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Thread: LRH (L. Ron Hubbard)

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    Germany Avalon Member christian's Avatar
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    Default Re: LRH (L. Ron Hubbard)

    Don't wanna derail this thread with this, maybe this should be moved into another thread at some point. Anways, just wanna add some perspective to the following issue.

    Quote Posted by Freed Fox (here)
    We should not seek to destroy our enemies. The greatest good should not involve killing or destruction, but rehabilitation. If we are as powerful as you claim, jim, then we should be capable of that at any and all levels.

    I desire to see salvation for all entities, even those who have been 'the worst of the worst'. That is the only 'greatest good' that I can accept as such.
    What if they don't want to be rehabilitated? Would you want to employ means of 'beneficial coercion' to make them change their minds? How's that in its essence different from applying "physical" force to stop them in the exercise of their free will decision to hurt and enslave others? In both cases you're interfering. Anyways, of course I agree that employing gentle means in whatever one is doing is always preferable, it's just more graceful.

    I think the only thing you could really do, if you want to be completly "peaceful," would be to swallow everything while never moving out of your tranquil state of lovingness. I have no doubt that eventually getting completly into that state does make you unconquerable.

    But personally and right now, when I'm innocently attacked, or when I see innocence being attacked and bullied, and when it's not within my means at the moment to just move entirely into that unpenetrable state to defend myself or others, then I'll most definitely fight like a savage caveman infused by the Great Spirit that is raging through me like a torrent.

    This is from the Dao De Jing, my favorite book:
    Weapons are the tools of violence;
    all decent men detest them.

    Weapons are the tools of fear;
    a decent man will avoid them
    except in the direst necessity
    and, if compelled, will use them
    only with the utmost restraint.
    Peace is his highest value.
    If the peace has been shattered,
    how can he be content?
    His enemies are not demons,
    but human beings like himself.
    He doesn't wish them personal harm.
    Nor does he rejoice in victory.
    How could he rejoice in victory
    and delight in the slaughter of men?

    He enters a battle gravely,
    with sorrow and with great compassion,
    as if he were attending a funeral.
    This is also a topic in the Bhagavad Gita, where Arjuna laments to Krishna prior to the Kurukshetra War. He says:
    Better to live on beggar's bread
    With those we love alive,
    Than taste their blood in rich feasts spread,
    And guiltily survive!
    But Krishna explains to him—in my eyes—how the entire existence is a big play and we should therefore not focus on preserving lives that will end anyways, but to help move forward the evolution in the bigger picture. I can imagine how killing a pathological murderer would save many people's lives and help these people to make more out of their lives. It could very well also help the person you killed. Sometimes it seems like you just can't turn people around in this lifetime. Thus their salvation is in killing them, you actually do them a favor. This could really wake them up on a spiritual level. This is what Krishna answers to Arjuna:
    Thou grievest where no grief should be! thou speak'st
    Words lacking wisdom! for the wise in heart
    Mourn not for those that live, nor those that die.
    Nor I, nor thou, nor any one of these,
    Ever was not, nor ever will not be,
    For ever and for ever afterwards.
    All, that doth live, lives always! To man's frame
    As there come infancy and youth and age,
    So come there raisings-up and layings-down
    Of other and of other life-abodes,
    Which the wise know, and fear not. This that irks-
    Thy sense-life, thrilling to the elements-
    Bringing thee heat and cold, sorrows and joys,
    'Tis brief and mutable! Bear with it, Prince!
    As the wise bear. The soul which is not moved,
    The soul that with a strong and constant calm
    Takes sorrow and takes joy indifferently,
    Lives in the life undying! That which is
    Can never cease to be; that which is not
    Will not exist. To see this truth of both
    Is theirs who part essence from accident,
    Substance from shadow. Indestructible,
    Learn thou! the Life is, spreading life through all;
    It cannot anywhere, by any means,
    Be anywise diminished, stayed, or changed.
    But for these fleeting frames which it informs
    With spirit deathless, endless, infinite,
    They perish. Let them perish, Prince! and fight!
    In essence, us fighting back could be the fulfillment of their karma. How do karmic effects manifest, because some referee up in the skies passes a judgement? I think we gotta realize our role in this whole play, we're the ones that are saying, "no, we've had it with you, and if you're going to continue, we'll rout you." I don't see that as morally reprehensible. It's not "an eye for an eye," it's "stop picking our eyes or we'll kill you." It's not about doing to them what they've done to us, it's about defending ourselves against abuse. Even Gandhi said, "Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest."

    I think you can both ways complementary; 'sacred warfare' to affect changes on a higher level, but also physical warfare if it helps to defend those who want to develop freely and harmoniously. All these guidelines are of course open to interpretation, so there will be no clear cut situation. You can always only apply your discernment to the best of your ability and then go for it...

