Moderation, censorship and protectionism.

[Mike]

you don't believe in the genius gene, Chris? clearly you havent been reading my posts

well we all know the entire population will never be entirely homosexual, so even offering it up as a reference point to use phrases like "unhealthy" and "tolerable deviation" make little sense to me. oh well.

just to be clear: would you say that homosexuality, as it currently stands - as a "deviation" and not as world-wide plague - is unhealthy?

p.s. heil hitler!

[ulli]

Posted by Chinaski (here)
you don't believe in the genius gene, Chris? clearly you havent been reading my posts

well we all know the entire population will never be entirely homosexual, so even offering it up as a reference point to use phrases like "unhealthy" and "tolerable deviation" make little sense to me. oh well.

just to be clear: would you say that homosexuality, as it currently stands - as a "deviation" and not as world-wide plague - is unhealthy?

p.s. heil hitler!

And my guess is that have not yet experienced the power of mind over matter, or mind over genes...
which is higher and overrides the gene theory.
This is the angle I hear Christian proposing, in my view.
There is no dogma in his statements, nor did he say that governments should interfere in people's choices....
he only stated his beliefs about genes and choice, coming from his experience as an enlightened being.
Which is fair.
Also I believe that Christian is a galactic soul, who only visited Germany briefly to get a decent academic and brain-sharpening education, but he is not one of "them" Nazis.

Personally being originally from Germany, but having left there as a child, only to discover anti German sentiments blasting at me wherever I met uneducated Brits in London, I find even the most humorous insinuations about my German heritage tedious now, having had to put up with people too ignorant to know that I was born well after WW2, and received a non fascist education...actually more socialist than Nazi.

So it grinds me a bit to have to see this kind of rhetoric still popping up in 2013. Will it ever end?

About the thought-trumps-gene theory: few people know about it, (although many Avalonians do....)
because of the elite's efforts to keep all those metaphysical, occult sciences, and self-transformation schools hidden from the masses, as the spreading of such knowledge would hurt their power base.

[Mike]

Posted by ulli (here)

Posted by Chinaski (here)
you don't believe in the genius gene, Chris? clearly you havent been reading my posts

well we all know the entire population will never be entirely homosexual, so even offering it up as a reference point to use phrases like "unhealthy" and "tolerable deviation" make little sense to me. oh well.

just to be clear: would you say that homosexuality, as it currently stands - as a "deviation" and not as world-wide plague - is unhealthy?

p.s. heil hitler!

And my guess is that have not yet experienced the power of mind over matter, or mind over genes...
which is higher and overrides the gene theory.
This is the angle I hear Christian proposing, in my view.
There is no dogma in his statements, nor did he say that governments should interfere in people's choices....
he only stated his beliefs about genes and choice, coming from his experience as an enlightened being.
Which is fair.
Also I believe that Christian is a galactic soul, who only visited Germany briefly to get a decent academic and brain-sharpening education, but he is not one of "them" Nazis.

Personally being originally from Germany, but having left there as a child, only to discover anti German sentiments blasting at me wherever I met uneducated Brits in London, I find even the most humorous insinuations about my German heritage tedious now, having had to put up with people too ignorant to know that I was born well after WW2, and received a non fascist education...actually more socialist than Nazi.

So it grinds me a bit to have to see this kind of rhetoric still popping up in 2013. Will it ever end?

About the thought-trumps-gene theory: few people know about it, (although many Avalonians do....)
because of the elite's efforts to keep all those metaphysical, occult sciences, and self-transformation schools hidden from the masses, as the spreading of such knowledge would hurt their power base.

so what are you saying exactly? that Little Richard sat in front of a mirror, chanting "i want to be flamboyantly gay" over n over till it finally happened?

running Hitler jokes aside, i know Christian is one of the good guys, Ulli, and i know you are too, but i expect a little more out of my galactic souls

i'm not from Germany, but if i told you my last name my heritage would be clear. i'm as german as it gets. i'm not sure that'll make my Hitler jokes any more tolerable for you or not, but i thought i'd mention it anyway. ok, i'll stop the Hitler jokes....just for you

[Ernie Nemeth]

Thanks Chinaski, you're funny today.

