Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

[Hervé]

Posted by webyourstuff (here)
[...]

Talking Fish ( and Bill) - I want to point out the Church of Scientology is very protective of copy rights. I don't advise you to publicly share pdfs. Yes, I would bet they have spies on this forum. They have them everywhere else!

Most of the early materials have lapsed and fallen into the public domain.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)

Posted by webyourstuff (here)
[...]

Talking Fish ( and Bill) - I want to point out the Church of Scientology is very protective of copy rights. I don't advise you to publicly share pdfs. Yes, I would bet they have spies on this forum. They have them everywhere else!

Most of the early materials have lapsed and fallen into the public domain.

Everything's available here (3.6 Gb zip file, expanding to over 6 Gb):

http://torrents.thepiratebay.org/470...72.TPB.torrent

[webyourstuff]

Posted by Nanoo Nanoo (here)
Bill a question if i may. ( un loaded )

My auditing experience is limited compared to yours.


When an auditor asks you to think of things does this usuallly as a by product bring up memories and visions of past events ?

If so , where do these visual memories manifest ? ie what part of the brian ,in your opinion , facilitates the recognition of said events ?

AND , Is the e meter trying to read the electromagnetic pulses attributed to extra mind mental energy created by exersizing it ?

Thank you

Naniu

In Dianetics, you are asked to find an area of discomfort, then the questions, are directed there. In higher level auditing, a meter is used. The auditor will ask a number of questions that could elicit a response, then take up the question that gives a reaction on the meter. Further questions are then related to this area found.

Auditing does NOT take place in the brain. Rather, in the spiritual space surrounding the brain. You are not a brain. You are a spiritual being who HAS a brain.

[webyourstuff]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by CdnSirian (here)
Jiminii said he is the viewpoint of Maitreya - how does one take that?

I have no idea what to do with that concept. I'm reading what Jim writes (which is quite a lot) and trying to understand. He's clearly trying to tell us something which he considers very important. I have not asked Jim this, but I have the strong idea that he was 'told' or 'knew' that he had to come here. That gets my interest. (Inelia was similar, some of you may recall.)

That -- the relaying of an important message for consideration -- is not the first time this has happened on this forum. We had read, and been most interested by, Bright Garlick, Simon Parkes, Clif High, and many, many others. I personally don't know whether to take it literally or exactly, or not. But I think it belongs here. The intelligent interest from [most of] the members justifies that.

Also, thrown in with saying he is the viewpoint of LRH - though not channelling, as has been decided...so of whom is this whatever numbered coming?

I don't think this is channeling (in the normally accepted sense of the word, like Messages from Matthew or anything from Mike Quinsey). I think this is something else. For instance, we're not getting from Jim a page of text which is a message we're urged to read and take seriously as some definitive pronouncement about which we have no say. At least, that's not how I am regarding it.

BECAUSE Jim is sharing so much of himself, openly, vulnerably and in trust, including a lot of his life story and many things that he freely admits he does not understand, I find myself pretty patient with all this, and also find it very interesting. I admire Jim's courage and integrity, actually.

A personal statement, for clarity: I do not endorse his claims. Neither am I dismissing them. In fact, I still have not read everything Jim has written.

One of the criteria we use when considering membership applications is: "Would we want to sit down and have a cup of coffee with this interesting person?"

In Jim's case, we all felt we would, indeed. That is still the case.

Hubbard stated in "Hymn of Asia" that he was Maitreya. Whether he meant it, or whether this was "poetic license", I have no idea. I do not know of him saying or making a claim anywhere else.

[Hervé]

Posted by webyourstuff (here)
[...]

Hubbard stated in "Hymn of Asia" that he was Maitreya. Whether he meant it, or whether this was "poetic license", I have no idea. I do not know of him saying or making a claim anywhere else.

Ron never made that claim, he just asked the question: "Am I Maitreya?" leaving it to the attendance (or readers) to answer the question for themselves.

