The Human Carnivore Myth

[Abhaya]

Posted by DNA (here)

Posted by Camilo (here)
You're absolutely WRONG, We are NOT evolved from chimpanzees.

LOL, oh my, I so want to hand you a cup of tea, offer you a chair and enjoy a good sit down.

That is a bit of a strong statement there, might you want to back that up with something more?
It would help the conversation if I knew what you thought we were evolved from?

Let's say for lack of my knowing for sure what you are talking about it has to do with Zacharia Sitchin.

I'm of the exact same opinion as yourself on this matter Camillo. If that is in fact your opinion. I'm a huge fan of Sitchen's work.
But throwing every concievable angle into the discussian really muddy's the waters of the discussian, so I was trying to keep it simple.

That being said, if you take Sitchen's work at face value, then the Annunaki probably took Homo-Erectus or Neanderthals and inserted their own genetics thus creating Homo-Sapien-Sapiens.
Now here is the rub, do you assume these Annunaki were herbivores?
I have read quite a bit of material concerning the Annunaki, and one of my favorite sources The Terra Papers By Robert Morning Sky
states that these folks were descended from a form of wolf, and that they were voracious carnivores, so much so, that they were feared for there practice of stopping to eat recently killed enemies on the battle field.

I hyperlinked a free PDF of the terra papers. Though on the fringe, both John Lear and Val Valarien highly recomend them.

Please note my comment above this post. The fact is, wether we evolved from chimps or not is really irrelevant. We don't need to eat meat to survive any more.... Millions of people have lived full healthy lives as vegetarians. It is a choice now. So what kind of civilization do we want to be. Because in my mind it seems like one that slaughters and kills animals to eat and survive off of is one akin to a reptilian and frankly evil race.

[CD7]

Well I listened to one mp3...I do not have time for all.

I enjoyed it very much and I think theres a lot of weight to what is being said--in the first one anyway!

There's much weight to the idea of as BELOW SO ABOVE...and this view got me contemplating how we are conditioned to think hell is below and heaven is above....very inconsistent mirrors wouldn't we say? Seems that we would have to create heaven below to have the mirror above...

I very much resonate with the thought tht what we do to other beings WILL BE DONE TO US. However we are cultivated consistenly into thought processes without being educated of their consequences--or even the mechanics at work on a universal level--metaphysical level

There are a number of correlations of experience ive had tht this audio brought up for me...interestingly enough our human origins were brought up early on in the thread and my strong opinion about paleoanthropology comes from first hand experience---being there right where past scientists excavated, talking with them personally, as well as seeing/observing evidence right there in Kenya.

Now one exercise we had---(we were all graded in every aspect of the field school we were apart of ) In one exercise a goat's throat was slashed (to be eaten) and we were all encouraged to be apart of the skinning process after the poor thing died hanging from the tree. It was difficult for me..i did not care for the exercise AT ALL. To hear it screaming before they cut it--as it knew something was up..disgusted me. It was apart of our grade to participate but at the same time they gave us the choice to opt out which ofcourse I did.. I didn't care if my grade was affected (as this was mentioned!) to participate in the skinning of this fresh kill was not something I was going to do---does this make me saintly--No, ive eaten meat and still do--chicken, turkey--no beef or pork--but still I eat meat...

However being involved in the process of killing and skinning puts a different spin on it----the hidden slaughter houses and carnage we do not see in US im sure keeps our realization of barbaric processes at bay...


Another point id like to make....if anyone has seen the whole 'documentary' that was recently released called 'Chimpanzee' it was interesting.

We emulate animal behavior a great deal and I have thought that if our role was changed to be the garden tenders of this planet AS WELL AS the caretakers of the animal species--there would be a different world-NO DOUBT ---instead as it stands we a line very closely with animal behavior and visa versa.... Now in this chimp documentary it shows that they were killing other groups over berry stash (trees)...The group who possesses the berry trees is top banana...they are constantly looking over there shoulder for the next group who wants to take over--invade kill and takeover.

Now in connection to this chimp example....Back to Africa---we were also able to question native tribes in Kenya who lived in desolate areas, in straw bomas (like igloos but made of straw) where they killed each other for watering holes. one man had a row of scars all up and down his chest and each line represented someone he killed. NOW hummmmm doesn't this scenario sound familiar??

