The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

[Freed Fox]

Awake: That was an interesting lucid dream, thank you for sharing. The part about becoming female, and the 'final boss' being a hermaphroditic figure... well, this might be totally off, but something came across my mind regarding that... "Source" is, in essence, formless and all encompassing. All life stems from it, and most of that life that we observe is divided between male and female, so hypothetically speaking, if Source ever took human form it would feasibly be both at once would it not?

Trainee: I want to say a couple of things in response to your post #820, but in no way wanting to be contentious about it. I don't want to take away from what you're saying, particularly in that there truly are various misconceptions and misapplications of both positive thinking and what some term 'love', which often ends up being somewhat of an ego-driven illusion or delusion. Those are points well made, and hard truths to face.

However, I don't believe that individuality and/or personability are always attached to the dramatic, or lead to such. I have been blessed to know a few individuals who fly right in the face of that notion. People who were strongly individual and not at all detached, but also not seeking to exploit or dramatize or inflate themselves in any given situation.

It may come down to different internalized meanings behind the concept of being 'detached', but I also believe that true love does not depend upon that condition. This is coming from someone who has felt love for others, but has never been in a romantic relationship of any sort... Yet I believe in this. I fully agree that it should be non-judgmental, and as unbiased as possible, but I get tripped up at the notion of total detachment in that regard. Again, it could be a matter of definition, or it could be my own naivety... Certainly Higher Selves have a great many commonalities, but they are essentially a middle ground between us and Source, so is it not possible that they have some degree of individuality themselves? Could it not be that your HS is simply more impersonal than others, as that is something which lies at the core of your being?

Please don't consider this a challenge... that would be fairly rude to do when this is your thread we're discussing on, after all. I know that is not my intent, but one can never anticipate exactly how their written words will be received on the other side... (then again, you are quite in control of your ego, so I am probably worrying over nothing ).

Thank you, and everyone else for the ongoing contributions. This should certainly be a 'Priority Thread' if you ask me.

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by AwakeInADream (here)
Next thing I fall asleep and go into the strangest lucid dream I've ever had (I've said that before LOL). To start off with I see my Father in the after life and I can hear him talking very clearly, every word crystal clear. Only he doesn't know I'm listening in. He's there drowning his sorrows (he was an alcoholic) and he's telling all of his troubles to another man that's there. They are both sat down, and this other man keeps pouring him more drinks and encouraging him to speak and let it all out. Now my Dad can't see me, but this other guy is acting really shifty, he knows I'm there and at one point he comes up to me and whispers something nasty into my ear to let me know it. I feel a really sinister presence from him and get the sense that he's manipulating my Dad, and persuading him to drink more. It was like he was my Fathers internal voice, pushing him on, and I got the feeling that this man was the 'Demon Drink' personified, perhaps even 'addiction' itself. A real comic book villian.

The whole dream went on for a very long time (maybe over an hour) and so the memory of most of it has faded, but generally things got darker and darker from there on in. It seemed to me that as the dream went on I saw the ego personified in every conceivable way in grotesque detail by hundreds of different characters. This could easily have been my worst nightmare if I didn't feel so empowered and in control, and this does reflect how my new perspective in life has me somewhat distanced from the world of ego and unaffected by it. I think I'm becoming the Higher Self more and more, but the take over is so subtle and gradual that I'm hardly noticing it....

Anyway, the next thing that happened was that suddenly this whole terrible scene turned into a real life video game (like 'Grand Theft Auto') and I was going around shooting all of these characters. Even though it was absolutely real, I wasn't actually shooting them with a gun. I was like a child at play pointing my finger at each one in turn, "Bang! Bang!, You're Dead!", and at that they all dutifully fell over and died. O.K. here's the strange bit. I encountered an 'end of level boss' next, in this hyper-real video game simulation, and it was a woman in a bikini, at least 12 feet tall, but it was obvious that she also had male genetalia (which the bikini bottoms didn't hide so well). At this point I was starting to feel overwhelmed by all of these enemies, so I called upon my own power and instantly the whole thing stopped. Game over, I win.

The dream itself carried on a while, more peaceful, but it gets hazy. The only other thing I remember, that unnerved me, was that I saw myself as a woman. Not just some aspect of myself, it was me, the complete personality, as a woman. This unsettled me far more than anything else I'd seen, but I'm not sure why it should. It was very unexpected. I figured (perhaps naively) that I had been a man during all of my incarnations, but I guess that just going by the numbers I must have been a woman at some point too. Why does it make me so uncomfortable?
(I guess it's the ego that's really bothered, not the real me...The ego's last stand. LOL)

So it seems to me that intensifying the low buzzing sound in my head, had the effect (rather like a toilet) of very powerfully flushing a ton of garbage out of my head.(some of which stuck to the bowl) And to think that I've been ignoring that buzz for a very long time (years).

I suspect Jake and Ray may both be able to comment about some of this more fully than I can. I could comment about the buzzing sounds and the three tones, but prefer to leave it to you to explore for yourself if you wish to. You're also now very good at interpreting your own dreams. Only consciousness can do that, not mind. That's impressive.

One general comment I would make is that there are many thought/emotion forms in the astral that aren't real. Even if they have some life-force in them, they aren't immortal like us. I suspect that "your father" as you experienced him there was one example of such a thought-form, as were many of the other characters you saw. Such thought-forms get dissolved into non-existence if you apply enough awareness in their direction. I assume that's what the video game was about.

