I dont think there is reincarnation.

[etheric underground]

I vividly remember my last 7 lives ....to think something isnt the conclusion it is from the mind..to know is to feel from the heart.
From my heart I recollect my past lives...I can tell who I was and what I did...I can tell you how I died and that when we die in our
past life it is our birth date in this life....
Many of the traits I hold are from past events...if we do not believe we have these lives...then we cannot heal or understand our faults.
Keep learning...for our reality is obviously more than
you can fathom at this time

[newfc12]

I believe in re-incarnation 110% percent.

What I can’t get my head around though is that, its implied (from much of the material out there) that these lives don’t happen in a linear order but happen in parallel, all occurring at the same time.

As a teenager I always felt grateful not to have been born in a time of war, but it kind of freaks me out to think I could be thrown back in at any time period both in the past and future.
Dolores Cannon’s books are a real eye opener on the whole subject.

[Prodigal Son]

Posted by Rozzy (here)
The JW's or any one else in the christian, pseudo christian realm that preaches eternal anything from the Bible can only do so if they manipulate the text through translation methods.

Unless this was written by some lying scribe (I seriously doubt it was "Paul")...

...how was this text manipulated through translation methods? I'm putting in the Greek words that I bolded from Strong's Concordance....

Hebrews 9:27 New International Version (©2011)
Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

Heb 9:27 And G2532 as G2596 G3745 it is appointed G606 unto men G444 once G530 to die, G599 but G1161 after G3326 this G5124 the judgment: G2920

606. apokeimai ap-ok'-i-mahee from 575 and 2749; to be reserved; figuratively, to await:--be appointed, (be) laid up

599. apothnesko ap-oth-nace'-ko from 575 and 2348; to die off (literally or figuratively):--be dead, death, die, lie a-dying, be slain (X with).

530. hapax hap'-ax probably from 537; one (or a single) time (numerically or conclusively):--once.

2920. krisis kree'-sis decision (subjectively or objectively, for or against); by extension, a tribunal; by implication, justice (especially, divine law):--accusation, condemnation, damnation, judgment.

[hangel]

Some stuff i rediscovered recently that made me think of belief systems:

From Bill's thread about reading materials for all Avalonians:
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...all-Avalonians

there is a short line about timelines and that nothing bad had happened yet and its long overdue so we are on the good track...
peoples way of thinking/believes could do that.

look into Dane Tops interview: http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/dane_tops_en.html
this fragment:
"Ingo tells the story of how they gave him a job of going to the moon. He called it remote viewing, but I assure you, Ingo WENT to the moon! And that’s how the government found out that there were ETs on the moon. And very aware ETs, because Ingo quickly found out that the ETs who were on the moon were able to sense that he was there, even though he went there out of body. "

so from that point in time when Ingo went to the Moon the most probable timeline was catastrophic timeline 2 when 'some of future us' went to the Moon after Earth started having difficulties

Like described by Dan Burish: from http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/da...ript_2_en.html

(...)
The Ark on the Moon
K: Which is where?
D: Our nearest body, the Moon.
K: The Moon.
D: Where on it, I’m not going to say.
K: OK. Well, this gets into...
D: Because of having to defend against the possibility of Timeline 1 transitioning over to Timeline 2 in a manner different than I’ve been told. And I’m not going to be the person who hands off the wrong information.
K: So... OK, but you’re saying the Nordics are going to get off Earth if the catastrophe happens. Or regardless.
D: They leave after.
K: After the catastrophe happens.
D: Presumably several thousand years after it happens, they leave.
K: Several thousand years.
D: Yes, they move to the Moon.
K: Oh. I was getting the impression you were talking about them going on space ships or something.
D [shaking head no] Not really. No. They move off to the Moon several thousand years, via space craft. They get to the place where the Ark was held and that they re-establish a new community. From there they move to Mars. From Mars, out to Orion.
K: So they...
D: We’re talking a lot of time here.
The Face on Mars
K: The “face” on Mars... is this... Are we looking at something that was left behind by the Nordics?
D: Uh huh.
K: So we’re looking...
D: As best as I know.
K: ...we’re looking forward to our future when...
D: We’re looking at a paradox.
K: ...when we’re looking at the ruins.
D: Yeah. We’re looking at a paradox of their ruins, which they left on another planet.
K: In the... in our future.
D: In our future.
K: In our possible future.
D: Yep.

