC were really terrible, and completeley working with the CIA to export the drugs. Interesting, good guys may not be where we think.
    Hey Flash,

    People should do their homework before labeling everyone on FARC as terrorists and narcotraffickers.

    The FARC were born as a legitimate anti-imperialistic movement, inspired by Bolivarianism.

    They were mostly against:

    -the economic depredations of the ruling bourgeoisie;
    -the political influence of the U.S. in the internal affairs of Colombia (i.e. Plan Colombia);
    -neo-imperialism;
    -the monopolization of natural resources by multinational corporations and
    -the repressive violence from Colombian state and paramilitary forces against the civilian population.

    They were flawed, like all left wing revolutionary movements, but they were just trying to take back the sovereignty of their country, which was completely sold out to the USA; probably it still is, like most part of South-America.

    Then, as usual, the CIA infiltrated the group, using their usual techniques such as bribing and offering amazing "business opportunities", if you know what I mean. Only then, the FARC got involved in the drug business, sponsored by the CIA.

    Nowadays, they are just CIA dogs, but there are still legit revolutionary leaders willing to take back the movement.

    To sum up, the FARC as we know it nowadays, is CIA.

    PS: Read more about it here, if you´re interested to know a bit about South-American history.
    Last edited by RMorgan; 5th March 2013 at 23:56.

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    Default Re: Hugo Chavez Dead

    Quote Posted by robinr1 (here)
    Quote Posted by guayabal (here)
    I'm glad he is dead... yes, it sounds terrible but I do. This man gave shelter in Venezuela to head militants of the guerrilla group FARC. The FARC is a colombian guerrilla group of narcotraffickers and kidnappers.


    why do u care what othr adults put in their own body?

    also in your last sentence u could replace farc with cia and columbian with usa and it would be the same.......do u also wish death on cia workers/members?
    you are definitely not aware of what the CIA did in Columbia and how the drug market controlled by the FARC was in fact controlled by the CIA. I did not see Guayabal writing he was wishing death of the CIA workers, you are going way too far. But yes, CIA was instrumental in most South American countries for destrucion, supporting dictators, and making sure the drug market is florishing.

    I have also met come Columbians whose life were destroyed by the FARC, their whole town destroyed because the people would not want to give in, or yet, fathers sleeping with their guns to make sure their daughters are not kidnap to become sex slaves or their sun to become "combattants".

    I also know personnally some Canadians who were kidnapped by the FARC for ransom. Believe it or not, the company who had sent them was a tiny company who did not have the millions requested for it two men. The company had to do public campaign to collect money cause its president could not live with letting his employee die. He went bancrupt afterward. This is what the FARC does, still. THe bottom of the barrel of crooks, killers, kidnapers and drug traders, linked to CIA.

    Robin, read history and more than once.

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    Default Re: Hugo Chavez Dead

    It's easy to talk about someone when you don't really know what that person is all about. He was bad news for the region in general.
    Last edited by Camilo; 5th March 2013 at 23:57.

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    Default Re: Hugo Chavez Dead

    Quote Posted by RMorgan (here)
    Quote Posted by Wind (here)
    The dictators are dropping like flies.
    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Quote Posted by robinr1 (here)
    Quote Posted by guayabal (here)
    I'm glad he is dead... yes, it sounds terrible but I do. This man gave shelter in Venezuela to head militants of the guerrilla group FARC. The FARC is a colombian guerrilla group of narcotraffickers and kidnappers.

    why do u care what othr adults put in their own body?

    also in your last sentence u could replace farc with cia and columbian with usa and it would be the same.......do u also wish death on cia workers/members?
    this i did not know. Is that the same group FARC that equator and Bolivia are caught with and that Ecuador finally kind of got rid of?

    FARC were really terrible, and completeley working with the CIA to export the drugs. Interesting, good guys may not be where we think.
    Hey Flash,

    People should do their homework before labeling everyone on FARC as terrorists and narcotraffickers.

    The FARC were born as a legitimate anti-imperialistic movement, inspired by Bolivarianism.

