Covert Hostility... the Tone Level... WHAT IT IS

[northstar]

Posted by jiminii (here)

so we are not just talking about gay ... here .. ok?

we are talking about how the covert hostile people bring down a society.

people get sick around these covert hostile people and when you see how they fell for the twisted lies that suppress them they can break from from them

that is all this thread is about

jim

Awesome, Jim.
I'm really glad the thread is about "covert hostile people" and not blatant homophobia because I am happy to hear what you have to say about "covert hostile people" as long as you don't chose GLBT people to sterotype in general.

In this day and age most good, decent and enlightened people find homophobia and gay bashing pretty ugly. We need to judge individuals for their actions, and not stigmatize entire groups of people.

[Jake]

Jim, I am deeply saddened to know that you are so blind. Just because you walk throughout each day with deeply problematic sexual tendencies,,, that doesn't mean that everyone else does to... It would behoove you to look inward and ask yourself why!! You are projecting a reality onto others that is your own. Just because you have "your attention on other people's body parts", and "your thoughts constantly on this idea of sex no matter where you go", doesn't mean that EVERYONE ELSE HAS YOUR SAME PROBLEM!!! It is called PROJECTING!! And you should knock it off. (to put it bluntly) I would be with whoever I fell in love with,,, be it male of female. I am not in a blatantly obvious sexual theta trap!!!

Do you really walk around all day every day and fight your sexual tendencies? Maybe you are gay, and just don't know it.

Being overly political about 'coming out', is something that may or may not happen for a gay person. Leave them alone,,, If it bothers you that much,, you should look inward to find out why.. Maybe you are one too. I am not just making jokes,,, at least once, I knew a friend of mine was gay before he did. Folks tend to lash out against things they don't like about themselves.

I would suggest that you bring this discussion around to a more sane level. Blanket statements about gays will only show folks here your true colors. My instinct is to close this thread. But I think we have an opportunity to expose some blatant ignorance.

Folks, Please do not pile on, or be too harsh on Jim.. Let's try and help...

Love to all,,,
Jake.

[ROMANWKT]

Posted by Jake (here)
Jim, I am deeply saddened to know that you are so blind. Just because you walk throughout each day with deeply problematic sexual tendencies,,, that doesn't mean that everyone else does to... It would behoove you to look inward and ask yourself why!! You are projecting a reality onto others that is your own. Just because you have "your attention on other people's body parts", and "your thoughts constantly on this idea of sex no matter where you go", doesn't mean that EVERYONE ELSE HAS YOUR SAME PROBLEM!!! It is called PROJECTING!! And you should knock it off. (to put it bluntly) I would be with whoever I fell in love with,,, be it male of female. I am not in a blatantly obvious sexual theta trap!!!

Do you really walk around all day every day and fight your sexual tendencies? Maybe you are gay, and just don't know it.

Being overly political about 'coming out', is something that may or may not happen for a gay person. Leave them alone,,, If it bothers you that much,, you should look inward to find out why.. Maybe you are one too. I am not just making jokes,,, at least once, I knew a friend of mine was gay before he did. Folks tend to lash out against things they don't like about themselves.

I would suggest that you bring this discussion around to a more sane level. Blanket statements about gays will only show folks here your true colors. My instinct is to close this thread. But I think we have an opportunity to expose some blatant ignorance.

Folks, Please do not pile on, or be too harsh on Jim.. Let's try and help...

Love to all,,,
Jake.

The most powerful emotion is sexual Jake, that many suffer with my friend, yes we can just ignore it as everything else, so be it.

Warmest regards Jake

roman

[Delight]

Posted by jiminii (here)
if you want to know where the data is .. Read LRH's Science of Survival and it tells you how to spot tone levels so you don't get messed by lower tone people.

I have never weighed in on any scientology stuff but I I feel that a LRH source is contaminated by real perversion. It uses the legal status of religion to control and subjugate. Nothing clear and whole manifests from an energy of distortion.

My experience with Scientology is not direct. Two close friends who have been married 25 years took one course BEFORE they were married. Even now they are hounded EVERY day by Scientology marketers who phone them several times a day and will NOT stop because they can get away with this constant harassment.

In fact, the more that my friends have requested to be left alone, the MORE the harassment. That is hostility.

If one wants, one can just investigate the treatment of its members to see the fruits of this belief system. In this video the basic energy of insanity (and the evil results) from LRH and the organization he created is apparent

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=bh_yY0-gLzo

[Bill Ryan]

-------

The topic of this thread is valuable. COVERT HOSTILITY needs to be understood.

Here it is:



But this has nothing to do with homosexuality.

