Dimension of Scientology

[wegge]

Hello all. As some of you might know Bill was associated with some Scientology off shoot group.
I delved into Scientology the last few weeks and I really think it´s a rewarding practice. Here I want to give you some contact point if you want to further investigate this topic. Since there has been a lot of hullabaloo I think you have to look at this from a few different angles.


„In studying, be very, very certain you never go past a word you do not fully understand. The only reason a person gives up a study or becomes confused or unable to learn is that he has gone past a word or phrase that was not understood. If the material becomes confusing or you cannot seem to grasp it, there will be a word just earlier that you have not understood. Do not go any further! Go back to the place you were reading before you got into trouble, find the misunderstood word and get it defined.“

A good source for what lead to and caused the split in the official church that happened during the 70´s and early 80´s would be Bill and Kerry´s Interview with Dane Top´s : http://projectcamelot.org/dane_tops.html

In the aftermath of this split, off shoot groups like the freezone or Ron´s Org emerged. The Ron´s Org was founded by Captain Bill Robertson in Frankfurt Germany. On this website http://www.freezone.de/english/e_philo.htm
you find lots of talks by Robertson, how he developed Hubbards advanced material further.

Here you find pages of some oldschool freelancers: http://workabletechnology.com/
www.lifeenhance.org
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/

These guys are offering auditing per Skype: http://oditing.tora.ru/english.html

If you want to do something yourself you can use L. Ron Hubbards book „Self Analysis“
http://www.wosco.org/books/Psichology/Self_analysis.pdf

I currently read/work with a books of Ken Ogger a.k.a The Pilot. He´s a self appointed Reformator of Scientology who listened to two thirds of the talks given by LRH between 50´s and 70´s (roughly 3000hrs) and he claims that the actual teaching of Scientology incorporates only 10-20% of this Data given. You should know that he allegedly committed suicide and he seems to have been in some mental turmoil, nonetheless I think this book is helpful and good to work with.
You can download his self clear book from here amongst other maybe useful downloads:
http://freezoneearth.org/pilot/self/index.htm

Dianetics = a practice of discharging mental recordings of painful incidents (called engrams) to relieve the person of mental stress and aberrations.

Ron Hubbard (LRH) = the founder of Dianetics in the late 1940s (popularized in 1950) and subsequently of Scientology (1952).

Scientology = a study of the mind and spirit. It was originally addressed to solving the problem that tracing back chains of Dianetic engramic recordings continually yielded past life incidents instead of the prenatal incidents originally predicted by Dianetic theory.

thetan = a spiritual being, the person himself instead of his body.

clear = In theory, a person who has been cleared of his aberrations. In practice, a person who has run Dianetics sufficiently to cease reacting to or being effected by the pain in mental image pictures (engrams) or somebody who has achieved the same result by doing the Scientology clearing course.

This was the original goal of Dianetics.

auditor = one who listens. The Scientology term for a spiritual counselor. These are the practitioners of Scientology. The equivalent of a psychoanalyst except that they don't psychoanalyze, instead they run Scientology processes and listen to the person's answers

auditing = spiritual counseling. The action of running processes (enlightening questions) which will help the person find out more about himself. This includes both Dianetic engram running and Scientology processes

preclear (PC) = Somebody trying to become cleared of his aberrations. In practice, this is used to refer to anybody who is being audited even if they are "clear".

operating thetan (OT) = a person (thetan) who is capable of operating without a body. In practice, the term is used to refer to people who have been audited on the OT levels after achieving the state of clear even though the current OT levels have been designated as PreOT levels because they are only stepping stones towards a true achievement of the OT state.

"When in doubt, communicate".

I would be glad for input from scientology experienced and inexperienced members.

Kind regards

[kanishk]

'Handbook for preclears' is also similar kind of book as 'self analysis'. Do you have experience with these books?

If you are doing sessions from 'Timecops' http://oditing.tora.ru/english.html please share your experience.

[Hervé]

Hi wegge,

Regarding "The Pilot," A.K.A. Ken Ogger, see this post <--- and, also, see the discussion/comments on Mark Rathbun website starting here <---. What LRH made public in writing was the "safe" path to make it out of the nightmare, leaving out anything that would lead one into troubles.

