Seriously: Are We Winning Or Losing? Why?...

[CdnSirian]

Dennis you are watching it hit the fan, right now. No denial here.

Our job is to remain calm. It might help.

[Fractalius]

In this day, which side causes the most division?
We are unpredictable and understand division.
It is just as much us that is a threat to them, because we carry the ability to hate and blame.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by CdnSirian (here)
Dennis you are watching it hit the fan, right now. No denial here.

Our job is to remain calm. It might help.

When s really htf, then old can be discarded for new (if as you said - we remain caolm and keep our bearings). I actually have more faith that this would be a better way than "fixing" the current situatipon. a "fix" always references "an error" and is built around "the error" -- what we don't need are new systems built around old errors ... give me a crow bar and sledge hammer ... Either way, something will give, at that time action will be required, and all the philosophizing in the world will have limited use.

If we are losing the "war" .. we haven't even yet begun to know in earnest yet that there is a war ... wonder what the landscape will be like when we fully do?

"The interesting thing about humans is that when things are the worst, is when they are at their best" ... -- stolen quote from something ...

My 2 cents

[Dennis Leahy]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
In a bigger picture, as long as someone is losing, everyone is.

This is the spirit in which this question is being asked.

It's not the individual response of what an individual is doing (or not) nor what "we" should all be doing (or not) that I was looking for. We actually have quite a few threads on that.

If a toddler walked into a party with a machine gun full of live ammo, a "win" would not be killing the toddler and saving everyone else; a win would be disarming the toddler and no one gets hurt. Hopefully then the toddler can be watched much more closely, and (hopefully) instructed as to why that was... um, inappropriate.

There are people in major control positions on planet Earth that are acting like toddlers with machine guns. A "win" in this instance is to disarm the people acting like toddlers. One individual person's enlightenment or growth is not the goal (even though, to that one person, they may have transcended the entire situation.)

I believe that the "Earth is the toughest learning experience to incarnate upon, and so stop trying to "fix" it, it's not broken, it was meant to be this way" is an incorrect answer (and, an easy out.) Finding your own inner peace and ignoring all other life forms is kinda like your own permanent acid trip - and the rest of us are stone cold sober (and could use a hand.) The spiritual beings that set up such scenarios would have no trouble in reverting this place to a slow motion train wreck if they need to. The much bigger challenge is the one that ends with the whole group holding hands, running forward, and reaching the basket of fruit together. (I hope that reference is not too obtuse.)

I challenge you to drop that "don't fix this hell; it's not broken" notion, unite with humanity, and help make Earth into as close to a utopian/abundance paradise as possible. Life on Earth is still high-density, 3D - there will still be plenty of learning opportunities. And, quite frankly, the cards are stacked so badly against the majority of humanity and all of the trillions of life forms that inhabit Earth, it isn't even a good "test" scenario - it's like Sisyphus and his boulder.

Given the current scenario, it appears that Mike/Chinaski could be right: we'd need miracle to get there. Which is why I was wondering what everyone's assessment of the situation is.

Dennis

[pyriel]

neither side is really winning or losing at the moment. It seems that both are at a stand still right now. NWO seems to be just holding what ground they got over the years and try new things while the "resistance" continue to expose the new things they try to do.

What remains extremely sad is all the info is out there but most remain willfully ignorant of it all and therefore dont do anything and probably wont until they have guns in they're face or sitting in a concentration camp or when they're town gets locked down (martial law) but then they're between a rock and a hard spot.

People continue to fall as we have for so many centuries. That hasnt slowed much either. The fallen have a long ways to go before they rise again.

This war you talk about... hasnt even fully started yet tho some signs point to it starting to stir alittle.

[Fractalius]

I sopke to an aquaintence, his response was.

I don't worry about it ...

The Universe has worked perfectly well for millions of years, I'm sure it will continue to do so without me fretting at all!

[norman]

hi Dennis, I wouldn't like to say if "we" are winning against whoever it is that's behind all this stuff, in direct terms.

I will be very specific, though, in declaring that "we" are very much losing in our current relationship with technology. Although this may mean we are losing against 'them', it gives us, or at least me, a handle on something we can work at to fix a major part of our troubles.