The tantric sex thing stunned me. The rest of that thought cannot be finished inmixed company. But...

Reminds me of the two bulls on the top of a hill, looking down at a herd of cows. The young bull says, "Hey pop, let's run down there and have our way with one of those cows!" His da drawls, "Na, let's walk down and have our way with all of them." hehe?

[Mike]

Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
Thanks Chinaski, you're funny today.

The tantric sex thing stunned me. The rest of that thought cannot be finished inmixed company. But...

Reminds me of the two bulls on the top of a hill, looking down at a herd of cows. The young bull says, "Hey pop, let's run down there and have our way with one of those cows!" His da drawls, "Na, let's walk down and have our way with all of them." hehe?

Love that one, Ernie

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=IbUxePfsoWE

[norman]

If this thread ( so far ) was a section of a movie, it would be the part where there's a lot of shadowy head following and eyes observing the multiple story line threads on the brink of an action scene where we all get to see how it fits together.

Be a shame to cut the budget and leave us with an unmade epic, me thinks.

However, I do realize that the executive producers are holding their hands closer to the abort button than the finish button.

What usually happens is that the actors and the techies, and possibly the director, reluctantly decide to do their own financing to bypass the compromise at the top level.

Only history decides if it was a classic, the money never does.

[Mike]

Posted by norman (here)
If this thread ( so far ) was a section of a movie, it would be the part where there's a lot of shadowy head following and eyes observing the multiple story line threads on the brink of an action scene where we all get to see how it fits together.

Be a shame to cut the budget and leave us with an unmade epic, me thinks.

However, I do realize that the executive producers are holding their hands closer to the abort button than the finish button.

What usually happens is that the actors and the techies, and possibly the director, reluctantly decide to do their own financing to bypass the compromise at the top level.

Only history decides if it was a classic, the money never does.

indeed sir.

and i notice Christian has just entered this thread, and of course i have to go now...and i'm certain he'll say something clever, and i'm already annoyed i won't have a chance to respond to it tonight

i'd really like to hear from our gay members, personally. might keep the executive directors from pulling the plug

[Beren]

Ulli & other German friends , hold on , there will be always Heil Hitlers upon you...
Don`t allow this to quench your open spirit...

For others , be them German or not (I`m not German and Serbians and my Slavic brothers Russians & Polish heavily suffered under Hitler`s boot, but that`s long gone now) it is history now.
Hitler is dead and his deeds with him.
Maybe there are Hitler wannabees today but they know no nation, they are in every nation.

In case of Raf`s thread here , I believe there was a lot of (if not all) comments which are extremely well said.
Kudos to all!!!

[ulli]

Posted by Chinaski (here)

Posted by ulli (here)

Posted by Chinaski (here)
you don't believe in the genius gene, Chris? clearly you havent been reading my posts

well we all know the entire population will never be entirely homosexual, so even offering it up as a reference point to use phrases like "unhealthy" and "tolerable deviation" make little sense to me. oh well.

just to be clear: would you say that homosexuality, as it currently stands - as a "deviation" and not as world-wide plague - is unhealthy?

p.s. heil hitler!

And my guess is that have not yet experienced the power of mind over matter, or mind over genes...
which is higher and overrides the gene theory.
This is the angle I hear Christian proposing, in my view.
There is no dogma in his statements, nor did he say that governments should interfere in people's choices....
he only stated his beliefs about genes and choice, coming from his experience as an enlightened being.
Which is fair.
Also I believe that Christian is a galactic soul, who only visited Germany briefly to get a decent academic and brain-sharpening education, but he is not one of "them" Nazis.

Personally being originally from Germany, but having left there as a child, only to discover anti German sentiments blasting at me wherever I met uneducated Brits in London, I find even the most humorous insinuations about my German heritage tedious now, having had to put up with people too ignorant to know that I was born well after WW2, and received a non fascist education...actually more socialist than Nazi.

So it grinds me a bit to have to see this kind of rhetoric still popping up in 2013. Will it ever end?