This was recently published on the net. It's hilarious. On her radio show, 'Dr. Laura' [Schlesinger] had said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. Enjoy the following open letter (written by an American teacher):

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I'm confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your adoring fan,

James M. Kauffman,

Ed.D. Professor Emeritus,
Dept. Of Curriculum, Instruction, and Special Education University of Virginia

P.S. (It would be a damn shame if we couldn't own a Canadian.)

[Swan]

It appears to me that homosexuality is a major button pusher for you Jim.

I have a couple of issues that are big button pushers to me...one being distant fathers. This is such a hot topic for me that I am at this point not willing to listen to anybody who suggests that distant fathers can be good parents. But I do realize that I am overly emotional in this issue, so I try and keep my mouth shut until such a time when I feel more balanced about the subject. I think there is often alot of pain behind what pushes ones buttons.

I don´t mean to be condescending, just trying to say that I am sure we all have our issues where pain takes over.

I have learnt a lot from you.

[Jake]

Posted by ROMANWKT (here)

Posted by Jake (here)
Jim, I am deeply saddened to know that you are so blind. Just because you walk throughout each day with deeply problematic sexual tendencies,,, that doesn't mean that everyone else does to... It would behoove you to look inward and ask yourself why!! You are projecting a reality onto others that is your own. Just because you have "your attention on other people's body parts", and "your thoughts constantly on this idea of sex no matter where you go", doesn't mean that EVERYONE ELSE HAS YOUR SAME PROBLEM!!! It is called PROJECTING!! And you should knock it off. (to put it bluntly) I would be with whoever I fell in love with,,, be it male of female. I am not in a blatantly obvious sexual theta trap!!!

Do you really walk around all day every day and fight your sexual tendencies? Maybe you are gay, and just don't know it.

Being overly political about 'coming out', is something that may or may not happen for a gay person. Leave them alone,,, If it bothers you that much,, you should look inward to find out why.. Maybe you are one too. I am not just making jokes,,, at least once, I knew a friend of mine was gay before he did. Folks tend to lash out against things they don't like about themselves.

I would suggest that you bring this discussion around to a more sane level. Blanket statements about gays will only show folks here your true colors. My instinct is to close this thread. But I think we have an opportunity to expose some blatant ignorance.

Folks, Please do not pile on, or be too harsh on Jim.. Let's try and help...

Love to all,,,
Jake.

The most powerful emotion is sexual Jake, that many suffer with my friend, yes we can just ignore it as everything else, so be it.

Warmest regards Jake

roman

I would say the most powerful emotion is Love,,, Maybe Fear. When a powerful sexual nature, degrades into hatred, or even dislike, of entire groups of people,, then it is a problem. Not a problem with others, but a problem in and of itself. Even 'covert hostile people' may not be as covertly hostile as one would think. Again,,, projecting..

I want to make a point. This discussion was started with ugly words to an entire group of amazing people. Do you think it doesn't go unnoticed?

If there is something more intelligent that was going to be discussed, perhaps the insults to Gays should have been avoided. Frankly, I don't care what Jim thinks about gays,,, I know he is wrong. I will not allow this type of prejudice to go on without exposing it. If that is disruptive, then I apologize.

JIm,, if you want to make a point, you will have to do it without trashing Gays..

Jake.

[gripreaper]

It's not complicated. In the refracted light spectrum, there are differentiated tones and colors, the rainbow bridge. If a soul chooses to excavate the lower and slower frequencies during an incarnation, to experience the extreme polarized state of "red" for example, either on the positive side or the negative side of the spectrum, and this experience manifests in ways which someone else looks at their choices and judges them to be below a certain threshold, and classifies their experience as "aberrant", based on some scale ( in this case, LRH scale), this does not make it so.

"Covert" is defined as hidden, while "hostility" is an expression of an energy signature in a projected fashion towards another, an expression which is not in harmony with the soul towards which the expression is being emanated. Thus, it is hostile.

We can choose to engage this energy, or not. We can also choose to objectify it, create symbolic archetypes, label them, design scales in linear fashion, and place ourselves on the scale above or below those which we are judging.

Or, we can empathically, with understanding, let those who choose to excavate the lower astral energies of the light spectrum, experience and manifest as they choose and see fit, without judgment.

[Lettherebelight]

I, too, do not accept the theories of Scientology as a completely clear picture of reality...however I do not think those theories were presented without a sincere quest for Truth. I do recognise that they have helped many people gain a level of control over their personal lives and thus benefit on various levels.