    They were mostly against:

    -the economic depredations of the ruling bourgeoisie;
    -the political influence of the U.S. in the internal affairs of Colombia (i.e. Plan Colombia);
    -neo-imperialism;
    -the monopolization of natural resources by multinational corporations and
    -the repressive violence from Colombian state and paramilitary forces against the civilian population.

    Then, as usual, the CIA infiltrated the group, using their usual techniques such as bribing and amazing "business opportunities", if you know what I mean. Only then, the FARC got involved in the drug business, sponsored by the CIA.

    Nowadays, they are just CIA dogs, but there are still legit revolutionary leader willing to take back the movement.
    Completely agree with all of this. In terms of history. Malheureusement, this is the last part of your statements that have been going on for 30 years. And it is not getting better. Yes they were originally infiltrated, but CIA rabbie has completely contaminated them. If you would know how they treat their prisoners, and God please, don't let them be women.

    I should add that the same infiltration happened throughout South America, everywhere, and often throughout the world.

    We may as well plead that it is cocaine, the drug they are ingesting, that makes them behave like animals. In this case, lets plead against personal responsiblities.

    As for Chavez, if his people liked him and if he was half decent, fine (at this level, half decent is already a lot).

    Sincerely, knowing that Chavez protected the FARC makes him go down, roll down, in my esteem.
    Last edited by Flash; 5th March 2013 at 23:59.

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    Default Re: Hugo Chavez Dead

    FARC are the worst terrorist narco trafficker cartel on the planet.

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    Default Re: Hugo Chavez Dead

    Call me the ultimate conspriacy nut, the pope resigns, billionaire's selling stocks, chavez dead or off to his underground bunker, no clone for him I guess, the gun grab, ... somethings afoot ...and notice people in power know about it ... chavez did mention things about weather weapons being used against his country ...
    Raiding the Matrix One Mind at a Time ...

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    Default Re: Hugo Chavez Dead

    Sorry Camilo, you may be wrong. FARC is amongst the worst terrorist narco traficants in the world. Probably at par with the Afghan guerilla, Vietnamese drug trafickers and some African organisations.

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    Default Re: Hugo Chavez Dead

    Quote Posted by Camilo (here)
    FARC are the worst terrorist narco trafficker cartel on the planet.
    I´d say that the Government of Colombia, backed up by the CIA (who plays both sides, as usual) is one of the worse narcotrafficker groups on the planet and they use the FARC as their escape goat, to make their "war on drugs" look legitimate.

    Since the 60s, the U.S. government had spent $3 billion in Colombia, more than 75% of it on "military aid". Before the Iraq war, Colombia was the third largest recipient of US aid only after Egypt and Israel. Now, I don´t even need to tell you what´s the reason behind their multi-billionaire investment.

    We´re talking only about official numbers here; These numbers are nothing. The US spends 3 billion to finance the "war on drugs" and then the CIA invests ten times more to finance the drug cartel.

    Anyway, remember that the FARC was born from PCC, about ten years after the liberal civil war, where hundreds of thousands of innocent people died, leading to the birth of the "Frente Nacional" which was basically a dictatorship disguised as democracy, pretty much like the USA.