[webyourstuff]

Posted by AriG (here)
I have, perhaps, a delicate question and my intent is to understand, not necessarily to judge. L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of this church.... his works were bastardized and co-opted by what is now this Church of Scientology? Yes? Perhaps this is an overly-simplified question... Who/what are these beings that have stolen his work and morphed it into something that appears quite evil? Why haven't the supporters of L. Ron's work (Ron's Org?) launched a counter-rebellion? Why has this church been permitted to imprison people, brainwash them and intimidate them so? Why do the Ron's org people not fight back? What' the worst thing that can happen?

My, what questions! All valid, and us ex-Scientologists ask that of ourselves often.

What I would say is the effectiveness of the control model used by Scientology. There are many pieces to that puzzle. I can give you a few: First off, it works! It really really does! They give you a taste of it, then, when you're committed, they make demands on your integrity before they will give you more. Well, they SAY they are asking you to up your integrity, but as you will see, it really destroys your free will. For instance, if you voice an opinion the least bit threatening/ contrary to Scientology, you may have to spend time with an Ethics Officer to find out what ethical weaknesses you have that would cause you to say such a thing. You soon find yourself being very careful of your thoughts so they don't get you in trouble. You also start avoiding people who cause you to think such thoughts. The auditing is SO successful, you find yourself cutting back your thought processes just so you have hope of more processing.

Another is, if you have a disagreement, you are not allowed to voice it to anyone else BUT an Ethics Officer. Since nobody talks aloud about their disagreements, you don't know other people have disagreements. You are also required to do confessionals. Supposedly, these confessionals are private and confidential. They aren't. All confessions are written down. Nowadays, I hear they are videotaped! If you leave and step out of line, the stuff in these confessionals becomes blackmail.

Well, I can go on all night answering your questions. But I'm tired, and I want to go to bed. Consider this a start.

On youtube, seek out ToryMagoo44. She explains this better than I can.

Best
Laura

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Posted by webyourstuff (here)

Posted by Nanoo Nanoo (here)
Bill a question if i may. ( un loaded )

My auditing experience is limited compared to yours.


When an auditor asks you to think of things does this usuallly as a by product bring up memories and visions of past events ?

If so , where do these visual memories manifest ? ie what part of the brian ,in your opinion , facilitates the recognition of said events ?

AND , Is the e meter trying to read the electromagnetic pulses attributed to extra mind mental energy created by exersizing it ?

Thank you

Naniu

In Dianetics, you are asked to find an area of discomfort, then the questions, are directed there. In higher level auditing, a meter is used. The auditor will ask a number of questions that could elicit a response, then take up the question that gives a reaction on the meter. Further questions are then related to this area found.

Auditing does NOT take place in the brain. Rather, in the spiritual space surrounding the brain. You are not a brain. You are a spiritual being who HAS a brain.

I completely agree with you. It is widely accepted that the Pineal Gland is the transcendental gateway.. the link from spirit to mind ... and i respect that auditing proper, is a spiritual exersise.

my original apraisil was simply the e meter read the third eye / pineal gland .. when i was challenged on this it prompted me to qualify my statement to show the physical machinations that happens during an auditing session.


Naniu

[wegge]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)

Posted by webyourstuff (here)
[...]

Hubbard stated in "Hymn of Asia" that he was Maitreya. Whether he meant it, or whether this was "poetic license", I have no idea. I do not know of him saying or making a claim anywhere else.

Ron never made that claim, he just asked the question: "Am I Maitreya?" leaving it to the attendance (or readers) to answer the question for themselves.

In Peter Moons "Montauk and the Book of the Dead" he writes about his life in Scientology. He was at the Apollo and was into contact with Hubbard. He says Hubbard made some statements which implicated that he really thought he is Maitreya.

[webyourstuff]

Posted by WEAREONE (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by AriG (here)
Why do the Ron's org people not fight back?