One thing the dream is saying is that you don't realize how strong you've become in the face of, well, the ego, and your dark side. If you saw the ego personified in a great many different characters and forms, that stuff was all your memories from somewhere -- probably from past lifetimes, mainly. Your dream is telling you you've had a huge breakthrough, so you don't need to go "humble" or tentative and try to deny it. The bi-gender boss of the whole scene undoubtedly stands for one of your parents. Maybe your mum was the authority figure in your family? The bi-gender thing would mean something like that. She exerted the authority although that's traditionally something you were brought up to consider part of the male role? Or whatever it meant, you came to some realization regarding issues of authority, which the male genitalia were probably symbolic of, I suspect. I don't know the circumstances of your life history, so it's up to you to figure out what it means. Why did bi-sexuality upset you so much?

And whatever you're doing lately, I'd suggest you simply keep on doing it.

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by Freed Fox (here)
I don't believe that individuality and/or personability are always attached to the dramatic, or lead to such. I have been blessed to know a few individuals who fly right in the face of that notion....

Hi Freed Fox. Thank you for bringing up these issues. What I believe I said was that all dramatizing comes from the ego. I never said it comes from true individuality. Let me clarify that I don’t consider that individuality = ego. The reason I talked about my experience of being “different” was to try and give an example of how they are different. And although I claim free will is an illusion, I believe there is such a thing as true individuality, and that it is very valuable. I guess, though, there are false notions of individuality, and usually they amount to ego in some form.

Dramatization is only one of the strings in the ego’s bow. Sometimes the ego hides itself and appears not to be active, and then it’s not engaged in dramatizing anything.

It may come down to different internalized meanings behind the concept of being 'detached', but I also believe that true love does not depend upon that condition.

We do seem to disagree on that, but that’s OK. This is a discussion forum. C.S. Lewis, who was an extraordinarily wise man, once wrote that: “Love detaches. True love detaches greatly.” So at least he agreed with my view. By the way, I believe the HS can and does often hold conflicting views or perspectives at the same time.

This is coming from someone who has felt love for others, but has never been in a romantic relationship of any sort... Yet I believe in this. I fully agree that it should be non-judgmental, and as unbiased as possible, but I get tripped up at the notion of total detachment in that regard. Again, it could be a matter of definition, or it could be my own naivety... Certainly Higher Selves have a great many commonalities, but they are essentially a middle ground between us and Source, so is it not possible that they have some degree of individuality themselves?

Of course each HS has considerable individuality. I know some “spiritual” people claim otherwise. But each of us is ultimately Source as seen from a unique, individual “angle”. Source needs all those gazillions of different “angles”. Source isn't Fascist.

Please don't consider this a challenge... that would be fairly rude to do when this is your thread we're discussing on, after all.

Although I started this thread, I don’t consider I “own” it more than anyone else. I believe the Guidelines in effect, given the thread title, say something like: people should stay relevant to the heart of discussing the HS or OBEs and have an open mind and really listen to the others, but beyond that they can express themselves just about however they like.

Incidentally, you don't need to worry about offending me (read: my ego) because you believe you disagree with something. In the initial years of the old Camelot/Avalon Forums there was much more debate, and it sometimes opened up many horizons and exposed truths even when a consensus wasn't reached.

[Finefeather]

Hi AwakeInADream

Posted by AwakeInADream (here)
I never mentioned the other two tones. There are three in all. There is a very low vibration at the back of my head where the neck meets the skull, and then there are two very high pitched tones(tinnitus like) at the sides of my head above and forward from my ears. All three tones are different and they form a kind of triangle.

There is in deed 3 tones in the head which form a triangle...they constitute the Spirit...HS/Soul...lower mind connection...you might want to read up a bit on the science of the Antahkarana. This is basically a science which is to do with the building of the bridge between the lower and the higher man. A simple way of explaining this triangle...which is the bridge... is to relate it to the trinity or 3 aspects of the One Spiritual Being...the aspects are Spirit/Soul and Personality. So 2 of these tones are high pitches...they are the Spirit and the Soul/HS and the lower one is the personality. In each case they are related to the various minds of man in their respective realms. This bridge is what we are attempting to 'construct' in order to regain the full 'connection' between the conscious lower mind and the higher mind...it is the final hurdle of the prodigal son returning from his journey back to his father...his source.
If you are interested in this here is one link, I think it might be very interesting for some...if not all to read and maybe comment on?
http://www.share-international.org/a...ntahkarana.htm

Posted by AwakeInADream (here)
….After about half an hour my body temperature starts to increase to the point that I have to get up and check that I hadn't left the heating on.

What I am going to say next is for us all to consider...seriously...because there comes a point in our lives where we stand between furthering our material life...or moving towards the life of the higher self.

This point, of decision, does not come easy if we consider the lack of true spiritual teaching in the world. All we hear about continually, in our lives, is the voice of the materialist who seeks to get us to dig our roots deep into the idea that we have no where else to go except this earth...so we spend vasts amount of money and time building our material world...with all our future offspring in mind...we set up our little world because we think there is nothing else in life. Based on how the world is run today we should clearly see that the majority are locked into a material world way of thinking. This is of course the reason we are so easily controlled and manipulated by the cabal etc.

The solution comes to us in some special incarnation...after many lives...and after a great amount of seeking and learning and pain and suffering and might I even say boredom? We are suddenly, despite the lack of even knowing, at first...confronted by this choice of continuing our material lives or seeking a way out...a new way? Or is it just the real way suddenly beginning to dawn on us?

So...I digressed a bit there...my apologies...but here is the point I am trying to make from this statement above.