I've said this before on this forum but I'll say it again here.

I see technology as an 'amplifier' of human effort. It's been around from the beginning. For hundreds of thousands of years we've lived quite effectively with our technologies. Technology is smart and distinctly human ( though there are signs that other species have begun to learn a few tricks from us ).

Something very profound happened to our relationship with our technology about half way through the 20th century.

I'll try to explain it by using the "amplifier" analogy.

In very simple terms, an electronic amplifier is a circuit that receives an input signal ( continuously variable voltage in relation to a fixed ground point ) and outputs a bigger replica of that signal.

Another electronic design that is very similar to an amp' is an oscillator. An ocillator is an amp with it's output fed straight back into it's input. ( that's very simplistic but covers the point here ). Oscillators create signals based on their own resonant frequencies rather than based on an input signal. This point of very important to my analogy here.

An example of an "accidental" oscillator circuit is the case of audio feedback that 'howls' when a stage speaker or singer holds a microphone too close to the speaker that the amplified sound is coming out of. Another example is when an electric guitarist holds the guitar right in the soundwaves from the speaker the guitar sound is coming out of. The soundwaves vibrate the strings which send magnetic signals through the electronics and back out of the speaker. Some guitar players achieve quite a mastery of this kind of feedback and use it musically. This is another important part of my point here.

Ok, back to the very general relationship between humans and their technology, and my observation that something important happened about half way through the last century.

I'm claiming that at that time, the leading edges of of our technology ( as an amplifier of human effort ) "went into oscillation".

Once an amp circuit is in oscillation, it doesn't even need a signal input for it to produce an output. The original input can be completely cut off and it will continue to produce it's resonant 'howl' from it's output for as long as it is receiving a power supply.

From a creative point of view, the output CAN still be manipulated but not from the original source of the input signal. Creative manipulation of the output signal can be applied by manipulating the feedback circuit while maintaining the constant power supply.

As I see it, most of what I'd call modern technology is now functioning as an oscillator, not as an amplifier. This is a very big step change from the way things have been for millennia.

Although there are a small number of humans who understand this and are actively applying themselves to manipulating the oscillatory nature of the technology, the vast majority of humans are quite literally " out of the loop" in terms of having any kind of controlling input. It's very freaky to realise this, but, most people, at an 'animal' level, are even acting as part of the oscillatory function.

This state of affairs is very serious. It throws up a few very serious questions about what on earth is really going on here right now.

I'm convinced that we must first stop the oscillation before we can profitably proceed further with technological advancements. We have to keep it in a basic state of amplification that is fully responsive to our human input.

I hope there is a better option than to break the glass and press the panic button that cuts off the power.

[Curt]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
In a bigger picture, as long as someone is losing, everyone is.

I believe that the "Earth is the toughest learning experience to incarnate upon, and so stop trying to "fix" it, it's not broken, it was meant to be this way" is an incorrect answer (and, an easy out.) Finding your own inner peace and ignoring all other life forms is kinda like your own permanent acid trip - and the rest of us are stone cold sober (and could use a hand.) The spiritual beings that set up such scenarios would have no trouble in reverting this place to a slow motion train wreck if they need to. The much bigger challenge is the one that ends with the whole group holding hands, running forward, and reaching the basket of fruit together. (I hope that reference is not too obtuse.)

I challenge you to drop that "don't fix this hell; it's not broken" notion, unite with humanity, and help make Earth into as close to a utopian/abundance paradise as possible.
Dennis

Amen, Dennis.... Elsewhere on PA there has been a discussion on solipsism being a spiritual con. And it sure does seem that way.

Keeping people focussed on their own personal 'spiritual' development while ignoring the bigger picture seems like it's straight out of the false love and light, false spirituality playbook.

It's part of a larger counterfeit operation, and is an effort, I think, to replace our real swords for cardboard ones.

[TargeT]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)

Given the current scenario, it appears that Mike/Chinaski could be right: we'd need miracle to get there. Which is why I was wondering what everyone's assessment of the situation is.

