The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

[Freed Fox]

Ok, I apologize if any of the following comes across as ignorant, self-indulgent, or overly semantic. Also as a preface, I think it's safe to say that when we here discuss the 'ego', we each probably have a slightly different conceptualization of it. Also, it is different from Ego in the Freudian sense. I know that he is the one who coined the term originally, but that's a bit beside the point. In some ways, the concept has evolved in circles like these to refer to something which he may have considered to be a facet of the subconscious (so it is really contrary to his beliefs, even though we borrow his terminology).

Furthermore this kind of discussion becomes quite complicated, because we are essentially pulling apart different aspects from within the abstract realm of the mind. The mind seems to be the source of it all, and unless one has done some 'inner work' (meditation, careful introspection, etc), it is impossible to make such distinctions.

One common theme I've noticed from many members here when discussing 'inner work', is the recognition that there seems to be a foreign influence. At the very least, a 'brand' of thought patterns which are not constructive to the individual but often destructive. These are what I have come to regard as the Ego. Like Finefeather said, it agrees with the bad judgements of the self, to bring one down, while simultaneously agreeing with the good so as to aggrandize and inflate the self to unhealthy proportion.

Thus, I have regarded the ego as, essentially, the enemy. I have not felt as though I am tearing myself down in doing so, but rather working to a greater purity of thought and mind, and in essence improving myself and my intentions. The good aspects of ego that TraineeHuman described (#540), I have always associated with 'the observer'. To me, it is quite separate from the ego, but rather what I basically define as 'me'.

Please correct me if I'm wrong on this (these are my current truths but I would not be so bold as to assert them as ultimate truths), but what I end up having then, is a model of the mind which has three separate sources of thought. Ego, Observer, and Higher Self. Now, I would certainly accept if I was wrong about the HS, because I don't consider myself to have a concrete connection with it (if any at all). To me, HS represents true inspiration and intuition. When I sense danger, without having reason to suspect it. When I have a gut feeling to do something different, which ends up working out splendidly. When I reach out to a loved one, without even knowing that they are in a time of need. Is this somewhat accurate? Does anyone here have interactions with 'HS' that go beyond intuition/inspiration?

teradactyl's post reminds me of the time in my life leading up to the realization that my ego was my master. I was inexplicably angry, almost all of the time. I would come up with rationalizations for it, to justify and explain away my anger. And yes, smashing things was one of my go-to therapies. For what it's worth, however, such remedies were not ultimately effective.

The key for me was first, reflection and introspection. I did this until I was able to identify the ego thoughts as different from what was inherently me. They were not true to my identity, and they were ruining the good things in my life. The second step, then, was to BE the observer (and not the ego).

She may have been a controversial figure here, but this is (in my mind) what 9eagle9 was shooting for with her topics on 'Their Mind'. It is like a counterfeit mind, a seemingly foreign source of thoughts, dressed in heavy camouflage. It feeds off of emotional responses... primarily those which paint you in your own mind as the victim of any given situation or circumstance. It goes so far as to draw out anger or envy or fear in scenarios which aren't even about you personally. It makes things personal.

Become the observer... then you are able to identify and overcome this destructive influence.

Am I wrong in considering this influence the ego? I suppose there is something to be gained from establishing a consensus on these terms and concepts, though it seems to me the most important thing is to employ conceptualizations which make sense to us each personally and allow us to work with them internally.

[Freed Fox]

Now to be a bit more on-topic;

Is there any true distinction between OBE and lucid dreams? I've been thinking about it sort of as a gradient of consciousness/awareness, ascending like so:

Dream ---> Lucid Dream ---> OBE

This judgement was based on testimonies of others along with my lack of experience with OBE. The one I reported on this thread was still to date the only experience which really struck me as an OBE (though perhaps not full-blown). However, if lucid dreams truly are the same thing, then it appears that I've had more than I thought.

I have had at least a dozen lucid dreams in my life, of varying quality. There are two trends I'd like to quickly bring up... TH, I know you said that using one's own intuition is more effective than the intellectual approach and I would agree, but I would still appreciate any input or insight you have on these (and anyone else should also feel free to chime in).

Up until, perhaps one year ago, whenever I would have a lucid dream it was the same practically every time. In the midst of a normal dream I would suddenly realize I was dreaming, and virtually the very next moment I would take off and start flying. These were always such amazing experiences... truly exhilarating, because I wouldn't just float up and drift around, but shoot up into the sky at high speed. I would get a strong 'roller coaster' sensation in my gut, but it was much more enjoyable than a roller coaster to me because I was moving freely and in control of my movements. I always felt fortunate when I awoke from one of these, and as I mentioned I've had perhaps a dozen or more.