    Quote In 1948, in the aftermath of the assassination of the populist politician Jorge Eliécer Gaitán, there occurred a decade of large-scale political violence throughout Colombia, which was a Conservative – Liberal civil war that killed more than 300,000 people. In Colombian history and culture, the killings are known as La Violencia (The Violence, 1948–58); most of the people killed were peasants and laborers in rural Colombia. In 1957-1958, the political leadership of the Liberal Party and the Conservative Party agreed to establish a bipartisan political system known as the National Front (Frente Nacional, 1958–74). The Liberal and the Conservative parties agreed to alternate in the exercise of government power by presenting a joint National Front candidate to each election and restricting the participation of other political movements. The pact was ratified as a constitutional amendment by a national plebiscite on 1 December 1957 and was supported by the Roman Catholic Church as well as Colombia’s business leaders. The initial power-sharing agreement was effective until 1974; nonetheless, with modifications, the Liberal–Conservative bipartisan system lasted until 1990.The sixteen-year extension of the bipartisan power-sharing agreement permitted the Liberal and Conservative élites to consolidate their socioeconomic control of Colombian society, and to strengthen the military to suppress political reform and radical politics proposing alternative forms of government for Colombia.
    During the 1960s, the Colombian government effected a policy of Accelerated Economic Development (AED), the agribusiness plan of Lauchlin Currie, a Canadian-born U.S.economist who owned ranching land in Colombia. The plan promoted industrial farming that would produce great yields of agricultural and animal products for world-wide exportation, while the Colombian government would provide subsidies to large-scale private farms. The AED policy came at the expense of the small-scale family farms that only yielded food supplies for local consumption. Based on a legalistic interpretation of what constituted “efficient use” of the land, thousands of peasants were forcefully evicted from their farms and migrated to the cities, where they became part of the industrial labor pool. In 1961, the dispossession of farmland had produced 40,000 landless families and by 1969 their numbers amounted to 400,000 throughout Colombia. By 1970, the latifundio type of industrial farm (more than 50 hectares in area) occupied more than 77 per cent of arable land in the country. The AED policy increased the concentration of land ownership among cattle ranchers and urban industrialists, whose businesses expanded their profits as a result of reductions in the cost of labor wages after the influx of thousands of displaced peasants into the cities. During this period, most rural workers lacked basic medical care and malnutrition was almost universal, which increased the rates of preventable disease and infant mortality.

    Communists were active throughout rural and urban Colombia in the period immediately following World War I. The Colombian Communist Party (Partido Comunista Colombiano, PCC) was formally accredited by the Comintern in 1930. The PCC began establishing "peasant leagues" in rural areas and "popular fronts" in urban areas, calling for improved living and working conditions, education, and rights for the working class. These groups began networking together to present a defensive front against the state-supported violence of large landholders. Members organized strikes, protests, seizures of land, and organized communist-controlled "self-defense communities" in southern Colombia that were able to resist state military forces, while providing for the subsistence needs of the populace.Many of the PCC's attempts at organizing peasants, were met with violent repression by the Colombian government, and landowning class.U.S. military intelligence estimated that in 1962, the size of the PCC had grown to 8,000 to 10,000 active members, and an additional 28,000 supporters.
    In 1961, a guerrilla leader and long-time PCC organizer named Manuel Marulanda Vélez declared an independent "Republic of Marquetalia". The Lleras government attempted unsuccessfully to attack the communities to drive out the guerrillas, due to fears that "a Cuban-style revolutionary situation might develop". After the failed attacks, several army outposts were set up in the area.

    In October 1959, the United States sent a "Special Survey Team" composed of counterinsurgency experts to investigate Colombia's internal security situation. Among other policy recommendations the US team advised that "in order to shield the interests of both Colombian and US authorities against 'interventionist' charges any special aid given for internal security was to be sterile and covert in nature." In February 1962, three years after the 1959 "US Special Survey Team", a Fort Bragg top-level U.S. Special Warfare team headed by Special Warfare Center commander General William P. Yarborough, visited Colombia for a second survey.
    In a secret supplement to his report to the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Yarborough encouraged the creation and deployment of a US-backed paramilitary force to commit "paramilitary, sabotage and/or terrorist activities against known communist proponents".
    The new counter-insurgency policy was instituted as Plan Lazo in 1962 and called for both military operations and civic action programs in violent areas. Following Yarborough's recommendations, the Colombian military recruited civilians into paramilitary "civil defense" groups which worked alongside the military in its counter-insurgency campaign, as well as in civilian intelligence networks to gather information on guerrilla activity.Doug Stokes argues that it was not until the early part of the 1980s that the Colombian government attempted to move away from the counterinsurgency strategy represented by Plan Lazo and Yarborough's 1962 recommendations.
    The Colombian government began attacking many of the communist groups in the early 1960s, attempting to re-assimilate the territories under the control of the national government. FARC was formed in 1964 by Manuel Marulanda Vélez and other PCC members, after a military attack on the community of Marquetalia. 16,000 Colombian troops attacked the community, which only had 48 armed fighters. Marulanda and 47 others fought against government forces at Marquetalia, and then escaped into the mountains along with the other fighters. These 48 men formed the core of FARC, which quickly grew in size to hundreds of fighters.
    source