The fact that you can raise your body temperature shows that you are stimulating the pituatory gland...which is in the area of the hypothalamus which controls the body temperature via the adrenal glands. This 'trick' as is many others is a form of Hatha Yoga and many of the Indian Fakirs...(watch your mind here )...and sensationalist types want us to believe that they are very enlightened by been able to perform such 'magic'...when all this is, is another form of demonstrating material control.

No amount of higher self involvement is required to perform these magic tricks...and they are ALL just a sign of ego displaying control over what has become deeply seated in our subconscious minds as ancient instinctive requirements...now being brought up to show the world how we can best make use of the material world we life in. Sure there might be times that these are useful but who wants to have to keep telling their heart to beat...because we have brought it back into our 'things to do' today list?

So we need to avoid the practices which highlight the body and start to work on the practices which bring in the higher senses.

By the way...AwakeInADream...this was not meant as a dig at you but just a thought which came to mind when I read this. There are many things we will experience in our awakening...and I do not mean that you are in any way going astray...I just thought it might be of interest.

Take care...love you all
Ray

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by AwakeInADream (here)
[
So I was experimenting last night with these tones (mainly the low vibration), and I was deliberately intensifying them whilst laying down meditating. After about half an hour my body temperature starts to increase to the point that I have to get up and check that I hadn't left the heating on. So that's one thing they do, I guess....the other thing though was very odd indeed...

I don't believe it's a good idea to manipulate things, such as those tones, e.g. by deliberately intensifying them. Once you've located them, all you need to do is put your awareness on them, and they'll unfold however they were meant to do. Awareness is much more active than we think it is, only something bigger than our lower self is doing the activity, so all we need to do is flow with it, and by its very nature it will keep broadening our horizon.

[Joe Akulis]

"A virtual reality is not "reality" to me - thus why I see "this" as illusion."

I was just pondering on this for a bit. You know what that particular view makes me think of? School. I had my fair share of difficulties going through school. It's not easy getting along with that many people all the time, and finding your way through it all. Being immature and unwise makes it twice as hard not to graduate without a pile of negative memories of mistakes you made, and the hardships that you endured that were caused by others. There are also a lot of good memories and good friendships that I left with too, that's for sure. Some people have a harder time going through school than others. Why were they so lucky that they got all the good looks and other traits that everone in school prizes so superficially?

Ah well. Eventually we graduate and go "out into the world." You ever hear a parent telling their child, when they are all stressed out about something happening in school, "Try not to worry about it so much. School only lasts a few more years. None of that will matter in a few years." You ever go to a reunion and shake hands with people you weren't even friends with back then? Then you get chatting and find out you have many of the same interests in adulthood. I think its pretty neat to see how adults, (the ones who actually matured that is :- ) are able to let a lot of the negative things go, like just a bad dream. There's a common understanding that people do some silly, and/or stupid things when we are kids, and we forgive and accept.

I've been thinking about school... You have buildings that you're in most of the time. You have top level principals and administrators, you have the teachers down below them, and you even have people wandering around to make sure everyone stays in class. All of those people are making a living by your required attendance. Do you think school, metaphorically, could be viewed a lot like this virtual reality you see when you consider mankind's existence here on Earth?

Do you think that same type of destiny awaits all of us? Will we all eventually graduate one day, and escape that controlled environment and go out "into the universe"?

I think there are lot of ways this Earth school phase of our existence can be compared to us attending school when we were young. In America, once you reach the age of 5, you're going. You have no say in the matter. You don't even get to pick which one. When you hit 18, you graduate. Then you and your parents work out the question of whether or not college will be your next step. Now you're getting some say in the matter. Then grad school? Usually that choice is all in your own hands at that point. After that, you're a doctor, or whatever. Reincarnation is no different and no more than this.

When you reach the same age as your High School principal, will you then view him/her as another being, no different than you? No greater, no lesser. No more evil or grand than you are? If someone is not in control of their next incarnation, then are the people who are, are they our jailers? When I was a kid, they sure seemed like that... But who was it that was sending us back each year? *shrug* I've studied reincarnation enough to know that there are more similarites here than differences. I thought I would toss out this comparison. Hope it helps.

Hope to bump into you all out there some day. We can swap some funny anecdotes about some of the same teachers we've had. That's seems to be a tradition. Heh heh.

Much love and gratitude to TH and Ray for all that you are doing.
Joe

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by seeker1972 (here)
"A virtual reality is not "reality" to me - thus why I see "this" as illusion."

I was just pondering on this for a bit. You know what that particular view makes me think of? School. I had my fair share of difficulties going through school. It's not easy getting along with that many people all the time, and finding your way through it all. Being immature and unwise makes it twice as hard not to graduate without a pile of negative memories of mistakes you made, and the hardships that you endured that were caused by others. There are also a lot of good memories and good friendships that I left with too, that's for sure. Some people have a harder time going through school than others. Why were they so lucky that they got all the good looks and other traits that everone in school prizes so superficially?

Ah well. Eventually we graduate and go "out into the world." You ever hear a parent telling their child, when they are all stressed out about something happening in school, "Try not to worry about it so much. School only lasts a few more years. None of that will matter in a few years." You ever go to a reunion and shake hands with people you weren't even friends with back then? Then you get chatting and find out you have many of the same interests in adulthood. I think its pretty neat to see how adults, (the ones who actually matured that is :- ) are able to let a lot of the negative things go, like just a bad dream. There's a common understanding that people do some silly, and/or stupid things when we are kids, and we forgive and accept.