But they do. There's a LOT of good information out there for those who want to spend a little time digging. And much of the 'fight back' occurs in spiritual realms. The 'Church' is not nearly as powerful or influential as it was, or wants to be.

Im not having much luck looking for the groups fighting back. I will re read the threads and look again, but as I have little knowledge of Scientology nor the groups involved perhaps you can give a list of people organizations to look further into. Google search of Rons Org has led me to some websites that seem a bit off
and others that seem safe and worthy of exploring. I would appreciate any suggestions for what to avoid and what to look into more. Heres two examples of websites one of which I think I will avoid the other look further.

http://www.ronsorg.com/-- This one seems like a good starting point to look further

Church of Scientology's favorite weapons are:

• Posting lies on the internet about a person> The intention is to make the person look like an unreliable source so people won't believe them.
• Following people, harassing them as needed.
• Fake or spurious legal suits that cause a person to get entangled in legal fees and cause them to go broke.
• Posting confidential confessional information about the person. Their "public relations" book state that a little bit of truth and some heavy lies is effective because the observer finds out part of it is true, then believes the rest.
• Posting to all church members a statement of "crimes" committed by the person, and forbidding all church members to have any contact with that person. This often breaks up families, friendships, has forced bosses to fire employees, landlords to evict tenants, etc.
• People and groups are often sued for possession/ use of copyright materials. This has forced some groups to close down.
• They have been known to drug, hypnotyse members, and force them to do things under that condition, and also to plant suicidal thoughts in the person's head.
• I have heard that murder and attempted murder is in their arsenal repertoire. I have no first hand knowledge of this. I do have first hand knowledge of the above.

This is a partial list.

[jiminii]

I will try to clear up some confusion here
a thetan by definition is the spirit itself ... but the spirit itself is a static ... it has no motion .. no wavelength no mass no energy no space and no time ... it is like a complete black void (or can be white .. I've seen both) ok the thetan is outside this universe . and every thetan (spirit) that is operating inside this universe is outside this universe (MEST matter energy space and time universe) .. all of them are outside creating this universe (MEST) .. so it is like they have to put a pin hole into this physical universe to see what is inside ... this is a viewpoint ... now this is what most people think of as the spirit that looks like a golden ball next to the body it is managing .. the viewpoint is not the thetan (spirit) it is a creation by the spirit to have a place to view from ... ok if you are outside the body .. you are viewing from the viewpoint itself .. if you are inside the body your viewpoint has been shifted to use the eyes and ears of the body and all it's perceptions ... it takes awhile to do this .. I heard from 49 days to 51 days something like that .. where there is a image of a body they wrap this viewpoint around to thoroughly shift it's viewpoint to needing a body to operate in and when it takes on a body it's viewpoint is shifted from the viewpoint to the body eyes and perceptions ...

just look at the viewpoint like you look at the idea of a spirit .. next to the body ... but it is not the spirit .. the spirit is outside this universe .. the viewpoint is a creation by the spirit to be able to look inside this universe ... and the spirit outside this universe can make more than one viewpoint ... this means it can run more than one timeline

any questions?

jim

[webyourstuff]

Posted by donk (here)
It is true that outsiders CLAIM that as the highest most secret of teachings...I am sharing a perspective in hopes you can clear it up (especially whilst people are discussing the details in the LRH thread, as if it is something to be discussed as a piece of true history).

I don't disbelieve anything, just looking for clarity, sharing a view from the outside in hopes of being enlightened. I would appreciate anyone familiar's take on that particular teaching.

Is it ramblings taken out of context?

Is it Hubbard's "truth" once he was completely "clear"?

Is there any divine or ET inspiration?

Is there "levels", stepped teachings, to Hubbard's work? Or is that complete myth/bastardization?

