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    Avalon Member Delight's Avatar
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    Default Bock Sa Ga

    Ior Bock was a most controversial character and he was murdered in late 2010 by some young men who worked for him. People might want to dismiss his "history" and "Misstory" as too far out, too much to consider. However, the SA GA he tells is compelling story. Despite the way it might offend modern sensibilities, it actually makes some eugenic sense. Especially challenging are the hygeine practices and social structure that is suggested to maintain the health of Pi Pol (people).

    According to Ior Bock, he recalled the lineage of Earth millions of years ago. It all started at the North Pole....

    Quote At her funeral on 23 June 1984, Ior claimed that his mother Rhea (Boxström-Svedlin) had left him a very specific duty, confirmed in her will, to bring their ancient and unknown family-saga to the attention of professional historians as well as the public. The first recordings were done in Swedish in 1984 and 1985 at The Archive of Folklore in Helsinki. Later he gave further outlines and specifics in numerous tapes and in 1996 the Finnish writer Juha Javanainen collected some basic extracts in the book Bockin Perheen Saga (Helsinki, 1996).

    In his saga Ior Bock employs a distinct etymology, based on the letters of the Scandinavian alphabets (Swedish and Finnish language). To support his (allegedly) historical saga he related it to old Scandinavian folklore, describing a nucleus that is supposed to be the origin of both the Scandinavian and the Finnish cultures.

    The saga describes a detailed sound-system, built on the sounds of the Scandinavian alphabet. Based on this phonology the saga explains an extensive mythology and a chronological, stringent history. The "historical outline" covers a number of topics; from the origin of man before Ice Age and a global caste-system, to the breakup of this global population due to the appearance of the Ice Age, climatic fluctuations and continental drift.

    The saga explains how this first, tropical culture was divided into ten different kingdoms as life on each continents developed into parallel but different biotops. During the eons of time when ice-time proceeded a small group of people, the Aser, where caught inside the ice of northern Europe – inside the Baltic Ocean.

    The end of Ice Age broke this isolation and became a "new start" of humanity – since all the various populations could now be reached – and reach each other. Regaining contact with the various tropical kingdoms the Aser were instrumental in spreading a "root-system" of words, to develop a common ground for communication and exchange between the various cultures.

    Since the legendary "deluge" (Younger Dryas) 10.000 years ago the connections rapidly established and similar cultures started on all the different continents, leading to parallel cultures on the respective continents, leading to the ethnicities, constitutions and civilizations we know as Stone Age and Classical Antiquity.[13]

    During these millennia, the Asers were drafting and cultivating their inter-continental connections, enhancing the exchange of knowledge, skills and produce world-wide. The purpose was to produce common features and grounds for language and culture, through the exchange of procreators, skills, crafts, arts and architecture.

    Their method was co-operation between parallel constitutions of royals, nobilities and laymen. According to the saga the Eurasian monarchies were established shortly after the Ice Age. From the one arctic group of people that survived Ice Age, called "Aser", only three families were first made to explore the Eurasian north – and leave offspring in their respective regions; east, west and south of the Baltic Ocean.

    These off-springs became the core-families of three major kingdoms, who managed to grow into the societies that managed to populate western, central and eastern Europe. Within the open lands of northern Eurasia, the royals were producing 'houses' of nobility to inhabit and populate the various regions and there found a third cast of offspring, called Earls, to produce structured societies within their respective shires and villages.

    The Bock saga explains that the historical kingdoms of Eurasia descended from the three kingdoms found by the Aser already during early Stone Age. Similar constitutions is claimed to have existed already in the southern hemisphere, on all other continents. Since the ancestry of all these tropical and arctic royals would lead back to a common source, the word "All-father" was recognized by them all as a common origin of all human beings.

    Thus the renewed contact and resurrection of common roots and goals resulted in a positive contact and exchange, producing a world-wide net of genetic and academic exchange – leading to the innovations, produce and trade of agriculture, metals and alloys that led to advanced arts, tools, craft and technology.

    A major theme in the poetry and prose of the Bock saga is the exposure of the ancient fertility-cultures of antiquity, whose legal traditions – based on inheritance – where contradictory to the interest of foreign invaders and illegal regimes. Consequently, to handle an occupied population, the religions of the Middle Ages exercised an absolute repression of all the old fertility rituals, since they required and recreated the memory of the old codexes.

    Consequently the heathen traditions of sexual visibility and identification was massively condemned and sanctioned with the most severe of punishments. One such heathen tradition was that of drinking the "divine vine" or the "water of wisdom", which literally refers to the female sap (ejaculate) and the male sperm.

    According to the saga the pagan traditions were based on a naturalistic philosophy, where it was regarded a virtue to "save and not spill ones semen or female ejaculate". This could be done by sharing the liquids in a "69" or by practicing autofellatio – which the family-saga names sauna-solmu. The Finnish expression for this "sacred vines" would be Viisauden Vesi—the water of wisdom, which in other traditions are known under cryptic terms such as "The Water of Life", "The Seeds of Life", "The Nectar of The Gods" or "The Elixir of the Blessed".