It has not occurred to them to SHARE, COOPERATE, FIGURE OUT WAYS TO GROW MORE BERRY TREES (or water solution)...To me this line of behavior is VERY CLOSELY related to what we do....it has not occurred to us (or allowed) to SHARE, COOPERATE, OR FIGURE OUT WAYS TO GROW MORE OF EVERYTHING???!!! <-----------but somehow we are more intelligent LOL!!

Ok these are the things that came out of this audio...thanks Roman for posting, I think he brings up a lot of truths about our behavior

[DNA]

Posted by Abhaya (here)
Please note my comment below this post. The fact is, wether we evolved from chimps or not is really irrelevant.

I do not think our evolution in this conversation is irrelevent.

Look, I commend you on your values and I envy your passion on the subject.

I just do not agree with them.

I do not think being a vegetarian makes you any more spiritual than a meat eater.
This is just my belief. Just as you have yours.
Now, I can debate the merits of the situation with you, but I certainly can't share your enthusiasm nor do I want to dampen yours.
I will simply state this, that for seven years I practiced being a vegetarian and when I ended this practice I felt physically and mentally stronger.

Metaphysically speaking, I believe we are spiritual beings, but I believe we are spiritual beings who chose to experience all the different facets of humanity, and I do not think evolving into a transcendental entity is the goal of incarnation, I believe the goal of incarnation is to experience the full spectrum of being human.
Including eating and survivng off of other living things.

Posted by Abhaya (here)
We don't need to eat meat to survive any more.... Millions of people have lived full healthy lives as vegetarians. It is a choice now. So what kind of civilization do we want to be. Because in my mind it seems like one that slaughters and kills animals to eat and survive off of is one akin to a reptilian and frankly evil race.

Now how do you know the reptillians are evil?
That is being a tad bit ethnocentric don't you think?
Stating things like millions of people have lived full healthy lives isn't really something that can be proven.

For the vast duration of humanity starvation has been a constant danger.
As such the choice to be a vegetarian has only been relatively a recent practice for the large part of the human population.

Now I can say with certainty that hundreds of millions of people have eaten meat and lived long healthy lives as a result.

[superconsciousness]

[QUOTE=DNA;715700]

Posted by Abhaya (here)
I will simply state this, that for seven years I practiced being a vegetarian and when I ended this practice I felt physically and mentally stronger.

Metaphysically speaking, I believe we are spiritual beings, but I believe we are spiritual beings who chose to experience all the different facets of humanity, and I do not think evolving into a transcendental entity is the goal of incarnation, I believe the goal of incarnation is to experience the full spectrum of being human.
Including eating and survivng off of other living things.

Posted by Abhaya (here)
We don't need to eat meat to survive any more.... Millions of people have lived full healthy lives as vegetarians. It is a choice now. So what kind of civilization do we want to be. Because in my mind it seems like one that slaughters and kills animals to eat and survive off of is one akin to a reptilian and frankly evil race.

Now I can say with certainty that hundreds of millions of people have eaten meat and lived long healthy lives as a result.

The debate about meat eating vs vegetarianism is really not the important issue. The issue is that WE allow the torture and abuse of sentient beings in the name of food. I don't see how eating the meat of abused and tortured beings can be totally healthy. It may make you materially stronger, but I wonder about the effects it may play on your more subtle bodies. We are what we eat.

So if there are farms around that allow animals to live happy lives and be killed without prolonged torture, that would be a big improvement. But there is something still disconcerting that we must kill to live.

[DNA]

Posted by noramaccoby (here)

The debate about meat eating vs vegetarianism is really not the important issue. The issue is that WE allow the torture and abuse of sentient beings in the name of food. I don't see how eating the meat of abused and tortured beings can be totally healthy. It may make you materially stronger, but I wonder about the effects it may play on your more subtle bodies. We are what we eat.

I think folks can be conscientious about their food/meat.
We have choices as consumers.

Posted by noramaccoby (here)
So if there are farms around that allow animals to live happy lives and be killed without prolonged torture, that would be a big improvement. But there is something still disconcerting that we must kill to live.

These farms do exist and offer animals at a price that is not too much greater than what the horror factories churn out.

I have an interesting question for you in terms of

thinking how disconcerting it is that we must kill

.

If folks are to live a strict vegetarian diet the result would be this.

The use of land to create vegtables, produce and grains demands the systematic erradication of every single animal and ecosystem that formally existed on it.

The greater the population of the human race the greater the need for this use of the land.

I grew up in an area where there was a huge tract of undevoloped land with ponds, streams and every kind of critter you could think of.
An agriculture project came in and filled in the ponds and laid dirt over the stream and burried it.
ALL the trees came down and ALL the critters died.