I have shared with you the info I was able to find--which is kind of the mainstream view, kindly share your interpretation/data? Thanks


ADDED:

I guess what gets me is this:

Thousands of people have reported that it works for auditing purposes, and all I can tell you is that people who run the processes get a great deal of expanded awareness and ability from it. And that's all that counts."

If I interpret your original answer correctly, you are saying that not only is it not an important teaching, it is not even a story (which is how I read it). Instead it describes some "processes" that can be "run" to expand awareness and abilities? I am really lost now...what processes would that be?

I don't know about the "highest most secret" bit. There is a belief that telling people "want to know a secret?" sells. There is a bit of thought that if it got public, public would think Scientology is crazy. So you have to read it while in a course room with an instructor looking on, who must pick up any concerns you may have.

There is NO channeling. That would be taking information from an unknown source. A definite no-no.

The problem with the OT3 materials getting public is it is out of context, therefore looks weirder than what I saw in the OT3 course room, and is missing a LOT of data, that data being what to do with the information.

I did the OT3 stuff, and I got phenomenal gains from it.

BTW, it was immediately after I did OT3 that things started to look weird inside the church, I stuck around and tried to help fix it for awhile. But the problem came from the top. It was a lost cause.

[webyourstuff]

Posted by Azt (here)
My 5 cents ... I have noticed that the Scientology theme has basically took over the topics here on project avalon ... Perhaps, it is the old divide-conquest tactics being played so we put our efforts on discussing it, I am not saying it is not worth to discuss it but as I learned so far reading all the posts, isn`t there a third party on this subject that want us all loose our focus on other current issues ? Anyway, not judging but just questioning.
Peace to all.

This is a hot topic for me. I am glad to see it here. Divide and conquer usually consists of a lot of heckling, which I've seen none of. I presume others, like me, really want to discuss the topic.

[jiminii]

Posted by jiminii (here)
I will try to clear up some confusion here
a thetan by definition is the spirit itself ... but the spirit itself is a static ... it has no motion .. no wavelength no mass no energy no space and no time ... it is like a complete black void (or can be white .. I've seen both) ok the thetan is outside this universe . and every thetan (spirit) that is operating inside this universe is outside this universe (MEST matter energy space and time universe) .. all of them are outside creating this universe (MEST) .. so it is like they have to put a pin hole into this physical universe to see what is inside ... this is a viewpoint ... now this is what most people think of as the spirit that looks like a golden ball next to the body it is managing .. the viewpoint is not the thetan (spirit) it is a creation by the spirit to have a place to view from ... ok if you are outside the body .. you are viewing from the viewpoint itself .. if you are inside the body your viewpoint has been shifted to use the eyes and ears of the body and all it's perceptions ... it takes awhile to do this .. I heard from 49 days to 51 days something like that .. where there is a image of a body they wrap this viewpoint around to thoroughly shift it's viewpoint to needing a body to operate in and when it takes on a body it's viewpoint is shifted from the viewpoint to the body eyes and perceptions ...

just look at the viewpoint like you look at the idea of a spirit .. next to the body ... but it is not the spirit .. the spirit is outside this universe .. the viewpoint is a creation by the spirit to be able to look inside this universe ... and the spirit outside this universe can make more than one viewpoint ... this means it can run more than one timeline

any questions?

jim

ok here is more ....

we take one broken piece off the main static called theta

the broken piece is also source and is also a static but it is an individual piece ... you can create more spirits by breaking more pieces off this bigger piece ...

so one spirit is capable of creating more spirits under him/her/it ...

but these are still static ... if anyone of them want to view inside the physical universe they must create a Viewpoint ... that goes inside the physical universe

OK I am a viewpoint of the spirit of Metteyya ...
I am not a viewpoint of LRH
LRH is a viewpoint of the spirit of Metteyya
Siddhartha Gautama Buddha is a viewpoint of Metteyya
I also had the inclination to say David Miscavige was one of the viewpoints of Metteyya when i was being audited by Trey but I withheld it because it didn't seem right to open that up yet ,..

but I couldn't see why at the time ... but it came out when i was talking to someone who is being trained at Ron's Org .. that has a high OT level

ok in the middle of talking about where I came from suddenly some kind of awareness opened up and this came out.