    In the early Christian context these classical issues were mis-translated, to "blood" and "flesh", to stigmatize the pagan peoples as wild beasts, vampires and cannibals. Paradoxically the liturgy is still defining "the flesh and blood of Jesus" as our most sacred rite, the communion.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ior_Bock[/PDF]
    Bock Saga by Jim Chesnar

    Seminar with Jim Chesnar, about human origin and cultural and Racial history according to the Bock Saga. The seminar was filmed in Thailand at Christmas time on Luciadag, in the year 2010. Jim Chesnar, whom since 1985 has been both a personal friend to Ior Bock – a Bock Saga researcher – and was present at the first excavation of Leminkäinens Temple (1987), talks about the creation of the Earth, the plants, the animals, mankind, Paradise time, the Ice age and Religion right up to the 3rd RangnarRock, the slaughter of the Asers in the year 1050. Jim also provides examples of the magic of life and clues to the key which is hidden in the Rot-language – Rot is the key to all of the world’s languages – Rot is the first language of the Planet !!!

    several videos here:

    http://torshammer.eu/linkbox/video-bockcast/

    [/YOUTUBE]

    More reading FYI
    http://paulapeterson.com/Bock_Saga.html

    http://geofftop.com/DISCUSSION.php?ID=95

    http://www.nomind.me/8/bocksaga.html



    Quote According to Ior Bock, the Rot/Van languages are the basis of all languages on our planet. Today the Finnish language is very complex. Each word can be used in one of at least 165,252 forms, cases or tenses. The English language is close to the original Rot sound system. However, the unique capacity of the Rot / Van languages to contain so much variety is in stark contrast to the English language which only use relatively few tenses such as past, present, future and possibility.

    Further, each sound (letter) within the Rot/Van language has unique meaning and each word can be assimilated from front to back, back to front and from the middle out.

    The Kela of Sound is made up of 29 sounds and combinations there of, the Alphabet, the Ring. There are 23 sounds in one Ring and 7 outside of the Ring. There are 10 clear vocals (vowels) with the remainder being combination sounds. The sound “i” (pronounced EE) is repeated twice so altogether 29 different sounds. Within the Alphabet,”i” represent the Bock. The stem of the “i” represents the **** of the Bock and the dot represents the sperm. The second “i” represents the Allfather and is also pronounced EE as in the I-Ching, pronounced EE-Ching.

    Ta is to give (germinate the seed knowledge) and Rot is the sounds. Therefore, to Ta-Rot (Tarot) is to create the knowledge of sounds. The ancient learning system of Tarot appears to have changed and now only contains the 23 main sounds, which are represented in the Major Arcana of Tarot cards. The Major Arcana has 22 cards however the first card designated 0 (The Fool) is represented at the beginning and at the end, making 23 paths. http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.co...=19062.15;wap2

    Aser alphabet from Ior Bock
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Delight; 14th August 2013 at 17:41.

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bock Sa Ga

    Interesting. A fair bit of this has a ring of truth I think. Thanks for the attachment.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: Bock Sa Ga

    In the temple they excavated it was rumoured that there was a layered structure akin to the one above Giza pyramid kings chamber.

    As a Finnish person Ior Bock always came off to me as having bits of wisdom buried deep under decades of cannabis-use which he had started by his own admission at the age of 14, amounting to 54 years till his death.

    I'm more inclined to think that whatever he had in him to relate to the world got mixed up quite bad. Having said that, one has to wonder the similarities that one might find in his saga in relation to Atlantis-story.

    Re the title, in finnish Ior Bock was referring to his family saga, instead of sa ga as separate syllables.
    Saga being a nordic word for a quest or journey or the likes.

    As an example of how imo he has drawn up conclusions and ran with them is how he talks of the capital of Finland, Helsinki having the origin of its name as ancient. Starting with Hel. The name however seems to have had its origin in the swedish settlers that came from Helsingland not that long ago.
    The alphabet he is reciting in that video is the finnish alphabet with a older generation pronounciation.


    UT
    Last edited by Ultima Thule; 14th August 2013 at 08:33.

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    Default Re: Bock Sa Ga

    Quote Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
    In the temple they excavated it was rumoured that there was a layered structure akin to the one above Giza pyramid kings chamber.

    As a Finnish person Ior Bock always came off to me as having bits of wisdom buried deep under decades of cannabis-use which he had started by his own admission at the age of 14, amounting to 54 years till his death.

    I'm more inclined to think that whatever he had in him to relate to the world got mixed up quite bad. Having said that, one has to wonder the similarities that one might find in his saga in relation to Atlantis-story.

    Re the title, in finnish Ior Bock was referring to his family saga, instead of sa ga as separate syllables.
    Saga being a nordic word for a quest or journey or the likes.

    As an example of how imo he has drawn up conclusions and ran with them is how he talks of the capital of Finland, Helsinki having the origin of its name as ancient. Starting with Hel. The name however seems to have had its origin in the swedish settlers that came from Helsingland not that long ago.
    The alphabet he is reciting in that video is the finnish alphabet with a older generation pronounciation.


    UT
    I have read that traditional archeology is showing settlements 40,000 years ago in the far north.
    In some ways, the story explains many heathen practices and other aspects of the past order.
    The similarities with the Atlantis story and an explanation for the way that castes systems were implemented was interesting to me.