Then our believe system: Driven in some cases for example by Richard Hoagland

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=GDEcfohz8xE

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=3Sto4F2vBZg

Now, by... Yes -i agree- photo hard Evidence.. that may be a paradox we are made to believe that Moon and Mars were/are occupied (Im not saying they are not inhabitable now, treat this as a pure exercise or a theory).

Bad things had not happened and we hopefully ARE on a good timeline 1 (sorry if i mixed the numbers, always get confused). Some people, by drilling into hard evidence, such as images, understanding them too literally and without considering that this may be a paradox, may actually change our believe system and drag us back to catastrophic timeline 2 becuase there will enough people believing it. And the subject will reach a tipping point.

These pictures may be just a phenomenon of image imprinted in stones (stone tape theory). Like some people can see old battles or ancient soldiers as a ghosts. They exist because there was energy at some point of time (a thought energy) that created them to justify peoples beliefs.

More on that theory here:
http://www.assap.ac.uk/newsite/artic...%20ghosts.html

This is what i meant.. Sorry about drifting into slightly different subject, but wanted to give you a good example of how to control beliefs..

[Peace of Mind]

It could be true, it could be false. No one can say for certain but this does sound like the “Falling Angels” theory that has been making more sense to me than anything else. I can easily see how this may be true because there are many people on this planet totally oblivious to the consequences of their ways, and how their actions and inactions affect the world/everything around them.

We are special, the only creature on this planet with the intelligence to solve every problem without the need for violence, and has the actual potential to destroy the planet fully, or transform it into utopia/paradise, almost instantly. For such a phenomenal specie to exist… it still was born to die, why? Imho, free will/choice is the mechanism that tests our soul/spirit. To know the true value, scope, Identity, interpretation of any being or thing it must be examined, most times under pressure. Diamonds/gold had to go through extreme conditions before they became appealing or seen as worthy. I liken this to humans as well; we thrive once put under pressure, which also leads me to thinking we are mainly here to learn lessons and understanding the experiences of our actions through their results.

It’s very hard for me to imagine such a being as humans only came here just to be born and die, it’s just too much divine intelligence within us to be born into organize slavery. Our biggest problem probably is our lack of belief in self. Many are just too conditioned to expect and accept help from others; we lack accountability and often like to blame others for the problems we created collectively. With all the potential in the world being wasted, I can easily consider the idea that we all came here to realize our power and to learn how to use it responsibly. The world is a perfect place to test such a being because it is saturated with many obstacles and distractions that will test/examine our individual core beliefs, emotions and more importantly…our intentions.

I don’t really follow the reincarnation stuff for 2 reasons, 1 is the dead tells no tales, and the other is many people believing them almost always say they were bigtime and/or a very important person in their last lives. But, somehow in this life they are just average people who hardly do anything other than make assumptions. I imagine a reincarnated soul would be here for a purpose, I doubt they would come back just to waste time, energy, and their responsibility. Some of the reincarnated testimonies sound more like excuses. This is a typical example: “ In my last life…I was Moses, Abraham Lincoln, and a fallen soldier in world war one, but this time around I came back here just to see what it feels like to do nothing, even though my past experiences would most certainly be useful in this day and age”.

In conclusion, It matters not what, who you were before…what matters is what, who you are now.