Now, within perhaps the past year, I've only lucid dreamed two or three times. A marked difference with these is that I don't gain that instant control and freedom anymore. I distinctly remember a LD I had last week in which I went lucid and attempted to fly, only to float off of the ground a few feet. It was as though something was weighing me down...

The second 'trend', may not be frequent enough yet to consider a trend. It goes back to the act of looking into the mirror that I mentioned in my OBE post. IIRC, I've had two dreams since then in which I gazed into a mirror in an attempt to go OOB. I mentioned in the aforementioned post that my face became grotesque, looking as though I had suffered from severe over-exposure to the sun. In these more recent dreams (which did not result in OBE), my face became blotted very darkly in a few places. It had the appearance almost like I was badly bruised, only the patches were almost solid black and shifted as though a fluid underneath my skin. Perhaps this is meaningless, but I find it strange that my face always has some unpleasant appearance when I do this...

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by Freed Fox (here)
Ok, I apologize if any of the following comes across as ignorant, self-indulgent, or overly semantic. Also as a preface, I think it's safe to say that when we here discuss the 'ego', we each probably have a slightly different conceptualization of it.

Hi again, Freed Fox. Thank you for your detailed sharing.

I would say that what matters is our experience rather than our conceptualisations. I suspect we all have a similar enough experience not to be confused about it, or not much.

Also, it is different from Ego in the Freudian sense. I know that he is the one who coined the term originally, but that's a bit beside the point. In some ways, the concept has evolved in circles like these to refer to something which he may have considered to be a facet of the subconscious (so it is really contrary to his beliefs, even though we borrow his terminology).

No, you're on the wrong track there, I'm afraid. The word “ego” as I am using it is with the same or very similar meaning to how it has been used by all the famous Indian gurus when they wrote in English in the twentieth century. It’s really a “translation” into English of a term (referring to a concept) that’s been in use in both Hinduism and Buddhism for well over a thousand years. It means something quite different from Freud’s “ego”. It has been a very major and extremely familiar “concept” within ancient Eastern spiritual traditions for a very long time indeed.

I don’t know if you’re aware of the fact that the subconscious and unconscious were discovered and developed in the ancient East well over a thousand years ago, if not several thousand years or more. I also once came across an academic researcher’s claim that Freud “discovered” the notion of the subconscious and unconscious from his study of ancient Eastern psychology. You might like to take a look at, for instance, early volumes of the Journal of Comparative Philosophy. Incidentally, in the world of academic philosophy it’s generally acknowledged that certain periods in ancient Indian and Chinese philosophy reached a greater level of conceptual sophistication than anything in Western philosophy before the twentieth century. (Incidentally, ancient Eastern philosophy was essentially inseparable from ancient Eastern psychology -- so I'd say the latter also reached extraordinarily sophisticated heights.)

Furthermore this kind of discussion becomes quite complicated, because we are essentially pulling apart different aspects from within the abstract realm of the mind. The mind seems to be the source of it all, and unless one has done some 'inner work' (meditation, careful introspection, etc), it is impossible to make such distinctions.

I don't know how much of the thread you've read, but I've actually said a number of times that (as far as I'm concerned) the thread isn't intended for everybody, but only for those willing to engage in work on themselves.

One common theme I've noticed from many members here when discussing 'inner work', is the recognition that there seems to be a foreign influence. At the very least, a 'brand' of thought patterns which are not constructive to the individual but often destructive. These are what I have come to regard as the Ego. Like Finefeather said, it agrees with the bad judgements of the self, to bring one down, while simultaneously agreeing with the good so as to aggrandize and inflate the self to unhealthy proportion.

Thus, I have regarded the ego as, essentially, the enemy.

I would say I know in advance that that won't entirely work. "The enemy" is something that must by definition be very strongly resisted, yes? But whatever you resist, you get very, very strongly attached to, albeit subconsciously. As the saying goes: "You become whatever you resist." I wonder if you've ever read The Art of War, for instance. I guess I would say at the very least you're making things much harder for yourself than necessary. Sorry to see what I regard as unnecessary suffering. But if you truly, honestly believe it's working for you really well, I can't argue with that.

Please correct me if I'm wrong on this (these are my current truths but I would not be so bold as to assert them as ultimate truths), but what I end up having then, is a model of the mind which has three separate sources of thought. Ego, Observer, and Higher Self.