David Miscavige was setup by LRH because he knew the enemy had put many sleeper children in the Church of Scientology ... and when they grow up they will awaken and take over the church of scientology from the inside ...

so David Miscavige was instructed by LRH to do specific instructions to let LRH detach totally from the physical body so he could leave and there would be nothing like a mind or anything else attacked to LRH that would trigger him into an implant station so he could escape the force fields of the planet and go back to the central command and give them his findings ... he violated his original mission orders when he introduced scientology to this planet ... but they now know it was a necessary action too ,..

then David Miscavige was to keep all the upper OT levels out of harms reach ... and keep the technology from getting into the hands of the enemies ... so a lot of alteration was made to only handle past case but not open up anything that would allow people to open up any powerful OT levels ,,

and he would setup the church and monies to keep others from getting any of the rights to steal the organization and create the Ideal orgs for the future for some planned event that will happen ... and to create the huge publishing facilities that will allow them to correct the data without other publishing houses altering the wording to their own think ...

so he would be able to open up all the new stuff when it is ready

David Miscavige is also a Master Games Player .. the Highest known OT level on the planet ... so he was not allowed to get auditing just like they wouldn't allow me to get auditing because we have already done it from the future before we came here ...

this allowed Captain Bill Robertson to go off and open up the OT levels in Europe in case it failed in USA ,.. it would take the attention off Bill so that he could do it without being attacked and stopped ... so Bill opened up all the upper OT levels to Master Games Player course ...


so this is me ... Let the truth do what it does

jim

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Azt (here)
My 5 cents ... I have noticed that the Scientology theme has basically took over the topics here on project avalon ...

I just did a count. Of the 82 threads listed on the five pages of the New Posts list, two (2) are about LRH or scientology. There are more threads about the Bilderberg conference, the imminent financial collapse, and the intel agencies monitoring/spying on US citizens.

This is always the way Avalon works. It's like a conversation round a very large dinner table: the topics of interest and discussion change all the time. The topics are chosen (and created, and kept 'current') by the members -- not myself or the moderators.

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Here's a Dianetics auditor in London, England. I do not know her, but she comes recommended from a good friend.

Dear Bill,

A friend of yours [name given] called me and said there were inquiries from people in London who are interested in Dianetics auditing and gave me your contact details and Clive Nicol's, too.

I trained as a Dianetics Auditor in California at Stevens Creek and Mountain View Orgs in 1997, and have been using Dianetics to help people since then, as an independent field auditor, outside the Church.

I am based in South West London and would love to do more Dianetics auditing and would also like to do some Co-Auditing if you have anyone in London who is trained and experienced.

Please contact me so that we can have a chat asap. I have questions for you and I'm sure you have some for me. You can call me on my landline, preferably, or I am happy to call you back on a landline if you want to text me your number and the best time to call you.

Yours faithfully,

Hillary Kennedy
[phone numbers given]
fabstarkennedy@yahoo.com

[gralsfighter]

Posted by AriG (here)
I have, perhaps, a delicate question and my intent is to understand, not necessarily to judge. L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of this church.... his works were bastardized and co-opted by what is now this Church of Scientology? Yes? Perhaps this is an overly-simplified question... Who/what are these beings that have stolen his work and morphed it into something that appears quite evil? Why haven't the supporters of L. Ron's work (Ron's Org?) launched a counter-rebellion? Why has this church been permitted to imprison people, brainwash them and intimidate them so? Why do the Ron's org people not fight back? What' the worst thing that can happen?