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  3. Link to Post #262
    Avalon Member Freed Fox's Avatar
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    Default Re: LRH (L. Ron Hubbard)

    I agree with most of what you're saying Christian, but there is a caveat. If one takes the karmic stance, then it is not our own self-defense that would provide the balance. Rather, from that point of view, our own depopulation is exactly what we've had coming. How many species have become extinct as a result of human practices? Scientists concede that the current extinction rate planet wide is at least 10 times greater than the historic background rate. To drive even one other species to extinction would warrant our own, and we have done it many times over.

    There are those who would claim that all of those harmful practices are the result of alien interference/manipulation/influence but that is simply an arrogant, unrealistic, and narcissistic fantasy which seeks to deny any responsibility.

    I agree however that all which is will continue to be, and killing is not extermination (and as an extension, concede that killing may be right in certain circumstances). However, to do so without utmost discernment and righteousness will undoubtedly incur negative karma and besmirch the spirit. As Fred rightly pointed out, it can become a slippery slope into tyranny and further wickedness.

    Thankfully, it seems that Jim indicates that bloody warfare is not to be the result of our defense, if he is right and any of this carries weight. I can deal with exile to an alternate/parallel universe as a solution if that is the case.
    Mercy, forgiveness, and compassion are the most virtuous forms of love
    Let your heart not be hardened by injustice and tribulation

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    United States Administrator ThePythonicCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: LRH (L. Ron Hubbard)

    Quote Posted by Fred Steeves (here)
    Quote Posted by Christine (here)
    As a mod my opinion would be to leave the thread where it is. I don't see this as solely channeled material, certainly the body of work of LRH would not be considered channeled and since this is the title of thread we are covering a large data base of material.
    Hi Christine. What about some sort of a thread merger. Just one thread entitled something like: "All Things Ron Hubbard And Scientology"? Something akin to Kreagle's "Bible Thread".

    Personally anyway, I don't want to keep seeing new "The Greatness And Miracles Of Ron Hubbard...It's The Only Way" type threads popping up, because the topic has shifted gears from Battlefield Earth to the E-Meter.
    There is not presently an excess of such threads, and I see no need to insist on exactly one such now, out of concern that there might be such an excess at some time in the future.

    We can cross that bridge when (and if) the water rises.

    My quite dormant website: pauljackson.us

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    Default Re: LRH (L. Ron Hubbard)

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by Fred Steeves (here)
    Quote Posted by Christine (here)
    As a mod my opinion would be to leave the thread where it is. I don't see this as solely channeled material, certainly the body of work of LRH would not be considered channeled and since this is the title of thread we are covering a large data base of material.
    Hi Christine. What about some sort of a thread merger. Just one thread entitled something like: "All Things Ron Hubbard And Scientology"? Something akin to Kreagle's "Bible Thread".

    Personally anyway, I don't want to keep seeing new "The Greatness And Miracles Of Ron Hubbard...It's The Only Way" type threads popping up, because the topic has shifted gears from Battlefield Earth to the E-Meter.
    There is not presently an excess of such threads, and I see no need to insist on exactly one such now, out of concern that there might be such an excess at some time in the future.

    We can cross that bridge when (and if) the water rises.

    the problem is we are not in the same time frame ... my nights might be your days ...so when I got here is all this think I have to answer or get through. One reason why I prefer not to be in USA is I can go to an American party and everyone is in competition to own the center of the table ...so if I try to get a few words in those more gifted with words will quickly kick you out of the conversation so I go sit down next to my guitar and someone ask me to sing something ... so I open up my guitar and another person passes by and turns the music up so high that I won't be able to be heard if I sing anyway ... just no fun going to an american party ... It is much more fun to go to a Japanese party ... where they share the conversation and will pass the conversation to you and let you into their group.

    and it is kind of like that here ... I state something and people will come up with their think of what they think my think is ... so I try to correct it and go through all the statements made and try to get a duplication of what I am trying to say... the thing is when I started this more than 45 years ago I was getting all the phenomenon happening and it was not coming from people. It was coming from events around me and what I kept running into while I was on the road with a guitar and no place to sleep. so I would do things like flip coins to try to get an answer from a god or who ever I thought I was in contact with ... I would ask the question and it would come up heads ... and I didn't like the answer so I flipped the coin again.... and again until I got 6 heads in a row ... so I would look up and say "ok I will accept 6 heads as a yes answer' ... then get 6 more heads .. and 6 more heads ... then a continuous heads tails heads tails when I am trying to figure out the answer and then another 6 heads and another 6 heads .... impossible to happen. next morning I don't want to believe it and I really don't want to be responsible for trying to salvage this planet . just want to go back and do my music ... but the phenomenon keeps happening ,.. all the rides I try to get to get out of Los Angeles keeps going in a huge circle and I end up that night exactly where I was that morning on the freeway entrance that I started from ... so whatever was doing this wasn't going to say no ... so I said, to this something in the sky, "ok I will salvage the place and then I will go back to my music" ... I thought that this wasn't going to take a long time ... one of the questions I asked was "do I have something in me that is needed to get out to salvage this planet" .. 6 heads yes ... so I thought when I found scientology all I had to do was meet LRH and get him to audit me and get whatever the message was or what was in me he needed and I would be done and I could go back to my music. but it wasn't that simple to meet LRH ... no matter what I did and what org I joined I couldn't get to him ... so then he dies ... and I just went on a bit more and dropped it. he was the only one that could open up what was in me. They would have to need his approval of anything new that came in.