[wegge]

Hey Amzer,

to me it seems the discussion revolves primary about accusation of plagiarism? He openly states in his books that Hubbard set the way.
This post of yours was what at first also let me steer clear of the Pilot but 1 or 2 weeks later the thought about it flashed up and I started reading the books. Through his book SuperScio I was for example made aware of Goal Problem Mass(GPM), that gave me great insights into contradicting behaviour. As I get it in Scientology this is reserved for some OT level because it could be too restimulating? My viewpoint is that many topics in this whole forum are also possibly restimulating, imagine yourself reading the first time something in the direction of "you have no ego, every desire is illusion, the whole sensual world is just a imagination".

Of course it would be better if you could work in tandem but it´s hard to find someone in physical proximity with the same interest in the subject.
A problem of tandem could be one forcing something incorrect down another´s throat.

[Hervé]

The issue of plagiarism comes as a counter-claim that Ken Ogger improved anything, just reworded the Tech.

Then there is the fact that he, himself, didn't manage to attain a state of clear with his method.

As for the tandem/twinning issue, that's where the whole setup of training and supervision come into play, as in: would one let a Joe sixpack fresh off the street fly a jet loaded with nuclear warheads without even flight simulations sessions nor an instructor behind him ready to correct flying mistakes?

[wegge]

Okay point taken, lets focus on the useful stuff, this I really liked playing around with you can alter the image in many ways or adding stuff,changing texture not just making copies and changing the color:

Automaticities

"The mind does many things on automatic.

The general rule for gaining control over something automatic is to exaggerate it, doing more of it consciously until it comes under your control, or to alternate doing it more and less. If you stutter, for example, you could make yourself stutter more than normal and then less than normal in alternate sentences until you get some control over it.

In this step, we are interested in gaining some control over various things that the mind is doing automatically.

Close your eyes. Notice what you are looking at. Sometimes people have mental pictures or after images. Sometimes there are splotches of "energy". Sometimes there is just blackness but there is an "intensity" to the blackness.

Whatever you "see" with your eyes closed, make a mental image copy of it, just like it but off to the side. This could be a screen with a copy of the image on it, or it could even be a three dimensional copy of the space that you are viewing. Just get whatever you can whether real or flimsy or even just the idea that you are projecting a copy.

Now make more copies. Make them to the right and to the left. Make them over your head and below it. Put some in back of you. Keep making copies until something dissolves or relaxes.

Now open your eyes. Notice things that you like about the room until you feel comfortable.

Close your eyes again. Notice what you are looking at and again make a mental image copy of it. This time, take the copy and start changing the colors around. If something is white, make it blue. If something is gray, make it orange, etc. Keep shifting the colors around until something dissolves or relaxes.

Open your eyes and look around, noticing things about the room.

Then do this a third time, making a few copies and putting various colors into the copies.

Experiment a bit with all three of these techniques, namely, making multiple copies, or changing colors, or a mixture of the two. Find out which one you are most comfortable with and do it a few more times.

All three of these methods can be used to handle a stuck mental picture or automatic and compulsive creation of mental imagery. This can be very useful if you run into trouble while fooling around with the mind. It gives you another safety net.

Learn this one well because it is the thing to do if you can't get some picture or worry out of your mind.

If, for example, you are worried that something is going to happen and you can't stop thinking about it, then visualize it and make many copies of the picture, changing its colors and altering it until you have control over it.

Note that worrying unnecessarily about something is a good way to attract it. And if you are worried about something real, this will increase your ability to face and handle it."

In regards of him not being clear you should still consider the possibility of mental warfare against him, if you look at the history of scientology (Dane tops) you see that there have been a lot things going on.

[wegge]

Posted by kanishk (here)
'Handbook for preclears' is also similar kind of book as 'self analysis'. Do you have experience with these books?

If you are doing sessions from 'Timecops' http://oditing.tora.ru/english.html please share your experience.

I don´t know about the "Handbook for preclears". I did some of the lists of self analysis it´s interesting and gives you a nice view about things but I really scratched just the surface.
Currently I´m not planning doing sessions from timecops I just wanted to include it here as a possibility for people.

[wegge]

Does anybody know if or were you can get the lectures for an reasonable prize or for free AND unaltered?