Dennis

I would say, based on history; we need a disaster. A disaster significant enough to reach the "100th monkey" (ie enough people, the majority for sure). Historically this is how change happens.
9/11 brought major changes and it was a minor event with major "propagandizing"; so clearly it just needs to reach a majority, not necessarily "affect" directly (physically).

Finding your own inner peace and ignoring all other life forms is kinda like your own permanent acid trip

I think this is a part of it, even though you added in that second part. I think a big part of why things are like they are is due to a systemic cognitive dissonance issue with humanity (the source matters, but I think it is highly variable & takes "work" from each individual to seek it out and manage it). If we are not at peace with our selfs, we will not be at peace with each other, don't discount this idea too much.

where does that leave us? well, I suppose it's a matter of perspective, the label "winning" or "losing". to me, things are what they are, attaching emotionally charged words like "winning" and/or "losing" doesn't change anything that is, it just shifts your perspective of "what is".

I think this is where the over used "be the change you want to see" quote comes in.

[Jake]

We are being challenged every day. We learn every day. We heighten our senses every day. We smile every day. There is a powerful joy, building up from the inside. We love our families and our friends, and we are sovereign. We are NOT alone. 7 Billion vs about 7 thousand!!!! We are waking up more and more every day. (no past life is as important as this one!) I ride the shoulders of a sleeping GIANT!!

We are winning, my friend. Check MATE!! (Well, check mate in TEN,,, we will have to wait until the pieces are actually moved,,) CheckMate,, nonetheless.

This is my Best 3d answer. Take care, Dennis. Talk to ya soon...

Jake.

[donk]

The OP made me think of the Truman Show--cuz first of all, I don’t like noose tightening analogy, it’s more like a slow working poison of limitation is injected anchoring us to the artificial reality whether we are aware it exists or not.

Now there is the possibility that an individual (Truman, TRUE-MAN) finds their way out, and it directly effects every other individual. I think what happens is the more enlightened, aware, the people more often than not making decisions from love rather than fear follow him out, and create a new reality. But not everybody is going follow him out and start a new game, a new show. Some of those players, the neighbors and other characters in the “reality” may not be able to handle it, and stay locked in their role, too afraid to change, to let go of the identity they created.

Some of the producers and crew would definitely go the free will path, ask forgiveness of Truman and change their ways. While others see an opportunity to seize control and recreate the original, or start a new one based on the same structure—hell, perhaps an ambitious actor or two makes a move, and create a more idealistically “loving” show, though controlled and based on fear nonetheless. This was where my despair came from, the idea drove me away from passion to understand politics and economics and religion—the fear that the desire control, ownership, and selfishness may in fact BE human nature, a part of who we are.

Reflecting on this, it does not feel right though. I feel that given enough relatively untainted information, any being I would call “human” is not at their core essence any of these things. These are bad habits nearly impossible to give up, and will remain in the human until every last bad apple is exposed, every individual finds themselves.

I was convinced there was no way it was possible to do it in this lifetime, and learned to cope, to live the **** out of life, appreciate every experience, trying to always live without out fear and in unconditional. This turned my outlook around a lot. While I still don’t hold my breath that complete lifting of the veil (aka apocalypse) will occur in this one, stranger things have happened, and nothing surprises me anymore.


(LOVE TO ALL, forgive any redundancy, I’ve only had time to read the OP—and decided to sneak my truth in here before getting back to the corporate slavery here on the cube farm)

[Hawkwind]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
The question was asked in a very 3D "WE" perspective. If you don't ascribe to thrat perspective, that's fine, but that's the topic of this inquiry.
Dennis

Dennis, it seems to me that you’ve already answered your question yourself in your orginal post as well as it can be answered from a 3D “WE” perspective. If the NWO is already here and the noose is tightening, then those of us who oppose that agenda are pretty clearly not winning. From that perspective, we are either losing or have already lost. That isn’t, however, the only perspective we can adopt.

