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Thread: Covert Hostility... the Tone Level... WHAT IT IS

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    United States Avalon Member Mark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covert Hostility... the Tone Level... WHAT IT IS

    Well, I think I'll add my two cents here since the reaction to the example used in the OP has died down.

    It is a very important topic. So important because it is so pervasive and so oppressive at the level of energy vampirism. Covert hostility is aggression, pure and simple. Fear and anger projected as reasonableness, with just an edge of psychic intrusion that either produces an immediate reactionary response of self-defense or capitulation, whereby one responds also in a covert manner or one accepts the aggression and internalizes it. They then are giving the covertly aggressive person an in-road and, basically, allowing them to stick their psychic straw into your effervescent reservoir of energy, thereafter withdrawing at will, either sipping leisurely or going all in and withdrawing with ever-increasingly hostile and overtly aggressive communications tactics.

    I understand why Jim used the example he used, everyone has witnessed it. To use another example that is closer to my experience, some black people in corporate America become covertly hostile in their dealings with their peers and others. Because to be overtly hostile is to risk losing a job. Fear, anger. Fear of losing a job, anger at being passed over for promotions, for seeing people they've trained move higher than them, for dealing with the day in and day out indignities of being Other in the majority culture.

    That hostility is seen in fast food restaurants, where people who need their job but don't want to be there are a constant source of aggression that put you immediately either on the defensive or offensive when encountering them, depending again upon your own personal inclinations. And, again, this is all energy transfer, energy vampirism, it is putting you at a disadvantage whenever you encounter it if you make the choices already pointed out in response to it. The other choice to make in regards to it? Well, that will bring up shades of self-control (mental and emotional) and enlightenment (meditation, gnosis) pathways.

    It's seen in retail stores and elsewhere, it is so pervasive in our lives and in this world that this is, indeed, a very important topic to discuss. These characteristics can be applied to many different populations and sub-populations, cultures and sub-cultures, because it is so very widespread. Another level of energy drain for the Archontic system.

    Just shortly, I will have to concur with Jimini and 1 other (DarMar, I think) about the soulless folk. Not everybody walking around in a body is what they seem to be.

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    Canada Avalon Member northstar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covert Hostility... the Tone Level... WHAT IT IS

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    -------

    More on what Covert Hostility is about:

    Every con man (or woman!), everyone who's ever tricked you or betrayed you after you trusted them, most people who seem to be very pleasant but 'aren't quite right' and 'you can't put your finger on it', every agenda-driven friendly manipulator -- they're all COVERTLY HOSTILE.

    Like a snake. They slither silently in the grass, and you can't see them coming till they bite you. With an angry Momma Bear, you've got a better chance, because you can run, or yell at them as loudly as possible until they run.

    People are like that too. When someone's openly ('overtly') angry, you know exactly where you stand. They're actually doing you a favor. Everything is in the open.

    But someone in COVERT hostility is too afraid to be angry, and too angry to be afraid. They're caught between the two. So they hide.

    Because they hide, and pretend to be something they're not (like supportive, kind and friendly), they can be very sneaky and hard to detect. And very damaging indeed.

    Learning how to spot them is as useful as learning to pick out where the snakes are, out in the wilderness, before they crawl into your tent (or, in human terms, crawl into your life).

    This is what this thread is about, or should be about. Learning how to spot the silent predators, knowing when to kick someone out of your life (or your business) before they steal everything you have.

    This description sounds a lot like some extremely passive-aggressive people I have known- a very "difficult" personality to deal with, in my opinion. I worked with a passive-aggressive man for 10 years and he did a number of things to destroy my career.

    Remarkably, I was unaware of this for years. I simply assumed that all of the problems I was encountering were my own fault. Even after some evidence of his actions began to leak out, however, I could not comprehend the full extent of his backstabbing, lying and attacks. Looking back, I think it is because my mind simply doesn't work that way! I generally assume that people are good so I gave him the benefit of the doubt for years when he was actively damaging my career and making my working life miserable behind my back.