I've been thinking about school... You have buildings that you're in most of the time. You have top level principals and administrators, you have the teachers down below them, and you even have people wandering around to make sure everyone stays in class. All of those people are making a living by your required attendance. Do you think school, metaphorically, could be viewed a lot like this virtual reality you see when you consider mankind's existence here on Earth?

One more quote from Gary Zukav:

“Reality is what we take to be true.
What we take to be true is what we believe.
What we believe is based upon our perceptions.
What we perceive depends upon what we look for.
What we look for depends upon what we think.
What we think depends upon what we perceive.
What we perceive determines what we believe.
What we believe determines what we take to be true.
What we take to be true is our reality.”

I strongly suspect he was being tongue-in-cheek here. Maybe he was trying to satirize how the mind sees everything. In circles.

The real truth is, some dimensions are higher than others. They are like the classes we get promoted into at school, in a way, to use Joe’s analogy. As I’ve said, our perspective, or our points of view, happen to lie in the eighth dimension. If we can learn to be more aware of that, and become flexible about our point of view, we’ll loosen our attachment to the issues of the physical world.

The Germans liked to talk about one’s worldview, which is one’s overall perspective on the universe and life. Notice that it’s not so easy to change that even in small ways for any so-called normal person. The ego is made out of complexes, which are all ultimately just stuck points of view.

If we (our HS) can control or be flexible about what point of view we adopt, that will cause things to manifest in the physical that are consistent with that perspective on reality. We don’t so much “create” a particular illusion so much as bring something into use that was there only for those with eyes to see through the veil. But we only get to do this when we have become relatively free of the ego. At that point the many stuck viewpoints from our past aren’t there cluttering up our way.

[Finefeather]

Posted by seeker1972 (here)
"A virtual reality is not "reality" to me - thus why I see "this" as illusion."

I was just pondering on this for a bit. You know what that particular view makes me think of? School. I had my fair share of difficulties going through school. It's not easy getting along with that many people all the time, and finding your way through it all. Being immature and unwise makes it twice as hard not to graduate without a pile of negative memories of mistakes you made, and the hardships that you endured that were caused by others. There are also a lot of good memories and good friendships that I left with too, that's for sure. Some people have a harder time going through school than others. Why were they so lucky that they got all the good looks and other traits that everone in school prizes so superficially?

Ah well. Eventually we graduate and go "out into the world." You ever hear a parent telling their child, when they are all stressed out about something happening in school, "Try not to worry about it so much. School only lasts a few more years. None of that will matter in a few years." You ever go to a reunion and shake hands with people you weren't even friends with back then? Then you get chatting and find out you have many of the same interests in adulthood. I think its pretty neat to see how adults, (the ones who actually matured that is :- ) are able to let a lot of the negative things go, like just a bad dream. There's a common understanding that people do some silly, and/or stupid things when we are kids, and we forgive and accept.

I've been thinking about school... You have buildings that you're in most of the time. You have top level principals and administrators, you have the teachers down below them, and you even have people wandering around to make sure everyone stays in class. All of those people are making a living by your required attendance. Do you think school, metaphorically, could be viewed a lot like this virtual reality you see when you consider mankind's existence here on Earth?

Do you think that same type of destiny awaits all of us? Will we all eventually graduate one day, and escape that controlled environment and go out "into the universe"?

I think there are lot of ways this Earth school phase of our existence can be compared to us attending school when we were young. In America, once you reach the age of 5, you're going. You have no say in the matter. You don't even get to pick which one. When you hit 18, you graduate. Then you and your parents work out the question of whether or not college will be your next step. Now you're getting some say in the matter. Then grad school? Usually that choice is all in your own hands at that point. After that, you're a doctor, or whatever. Reincarnation is no different and no more than this.

When you reach the same age as your High School principal, will you then view him/her as another being, no different than you? No greater, no lesser. No more evil or grand than you are? If someone is not in control of their next incarnation, then are the people who are, are they our jailers? When I was a kid, they sure seemed like that... But who was it that was sending us back each year? *shrug* I've studied reincarnation enough to know that there are more similarites here than differences. I thought I would toss out this comparison. Hope it helps.

Hope to bump into you all out there some day. We can swap some funny anecdotes about some of the same teachers we've had. That's seems to be a tradition. Heh heh.

Much love and gratitude to TH and Ray for all that you are doing.
Joe

Hi Joe
What a great post...thank you.
You know, I use this analogy quite a lot also and you know what I get so often? "Hey...we ar'nt a bunch of kids anymore"...as if the grownups are all taught up and ready for life...
I think you have got it spot on...but there are always those...as you have pointed out...who think they have 'got it' all. Time to make a few bucks now and invest in the world and try my best not to get caught
We have been on this long journey into the physical material world...in just about every form that exists. We are now on the last stage of our 'adventure' and this is the tough one for us to crack...the final graduation
Then it's "into the universe" as you so rightly stated.

I look forward to more of your wise thinkings
Love to you
Ray

[AwakeInADream]

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
The bi-gender boss of the whole scene undoubtedly stands for one of your parents. Maybe your mum was the authority figure in your family? The bi-gender thing would mean something like that. She exerted the authority although that's traditionally something you were brought up to consider part of the male role? Or whatever it meant, you came to some realization regarding issues of authority, which the male genitalia were probably symbolic of, I suspect. I don't know the circumstances of your life history, so it's up to you to figure out what it means. Why did bi-sexuality upset you so much?