About the thought-trumps-gene theory: few people know about it, (although many Avalonians do....)
because of the elite's efforts to keep all those metaphysical, occult sciences, and self-transformation schools hidden from the masses, as the spreading of such knowledge would hurt their power base.

so what are you saying exactly? that Little Richard sat in front of a mirror, chanting "i want to be flamboyantly gay" over n over till it finally happened?

running Hitler jokes aside, i know Christian is one of the good guys, Ulli, and i know you are too, but i expect a little more out of my galactic souls

i'm not from Germany, but if i told you my last name my heritage would be clear. i'm as german as it gets. i'm not sure that'll make my Hitler jokes any more tolerable for you or not, but i thought i'd mention it anyway. ok, i'll stop the Hitler jokes....just for you

No need to..Im just a bit more sensitive today than usual...stuck in bed with sickness....
distracting myself with my favorite forum to escape boredom.
I can handle all jokes directed at me...
it's just that the endless decades of the anti-German innuendos have worn me down.
In their predictability they lost the power to get a friendly and jovial laugh out of me.

One more thing that I noticed...you read stuff into Christian's post that wasn't there.
Nor should he have to live up to your expectations.

The gene thing is something worth looking at, as well as the darker side of homosexuality, which is an organized effort to catch young straight kids, as they are a greater challenge for the more jaded types, of whom there are plenty...I've spent time in their company, too.

People called me a fag hag in the US, or poofter lover in Britain. I know what I am talking about...the gay community is just as diverse as the rest of us.

Some gay men with strong feminine identities and less aggressive personalities are scared of whats happening at the moment, because it is going too far or their taste, and don't agree with what goes on in those gay pride parades this year.

I don't like to voice what I'm against, normally I focus on the road ahead and being creative in my expression in a positive sense.

But I will say it now...I'm against all extremes that deliberately are designed to create unwanted division...and all rigid dogma, which is actually why I left the fashion world...dogma in there far greater than in most religions.

And the same goes for a large part of the organized gay scene, which is being defended by anyone who has issues with more moderate views than their own.
All views should be acceptable, to keep the discussion going, including some of the moderately critical, yet non-bigoted views about the gay scene.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by norman (here)
However, I do realize that the executive producers are holding their hands closer to the abort button than the finish button.

Despite the dubious cow jokes ... all is well ... carry on .

[christian]

Posted by Chinaski (here)
well we all know the entire population will never be entirely homosexual, so even offering it up as a reference point to use phrases like "unhealthy" and "tolerable deviation" make little sense to me. oh well.

just to be clear: would you say that homosexuality, as it currently stands - as a "deviation" and not as world-wide plague - is unhealthy?

I have some gay and bi-sexual friends, one of them a really good friend actually, well educated, travels a lot, interested in the bigger picture, takes good care of himself, the whole 9 yards. We first met at the gym and at some point he admitted that he'd hit on me, but that he respects me being straight. Very well. He says most of the gays he knows would be a lot more offensive.

Anyways, in my personal perception, there's something off with the energetics of gay guys. I mean, they may be OK and quite healthy overall, maybe even more so than a lot of straight people, but the way I perceive their energy, the energy of a healthy gay person is simply not flowing as it does in a healthy straight person. And I find the flow in a straight person to be more "natural" in a way, this is the best word that I can come up with at the moment, but I'm really at a loss for words here.

That's how I personally perceive it. Because I don't know why I perceive it that way, because I don't know if my direct perception is entirely accurate or maybe tainted, I don't really wanna make a judgement other than based on the reference point that you find quite senseless.

With homosexuality as it stands now, I don't see it as a danger for the human race.

For that it just doesn't have enough momentum, it's just a queer thing.

Posted by Chinaski (here)
so what are you saying exactly? that Little Richard sat in front of a mirror, chanting "i want to be flamboyantly gay" over n over till it finally happened?

running Hitler jokes aside, i know Christian is one of the good guys, Ulli, and i know you are too, but i expect a little more out of my galactic souls

I've been a Nirvana fan, guitar player, and pot smoker in my teens. I picked up all of that from people in my environment, I saw that, I was curious, I got into it. That happened with a lot of things in my life that I saw in my environment, I got into things to try it out when I figured it might be interesting, and so I made various experiences and went through various phases.