Peace

[4evrneo]

Posted by Vivek (here)
Okay, so instead of a couple dozen markers, imagine having around 20 trillion markers (the DNA in the body). These markers don't just record motion, they are also influenced by the electromagnetic energy in the environment around them. Additionally, they may be affected by the interplay of energies we don't completely understand by means of conventional science.

Each human has this system of 20 trillion markers that is with them their entire life span. Each human is unique. DNA acts as a transceiver as well. So, moment to moment, we are beaming the instantaneous state of our physical being somewhere. A continuous stream of information about our life is being holographically transcribed onto something -- imprinted. Maybe onto the aether. Maybe into some energetic layer of the Earth's upper atmosphere. I really don't know.

The point is that the "tune" of every body's life transcription would be slightly unique in the same way that their DNA is unique to them.

Now, it could be that the recombinant non-coding portions of your DNA are very similar to some body that lived in the past. In this way you can tune into their life. This ability wouldn't be possible if you didn't share some fragmentary portion of their genetics. In this way you are connected to who they were. You share a part of their DNA. Not only theirs, but others as well because you biologically exist as a quilted patchwork of the DNA before you. They also biologically existed as a piecemeal of the DNA of their genetic ancestors.

You are the sum total of the experiences that this DNA has undergone.

Now that's cool.

You may have little fragments here and there of one kind of life or another. Maybe you share a lot with a particular lineage and can remember entire lives. Maybe it boils down to how well you can tune into it -- your DNA.

Rupert Sheldrake has some great ideas regarding morphogenetic fields that may shed some light on this too.

From Wikipedia:

The hypothesis is that a particular form belonging to a certain group, which has already established its (collective) "morphic field", will tune into that "morphic field". The particular form will read the collective information through the process of "morphic resonance", using it to guide its own development. This development of the particular form will then provide, again through "morphic resonance", a feedback to the "morphic field" of that group, thus strengthening it with its own experience, resulting in new information being added (i.e. stored in the database). Sheldrake regards the "morphic fields" as a universal database for both organic (genetic) and abstract (mental) forms.

That a mode of transmission of shared informational patterns and archetypes might exist did gain some tacit acceptance when it was proposed as the theory of the collective unconscious by renowned psychiatrist Carl Jung. According to Sheldrake, the theory of "morphic fields" might provide an explanation for Jung's concept as well. Also, he agrees that the concept of akashic records, term from Vedas representing the "library" of all the experiences and memories of human minds (souls) through their physical lifetime, can be related to "morphic fields", since one's past (an akashic record) is a mental form, consisting of thoughts as simpler mental forms (all processed by the same brain), and a group of similar or related mental forms also have their associated (collective) "morphic field". (Sheldrake's view on memory-traces is that they are non-local, and not located in the brain.)

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Sheldrake

Furthermore, this idea is discussed a little more than half way through this post here.

Lastly, regarding DNA and memory ... It is interesting that mainstream science is now exploring the ideas and methods of using DNA for computation and memory storage.

From an article entitled, Are we ready for DNA-based computer memory?

First came floppy disks, CDs, and DVDs. And then came USB flash drives, memory cards. So what's next? Maybe DNA.

DNA or deoxyribonucleic acid is a long string-like molecule that stores all the genetic instructions that a living organism needs to grow and to function.

As such, DNA is capable of storing vast amounts of information: theoretically, one gram can contain some 455 billion gigabytes —almost half a billion terabytes, the equivalent of over 100 billion DVDs.

[...]

Some of the advantages of storing data into DNA are that it can be easily copied, and often still readable after thousands of years. So much for the magnetic tape and DVD.

Digital data is usually stored as binary code—using the digits one and zero. DNA, on the other hand, stores data using four digits: A, C, G, and T. However, to minimize errors and to avoid the need to create very long sequences of codes, Church’s team maintained the binary code using A and C as zero, and G and T, as one.

The team built a sequence of artificial DNA letter by letter using the strings of As, Cs, Gs and Ts coding for the letters of the book. They embedded the fragments of data onto glass chips which contains the address code showing the location of the data within the original file.