This is spot on, thanks TH! My Dad wasn't around growing up so mt Mum did have to wear two hats (I really think I did choose the best parents I could have hoped for BTW ). I think I now fully understand every aspect of the dream. I guess that my Mother would look 12 feet tall to me if I suddenly became a child again, the giant hermaphradite figure didn't really bother me because even though the dream was quite dramatic, I did sail through it in a rather detached way and was mainly curious. In fact I found the video game aspect of it quite enjoyable. On the whole I think the dream represented how to a large extent I've defeated the ego, and for the first time ever I actually felt unified within the dream, like I was fully myself and not even playing the other ego roles. That is until the end when I came face to face with myself as a woman, then there were two of me again, but I think I understand this part too now.

Growing up without any male role models I had no one to teach me how to be a 'real' man (and that is probably just as well), so I've sometimes doubted my own masculinity. Even now I think that my feminine qualities far outweigh anything I could have learned from the male world, but that being said I think that my ego has driven me to try to prove myself as a rough and tough manly man, and I guess I have been a little self conscious and sensitive over my masculinity being questioned in the past (mainly by myself, but projected onto others). I think that I stated smoking (knowing full well the dangers) out of this mindset. So meeting myself as a woman was vital for me to see just where my finer qualities have come from. I was quite attractive as a woman actually (even if I do say so myself LOL).

Posted by Finefeather (here)
There is in deed 3 tones in the head which form a triangle...they constitute the Spirit...HS/Soul...lower mind connection...you might want to read up a bit on the science of the Antahkarana. This is basically a science which is to do with the building of the bridge between the lower and the higher man. A simple way of explaining this triangle...which is the bridge... is to relate it to the trinity or 3 aspects of the One Spiritual Being...the aspects are Spirit/Soul and Personality. So 2 of these tones are high pitches...they are the Spirit and the Soul/HS and the lower one is the personality.

Thanks FineFeather! I was concentrating mainly on the lower tone and had almost disregarded the other two, I guess that's only natural considering the lower tone is the personality. I kind of figured that the lower tone was the most important because, if the higher notes were harmonics of the fundamental tone (in a physical sense), then the low vibration would be closer to the source or Source even. I guess in the spiritual sense these laws can run backwards though. The lower tone certainly has a more physical impact on me though.

Posted by Finefeather (here)
The fact that you can raise your body temperature shows that you are stimulating the pituatory gland...which is in the area of the hypothalamus which controls the body temperature via the adrenal glands. This 'trick' as is many others is a form of Hatha Yoga and many of the Indian Fakirs...(watch your mind here )...and sensationalist types want us to believe that they are very enlightened by been able to perform such 'magic'...when all this is, is another form of demonstrating material control.

That's interesting too, I didn't know the pituatory did that. Still I do know that neat tricks like that won't help me in the least in terms of spiritual growth and evolution. I'm glad though that my observations are being validated (which means I'm not going crazy LOL). Thanks for that Antahkarina link It might help me to approach these tones in a less haphazard manner. I've been getting a lot more activity in the upper ones last night and today (now), they're starting to vibrate lower, perhaps resonate with the lowest.

TraineeHuman You're right I don't think I really should be deliberately intensifying these tones because I already had a sense I was playing with fire, but then again I don't think that my curiosity could have brought me to any real harm could it?

Thank you both for your wonderful advice!

Thanks too FreedFox! You bring up some interesting points about sexual polarity. I tend to think of Source as having no sex at all, that it is beyond division, but I do wonder at the level of the Higher Self can we really say of our selves that we are essentially male or female, both or neither? As far as I can tell the main differences between men and women (physical differences aside) are egoic and thus can be transcended.

Also the voices I hear are sometimes men and other times women and children, so maybe HS uses them all depending on the type of message?

Awake

[FraZZleD]

My First OBE back in the 70's

I fell asleep on my couch when all of a sudden I realized I was walking around my living room. It was strange because I could see outside clearly. Our curtains are white and thick and you can’t normally see through them. I was trying to figure out why I was able to see through them as if there were no curtains there and we never open them.

As I turned around while I was trying to figure out where the curtains were, I suddenly saw my body lying on the couch. Now I'm freaking out , “Wow, this is really weird! I’m walking around my living room but my body is on the couch.” I just stood there trying to figure out what in the world is going on.

As I turned around to try and figure out where the curtains were and how I could be standing here and be on the couch sleeping at the same time, I saw my friend coming over to my house carrying a book. It was 3:00 in the morning and I was in a panic because I knew I had to get back into my body to answer the door but I didn't know how.

The next thing I remember is hearing my door click. I got up and opened the door expecting to see my friend, but she was not there. I stepped outside to see if she was walking away, but I didn’t see her. Her house was lit up but there was no motion of anyone in the windows. I told myself I had dozed off and must of had a really crazy dream.

The next day when I saw my friend I told her that I had a really crazy dream that she was in. I said I saw her coming to my house about 3:00am carrying a book and that I could see her coming through my curtains and the strangest thing was I was walking around my house while I was asleep on the couch. I was laughing as I told her about my silly dream. But I noticed that she was not laughing; she had a very strange look on her face. I asked her what was wrong. She said she did come over at 3:00 am. She was bringing me a book to read.

I said, “NO WAY! REALLY?” She asked me what she had been wearing and I told her and she said I was right. I asked her how that could be, how I could see her through my curtains and see all these details and be on the couch sleeping. She said, “It sounds like you had an out-of-body experience.” I said, “So that’s what I experienced I've heard of it but never really knew what it was!”