    So I don't know how to do this forum ... just tell the story and let everyone get their own think from it ... or what ever they want out of it ... I don' t have any training as an auditor to get it out myself ... and I don't have the funds to pay for it ... which is funny ... try to run any of these postulates to help myself is nearly impossible ... it is too close to me and puts me into too much of an effort so creates too much counter effort and so I have to get my money from actual work I do.

    So trying to do this forum ... I made a new thread if I think it is important to say ... I am a tech person and worked on electronics for NASA companies for 15 years and I presented a technical viewpoint ... how to title it i don't know . if anyone else wants to change the title they are welcome to do it.

    jim

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    Canada Avalon Member gigha's Avatar
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    Default Re: LRH (L. Ron Hubbard)

    Why do we look to other people to give us the answers when we already have them?

    Does it really matter what others say?

    Can we not come to the realization that we are all one.

    When I say that I mean every peace of energy, every thought, every time you eat, each step, each breath, every heartbeat, every time you step on a bug. Sunset, Sunrise. Get the picture

    And every time "we" make a mistake.. We do it as one big source of energy that "we" call life

    I should also add that just because you look human does not mean that you are

    I should also add this. Please listen.


    peace gigha
    Last edited by gigha; 17th May 2013 at 06:12. Reason: to add THEM

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    Default Re: LRH (L. Ron Hubbard)

    Quote Posted by christian (here)
    Quote Posted by Padmé (here)
    Especially interesting to know how many Scientologists there are on this forum...
    Just because someone has knowledge of a cult doesn't mean he is an adherent to it, cf. this thread.
    Jiminii... do you consider yourself to be a Scientologist?

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    Default Re: LRH (L. Ron Hubbard)

    ok my weekend starts now ... anyone got any questions ask them now .. any questions is ok ...I can see where this is going and I will tell you if I can answer it or not ..something entering me and It seems to be putting me to sleep ... I can feel this is coming from LRH .. he did this once before ... came into me when I couldn't get my Japanese wife back and blew all my H E and R one after another ... what is H E and R ... Human emotion and reaction ... I would go to tears and it would just blow .. gone ... I would get upset about it ... gone .. I would get angry ... gone ..every emoticon gone gone gone .... and this most beautiful theta energy surrounded me ... never had anyone do this to me in my life. it couldn't be coincidental ... I looked up ... and said .. "Ron... is that you ??? '' and this entity was gone ... it is putting the gentle warm pressure against my forehead ... so I got to go with it ... you can ask the questions .. when I wake up I can answer them ... I really don't know what he wants me to do this time ... I just got to see what will happen\

    jim

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    Default Re: LRH (L. Ron Hubbard)

    Quote Posted by jiminii (here)
    ok my weekend starts now ... anyone got any questions ask them now .. any questions is ok ...
    Hi Jiminii, would you mind answering a few of my so far unanswered questions? Starting with the one above... Thank you

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    Default Re: LRH (L. Ron Hubbard)