    What would you "keep" of his story as a base of further exploration?
    Do you think there is something valuable in the claims of the old Finnish language being the original language?
    Thank you very much for your knowledgeable reading on this story.

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    Default Re: Bock Sa Ga

    Myth and reality hang together. When I read in the Bock saga, I saw things like a social structure based on a belief (or was it a knowing) that an elixer of life was the conduit of health.. there was the emphasis on breeding genetics through selecting characteristics (strength and physique in men and beauty and strength in women). The idea that there is a harmonious way to live that supports health seemed to be worked out through the practices. A mythic element of qualities informs reality. It is real itself and is something we may question and influence.

    There are so many pieces to this Bock saga, language, ethics, biology, customs, the fanatastic. It is really rich for me at the moment.
    Here is a bit that touches on how mythic elements travel widely....

    Quote The threefold element of the etheric body RRRUUO, in the word
    > Ruotsi, means Sweden. It then was adopted by the Slavs as Steiner
    > says, and they were called the Russians. Ruotsin kieli, the Swedish
    > language according to Ior Bock's family is "root sing" language, as
    > the Swedish language has this singing quality. The English language
    > according to Bock seems to have Finnish roots as well. He does not
    > expound on it so much, but some examples can be thought of: deer-
    > hirvi, churn-kirnuta, ski-hiihtää. At least England was inhabited
    by
    > a tribe originally coming from Finland, he teaches.
    > >
    > > Mikko
    >
    > It appears that Longfellow was inspired by the Kalevala with his
    epic
    > poem, "The Song of Hiawatha", written in 1855. Yet, the Kalevala
    > hadn't yet been translated into English. This wouldn't happen for
    > another thirty-three years. So, what might have inspired
    Longfellow
    > to write his great american epic? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthro.../message/17754
    In exploring the story, I think elements of other lore from the Edda, the Kalevala and the Rig-Veda are also present in the story? The Bock Saga includes such a figure as Väinämöinen in the Kalevala. I found some discussion that explored "Sampa" as a folk lore of prosperity and fertility.

    Quote Kalevala, a national epic, relates the story of the Sampo--a wealth-generating virtual machine.

    First published in 1835, the "Kalevala" was compiled by scholar Elias Lonnrot from Finnish folk tales and ballads. It played a pivotal role in establishing Finnish (which is unrelated to neighboring tongues) as a means of expression in a country where Swedish, spoken by the ruling class, had been the only official language. It brought a little-known people to the attention of other Europeans, and it inspired Finnish artists ranging from composer Sibelius to painter Akseli Gallen-Kallela, whose depictions of scenes from the epic are national icons.

    According to Sirkka-Liisa Mettomaki of the Finnish Literature Society, the "Kalevala" embodies "a knowledge-based mythology." The hero, Vainamoinen, is a shaman, poet and singer. "All battles are fought with the power of the word," says Mettomaki.

    The Sampo--and the struggle to possess it--is at the very heart of the story. So what exactly is it? That remains rather mysterious. It's said to be made of such things as a swan's quill tip, a barren cow's milk, a small barley grain and a summer ewe's down. Sometimes it seems to be a mill, sometimes a chest. But it's well worth fighting for: it produces not only corn and salt, but also gold.

    The original Sampo is destroyed at the end of the "Kalevala," though its pieces do wash ashore to guarantee prosperity for Finland. http://www.thedailybeast.com/newswee...the-sampo.html
    In passing I noticed reference to an obscure 1959 movie taken from the Kalevala. The theme is of the "Sampo". The movie is on Youtube. It is a chance to hear Finnish language.



    https://youtube.com/watch?v=vW4C-...E986CAAC8E4701

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    Default Re: Bock Sa Ga

    Quote Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
    I'm more inclined to think that whatever he had in him to relate to the world got mixed up quite bad. Having said that, one has to wonder the similarities that one might find in his saga in relation to Atlantis-story.

    Re the title, in finnish Ior Bock was referring to his family saga, instead of sa ga as separate syllables.
    Saga being a nordic word for a quest or journey or the likes.
    UT
    I am sure that the layers are thick on meanings. This is the inspiration for separating syllables. Thanks again for posting.
    Quote "Sa" means to receive. "Ga" means to give. The process of receiving/giving introduced here took place from generation to generation in the Bock Family via the linguistic system; the "sound system", of Rot (say "root") language. The nucleus of this system is a ring of 23 sounds, each of which has specific meaning(s). The meaning(s) of each individual sound must be approached and defined within the context of and in relation to the meaning(s) of all other sounds comprising the ring. The "ring-ing" inspired by the sound system of Rot language demands and cultivates an activity within the human brain that roots, educates and nourishes the integrated processes of consciousness and communciation observable (and intuited) in the laws of nature which we take to mean those laws which actually determine and govern observable events. http://www.nomind.me/08/bocksaga.html.

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    Default Re: Bock Sa Ga

    Everything is coded -- it can be extremely weird once one starts to see what is encoded into language. The very oldest known forms of language (remote south american tribes) has been studied carefully and determined that the older you go back into looking at language the more structured and purposeful it becomes. This is the exact opposite of what we expect - we expect that languages started off as grunts and rough sounds and became more structured and purposeful as it was developed.