[wegge]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=X70wAshdTTI

found on this website: http://completeyourbridge.org/
they are also offering their auditing per skype

[Hervé]

Check this post <--- and thread: Civil War in the Church of Scientology..!


Edit:

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
[...]

There's a torrent download of original LRH materials (books, encyclopedic research volumes, and audio tapes) which is freely available here:

http://projectavalon.net/Library_of_...72.TPB.torrent

[kanishk]

Posted by wegge (here)
Does anybody know if or were you can get the lectures for an reasonable prize or for free AND unaltered?

For now this link is not working for me in India. I think there is more probability that it will work in Germany.
ftp://62.176.21.243/
user: 2013
pass: 2013
From Galac-Patra /Timecops.
I dont know but if you email timecops, he will give you some another link for downloading.

All the mp3 files can be automatically downloaded by using Filezilla FTP client or Globescape FTP client.

This was the recent most location they have updated. These link always crash after some time and these guys renew it time to time. When you use this link after 2-3 days it will not work and may be after 2 weeks it will start to work again.

There is another bunch of audio lections I have downloaded from link given in whyweprotest forum >> http://www.mediafire.com/?ndukyxqvr2v3b#myfiles. There is a possibility that some many of those mp3 are altered, therefore I use to open PDF transcripts from 'Complete Library of L Ron Hubbard texts from Free Zone'.

[wegge]

thanks kanishk, yes I think I will also stick to the transcipts at first.

[wegge]

Some quotes of LRH about Dreams:

"Dreams are crazy house mirrors by which the analyzer looks down into
the engram bank."

"Dreams are puns on words and situations in the engram bank."

"Dreams are not much help, being puns."

"Dreams are not much used in dianetics."

"You will hear dreams from patients. Patients are hard to shut off
when they start telling dreams. If you want to waste your time, you
will listen."
-from _Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health_, pgs. 296-297

***

"A frantic effort to orient, just to locate himself so that he can feel
secure, that's what a dream is and a dream of course is pretended knowingness
because he is at none of these places."(??)
-from Saint Hill Special Briefing Course tape 39, "Q & A - Anatomy and
Assessment of Goals", August 15, 1961

***

"Dreams are alter-ises of the things you can't not-is."
-from Saint Hill Special Briefing Course tape 122 "The Bad Auditor",
March 19, 1962

***

"Dreams follow a sudden loss. It's an effort to orient oneself and get
something back."
-from HCOB 29 March 1965 "All Levels ARC Breaks"


***

"A dream in its normal function is that powerful and original mechanism
called the imagination compositing or creating new pictures."
-from _Dianetics: The Original Thesis_, 1970 edition

what do you think about this? I think that at least you can get some insights from them on what to work on. And how about lucid dreaming?

[Bo Atkinson]

Posted by wegge (here)

[Excerpts on Dreams]

"Dreams are ........

"Dreams are ..........

"Dreams are not ........

"Dreams are not .......

"You will hear dreams from patients. .........
***

"........a dream of course is pretended knowingness............"



".......Dreams are alter-ises of the things you can't not-is."


"Dreams follow a sudden loss. It's an effort to orient oneself and get
something back."


"A dream in its normal function is that powerful and original mechanism
called the imagination compositing or creating new pictures."
...[End text quotes].....


what do you think about this? I think that at least you can get some insights from them on what to work on. And how about lucid dreaming?

Wegge, As to your text quotes above: Note the dates of origin first and then consider likely contexts. The Dianetics texts refer to present-life conditions and separately, to the growing (1950s) movement of dedicated people to 'destimulate' society, from stuck mental circuitry. The 1950's expansion grew into Scientology which recognized the past life circuitry as possessions of a spirit-soul...

The present time track responsibility grows into the whole track spiritual agenda.

There also was sort of a western pride to it in 1960s slogans like "Buddhism combined with IBM" ... IBM referring to the main frame computer industry before PCs and high power marketing conceit of dog eat dog. I had just enough western heritage to get excited about the "havingness" and "doingness". About becoming powerful and a highly successful being. Also, just enough eastern heritage to question everything about the "beingness", (thus getting me into trouble there).