    Quote Posted by Padmé (here)
    Quote Posted by christian (here)
    Quote Posted by Padmé (here)
    Especially interesting to know how many Scientologists there are on this forum...
    Just because someone has knowledge of a cult doesn't mean he is an adherent to it, cf. this thread.
    Jiminii... do you consider yourself to be a Scientologist?
    it wasn't my mission to be a scientologist ... they pulled me up in the UFO to let me know that I had met the right people .. I was to remain external to it all like an observer to see really what the effects and outcome was of scientology ... my mission was different before ... but they pulled me up in the UFO to change it ... so I was to go in and test out the tech ... with OT abilities .. but they did not want me audited because I am a natural clear .. never been born before and they didn't want anyone to know where I came from and what we were trying to do ...if scientology succeeded I could then help them .. if it failed then I was to use my powers to stop the planet from being taken over by the reptilians ... this is what my story is ... I am living proof that we are gods and if you see all the things I did you wouldn't believe any of it ... this was to be used to let others know they can be the same as me if they will honestly apply the tech and really learn it ... and make it work for them ... but it went to useless people who had the money to pay for it and the purpose was changed ... it was not setup like it should be to allow anyone a way to reach his full potential ... I saw more abused people than you can imagine .. worked for years and never even got up to clear ..but since this is a part of my spirit ... and LRH is just another part of my spirit .. I got heavily wounded .. I didn't attack them because any auditing is better than none ... i just had to wait my time until I could deliver a blow to the enemy and I am doing it now.
    this is not against LRH .. but those who betrayed him he and I both did the impossible ... and all i need to get is get some crystal or rainbows next to me and play games like start up the wind and she will pick it up being in my space and she will turn on the same things that happened to me ... then we ccan get some gods working with us who have no karma ... and then teach them the phoenix lectures and try to locate their other bodies .or viewpoints .. and you will not believe how much it will open them up and all done in a short time and naturally not like giving them a library of the entire universe to study first ... they already know ...
    jim
    Last edited by jiminii; 17th May 2013 at 15:10.

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    Nepal Avalon Member InCiDeR's Avatar
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    Default Re: LRH (L. Ron Hubbard)

    Hi Jim,

    what is your think about Monica Pignotti (OT III and full-fledged Flag Class VI auditor, member of the Sea Organization, the elite inner-circle of Scientology) and her view on Hubbards teachings?

    I posted some of her story here

    Do you se her as a SP that is "stack" in one incident and talks natter?

    Do you think her experience and perception have same value and reality as yours?


    Thanks in advance

    InCiDeR
    Last edited by InCiDeR; 17th May 2013 at 16:33.
    I don't necessarily believe what I think,
    neither do I always think what I believe

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    Default Re: LRH (L. Ron Hubbard)

    Quote Posted by InCiDeR (here)
    Hi Jim,

    what is your think about Monica Pignotti (OT III and full-fledged Flag Class VI auditor) and her view on Hubbards teachings?

    I posted some of her story here

    Do you se her as a SP that is "stack" in one incident and talks natter?

    Do you think her experience and perception have same value and reality as yours?


    Thanks in advance

    InCiDeR
    I didn't come here to talk about the ills of scientology ,,, I came here to tell the story of me ... and how I learned how to get my abilities by no more than reading the books and practicing it .. by myself ..
    I then went into Scientology to test it ... all my postulates were senior to the entire org and I made the statistics go up on the weeks I picked in every org including flag and they were highest ever statistics every week that I picked ... I tried to get others in scientology to learn it .. because I didn't want to be there ... I just wanted to finish what I promise myself .. salvage this planet and go to doing my music ..it all started with phenominon that took me by surprised and convinced me that if I didn't do it ... there would be no one to sing to anyway.

    that is the only reason I went
    was to show them it can be done
    then I have finished my promise and can turn the hat over to them ... but .. they just could not duplicate it ...and I now know why ... they have to allow everyone a chance .. but if 7 out of 10 are minions .. they will not be able to create this kind of power ... it would only rely on the few that could...

    so I decided to do it exterior to them ... sit out here in the real world and just make the planet safe like being a body the size of this planet .. and I use a lot of clever ways to make the planet more positive ... like making my space the size of the planet and raising the vibration... smile at everyone .. make life fun for me .. and I permeate this into the beingness with the space the size of this planet and everything around me gets better


    jim

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    Default Re: LRH (L. Ron Hubbard)

    Quote Posted by jiminii (here)
    Quote Posted by InCiDeR (here)
    Hi Jim,

    what is your think about Monica Pignotti (OT III and full-fledged Flag Class VI auditor) and her view on Hubbards teachings?

    I posted some of her story here

    Do you se her as a SP that is "stack" in one incident and talks natter?

    Do you think her experience and perception have same value and reality as yours?


    Thanks in advance

    InCiDeR
    I didn't come here to talk about the ills of scientology ,,, I came here to tell the story of me ... and how I learned how to get my abilities by no more than reading the books and practicing it .. by myself ..
    I then went into Scientology to test it ... all my postulates were senior to the entire org and I made the statistics go up on the weeks I picked in every org including flag and they were highest ever statistics every week that I picked ... I tried to get others in scientology to learn it .. because I didn't want to be there ... I just wanted to finish what I promise myself .. salvage this planet and go to doing my music ..it all started with phenominon that took me by surprised and convinced me that if I didn't do it ... there would be no one to sing to anyway.

    that is the only reason I went
    was to show them it can be done
    then I have finished my promise and can turn the hat over to them ... but .. they just could not duplicate it ...and I now know why ... they have to allow everyone a chance .. but if 7 out of 10 are minions .. they will not be able to create this kind of power ... it would only rely on the few that could...

    so I decided to do it exterior to them ... sit out here in the real world and just make the planet safe like being a body the size of this planet .. and I use a lot of clever ways to make the planet more positive ... like making my space the size of the planet and raising the vibration... smile at everyone .. make life fun for me .. and I permeate this into the beingness with the space the size of this planet and everything around me gets better


    jim

    I wonder, did you read what she was saying?