Source: http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story...omputer-memory

----------


----------

Nature, which is infinitely more complex than our own technologies, seems to have already devised a way to do this (if we consider the above article with respect to Sheldrake's theories). It's interesting now to re-examine the possibility of "past lives" ... it takes the mystification out of it, which for me makes it even more wondrous.

See also: http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/bull...d-in-dna/11195

"My hypothesis is that [the cosmic serpent] is connected to the double helix of DNA inside virtually all living beings. And DNA itself is a symbolic Saussurian code. So, yes, in at least one important way, the living world is inherently symbolic. We are made of living language."
- Jeremy Narby -

A living language. The Logos ... The Gnostics had an interesting view of the Logos (and so did Philip K. Dick).

----------

Vivek !
Good to see you back, My my, its always so stimulating to hear your perspectives and I appreciate all the research that you do. I also have been listening to many lectures of Rupert Sheldrake lately.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=JKHUaNAxsTg

He is so right, the scientific dogma's need to be re-examined.......

[Daughter of Time]

Re-incarnation is certainly real for me. I accept and respect that it may not be real for others.

I've had flash backs of other times and existences since I was a child of about 4. I could not explain these mysterious happenings. Eventually, as an adult, I went through past life therapy and memories kept flowing out to the point that my mind was spinning. Many things that emerged during those sessions I knew nothing about but later did research and found that everything I remembered had been historically recorded. I know it can be argued that those were not my memories but part of the collective memories, but for me, they were mine and I'm still convinced of that.

Some years ago, at a dinner party, a Christian minister was sitting next to me. The host sat us next to each other intentionally, because they wanted to see if an interesting conversation would arise since our spiritual beliefs are so different. Since I knew the minister did not believe in re-incarnation, I asked him if he could kindly explain his version of why some people are born with silver spoons in their mouths (figuratively speaking) while others are born in utterly squalid conditions? Since he is a man of God then certainly he must have a better understanding than most about why God would allow such differences? I asked. The minister, of course, did not have an answer, and after much pondering he gave me the standard answer: "God works in mysterious ways". I don't buy it!

[Peace of Mind]

I Remember the last couple of years people were claiming they reincarnated this time for the 2012 event. As for me, I reincarnate every morning and before I go to sleep at night I give thanks for that day. Then I prepare myself for the next day that will be just as productive, insightful, and enjoyable. Anything less is unacceptable.

Peace

[shijo]

Reincarnation? I never use tinned milk!

[selinam]

I believe in reincarnation. One of the reasons why is this: in my first pregnancy I had twins but one of the twins died shortly after birth. Why would someone be born and die within a couple of hours? What would be the reason? Why would that be the only 'life' they have? I had another child 6 years later and I often wondered if my twin daughter had been 're-born' into my 2nd child? Still can't answer that one!

[Playdo of Ataraxas]

This was posted at the Here and Now thread a while back.......at least, I think so, but that could've been in another lifetime....

[Wind]

I respect everyone's views, but I personally know that reincarnation exists. I have no need to prove it, but I know that I have had hundreds if not thousands of lives. Time as we know it doesn't exist. Thousands of years mean nothing in the spirit world.

I was there when Atlantis existed, I've existed in other dimensions and star systems. My soul is eternal and this body is just a temporary vessel. We are all part of the Creation, we are part of God. Names don't matter... We all are eternal co-creators. In a sense we all are nothing less than Gods! We have just forgotten it.

That is the truth which has been hidden from us by religions!

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

As much as people like to push absolutes, I believe the Bible preaches somewhat that good intentions are rather more important than what we manage down here on earth.
People like to condemn good intentions and say that the road to hell is paved with them.
Why would God feel sorry for us humans if we didn't sometimes have good intentions, and the problem is, we screw it up a lot?
We don't possess the kind of longstanding memory that is required in order to keep track of all that stuff, honestly.
We are given just enough time down here to be confused and have a little trouble surviving.
The lucky ones leave a positive legacy behind, and the rest of us comprise the rat race and accomplish very little other than temporary self-preservation.