    Researchers into languages have noticed that language has been degrading since it's apparent inception into human cultures. The conclusion has to be that language was created in a "perfect" form at first.

    To go out on a limb I will say that it is possible in my mind that language was part of the arsenal of tools that brought the "fall of man". Upon inception into a human mind, language based thought is an extremely restrictive tool (although this may have been done for a valid purpose - I am not a judge ). Ever have the chance to observe children before and after the have adapted fully to language based thought? This is because we are taught by default that only things that can be considered by language are real, and all other things are not - by default of us not being able to think in any other forms except in language, "reality" and "things worthy of consideration" are restricted by this mind programming. If you try to communicate non-language based thought to someone -- you can't, except maybe in a picture or something that induces an emotion - I believe emotion was our first language, and it has been used as weapon against us since language based thought became prevalent.

    So how did humans communicate before language? Telepathy. By being properly connected and being able to consider all things not restricted by the program of language.

    Thus, I see a little more meaning in this Sa Ga than many will, I have still yet to read the PDF though. The topic is interesting. I have another loose connection, but I will save it for another time.

    My 2 cents
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 14th August 2013 at 23:50. Reason: spelling grammar and crap
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: Bock Sa Ga

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Everything is coded -- it can be extremely weird once one starts to see what is encoded into language. The very oldest known forms of language (remote south american tribes) has been studied carefully and determined that the older you go back into looking at language the more structured and purposeful it becomes. This is the exact opposite of what we expect - we expect that languages started off as grunts and rough sounds and became more structured and purposeful as it was developed.

    Researchers into languages have noticed that language has been degrading since it's apparent inception into human cultures. The conclusion has to be that language was created in a "perfect" form at first.

    To go out on a limb I will say that it is possible in my mind that language was part of the arsenal of tools that brought the "fall of man". Upon inception into a human mind, language based thought is an extremely restrictive tool (although this may have been done for a valid purpose - I am not a judge ). Ever have the chance to observe children before and after the have adapted fully to language based thought? This is because we are taught by default that only things that can be considered by language are real, and all other things are not - by default of us not being able to think in any other forms except in language, "reality" and "things worthy of consideration" are restricted by this mind programming. If you try to communicate non-language based thought to someone -- you can't, except maybe in a picture or some that induces an emotion - I believe emotion was our first language, and it has been used as weapon against us since language based thought became prevalent.

    So how did humans communicate before language? Telepathy. By being properly connected and being able to consider all things not restricted by the program of language.

    Thus, I see a little more meaning in this Sa Ga than many will, I have still yet to read the PDF though. The topic is interesting. I have another loose connection, but I will save it for another time.

    My 2 cents
    I really appreciate your "cents". Please come back later with any loose connections. One thing claimed by one of the sources about the "Bock" alphabet was that it could be read in several ways...multi-level. Something HUGE went missing with our perception.

    I wish MY telepathy was intact with clairvision to "see" back along the time line.
    Here is a bit about Scandinavians writing that says "We were Here" way way back.

    Quote THE chief diffusionist culprit is the late H. Barraclough ("Barry") Fell. A Harvard biologist turned epigrapher, Fell acquired a following in 1976 with the publication of America B.C., which discussed the archaeological implications of epigraphy -- the study of ancient man-made markings incised in stone, clay, wood, or bone. Part adventure tale, part introductory textbook on linguistics and anthropology, America B.C. energized a generation with its talk of "Druids in Vermont?" and "Phoenicians in Iowa before the time of Julius Caesar?".....

    The influential archaeologist David Kelley, of the University of Calgary, has his own concerns about Barry Fell's methods -- and yet, unlike Williams and Brian Fagan, in the end he is unable simply to dismiss Fell's work. Kelley is a Harvard-trained scholar of catholic interests, which range from ancient calendrics and archaeo-astronomy to the prehistory of the Celts to the decipherment of Mayan glyphs.

    The way Kelley is described by his friend Michael Coe in Breaking the Maya Code (1992) suggests that he might secretly revel in his controversial, if guarded, support for Fell. Coe wrote,

    [Dave is] a lively mixture of Irish puckishness and New England Yankee sobriety [whose] large frame, bald head, and leprechaun smile are familiar features at [academic] meetings, where he can always be expected to present a paper that may be unusual and even outrageous, according to one's lights, but is usually grounded in the most impeccable scholarship.

    In one such paper, titled "Writing in the Americas," published in October of 1998 in a special edition of the Journal of the West, Kelley focused on a "decipherment" that detractors consider to be one of Fell's most outrageous: the Peterborough Stone, in Ontario. This is a flat table rock measuring hundreds of square feet, upon which a riot of curious incised graffiti are interlaced, seemingly at random. To Fell, who made the stone the focus of his Bronze Age America, the layout consisted of meaningful groups of symbols and letters, carved primarily to document the visit and the commercial enterprise of a Bronze Age Nordic king whom Fell identified as Woden-lithi. "Woden-lithi, of Ringerike the great king, instructed that runes be engraved," reads one section of Fell's ambitious translation of this curious saga in stone. "A ship he took. In-honor-of-Gungnir was its name .... For ingot-copper of excellent quality came the king by way of trial."

