Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

[jiminii]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)

Posted by TheVoyager (here)
[...]


Since Amzer Zo says that a HK session sounded to him as a Dianetics session with all its communications components, it might be fair at least to mention that HK does not use any external devices such as an e-meter.

[...]

As jiminii mentioned, "Book One" sessions are done without an e-meter.

Listening to Steve Richards recounts of some sessions, the parallels between Book One sessions and HK sessions are uncanny.

On the other hand, surrogate sessions are not part of the original Book One. However, HK surrogate sessions involve what jiminii talked about with "being the space" of the other person being processed and also involved surrendering the control of one's own space to another being in order for the surrogate session to take place.

That's not much different than jim being "audited"/processed via another body of his on "Base 2."

yes you audit one of the viewpoints and the other viewpoints get it too ... even if they are not aware of it .. life just starts changing for them because the viewpoint is not the spirit .. it is like putting on a helmet and this helmet takes over the body and feels and controls it .. but it is just one viewpoint of one body ... the spirit can create many and I guess it depends on how big the spirit is ..


jim

[Hervé]

On the other hand, this is also akin to "Bodies in Pawn" whereby someone, somewhere, somehow is hypnotized and ordered to take on a reptilian shape, then go to Washington DC and take over la Clinton when she is under the influence of that white stuff -- courtesy of her husband -- and make her do silly thing to discredit her... etc...

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
Excerpts (fair use) from various LRH lectures which give other ways to "occupy" more than one body:

Body in pawn: Something floating in fluid or under an electronic -- constant electronic bath. You'll find these described: They're lying on a pallet or something of the sort; the body is completely motionless. And at the foot of this will be something that looks like a window, and it's not a window. (This is at the origin of most of these abductions stories...)

Occasionally you'll run into a place where they're holding a body in pawn. That is, a body is held here, and it is hypnotized or knocked out and the person is told that he belongs here but must go over here and live. You know, a guy in Afghanistan is hypnotized and they say: "Now you live in Bremerton, Washington" and he'd go to Bremerton, Washington; he's under compulsion. A hypnotist will hypnotize somebody and make him travel or astral walk. Hypnotists know about this. Well, they didn't realize you could do it with magnitude, and you can. You can almost move the whole individual out.


Let me tell you some of the things that can be done to a human being, and understand that I am still talking about theta bodies because there's not any difference except a human being and his mind as he exists today - Homo Sapiens - it's just more of them.

You can hypnotize a human being or drug a human being and move him as a theta body, in all or in part, to remote distances and have him observe or act or communicate and move back to his body again. This has many descriptive phrases such as "astral walking". The point is that you can actually hypnotize yourself, this is one theta body hypnotizing another theta body inside yourself and send that other theta body off to some vast distance and observe something and have it come back and so on.

This is very common. Your hypnotist knows this manifestation very well. These are very elementary, quite well known manifestations. Self hypnosis is one line hypnotizing another line - in you.

[jiminii]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
On the other hand, this is also akin to "Bodies in Pawn" whereby someone, somewhere, somehow is hypnotized and ordered to take on a reptilian shape, then go to Washington DC and take over la Clinton when she is under the influence of that white stuff -- courtesy of her husband -- and make her do silly thing to discredit her... etc...

Excerpts from various LRH lectures which give other ways to "occupy" more than one body:

Body in pawn: Something floating in fluid or under an electronic -- constant electronic bath. You'll find these described: They're lying on a pallet or something of the sort; the body is completely motionless. And at the foot of this will be something that looks like a window, and it's not a window. (This is at the origin of most of these abductions stories...)

Occasionally you'll run into a place where they're holding a body in pawn. That is, a body is held here, and it is hypnotized or knocked out and the person is told that he belongs here but must go over here and live. You know, a guy in Afghanistan is hypnotized and they say: "Now you live in Bremerton, Washington" and he'd go to Bremerton, Washington; he's under compulsion. A hypnotist will hypnotize somebody and make him travel or astral walk. Hypnotists know about this. Well, they didn't realize you could do it with magnitude, and you can. You can almost move the whole individual out.


Let me tell you some of the things that can be done to a human being, and understand that I am still talking about theta bodies because there's not any difference except a human being and his mind as he exists today - Homo Sapiens - it's just more of them.