    She is talking about her life experience, Hubbards teachings, the techs, the technique and how she experienced those... exactly what you are doing here... so I do not really see the difference between your stories. Please advise!
    I don't necessarily believe what I think,
    neither do I always think what I believe

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    Default Re: LRH (L. Ron Hubbard)

    Quote Posted by InCiDeR (here)
    I do not really see the difference between your stories. Please advise!
    Some people get seriously messed up by their experience with the 'Church'.

    That leaves them -- justifiably! -- bitter, resentful, critical and hostile.

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    Default Re: LRH (L. Ron Hubbard)

    Quote Posted by InCiDeR (here)
    Hi Jim,

    what is your think about Monica Pignotti (OT III and full-fledged Flag Class VI auditor, member of the Sea Organization, the elite inner-circle of Scientology) and her view on Hubbards teachings?

    I posted some of her story here

    Do you se her as a SP that is "stack" in one incident and talks natter?

    Do you think her experience and perception have same value and reality as yours?


    Thanks in advance

    InCiDeR
    some people have a button on control ... and the sea org was designed very similar to the navy because LRH found it more efficient ... and also can lower cost of operation \
    so this is like all the basic courses you take to learn how to operate like the military ... so if you operate like the military you have to follow all these rules and protocol ... so it might be a key in to some earlier similar that makes her feel like this. she is just not taking responsibility and deciding to be cause ... and take charge of her post and work it .. so she becomes effect and complains that it is the tech making her effect ... she just can't duplicate the tech ..

    jim

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  29. Link to Post #275
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    Default Re: LRH (L. Ron Hubbard)

    IChing...just because : )

    "Is Jim bringing the truth of Hubbard for the betterment of all now?"

    ...

    13. T'ung Jên - Fellowship with Men

    -----
    ----- above Ch'ien The Creative, Heaven
    -----
    -----
    -- -- below Li The Clinging, Flame
    -----

    The Judgement

    Fellowship with Men in the open.
    Success.
    It furthers one to cross the great water.
    The perseverance of the superior man furthers.

    The Image

    Heaven together with fire:
    The image of Fellowship with Men.
    Thus the superior man organizes the clans
    And makes distinctions between things.

    Changing Lines

    Changing yang at the bottom means:
    Fellowship with men at the gate.
    No blame.

    Changing yin in the second place means:
    Fellowship with men in the clan.
    Humiliation.

    Changing yang in the third place means:
    He hides weapons in the thicket;
    He climbs the high hill in front of it.
    For three years he does not rise up.

    Changing yang in the fourth place means:
    He climbs up on his wall; he cannot attack.
    Good fortune.

    Changing yang in the fifth place means:
    Men bound in fellowship first weep and lament,
    But afterward they laugh.
    After great struggles they succeed in meeting.

    Changing yang at the top means:
    Fellowship with men in the meadow.
    No remorse.

    ...adding

    And if You happen to be one of the 3 out of 10, it does not make you better but simply more responsible and more open to the intent on doing the work to help change for the overall betterment....I understand this should be obvious but with some of the questions thrown at Jim, well, I put it out there again.
    And some of the questions go round and round in the manner of who are you to mess with things because you'll mess them up...no, we put intention out to un-mess things, our own true heartfelt intentions...it can't get anymore messed up then it already is by the 'damagers' that have been doing the messing up for very very long time. Simply step up and do some good...if you choose to.
    Last edited by eaglespirit; 17th May 2013 at 19:09.

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  31. Link to Post #276
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    Default Re: LRH (L. Ron Hubbard)

    As far as I can see (hopefully a little bit beyond my nose) here is the big stumbling block about everyone is running into:

    Most of us have already heard it before, this "If you let us teach you and you are willing to acquire our knowledge, you'll be "gods" like us!" You know, Adam, Eve, the snake and the apple?

    However, and this is where keen discernment is badly needed, the above carrot was presented to a people that were "fallen angels"/gods, a euphemism for being sent to jail on a prison planet... fallen into disgrace from the "Olympus" of some "Galactic confederation." Nice psyop!

    The misdirection/disinfo is that this "If you let us teach you and you are willing to acquire our knowledge, you'll be "gods" like us!" was -- has been, and is being -- promulgated and promoted as the words of tricksters whose sole interest was/is to enslave us.