As far as I understand, the position of the mainstream traditions in both Hinduism and Buddhism is that something that is sometimes called "the Witness" or "the Observer" is indeed the Higher Self.

Does anyone here have interactions with 'HS' that go beyond intuition/inspiration?

You bet they do! For instance, AwakeInADream recently mentioned he has at least glimpsed Source. I've more than glimpsed it, as have quite a few members I can think of. But at the moment I'm concerned with talking about what's involved in beginning to experience the HS rather than more "advanced" issues.

Am I wrong in considering this [destructive] influence the ego?

What I see as the central issue is learning how to minimise the ego's influence on one's more important choices. Once you have minimised that influence, those of its effects which are destructive get transformed into something constructive. Declaring the ego to be one's hated enemy seems to me to make as much sense as seeking "peace" through war (or through one more "war to end all wars"). Neurosis means "split" in Greek -- though the concept of course goes back millenia to Eastern psychology originally. Fighting tooth and nail against the ego sounds to me like a neurotic way to do things, when more subtle means are at hand.

[AwakeInADream]

Hi TH! If I may go back to absolute basics, I have 'meditated' for over 10 years, but after reading the description in The Bhagavad Gita I realized that I've never actually achieved the state of true meditation even once. I get the impression that you only need to get it right just once in order to achieve Nirvana/Union. The experience I had of source came within a dream, so I can't really say I've achieved that consciously whist awake, but I still consider it a taste.

Here is a link to the description in the Gita:http://www.santosha.com/philosophy/gita-chapter6.html
(I could probably have found a better translation...)

I guess in this context it would be correct to have Source as the supreme goal in place of Krishna/Brahman? (same thing?)

Can you give us a description of what right meditation is to you? And does it relate to this?

I don't think it's been a waste of time all these years, regularly stilling my mind. I just don't think I can rightly call it meditation.

P.S. I don't mean to drag dogma into this thread, I know that genuine experience is the most important thing. I just want to see how it all relates, and get some practical advice.

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by Freed Fox (here)
Now to be a bit more on-topic;

Is there any true distinction between OBE and lucid dreams? I've been thinking about it sort of as a gradient of consciousness/awareness, ascending like so:

Dream ---> Lucid Dream ---> OBE

Exactly right. But the distinction between a lucid dream and an OBE in lower to mid 4D seems to me to be very slight. After all, you've had a "lucid dream" if you remember waking up before or during the dream, while it's an OBE if you remember being awake the whole time from when you separated from the physical to when you returned.

Up until, perhaps one year ago, whenever I would have a lucid dream it was the same practically every time. In the midst of a normal dream I would suddenly realize I was dreaming, and virtually the very next moment I would take off and start flying. These were always such amazing experiences... truly exhilarating, because I wouldn't just float up and drift around, but shoot up into the sky at high speed. I would get a strong 'roller coaster' sensation in my gut, but it was much more enjoyable than a roller coaster to me because I was moving freely and in control of my movements. I always felt fortunate when I awoke from one of these, and as I mentioned I've had perhaps a dozen or more.

Now, within perhaps the past year, I've only lucid dreamed two or three times. A marked difference with these is that I don't gain that instant control and freedom anymore. I distinctly remember a LD I had last week in which I went lucid and attempted to fly, only to float off of the ground a few feet. It was as though something was weighing me down...

Something was holding you back. That something was either some kind of attachment to the physical, or to your physical urges or needs, or else to some kind of negative thought or attitude relating to going OB; or it could mean you ate a meal less than three hours before going to sleep.

The second 'trend', may not be frequent enough yet to consider a trend. It goes back to the act of looking into the mirror that I mentioned in my OBE post. IIRC, I've had two dreams since then in which I gazed into a mirror in an attempt to go OOB. I mentioned in the aforementioned post that my face became grotesque, looking as though I had suffered from severe over-exposure to the sun. In these more recent dreams (which did not result in OBE), my face became blotted very darkly in a few places. It had the appearance almost like I was badly bruised, only the patches were almost solid black and shifted as though a fluid underneath my skin. Perhaps this is meaningless, but I find it strange that my face always has some unpleasant appearance when I do this...

What I would say to anyone who had that dream is, it means you don't want to accept your dark side, maybe even that it exists and how it affects you. I guess your dark side is virtually the same thing as your ego. There was some discussion of the dark side in some early posts, such as #64 and #65, for instance.