I still play the guitar!

The upbringing is of course also important, past lives, and last but not least the personal choice. The way I see it, a lot of things play a role, the genes do. But also what energies you allow to flow through you, how you attune yourself, what you decide to channel. Whether from your environment our out of the cosmic matrix. I find this "it's all in the genes" thing very disempowering actually... I expect a little more there von meinem galaktischen Bruder.

Posted by ulli (here)
And my guess is that have not yet experienced the power of mind over matter, or mind over genes...
which is higher and overrides the gene theory.
This is the angle I hear Christian proposing, in my view.
There is no dogma in his statements, nor did he say that governments should interfere in people's choices....
he only stated his beliefs about genes and choice, coming from his experience as an enlightened being.
Which is fair.
Also I believe that Christian is a galactic soul, who only visited Germany briefly to get a decent academic and brain-sharpening education, but he is not one of "them" Nazis.

You're too kind, I don't know if I deserve that much.

Yeah, I mean search for "meditation can change dna" and there you got it, scientifically proven. It's a funny discussion anyways when 99% of the DNA hasn't even been deciphered...

You may be quite right with your analysis at the end... I'm seriously looking to move from Ecuador to Greece in September, which would be fun as a German, I guess.

Someone's gotta do something for the Völkerverständigung.

[ulli]

The generations of Germans after the Nazi era was raised very carefully,
especially the high school kids, to not ever be too nationalistic, not even patriotic.
The Westerners became perfect capitalists and the easterners became perfect communists,
and then came unification with endless challenges for both sides to work out their differences.
So Germans who live overseas, play quite an important role in clarifying where there are misunderstandings.

O, I meant to mention earlier, but forgot. I believe I announced it once on the Here and Now thread: when I used to live downstairs from the shoe designer Manolo Blahnik, and we were quite close he told me that I was a male homosexual in a female body, and a lot of gays were jealous of me. Later another gay designer friend Antony Price, sorry about the name dropping....burst out one day OMG, you're one of us!!! Recognizing that I have a male mind, but female emotions.
My taste in men is gay taste.

[norman]

When I hear about such gays as those who told you those things, I want to tell them they are peering down the wrong end of the telescope.

I don't want to snatch it out of their hands, I want to know who put it in their hands that way around, and why.

[ulli]

Somehow I found their comments helpful then. It explained things...like why I was not a lesbian, although my bossy manner made people assume that I was. I knew always that I was not, and where my sexual orientation lay.
I loved being around men, but cherished mostly platonic relationships, and gays were good at that.

I'm over sixty now, live far from that world, and have reinvented myself more times than I can count.
I'm sure they would never say that to me now, if they met me again. They'd see a crone.

[Beren]

Posted by ulli (here)
Somehow I found their comments helpful then. It explained things...like why I was not a lesbian, although my bossy manner made people assume that I was. I knew always that I was not, and where my sexual orientation lay.
I loved being around men, but cherished mostly platonic relationships, and gays were good at that.

You were simply too German...

[Ultima Thule]

About the gay gene, agenda to push same-sex marriage etc.:

I buy gay gene, I feel I can see the feminine in males and the masculine in females - opposite sex insides in opposite sex body. And this is where I hope that you don't get me wrong.. Beyond that I am worried that some of the ongoing increasing amount of gay people might be due for example the excess use of msg during adolescense which crosses blood-brain-barrier and can shift the sex hormone equilibrium out of balance. Also the fact that many youngsters are insuline-resistent even from birth or very early years makes a huge impact in their hormonal cascade, quite possibly having the effect that boys don't quite grow up a man and girls not a woman, but instead they are more in between - resulting in (I would think/speculate) more of bisexual tendencies as opposed to strictly gay.

Now this is all okay, but as nothing is black or white, not is this matter from biophysical point of view. What I have no idea about is, whether these hormonal mix-ups have been deliberate (via skewing of our nutrition, msg and others, not to speak contraception pill residues and plastics containing hormone analogues)or accidental and then piggybacked on?