If, as many here seem to believe, we are immortal souls inhabiting physical bodies in order to experience temporal/physical reality- then the events which occur during our lifetime can be viewed as a sort of curriculum. That is not to suggest we should “pick our nose on the sidelines” to paraphrase Chinaski. I’ve been working to wake people up and help make the world a better place for over thirty years now, and I’ll continue to do so to the best of my ability so long as there is breath in my body. That’s my curriculum.

I’m no longer attached, however, to the outcome of my actions. My job is to live as impeccably as I can. If the world becomes a better place as a result, I’ll die happier. If it doesn’t, I’ll die knowing that I tried. In either case, sooner or later I will die and sooner or later the Earth will too, because that’s the nature of temporal reality.

Going back to your original post-

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
why destroy religion and individual nations if you CONTROL religions and individual nations? Wouldn't it be easier to simply slip slightly different hands into the puppets, rather than destroy the entire puppet show (and risk waking up the audience?)

It’s my understanding that the Illuminati began with the intention to do away with war, permanently. (Or at least that was the hype used to recruit people into the organization.) In order to accomplish this, it was deemed necessary to abolish the underlying social structures which tend to lead to war, ie- conflicting religions, governments, economies, etc. This would be done by infiltrating the existing structures and gradually both controlling and corrupting them. Ultimately, a final conflict would be fomented, all existing institutions destroyed and replaced by globally unified versions under Illuminati control.

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
My compatriots seem as divided as ever, with no plan or strategy that even *might* work.

I have a plan which I’m pretty sure would work, if enough people got behind it. Unfortunately, for that to happen it seems the shiet is going to have to hit the fan first.

[Borden]

Ideas like those raised here always confuse me. I think it's the blanket use of words like 'we'.

I could wax vitriolic here (what, me? Never!) about exactly why I don't buy into the concept of the human race as one big almighty 'we', but there's little point. If you're not furious already you probably haven't got it in you ... and me being furious is something you either don't understand or are already on board with. The same with Dennis's exasperation. You either get it or you don't.

Are we all sure who we're angry at and why? I see little point in being angry any more at the controllers. They are just doing what soulless predatory scum does. It's not as though there's a conscience within them that your outrage can appeal to. They're like termites ... bleak, perverted engines of destruction and consumption. That's probably unfair on termites.

How about being angry at the greater human race and its bovine acceptance, which amounts to complicity? I think if there's ever any real point in anger, that's a more valid one. But the majority of people will sneer and laugh if you approach them about half the subjects discussed in this forum. Much of the limp-minded alternative idiom and mythology doesn't help, of course. But the world at large is hypnotised, and has its nose buried in the trough of poisoned feed with which the 'farmer' fattens and stupefies them. But you've looked up from the trough, haven't you? I have. What makes us different?

Perhaps if you buy into the 'we' in regard to all of this ... you're missing a vital point. It strikes me that the 'brotherhood of man', 'we are all one' philosophy is part of the corruption. Viewed from a distance - the vantage point of say, an extre-terrestrial or a god ... homo sapiens is a sick, perverse, destructive and cruel creature. Inquisitions, witch burning, crusades, perpetual war, etc, etc, etc. If we are all one, in some nebulous 'spiritual' sense, then by extrapolation that extends to all living creatures. Anything less encompassing is idiot speciesism. 'We are all one' also extends to mass murderers, bio-engineering and pharmaceutical genocide merchants, child molesters. By the 'we are all one' rationale, those people need to be healed, not demonized. They're one of this big 'us', aren't they?

Actually, I believe that we are all pluriforms of 'God'. Including termites. If there were an ever-lasting hell, which there isn't - I would drag the worst offenders in the world's history out, while admittedly allowing their heads to bounce off every step on that giant, etheric staircase. Compassion is there at the end of the story for me - for every monster or even simply obnoxious idiot, charlatan or dullard I rail against. I realize that people who don't know me and have seen me rant might have a different picture of me as someone who hates, but I really don't. However, while on this 'stage', it does none of us any good to approach monstrousness and complicity from the point of view that we are all pluriforms of God and so it's all somehow okay. It isn't okay. 'God' has split up in order to find Himself ... and has manifested as several billion easily led idiots. On a cosmic level, I suppose it is okay. As it's okay if you burn to death or something equally nasty. Here on the stage though, it's not okay. What's the point in descending to this 'stage' to perform if our attitude is that it's nothing to be involved in? That would be bad acting.