Now, as for reincarnation, my opinion is that a loving God wouldn't create a useless thing. Rudyard Kipling argued from that standpoint, saying that the idea that God creates a soul then robs it of its function is illogical. He believed that the idea of reincarnation most accurately expressed the eternal nature of God and his creation.

Let me quote him here:

"They will come back, come back,
as long as the red earth rolls --
God never wasted a tree or a leaf;
why would he squander souls?"

~Rudyard Kipling

_________________________________________

It's entirely possible that reincarnation exists in order to provide some mathematical closure and sensibility to God.
He would have a lot of loose ends to tie off all the time if he didn't give these souls something else to do, in my opinion.
I don't know for sure if reincarnation is the truth or if there is even an afterlife.
But there's just too much "weird ****" in our world to ignore the idea that some things stick around on VERY borrowed time!

_________________________________________

Once people shed the guilt that comes from having a religion hammered into their heads as children,
they should be able to happily and rationally discuss these things without worrying about the spanking that comes next.

Of course, reincarnation itself, like some people above mentioned,
could be little more than "I dood a bad thing" in Heaven and now we're all stuck here? LOL.

[hangel]

in Dolores Cannon's book "keepers of the garden" there is a very interesting part about reincarnation. The explanation is possibly as close to the truth as i could ever find it.

here is a short citation:

"THIS TALK OF OTHER DIMENSIONS was confusing to me and made
questioning difficult. I hoped for a reprieve, a time to gather my
thoughts, by directing him back to earthly lives. There I would be
once again on familiar ground. But I was to find that now that the
door had been opened to other worlds and strange existences, we
would not be able to cross back to the mundane and safe familiar
world. The reason was the most startling I had ever encountered and
temporarily shook my foundations and beliefs in what I was doing.
Maybe it is true that nothing really is as it appears.

D: Have you had many lives on this planet Earth?
P: This is my first physical life, my first true incarnation on this
planet. I have had imprints from many others and been assistant
to others. However, this is my first true physical incarnation
on Earth.
Wait a minute! What did he mean? Earlier he had said that he
was new to this earthly realm, that he was more familiar with the area
of other planets and other dimensions. But how could this be his first
life on Earth? This was confusing because when we first began working
together we had touched on about four other lives that had definitely
taken place on this planet. What was going on during those
earlier sessions?
D: Then the other answers discussed were not real?
P: They were imprints and assistances, they were not true physical
incarnations.

This really threw me. I had never heard of an imprint. In my
work with regressions, either you lived a life or you didn't. The only
other alternative is that the subject was fantasizing or imagining the
whole thing. I have always prided myself on being able to tell the
difference. In everything I have read about possible explanations for
the memories of other lives, I had never heard of anything called
"imprinting." (...)

D: Do you mean that some souls when they come into a life, rather than
having lived these exacpt past life experiences, they take...
P: They can withdraw information from the Akashic records
and imprint this information into their soul, and it will then be
their experience.

Other researchers have said that the Akashic records contain no
mention of time, only the record of events, emotions and the lessons
learned.