    After he retired my job got immediately better. I felt better, I was happier and more productive. I had more energy, more drive, I liked my job again. I really didn't fully "connect the dots" until I realized that the last time I felt that way in my job was before he started working there!

    Then the lightbulb went on and the dots connected into a big ole' arrow pointing to him! It shocked me but all the pieces fell into place. He certainly had been a poisonous snake in the grass all those years. Yuck!

    Is this what you mean, Bill?
    Last edited by northstar; 25th August 2013 at 03:05.
    The 'rebellion' of the Mind, having the Mind run the show, is the Luciferian rebellion of wanting to leave Love-Christ-Heart behind and create a universe without the 'pesky feeling of the heart' holding it back
    ~ Tobias Lars

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covert Hostility... the Tone Level... WHAT IT IS

    Quote Posted by northstar (here)

    Is this what you mean, Bill?
    Yes! Exactly so.

    This is the topic of a thread with this title. And it's a really important one, because if they taught this stuff in school, millions of lives would not be trashed and sucked dry by these people.

    They feed like parasites on good, honest folks whose nature it is to give others the benefit of the doubt, and that's what they count on -- until it's too late.

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)

    [...a quite wonderful post...]
    Rahkyt, you nailed it.

    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 25th August 2013 at 03:00.

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    Default Re: Covert Hostility... the Tone Level... WHAT IT IS

    Bells Bells! I'm learning stuff here. You have just described a friendship I had a couple of years ago!

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    Default Re: Covert Hostility... the Tone Level... WHAT IT IS

    I have tried to follow the train of thought in this screed, Jim, but it hurts my brain.
    Last edited by Fellow Aspirant; 25th August 2013 at 03:21.

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    Avalon Member eaglespirit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covert Hostility... the Tone Level... WHAT IT IS

    I don't usually post on threads like this where there is a situation or multiple situations...unless I'm really called to.
    Let me try to explain this my way the best I may.
    You see, each of us have come here on this planet from a place of knowing, that is...many different places of knowing and at many different degrees. Some having more, some having less, some having, well, minimal or what could be considered almost none, with a handicap that makes it just about impossible to right or correct while here. Some are here not to right or correct anything because of where they're from and what they are made up of...so be it.
    Many of us are here to help those that are in the arenas of more "stuckness" than ourselves if we find our own way to get "unstuck" enough. Some of us have been here many times to do this...others have not. You can figure that one out quickly and understand why I am posting here. We are all in this together separately irregardless.
    We have the opportunity and ability to right more than has ever been righted at this particular time and in this particular place as never before in time or non-time or whatever and what we help right is going to change a whole lot of matters in all of the places everywhere...especially and including those places we are from... and the more we make right, now, the more acceleration will be added to this very positive about to be outcome. The more that is righted here the more we can each go about helping to bring beauty to places beyond our own joyful imaginations as this current "outcome" here on earth culminates.
    So it does not matter really how situations are brought out and by who and where they're from or what degree of knowing or how much time they have had on earth experiencing the particular things unique to this place...just as long as they are brought out to be righted because we can right just about everything that is wrong now because it has become that "unique" of a time here because many, many, many wrongs have accumulated and are now getting squeezed through a wonderful righting bottleneck and it is about to explode out the other side to the higher side...and we are ALL going with it.
    So let's get as many things right as we possibly can while we can.
    I Love You All!

    ...and now I'll go read the rest of the current posts.
    Last edited by eaglespirit; 25th August 2013 at 17:47.

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    Default Re: Covert Hostility... the Tone Level... WHAT IT IS

    Quote Posted by Delight (here)
    Quote Posted by jiminii (here)

    scientology was infiltrated by the cabal. this doesn't make the data untrue. It just makes the managers the same as the bankers who are trying to take over the planet

    jim
    Are you a Scientologist? As I said when I posted, I never knew anything much until recently about Scientology except that celebrities and Hollywood were involved. I once tried to read Dianetics and it was stupid in my opinion. In the last two years, friends have mentioned their daily aggravation (to this date) with this group. They have tried everything and finally now just screen the calls.

    I watched the video I posted above a few months ago and since this thread came up, I have researched a bit more.

