Metaphysics:Where Science and Spirituality Meet

[PurpleLama]

Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
How do you see emotional baggage or traumas accumulating in relation to emotional body?

UT

I see wrong thoughts misleading the emotive aspect which in turn presses into the physical over time, hence mental/emotional imbalances often leading into very physical illnesses. This underlies the old, Physician Heal Thyself, for without health one can not heal.

[Carmody]

Posted by PurpleLama (here)
At eighteen years I discovered Robert A. Wilson, and his concept of circuits, the higher being the circuit of the programmer. Such information inspired the disentanglement of my own circuitry, and the re-assembly thereof, in a more logical seeming arrangement. Every few years it's been taken apart and put back together, and I cannot overstate the value, the richness, I've experienced, knowing and changing my own "mind". I've come to see similar concepts to those R. Wilson used within various other spiritual/magical teaching, although my own perspective seems to have become more abstract in dealing with the mental constructs, the idea of circuits as he presented holds a special place in my heart. For anyone interested, it's is in the book Prometheus Rising, although I'd put it together from his various other writings before I encountered that book. I have found that the perspective he promoted leads to a certain detachment from the process that's ever helpful during such endeavors.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...41248874,d.eWU

Yes, I did my first higher self originated and consciously remembered and connected 're-wire' at age 18, as well. It's called, to some extent, the 'nodal return', that the north and south node of the dragon or moon's position in relation to the earth...reaches the exact same degree/angle as it did at your birth. That the doorway energies (vibrational note- or expanded window with the correct vectoral polarizations) are the same as the moment of birth.

Energetic spiral in, energetic spiral out, in time and dimension, due to the moon's motion around the earth, which is an externally applied pressure, due to the earth and moon actually being pressure and flow disturbances in a highly pressurized multi-dimensional/multi-temporal field.

[Ultima Thule]

I hope Modwiz won´t mind usage of his thread, I however thought that my question might be fitting to be asked here - it´s about the science of spirituality imo.

As my mind was wondering this morning, it came up with the idea or revelation that propably humans as a species was not originally equipped with a re-incarnating soul, but instead soul was of later addition. I would furthermore think that let´s say chimpanzees propably don´t yet have a soul, but might at one point be upgraded to having one? These are just my wild thoughts, so I wellcome you who know or have insight regarding this to answer the following questions:

a. am I right in assuming that we as a species didn´t originally come out of the factory equipped with a soul?
b. am I right in assuming that at some point we got upgraded to be soul-carriers?
c. if I am right, who did the upgrade? God, ETs, progenitors(whoever they are), etc..
d. when was the upgrade done?
e. could the upgrade of the soul be the very thing we are still trying to come up to terms with? i.e. Intellect/emotion of the biological body(perhaps even termed as ego?) vs intellect/emotion of the soul(wisdom/uncoscious etc.)

I am looking forward to hearing something about this, I am absolutely sure that there are individuals that have clear knowledge of these matters. I know there have been discussions regarding progenitors etc. in here, but for some reason I´m interested (at least at first) in these simple questions.
Simple to ask, possibly not simple to answer...

UT

[Shin'Ar]

Posted by Ultima Thule (here)

As my mind was wondering this morning, it came up with the idea or revelation that propably humans as a species was not originally equipped with a re-incarnating soul, but instead soul was of later addition. I would furthermore think that let´s say chimpanzees propably don´t yet have a soul, but might at one point be upgraded to having one?

a. am I right in assuming that we as a species didn´t originally come out of the factory equipped with a soul?
b. am I right in assuming that at some point we got upgraded to be soul-carriers?
c. if I am right, who did the upgrade? God, ETs, progenitors(whoever they are), etc..
d. when was the upgrade done?
e. could the upgrade of the soul be the very thing we are still trying to come up to terms with? i.e. Intellect/emotion of the biological body(perhaps even termed as ego?) vs intellect/emotion of the soul(wisdom/uncoscious etc.)

Hey there UT,

This of course just my two cents worth,

As always individual definition and interpretation is key here. To speak on such things there is a need to for some consensus on exactly what we mean by 'soul'. Because this is the topic which has been struggled over for countless eons.