You can hypnotize a human being or drug a human being and move him as a theta body, in all or in part, to remote distances and have him observe or act or communicate and move back to his body again. This has many descriptive phrases such as "astral walking". The point is that you can actually hypnotize yourself, this is one theta body hypnotizing another theta body inside yourself and send that other theta body off to some vast distance and observe something and have it come back and so on.

This is very common. Your hypnotist knows this manifestation very well. These are very elementary, quite well known manifestations. Self hypnosis is one line hypnotizing another line - in you.

download the time track of theta tapes if you can find them on free zone somewhere
the commands for auditing are on the tapes ... and that is what trey audited me with.
it isn't what is in the standard line up .. because if trey is an Flag service org auditor class 12
he knows all the auditing that is done ... and this was the first time he has ever done these auditing commands from those tapes
and I think I know why ... LRH didn't want them ran ... because it would be easy to see what we were doing everywhere ..
and someone might find out we are running this piece of the time track again and try to interrupt it ..

so if you want to know look ... don't suddenly come up with some other why if you haven't checked the data I am talking about

jim

[Hervé]

Posted by jiminii (here)
[...]

... don't suddenly come up with some other why if you haven't checked the data I am talking about

jim

It's something which needs to be checked too, jim.

[jiminii]

yes since I am probably the only one on the planet anyone ever ran those auditing commands ,. the same phenomenon that inelia describes ... with all the light coming in and finding her right after ,..
it is like driving down that road and something puts the foot of mine on the brake so the car we can't see doesn't hit us

I can almost touch it ,.... but this website is awesome ... so many viewpoints ...

I thank you all ... for helping me to wake up ...

I admit I have been a bit cocky at some time ... but I don't need to anymore ... I can let that go ... found some friends that can somehow relate ..

nice
jim

[Czarek]

Posted by jiminii (here)
download the time track of theta tapes if you can find them on free zone somewhere
the commands for auditing are on the tapes ... and that is what trey audited me with.

Jim,
I've recently purchased a set of time track theta tapes and the ones I got do not have any commands for auditing.
See my post https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post681868

[jiminii]

Posted by Czarek (here)

Posted by jiminii (here)
download the time track of theta tapes if you can find them on free zone somewhere
the commands for auditing are on the tapes ... and that is what trey audited me with.

Jim,
I've recently purchased a set of time track theta tapes and the ones I got do not have any commands for auditing.
See my post https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post681868

they are on the tape where he talks about a spirit having more than one body ///
but I can ask cathy ... she has the original tapes

jim

[Limor Wolf]

I was refraining from asking a question on this thread which I thought the answer for that would for sure be a negative one. Bill wrote in his OP -

"This is about pragmatism. It's about what works: tools that are available for use"

Yes, but are Engrams recording mental image picture of something like abductions as well? How about mind control ? what happens in a situation when a person have alters? From which one (of his so called personalities) is he clearing then?
There is logic that the reactive mind will record situations where pain is ingrained with unconsciousness, but can Engrams be completely removed in such situations?

Well, Going through the 'Horus-Ra' thread just now I bumped into a post by TrumanCash which he posted a year ago and where Houman asked him:

" Are you still being abducted?

2.a If no, how did you stop it? (or did it stop on its own?)"

Truman then went to describe how he was able to decrease the amount of abductions and elaborated:

"I did not do this by myself. I was helped by two very experienced people who had been personally trained by L. Ron Hubbard. However, these two people are not members of the Church of Scientology nor am I. The techniques that I learned to recover my abduction memories as well as past life memories were also developed by Mr. Hubbard. I used the techniques in two of Mr. Hubbard's books--DIANETICS, THE MODERN SCIENCE OF MENTAL HEALTH (1950) and SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL (1951). As I mentioned in the EYE OF RA, I also once used what I call "light trance hypnosis" to verify some of my memories. It was not anything like stage hypnotism but was mostly just a relaxation technique."

I find this statment very interesting, I do not know if there was any reference here to alien abductions traumas and a possible successful clearing of that as a blocking factor in life, but I am happy to read Trumans words and would have been happy to ask him if this statment still stands even today

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post495790

[Hervé]

Posted by Limor (here)
[...] How about mind control ? what happens in a situation when a person have alters? From which one (of his so called personalities) is he clearing then?
There is logic that the reactive mind will record situations where pain is ingrained with unconsciousness, but can Engrams be completely removed in such situations?