[Finefeather]

Posted by Freed Fox (here)

Is there any true distinction between OBE and lucid dreams? I've been thinking about it sort of as a gradient of consciousness/awareness, ascending like so:

Dream ---> Lucid Dream ---> OBE

Hi Freed Fox
You are quite right...
My experience of this is that OBE and Lucid dreams are the same thing. The distinction is more to with the state you are in and your ability to bring the information back to your conscious mind when awake.
Most people think that OBE is getting out of your body and wondering around the neighborhood, flying around and meeting up with people...returning to your body and remembering what took place.
Well exactly the same thing happens in Lucid Dreams, the difference is that in a Lucid dream you are in a higher dimensional/vibratory state. What this means is that you are in a 'higher body'.
There are many different states we are able to operate in...remember we are multidimensional. Everyone dreams but not everyone can fully bring that dream back. You may have had the experience where as you are about to fully wake up you seem to be remembering a dream quite well and then as you become more fully awake it sort of fades from your consciousness...well this is because the OBE experience was in a higher dimension to say, one closer to physical like the Astral state.
Meditation and HS connection broadens your awareness of, or connection to, these higher states and that makes it easier to remember Lucid dreams. This is the whole point about OBE and connecting with your HS...you are able to get the bigger picture of exactly who you are and your tremendous capabilities.

Take care
Ray

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by AwakeInADream (here)
Hi TH! If I may go back to absolute basics, I have 'meditated' for over 10 years, but after reading the description in The Bhagavad Gita I realized that I've never actually achieved the state of true meditation even once. I get the impression that you only need to get it right just once in order to achieve Nirvana/Union. The experience I had of source came within a dream, so I can't really say I've achieved that consciously whist awake, but I still consider it a taste.

Here is a link to the description in the Gita:http://www.santosha.com/philosophy/gita-chapter6.html
(I could probably have found a better translation...)

I guess in this context it would be correct to have Source as the supreme goal in place of Krishna/Brahman? (same thing?)

Can you give us a description of what right meditation is to you? And does it relate to this?

I don't think it's been a waste of time all these years, regularly stilling my mind. I just don't think I can rightly call it meditation.

P.S. I don't mean to drag dogma into this thread, I know that genuine experience is the most important thing. I just want to see how it all relates, and get some practical advice.

It would be pretty hard to experience Source unless you were in a higher D than the physical, so there's no point discounting your experience of Source just because you were in a dream state at the time.

Practical advice? What is it going to take to get you to stop discounting yourself, and whatever you experience?

May I suggest, with all due respect, that it's your mind that wants to "see how it all relates"? Until "you perfectly see how it all relates", or until this, or until that occurs, you evidently believe in advance that you'll be inadequate. At least, your ego has you convinced that you're not deserving, that you're not valuable enough. You simply have to somehow feel your way back to the original cause of this self-dislike, and face it. Also, you could practice positively liking yourself, or at least honestly admiring the positive qualities you have -- such as high intelligence, sensitivity, and so on. Practicing the exercise in #114 might help until it "clicks" for you that feeling good about being alive is the same thing as liking yourself -- but please don't try to nut that one out, just feel it when it eventually comes.

Apart from that, you've managed to find the most extraordinarily eloquent chapter that describes just about everything regarding how the ego, the HS and Source are related to each other, and what to do to get there, even to Source. Then you make the strange claim -- which I can't fully make sense of -- that you've never meditated "properly". All I can say is you're meditating properly just in the act of sitting down for meditation with the right attitude (which definitely excludes having any "goal", other than to totally accept everything).

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by OOO (here)
Wow these last few post have some profound insight. Thank you.
I would like to add what I discovered, its so simplistic it escaped me.
ASK -- Its important to ask your HS for help as it cannot interfere
With your free will to learn and experience. Ask and demand that
Which you desire, wish, want.....and expect an answer that at first
Is very subtle...but with time gains "loudness".

Ask and demand to be the driver of that car and never for a moment
DOUBT your abilities.

Thank you everyone.

One thing I do, which seems to work for everyone, is as follows. Before going somewhere (to work, visiting, shopping, whatever), I do the following.

1. I say in my head: “My Higher Self (OR: the Light of my Higher Self) is protecting me now in every way.” I do my best to feel the “energy” of all that healing Light, but it doesn’t seem to matter if you can’t feel anything – this still works, as long as yo0ur intention is strong.

2. I say in my head: “My Higher Self (OR: the Light of my Higher Self) is healing me now in regard to anything to do with while I am at (work/the shops/a friend’s/etc) today or traveling there and back.” Again, be open to the healing Light and hold a strong intention.