What is 'winning'? What are the sides in this war? Is it even a war? Imagine a world where every institution of evil was rumbled and overthrown ... where the cabal was expunged and the human race stood completely free of their control. Within picoseconds they'd be running around organising how to get the abbattoirs, banks and chemotherapy back on-line. They'd be excitedly handing out power to those who seek it. The new boss would be the same as the old boss. The human race is stupid. The human race is right where it wants to be, because otherwise it would be somewhere better.

If we are all pluriform thoughts in the mind of 'God' ... then I would rather be a tiny, isolated good idea than try to integrate or influence the greater 'mind'. I believe that in itself is a worthy goal. The world, the mind, is where it wants to be.

[Heart-2-Heart]

Are we winning ?...if we are ...that means ... someone is losing ...

those losers .. must then be ... the others ...

not us ... we are we..

and "we" all know that ...

Good old us

weyoume


Are we loosing ? ...if we are ..that means...those losers ...the others

will say ...we won ...and the good old ..."we"..have become the others

Duality is a funny one ...




H2h


Nice thread Dennis

[Kryztian]

As I discuss the issues with people and observe their reactions, I find myself alternately saying "these people just don't get it, they are holding on to old beliefs that don't serve them anymore" and "yes, people are starting to wake up, they are willing to question the nature of reality." I guess the net result is that people are waking up a bit, but just not as fast as I would like them to.

Snowden's disclosure of NSA spying has been a wake-up call. Initially, I saw a lot of people try to blame the whole thing on "the other party" (the one they didn't vote for) but are now seeing that it is a bi-partisan phenomena - the idea that "It's the Liberals/Conservatives/Dems/Repubs who are messing things up" was a major obstacle for people to see towards the truth and that idea is coming down.

I kind of want to see people out demonstrating in the streets in my country, as they are in Brazil and Turkey, however, I am not out there, so who am I to demand they raise hell. Perhaps it's a good thing that the paradigm shift isn't filled with trauma. Why can't we wake up and at the same time Keep Calm and Carry On?

So I just look at the people around me, gauge where they are at, and plant the seeds that will get them to the next step. Perhaps they aren't ready yet to join Project Avalon, but they are constantly getting one step closer to where the might be willing to accept the things we discuss here.

[Peace of Mind]

When I see people questioning everything it gives me great hope about our future because it’s a sign of being responsible.

There was a time where people questioned nothing and always believe the government had their best interest at heart. Now people are viewing and questioning the state of our economies, they/we are recognizing where/who/how deceit is used to spread propaganda, we are becoming wiser to our collective intentions…and how they came about. People are angrier these days because they know/feel/and see the B.S. Most of us just don’t know how to respond, yet (but they/we want to).This is a starting point, imho. So I do see the wickedness being exposed more than ever, but at the same time this can be seen as a rise in negativity.

The thing is we need to continue to act on what we question because if we don’t we leave room for the corrupt to sliver away into another crack just to resurface later with new tactics. As long as we see the negativity there will be hope, but we have to act in order to get anything done. If we don’t act we will just become blinded again with newer improved measures. We are a species of brilliance, but became trained to become frightened slaves. There is no other creature on this planet that allows it to be ruled unjustly, so why should we be the ones out of all the intelligent life on this planet to fall for this?

As I said, this is what we are waking up to and this realization will break the chains of bondage…after we remove the fear. We got this!!

Peace

[Cerridwen]

I think tapping into our true natures of what we really are is the only way to live here in this place. I can’t be bothered by every little piece of news about what ‘they’ are doing today. Like Borden said, they’re just behaving in the manner that they’re bred to be. It’s like getting upset for a mosquito bitting you. What good does that do you? If you don’t want to be mosquito food, you have choices to not be...or you can just sit there and whine loudly after being bit over and over again, while scratching at the all of the red bumps.