    I think the behavior LRH demonstrated totally invalidates his teachings. LRH looks like a lived the life of a big fat hypocrite. He looks like he left a legacy smelling like the worst kind of con. It is easy to be a hypocrite when one is contemptuous. One uses others and unfortunately sincere people are vulnerable with too much trust and trust (which should be a valuable asset in a REAL world) is used against people often.

    It is my sense that hypocrisy is about the lowest level of demonstrated behavior, a low tone. Hypocrisy belongs to the repertoire of belief that it is possible to experience a reality that can be hidden and mostly it is useful as a manipulative tool.

    It seems based on the idea that one can be hidden securely so truth does not matter. Hypocrisy implies a decision that one's behavior is exempted and it is the arena of the one who is certain to be dangerous to those who operate from transparency.

    My experience with the identified "covert hostile" group you have identified is long and broad. From this group, there are some of the most talented, artistic, benevolent, extraordinary humans I ever met. I have never understood why people would need to identify themselves by sexual preference except that maybe this feels better than hiding?

    I have read quite a bit about the Scientology managerial organization WISE (the management branch). I have read the statements of former members. I have read quotes from LRH.

    There is the most odious stuff to read about the consideration LRH had for people. People by his own words to be used a tools. I feel some empathy for the fear and loathing of self that would lead a person into entrapment of such a group.

    By the way, I worked as an RN (nurse) for many years. This is a profession that is based on military rank and file as is Scientology. It is "womaned" by humans who were from infancy trained to be servers and codependent. There are some men who often more quickly rise in the ranks to supervise.

    That quality of sympathy that is so demeaned is a trap. It and the fact that people get addicted to having a "good" job (in the US, MANY MANY MANY legal immigrants are nurses trained in their native countries) keep the subservient in line. It is horrifying to see how we may become debased by our beliefs.

    Yes, modern allopathic medicine is an odious sick system that purports to heal people. It uses people for its own ends. However, IF you happen to land in a hospital bed, I sincerely hope you find a sympathetic nurse.

    What do you make of this?
    Quote
    Hubbard's goal from the beginning was to "clear the planet", in other words, to see that everyone on earth became a clear. Up until the time that this happened, he envisioned a sharp demarcation in status between clears (real people) and pre-clears (deficient people). Only clears, for example, could marry and bear children.2 And if pre-clears did have children, they would most likely be taken away to avoid the "restimulative" affects that parents would have on the child.3

    "Perhaps at some distant date only the unaberrated person will be granted civil rights before law. Perhaps the goal will be reached at some future time when only the unaberrated person can attain to and benefit from citizenship. These are desirable goals."4 Would pre-clears have any rights whatsoever? And what indeed would be the fate of those unfortunates who rejected Hubbard's ideas, or even spoke out against him?

    These questions can be answered to some degree by looking at the organizations that Hubbard built, and the status of people within and without these organizations. Non-Scientologists are referred to by Scientologists normally as "wogs"5 or "raw meat,"6 depending on whether they were being considered generic outsiders or potential members. The judicial system in outside society was referred to as the derogatory "wog law". Outside society was an evil place surreptitiously controlled by psychiatrists, who ran the media and governments. Psychiatry had been attacking dianetics from its inception, claimed Hubbard, "because they feared that as our power increased they would lose their easy appropriations and fail in their plan for a 1984 World."7 It was to be a fight to the finish between the evil outside world and the valiant crew of Hubbardites.

    The goal of a Clear Planet was always the important thing. If someone got in the way, they could be smashed. Hubbard wrote the famous "Fair Game Policy" in 1967 in which he declared that anyone caught disturbing Scientology's mission could be "tricked, sued, or lied to, or destroyed."8 Another process called R2-45 involved making a person "go exterior" (i.e. leave his body) by shooting the person in the head with a .45 pistol. Hubbard did not say to use this process, however, because "its use is frowned upon by society at this time,"9 but there have been some disturbing incidents relating to R2-45.

    Hubbard created a Guardian's Office, whose members were responsible for bulldozing anything or anyone that may stand in the way of Scientology. After the G.O. was disbanded when Mary Sue Hubbard and other G.O. officers were sent to prison for infiltrating federal offices, the Office of Special Affairs took over the G.O.'s duties.