    The promoters of the "It's a trick" (mis-)direction conveniently omit(ted) to mention that we were/are already slaves in a prison planet jail... fallen into disgrace from a galactic "Olympus."

    These OT abilities speak to the core of every child through fairy tales... to be told later on: "Nah! It's like Santa Claus... just fantasies, myths and fables..." Another psyop.

    Were these fairy tales designed as precursor tests to locate individuals with OT and psychic abilities, gone to industrial proportions with the like of MKultra?

    Hence, people with remaining OT abilities that could move mountains were the subject of witch hunts from the dawn of time via the "Holy Inquisition" and up to MKultra and the likes.

    Why?

    Because these OT abilities are right in the face of their "You are made of mud and it's all mud from here on to nowhere!" It flies in the teeth of the "It's all genetics, you were born this way..." and the hereditary bloodlines, aristocracy and any ritualistic, ceremonial pomp of "god's" chosen king/queen that's mirroring the reptilian/mantid/cat people/all sorts of greys and "blondes" that's "up there"...

    Well, here is an account on how it's done "up there":

    Excerpts from 1952 lectures:
    Quote An Invader Force is an electronic people. The electronic people usually happen to be an evolutionary line which is on heavy gravity planets and, so, develop electronics. At some time along the line it took off, in its youth, to conquer the whole MEST universe. Physical forms: any that matched the earlier purpose of this group. They've usually got some gimmick like Fac One. Control has been the main thing : The way to control territory is to control people.

    There are 5 Invader Forces active. Some of you hit the track 60 trillion years ago -- MEST universe -- and some of you didn't get into the MEST universe until 3 trillion years ago : That's Invader Force 1 and Invader Force 2. We don't see anything of Invader Force 3 here on Earth. Invader Force 4 is really holding the fort some place or other [e.g., Mars].


    Electronics - whether it's thought or otherwise, it just makes 2 classification of people. Because you'll find they battle. And you'll see this fight going on right now in modern engineering. You go around to a modern engineering lab and you say to these people: “Now, you take the human mind...” and they say: "you take it!" They don't like it.

    And you'll find thought people who go around - and you go around to them and you say: "Hey, here is this electronic gadget..." And they say: "Nyaaw! What!" They don't want anything to do with this.

    This same person at some phase of his development was a thought person and at some other phase was an electronics person. But what he has in restimulation in this life is his thought phase or his electronics phase, and so he will react adversely to thought or electronics... so has randomity appeared in the past.

    Now, way back along the line, you'll find various strange and terrible things happening to people and don't overlook the fact that they did strange and terrible things. Now, here is the first point of confusion in these techniques: who was "they"?

    Who was "they"? YOU! The villain in the piece was you [fighting the other 1/2 of the universe]. the hero in the piece was you! The people who were on neither side, that was you too. In other words, you want to know who did it to you, well, you did. Nobody did it to you but you.

    You talk about drama. Well, don't be amazed at anything your preclear comes up with... and you'll find out that there are various peoples as part of Invader Force One [60 trillions years ago = old timers]. Have been on the track for an awful long time. The reason you say invader force at all is because at some time along the line, fairly early in its youth, it took off to conquer the whole MEST universe: gobble, glop. And you succeeded, of course, until Invader Force II came along and you got rickety. And by that time you'd probably evolved into this and that or changed into thought people or taken up religion or gone into monasteries or something of the sort because of overt acts. You became a thought people. And all of a sudden, out of nowhere - and without any provocation from you... of course! - Invader Force II suddenly showed up, gunned you down, manhandled you, kicked you over, put you into bodies, made slaves out of you who had been emperors and kings, and Invader Force II which you represent.

    Then you, as a thought person, suddenly made into a slave, would cruise along for a while and one day you'd be sitting in this society and somebody would get this wonderful idea that this is the way you ought to put electronics together so they go "boom!" or so they fly out the tail end of a jet or so that they form up antigravity repulsers or something - somebody gets a big idea about electronics, and there you go. And you're out and way out in space and zingity-bang and over to the next planet, or the next continent even. And you gun them down and you set up the same sort of situations out of desperation, because the second you start to run into a thought people who don't have any MEST bodies, you say: "this is very unhandy” and you make sure they have MEST bodies right soon. [dramatization of earlier incident on the track].

    So, you've been in and out of bodies. You've been thought people, you've been this, you've been that. You've been sheep, goats, spaceness, space officers; you've been governors, kings, princes, ditch diggers, slaves, glaziers, carpenters, bricklayers, amusement park barkers, operators. You have turned planets into parks and parks into cinders. You, at one time or another on the track, have had weapons in your hands of sufficient magnitude to just say: "Boom!" and the whole planet goes. And sometimes you didn't care whether you used it or not. Interesting.