The contexts of quotations are multiple, if not overwhelming to catalog. In that L.Ron's written words, refer to specific conditions, of cases of people he was working with, live. (Instances occurring long ago...) Therefore, some text quotes refer to specific case-conditions of individual life conditions, (of the organization clients or staff). I listened to about 50 hours of advanced course tapes, in which L. Ron spoke so openly about his auditing- remedies which he worked out... He was actually working them out, as matter of factuality, right along the way. I loved the openness and dared think we all deserved that processing freedom, without the regimented western-expansionist-dictator downfall-into power-monger-self-deceit.

The expansion of his organizations was quick and must have alarmed TPTB types, who probably snuck in, under cover, and really got their power trips unleashed. The flavoring seemed to me, decidedly over done. So i moved on. Unfortunately, as i see it, some power-wako got the better of the legal organizational structures... We can read an insider version of this in the Dane story: http://projectcamelot.org/dane_tops.htm I never got so involved or trained or staffed, but appreciate much of the tech.

[wegge]

Thanks wavy. I don´t want to state any absolutes in this thread I would like to encourage an open discussion so I wanted to throw this part of dreams just in and get the thoughts of members especially if one considers that everything Ron did was context dependend we also should (or shouldn´t, who cares anyway we can mockup any perspective we like ) act like that.

What just struck me was the part ""A frantic effort to orient, just to locate himself so that he can feel secure, that's what a dream is and a dream of course is pretended knowingness
because he is at none of these places." That was in 1961 way after introduction of Scientology/Spirit and if lucid dreaming is possible I think some part of YOU really can be at these places.

Why I posted the part of dreams at first was that yesterday evening it just popped up in my mind what would be the perspective of dreams in Scientology. Following that thought came the thought that if you´re a able Lucid Dreamer you could push your own case or possibly others (dream sharing) in a much faster way.

[Hervé]

Posted by wegge (here)
[...]

if you´re a able Lucid Dreamer you could push your own case or possibly others (dream sharing) in a much faster way.

Oxymoron or how mainstream terminology twists meanings and impedes any possible achievements in any field (see Ingo Swann's book "Penetration" and how the definition of "Telepathy" prevents any one to achieve it from mainstream's definition).

See?

If one is lucid, then, one ain't "dreaming." Or, if one is dreaming, then, one ain't "lucid" but under the spell of one's unconscious...

"A frantic effort to orient, just to locate himself so that he can feel secure, that's what a dream is and a dream of course is pretended knowingness because he is at none of these places."

LRH also mentioned something about "astral travels" as a being/thetan getting out of a body but accompanied by all its "baggages;" that is, all the unconscious filters, programmings, "their" mind, etc... whereas the goal of "exteriorization" is to get a being/thetan out of its assigned body AND out of its assigned mind/"their" mind and "baggages."

Same type of oxymoron as with "remote viewing"... how can one "remote view" the other side of the Moon without BEING THERE, in part or as a whole with partial or full perceptions in working order?

See how "thinking for oneself" can get one into unfathomable rabbit holes?

[wegge]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)

Posted by wegge (here)
[...]

if you´re a able Lucid Dreamer you could push your own case or possibly others (dream sharing) in a much faster way.

Oxymoron or how mainstream terminology twists meanings and impedes any possible achievements in any field (see Ingo Swann's book "Penetration" and how the definition of "Telepathy" prevents any one to achieve it from mainstream's definition).

See?

If one is lucid, then, one ain't "dreaming." Or, if one is dreaming, then, one ain't "lucid" but under the spell of one's unconscious...

"A frantic effort to orient, just to locate himself so that he can feel secure, that's what a dream is and a dream of course is pretended knowingness because he is at none of these places."

LRH also mentioned something about "astral travels" as a being/thetan getting out of a body but accompanied by all its "baggages;" that is, all the unconscious filters, programmings, "their" mind, etc... whereas the goal of "exteriorization" is to get a being/thetan out of its assigned body AND out of its assigned mind/"their" mind and "baggages."

Same type of oxymoron as with "remote viewing"... how can one "remote view" the other side of the Moon without BEING THERE, in part or as a whole with partial or full perceptions in working order?

See how "thinking for oneself" can get one into unfathomable rabbit holes?

I agree with people taking all their baggage with them, you can see it at "lucid" dreaming forums, some people start making their fantasies whatever they are a reality. But you can also observe yourself and your thoughts and that´s what I´m thinking of.