[...]

This may, partly, answer your question: "The Greenbaum Speech"

However, the MKultra type of mind control is most probably the reason why LRH instituted a policy of refusing for processing anyone, due to experience in trying to do so, with a history of institutionalization or having gone through "government" clearance for "Secret" and above: too much trouble and also, possibly, plants creating trouble and blaming it on Dianetics/SCN processings.

Never mind supersoldiers like Duncan O'Finioan who prefer not to seek the help of deprogrammers to avoid finding them dead when coming out of a session...

[Ilie Pandia]

I have a question about the dianetics auditing. Can one still benefit from a session that is not in his mother tongue? I suspect things may get rather emotional as you get close to an engram so having to deal with a foreign language as well could be a problem.

[gralsfighter]

No doubt
you do benefit.

and for the auditing question part: Normaly its stricly forbidden to go over misunderstood words and let you do things you don't understand.

[Hervé]

Posted by Ilie Pandia (here)
I have a question about the dianetics auditing. Can one still benefit from a session that is not in his mother tongue? I suspect things may get rather emotional as you get close to an engram so having to deal with a foreign language as well could be a problem.

The auditor could always ask to clarify what it means or to translate, as well as ask if there could be any play on words with that foreign language, keeping in mind that the reactive mind takes things very litteraly. Also, the auditor could ask if there were any consequences in one's subsequent life from the specific wording recovered in an incident. When the "PC"/auditee realises something like:

"Oh, yeah... hahahaha... that's why I've been a knucklehead all my life... isn't that stupid... hahahehehe..." job done!

For example, if the mother needed a blood transfusion during her pregnancy or while giving birth and her blood type is B-, then the end result is both mother and child stuck with a post hypnotic command of "be negative" from someone ordering a B- blood type for the transfusion.

That command works for English speaking people but not necessarily for other languages.

[we-R-one]

I have a question I've been meaning to ask...So how does this ideology of clearing engrams, fit in with NDE's? It seems the typical experience of a NDE talks about soul growth and that life on Earth is merely an illusion and not real. This message seems consistent on every NDE I have looked at, which really hasn't been a ton, nor is my method of any scientific importance. I don't ever remember reading anything describing living on Earth as a prison planet of trapped souls if I'm understanding LRH's viewpoint. So to refresh my memory since so much has been posted and I can't sift through all of it again, can someone please revisit as to what the supposed purpose of being on Earth is and what are we basing this information on? Is it the channeling of one individual? Sorry I didn't ask this question sooner while all the info was fresh in my head and everyone elses.

[Hervé]

Posted by we-R-one (here)
I have a question I've been meaning to ask...So how does this ideology of clearing engrams, fit in with NDE's? It seems the typical experience of a NDE talks about soul growth and that life on Earth is merely an illusion and not real...

[...]

My, my, my... what confusion can be weaved around this subject...

First of all, clearing engrams is not an "ideology" (like Marxism) but a practical way of unburdening past emotional charge from one's mind/field. A practical way of doing something is called a technology.

Second, and IMO from what I understood of LRH materials on the subject, published NDEs accounts are a cosmic psyop/cointelpro designed to trap "souls" at the end of that "white light" beam and into an implant station to be readied and be send with a whitewashed memory back to the prison planet within the next 24 hours in search of a new body in maternity wards...

It's a cosmic psyop/cointelpro operation which sends back people to Earth with missions, life paths, etc... an indeed it's all an illusion for most people on Earth since those are under an hypnotic trance as much as any stage hypnotist product who believe to be a dog or a cat or living in paradise feeding off all these exotic fruits... those are the zombies, AKA sheeple, etc...

Remember that the "critters" out there who perform their daily quota of abductions are able to project into human minds any one's "loved ones" as an overlay over their real appearance as well as beam "love" vibrations in much the same way they can beam a heart attack à la Robert Duncan's brain heterodyning.

It's actually quite a process of industrial scale that has been operating for eons:

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
[...]

About other functioning bodies in other areas or off planet:

THE ROLE OF THE EARTH
November 1952
[excerpts, fair use]

I [LRH] took a little girl one night during a demonstration and put her on the E-Meter - started questioning her and the next thing you knew this little girl was shaking in such a degree that the chair legs were rattling against the floor - I was going at her about something just to show the class what the series of questions would be about current life - and she said: "You mustn't ask me any questions. You mustn't ask me any questions. You mustn't. You mustn't. You mustn't."