If the world continues in the vien, as the population approaches 10,15 and maybe 20 billion there won't be much land left for animals.

And as crazy as it sounds, the only places animals will have to live will be on farms and zoos.

If those farms are of the contientious variety then atleast the animals can have some type of life on this planet.

[sheme]

I read the Bible one day- "thou shalt not eat flesh with blood in it" these words screamed out at me, I had the knowledge, flesh of the fruits of the Mother Earth -some of her fruit has blood in it- from the beast! The remainder of her fruit comes from the tree. I chose from that day forth to leave the flesh of the Earth with blood in it, instead I choose the bloodless flesh of the fruit of the tree.

There is no wrong or right you will eat what your individual vibration resonates with.
No guilt- blessings from the mother Earth.

[Abhaya]

Posted by DNA (here)

Posted by Abhaya (here)
Please note my comment below this post. The fact is, wether we evolved from chimps or not is really irrelevant.

I do not think our evolution in this conversation is irrelevent.

Look, I commend you on your values and I envy your passion on the subject.

I just do not agree with them.

I do not think being a vegetarian makes you any more spiritual than a meat eater.
This is just my belief. Just as you have yours.
Now, I can debate the merits of the situation with you, but I certainly can't share your enthusiasm nor do I want to dampen yours.
I will simply state this, that for seven years I practiced being a vegetarian and when I ended this practice I felt physically and mentally stronger.

Metaphysically speaking, I believe we are spiritual beings, but I believe we are spiritual beings who chose to experience all the different facets of humanity, and I do not think evolving into a transcendental entity is the goal of incarnation, I believe the goal of incarnation is to experience the full spectrum of being human.
Including eating and survivng off of other living things.

Posted by Abhaya (here)
We don't need to eat meat to survive any more.... Millions of people have lived full healthy lives as vegetarians. It is a choice now. So what kind of civilization do we want to be. Because in my mind it seems like one that slaughters and kills animals to eat and survive off of is one akin to a reptilian and frankly evil race.

Now how do you know the reptillians are evil?
That is being a tad bit ethnocentric don't you think?
Stating things like millions of people have lived full healthy lives isn't really something that can be proven.

For the vast duration of humanity starvation has been a constant danger.
As such the choice to be a vegetarian has only been relatively a recent practice for the large part of the human population.

Now I can say with certainty that hundreds of millions of people have eaten meat and lived long healthy lives as a result.

Again your main stream historical view that we are just emerging from a cave man survival of the fittest existence is not such a definite fact at you presume. One could argue that there have been intelligent civilizations like Atlantis rising and falling for eons.

So you are saying that it is not a fact that millions of people have lived healthy vegetarian lives. Even though almost half of the 2nd largest country in the world is complete vegetarian in India. And you say that while that cant be proven, you however can say with 100% certainly that lots of people have lived healthy lives while eating meat. Actually I might challenge that. I think it might be accurate to say that anyone who eats a meat heavy diet especially red meat for a life time will almost definitely suffer health problems.

Also no reptilian racism intended. There might be some friendly lettuce eating iguanatiods out there. They are probably cool . I'm referring to the theoretical reptile races who may slaughter innocent creatures in huge death concentration camps and then partake in eating their flesh. With a complete lack of empathy. Oh wait maybe they can only digest meat? So I guess we would be worse then this theoretical race........

[Prodigal Son]

The simple fact of the matter is, we are not even close to being fully evolved as humans. In Gnostic Kabbalah we are considered mere embryos. Like an acorn has all the potential to become an oak tree, we have the seed within us to be Gods.

The Demiurge on the other hand, is not really a God... he's a demon, who created this world for everything to eat each other and to live in fear. We humans were put here to fix that, eventually.

That being said, my intuition tells me that Gods do not eat other living things, period, but we are not Gods yet. I commend everyone who does not eat meat. Personally I have pretty much all but given up beef, and I have found that a good Portobello mushroom burger is every bit as delicious if not more so.

If this is about animals suffering, plants can feel pain too...

http://www.smithsonianchannel.com/sc...espond-to-pain

...so, where do we draw the line?

As previously mentioned, we can do a lot better job of killing animals more humanely. And as Roman said, I do indeed believe there is a conspiracy to keep people eating lots of meat. The reptilians in charge of this planet simply love this. Their God is the ever-wonderful tyrant Jehovah who just loves blood sacrifice, and the smell of burnt flesh. Blood contains the essence of the soul, the life-force, and it is sacred to that dillweed, because he wants it all for himself. Now you know why JW's sacrifice their children to this bloodthirsty God by not giving their children blood transfusions. It also explains why the OT tyrant needed the blood sacrifice of a "perfect" man to forgive the sins of the world... a demented twisting of how it really works.