It´s also a good reminder to get the definitions clear. As I understood it by the talk of CPT Bill Robertson there are 3 kinds of telepathy, maybe the definition is just too narrow?

What about calling it conscious dreaming? Let´s assume you´re at another stage of reality. I don´t suppose you leave it instantly when you get "lucid". You just increase your conciousness, there isn´t also just the state of lucid or not, there are nuances. Same as in waking life/reality, everyone has a different consciousness but we tend to label them all as awake when we see them on the streets. (although sometimes you could think people are somnambulating the whole day)

Could you expand on exteriorization?

[Hervé]

Posted by wegge (here)
[...]

What about calling it conscious dreaming?

[...]

If you insist on referring to the activity as [something] "dreaming," then, you are insisting that the activity be relegated to a realm reserved to wild imaginations and fantasies... same way MSM belittles genuine researches with a labeling of "Conspiracy Theories."

"Exteriorization" would be an OBE without taking one's mind/filters/programs/constructs along for the trip.

[kanishk]

Here are some video tapes, audio tapes and some texts shared on direct links on http://www.galac-patra.org/freezone-eng/english.html by freezone. And on this link http://www.galac-patra.org/english.html Material by Captain Bill Robertson, very useful.

[kanishk]

I think that the reason why malevolent ETs are so indirect and lengthy in their approach about their activities, manipulation etc. on earth, still having many advanced technologies is because of NON INTERFERENCE DECREE and The Free Zone Decree.

The NON-INTERFERENCE DECREE on Sector 9 was received on Earth on the 29th April 1982 at 1200 GMT. It states, (as relayed from Mainship, Sector 9):

"The stars in this Sector are under a Non-Interference Decree from Galactic Central - Grand Council. The stipulations of the decree are:

1. No interference is permitted in the zone known as Sector Nine until further notice.

2. This decree is to be enforced by the Galactic Patrol.

3. There shall be no use of atomic, chemical, or biological weapons in the zone.

4. Travel to and from the zone is regulated and shall be subject to verification of intent and escort by the patrol.

5. The technical and ethical experiment in progress by Sector Commander Elron Elray is not to be interferred with in any way whatsoever as it is extremely vital to the future of the Galaxy and its inhabitants.

6. The Ethics Order by Commander Elray on the being Xenu, currently Joseph Strasburg, alias "Herr J." or "Mister J." or Germany/Switzerland banking circles, declaring him Suppressive, is to be enforced.

7. It is to be understood that this is a controlled and protected Sector until further notice.

8, Communications to and from Sector 9 shall be routed through Galactic Central Ambassadorial Section and final authority in cases of dispute shall be held by the Grand Council.

By order of the Grand Council



GALACTIC CENTRAL

---------

The FREE ZONE DECREE was received on Earth on the 10th of November 1982 at 1030 GMT. It states, (as relayed from Mainship, Sector 9):

OFFICIAL DECREE - GALACTIC GRAND COUNCIL

1. The planet known as Teegeeack - local dialect "Earth" or "Terra" - Sun 12, Sector 9, is hereby declared a Free Zone.

2. No political interference in its affairs from any other part of the Sector or Galaxy will be tolerated.

3. No economic interference in its affairs will be tolerated from any non-planetary agency or power.

4. All of its inhabitants are hereby declared Free Zone Citizens and free of external political or economic interference.

5. The regulating agency of this decree is the Galactic Patrol Sector 9, Sector Commander Elron Elray and his designated representatives.

6. The planet is henceforth under the Sole Auspices of the Galactic Patrol, Sector 9, for coordination with Galactic and Sector Affairs and for compliance with this decree.

7. The Technical and Ethical experiments in progress on Teegeeack are not affected by this decree and are to continue under the auspices of the Galactic Patrol, Sector 9.

8. This Decree is issued by unanimous vote of the Grand Council.

GRAND COUNCIL CHAIRMAN

FOR ALL MEMBERS SECTOR 0 GALAXY 1

There are more details on www.galac-patra.org/english/sector_9.zip and www.galac-patra.org/english/teegeeack.zip

And also this area of Galaxy was from earlier time is declared as freezone, like neutralzone in Starstrek. All the communications within this sector and from this sector only allowed through Galactic central in center of the galaxy.