    Fell believed that Scandinavian visitors circa 1700 B.C. incised the Peterborough Stone with words and symbols that have distinctly Scandinavian pronunciations and meanings. However, the letters themselves are not depicted with recognized medieval Norse runes. In Fell's, and now Kelley's, view, a pre-runic alphabet was used -- a little-known script called Tifinagh, preserved by a Saharan Berber people known as the Tuareg. It is as if Woden-lithi's scribe used symbols from the Classical Greek alphabet to put together English-sounding words.

    In The Review of Archaeology, Kelley supported Fell's identification (if not his exact translation) of proto-Tifinagh at Peterborough, and he amplified this position in his Journal of the West article. After comparing figures at Peterborough with inscriptions found in the Bohuslän region that once encompassed parts of Norway and Sweden; in the Tassili area of Saharan Africa, near Algeria's border with Niger; and at a southern terminus of the ancient Amber Route, in the Camonica Valley of northern Italy, Kelley wrote,

    I have found that the late Bronze Age of Scandinavia, corresponding to the early Iron Age of Italy and North Africa, shows a lengthy series of innovations in all areas of iconography, including apparent Proto-Tifinagh inscriptions in both Scandinavia and Italy .... The date is about 800 b.c. (900 years later than asserted by Fell).

    Kelley did not shy away from the diffusionist implications of his analysis: "It looks to me as if a single trade route united an area from the gold-mining zone along the Niger [River] to Scandinavia, and I think that oceanic voyagers from Scandinavia, linked into that route, reached Ontario. http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs...01stengel2.htm"
    Last edited by Delight; 15th August 2013 at 00:09.

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    Default Re: Bock Sa Ga

    Is there still a good argument against diffusion from one major civilizing source that trickled out to inform modern civilization? The stories that appear everywhere seem to say communities after a great catastrophe were given instruction form a source (characterized by a "person") that was such a helpful teaching the people readily agreed to change their "ways" in favor of new learning. But when this happened and where the source came is my curiosity. The time frames are daunting.

    I would be so happy that all sources are taken into consideration and a real open source effort to decipher the scripts left as petroglyphs and other writings so we could enjoy knowing the mystery of our origins. Then I would love it if we pulled all sources together that address what we are capable to express. The reason I am interested in the past is for the present. I believe we have been in disbelief of ourselves. The high capacities DeDukshyn suspects may have been eclipsed by the "rational" focus from mental filtering of what is possible. If the ancients could do anything, so may we...they parented us.

    Gobekli Tepe is said to have radiocarboned wood from 11,000 years ago. There are no artifacts or evidence that people lived THERE but the people must have lived nearby. The site is on not on the present coastline. The people who built it must have already developed a substantial amount of leisure and structure to create such a work of high art. It was in the region of the fertile crescent which was one of the "ringlands" the Bock saga original family populated...the Vaners.

    Quote Uudenmaa, the garden of Ooden, which later became known as Eden, is now in Southern Finland and was a tropical paradise and the home of the first people known as the Aser. Ringlands were created outside of Uudenmaa and within each ringland the breeding system was put in place. The people that lived outside of Uudenmaa were known as the Vaner people who had the Van (means "one") language. http://paulapeterson.com/Bock_Saga.html
    Strangely, because I am not sure what to make of the Urantia book, here is a source of notation of "Van" people and Lake Van....

    Quote The Gobekli Tepe ruin excavations are located about 600 miles to the west of the Caspian Sea and about 300 miles southwest of Lake Van, not far from the Euphrates river and to the east of the current town of Urfa in southern Turkey, near its border with Syria.

    This vast area of what is now desert, evidently was once a sprawling center of civilization around 12,000 BC; it is thought that it also might have had significant spiritual importance to its inhabitants. The diggers are finding enormous monoliths - T-top structures comprising stones weighing thousands of tons and arranged in circle formations, indicating an advanced civilization. Many of the monoliths contain skillfully carved pictographs of animals, birds and humans. And all of this pre-dates the pyramids of Egypt by 6,000 years or more...

    In addition, the scientists claim that this gigantic center of architecture, spirituality and/or civilization was deliberately buried and abandoned all of those centuries ago, only to be rediscovered now, in the late 20th and early 21st centuries.

    And so, what does this mean to Urantia Book students?

    Because of its age some archeologists are already calling this the birthplace of religion or of civilization itself, not yet recognizing that even higher civilizations existed within this region nearly 40,000 years ago; the original Garden of Eden was located less than 200 miles to the south west. And, it is within this same mid-East region where the Planetary Prince built the headquarters city of Dalamatia approximately 500,000 years ago.

    Within about 100 miles southwest to 100 miles northeast of the site of Gobekli Tepe are found: the Tigris-Euphrates Valley, home of the second Garden; somewhat further is found Lake Van, and the Caspian Sea regions. These latter areas were the home of the civilizations of Van - his "highland home in the north..."