If this is about evolving as humans, every spiritual teaching I have encountered says that transmuting the semen instead of ejaculating is the way to raise the kundalini... so who here is prepared to do that?

I think this is a balanced viewpoint, from one of my favorite Gnostics, Samael Aun Weor...

http://gnosticteachings.org/books-by...urishment.html

The majority of people believe that food without meat is incomplete. Nothing is more erroneous because science has demonstrated that nutrition obtained from vegetables has a greater sustaining power.

All animals carry within the poisons of putrefaction. The venous blood is full of carbonic acid and other noxious substances. These harmful and repugnant substances are found everywhere in meat and when we eat these foods we fill our bodies with these toxins.

Abundant proofs exist which demonstrate that a carnivorous diet stimulates ferocity. Let us observe the ferocity of the beasts of prey and the cruelty of the cannibals, and compare them with the prodigious strength and docility of cattle, of the elephant, of the horse.

However, let us not jump to the conclusion that everyone should give up eating meat once and for all and dedicate themselves to vegetarian eating. It would be crazy for a person to change his ordinary diet which he has been using for years and which is nourishing him adequately. To eliminate meat from the ordinary diet of the people accustomed to it would completely undermine their health. The only sure way to proceed is by first experimenting and studying things. [Learn more about his teachings regarding vegetarianism here.]

You should be very careful with your nutrition. We do not ask you to give up meat once and for all but we do warn you that meat, when consumed in large quantities (for example, everyday), are like poison for the body. Dr. Arnold Krumm-Heller, Professor of Medicine of the University of Berlin and great Gnostic doctor, sustained that man should consume twenty percent of his food as meat.

We have verified that some foods such as wheat, eggs, avocados, etc. can substitute meat. Cereals, in general, are of great nutritive value. The protein of cow milk is marvelous. Milk from soybeans is very nutritious and its chemical composition is similar to that of cow milk.

Foods should be used in a balanced manner so as to obtain the best nutrition. Avoid eating white bread. White flour is harmful and does not contain any nourishment. Eat black bread, plantains, and corn flour instead of white bread and white flour. Eat many vegetables; remember that vegetables are fountains of great nourishment. Vitamins are found in vegetables.

May peace be with you!

Samael Aun Weor

[Abhaya]

Also I might point out that we are clear cutting rainforest by the millions of acres so that we can plant grain and grass for cows who we then eat at a 90% energy loss when we consume them. So if we have enough land currently to produce enough food to feed us and all these cows factoring in the 90% food energy loss that occurs when we choose to eat meat. How are we not going to be able to feed everyone when we stop mass producing cows and eat direct from the same land and get 100% of the food energy.

[Abhaya]

Also to argue with any passion for the killing of animals whether in factory farms or if you are slitting the throat your self is frankly sick. At the same time the taste buds are a strong attachment. That being said don't let the taste buds hold the reigns that is your being. When the taste buds feel threatened that they may be deprived of a pleasure they will try to control and bend the intellect to rationalize all kinds of far out stuff. The intellect should be leading these lesser functions not vice versa.

[DNA]

Posted by Abhaya (here)
Again your main stream historical view that we are just emerging from a cave man survival of the fittest existence is not such a definite fact at you presume. One could argue that there have been intelligent civilizations like Atlantis rising and falling for eons.

Look, I'm not trying to argue, if anything I'm offering an oppurtunity for folks to debate the issue with someone who doesn't resort to name calling.

Atleast not yet, LOL



Okay Atlantis. I can go down that road, but it doesn't detract from any of my evolutionary statements.
According to the current thought Atlantis went under like what? 12,000 years ago? Maybe 10,000.
That's a drop in the bucket as far as time is concerned.
If Sitchen's Annunaki story is real, then the hybridization of homoerectus with alien DNA took place like 250,000 to 300,000 years ago.

In so far as off shoots to what main stream archeology states, how about the Giants found all over North America?
The Native Americans stated these guys were total carnivoires and in fact hunted people and ate them.

So I'm just stating, don't be so quick to think your alternative view to archeology is going to necessarily vindicate vegetarianism as being practiced by benevolant advanced beings, from what I've seen the ancient humans and aliens on this world have not proven them selves to be ethically superior to modern humans.
As we can see now, technological advancement does not necessarily equate ethical advancement.

