Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Posted by bram (here)

Posted by Nanoo Nanoo (here)
Bram , what is a freezoner ?
N

Hi Nanoo,

It's a breakaway group from the Cof$, you can find it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Zone_(Scientology)

Love, bram

Thanks Bram

i immagine this is a better read ?

http://www.ronsorg.com/english/chartaenglish.html

the freedome indicative was used towards the end of the description.

Very impressive information , or should i say " data " ( i could get used to this stuff )

Captain bills speech did impress me muchly. I see now how badly distorted the true message of LRH is with all the negatives being thrown at CoS because of the take over and possibly deliberate cruel running of said enterprise to bring down the good name of the originators heart.

If it wasnt for this thread i could have just written off Scientology as another scam. Thankfully i didnt judge till i dug around and infiormed myself

Cheers

N

[bram]

Posted by Lisab (here)
@bram great insights. Your on a roll! I met a lady recently, here in my home town, who is a soul midwife. Her job is to ease the death transition for the terminally ill by giving the healing therapies such as reiki, reflexology, massage etc and of course just being a soothing presence with a listening ear. We expect a child to be abe to enter this world with as little trauma as possible, so why not leave the same way? Enjoying your input here x

Hi Lisab,

That's a great vocation, isn't it? My sister died in a hospice at age 46 and i was so impressed with the staff there and the quiet way they did their jobs (even though it was largely thru administering huge doses of morphine to the dying). I'm beginning to see death as a part of life, and to see that there is in fact, great beauty in death too.

Love, bram

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Posted by bram (here)

Posted by Lisab (here)
@bram great insights. Your on a roll! I met a lady recently, here in my home town, who is a soul midwife. Her job is to ease the death transition for the terminally ill by giving the healing therapies such as reiki, reflexology, massage etc and of course just being a soothing presence with a listening ear. We expect a child to be abe to enter this world with as little trauma as possible, so why not leave the same way? Enjoying your input here x

Hi Lisab,

That's a great vocation, isn't it? My sister died in a hospice at age 46 and i was so impressed with the staff there and the quiet way they did their jobs (even though it was largely thru administering huge doses of morphine to the dying). I'm beginning to see death as a part of life, and to see that there is in fact, great beauty in death too.

Love, bram

I agree , when one has an understanding that their life is eternal then death is not such a sad moment but reminder that a new chapter to the ever lasting soul is ready to begin.

N

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Of possible interest, here is a slightly edited copy of an e-mail I wrote to someone who had applied to join the forum a few days ago. They had been on staff in the Church of Scientology, before being declared 'Suppressive" and booted out after many years. Some of what I wrote may be helpful here.

Dear __________ ,

Many thanks for all the personal info you were generous enough to share.

You should very probably be hearing from the Avalon mods team (separately) about your application in the next day or two. There'll be instructions in the e-mail about how to proceed further that you should read carefully.

Re your message, I was never in the Church. 'Ron's Org' is a Free Zone group, very well-established and well-organized, which is active primarily in Europe and Russia (where there are hundreds of centers and many thousands of people) -- although there are a few Ron's Org auditors in the Americas and also in South Africa.

Ron's Org was founded by 'Captain' Bill Robertson in 1984 (known as 'CBR'), after he and thousands of others had left the Church in the great 1982-83 exodus. There's an enormous amount of information about this which I will be happy to connect you with -- but only if you are interested.

Having said just that, you may find it valuable to read this, which is an interview I did with Dane Tops, the author of the famous Dane Tops letter which I imagine you heard about when in the Church. Do take a look at it. It explains everything that happened.

http://projectcamelot.org/dane_tops.html

LRH's techniques DO work beautifully (if ethically and competently applied). CBR's further research in the 1980s opened the door to many other areas which either LRH did not know about, or never published. I completed my OT 16 in 2004, and am now several levels beyond that. It is a new world up there. Everything that LRH promised to be available, is achievable. He was right all along.

You need to understand that during your time in the Church you have been lied to, controlled, suppressed, mismanaged, misaudited, misjudged, and abused. It's a badge of honor to be declared Suppressive (in almost all cases!). Regard it as a validation, not an invalidation. It's like being in the French Resistance and being declared an enemy of the Nazis in WW II.

I was declared Suppressive because I was an outspoken enemy of the Church -- from outside, in the Free Zone.

Meanwhile, Avalon is not primarily about all this at all, and is truly eclectic: it deals with MANY important subjects concerned with global affairs and personal growth. It's just by happenstance that the cluster of LRH threads has appeared just now.

With all good wishes to you -- Bill

[dpwishy]

Bill-
I have been reading a lot about Rons Org.
Could you please explain the "Golden Middle" to me?
I assume its something along the line as the middle path in Buddhism and kabbalah traditions?