3. Repeat 1., and you can also add that the Light will continue to protect you throughout whatever period.

You need to use present tense because at a deeper level the mind only knows the present tense.

Works for me. For some reason, the HS never says no to doing this each time.
You're right, Aleksandra.

[AwakeInADream]

Wow! Higher Self works fast! Thanks TraineeHuman, and to everyone here! for recent discussions on this thread I've made some real progress. Some of my more unconscious limiting beliefs have been made conscious, but it took a dream to really drive it home.

Since I mentioned the reccuring dream I've had all my life of a driver-less car in post#525, I've just had a dream in which I was the driver! Right from the start too.

I'll describe what I did before I went to sleep first because I think it helped to make the dream happen. I just felt the need to set the right intention before I made a real effort to meditate, so I did the feeling the aliveness exercise from post#114 and held on to that feeling, and then I did the modified version of post#24 where you don't ask a question. Then this sense of HS became my effortless focus, and after a while, after witnessing my thoughts fade away, whilst I didn't see or hear anything, I started to feel that something was happening. I got impressions that were like seeing without vision, and knowing something. I can't really describe it, so I'll stop trying, but I could certainly get used to it.

Anyway, that's when I started to get really tired, as if HS was saying I might better understand these impressions in a dream. So I went to sleep and had a long and complex dream where many of my issues were brought up to the surface, some of which I hadn't even considered consciously. I won't bore you with all the details, but I will describe the sequence where I found myself in the drivers seat, because it was quite profound, and I felt like I was in that moment, actually acting as HS.

So I was driving a car, and I look to my left and notice I have a passenger. If I was HS then I'm guessing that the passenger was my personality (based on what was said too), plus there was no one in the back seat (so no ego around).

Then I spoke (as HS) to the passenger, saying "I don't mind teaching you all of my wisdom, but remember...I will always have the heart (to use it)".

This really amazed me, but it took me a while to even understand what had happened after I woke up, I had to get my brain into gear.

After that I slammed on the breaks and brought the car to a sudden halt, as if just to emphasize my control.

I'll briefly touch up on another part of the dream that involved me stealing money that had been thrown away anyway. It made me realize, that whilst I am an honest man and would never steal, I don't have to steal anything to feel guilty about it. I seem to feel a kind of guilt simply from having the temptation within me even if I don't act upon it, or ever having been tempted in the past. It sounds dumb doesn't it (and it is dumb) that I would punish myself for something I haven't even done. I'm glad this has been brought to the surface.

I've realized now that the best way to get a really thorough, detailed and life enhancing response from HS (in my case at least), is to dream it. Also that these dreams are of more value than I've previously given them credit for. I think that connecting to HS before you go to sleep really helps you to get a good one. It makes interpretation easier too.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Posted by AwakeInADream (here)

Since I mentioned the reccuring dream I've had all my life of a driver-less car in post#525, I've just had a dream in which I was the driver! Right from the start too.

This is similar to recurring dreams I had as a child. I was in a car driven by someone invisible. Somehow I knew that I was safe and would never get hurt. But I still was annoyed that I was not the driver. Those dreams disappeared years ago.

A recurring dream I have now is being at the top of very tall building, looking down from the top and being very cautious about falling. The other is me driving a car, too fast, and the brakes are defective, or I am driving too fast and falling asleep at the wheel.

Maybe HS will answer a request for clarification while I am dreaming.

It would be really nice to have a conscious partnership with HS. Hopefully it will happen soon.

[TraineeHuman]

That's great to hear, Awake. It's a very good sign that you've been able to interpret apparently the entire long dream, and are very willing to apply all the insights from your HS and make them practical and real.

The HS is formless, so it's not really odd that you had impressions that were "like seeing without vision".

One small comment. In any dimension above the physical, money is symbolic of wisdom or life-"energy". May I suggest that perhaps the "money" was "thrown away" by your HS for you to find and use, so you weren't stealing it at all. Rather, through the dream your HS was trying to point out that you feel non-deserving and guilty about being who you really are. Maybe kind of like somebody who's a giant but they feel they don't deserve to speak louder than in a soft whisper.

[AwakeInADream]

Thanks TH! Boy there was a lot of money! Thrown away in the trash. LOL. I had a desire to return it but it was too late. So it really is mine afterall! Nice!

Edit: Hi RMaurerSr! There is no 'hopefully' about it, it will happen soon! It will, it will, it will! Stay possitive.