    From The Urantia Book:

    From about 30,000 to 10,000 B.C. epoch-making racial mixtures were taking place throughout southwestern Asia. The highland inhabitants of Turkestan were a virile and vigorous people. To the northwest of India much of the culture of the days of Van persisted. Still to the north of these settlements the best of the early Andonites had been preserved. And both of these superior races of culture and character were absorbed by the northward-moving Adamites. This amalgamation led to the adoption of many new ideas; it facilitated the progress of civilization and greatly advanced all phases of art, science, and social culture. ~ The Urantia Book (78:3.4)

    One can't help but wonder if this submerged remnant of an evidently advanced civilization could somehow be connected with Van and the Nodite and the later Adamite culture. Here is a tantalizing passage regarding the placement of the Nodites in even earlier ancient times (emphasis by ed.):

    Shortly after the destruction of Dalamatia the followers of Nod became divided into three major groups. The central group remained in the immediate vicinity of their original home near the headwaters of the Persian Gulf. The eastern group migrated to the highland regions of Elam just east of the Euphrates valley. The western group was situated on the northeastern Syrian shores of the Mediterranean and in adjacent territory.

    These Nodites had freely mated with the Sangik races and had left behind an able progeny. And some of the descendants of the rebellious Dalamatians subsequently joined Van and his loyal followers in the lands north of Mesopotamia. Here, in the vicinity of Lake Van and the southern Caspian Sea region, the Nodites mingled and mixed with the Amadonites, and they were numbered among the “mighty men of old.” ~ The Urantia Book (73:1.5). http://truthbook.com/newsletter/dsp_...wsletterID=131
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    Default Re: Bock Sa Ga

    Ior Bock says that originally Pi Pol were brown skinned and that the white skin and light eyes of those sequestered at the North Pole developed later. This is important to note. the migration was first North to escape catyclysm and then return. It might be a way to avoid considering the Bock Saga as promoting "white" rascism?

    I found some more useful information here concerning the connection to Alt Land is

    http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb.../001044-4.html

    Here is a brief review of the saga's statement of human chronology:

    Quote According to the Bocksaga the origin of Mankind was evolving from the first family of Man, - from where all human beings descend. This happened during a period refered to as Paradise-time, when the Planet was perpendicular to the sun and the whole ball was tropical/subtropical.

    As the population grew, the first family made a organisation to govern the growing family; where the first son became the (nature-chosen) King, his 10 brothers became the Kings Council, - and the 12th brother became the new breeder of the family.

    Thus we got the first King of the planet. Now his 12th brother started to breed more than 12 sons/daughters; establishing offspring (called rabis) who went out to start new families and populations around the the first Ringland, called Oden - or "Eden"/"Edon".

    As the Rabis established new ringlands, these where populated and governed by their very sons and daughters, who in turn also got children, who also had the right to make children. Thus the King on top of the globe enlarged the Kingdom of Man, through the "Houses" of his Sons, who in turn created Earls with their Manors - where he created the Sirs (Serfs) who went to build and populate each Yard. The serfs sons though were not to perpetuate the "Seed of Life", creating a uncontrolable number of new people.

    Consequently we had a five-step pyramidal structure - in which the King is related to each and everyone in the Kingdom - through his sons, grandsons, and grand-grandsons. Thus, - from a certain point of view he became a forefather to all inhabitants. And as he descended in a straight line from the very first man and woman this "Pater Familias" was commonly known as "Allfader" - "Father-of-All".

    (Today that still remains in the antique stories of "The Good/God Al-migthy", while "The Lord" actually used to refer to the Landlords, i.e. the Earls and the Rabis. "All-a" though, is seemingly clear.)

    During Paradise we had a population slowly expanding - balancing against the surrounding nature, finding harmony with the universal forces. But - after a very long time some men and women got sloppy and ultimately altered the focus; away from "the good" to the indifferent, disobedient or the outright promiscuous.

    As "Man turned his face away from the Good Father" Paradise-time started to cease. It all ended with a cataclysmic finale, as the whole earth got shaken and stirred and by shockwaves, - as from an Asteroid. From the oceans we got tremendous amount of water evaporating - to assemble around the poles, where it condensed during a period of only three months; to become two enormous ice-caps, one on each pole.

    As said before, - within the ice-cap in the north there was a constant rift, that didn`t freeze up, - because of a stream of hot ocean-water, arriving from the cooking-pot of the Mexican Gulf (where the earth's skin is at its thinnest) towards the east along the rotation of the globe itself, - to be pressed northwards by the deep-ocean polar-currents, - arriving with water still hot - at the Finnish Bay (where the earths "skin" is at its thickest, i.e. oldest).

    Inside this rift and "pocket" of the global ice-cap there was a few of the old royals surviving - even being able to recreate and regenerate themselves - becoming more and more fit to live in an arctic surrounding.

    When this eonic period ended - the palewhite arcticals began to re-create contact with their southern fellow beings - who had kept their basic structure as 10 Kingdoms around in the tropical world. As the arcticals arrived they managed to reconnect to all kingdoms, reflecting on the different languages - recreating basic words from sounds familiar to all men.