I asked her why I didn’t see her when I opened the door? She said she knocked softly so as not to wake me if I was asleep. It takes about five minutes for the screen door to close completely. The click woke me up and I must not have gotten back into my body soon enough to hear the knocking. We both sat there laughing and talking about it the rest of the day.

[TraineeHuman]

Mugwort under the pillow creates vivid lucid reaming every night for many people, according to an expert herbalist I've come across. (That's mugwort, not the mugwi from the Gremlins movies.) Anyone care to try it and tell us if it worked for you?

That makes sense, because mugwort is one of the most favored herbs for getting rid of or silencing earthbound spirits. Since most houses have one (no, not a mugwi), it's a good idea to get some mugwort for your home anyway -- or an orgone ioniser.

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by FraZZleD (here)
My First OBE back in the 70's

I fell asleep on my couch when all of a sudden I realized I was walking around my living room. It was strange because I could see outside clearly. Our curtains are white and thick and you can’t normally see through them. I was trying to figure out why I was able to see through them as if there were no curtains there and we never open them....
I was laughing as I told her about my silly dream. But I noticed that she was not laughing; she had a very strange look on her face. I asked her what was wrong. She said she did come over at 3:00 am. She was bringing me a book to read.

I said, “NO WAY! REALLY?” She asked me what she had been wearing and I told her and she said I was right. I asked her how that could be, how I could see her through my curtains and see all these details and be on the couch sleeping. She said, “It sounds like you had an out-of-body experience.” I said, “So that’s what I experienced I've heard of it but never really knew what it was!”

I asked her why I didn’t see her when I opened the door? She said she knocked softly so as not to wake me if I was asleep. It takes about five minutes for the screen door to close completely. The click woke me up and I must not have gotten back into my body soon enough to hear the knocking. We both sat there laughing and talking about it the rest of the day.

Hi, FraZZled. Aren’t we all, at times? Thank you for sharing your experience from the 70s. Do you still have OBEs sometimes? Somehow, somewhere…?

I guess to someone new the relevance of the HS may not be obvious, so let me briefly explain. Once one has seen plenty of experience OB – as I have, though Ray and Jake no doubt considerably more so than me, in the 4D and 5D regions --, one realizes that what’s genuinely important is that one can “hear” the HS a little more clearly when one is in a higher dimension than the physical. Many Christians might like to substitute “God” where I’m saying “the HS”. That’s because many Christians believe that God is attempting to talk to them very often, if only they’d listen. And they’re right, if we replace “God” with “the HS”.

The problem is, one doesn’t “hear” the HS very well, primarily because one’s ego is in the way (and because one doesn’t learn how to be a great listener). So, first it’s necessary to deeply Know Thyself before it’s possible to fully know the HS. The ego, being fiendishly clever, lives not only in the physical world but in the (etheric and the) 4D and 5D worlds also. Hence, OBEs in those worlds reveal things to us about ourselves that we didn’t know. Because in 4D and higher whatever you focus on you travel to and into instantaneously, it helps not to focus on any part of our own negative side there, even any negative part that we didn’t know we had.

OBEs do also expose us to whole worlds and civilizations of beings existing at many, many different higher levels. But because we are stuck in the physical world and have to keep returning there, our experiences of such worlds are only helpful if they give us useful insights into our current life.

Finally, most of a “normal” person’s dreams each night take place in upper 5D. That’s basically just above any level the ego can extend its tentacles into; and they are direct messages from our HS, in pictures or symbols, of whatever we currently most don’t want to face in our life.

There’s more, but I’ll stop there. Maybe you’re up with all of this already anyway.

[soleil]

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
Mugwort under the pillow creates vivid lucid reaming every night for many people, according to an expert herbalist I've come across. (That's mugwort, not the mugwi from the Gremlins movies.) Anyone care to try it and tell us if it worked for you?

That makes sense, because mugwort is one of the most favored herbs for getting rid of or silencing earthbound spirits. Since most houses have one (no, not a mugwi), it's a good idea to get some mugwort for your home anyway -- or an orgone ioniser.

ill give it a go, but i'm going to have to find some first

{edit}
http://www.altnature.com/thegarden/Mugwort.html

[OOO]

So I've been playing with the idea of wearing my 'artist coat' and creating.
I have to say that was a brilliant suggestion TH.
This past week I was installing hardwood floors and the only time I had avalilable to do construction was in the evenings.
I have very sensitive neighbours who jump at every sound, they are an elderly couple.
So I decided to slap on my creativity 'coat' and expand my self to absorb the sound of
the machinery I was using. At 11 o'clock in the evening I was sawing away with my table saw, which is really loud.
People passed by on the street without looking, my neighbours didn't notice a thing. Not one complaint.

I have to say that it was not easy focusing on absorbing the sound and making sure I don't slice my fingers.
But it worked. I am starting to get the idea of how this HS thing can be very useful.

Feeling really awed.

[soleil]

hi all, i recently purchased a book that JUST came in the mail yesterday. its called 'How to Channel from the Akashic Records When You Are Reading Tarot Cards' by Rozália Horváth Balázsi.

the reason i am mentioning it, is because i started reading the preface and intro which goes into a VERY cool detail of the HS and soul consciousness, VERY similar (i'm pretty sure) to what our TH and our finefeather has been sharing/teaching us.

i'm hoping i can make a short photocopy/PDF (if no one objects) to share with you all here. but if you are able to find a free copy (i never did, thats why i bought it) i would recommend it just for the first part of the book -or the whole thing if you are interested in tarot.