D: Well... Can you tell me how can I tell the difference when l do work like this?
P: No, because even I can't tell the difference. If I am in an imprint,
that imprint is as real as if I had actually experienced it. All the
emotions, the memories, the feelings, virtually everything about
that life is in that imprint. So from my point of view I would be
unable to tell because I would be completely absorbed in the
experience. This is the whole idea of imprint. This is the ability
to live thousands, hundreds of thousands of years on a planet and
actually never to have been there before.
D: What would be the reason?
P: If one were to come to this planet from another planet or dimension
without the aid of imprints, one would be totally lost. One
would not understand customs, religions, politics, or how to act
in a social environment. This is the necessity for imprint. In the
case of star people coming to this planet, there is no previous
earthly experience of human existence in their subconscious. In
order for this person to feel comfortable and at ease, there must
be something with which to draw on and compare those day-to-day experiences which one is encountering. For if this were not
so, the feeling of total out-of-harmony would be virtually present
every single day, until there arose that time when one could look
back and see some semblance of history. That is in the later part
of life. However, the confusion and disharmony from having to
experience this, would negate any learning, for always there
would be the disharmony, which all learning would have to filter
through. All learning would be colored with this disharmony and
would be, in effect, no learning at all. So there must be this
imprinting to allow the vehicle to feel comfortable in his new surroundings
and in those experiences which would be totally alien.
For even such simple things as an argument would become so
terrifying to the vehicle as to render him totally void. The star
people have no experience with anger or fear as you know it It
would incapacitate them. It would paralyze them. They would
be totally traumatized.

Many people believe that all this is conditioned by the environment
anyway. That a baby's mind is totally fresh and all information
is learned and absorbed as it grows and lives its life. Apparently we
rely more on our subconscious memories than we realize. It seems
to be like a computer bank from which we constantly draw comparisons
in our daily lives. According to this new idea, an alien coming
for the first time into an earthly body and facing a strange new culture
must have something in their past memories to orient themselves
and give them something to relate to. This whole idea was
startling to me and opened up an entirely new way of thinking. It
could change my whole outlook on reincarnation.

D: But, is there any way when I work with people that I can tell if they are
remembering and reliving an actual life or an imprint?
P: We ask why you would wish to know?
D: Well, it's probably to help prove whatever I'm trying to prove?
I laughed inwardly, because it boiled down to: What am I trying
to prove anyhow? He seemed to read my mind.
P: And what are you trying to prove?
I shook my head and laughed in bewilderment, "That's a good
question."

P: We will shortly show that you will answer your own question.
D: Well,I'm trying to prove the reality of reincarnation,because many people
don't believe in the concept. By having someone go through a life and
being able to prove that that person did exist in that time period, I am trying
to verify these things. But if someone was remembering an imprint,
would we also be able to verify it?
P: That is correct, for the experience was actually lived, even though
it was not lived by the vehicle you would be presently speaking to.
However, all the information would be the same, as if you had
actually been talking to the very soul which had been in that
vehicle at that time. Imprints become in reality a part of that soul
and are so carried with that soul.
D: Would this be an explanation for the theory that sometimes more than one
person appears to have lived the same previous lifetime? For instance,
several Cleopatras, several Napoleons. Would imprinting take this into
consideration?
P: Absolutely. For there is no... (he had difficulty finding the right
word) proprietorship to these imprints. They are open to all.
And so it becomes useless to try to pinpoint who was actually that
person, for it is meaningless.
I have never had this happen, but it is one of the arguments
presented by skeptics.
D: This is one of the arguments people have against reincarnation.They say
if they find so many people with the same lives then it can't be true.
P: They are being challenged to widen their scope of knowledge.
They are given facts which contradict their short-sighted beliefs
and are so challenged to expand their awareness.
D: Then it doesn't matter if someone was the actual Cleopatra or whatever.
We still have access to the information of their life.
P: It can be verified as easily with the actual soul or with one of many
hundred others who experience the same imprint. It makes no
difference.

(...)
D. Then it doesn't really matter if it (reincarnation) can be proved or not, does it?
P: Exactly. What is the point? One could go for millennia in tracing
one's "past lives," quote, unquote, and in this respect, it would
be totally useless. However, there is much that can be learned
from these recalls. Not only from a personal point of view for the
regressee but for those who read and hear of this. Much knowledge
can be shared so there is much use for everyone.
D: By reliving past lives, some people receive a lot of benefit in their personal
lives, such as understanding their personal relationships with others.
P: Yes, that is true.
(...)
The method of imprinting is beyond me. The effect is to experience
multiple lives, maybe simultaneously, maybe serially. But the
effect is to learn lessons from other people's experiences. The
lessons are shared. The experiences each of us are having in this
lifetime now will be available at the end of these lifetimes to be
imprinted for use by anyone who would have a use for them. It's
simply borrowing books from a library if you would consider each
life a book and reading and understanding it instantly.
(...)