"Where are you?"

"I am sitting before a big panel... I didn't use to sit there - I am sitting there right now. This - that's me. I - I sit in front of this panel. This is my job! This is my job. I am not supposed to tell you what my job is, but there's this panel." and so forth.

I said: "It's a communicator switchboard"

"No-ooo!" and she just starts going on .

I said: "Well, you wouldn't mind telling me the codes that go across the panel..." and she passed right straight on out. She'd never heard of bodies in pawn or other governments or invader forces or anything of the sort. So I snapped her around and carried on with the rest of the questioning, and was simply able to do so because I happened to know - this is a very funny thing to say - but I happen to know her commanding officer! And gave her - silly, isn't it - and gave her the messages which had gone across her panel an hour before, at which moment she quieted down.

And she says: "Well, I'll probably be taken all to pieces in the morning". And so I said: "No, you will not be." And she wasn't. But she was a communicator who was running a communications switchboard. She's a communicator in a system known as the space stations.

The space stations exist out here in the solar system. They use the asteroids. It's a very peculiar system. This solar system has a broken up planet (smojers) - the asteroid belt. It gives a low-gravity platform for take off and so on, and that broken planet is of considerable interest as a space station - that is to say, as a galactic jump (spring board).

Now, there aren't any planets up at this end of the galaxy which form a good galactic entering spot for incoming transport and other ships. But this beautiful, broken up planet here with a light - gravity sun and moon, makes a very ideal spot. And as a result, this area of the solar system got into prominence. It got into a little bit of prominence, and it's slightly a house of contention.

The 4th Invader Force was there. The 5th Invader Force came in to use this area - and the name of this solar system is Space Station 33.

They started to use this area without suspecting that the 4th Invader Force had been there for God knows how many skillion years, had been sitting down - and they have their installations up on Mars, and they have a tremendous, screened operation. It has gone into 100% holding force. And it does everything it does with tremendous coversion. It's sitting behind a defense screen of enormous size, and nobody - it's practically impossible to penetrate that except as a Thetan. And if you penetrate it as a Thetan, you go through the Martian Screen, and they got you!

Once "they" got you, then you're a new implanted recruit, put in a body which is gonna be used as a "body in pawn" for your new mission on Earth or whatever planet "they" want to send you to.

The 5th Invader Force all of a sudden started to lose crews and they didn't know where they were going. And they got a little more upset about it and a little more upset and a little more upset about it. And a battalion was sent down here to Earth 8200 years ago - The 3rd Battalion. They came down in the Himalayas - the upper head lands, up about, oh, I'd say 72 miles NW of Khyber Pass - and put a base there, and still not believing that there was anything like an Invader Force operating in this system, failed to take any vaguest precautions with regard to their installations. They put up no defenses; after all, what was here? Nothing but Homo sapiens. That was just nothing, no danger, no menace, and so on.

And they were in this installation just for a very short time when all of a sudden, with a terrific crash, the 4th Invader Force - which was a little more active then than it has become since - knocked out this whole battalion (3,000 beings) and picked up all of its staff, all of its staff officers and so forth, and took them through to Mars and then knocked them back into this human race here. They are still here. There are saucer crews here; there are all sorts of things on Earth here from the 5th Invader Force. Very interesting.

And the 5th Invader Force, out of its own protection, took over Venus - oh, relatively in modern times - took over Venus and tried to stabilize the Venusian. If you called a 5th Invader, though, a Venusian, he would probably shoot out of hand, because it would be a horrible insult. They merely monitor the government of Venus, and they leave Mars strictly alone.

Now, this is really, roughly, a rundown of the "political" situation in the solar system. Now, that's very interesting, because it gives you, as preclears, bodies in pawns of the 4th Invader Force. It gives you tremendous amount of personnel that have been poured down here for various nefarious purposes, all of them under some kind of a covert direction (other determinism). Typical game: Every goal they've gotten, they have a reason why they can't reach the goal, see? I mean typical game sort of an implant these people are operating on. They're relatively inefficient but, boy, can they hold onto things! Do they accumulate MEST and that sort of thing! You've got your big holding operations. And you've got running through this a 5th Invader Force operation which is strictly, really, disinterested in Earth ("They are not interested in you") at all, as such, because Earth is heavy - gravity planet, and who the hell wants a heavy-gravity planet?