    Within the organization, ethics took on strange meaning. The purpose of ethics was "TO REMOVE COUNTER INTENTIONS FROM THE ENVIRONMENT,"10 which could be interpreted to mean to remove those obstructions to the church's accomplishing its goals. A member stayed in good standing, not by being a good and moral person, but by making sure he was producing for the church - "a staff member can get away with murder so long as his statistic [i.e. work record] is up and can't sneeze without a chop if it's down."11 If the goal of a cleared planet was getting closer, and all nay-sayers and critics were silenced, then all was well in Hubbard's world, regardless of how these were accomplished.

    Hubbard ruled the organization of the church like a dictator with an eye for detail. Every structure and action of every Scientologist was covered by some policy order or writing by Hubbard. These had to be strictly followed. If someone was not producing as much as was expected, he may be sent for a security check on the E-meter (a crude lie-detector) to see if he may be a subversive or suppressive person. If a member seemed to be hindered by critical parents or a spouse, he would be ordered to "disconnect," or cut off communication with, those people seen to be impeding the work of the church. Most outside interests and activities were given up to devote all possible time and energy to the church's goals. In fact, members of the Sea Org, the innermost unit of the church hierarchy, sign a form pledging to devote themselves to Scientology for the next billion years.

    The church has its own penal system known as the Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF). Those who have gone through the RPF describe a system similar to conditions in a gulag, where there are scraps for food, little sleep, constant physical labor, and intense degradation.12

    In short, what Hubbard created was one of the closest replicas of George Orwell's 1984 world in existence. http://www.xenu.net/archive/lrhbare/lrhbare12.html
    it looks like a lot of this stuff has been altered by those that took over the church. LRH knew that there were sleeper children inside the church that were being controlled by mind control from the reptilians and when they grow up and wake up they will take over the church from the inside. He setup david miscavage to take over the church and remove the upper OT levels (spiritual power levels), so that the reptilians and cabal could not get any of these OT powers. then he had david handle his body in a special way so he would be able to escape the force fields of the planet and go back to central command in the galactic confederation and report his findings of the reptilians illegal methods of trying to take over this planet. Since then this area has been sanctioned "FREE ZONE" and no other alien nations are allowed to interfere with the development of the planet. Therefore the planet is ours to take but WE HAVE TO TAKE IT.

    BUT WHO IS GOING TO DO THIS??? This period of time has already happened. we are doing a rerun to stop the reptilians from their take over. After this sanction they have been stopped. So then about 70 million brand new spirits out of the static (source) itself (like Inelia and me) were sent back to this time to raise the vibrations of the planet. This would raise the theta level up to a point where the reptilians can't operate at and we could take back our planet.

    We are doing that now.

    jim

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    Default Re: Covert Hostility... the Tone Level... WHAT IT IS

    Quote Posted by shadowstalker (here)
    Well that was cut and clear, i understood that perfectly...
    NO gender bashing no group bashing.
    No religion, no politics.
    Just straight to the point..
    And no judgments
    AWESOME..
    Now I get the point too. Maggie

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    Default Re: Covert Hostility... the Tone Level... WHAT IT IS

    -------
    Quote Posted by jiminii (here)

    [... a lot of stuff about scientology that's interesting and very probably true, but is on totally the wrong thread ...]

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    Default Re: Covert Hostility... the Tone Level... WHAT IT IS

    Covert hostility is something like a collection of antigens , there may be thousands of them and it goes really deep to your blood and genetic past ( speaking of antigens not extraterrestrials this time, beware the attempt of joke ).

    That's a biological explanation of course but in life , many psycho-logical items are actually firstly bio-logical , that's why they may be extremely difficult to work out in certain cases .
    There are hidden antigens , thousands of them associated with certain foods, smells, vibrational levels, colours, types of behaviour , tones of voice , plants, animals, minerals and types of humans . Very few of them are active when your human body is born ,
    but many are turned on during your life when you are confronted with say, epigenetic source of the agent, previously known to be hostile to one of your remote ancestors . The trick is, they may not be hostile to you anymore and they probably aren't but if your DNA can not decide , the easiest way to react is to start chain of covertly immune reaction that at the end looks like : oh i really can not stand the place, the person, the food etc .