Many Scientologist and others fail to see that this not only a "Scientology Problem". You can see these cockroaches in christianity (Inqusition and falsifing the bible), by Osho or Falun Gong, freemasons and many others.
The more a Technology free people in a unbrainwashed state the more they become pressure.
David Icke is one example from many.
He gets so much pressure that that what he is telling must be the truth.
gralsfighter

[Hervé]

Posted by jiminii (here)
[...]

... then David Miscavige was to keep all the upper OT levels out of harms reach ... and keep the technology from getting into the hands of the enemies ... [...]

jim

Jim,

OSA (Co$'s Office of Special Affairs) couldn't possibly do a better job of getting Miscavige a whiter shade of white... why would LRH bother to name Pat and Annie Broeker as "Loyal Officers" and not Miscavige?

Here is a document published by William "Bill" Cooper as an addendum in one of his book, demonstrating that "they" know about the tech and past implants:

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
With respect to captures and enslavements... "they" know what they are doing and "they" are doing it on purpose.

"They" also know how to activate/trigger/restimulate past captures/enslavements/trainings/programmings to their benefits:



A COVENANT WITH DEATH
http://ufo.whipnet.org/xdocs/convenant/index7.html

Part 7 - <-- | -->

The following is from a letter or a document which was released by William Cooper without comment as to it's origin or author, although the writer of the letter or document seems to have been someone "in the know", and possibly someone involved in scientific research for the government:

Microwaves... again!

Stan Deyo mentions in one of his video how, along with others, he was trained to do his research on anti-gravity by absorbing everything that was knonw of physics at that time by flipping some 200 pages/seconds into his mind... for him/them to join the dots in doing the research... god knows what else they put into the minds of these researchers!

Did you read that document and catch that little phrase:

"It is here where billion-year-old psychological implants may be restimulated." ? *

On the other hand, the above document totally relates to Robert Duncan's research and experiments... or why subsidize digital TV for everyone in the US.


* Incidentally, that short phrase was "disappeared" from the linked text (or Branton's annotated text of same) compared to the original document... or how to alter truth.

[johnf]

Posted by gralsfighter (here)

Posted by AriG (here)
I have, perhaps, a delicate question and my intent is to understand, not necessarily to judge. L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of this church.... his works were bastardized and co-opted by what is now this Church of Scientology? Yes? Perhaps this is an overly-simplified question... Who/what are these beings that have stolen his work and morphed it into something that appears quite evil? Why haven't the supporters of L. Ron's work (Ron's Org?) launched a counter-rebellion? Why has this church been permitted to imprison people, brainwash them and intimidate them so? Why do the Ron's org people not fight back? What' the worst thing that can happen?

Many Scientologist and others fail to see that this not only a "Scientology Problem". You can see these cockroaches in christianity (Inqusition and falsifing the bible), by Osho or Falun Gong, freemasons and many others.
The more a Technology free people in a unbrainwashed state the more they become pressure.
David Icke is one example from many.
He gets so much pressure that that what he is telling must be the truth.
gralsfighter

This is a good point Grals. I am not sure we have ever gotten anything really good from counter rebellions, but more war, more rulers etc.
All of the movements listed in Grals post involved just plain folks trying to do something about there spiritual freedom.
It is a very powerfull force freedom, a double edged sword.

Dianetics and Scientology talked the subject of spirit from a very technological angle.
Presently the talk about archontic invasions, etc is using what may be a very accurate term for what keeps holding spirit back AI.

When you talk about "the" AI, it reacts! It fights back and tries to get people to deny it's existence. It is a parasite, and because of that will enure there are plenty of other hosts about before it kills you.

It was exposed in a very big way on this forum in the Horus Ra thread.
I am deliberately commiting a partial error here of oversimplifing a very long and complex disscusion.
But the work of Malanga exposes very closely what is probably the end game of the AI.

That is to submerge the soul,by making it take on more and more of this programming, to be become more and more like "them",until these entities can take over the bodies humans, the genetic engineering (further programming of the GE if you will), takes care of the biological side of the job.
Of course how far they will get, and have gotten in other places is an excellent question.