The op here, however garbled, seems (I accept that I could be wrong) to be well intended rather than confrontational. I feel that 'covert violence' could equate with the term 'passive aggression'? The clever, manipulative behaviour that some will use on those of weaker strength of mind and purpose, as in sociopathic behaviour.

But also, would you say that all nurses are on that lower level of sympathy? I know some very fiesty nurses.

[ROMANWKT]

Posted by gripreaper (here)
It's not complicated. In the refracted light spectrum, there are differentiated tones and colors, the rainbow bridge. If a soul chooses to excavate the lower and slower frequencies during an incarnation, to experience the extreme polarized state of "red" for example, either on the positive side or the negative side of the spectrum, and this experience manifests in ways which someone else looks at their choices and judges them to be below a certain threshold, and classifies their experience as "aberrant", based on some scale ( in this case, LRH scale), this does not make it so.

"Covert" is defined as hidden, while "hostility" is an expression of an energy signature in a projected fashion towards another, an expression which is not in harmony with the soul towards which the expression is being emanated. Thus, it is hostile.

We can choose to engage this energy, or not. We can also choose to objectify it, create symbolic archetypes, label them, design scales in linear fashion, and place ourselves on the scale above or below those which we are judging.

Or, we can empathically, with understanding, let those who choose to excavate the lower astral energies of the light spectrum, experience and manifest as they choose and see fit, without judgment.

I do not engage in the lower frequencies, No, that was one of my experiences.

Regards

roman

[jiminii]

there are a lot of variables ... I didn't think it when I picked gay ... or know what reaction I would get ...

I should have said promiscuity that would cover the covert part of both gay and heter ,.. would be more clear

so sorry about this

jim

[Swan]

Yep, that is more clear

[northstar]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
P.S. (It would be a damn shame if we couldn't own a Canadian.)

I fully comprehend that sentiment Bill. We Canadians are world renowned for our physical prowess (gained from intensive ice hockey training), our sense of humor (we are the #1 world exporter of comedians), our funny accents (eh?) and our unfailing politeness. They love us to pieces when we travel in other countries. (I have heard it whispered that many Americans take "Canadian accent" training so as to be able to pass for Canadian while traveling in other countries, eh).

But as far as owning a Canadian?
Nah, I don't think so, but if anyone is really eager to own a Canadian, I can recommend a good place to buy a loyal Newfoundland Duck Toller - a real Canadian dog.

PS - I guarantee there is no covert hostility in this message. Honest.

[ulli]

I have had so many gay friends throughout my life, and my best friend who was gay just recently died, and I have been mourning his death more than a close relative who died a few days later.
But when it comes to truth I don't identify nor invest my loyalties to the point that I would slip into duality, nor call someone names (like moronic) as someone just did here earlier.

If I were identified with my gay friends I would feel the need to defend them, but what would that serve?
None of us know for sure if a permissive society is in our best interest, or not. I do know that my younger gay friends had fun lives but I have yet to meet one happy "OLD" queen.

What Jim says here must be looked at within the context of belief systems.
I did not find his post offensive, although I can see that it would be challenging,
and not only gay people but anyone who is identified with the general ideas of PC...
political correctness....which has become the religion of today.

Jim is coming from a viewpoint of a very high spirituality, eternity....and some of his ideas are strange, yet like all viewpoints, I find them interesting.
What he says fits into most religious teachings, although none of the ones I have studied give an explanation as detailed as he does.

After I left the Bahai community I found myself on forums together with other dissidents, and all of them had left for different reasons., some because the international leadership is a "men only" institution, some like myself felt that the original teachings had been distorted.
But the most vocal group had left because the Bahai Faith condemns homosexuality.
Those arguments had been going on for years.
Meanwhile the holy writings say very little about it that is specific..and Baha'u'llah Himself really only condemned sex slavery, the owning of young boys, as is still being practiced in many middle eastern countries. He never once mentioned the love between members of the same sex.
But later interpretations state that homosexuals should seek counseling, and try to become straight or live celibate lives.
That two people of the same sex could love one another, but to allow it to find expression in sexual acts should be avoided.
Bahais believe that the second chakra is to be controlled, and used more consciously, in appropriate settings, like marriage.
I don't really know what is right or wrong here, but whatever forum Im on, Im finding that topic is dividing humanity in a terrible way.
When seen from the perspective of experiencing life on earth to the fullest, then of course all experiences should be allowed, provided they don't coerce those not interested.
But when one's belief is like Jim's, that this is a prison planet, and our only goal is to get out of jail, then a completely new picture emerges. If he really believes this then one ought to consider that he only wants to help his fellow man, and means well.
But one is still free to stay with one's own belief. Jim isn't going to come and beat you up if you don't buy his story.