Earth has been consistently used as a prison; and it's a prison, and it is heavily screened. There are installations in Mongolia, there are installations in the Pyrenees here on Earth, and there are installations down in the Mountains of the Moon (Central Africa between Uganda and Zaire) which pick up, very often, people on death. And the thetan just doesn't know what is going on.

He's in a state of deep hypnosis, really and the moment he finds himself in association with a dead body, the thing keys [in] and he reports to where he's supposed to go. And he's changed and moved around here and there and comes back down.

Really, from death back to assumption of a new body and so on, is ordinarily a time period of 15 minutes and he as 3 engrams in those 15 minutes: 1) Death 2) The [memory] wipeout and implants between lives 3) the assumption - knocking out the GE and taking over a body at birth.

PS: for a glossary of terms see: http://www.xenu-directory.net/glossary/glossary_a.htm

There aren't that many red pills available to get out of that matrix...

LRH summarizes the situation of the remaining aware individuals on this planet as:

"We are the not quite gone standing in the graveyard of the long gone."

[jiminii]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)

Posted by Ilie Pandia (here)
I have a question about the dianetics auditing. Can one still benefit from a session that is not in his mother tongue? I suspect things may get rather emotional as you get close to an engram so having to deal with a foreign language as well could be a problem.

The auditor could always ask to clarify what it means or to translate, as well as ask if there could be any play on words with that foreign language, keeping in mind that the reactive mind takes things very litteraly. Also, the auditor could ask if there were any consequences in one's subsequent life from the specific wording recovered in an incident. When the "PC"/auditee realises something like:

"Oh, yeah... hahahaha... that's why I've been a knucklehead all my life... isn't that stupid... hahahehehe..." job done!

For example, if the mother needed a blood transfusion during her pregnancy or while giving birth and her blood type is B-, then the end result is both mother and child stuck with a post hypnotic command of "be negative" from someone ordering a B- blood type for the transfusion.

That command works for English speaking people but not necessarily for other languages.

ok I found the phoenix lectures all on mp3 files
got the pilot from free zone .. with excaliber all of it
i got life continuum all on mp3 files
I got source of life energy
science of survival
technique 88
thought emotion
thought emotion effort
all on mp3 files

I got more somewhere else
whay do I do with them

jim

[gralsfighter]

Posted by we-R-one (here)
I I don't ever remember reading anything describing living on Earth as a prison planet of trapped souls

?
Samsara
The concept of a cycle of repeated reincarnation.
you cant go elsewhere.
Thats the concept of a prison

or read ET 101

Posted by we-R-one (here)
purpose on beeing on Earth

having fun.

But no, I dont mean Sex, Drugs and Rockn Roll.
Its like Bill said: playing a game.
there are many planets who need a Genesis project.
gralsfighter

[we-R-one]

Gralsfighter I think you're taking what I'm saying out of context. I'll explain later, don't have time right now. Thanks for highlighting my typos, lol, yeesh, guess I better do a better job of proofreading.

[AwakeInADream]

Posted by jiminii (here)

ok I found the phoenix lectures all on mp3 files
got the pilot from free zone .. with excaliber all of it
i got life continuum all on mp3 files
I got source of life energy
science of survival
technique 88
thought emotion
thought emotion effort
all on mp3 files

I got more somewhere else
whay do I do with them

jim

Hi Jim!

If you want to share your mp3 files you could start a free account on Soundcloud and then link the files in your posts.

http://soundcloud.com/

[gralsfighter]

Posted by we-R-one (here)
Gralsfighter I think you're taking what I'm saying out of context.

Maybe that fits your question?

http://paramejgian.wordpress.com/200...0/what-matrix/

gralsfighter

[webyourstuff]

Posted by TalkingFish (here)
Bill, thanks for sharing your viewpoint on this! A few quick (?) questions:

I remember a past post, when you mentioned finding pre-1970 Dianetics books to audit, but they aren't easy to come by. Would you mind sharing your PDF on Book One? Or do you have recommendations on legit auditing centers?

....

Thanks!

Talking Fish ( and Bill) - I want to point out the Church of Scientology is very protective of copy rights. I don't advise you to publicly share pdfs. Yes, I would bet they have spies on this forum. They have them everywhere else!