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by rmauersr (here)
A recurring dream I have now is being at the top of very tall building, looking down from the top and being very cautious about falling. The other is me driving a car, too fast, and the brakes are defective, or I am driving too fast and falling asleep at the wheel.

Ron, although I don’t know anything about you other than that you’re the “senior” Ron, I’d like to suggest what part of the meaning of your dream may be, based on my experiences of dream interpreting.

Your HS is saying that you’ve already been extremely ambitious and pushed yourself extremely hard, and you’ve reached lofty heights by doing so. But now, in a sense you’re stuck. If you try even harder, it’ll just be more of the same. You need to in some sense relax more now, and not worry about trying so hard. In fact, you need to stop trying so hard now, because you won't be able to handle it so well. You’ve already done all that hard work, and you’ve achieved things that certainly deserve admiration from everyone. But now it’s time to drop it and go off on some sort of tangent from all that, so to speak. I hope this makes sense.

[TraineeHuman]

The ego is almost the same thing as a person’s dark side. That’s because the ego relies on staying out of our conscious awareness much of the time. As long as it stays in the dark of our subconscious, hiding in the cracks and anywhere else we don’t normally look, it’s very hard or impossible to pin down. And if we can’t pin it down and see specifically how it’s pulling the strings of our behavior that are its own creation, we can’t transform it. This is all complicated a little by the fact that, as Finefeather has pointed out, the ego is indeed a part of ourselves.

It’s been mentioned early on in the thread how a favorite tactic of the ego’s is the “roller-coaster” strategy. Sometimes it pulls a person’s strings to make them excited, or overcome by their desires. Then after a few days or so it withdraws. It even tries to encourage the individual to feel boredom or meaninglessness then.

One advantage of astral travel is that we may see a significant part of the ego in the 4D world. There it will usually look as though it’s separate from us, and like it’s causing us suffering. And indeed it is causing us suffering, but in 4D we may get a picture of what that part of our ego is like, what sort of identity it likes to use.

Ultimately we need to get the ego to agree to the transformation. So, we need to find ways to so to speak reach and dig into our subconscious and bring all the parts of the ego into the light, one after the other. It’s not as difficult as it may sound, because, at least in my understanding, the HS actually does most of the work. But we need to agree to the digging inside of us where it’s not comfortable, and to be ruthlessly honest. Without such honesty, the whole “digging and releasing” activity can be sabotaged. And (as far as I know) it’s necessary for us to keep unraveling the thread of who we are, of what the real truth about ourselves is. Only by seeing it can we change it to something more favorable, if indeed it is unfavorable. There are also treasures inside us.

Ultimately the ego has to undergo experiencing wholesale rejection – and to capitulate to that because it can see that there’s no other option. It’s not a rejection like: “You are my despised enemy,” but like: “I can’t go on a day longer having you as my partner.” Rejection, the ultimate “button”, the ultimate emotional death. Not that the ego then dies so much as it gives up control over itself. But we need to get to that turning point, and we only get there step by step – but the steps can be very big, if we’re really determined.

[kirolak]

Very interesting about the HS involvement! Hope you don't mind my intervening in this thread, just to mention that my first intentional OBE was via the use of mantras from the SAW Gnostic school; mantras I did not entirely "believe in", but which definitely worked for me. I also "petitioned my Being" in accordance with their instructions; possibly one's Being is different terminology for HS. I found meditation to be the greatest help, along with frequent walks in the mountains. However, when I moved house 2 years ago I found myself "on lock down", & have had only a few, desultory experiences since then.

I have never had any success with the "rope" technique, or even with Michael Raduga's indirect methods. I don't know what's changed or why, I miss being able to cavort in the astral. I've never had a truly scary experience; & am not in the least nervous about it, for some reason - even to the extent of asking an unseen "helper" (who was trying to pull me out of the body by the feet) to pull harder!

[TraineeHuman]

Hi, kilorak. When I first tried to learn astral travel, using a mantra was the only way I knew how to get relaxed properly, or temporarily free myself from the mind’s activity. It worked for me, as it had for you. For me at first maybe only 20% or 30% of the time, but then over 50%. Then it took me a while to get over the fear once I got out. Which was weird, because in the first four years of my life I’d had sometimes a close relationship with nature spirits, and would often effortlessly meet them in 4D but I kind of didn’t consider it strange at that age, because I didn’t know “better”.