    Now if they're an experienced invader force, they've got it all rigged. It'll run off by rote. They'll pick up these people one by one and they'll say: "Well, you've got to come over here and register. And of course the fellow walks over, registers. A light flashes, the guy's past life, everything about him, goes out; he remembers no more. Sometimes this fellow turns around and walks back to his own group and says: "Nothing happened." and the next guy and the next guy.

    Or they'll come in and they'll sell all the aristocracy in the area the idea that "This is the way you can really control these people. Now, we are going to put weapons of control in your hands. Now, just step right up, sign here. Next one!" they get the aristocracy under control and control the people from there. In other words, control has been the main thing. How do you control territory? The way you control territory is control people.
    Quote If you want to know something about cold blooded brutality and why people here on Earth are so completely, horribly fixated on "let's be kind", and "Let's get it organized one way or the other", it is the utter, brutal disregard for beingness which you find throughout the systems. What you have here and consider humanitarian and so forth is a very interestingly built-up system. There's a caste system which is exercised in other parts of the solar system which would appall the most viciously minded duke [Sade, marquis de] who ever lived on Earth. There's slavery, and what men are put to in that slavery... how men are treated and so forth.
    Quote So, you're looking around for brutality and what's mauling your preclear around and why he's in apathy and so forth - you'd better re-adjust your sights again as to what it takes to aberrate a being. It takes plenty! Takes a terrific magnitude of incident to do anything to a thetan - up in the billion volt category.
    Quote A 5th Invader Force officer carries a doll. They don't carry bodies, they carry dolls. Their identification is a doll. It's a very little flimsy mechanical affair that you can make talk and walk and so forth: they're cute, they are about 1 m. tall, they're very light - you don't use oxygen in saucers. You have this little doll and the thetan energy that a fellow puts out is quite sufficient to monitor the control switchboard in the back of the doll, that's all. And he tunes it up: He's got this wavelength tuned to it and so on and he can walk it around... [hence all these stories of computers going berserk and people fearing computers getting intelligent, HAL, etc... have another look at "Oblivion"...]
    Now, and also, have another look at the top of this page, you know, the Project Avalon banner...

    The simple choice is: are the "science/electronic" and the "spiritual/thought" people gonna again meet on a battle field? Or in a conference room?
    Last edited by Hervé; 26th May 2013 at 20:37.

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  33. Link to Post #277
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    Default Re: LRH (L. Ron Hubbard)

    Quote Posted by eaglespirit (here)
    IChing...just because : )

    "Is Jim bringing the truth of Hubbard for the betterment of all now?"

    ...

    13. T'ung Jên - Fellowship with Men

    -----
    ----- above Ch'ien The Creative, Heaven
    -----
    -----
    -- -- below Li The Clinging, Flame
    -----

    The Judgement

    Fellowship with Men in the open.
    Success.
    It furthers one to cross the great water.
    The perseverance of the superior man furthers.

    The Image

    Heaven together with fire:
    The image of Fellowship with Men.
    Thus the superior man organizes the clans
    And makes distinctions between things.

    Changing Lines

    Changing yang at the bottom means:
    Fellowship with men at the gate.
    No blame.

    Changing yin in the second place means:
    Fellowship with men in the clan.
    Humiliation.

    Changing yang in the third place means:
    He hides weapons in the thicket;
    He climbs the high hill in front of it.
    For three years he does not rise up.

    Changing yang in the fourth place means:
    He climbs up on his wall; he cannot attack.
    Good fortune.

    Changing yang in the fifth place means:
    Men bound in fellowship first weep and lament,
    But afterward they laugh.
    After great struggles they succeed in meeting.

    Changing yang at the top means:
    Fellowship with men in the meadow.
    No remorse.

    ...adding

    And if You happen to be one of the 3 out of 10, it does not make you better but simply more responsible and more open to the intent on doing the work to help change for the overall betterment....I understand this should be obvious but with some of the questions thrown at Jim, well, I put it out there again.
    And some of the questions go round and round in the manner of who are you to mess with things because you'll mess them up...no, we put intention out to un-mess things, our own true heartfelt intentions...it can't get anymore messed up then it already is by the 'damagers' that have been doing the messing up for very very long time. Simply step up and do some good...if you choose to.
    it is because people have been trained to take down the big being ... here I am even trying to teach them how to do it themselves ... but the first reaction to finding a big being is find some way to bring him down because he is dangerous ... but the truth is ... only the good can really have power ... because the basic nature of a spirit is to be good ...the bad deep inside will not allow themselves to have power subconsciously

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  35. Link to Post #278
    Nepal Avalon Member InCiDeR's Avatar
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    Default Re: LRH (L. Ron Hubbard)

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by InCiDeR (here)
    I do not really see the difference between your stories. Please advise!
    Some people get seriously messed up by their experience with the 'Church'.