D: This is causing me a little confusion. Are you saying then that there is no
such thing as reincarnation as we know it?
P: Let me say, there is the progression from body to body. There is
also the imprints. Someone may have lived actually five lives, but
yet have the experience of 500. It's a combination of effects.

Apparently Phil's subconscious was using another protective
device when I first began working with him. It allowed the imprints
to come forth first in regression so that Phil would not learn of his
other-worldly connections until he was ready to accept and understand
them. If I had not continued to work with him, the stories of
his lives on other planets would never have surfaced. This can also
be said of other subjects. There would be no way for me to know, and
they themselves certainly would not know that we were dealing with
star people. It was a very unique protection device. I have observed
this while working with other subjects. The best information only
came after working for a long period of time. Rapport must be established
in order for the subject to release it. This work demands much
patience. If I had tired and given up too soon, I would never have
received any of the stories I have written about in my books.
(...)

there is more but you can get the book and read. its interesting.

[indigopete]

My thoughts on this are:

BINARY PROGRAMMING:

We are programmed from birth to think in binary concepts which lead to 'absolutes' when in fact this is an artificial perspective.

There is no absolute "good" and no "bad". There is only harmony and disharmony. Everything that's good today is to varying extents a product of everything that was bad yesterday.

IDENTITY PROGRAMMING:

We are programmed from birth to think of identity as a unitary concept when in fact this again is a false perspective. We have layers of identity - only some of these can re-incarnate, others clearly do not.

For example, the (metaphysical) kinetic energy in a moving red billiard ball can 're-incarnate' in the blue ball when it strikes it. But the blue ball is not the red ball. So the red ball cannot claim to have "re-incarnated" as the blue ball - some of it's identity was lost on the way and some new identity gained. On the other hand, the kinetic energy of the red ball did find complete continuity in the blue ball and could be said to have 're-incarnated' in the blue ball.

So it all depends where you take your identity from as to whether that identity "re-incarnates" or not. Since we are in bodies, we take most of our identity from our physical existence - our names, our relationships, our wants, needs, likes, dislikes, loves and hates. Although all of these things derive from a metaphysical existence, they only find expression in the physical. Therefore, as with the red billiard ball, our identity as we currently experience it ceases to exist when we die. That which re-incarnates is something we cannot know because to know it would be to relinquish who we are today.

For example, I can separate the concept of "colour" from an orange. "Colour" is a metaphysical aspect of the orange which has continuity from one physical instance to the next. However, if an orange were to think of itself only as "colour" then it relinquishes most of the aspects of identity that made it unique when it was 'in it's body'.

Therefore, when people ask the question as to whether "we" re-incarnate or not, my intuitive answer must be: no-we do not because an identity is implied in the question that derives from a physical physical expression of spirit.

When people with past life memories say they have "re-incarnated" what has in fact incarnated is a memory. There's no way of knowing how that memory got there - we are all born with memories because we have imaginations and we dream. Those visual constructs came (come) from somewhere but no-one knows where. The fact that some of those co-incide with documented historical lives and events doesn't mean that "we were that person" - we cant possibly know that because we don't know how identities delineate in the metaphysical realm.

In fact they may not delineate at all, we may all be the same identity in that realm !

[gardunk]

Thanks Vivek/ good stuff there my friend! just off the other forum on who controls the hologram/ same voices diff thread. To focus on dna is pivotal to the discussion.
Simply to me for the person that started this thread, chaos and complexity theory shows that like w dna information is a two way thing/ transmission and reception and builds in a wave form around the void we call aether. I cannot imagine that in one life heaven could allow us in or out based on the perceptions of that limited experience, never mind based on how we performed in this "heaven"...