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by teradactyl (here)

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
Mugwort under the pillow creates vivid lucid reaming every night for many people, according to an expert herbalist I've come across. (That's mugwort, not the mugwi from the Gremlins movies.) Anyone care to try it and tell us if it worked for you?

That makes sense, because mugwort is one of the most favored herbs for getting rid of or silencing earthbound spirits. Since most houses have one (no, not a mugwi), it's a good idea to get some mugwort for your home anyway -- or an orgone ioniser.

ill give it a go, but i'm going to have to find some first

{edit}
http://www.altnature.com/thegarden/Mugwort.html

I bought a packet of mugwort from that herbalist for $10 and put it under my pillow. I’m in the habit of not looking at pictures OB or in meditation, except for the major dreams for the night, and even then I’m used to only wanting to see the general gist. Because of this strong habit and preference, most of the lucid images I saw only lasted a split second or occasionally up to maybe two seconds at best. It was a ceaseless huge jumble of pictures and other phenomena, from various dimensions, and some certainly looking like it was from other planets. I didn’t understand what most of it was about. Although I normally fall asleep straight away, it kept me up for half an hour. As I say, because I’m in the habit of transcending all the pictures because I prefer to move on to higher dimensions than that, this had the effect of running the pictures extremely fast and in what seemed a scrambled fashion. After twenty minutes I did manage to move to the sixth dimension, where things were no longer scrambled, and the scenery did not change. Ray has mentioned seeing lights and colors. In my experience these are most prominent in dimensions six and seven, and I did experience and communicate with some bright lights that were beings and also some areas of color. Then I fell asleep.

teradactyl, if you can’t get hold of mugwort, that herbalist’s mailing address is:
Legal Highs, PO Box 3157, Uki, NSW 2484, Australia. The cost of sending it to Canada might be at least $10 extra. Also, there isn’t much profit in herbs, so you might like to order something more, like stevia or coltsfoot or whatever.

[Freed Fox]

TH, in your experience, do the pictures or images carry greater meaning? Like dreams being messages from HS?

I know we discussed lights/colors often being healing energies. Outside of these, I never see images during meditation. This could possibly be the result of not being an experienced practitioner (as I have only been meditating on-and-off for a couple of years now).

There were, however, two different images that came to me in this past month. Both were very momentary, and both were seen just before waking up in the morning. Due to that, it seems to me that they might have both been some sort of trace artifacts from OBE. That isn't to say I experienced conscious OBEs at those times (still haven't had one full-on), but as you have mentioned we often have them during sleep and simply carry no recollection of such upon awakening.

The first, a few weeks ago, was a bee sitting in the middle of a flower. In the few seconds before it faded/I woke up, it was sitting directly in the center of the flower (which looked a bit like a sunflower). The second, which came to me last week, looked like a cell under a microscope. It was light blue and had little bubble-like organelles. The striking thing about them both was how incredibly vivid they appeared to be (moreso than I can typically visualize, though I practice clear-mind meditation rather than visualization). I wasn't really going to share this, but since we're on the subject...

Interesting about the mugwort, thanks for that. It sounds like it's worth a try.

Also, teradactyl; that sounds like a worthwhile read. If you want to post some excepts, that would be appreciated.

[Finefeather]

Hi All
Talking about what we see during OB and meditation. I find that meditation is a completely different experience to OB. When I meditate I experience inner awareness and when I go OB I experience a kind of universal consciousness.
I am not 100% sure but I am almost sure I have never witnesses people or other beings or souls while meditating. I remember when I spent some time at a Buddhist Retreat Centre quite some time back and we had a visiting Lama who kept telling me that he was drawn to my space to see the geometric patterns I was witnessing in meditation. To me this is getting lost in my HS...I am been shown the beauty and extent of the Spiritual Being from which I come.

OB on the other hand is for me a lot more like fun because I get to meet up with many in my group. The lower areas I need to frequent when I do rescue are not that much fun because I always have to be extra focused on protection from the weird things I meet up with...I have been slowing down on this recently.

Not sure if TH has covered this in the early days of this thread...so I apologize if I am doing something wrong...but I have spent many years, on and off, in higher dimensions doing timeline probabilities. This is quite interesting and fun. I basically get to play out other possibilities of my most important choices I made in life...to see how they pan out. My favorite one was with an ex girlfriend, in another city, Johannesburg..who had a father who was a born again Christian preacher...no need to say that he thought I was a direct descendant of Satan ...we eventually agreed to end this for the sake of her family and soon after that this started to play out in OB's...and believe it or not he himself joined us, and his wife, in this adventure OB. He nor his wife had no idea whatsoever in the physical that we were all such great buddies OB. The moral of the story I guess is obvious...how the ego can delude itself in real life...take it away and brothers we become. Now how do I know I was not having an illusion?..well she used to phone me and we confirmed the things we did and here's the end of the story...I decided to go to his church one Sunday...only once...and his wife and I became quite good friends and I ended up sitting with him on his porch at his home..sipping tea and talking about his daughter. I left Johannesburg soon after that about 30 years ago...makes you think doesn't it?

Sorry quite late and gotta get some sleep
Love you all
Ray

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by Finefeather (here)
Talking about what we see during OB and meditation. I find that meditation is a completely different experience to OB. When I meditate I experience inner awareness and when I go OB I experience a kind of universal consciousness.
I am not 100% sure but I am almost sure I have never witnesses people or other beings or souls while meditating. I remember when I spent some time at a Buddhist Retreat Centre quite some time back and we had a visiting Lama who kept telling me that he was drawn to my space to see the geometric patterns I was witnessing in meditation. To me this is getting lost in my HS...I am been shown the beauty and extent of the Spiritual Being from which I come.