I then learnt how to astral travel every night when I was around 27. Usually I’d wake up and go lucid, and usually use the silver cord to help me navigate around – like the trail of breadcrumbs in the forest in the story. From about then and for four or five years after, I’d absolutely revel in the delight of flying. It was so delicious it’s impossible to describe. When I was 28 I had a very aware girlfriend and would spend quite a few hours making ego-free love to her astral body with mine, long after the physical event, and she'd often be aware of it too throughout. But even that wasn’t as sweet as the pure joy of just flying. Then I started to spend more time traveling into higher dimensions than the fourth. They were just more interesting, and there were more satisfying things in life than pleasure alone. In fact, I’ve eventually learnt that getting excited isn’t what it’s really all about. But anyway, for all the above reasons it was time for me to move on, and I’m wondering if maybe it was also your time to do so, though presumably for different reasons. I moved on even though I had an unquenchable thirst to astral travel to other planets to drink in any spiritual knowledge) of the "white" variety) they were willing to teach me. Then I used astral travel to go healing people or giving them therapy or other help each night -- initially on the other side of the world. Today I still use OB states to do some things like that, but I get OB so fast there's no time to look at scenery, and I kind of take the whole OB thing for granted. It's become ordinary, at least at levels like 4D and 5D.

I’ve come across the term Being, or Essence, to mean the HS. The name isn’t important, it’s what action we take to cultivate the relationship.

[Finefeather]

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
One thing I do, which seems to work for everyone, is as follows. Before going somewhere (to work, visiting, shopping, whatever), I do the following.

1. I say in my head: “My Higher Self (OR: the Light of my Higher Self) is protecting me now in every way.” I do my best to feel the “energy” of all that healing Light, but it doesn’t seem to matter if you can’t feel anything – this still works, as long as yo0ur intention is strong.

2. I say in my head: “My Higher Self (OR: the Light of my Higher Self) is healing me now in regard to anything to do with while I am at (work/the shops/a friend’s/etc) today or traveling there and back.” Again, be open to the healing Light and hold a strong intention.

3. Repeat 1., and you can also add that the Light will continue to protect you throughout whatever period.

You need to use present tense because at a deeper level the mind only knows the present tense.

Works for me. For some reason, the HS never says no to doing this each time.
You're right, Aleksandra.

Hi All
This reminds me when I was just starting off and trying to get to grips with this 'sultry devil', the ego...I used to write notes to myself and they were in every room...in my bathroom, bedroom and even in my car. I basically wrote notes reminding me each morning that I had a mission that day...and that was to be mindful of what I said to people and how I treated them...my attitude was the big thing I found which changed slowly until I did'nt need the noted anymore.

I grew up in the age of the atrocity of the apartheid era in South Africa and I can assure you it was extremely difficult to be nice to black people...because most white people were quite racist in those days. I seemed to be quite blind to color and often had to watch what I said to whites because you were looked at as a betrayer of the white race. I secretly used to meet with black and Chinese friends I had...Chinese were also classed as non-white...had run-ins with the police as well. As time went by I made a radical decision..."to hell with the law and to the racist". It is a great hurt in your heart when you see humans been treated like animals. This experience did a lot to help me discover the HS...and the cruelty and unfairness which the ego can draw us into.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that we often are locked into the thinking of our parents and friends and cultures and this can be a great deterrent in the discovery of the beauty which is present in us all. It often takes great commitment and will to lay down our past and seek a new beginning in our attitudes to those around us. It becomes a kind of death of the ego, and can be preceded by pain and turmoil in our minds when we need to come to terms with possibly losing friends or members of the family, or our whole old identity, for the sake of truth and love in our lives.

This is what happened to me and I found myself in great inner conflict and my 'dark night of the soul' lasted for quite a few months, until one day I just woke up, and it was not long after that that I experienced my crown chakra opening...this experience was so overwhelming that it took me weeks to settle down. Since that day, 40 years ago, my life has been dedicated to serving others and my Soul/HS has been in my life daily and constantly...it is a feeling of great humility and joy...everything around you and everyone you meet and are with becomes a picture of the love that we are surrounded in...truly breathtaking at times...just what are we waiting for?...when all it takes is to remove the mask which has been hiding our true natures all this time...the dear old ego.

Take care and much love to all
Ray

[Jake]

FreedFox said:

However, if lucid dreams truly are the same thing, then it appears that I've had more than I thought.