Also, could you explain how drugs interact with this process? And I dont mean interact with them in combination, but how drugs would hinder or disrupt this process. This information interests me as I am a shaman and someone who uses plants but I have seen how it hinders vipassana meditation. Where is the line drawn on what a drug is? How long of breaks are needed before auditing can happen between rituals? Are we talking anything that changes the homeostasis of the body or more harder type drugs? The sad truth and I am not sure if it applies in this aspect also but I have found Marijuana to be the light workers kryptonite and a huge hindrance to their work and path. It gives such a false sense of progression when you are really just staying stagnant. So many fall for this trap. I am not saying it does not have its role as an amazing teacher and medicine, but as I look around I find that its a stumbling block for many.

Thanks in advance.

[Hervé]

Posted by lakewatcher (here)
[...]

Now, to try to clarify further the point about language that I was trying to make in my own post. If we must literally take a course in Dianetic...

[...]

Something to consider in view of the "Glossary" that accompanied the first editions of the Dianetics book (of course one would have to know what a "glossary" is and means):

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)

Posted by Wantsthetruth74 (here)
ok so I have been reading the Dianetics book, skimming mainly because it is a lot. I have to be honest, it is putting me to sleep literally.

[...]

You might want to have a look at this post <--- especially the third one... the reason why all Scientology books have a warning about not going past a word the reader doesn't understand. The latter makes one yawn and feeling sleepy.

So, if you just skimmed through the book... you might have accumulated quite a number of those

One thing to remember, the language used in the Dianetics book was the current, common daily language in the 50s. Hence, if one finds it complicated or using Shakespeare's language... you know what to blame... US's "dumbing down" of its education level... so that one would need the MSM and "news" to do the "'splaining."

That's what causes a rejection of any subject and I do agree that the use of acronyms instead of full words is not conducive to increasing an affinity towards the subject.

LRH, seeing the decline of the education level -- thanks to the influence of the World Mental Health via the bankers with the sponsoring, funding and grants of schools and universities (search "Psychopolitics" to get the idea) -- designed a course on how to study any subject, the basic of which is laid out in the "Study Manual."

On the other hand, many terms have been defined at the beginning of this and other threads, along with links to "glossaries" and dictionaries, and it is taken for granted that one has read the thread from start instead of reading the last few posts...

[eaglespirit]

Posted by Nanoo Nanoo (here)

Posted by bram (here)

Posted by Nanoo Nanoo (here)
Bram , what is a freezoner ?
N

Hi Nanoo,

It's a breakaway group from the Cof$, you can find it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Zone_(Scientology)

Love, bram

Thanks Bram

i immagine this is a better read ?

http://www.ronsorg.com/english/chartaenglish.html

the freedome indicative was used towards the end of the description.

Very impressive information , or should i say " data " ( i could get used to this stuff )

Captain bills speech did impress me muchly. I see now how badly distorted the true message of LRH is with all the negatives being thrown at CoS because of the take over and possibly deliberate cruel running of said enterprise to bring down the good name of the originators heart.

If it wasnt for this thread i could have just written off Scientology as another scam. Thankfully i didnt judge till i dug around and infiormed myself

Cheers

N

Th BIG Clean Up...getting to the core of it all in every nook and cranny now in every facet of the manipulators
infiltration of all that is in and around our lives here, there and everywhere.

The massive turnaround enhancing upward mobility is so close I can taste it : )

[Fred Steeves]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
On the other hand, many terms have been defined at the beginning of this and other threads, along with links to "glossaries" and dictionaries, and it is taken for granted that one has read the thread from start instead of reading the last few posts...

All great masters throughout time have had the innate ability to condense and relay their knowledge in very simplistic terms, to any given audience, often in the form of story or parable that is easily understood.

They were/are also very humble in the fact that they were/are also a student, albeit on a much different level.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by dpwishy (here)
Bill-
I have been reading a lot about Rons Org.
Could you please explain the "Golden Middle" to me?
I assume its something along the line as the middle path in Buddhism and kabbalah traditions?

Also, could you explain how drugs interact with this process? And I dont mean interact with them in combination, but how drugs would hinder or disrupt this process. This information interests me as I am a shaman and someone who uses plants but I have seen how it hinders vipassana meditation. Where is the line drawn on what a drug is? How long of breaks are needed before auditing can happen between rituals? Are we talking anything that changes the homeostasis of the body or more harder type drugs? The sad truth and I am not sure if it applies in this aspect also but I have found Marijuana to be the light workers kryptonite and a huge hindrance to their work and path. It gives such a false sense of progression when you are really just staying stagnant. So many fall for this trap. I am not saying it does not have its role as an amazing teacher and medicine, but as I look around I find that its a stumbling block for many.

Thanks in advance.

Hi there, and many thanks (thanks also for the PM -- on my long list to reply!)