    With the arrival of the arcticals in the tropics, the history of the Alt-land-is was fresh on the streets, aprox. 9.500 years ago. But today we can only see the fragments of this news, - as the true stories about us have been violated, altered, twisted, surpressed, falsified and basically forgotten. But still, - around the globe we may find parts or fragments reflecting these most dramatic periods in the history of Mankind.http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb...ML/001044.html
    The dating of human habitation is becoming more distant

    Quote .....archaeologists and population geneticists believe they are on the verge of retrieving a record of human history stretching back almost 50,000 years.

    The record, built on a synthesis of archaeological and genetic data, would be a bare bones kind of history without individual names or deeds. But it could create a chronicle of events, however sketchy, between the dawn of the human species at least 50,000 years ago and the beginning of recorded history in 3,500 B.C. The events would be the dated migrations of people from one region to another, linked with the archaeological cultures and perhaps with development of the world's major language groups.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2000/11/14/sc...ntinent-s.html
    The Bock Saga says that people migrated from Africa at a time of great catyclysms.

    Quote The 40,000-year date "marks a turning point in the history of human evolution in Europe," says Svendsen's team. Around that time, roaming Neanderthals are thought to have given way to anatomically modern humans migrating northwards out of Africa and into Europe. The new haul does not reveal the identity of the Arctic dwellers to be either Neanderthal or modern.
    Either way the result is exciting, says archaeologist John Gowlett of the University of Liverpool, UK. Either Neanderthals travelled further north than was thought, or modern humans moved and adjusted to northern extremes very quickly - within a few thousand years of leaving hotter climes.http://www.nature.com/news/1998/0109...010906-11.html
    Quote "Reminiscent of Timaeus, the Younger Edda legend tells of an ancient Swedish king named Gylfe, who journeys to Asgard, where he assumes the name Ganglere (the wanderer). There he beholds a land of temples, golden palaces, and plowed fields populated by a mighty and noble race called the Asas. Just as the Egyptian priests relate to Solon, king of Athens, the tale of Atlantis and of the great flood that befell his ancestors, the Asas tell Ganglere the tale of Ragnarok. Asas comes from Norse word Aas, which means a “ridge of high land”. Hence the Asas, like the Atlanteans, would appear to be a fictitious race that once dwelt high up on the ice sheet’s glistening, paradise of ice."
    From "Earth Under Fire" by Paul LaViolette
    http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/316edda.html


    Often one will find the remnants of culture in the way things are done. In Africa, there is a nomadic group that has insisted on keeping a wholey oral tradition. They have some unique customs that are not identical but point to traditions discussed by Ior Bock. They are brown skinned and look caucasion. They have determinedly kept to their lifestyle and they call themselves Wodaabe: Herdsmen of the Sun.



    Quote The Wodaabe are a proud nomadic people who are scattered across the sub-Saharan Sahelian steppe in Niger, West Africa. They are said to have originated in the upper Nile basin, and their exact origins are heavily debated by scholars; some say they are from Ethiopia, while others insist they are from Egypt. The Wodaabe keep largely to themselves and rarely marry outside of their own group, which has enabled them to keep their cultural and genetic identity pure. The Wodaabe people trace their origins to two brothers, Ali and Degereejo. A sub-group of the Fulani people, the Wodaabe are traditionally known as the Bororo.http://saharanvibe.blogspot.com/2007...-ceremony.html
    Here is a ceremony that vaguely references a remnant of the ancient breeding system.

    Quote “Gerewol... is a dance before the elders: youths dressed in their finery... dance to a slow stamping rhythm unaccompanied by drums, while praising in song the charms of the maidens [of the other clan]. In this way the girls are graded in an order of beauty. Meanwhile the maidens, who dance in a circle nearby, choose the most handsome and best-dressed youth and point him out by oblique references in song. This goes on until three or four of the best-looking youths and maidens have been paired. At the hirde [evening] gathering which now takes place, the couples are expected to spend the evening together, the rest of the dancers pairing off as they may.



    "Gerewol has the effect of ranging the youths and maidens of a particular age group into a generally recognized order of physical desirability by which the status of a young man or woman in that age group is assessed. But after marriage this status is unimportant, for that of men - and in reciprocal terms that of women - is measured by the number of cattle and children they possess.”

    From this description it is clear that gere wol can have at most a marginal effect on the reproductive success of Wodaabe men. It does not affect the normal course of marriage arrangements, and the selection of the most handsome men in itself has little impact, since they get only one partner for the evening.......The gere wol may however have some indirect influence by reinforcing Wodaabe conceptions of beauty, which emphasize precisely those aspects of Fulani appearance, such as a narrow nose, which differentiate them from the neighbouring Negro populations. The gere wol would therefore help to perpetuate the Wodaabe preference for mating among themselves, and prevent or delay their merging into the surrounding gene pool.
    http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/002034.html







    Quote Cultural Systems

    The Wodaabe divide themselves into 15 lineage groups. Membership is based on both blood-lines and traveling together in the dry season.

    Membership in a lineage groups determines who can marry whom. The only marriages that may occur between members of the same groups are Koobegal marriages arranged during the partners' childhood and formally recognized by the council of elders. Subsequent Teegal marriages are by choice of the partners.