It sounds like what you are referring to is more 'awareness' than what most people would define as 'soul'.

Most people define soul as their own 'spiritual identity'; the me within the form, if you will, or the ghost in the attic. Such thinking continues well into higher stages of enlightenment and manifests as various philosophies and speculations.

But at some point a person begins to realize that there is something deeper and more universal than their own self identity, which is somehow attached to that which they had always thought to be soul. And this is where an awareness of The One Consciousness and The All begins to increase, and the old ways of thinking as an individual identity begin to diminish.

In my opinion, I like to think of the soul as the actual fire within our forms that establishes this awareness and ability to interact with creation. This has nothing to do with individual identity, as that is temporary, and reincarnating in many various identities throughout the existence of the soul/fire.

This tweaking or unnatural upgrade that you speak of commonly points to what many are recently discovering with regards to the early 'gods' of human remembrance. There are many tales and legends referring to them and it is far more likely that they were beings of a higher state of evolution than most humans.

But what was upgraded was not the soul, but rather the genetics of the forms we use.

What was upgraded with regard to knowledge and intelligence was not done through genetic tweaking but was simply the consequence of the information that was brought to us by these higher beings, and our capability to store that data via a larger brain capacity. But, when someone goes to the library and reads and absorbs information offered there, it is not wisdom they acquire but simply massive amounts of data which they store in that brain capacity.

Wisdom is not acquired by the consumption of vast amounts of data. It is acquired through the experienced ability to discern that information according to one's prior experiences, which can then assist in a balancing of that information with the many other sources and offerings they have gathered through their long experience as a soul/fire, in a way beneficial to the furthering of their evolutionary development.

Of course I could be proven wrong at any time and would welcome that.

But to this point in my understanding, which seems based more on unraveling memories and intuitive processing, than on the interpretation of the many opinions and teachings offered by the usual aspects of human society. Which brings me to responding to your final question here,

"e. could the upgrade of the soul be the very thing we are still trying to come up to terms with? i.e. Intellect/emotion of the biological body(perhaps even termed as ego?) vs intellect/emotion of the soul(wisdom/uncoscious etc.)"

The very fact that you are able to discern between the ego and the soul by differentiating between the physical and the spiritual, reveals the true nature of this very upgrading of which you inquire. An upgrading/evolution which cannot be altered by outside interferences. It is beyond genetics. It is beyond destruction. It is however infected and influenced by our environment and subjection.

To answer your question, yes this upgrade is the thing which we effort to come to terms with. But not as some genetic manipulation, rather as the Divine Design by which it evolves naturally. In short, that which we are coming to terms with is our own natural evolving consciousness. The many catalysts which influence that development, are both biological and spiritual, but nothing can cause a cessation of that Process of Being. There are natural laws involved which have been established by The Source of The All which cannot be superseded or evaded, just as we cannot defy gravity or death of temporary form.

There is much that you are coming into an awareness of through this amazing time of mass communication, and if you can manage to always intercede all of that information with intuitive wisdom already established in your soul/fire, field of consciousness, not infringed upon by exterior influences, you will gain in understanding much more harmoniously than if led by the opinions of others via religion or commentary. Use the information, which is relentless and vastly variable, as a spring board to meeting your true 'self', the field of consciousness that you truly are, and then use the information stored there to discern the many fruits which you harvest here.

Come to the naturally irrigated fields of truth as a child, free of conclusions and biased opinion, and gather the harvest as you sample each fruit and vegetable to discern according to your own taste; not so that you can self satisfy and create further self delusions, but so that you can be sure that what you are placing in your basket is not just the tastes offered by others.

Self delusion and self satisfaction is the path to becoming free of that self imprisonment of the true self/soul. But when we allow the delusions of others to be our own imprisonment, then who's path are we really following?

Intuition, the development of spiritual awareness, must be an individual path and that is the difference between the right hand and left hand paths. When one leaves the right hand paths of authority and direction, to embark on the left hand path of the fool/child, they open that doorway/portal to the Inbetween; the reality between the ego and the soul. And that is the doorway to Connection, rather than the doorways which lead to further inclinations of the physical and metaphysical imbalances of extremes of experiencing self as either human or God.