Another idea in that thread , that I find fascinating is the allegory of the original creator, and it's goal to experience death. So it created another being, and that being decided to cheat death, so it created the aliens to do the dying for it, and (like parent like child) they decided to create a whole physical universe which would evolve us, to do the dying for them. Until they could take us over and live forever I geuss.

Rather grusome scenario, and there is a danger of taking this all too literally.

Personally I like the way Allan Watts put it.Of course the music and images from the inception movie certainly help bring it home.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=-xCFoJ0aywc

Allan Watts dealt with a softer form of this technology of spiritual freedom, as do many others.

The enlightenment and the ego thread, is a very thorough exploration of some of these softer technologies.

The Ai does not like these either, and correct me if I am wrong, but I never saw anyone publicly leave the forum because of those type of discussions.However there have been some leave over these LRH discussions.

Alan's speech may not cause beings to shoot out of the universe, and end up floating out there looking down at the little speck of dust like the Ron's org, Hubbard stuff does, (jeez I hope I am wrong there, and probably am), but it can cetainly bring about gentle smiles of knowing, and even peals of laughter,and people can walk away with this higher awareness.

The same is probably true of the teachings that were turned into christianity, crusades etc, Islam, jihads etc.

For the sake of a sick joke I am tempted to mention people flying planes into buildings full of people too, however there is some confusion about the real involvement of Islam, (not to mention the role of the planes) in that particular instance!
However, the agenda carried by this AI probably had a lot to do with it.

So concerning the various groups that followed in the wake of the COS, I would have to say that the best course of action is going to be one of not only gentle insistence of the truth, that we are not our bodies, we are not our thoughts, and we are not the specialized definitions that have been used to describe what can look at those things.

Here on this forum we can gather from whatever studies we have done and compare notes, and as more people notice the truth
and dissolve the ai that they have taken into themselves, we will have tools to help them and ourselves move peacefully ahead and live in a much improved society.
I feel obligated to note also this certainly not the only place where this sort of thing is happening.

Dang that was verbose, but it has been bubbling up in me for a bit. And i neglected to get back to a rather freeing idea that is out there regarding the original goal of infinte beings experiencing death, and that is the conscious practice of letting the false self die on an ongoing basis. Die daily , then notice you are still walking around and all is well.

Peace and Free being

jf

[novus]

Bill,

Many thanks for this thread. This is the most intelligent, most literate, Scientology and related studies discussion, I have encountered on the internet. I like your open minded approach and the way you don't try to hog tie, or force the reader into a belief. You also leave room for the reader to cognate and contribute to the discussion.

I haven't done anything in Scientology since about 1985. My experiences with Scientology were positive. I completed the level of OT-3. It was a nice place to perch, and that's were I have been every since.

I do want to post some comments and questions on this thread, and will do so, once I assimilate the links and all. Some of the personalities you've mentioned on this thread and on the provided links, such as, Jim Humble, Peter Green, and others, I have known in the past.

I look forward to commenting soon.

[CdnSirian]

This is pretty overwhelming. The idea of being conscious almost becomes repulsive.

Buddha appears. The concept of Maitreya follows. Traditionally understood to be the re-incarnation of the individual who was the Buddha. Don't all the Buddhists want "him" to come back?

Like the Second Coming of Christ? Which many say is a consciousness not an individual? Or a Rapture meaning the death of everyone 'cept the unbelievers get raised up to Heaven?

And incarnating onto planet Earth is a spirit creating a viewpoint that didn't exist until the spirit needed one to get inserted here?

And all viewpoints are a viewpoint of Maitreya? "Siddhartha Gautama Buddha is a viewpoint of Metteyya" -Jiminii. Sorry but in all of Earth's documentation the Buddha came first. Although I do understand the holographic nature of this universe and the plasticity of linear time.

After reading this last page three times - I must retire to chop wood and carry water. Will catch up soon.