So, some are born gay, some develope so, I would say quite few make a conscious choice. All this is okay if seen from a good point of view, and I feel that even Dougs pov had some validity, I feel he had some valid concerns, that didn't come out quite nicely though. If I understood correctly he had concerns of the piggyback-issue.

Being should be enough, although we are bombarded with views of what is the right way to be. Straight, gay, bi, okay.
Be the best person you can and find a way to let your soul come through, that should cut it.

UT

[norman]

Posted by Ultima Thule (here)

.....Being should be enough.....

Being has always been enough.

That's the respect bit, and I respect all outcomes as persons I meet.

In the background, I'm fuddled about what the hell is going on.

[Gekko]

Posted by ulli (here)
So it grinds me a bit to have to see this kind of rhetoric still popping up in 2013. Will it ever end?

Right. Now imagine half a thread dedicated to explaining how a German's energetics are unnatural, how their heritage is spotty; admonishing you that being German is a choice, showing that you can change your unfortunate situation with enough hard work.

What people are advocating here is tantamount to Gay Conversion Therapy. "Pray the gay away". It doesn't work. All it causes is more trauma and shame.

It isn't enough for one's sexuality to be a 'merely tolerable deviation'. It's not second-class love. The hierarchy is what justifies violence and discrimination, as happens when people are viewed lesser than.

[Beren]

Posted by Gekko (here)

Posted by ulli (here)
So it grinds me a bit to have to see this kind of rhetoric still popping up in 2013. Will it ever end?

Right. Now imagine half a thread dedicated to explaining how a German's energetics are unnatural, how their heritage is spotty, that; admonishing you that being German is a choice, showing that you can change your unfortunate situation with enough hard work.

What people are advocating here is tantamount to Gay Conversion Therapy. "Pray the gay away". It doesn't work. All it causes is more trauma and shame.

It isn't enough for one's sexuality to be a 'merely tolerable deviation'. It's not second-class love. The hierarchy is what justifies violence and discrimination, as always happens when people are viewed lesser than.

You have to observe better and see that no one here is looking at homosexual people as lesser than other people.
By the very association that someone calls themselves hetero or homo sexual is a lowering action. They make themselves victims of their sexual desire and drive.

Elevating yourself above sexual drive of any kind is what makes us who we really are.

What good will it bring if a person constantly define their whole life through prism of either having hetero or homosexual sex?
Do not be slave to sex and define yourself by higher standards.

People will see this and take care of this and then no one would really care what kind of sex you like and what kind of people you are attracted with.

But if we want to be totally honest homosexual behavior is a sexual deviation from the physical point of view. Since only + and - are attracting itself by natural forces. You can attract + and + or - and - but it takes a lot more energy to do that. And if you observe closely many people suffer from this later in life- they spent too much energy against nature.

But again never forget of choices souls had before they came in this world. I am not a judge to this. Hence I will never judge people who behave different than me but I may like it or not. But what I will always do is respect them as a manifestation of God. Heavenly instrument who decided to follow its own path. Respect.

[Ernie Nemeth]

For a few months I hung around with a gay man. Since people will judge and I don't want that biased trip on my personal life, I will not tell you why this man was extremely important to me, at the highest of levels. I can honestly say this man was my better, far outperforming me in spiritual matters. He was in fact a mentor of mine.

He told me about the average lifestyle of a gay man in Toronto. It is very promiscuous. The details would curl the hairs of the most staunch homophobes, so I'll save you that shock.

There is nothing wrong with this man. I'd call him friend before I'd say the same of many heteros. His spirituality is something most of us can only aspire to. As is his principles. And his love for his fellow man/woman. And he cares dearly for this world of ours.

By the way, I also have some bad genes we might want to take a look at. I'm skinny, maybe we can start a thread about the evils of that. And I was given a set of character traits that make it impossible for me to conform or play the clique game and do the name calling thing. Maybe we can find the spiritual gene and the nice person gene - and abort every other fetus. Then we'd have the world we all wish we lived in. voila!