• I'm afraid I don't know what the "Golden Middle" refers to here. Maybe others can clarify. It's not a term which I use or have heard.
• Drugs generally interfere with auditing. If one has taken consciousness-altering (or even medical) drugs, one needs to allow a drug-free period before auditing will work properly. This is because (very condensed summary here) although one might be able to perceive a great deal, one's ability to ERASE things is inhibited (which is the whole idea: to get rid of stuff.) Even alcohol gets in the way -- one has to be alcohol-free for 24 hours before a session. With some drugs, it needs to be quite a bit longer.

[Hervé]

Posted by Fred Steeves (here)

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
On the other hand, many terms have been defined at the beginning of this and other threads, along with links to "glossaries" and dictionaries, and it is taken for granted that one has read the thread from start instead of reading the last few posts...

All great masters throughout time have had the innate ability to condense and relay their knowledge in very simplistic terms, to any given audience, often in the form of story or parable that is easily understood.

They were/are also very humble in the fact that they were/are also a student, albeit on a much different level.

True... and maybe the reason why there are so many interpretations to one parable and skirmishes as to what one word means or was intended to mean in the context of the original text (e.g. Sitchin and his "translation" of Sumerian tablets).

Whereas when one reads an engineering blue print, unless one is totally clueless about the lingua used, there is no squabble as to what it means nor how to go about building the design.

[Bhusunda]

This all resonates strongly in me and I want to dig deeper into it.
When I started to write down my life a few years ago, I got a huge boost from it, and literally made a jump in creativity and joy.
How much more must that be the case if one goes into more detail.

I am reading the book Self Analysis from Ron now as a PDF and it speaks of a disc one should use. Anyone has an idea how this disc looks like so I can reproduce it?

Apart from that the technique reminds me much of Castaneda's 'recapitulation' (Acitive Side of Infinity, Pg.142):

"Its time that you start one of the biggest projects of sorcery," Don Juan said.
"What is this project of sorcery that you are talking about, Don Juan?" I inquired.
"It's called recapitulation," he said. "The old sorcerers used to call it 'recounting of events of your life', and for them it started as a simple technique, a device to aid them in remembering what they were doing and saying to their disciples.
...
"The challenge I am faced with is that in a very compact unit of time I must cram into you everything there is to know about sorcery as an abstract proposition, but in order to do that I have to build the necessary space in you."
"What space? What are you talking about, Don Juan?"
"The premise of the sorcerers is that in order to bring something in, there must be a space to put it in," he said. If you are filled to the brim with the items of everyday life, there's no space for anything new. That space must be built. Do you see what I mean? The sorcerers of olden times believed that the recapitulation of your life made that space. It does, and much more, of course.
The way sorcerers perform the recapitulation is very formal," he went on. "It consists of writing a list of all the people they have met, from the present to the very beginning of their lives. Once they have that list, they take the first person on it and recollect everything they can about that person. And I mean everything, every detail.
...
What practitioners do is to recollect and breathe. They inhale slowly and deliberately, fanning the head from right to left, in a barely noticeable swing, and exhale in the same fashion."

[Hervé]

Posted by Bhusunda (here)
[...]

I am reading the book Self Analysis from Ron now as a PDF and it speaks of a disc one should use. Anyone has an idea how this disc looks like so I can reproduce it?

[...]

See this post <--- (click)

Or here:

http://projectavalon.net/Self_Analysis.pdf

[bram]

Posted by Bhusunda (here)
Apart from that the technique reminds me much of Castaneda's 'recapitulation'

yes, I thought that too. Although Castaneda doesn't elucidate very much about how recapitulation changed him, he does repeatedly say that it is the most important thing a sorcerer can do- especially because it includes recapturing all the experiences he had in altered consciousness, which are excluded from his normal conscious recollections (much like engrams).

Love, bram

[Daozen]

The recapitulation works for me, but I have to balance it with other meditations, exercise and good diet.... Otherwise the memories can be overwhelming.

I'm not into scientology, but I think Bill might be right that it started with good intentions and then got subverted.

You self-audit everytime you walk out the door. If something annoys/depresses you, you're not 'clear' on that particular emotional loop.

[kirolak]

Thanks, Teradactyl - I have worked with chakras for many years, & was just wondering whether there was any specific mention from LRH of a "wrong" way to work with them. . . . I do not know of anything that could permanently cause damage or "entrap" one, although some methods could lead to temporary imbalances & headaches, no more than that.

[Carmody]

Posted by Daozen (here)
The recapitulation works for me, but I have to balance it with other meditations, exercise and good diet.... Otherwise the memories can be overwhelming.

That is the whole issue and point. The emotional memories --- clouding, shaping, directing, interfering with thought formation.

to re-center, re-integrate all the neural and formative aspects for thought and most specifically..thought formation. Thoughts originate in the emotions and survival mechanisms (base programming), first.