    Man, if this isn´t a noble cause, then I don´t know what it is. Unfortunately the CIA managed to corrupt the whole group, but before that, they were fighting against tyranny and foreign domination.

    So yes, the FARC was a very legit movement for a very long time and was corrupted later on by the CIA, backed up by the Colombian government. They started to get involved with the drug business only in the 80s/90s. They were seduced by the drug money and its potential to fortify their campaigns, losing their legitimacy and autonomy in the process.

    Anyway, I don´t disagree with you. Are the FARC a terrible terrorist group nowadays? Yes, they are. They are just as bad as the CIA.

    Were the FARC always a bad terrorist narcotrafficker group? No. Absolutely not.

    Sorry if it´s a bit off-topic folks...Just a piece of history for your consideration.

    Raf.
    Last edited by RMorgan; 6th March 2013 at 01:47.

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    Default Re: Hugo Chavez Dead

    May Hugo Chavez rest in peace. For sure he was nowhere perfect, but i,ve always respected him for his courage to stand up against U.S. pressures.
    It saddens me the news.

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    Default Re: Hugo Chavez Dead

    Camilo,

    The man is dead. He was a leader to many, and a good one to the vast majority in his own country.

    I believe you are completely wrong about your statement regarding the Venezuelan government. To many south Americans there are two mayor evil (CIA) operated countries in the region, Chile (my own country) and Colombia, im not including Mexico here. So if you claim that Venezuela is bad, then please explain what Colombia is?

    Colombia has been the headquarters of the CIA, and the US army for about 30 years in South America. Colombia is together with my own Chile the only counties that do the biding of the empire (using Chavez own words), to promote conflict in countries that oppose to some degree the will of the evil empire.

    To some extend reading what you write is like reading CNN. This is no offense its what it looks to me from far away.

    Please read more history as suggested by RMorgan.
    Always in love even if its hard,

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    Default Re: Hugo Chavez Dead

    Chavez gave shelter to kidnappers and drug traffickers (while they were still doing their handiwork in Colombia and everywhere else), that is a fact. You can give him a "rest in peace" if you like, but be well aware of that.
    Last edited by guayabal; 6th March 2013 at 12:57. Reason: grammar

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    Default Re: Hugo Chavez Dead

    Chavez fostered his own type of corruption and ushered in a more violent Venezuela. But then again, can't that be said of most world leaders? The reason he is vilified in the U.S. is not because of his cronyism and tyranny, but because isn't the type of tyranny that benefited multinational corporations in the U.S. and Europe, and so they had their lapdog, the media, attack him.

    Hugo, you were a tyrant, but we have to pause and admire you, because you were a thorn in the side to some even bigger tyrants.

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    Default Re: Hugo Chavez Dead

    I shall mourn the passing of a leader.
    A man who was loved by the poor and hated by the rich.
    A man who fought against the monopolisation/corporatisation of his country and set the benchmark for Latin American leaders.
    A man whose government:
    • Reduced extreme poverty in his country from 40% to 7%.
    • Reduced poverty from 70% to 21%.
    • Increased social spending by $770 Billion US in the last 6 years.
    • Free education from day-care to University (and has built 10 Universities).
    • Eliminated illiteracy (how important was that just by itself!).
    • Now 96% of the population has access to clean water.
    • Reduced food imports from 90% to 30%, while increasing farm production, resulting in increased food security.
    • Increased the number of health clinics by almost 170% since being elected (that's almost 14,000 in 13 years).
    • Reduced youth homelessness to virtually zero.
    • Created 30,000 grassroot councils that are active in providing feedback to the government (and the government acts on that feedback).
    The list goes on...