[Apulu]

Spot the newbie! This topic is bound to excite a few passions...

I respect your viewpoint of course Peace of Mind; I wondered if you thought you were as careful as you could be to lean away from a tone of certainty in your original assertions, i.e. that this is the only life that we live etc. It's a tricky thing to do, I admit, to really question weather we KNOW something or not, even if we feel that we do; it's usually a question of how much we have invested in the belief I suppose.

I feel (rather dramatically sounding) that just about all of the perceived ills of humanity can be boiled down to this simple error: believing that we know something, when in fact we do not. All conflict, of any kind, seems to be a result of this. It's been said many times, in many different ways, usually using that overused and little thought about term: ignorance. And the word has too many negative connotations these days IMO when it seems that we are all just about totally ignorant when you really think about it... My currant favourite way of saying it is "The only sin is Ignorance". More profound than it sounds!

Any discussion of this kind, involving belief-systems, I think is rather likely to run in circles unless we have first asked this question: do we really know what we are saying? It's a little scary to realise that the answer, probably by definition of the fact that we are saying it, must be no, we do not. Sorry if the whole "is it possible to actually know anything for certain" thing has entered a bit too much here, that's probably another thread...

My own viewpoint is very much in favour of reincarnation. I have my own personal proof (I'll share if anyone wants to hear it), but it has not convinced a couple of people who were already convinced that we don't reincarnate! The other question I feel must be asked is: one way or another, what purpose does it serve? Even though I've found a lot of inspiration from becoming convinced about reincarnation, and had a hell of lot of unfathomable quirks about existence explained by it, I still have to conclude that ultimately the belief in it probably serves no purpose at all. And I do mean ultimately.

[GloriousPoetry]

I don't believe in reincarnation for all souls....I believe some souls choose to return to this world but not all souls. My remembrance is not of this world but of the power I came into this world with from somewhere else.....I'm still connecting the dots....this world is a stopping ground...I'm choosing not to return.

[sirdipswitch]

Posted by Wind (here)
I respect everyone's views, but I personally know that reincarnation exists. I have no need to prove it, but I know that I have hundreds if not thousands of lives. Time as we know it doesn't exist. Thousands of years mean nothing in the spirit world.

I was there when Atlantis existed, I've existed in other dimensions and star systems. My soul is eternal and this body is just a temporary vessel. We are all part of the Creation, we are part of God. Names don't matter... We all are eternal co-creators. In a sense we all are nothing less than Gods! We have just forgotten it.

That is the truth which has been hidden from us by religions!

Yep!!! You got it!!

[northstar]

Posted by indigopete (here)
We are programmed from birth to think in binary concepts which lead to 'absolutes' when in fact this is an artificial perspective.

There is no absolute "good" and no "bad". There is only harmony and disharmony. Everything that's good today is to varying extents a product of everything that was bad yesterday.

I love that comment about harmony and disharmony. It aligns nicely with what I have been thinking and reading lately

Posted by indigopete (here)

We have layers of identity - only some of these can re-incarnate, others clearly do not.

So it all depends where you take your identity from as to whether that identity "re-incarnates" or not. Since we are in bodies, we take most of our identity from our physical existence - our names, our relationships, our wants, needs, likes, dislikes, loves and hates. Although all of these things derive from a metaphysical existence, they only find expression in the physical. Therefore, as with the red billiard ball, our identity as we currently experience it ceases to exist when we die. That which re-incarnates is something we cannot know because to know it would be to relinquish who we are today.


Therefore, when people ask the question as to whether "we" re-incarnate or not, my intuitive answer must be: no-we do not because an identity is implied in the question that derives from a physical physical expression of spirit.

I love the "identity" angle. This gives me food for thought. Thanks!