Thoughts originate in the body integration/actuation, then proto-vocal, then rise into shape and then rise into word-meanings which come out as spoken word, internally spoken voice in the frontal lobe. The path your development took from birth to childhood, where the internal voice began at about age 5 (for most of us), that is the path of thought creation and expression. Every time we have a thought, that is the way it happens - a repeat of the path of development - every time.

Now recall the times your thoughts where clouded by emotions. Once can probably find that in the now, as in today some time, for most of us. Then one can understand what I speak of. emotions not controlling thought, but being deeply involved in the formation of thought. No emotional body clearing, no extreme intelligence and/or full body/dimensional connection. People can get that dimensional connection without the clearing of the self, but it will be, the vast number of cases...quite skewed and colored.

Thus, to be 'clear', is to be clear of the polarization, the change and alteration in the formation of thoughts. which requires a thorough clearing of the emotional self, the original self which we launch our projection into this space and place (dimension and connections) out of. It is also a two way connection.

One clearing ....brings about another.

Again, no dianetics experience, just old fashioned clearing of the self. And in that act, extreme health and meditation, etc..was required. This is to enable the correction to be as best it can. The brain, the physical vehicle must be enabled to be able to be it's best. This means a health regimen and a mediation regimen.


Edit: earthquake tremor.

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Quite a number of people have PMed me to ask me for advice and recommendations on contacting auditors.

This post is intended to be a catch-all pool of resources which I can link people to.

Avalon Member James Newell is also highly trained and experienced. He's based in the US, but works over Skype with people all over the world. His website is http://getmoreable.com.

Here are a few web pages which contain links to auditors:

1. https://web.archive.org/web/20170430...nksenglish.htm
2. http://freezoneauditors.org/auditor
3. http://freeandable.com/business-list...-auditors.html
4. http://internationalfreezone.net/cer...auditors.shtml

I can recommend everyone listed on the Ron's Org site (#1 above). There's also an active and thriving Ron's Org group in South Africa, and another excellent Ron's Org auditor in the Los Angeles area. Neither of the above are publicly listed, and neither are a number of other folks in Europe who I could recommend.

On the other three pages (#2,3,4 above), there are only a few auditors which I know. Having said that,

• I *can* recommend the Life Enhancement Center in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, at http://lifeenhance.org. I know the guys there, and one Avalon member whom I know has also spent a lot of highly productive time there.

I've heard good personal reports about the following:

• Ken Urquhart: kenneth.urquhart@gmail.com (highly experienced, and knew LRH personally, based in the UK)
• Rolf Dane: rolf_dane@yahoo.com and http://rolfdane.com (who works via Skype, based in Copenhagen)
• David St Laurence: david.stlawrence@gmail.com
• Robert Ducharme: allphaomega@earthlink.net (who works via Skype or telephone, based in Florida)
• The Clearbird group: info@clearbird.org, http://clearbird.org and http://freezoneearth.org/Clearbird/index.htm

I have no doubt there are many others. My not mentioning someone here might simply mean that I've never heard of them (and they might be excellent).

The following I do not know:

• Mark Robson (roppa_uk@hotmail.com, basic Dianetic auditing, as best I understand)
• Mike Maylam (Milton Keynes) -- but he may not be working at the moment (Write to the Ron's Org Committee at this link to ask: they speak good English)
• Victoria Ballard, near Brighton, so maybe not too far for Londoners to travel. (I do not know her e-mail address, but can find out.)

It's entirely possible that anyone you contact may in turn be able to recommend others. I'll be happy to assist (if I can) if, for instance, you make contact with someone and then would like to check out or clarify with myself what they have told you. You're can always contact me by PM, and non-member visitors to the forum are welcome to e-mail me at bill@projectavalon.net.

I hope this is not too much of a confusion. There are many individuals operating totally independently, not allied to any one group. Others work on personal reference only, and never publicize themselves. Ron's Org is a little different inasmuch as they accredit their auditors, and are a very efficient and effective organization. I know many of the people involved there (some of them very well), and can recommend them fully. But the drawback is that they are almost entirely situated in Europe and Russia.

[Agape]

Hello Bill . What about any ancient artifacts ? Did Ron Hubbard had any physical evidence or do some of his followers believe such evidence is hidden, in coverns of Nebraska for example .

[soleil]

i want to say thanks to bram, for your sharing of dianetics. i still havent gotten much farther in the DMSMH pdf yet, but i look forward to experiencing more ah ha moments/engrams.

[Hervé]

For the "new wave" of walk-outs establishing themselves as "Indies" or "Independents" and joining Ron's Org and the Freezoners in their "efforts" (not so much efforts anymore since Miscavige doesn't have a foot left to shoot) to spread Ron's "tech" in their vicinity:

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/

On the right hand side there is a blogroll of independents.

Marty himself, as well as his wife Monique AKA "Mosey" are auditors sticking to the original tech and approach to life.