It is always about balance and gathering the fruit found in the Inbetween. To either side of that balance we tend to consider things like a soul being manipulated by ETs, or that we are God ourselves. But such extremes are simply imbalance at opposite ends.

There is much talk about Dragon Blood and how those are of some higher ability to understand truth. That is no different than the claims that the professors of Harvard are far wiser than most other humans, or that a person with a large brain capacity would be wiser than one of smaller capacity.

It should be easily observed within our own family structures, that genetics has nothing to do with wisdom and higher states of discerning.

Just go to any of the Dragon Blood associated sites on the internet and you will see exactly the type of variation of which I speak. There's alot of talk about royal heritage and enhanced intellects, and little about evolving consciousness and wisdom.

[PurpleLama]

The soul/psyche is a necessary element of the incarnaton of spirit into flesh. I will speakt to this at length when I am able, but I will say for now, although in modern times there may be seen much confusion and speculation aroung the subject of the soul, there is an actual truth to be seen, it's not given to individual interpretation and definition. One may choose to disagree with truth, this makes it no more or less true. We may look into the inner planes and see different things, according to the filters of individual consciousness, but those who have done the work to clear the filters will tend to see more and more the same thing. It may be seen that there have been attempts to manipulate our understanding of these things, but this aspect if what we call soul is a sovreign thing, one may manipulate their own connection to creator, but without our agreement arising from the created confusion and suppressed knowledge and understanding of what we truly are, it is not something that is readily tampered with.

[CdnSirian]

Another idea about the soul is the Oversoul - Higher Self (or as a friend of mine loves to say "Higher Elf"). Say for instance that 7B on this planet were indeed run by about 300,000 Oversouls - running their quota of bodies.

As individuals evolved personally could they share this with the others run by their Oversoul? Could this, especially as one gains awareness and control/balance of their EB and MB be sensed/transmitted to their super-significant others?

And also factoring in the idea of parallel rather than linear "past" lives (which means you have future lives too) - would this then not create a Quantum Leap in consciousness?

Then we are about to do a Leap Frog over the heads of those who aren't like us in intent? This could be seen as jumping timelines yet it is a highly intricate dance. It seems we're getting a lot of rehearsals right now and we may do a spectacular job.

(There is a balance in being open to such evolutionary influence, yet keeping the riff-raff out. We have to be our own Doorman and Security).

I caught up to this thread on p.9 today. I want to thank 9E9 for her input on it, and for originally bringing up the topic of the EB on another thread.

[Linda Joy Crutcher]

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
Greetings, Bredren. I was so surprised to see this topic that I had to go to your profile to check and see when the last time you started a topic was.

It was in March of 2012. You start so few topics that when you do, I find it important to pay attention.

This topic is a direct assault against relativism. Against the "New Age Mumbo-Jumbo". Against holism and perhaps also synthesis, which has the word synthetic hidden in it, apropos of artificial, not natural or genuine, contrived.

I have posted consistently regarding the relativity of perception, the need to understand all points of view and allow for them and the perceived underlying unity of religious and spiritual traditions to the extent that they all encompass some fundamental reality, attempt to explain it and provide a pathway forward for those within those traditions, bounded tightly by their cultural parameters which blinker them, create separation and encourage fear-based thinking and being. A perfect cover for you-know-who to divide and conquer, and through so doing, reinforce the culture of pyramidal control. I have found it necessary to write on this topic in particular, here, in order to express the reality that we share more in common than we do apart.

With that said, when it comes down to it, metaphysics is indeed hard work. There was a reason a lot of the information that we possess today was secret. And it was not all because the PTB were in charge and they wanted to keep the truth from the masses. It was because most people were not ready for it. It was because it was and is dangerous. It was because metaphysics was and is the key to true sovereignty and re-integration with the whole.