Posted by Abhaya (here)
So you are saying that it is not a fact that millions of people have lived healthy vegetarian lives. Even though almost half of the 2nd largest country in the world is complete vegetarian in India. And you say that while that cant be proven, you however can say with 100% certainly that lots of pele have lived healthy lives while eating meat. Actually I might challenge that. I think it might be accurate to say that anyone who eats a meat heavy diet especially red meat for a life time will almost definitely suffer health problems.

I'm reading an article that states that 20% of India is undernourished and that this is due to low protien quality.

India ranks ahead of Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Nepal and Bangladesh in food availability but lack of a diverse diet and low protein quality constrain its score in quality and safety, placing the country third in the region, the index said.

found HERE

[Camilo]

Good thread. I really believe everybody is right up to a point, and if we are to evolve out of our present stage, we really need to find a balanced way to nurture our physical bodies without the need to kill other species in the process.

Perhaps a possible solution is what was recently discussed from the scientific point of view of possible making meat for human consumption, made from stem cells.

[DNA]

Posted by Camilo (here)
Good thread. I really believe everybody is right up to a point, and if we are to evolve out of our present stage, we really need to find a balanced way to nurture our physical bodies without the need to kill other species in the process.

Perhaps a possible solution is what was recently discussed from the scientific point of view of possible making meat for human consumption, made from stem cells.

I honestly think the best alternative for eating meat would be insects.
I haven't tried it yet, but I would be open to the experience.

[Camilo]

Posted by DNA (here)

Posted by Camilo (here)
Good thread. I really believe everybody is right up to a point, and if we are to evolve out of our present stage, we really need to find a balanced way to nurture our physical bodies without the need to kill other species in the process.

Perhaps a possible solution is what was recently discussed from the scientific point of view of possible making meat for human consumption, made from stem cells.

I honestly think the best alternative for eating meat would be insects.
I haven't tried it yet, but I would be open to the experience.

It's a good choice, in Colombia, as well as in many other countries around the world, we eat certain kind of ants, which are very tasty and full of protein and other nutrients, without the side effects of red meat.

http://www.mycitycuisine.org/.../Hor...santandereanas

Hormigas culonas or santandereanas / Hormiga means Ant

The hormiga culona has been eaten for hundreds of years, as a tradition inherited from pre-Columbian cultures as the Guanes. The ants are harvested for about nine weeks every year, at the time of the rainy season, which is when they make the nuptial flight. The harvesting is done by local peasants who are often wounded by the ants, since the ants have strong mandibles. Only the queens are collected, because the other ants are not edible. The legs and wings are removed; after that, the ants are soaked in salty water and roasted in ceramic pans. There are local beliefs that the ants are aphrodisiacs.

[Abhaya]

"Okay Atlantis. I can go down that road, but it doesn't detract from any of my evolutionary statements.
According to the current thought Atlantis went under like what? 12,000 years ago? Maybe 10,000.
That's a drop in the bucket as far as time is concerned.
If Sitchen's Annunaki story is real, then the hybridization of homoerectus with alien DNA took place like 250,000 to 300,000 years ago.

In so far as off shoots to what main stream archeology states, how about the Giants found all over North America?
The Native Americans stated these guys were total carnivoires and in fact hunted people and ate them.

So I'm just stating, don't be so quick to think your alternative view to archeology is going to necessarily vindicate vegetarianism as being practiced by benevolant advanced beings, from what I've seen the ancient humans and aliens on this world have not proven them selves to be ethically superior to modern humans.
As we can see now, technological advancement does not necessarily equate ethical advancement."

Both these points you bring up do nothing to justify meat eating. Again while the history of the human race is certainly up for debate the fact which nullifies it completely is that currently we do not need to eat meat to survive. So it doesn't matter what we did in the past. It does not provide a means of excuse at this present time.

Second I would have thought the 20% figure might have been even higher. India is a poverty stricken country...... People lack the means to get a varied complete diet by vegetarian or other means I am sure....

Still dosen't give you the excuse to eat a hamburger sorry

[Abhaya]

I should add while it may be hard to believe I bare no ill will or hostility towards any individual meat eater. However I always attack these debates with passion and force as the subject is one that I am, well, passionate about. And the culture is what I am venting at really.

[EC1000]

[QUOTE=Prodigal Son;715720]If this is about animals suffering, plants can feel pain too...