    Yeah, he was a horrible bloke.

    I shall mourn his passing.

    -- Pan
    "What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence.
    The only consequence is what we do."

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    Canada Avalon Member 161803398's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hugo Chavez Dead

    1.
    Quote The CIA or whatever agency certainly has secrete cancer inducing technology, probably some kind of poison.
    My understanding is that cancer (some types at least) is caused by a virus and that this was covered up because the polio vaccine used in America in the 50s and 60s had been grown in monkeys consequently containing the monkey virus SV40 which causes cancer. The vaccine was given to people in the early 60s even though it was known by then that it contained the cancer causing monkey virus. Further, there are those who believe that this virus, like aids, can be transmitted sexually and passed from mother to child. This is why we are told that cancer is not a virus.

    The further possibility is not only that it was given to people with knowledge that it was creating a risk of cancer but that people were, once again, used as guinea pigs in order to determine the effectiveness of their cancer causing weapon.

    This link contains some information about the SV40 although there is a great deal on the internet:

    http://www.naturalnews.com/032854_SV..._vaccines.html



    2. FARC: An internal memo, released on Wikileaks by an anonymous whistleblower, explains how the CIA has been using front organizations to channel money to the FARC. It seems that the "magic laptop", often used as evidence of Venezuelan support for the FARC, also listed Soluciones Integradas as a source of funding. The organization has been used as a CIA front in the past. When CIA agents realized this, an internal memo was circulated explaining the funding; it seems not everyone was aware of this shady covert action. The memo, from the fall of 2009 reads, "While the long-term goal of eliminating the FARC remains, it is in our short-term strategic interests to allow for a certain level of FARC activity." Although the laptops apparently revealed that the funding began in late 2005, the memo focuses on the importance of the funding for the future. Given that elections are upcoming in the fall, the memo notes that, "it is important that the democratic security policies of the current administration are continued." By financially supporting some FARC activity, it will provide the pretext for "ongoing military support." Finally, the memo writes, "The presence of a US-friendly government will act as a needed counter-weight to the dangerous rise of populism in the region."

    The manufacturing of fear to convince a population of certain policies is nothing new for the CIA, but the irony in the fact that the only "proof" of Venezuelan or Ecuadoran support for the FARC also proves US support is pretty astonishing. It is also interesting that the funding began in 2005, just as Colombia was gearing up for another Presidential election.

    Colombian officials are just beginning to respond to this revelation. Upon learning of the memo's existence, Uribe denied prior knowledge of the CIA's activities but refused to comment on whether this would have an impact on US-Colombian relations. "My government has no knowledge pointing to the authenticity of such a memo," Uribe stated, "and I urge the press to avoid jumping to conclusions."

    Chávez, for his part, hailed the memo as "another indictment against the corrupt and morally degenerate imperial policies of the yankees empire."

    "Although this type of covert operation would be expected from Mr. Danger," Chávez added, "I find it disappointing that such activities would continue under Obama."

    Earlier today, German Mundarain, Venezuela's ambassador to the United Nations, formally denounced the US before the international body and introduced a resolution to have the US designated as a terror-supporting state. "It is time the international community wakes up and sees the US for what it really is," Mundarain told the press, "this type of intervention in the affairs of sovereign states simply cannot continue to be tolerated."

    http://structurallymaladjusted.blogs...covert-us.html

    3. Dictators: we have been trained to react to the word "dictator" in somewhat the same way that Pavlov's dogs were trained to salivate.
    Last edited by 161803398; 6th March 2013 at 03:16.

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    Avalon Member sigma6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hugo Chavez Dead

    He was against the Anglo-American Satanic New World Order, and believed in National autonomy, that was enough for me.
    We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time
    By faith we understand things which are seen were not made of the things which are visible

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    Default Re: Hugo Chavez Dead

    Interview with Chavez and interesting recent history of Venezuela.

    https://youtube.com/watch?

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