    That leaves them -- justifiably! -- bitter, resentful, critical and hostile.

    Oh, I apologize Bill, I was not aware that you were another viewpoint of Jim.
    Because I thought I directed that question to Jim!?

    ...and let me guess, your statement necessarily has to be true for her and all others that have a different view on Hubbards teachings? But not for anyone that find Hubbards teachings to be spot on, they are all intergrated, solid, non critical, non hostile etc etc...

    //
    Quote Posted by jiminii (here)
    (…)NO MORE MONSANTO ... and they will just drop like flies ... you see everyone who tried to stop me when I tried to join the sea org of scientology once got sick ... so they were forced to let me join ... but I guess I could have gotten rid of the infiltration too ... but this body didn't know at the time until way later ... but I know I have the power to handle just about anything ... so another way to handle Monsanto and the chem trails is put the postulate out and have anyone that works for these organizations get sick and never get well until they stop doing what they are doing (…)
    Post #186

    No hostility here?! I guess no one working for Monsanto or the sea org is a decent person with a family? Not that it matters whether they are decent or not in my opinion, because I personally don't believe in this kind of solution.

    //

    Therefore we should not have a balanced discussion, just present one side of the story yes?

    The hard part is to keep an open mind even after you found what you believe in, and dare to challenge it.

    Personally I found many things in the core of Hubbards teachings very interesting and worthwhile testing, as I do with many other religious, spiritual, alternative and scientific teachings. I find threads like "Horus-Ra", "EGO-what is it", "Holographic universe" "The Matrix Deciphered" , "The Technological Revolution: Artificial Intelligence and the Invisible Plague" among the best threads in Avalon.

    And I do think that implants, reactive mind and alien control are very important to consider and discuss in a balanced manner. Because I do like to keep an open mind even after I found what my current belive system is...

    By the way. I had a friend of a friend test an E-meter on me. No matter what question he throw at me, it kept a "floating needle". He thought it was broken, so he brought out his reserve. Same result. Where does that leave me? ...
    Last edited by InCiDeR; 17th May 2013 at 21:12.
    I don't necessarily believe what I think,
    neither do I always think what I believe

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  37. Link to Post #279
    Avalon Member music's Avatar
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    Default Re: LRH (L. Ron Hubbard)

    Quote Oh, I apologize Bill, I was not aware that you were another viewpoint of Jim.
    Because I thought I directed that question to Jim!?
    Jim has many voices here InCiDeR, in fact this has all the hallmarks of a well-orchestrated campaign, such as a, oh, I don't know, a psy-op, or perhaps an info-mercial. There is no doubt that there is an agenda here, all the mods are on board for example, and there are many, many things of concern or clues for those who still have eyes to see.

    But of course, this is just my opinion, just as Dane Tops' (not his real name) opinion is just his. This train is not for me, obviously, but for those happy to hop on board, y'all enjoy the ride.

    Padme, being an info-mercial, your pertinent questions will never get answered. The only questions answered in an info-mercial are the ones posed by the stooges. Like an info-mercial too, we also have here the prompters - "tell us more Jim" "this information came at exactly the right time Jim" "great re-activation Jim" blah blah blah.

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  39. Link to Post #280
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    Default Re: LRH (L. Ron Hubbard)

    Quote Posted by music (here)
    Jim has many voices here InCiDeR, in fact this has all the hallmarks of a well-orchestrated campaign, such as a, oh, I don't know, a psy-op, or perhaps an info-mercial. There is no doubt that there is an agenda here, all the mods are on board for example, and there are many, many things of concern or clues for those who still have eyes to see.

    But of course, this is just my opinion, just as Dane Tops' (not his real name) opinion is just his. This train is not for me, obviously, but for those happy to hop on board, y'all enjoy the ride.

    Padme, being an info-mercial, your pertinent questions will never get answered. The only questions answered in an info-mercial are the ones posed by the stooges. Like an info-mercial too, we also have here the prompters - "tell us more Jim" "this information came at exactly the right time Jim" "great re-activation Jim" blah blah blah.
    Have you been reading my mind, music?

    For what it´s worth, I´m sensing very manipulative and insidious energies around here lately...Call it what you want; All I know is that I don´t like it.

    Big seductive claims, backed up by nothing but empty words in a computer screen, accompanied by strange complacent and docile questions, followed by obvious answers as predictable as cheap TV commercial scripts.

    I don´t know...I just have a strong sense that there really is an agenda around here, and I´m not comfortable with it.

    Honestly, it´s rare to see so many intelligent people bewitched by such hollow argumentation and impressively arrogant remarks. Not a good sign, if you ask me.

    Watch your steps, all of you.

    Raf.
    Last edited by RMorgan; 17th May 2013 at 22:37.

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