OB on the other hand is for me a lot more like fun because I get to meet up with many in my group.

At the beginning of the thread I commented about how meditation experiences and OBEs have many similarities and considerable overlap. I also suggested what some of the differences were. One of the differences I suggested was that meditation is like a rocket ship that keeps on traveling to higher levels and shuns looking at the passing scenery, while OBE is like a glider that stays at one level and explores the scenery and the native dwellers there.

I also see meditation as a certain type of self-psychotherapy. It’s one where you may not realise at all that you are doing any psychotherapy, because you don’t use words or concepts or pictures (in any conscious ways). Instead, it uses pure looking. That looking is a looking at you, at who you really are. But everything in the process is left unlabeled. This means that even though the only thing you are looking at (and with) is you, it’s you in a pre-labeled state. That looking is quite self-relexive, and gradually transforms itself, again without the use of words or concepts etc.

All, or nearly all the accounts of OBEs or bi-locations or dreams around here have been presented by their experiencers very much as self-psychotherapeutic too. But pictures or symbols have been used to describe these OBEs/etc, and words and concepts have been used to interpret them and understand them. So I’d say that’s another notable difference.

I remain unconvinced that it’s even possible to have any OBE without first being in meditation or in something that is effectively the same as meditation. If I’m right, that would then help blur the distinction too.

A third thing which is self-psychotherapeutic is self-enquiry. This involves knowing yourself, partly through self-analysis but also through a pure looking process not unlike what I have said I consider “meditation” to be. The only difference is that one seeks to verbally identify what one’s issues and memories and crucial past incidents are, and verbally (at least to oneself) keeps track of progress in resolving them. Some people classify self-enquiry as a form of meditation.

It seems to me that all these three types of activity are helpful when they are being used self-psychotherapeutically. I guess I also use OB exploration or bi-location to obtain or explore information. OBEs can also just be a type of pleasure cruise, a short “tourist” holiday.

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by Freed Fox (here)
TH, in your experience, do the pictures or images carry greater meaning? Like dreams being messages from HS?

I know we discussed lights/colors often being healing energies. Outside of these, I never see images during meditation. This could possibly be the result of not being an experienced practitioner (as I have only been meditating on-and-off for a couple of years now).

There were, however, two different images that came to me in this past month. Both were very momentary, and both were seen just before waking up in the morning. Due to that, it seems to me that they might have both been some sort of trace artifacts from OBE. That isn't to say I experienced conscious OBEs at those times (still haven't had one full-on), but as you have mentioned we often have them during sleep and simply carry no recollection of such upon awakening.

Pictures, images, symbols, movies are what the HS uses to communicate to us in most of our dreams. That makes them significant. But if I find myself experiencing anything of that sort during meditation, I’ll do my best to let it slide out of my attention and I won’t put awareness on it or remember it. I guess, though, some people like to do contemplation, which is a little like meditation but it’s based on concentrating on nothing but the possible meanings and significance for oneself of, say, a certain scene or image or symbol from one’s own dreams.

You’re probably wondering, though, why wasn’t I interpreting the images and whatever else that I was seeing with the mugwort under my pillow. Let me explain it this way. In psychotherapy, a person resolves their issue when towards the end they have an insight, an “Ah, ha!” moment. I claim such moments come from, and make up, the eighth dimension. Obviously, if the person could jump straight to the insight that does away with their problem, that would be preferable to spending all the time and work getting to that point – all the getting unstuck from whatever negative or false perceptions or beliefs the ego has been clinging to regarding that issue. The insight at the end alone is enough to cleanse the ego. Well, what I’ve learnt to do, after many years, is how to go the eighth dimension fairly directly in such a situation. Not instantly, but it’s still a much quicker and less painful way to resolve more of one’s issues.

This ties in somewhat with what Ray has mentioned in post #838 about how he sometimes explores alternate possible timelines, such as the timeline where he would be married today to a different ladyfriend from his youth and be regarded by her family as an afflcition from Satan. I’ve already talked about this a little in posts #241 and #242 and a little later. Yes, even in 6D, the dimension that features intentions, major possible timelines are real, including those that didn’t manifest in 3D. This type of multiplicity of potential versions of reality gets even bigger in the world of 7D, the world of points of view or overall perspectives. And even more so in 8D, the world of insights or new discoveries. And so on up the chain. But I don’t agree it’s true or necessary for all possible timelines to somehow manifest in 3D, at all. Some physicists believe they do, but it would just get too technical for me to explain why I believe they’re mistaken.

The first, a few weeks ago, was a bee sitting in the middle of a flower. In the few seconds before it faded/I woke up, it was sitting directly in the center of the flower (which looked a bit like a sunflower). The second, which came to me last week, looked like a cell under a microscope. It was light blue and had little bubble-like organelles. The striking thing about them both was how incredibly vivid they appeared to be (more so than I can typically visualize, though I practice clear-mind meditation rather than visualization). I wasn't really going to share this, but since we're on the subject...

The bee pollinating your inner sun would probably mean something like that the Light of your HS is about to grow greater, and this will surprise you.

Were those organelles a luminescent blue? Coincidentally, last night with the mugwort I saw huge numbers of them and of luminous blue dots forming various shapes like tunnels. In my visions last night it was clear they had something to do with controlling how DNA works. So, this is some kind of symbol of renewed life, I'd say. Sounds similar to the pollinated sunflower to me. But it does sound good.