For those who have an intellectual understanding of metaphysics as some abstract collection of old sayings and directives, of pithy one-liners and amorphous pie-in-the-sky meanderings, spit out by dissipative, meditating lotus-eaters, their characterization of it as such is indicative of the truly staggering and mind-blowing nature of the topic. And it is also indicative of the truth that they themselves have not experienced these deeper waters personally and determined for themselves the truth of the matter, or the fundamental Nowness of their submersion within an illusory format of being that only barely indicates the depth and nature of that which lies beneath.

Words are indeed spells. Sound is power. Vibration is energy in movement. These are fundamental realities of our existence. To cast the power of enunciation of the knowledge of etymology to the 4 winds as if they were no more than gaseous emanations of the bowels and intestines is to disempower self and the inherent power of creation in favor of intellectual masturbation.

Because I want to see where you are going with this, and participate further with greater knowledge of the terrain you're laying out, I will sit back now and eat popcorn for a while. I eagerly await what comes next.

I am again entranced by your words; not to mention that I agree with you completely. Thank you for taking the time to say what I couldn't.

[PurpleLama]

thanks for the bump, LJC.

Mark's (Rahkyt) words, which you quoted above, are erudite as always, and contain much truth, as always. The vibrations and combinations thereof, of the words we make, do indeed imprint the reality we experience.

As a more general statement, if it is agreement with the forum staff, I would like to take over as OP of this thread, this thread has been on my mind as of late, and I'd like to see it continue in the spirit with which it was begun.

[Lisab]

Weirdly (or not so!) this thread has been on my mind too. Good idea Reilly

[Linda Joy Crutcher]

Ah, I have but a simple mind and wonder why so much emphasis is placed on words that really make no difference to anyone except the people who gravitate to them.

Metaphysics or New Age; Enlightenment or Awareness; God or Energy. Isn't it logical that each person accepts the word or words that describe what it is he or she is searching for, and that those words match the acceptance level of the individual?

Someone else's interpretation of anything is completely meaningless if the seeking consciousness is going to be 'shorted out' by it; that results in almost immediate rejection of everything relative to a topic.

Personally, I'd rather seen an integration of the terms Metaphysics and New Age. They both serve to attract people toward the same end: becoming aware of something undiscovered.

Science and spirituality are like saying; mind and love. The emotional body is the whole point of the human experience. Emotionalizing words gives another kind of life to them; a feeling sense (something not understood among many intelligence in the cosmos), and we're more than lucky to be here doing it. There's a clamoring to get into this realm of 'madness'; it is not a common one among the universes according to my understanding.

The words compassion and love are academic, like everything else in mind. We add another element, or greater understanding about those words because of the emotional body. Mind is who we are; emotion in this realm is the challenge, and when we regard it equal to mind and fully integrate with it, we cannot be emotionally controlled.

In my puny brain, all the stuff of science, the cosmos, the vast unknowns are not nearly as fascinating as the human being. This mammal, in my case, is the greatest mystery in the universe, and something tells me when we have Mastery over that, we've hit the jackpot!

[PurpleLama]

Emphasis on words, knowing the original, uncorrupted use of terms is essential, as the misappropriation of meaning is very much interlaced with the very control mechinisms in place, running the matrix below the conscious level which manifests as the reality we in turn experience. The conflation of terms and the ascribing of inappropriate functions, thinking with the heart, etc, is a way in which we are confused, distracted, and thereby led.

[Linda Joy Crutcher]

Posted by REILLY (here)
Emphasis on words, knowing the original, uncorrupted use of terms is essential, as the misappropriation of meaning is very much interlaced with the very control mechinisms in place, running the matrix below the conscious level which manifests as the reality we in turn experience. The conflation of terms and the ascribing of inappropriate functions, thinking with the heart, etc, is a way in which we are confused, distracted, and thereby led.

Essential to whom?