Try to keep in mind that many dreams,,, lucid or not,, are OBE's that we are remembering via the dream-states. The largest obsticle when practicing toward OBE (other than FEAR) is MEMORY!!! There are many reasons that we do not remember OBE's... Have you ever been laying there after waking from a sleep and contemplated your dream,,, just to have the memory of it slip away, ,, right before you??? OBE memory is much more fickle... Your 'dreaming mind' is fighting for 'memory space' that would otherwise be filled with a fully conscious OBE!! Different aspects of self are operating simultaniously,, although we can mostly hold the memory of only one aspect at a time. To make matters more confusing,,, the memories are all processed through our limited human belief systems...

Gotta go...

Jake.

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by Finefeather (here)
I grew up in the age of the atrocity of the apartheid era in South Africa and I can assure you it was extremely difficult to be nice to black people...because most white people were quite racist in those days. I seemed to be quite blind to color and often had to watch what I said to whites because you were looked at as a betrayer of the white race. I secretly used to meet with black and Chinese friends I had...Chinese were also classed as non-white...had run-ins with the police as well. As time went by I made a radical decision..."to hell with the law and to the racist". It is a great hurt in your heart when you see humans been treated like animals. This experience did a lot to help me discover the HS...and the cruelty and unfairness which the ego can draw us into.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that we often are locked into the thinking of our parents and friends and cultures and this can be a great deterrent in the discovery of the beauty which is present in us all. It often takes great commitment and will to lay down our past and seek a new beginning in our attitudes to those around us. It becomes a kind of death of the ego, and can be preceded by pain and turmoil in our minds when we need to come to terms with possibly losing friends or members of the family, or our whole old identity, for the sake of truth and love in our lives.

This is what happened to me and I found myself in great inner conflict and my 'dark night of the soul' lasted for quite a few months, until one day I just woke up, and it was not long after that that I experienced my crown chakra opening...this experience was so overwhelming that it took me weeks to settle down. Since that day, 40 years ago, my life has been dedicated to serving others and my Soul/HS has been in my life daily and constantly...it is a feeling of great humility and joy...everything around you and everyone you meet and are with becomes a picture of the love that we are surrounded in...truly breathtaking at times...just what are we waiting for?...when all it takes is to remove the mask which has been hiding our true natures all this time...the dear old ego.

I went through a similar thing at a similar age, Ray. Not because of racism, which wasn't such a big public issue at that time where I was living. But I felt similarly compelled to totally reject the kind of society I was living in. Little did I realize that most of what I considered "me" came totally from that society, so I was cancelling the old "me".

And yes, experiencing union with Source certainly left a feeling of great empowerment. When you're so hugely empowered inside, it's unthinkable not to want to make helping and contributing to humanity be the center of your life, one way or another.

As time went by, I would find myself repeating something that resembled that journey, but in miniature. Mostly it came down to finding more and more different ways to put myself (the ego, that is) out of my (its) comfort zone. For more than five years, for instance, I survived through cold selling, mostly in my own business. That did wonders for getting rid of a considerable amount of shyness.

When you first take the plunge into the discomfort zone, it feels like all hell has broken loose and is targetting you, and that everything you do is wrong and stupid and mostly fails. But most of that is the ego working on your subconscious, "arguing" that you need to give up this foolishness. So you don't give up (unless it's genuinely sensible to do so), and all that part of the ego that was interested in those obstacles has to drop off, never to bother you again if you persist in going on.

It also helps to go into the discomfort zone to do things that are directly of service to others, because that seems to make it easier for the HS to get involved.

No matter if it's many years later, this process still goes on. "Life" continually throws one into new discomfort zones if one isn't going into them voluntarily anyway. I guess we could and do sometimes run away or pretend it isn't happening, but what's the point of that?

[TraineeHuman]

The way to “hear” the HS is by looking, not by thinking.

Admittedly, you need to get the ego calmed down at the time – which you can largely do by grounding yourself properly and being quiet and calm beforehand. The ego will still probably manage to inject something into what you “get” from the HS, but over all at least the initial impressions you get will mostly be accurate and true.

For quite a few years I used to have spiritual teachers insisting that I already knew the answers to most questions I was asking. Yet I could clearly see I didn’t know that I knew. Then it dawned on me that when the HS gives information it does it out of the blue, in the sense that you open your mouth and the right words just come out. You can’t grasp at what the HS is going to say. It’s much too slippery, too unpindownable for that.

We’re taught that imagination leads to fantasy. But provided the ego has been quieted, whatever we imagine will actually be (part of) the truth, truth we often might never be able to reach through using our intellect. Imagination involves direct “looking”, not thinking.

It seems as though the HS may use pictures or symbols to communicate to us in our dreams. But strictly speaking, what the HS does is just to point, and then we fill in the details.