[QUOTE]

exactly-everything is alive. One time i had a realization that on an apple tree (for example), the tree is like the mommy and the apples are the little babies and someone comes along and rips the baby from its mother and eats it while it still lives. Graphic analogy I know but everything really is alive and I don't think we can say for sure what is being felt by things on all levels and planes of existence, can we? Does the human race really have any understanding of such things? ..At all???

I'm not going to say what I am-veggie or carno. But I have met some pretty mean "spiritually unevolved" vegans in my life time and also some very peaceful and loving folks who eat meat. I don't know if what we eat makes a difference along those lines but I don't know much. But I do know that avoiding certain foods for a period of time or going on fruit/ veggie fasts can change the way I feel within myself and how I preceive things.

[superconsciousness]

[QUOTE=EC1000;715770][QUOTE=Prodigal Son;715720]If this is about animals suffering, plants can feel pain too...

exactly-everything is alive. One time i had a realization that on an apple tree (for example), the tree is like the mommy and the apples are the little babies and someone comes along and rips the baby from its mother and eats it while it still lives. Graphic analogy I know but everything really is alive and I don't think we can say for sure what is being felt by things on all levels and planes of existence, can we? Does the human race really have any understanding of such things? ..At all???

I'm not going to say what I am-veggie or carno. But I have met some pretty mean "spiritually unevolved" vegans in my life time and also some very peaceful and loving folks who eat meat. I don't know if what we eat makes a difference along those lines but I don't know much. But I do know that avoiding certain foods for a period of time or going on fruit/ veggie fasts can change the way I feel within myself and how I preceive things.

I disagree on the first point. We have many apple trees and when they produce fruit, they become incredibly loaded down and heavy with their bounty. It is not hurting the tree at all to pick them, and when the apples are eaten, there is a shared reciprocity with the tree spirit that is powerful and beautiful. Apple tree spirits are incredibly generous and lyrical...

On the point about meat eaters being "less or more spiritual"...this is not an argument I find interesting. I have been vegan, vege, meat eating, selective, etc...all have pros and cons. But at the end of the day - there's this horror show going on outside the cities and it's outrageous slaughter and suffering...and as someone else wrote, the clear cutting of forests for further factory meat production. Complete desensitization of life forms that do not deserve to suffer and methods of food production that are not sustainable. THIS IS NOT AN EITHER OR - it's about PROCESS and how we CHOOSE to live.

[Abhaya]

[QUOTE=EC1000;715770][QUOTE=Prodigal Son;715720]If this is about animals suffering, plants can feel pain too...

exactly-everything is alive. One time i had a realization that on an apple tree (for example), the tree is like the mommy and the apples are the little babies and someone comes along and rips the baby from its mother and eats it while it still lives. Graphic analogy I know but everything really is alive and I don't think we can say for sure what is being felt by things on all levels and planes of existence, can we? Does the human race really have any understanding of such things? ..At all???

I'm not going to say what I am-veggie or carno. But I have met some pretty mean "spiritually unevolved" vegans in my life time and also some very peaceful and loving folks who eat meat. I don't know if what we eat makes a difference along those lines but I don't know much. But I do know that avoiding certain foods for a period of time or going on fruit/ veggie fasts can change the way I feel within myself and how I preceive things.

Yes the fact is there. We need to kill to survive. That is the nature of our current dense reality. However because this is a fact it does not give us liscense to then kill and eat anything and everything we desire. You can't say "well it's the nature of reality that we have to kill so there for I will eat anything I please" by that logic we may as well eat each other.

Also any 5 year old can see intuitively, were they to watch the slaughter of a cow, and the plucking of a carrot from the ground, which of the two invlovles more violence ,pain, suffering and terror. Plants are alive yes but they lack mental facility and thus are completely or at least have a greatly reduced abilty to experiance fear and pain. and thus allow us to kill in a way that doesn't cause as dramatic and cruel a death. The key is to be as least violent, in each individuals circumstances, that we can reasonably be. If we do this we are doing good.

[Abhaya]

Also I might add that I see this kind of chaos theory evoked often by meat eaters. One that says everything is alive and might feel some degree of pain. Therefor It doesn't make a difference what we eat. But this kind of chaos theory logic is simply one put forward to try to minimize and avoid the obvious ethical benefits of vegetarianism and is really not some deep felt passionate stance they feel and live by as a person. It's really just an abstract excuse or attempt at one brought on by the taste buds bending the intellect to their will when threatened with withholding of taste pleasures.