Whatever one says something means is still subject to interpretation by the individual hearing it and people only hear what they can accept. We confound everything; make it our own so that we can absorb it and if we can't do that, we change it to suit our sense of security, or reject it completely. In this realm, people need to feel safe before they venture into the unknown (precisely what integrating with the emotional body is all about); defining words according to what an accepted truth is doesn't guarantee anything. In short, it is the emotional aspect of human nature that causes confusion because we don't understand it and fear letting go. We can talk logic and reason ad nauseam, but if people aren't safe to hear they won't budge regardless of the words we use. Then, it becomes important to use words they can hear; ones that may not be restricted to absolute definitions, so they are safe to open and receive new information.

Did you hear anything I said? I had a hard time hearing you too! Just kidding!

Blessings.

[Michelle Marie]

turiya...I love this:

"Awareness is enough to put an end to a bad dream."

Simple Truth.

Michelle Marie

[Anchor]

Posted by REILLY (here)
As a more general statement, if it is agreement with the forum staff, I would like to take over as OP of this thread, this thread has been on my mind as of late, and I'd like to see it continue in the spirit with which it was begun.

Just steer it anyway

[Anchor]

Posted by Linda Joy Crutcher (here)
Whatever one says something means is still subject to interpretation by the individual hearing it and people only hear what they can accept.

Well, there is one invariant and it is important, which is the intent behind the utterance.

Yes people may misinterpret what you say, but there in lies the subtlety of freewill. We can opt to enter into a discourse and elaborate sufficiently well through questions and answers so that the meaning interpreted by the listener is the same as that intended by the speaker.

Posted by Linda Joy Crutcher (here)
We can talk logic and reason ad nauseam, but if people aren't safe to hear they won't budge regardless of the words we use. Then, it becomes important to use words they can hear; ones that may not be restricted to absolute definitions, so they are safe to open and receive new information.

This of course assumes that what is being said is worth listening to. There are other reasons I may not accept "new information", and it may be that I simply don't agree with what is being said.

Consider:

Person A: Here is some important information about metaphysics that will change your life...
Person B: Whatever
Person A: <delivers monologue>
Person B: Whatever, nods politely

Person B in this scenario may not be in fear. He may in fact just not be interested in what person A thinks is so important, or may in fact know a great deal more than A - lots of possibilities.

vs.

Person B: Hey do you know anything about ritual magic
Person A: Why yes I do ... <delivers monologue>
Person B: Thanks, there is plenty of food for thought there...

In my opinion, the first scenario represents a potential freewill violation - minor since Person B can usually opt to disregard it, or in your scenario recoil from it in fear.

We are all teachers. We are all students. We get to decide when and where. We get to feel great that people are interested in what we have to offer, or deal humbly with the rejection of it. So it goes on. We get to benefit from teachings of others who have more experience of areas of interest to us, and we also get to wade through a lot of information that does not seem interesting to us - or basically non-resonant to our energy.

Posted by Linda Joy Crutcher (here)
Then, it becomes important to use words they can hear; ones that may not be restricted to absolute definitions, so they are safe to open and receive new information

Jesus taught groups of people using parables. In this way, those that had ears to hear and the mind to, could interpret and discern the lessons. Those that did not were free to have their lives unaffected by his transforming love and wisdom. I imagine that when Jesus was with his disciples or one on one with a student, he would have been a lot more direct!

[Mr. Metazoan]

The emotions in our thoughts come from our endocrine system. Hormones in our synapses give us a smile or a frown as the thought is created.

[PurpleLama]

I would put forth some contradiction to your statement, LJC. While some confusion of terms and the interpretation thereof may indeed be intrinsic to our human experience, there is what may be termed True, and while one person may have more or less an understanding of this actuality, and some might describe it one way or another, contrary to popular belief it's not something that each may operate their own version of it, it is what will inherently support itself. A wizard must needs be in pursuit of this element of what is actuat, whether it finds agreement, or understanding, or not, it is what it is.


As for the emotional body and fear, again I must not completely agree, as what we aspire to is the opposite from feeling safe, while I agree that safety is commonly sought, I would say that this is a fell state which can only have value if one is removed fromm their own courage and power. Integration of the emotional body comes not from feeling safe, or not feeling fear, rather it comes from examining every movement of self to know ones own self in total, this includes accepting the very fears you would escape, and knowing the foundations of such uncomfortable emotional constructs, some of which may indeed be made of what need not be feared in the light of awareness, and others of which may be well founded, and should be dealt with not by turning the other way, but by finding within the courage to match, having both the calm and the wisdom to do so.