There are many people now who feel that they don't belong here, on this planet, and to whom all physical sensations are dubious.
People who even don't want to enjoy in the pleasures of eating and drinking either...not indulge the body in any way.

Jim is only sharing what he believes, which I think is ok, and no one should be offended.
Avalon has all sorts of beliefs offered, and far more dogmatic than he does.
But this gay issue is the hottest of them all, and his provocative post is showing up where people's buttons are.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Posted by jiminii (here)
there are a lot of variables ... I didn't think it when I picked gay ... or know what reaction I would get ...

I should have said promiscuity that would cover the covert part of both gay and heter ,.. would be more clear

so sorry about this

jim

You better extent this message to Billiji Jim, you hurt him big time.

[jiminii]

Posted by gripreaper (here)

Posted by ROMANWKT (here)
Jim they haven't the faintest what you are talking about, they and I mean you here on this website really are day dreamers, you have a long way to go as yet to really understand. keep on dreaming simple minds

roman

So Roman, why would you objectify the entire Avalon community as "simple minds having a long way to go" and place yourself and Jim above the rest of us?

Did someone put something in the water this morning?

I came right out of source too like Inelia from the future and that is why no auditor of any level in scientology could find any past lives from me. but their meter registers there is something there. but they never looked into the future.

so coming here without an operations manual makes it a bit difficult to get all the wordings right so I look at actual life situations to get some kind of data from it.

I read stuff too and compare it with life situations. So I did make a mention of gay as covert hostile ... but also the victims of covert hostile people are not just gay. It is just one reference and I am sure there are a lot of different types of entities that are also covert hostile

I used gay as a reference because it is more easy to see the nature of covert hostile people if I show some of the characteristics that are so obvious.

but I am not trying to hit GAY as an ONLY. I just used some obvious characteristics of covert hostility using a covert hostile gay as an example.

there are covert hostile bankers and Heter too in the promiscuity band ...

so I am sorry if I offended anyone

jim

[Jake]

Jim.. You are one of mee favorites. I will stop faulting you for your views. I do not see people as gay or not-gay... Just people. We have much bigger fish to fry,,, methinks. I do see the value of your point about 'covert hostility'. Thank you for bringing it to the table, BTW. When my sister 'came out',, I was annoyed about her need to be political about it too. Just be who you are,, Period. She was sure to point out that if the world was not so hostile to gays,, then perhaps they wouldn't come out so political. Whatever,,, I don't care either way,,, I love people...

And I love you too,, Jim...

For what its worth..
Jake.

[DarMar]

Posted by Swan (here)
It appears to me that homosexuality is a major button pusher for you Jim.

As i see it, guy simply stated one very big important thing and it is mostly actual as it is. And besides that mentioned homosexuals...
All except few persons actually picked that up, and rest of people turned important info into homosexual conversation.
Yes you will have bigger heart if you love homosexuals, that will make us to go easier to sleep.
And we must urge to stress equality while they have urge to stress differentiality. Isn't that a mess?
Isn't pretty evidental and factual (by this thread also) that jim is very rigth?
I'd say it's most deffinetly not him having problems with homosexuality, but pretty way arround.

Reading through Jim's thread i see he understands alot.
With one minor correction which many may have hard to believe but percentage of population with or without soul is much more than one could expect.
It is 99% w/o soul and 1% with soul and from that 1% only 1% of them is actually acting while others asleep.

Also very important fact is that human slaves are mostly controlled with sexual contents, making dogmatic case out of it.
we can start at womans makeup and end at man's underwear, it's all same preconditioning and building walls arround person.

also we most deffinetly SHOULD talk about LGBT, but as i see for now it is merely impossible.
people gets long teeth from only mentioning it. And most have nerves to say it isn't form of controll?

if it isn't self evident and well documented atleast here than i dunno what is...

[chocolate]

For me this thread is an example of "hostility" tendencies in all of us. Each one understood it from his/hers own perspective. Now I understand the "confront" to overcome strategy. Thank you.

I had a conversation today which was 100% an example of hostility in people. I did not get hooked in it the way it was intended. But I did see all of the involved in a new light.

I don't know where I come from, for I detect no hostility in me. Jim's words spoke to me about something far more complex than being a 'gay' is. But I tend to sense more than the obvious, so I guess it is a matter of stand point. That is just me.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

DarMar, we wrote in sync. That is good, so I am not alone.

[Kano]

Posted by jiminii (here)

I came right out of source too like Inelia from the future and that is why no auditor of any level in scientology could find any past lives from me. but their meter registers there is something there. but they never looked into the future.

jim

Absolute rubbish.