    Lineage-group membership doesn't exclude people from Teegal marriages, but such marriages often cause friction. They usually involve "wife-stealing," often with the consent of the woman but never with that of her husband. Teegal marriage is also a source of friction between the new wife and previous ones. More wives means that fewer resources, such as milk from the husband's herd, are allocated to each. Eloping in a Teegal marriage that carries little stigma allows a Wodaabe woman considerable freedom, but she must leave her children with the ex-husband. The system guarantees the children's place in society while permitting spontaneity and flexibility to the parents.

    The Wodaabe believe in various bush spirits that live in trees and wells and are reputed to be saddened by how people have treated them. All spirits are intertwined in taboos pertaining largely to ecology. Some spirits are dangerous.

    The Wodaabe have acquired some knowledge of Islam and invoke the name of Allah in times of death or difficulty. However, what constitutes the notion of Allah for the Wodaabe is ambiguous.

    More central is a set of values concerning beauty, patience, and fortitude. Physical beauty - a long nose, round head, light skin, and white teeth - is one ideal quality, particularly for men but for women as well. Wodaabe sometimes wear makeup to enhance these attractions.

    Central cultural institutions are the dances - Geerewol, Worso, and Yakke - held during tribal gatherings in the rainy season. During tribal gatherings, flirtations occur and Teegal marriages are negotiated. In the dances, the men of a lineage engage in a beauty contest judged by three young women from an opposite lineage. These young women are picked as judges by the male tribal elders on the basis of their fortitude and patience. They appraise the men on appearance, charm, and dancing ability.
    - See more at: http://www.culturalsurvival.org/publ....d8Vug7ig.dpuf
    http://iws.collin.edu/mbailey/wodaabe.pdf
    Here is a video from Werner Herzog
    Wodaabe: Herdsmen of the Sun
    Last edited by Delight; 22nd August 2013 at 23:38.

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    Default Re: Bock Sa Ga

    Delight - thank you for all the work you have put into to create such an interesting thread. In particular I am so pleased to re-discover this exquisite and moving film on the Wodaabe tribe. I saw it many years ago and it sparked a long standing interest in the culture and social practices of these beautiful people.

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    Default Re: Bock Sa Ga

    Quote Posted by Corncrake (here)
    Delight - thank you for all the work you have put into to create such an interesting thread. In particular I am so pleased to re-discover this exquisite and moving film on the Wodaabe tribe. I saw it many years ago and it sparked a long standing interest in the culture and social practices of these beautiful people.
    This is a new film to me. It is very very moving. I am so glad you found it again because I happened on it..... Maggie

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    Default Re: Bock Sa Ga

    The Bock Sa Ga tells an oral history that describes an ancient civilization in the North from which later civilizations were descendants (like the Sea Peoples, including the Philistines of the Bible, but also as the Hyperboreans and Plato’s people from Atlantis).

    Ior Bock was murdered and attempt to uncover an ancient hall of records went no further after October 2010. This documentary is from one of the participants in the project.

    Quote FORGOTTEN UNDERWORLD by MAJoramo

    The most extraordinary of all Ior Bock's stories, was the one about the entrance, in Gumbostrand, Finland, to the Underworld of Hel. This spiral-shaped Underworld, Ior Bock said, was created by centrifugal forces at the time of the shaping of this planet. It was later used as a Hall of Records and Esthetics, but the entrance was sealed in 987 AD, in fear of this treasure ending up in the hands of Christian invaders.

    In the summer of 1998 I was the connecting link in a project to look closer at this enigma, to try to open the entrance, and to have the whole thing documented on video. What came out of this project, turned out to be quite different from what I had expected.


    And

    IOR BOCK ON BALDER'S TEMPLE by MAJoramo



    MAJoramo has a book The Homer Code Unlocking Civilization[/U] [U]It points to this ancient civilization of the North as the progenitors.



    Quote What I am about to show you started with my discovery that Homer’s legendary Island of Thrinacia, and Trenyken in outer Lofoten, Norway, are one and the same. At the time, this discovery was just a minor adjustment to the epoch making findings by Felice Vinci, that the whole Odyssey of Odysseus was originally located in the north. But this led me to review everything more carefully, also in light of other researchers, notably Iman Jacob Wilkens and Jürgen Spanuth, and more discoveries followed. Eventually this gave rise to a whole new comprehension, with staggering implications for our understanding of ourselves, our past, and our present. For starters, this reconstruction of the whereabouts of the ancient World of Homer implies that there must have been an advanced culture in the high north thousands of years ago.

    This lends credit to what is until today told about such a culture, through an ancient storytelling tradition from Finland. Told from generation to generation in unbroken line since Pagan times, the Bock Saga tells the story of a Lost Civilization we until now only have been getting glimpses of through legends, conjecture and fairy tales. This also brings light onto the shadowy forces which eventually destroyed this most ancient culture. But long before that final destruction another catastrophe, and a more hostile climate, forced many from this lost Norse Civilization to migrate southwards.

    Eventually they became well known in the Mediterranean, not only as the Sea Peoples, including the Philistines of the Bible, but also as the Hyperboreans and Plato’s people from Atlantis. In the end I think you will agree with the subtitle, that herein are indeed unlocked the greatest Mysteries at the Core of Civilization.
    Morten Alexander Joramo Independent Researcher
    This describes the events in his book and locates Atlantis in the North....

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