For me, the winning vs losing is purely personal and I’m winning. It’s true, there are days here and there when I have a set back or two, but I can see my world evermore clearly each day. I’m growing and becoming what I was meant to be. If I stop and start worrying about everyone around me, I just get too depressed. I’m all for helping and supporting others who are on the same journey, but I won’t be caught up and brought back down by individuals who aren’t on my same path. I’m not a crab to be pulled back down into the barrel by the other crabs. I can see that the the top has been left open and I’ve made a break for it.

I believe that by focusing on winning in our personal lives, it will piss ‘them’ off. I believe that they’re dependent on using fear and intimidation just like all bullies are. Take that away from them and they become powerless. They only have the power over us that we give to them. I’m done being food.

[Borden]

Posted by Cerridwen (here)
I think tapping into our true natures of what we really are is the only way to live here in this place. I can’t be bothered by every little piece of news about what ‘they’ are doing today. Like Borden said, they’re just behaving in the manner that they’re bred to be. It’s like getting upset for a mosquito bitting you. What good does that do you? If you don’t want to be mosquito food, you have choices to not be...or you can just sit there and whine loudly after being bit over and over again, while scratching at the all of the red bumps.

For me, the winning vs losing is purely personal and I’m winning. It’s true, there are days here and there when I have a set back or two, but I can see my world evermore clearly each day. I’m growing and becoming what I was meant to be. If I stop and start worrying about everyone around me, I just get too depressed. I’m all for helping and supporting others who are on the same journey, but I won’t be caught up and brought back down by individuals who aren’t on my same path. I’m not a crab to be pulled back down into the barrel by the other crabs. I can see that the the top has been left open and I’ve made a break for it.

I believe that by focusing on winning in our personal lives, it will piss ‘them’ off. I believe that they’re dependent on using fear and intimidation just like all bullies are. Take that away from them and they become powerless. They only have the power over us that we give to them. I’m done being food.

Perfect. Beautiful.

[Another1]

Posted by Cerridwen (here)
I believe that by focusing on winning in our personal lives, it will piss ‘them’ off. I believe that they’re dependent on using fear and intimidation just like all bullies are. Take that away from them and they become powerless. They only have the power over us that we give to them. I’m done being food.

I like your tude

After pi***** them off I think it scares the hell out of them to see an independent rise up to any level. They know what they would do with real power and are afraid we'll do it to them.

[Dennis Leahy]

I'm reading every response, and re-reading them too. My 'thanks' does not mean agreement or disagreement - just thanks for taking the time to communicate your perspective.

Yes, the OP was based on a duality phrase (winning/losing), but note the one remark I made about arriving at the tree together:

(a story that has gone around)

An anthropologist proposed a game to children in an African tribe. He put a basket full of fruit near a tree and told the kids that whoever got there first won the sweet fruits.

When he told them to run they all took each other’s hands and ran together, then sat together enjoying their treats. When he asked them why they had run like that as one could have had all the fruits for himself, they said: “UBUNTU, how can one of us be happy if all the other ones are sad”?

UBUNTU in the Xhosa culture means: “I am because we are”.

There doesn't need to be a loser, even if a cadre of sociopaths are angry that they did not get to unleash the destructive force they intended. When the Earth, the air, the water, and the soil are healed, when species and biomes can live normal cycles, when all know abundance, even the Global Rulers who evidently do not want this to occur become winners too - right along with all the human and non-human life forms.

Rather than believing that mass enlightenment will precede that vision of peace and abundance, I believe that the peace and abundance can create the mental environment for spiritual development. With mass and massive fear and anxiety, few will pursue or attain spiritual development. (Of those that do, they may believe that strife and pain drove them to seek spiritual development - and it may be true for them. - but for most people, I doubt it is true.)

That probably gives a strong hint why I don't believe that a mass spiritual awakening will usher in a new era - it makes more sense to me that the new era could be triggered by physical and emotional change, and then when the era arrives and our spirits lose fear and gain calmness, spiritual awakening will be commonplace.

Very pleased to see some folks like Chinaski, Jake, Roman, and now Borden returning to the campfire. And, I love the sense that our minds are independent and unique - sometimes in agreement and sometimes strong disagreement - but without consternation about expressing our (perspective of) truth.

Dennis