I am terribly unconcerned that some should fail to see what's gone before in this thread and will continue, because some felt unsafe to do so. One whe needs to feel safe has the emotional body suppressed as opposed to integrated, and may well be led by their own subconscious triggers.

[PurpleLama]

I find it interesting that while you "agree... completely" with Mark, here, you then proceed to disagree with him so, ahem, completely with your every statement after.

Posted by Linda Joy Crutcher (here)

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
Greetings, Bredren. I was so surprised to see this topic that I had to go to your profile to check and see when the last time you started a topic was.

It was in March of 2012. You start so few topics that when you do, I find it important to pay attention.

This topic is a direct assault against relativism. Against the "New Age Mumbo-Jumbo". Against holism and perhaps also synthesis, which has the word synthetic hidden in it, apropos of artificial, not natural or genuine, contrived.

I have posted consistently regarding the relativity of perception, the need to understand all points of view and allow for them and the perceived underlying unity of religious and spiritual traditions to the extent that they all encompass some fundamental reality, attempt to explain it and provide a pathway forward for those within those traditions, bounded tightly by their cultural parameters which blinker them, create separation and encourage fear-based thinking and being. A perfect cover for you-know-who to divide and conquer, and through so doing, reinforce the culture of pyramidal control. I have found it necessary to write on this topic in particular, here, in order to express the reality that we share more in common than we do apart.

With that said, when it comes down to it, metaphysics is indeed hard work. There was a reason a lot of the information that we possess today was secret. And it was not all because the PTB were in charge and they wanted to keep the truth from the masses. It was because most people were not ready for it. It was because it was and is dangerous. It was because metaphysics was and is the key to true sovereignty and re-integration with the whole.

For those who have an intellectual understanding of metaphysics as some abstract collection of old sayings and directives, of pithy one-liners and amorphous pie-in-the-sky meanderings, spit out by dissipative, meditating lotus-eaters, their characterization of it as such is indicative of the truly staggering and mind-blowing nature of the topic. And it is also indicative of the truth that they themselves have not experienced these deeper waters personally and determined for themselves the truth of the matter, or the fundamental Nowness of their submersion within an illusory format of being that only barely indicates the depth and nature of that which lies beneath.

Words are indeed spells. Sound is power. Vibration is energy in movement. These are fundamental realities of our existence. To cast the power of enunciation of the knowledge of etymology to the 4 winds as if they were no more than gaseous emanations of the bowels and intestines is to disempower self and the inherent power of creation in favor of intellectual masturbation.

Because I want to see where you are going with this, and participate further with greater knowledge of the terrain you're laying out, I will sit back now and eat popcorn for a while. I eagerly await what comes next.

I am again entranced by your words; not to mention that I agree with you completely. Thank you for taking the time to say what I couldn't.

[Linda Joy Crutcher]

Well, like I said, I have a simple mind. I interpret what I read according to the mind through which I understand, so there you have it!

Blessings and thanks.

[PurpleLama]

I would suggest that your repeated assertion of mental simplicity is perhaps an unconscious evading of the issue at hand, that being in my view a thought form perhaps designed to keep you from assimilating certain material that may lead to an internal investigation that potentially would reveal a foreign construct in the midst of your waking consciousness. Given your replies above, this is my assessment, however I will qualify my statement by acknowledging the fact that I do not know you, and may be making to broad a statement based on too little evidence. I do not pretend to have the same command of all the material as did the original poster, however I do have my own extensive experiental basis to draw from, and he and I have observed much overlapping between our respective basis for this knowledge. I wish to make it very clear, there is no judgement of you, the person, whatsoever, but that which has elsewhere been classified as "their mind" and the thought forms that may support it will receive no support from me. I invite you to see the contradiction I observed above, that you agreed with Mark only to disagree in another post soon after, and what this observation may imply. I believe you may find your courage, to live without fear or the need for safety, by such examination.