    Yes of course it has lots to do with sex as well because sex is an expression of love and proximity , not meaning the physical act even, simply joining hands or sharing your chair with the other person can be enough to share your love and covert biological information with them .

    And whilst love and friendship are our TRUE nature , and we silently presume that we are able to love everything living because we were created with benevolent and intelligent intent and we should be able to get together ( looking at todays world it does not look like that )
    our history is equally true to us . It shapes what we like and warns us from what is dangerous .

    And so we come real close to people who feel loveable at first glance and induce allergic reaction in us , at some point when we least expect it or vice versa, and we are even not able to tell them at first but at some point , confronting your own genes becomes inevitable and you start to shout or run where you should have been quiet and it's clear that something's got wrong .

    This simply says that I'm not in favour of 'right people' and 'wrong people' theory . Mankind is a unique collection of unique characters . Extremely complicated by the fact that everyone carries set of their ancestors unique past that has mutated in him to something yet more unique and we have to deal with the complication, more of us coming together .

    When you can tolerate the other person at 99% rate and vice versa ( both ) , you're a close match, that's why ( maybe ) some siblings , relatives and even homo-sexual loves are love because you can understand each other well .

    On the other hand ... without a strong immunity , mankind would not survive very long and that's they key answer for many so called 'macho strong humans' who are mostly straight people ( though some can probably even 'stand' being opposite or anything else ) , because they can control their immunity reaction to very good level and can't be simply bothered .

    There is not one answer to everything and never will be ...that's why discussions exist .

    The Old Testament Jews , Indian Brahmins and many other old and orthodox groups had one type of answers that may look outdated in our modern society and those answers to the problem was keeping to rules and precepts,
    knowing that if you keep to those rules and precepts, wash your hand regularly, don't eat certain foods at certain times, don't touch people and animals at the same time, even don't cook some plants together and other silly things, you can avoid turning on your super duper immunity switches that feels like 'negativity' and you can feel 'pure' and calm .

    This type of approach shaped whole long lineages of purely sensitive people who knew how to live in balance in their environments ( but almost inevitably failed to do so when climate and environment changed in long run and those beautiful lineages degenerated ) .

    The other type of answers , told to be more advanced are embedded in the esoteric teachings as well as many new-age type of every old society , where the advice simply is , learn to accept as many things as you can as your own , and try to learn to control your immunity reaction , control your aggression, love your ( smelly noisy half educated ) neighbours, when you are shot at , don't shoot .

    Personally, I think that that both approaches are useful and necessary to a big deal and future mankind will have to understand and utilise both if you want to live on one planet .



    And of course, as usually .. where do I fall in it .... is land of unknown ..for most, enough to say that as very sensitive individual and outsider to many 'human traits and chains' , I am confronted with this sense of misconceptions about 'where do I come from' for most of my life, from both ladies and gentlemen, who feel a strange sense of sudden 'knowing' , call it impression about my existence , sense of closeness or strangeness based on the little error you get in brain each time when meeting with unknown . I'm sure you all experience the phenomenon to a deal as well . But it can feel indeed very odd, like people mistaking you automatically for who you are not. Sorry for that interjection and self -defensive .

    I do not call that hostility , it's mostly an error . Imagine a battlefield and you were taught or told to fire at someone who would be your best friend in life.
    You were 'ordered' to bully someone whom you never tried to understand and who loved you .
    It's more often the case than otherwise. Sad but true.



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    Default Re: Covert Hostility... the Tone Level... WHAT IT IS

    Hypothetically speaking, if someone were to be covertly hostile/passive aggressive how would they 'fix' this? How would they know this?

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    Default Re: Covert Hostility... the Tone Level... WHAT IT IS

    Quote Posted by Strat (here)
    Hypothetically speaking, if someone were to be covertly hostile/passive aggressive how would they 'fix' this? How would they know this?
    Hi Strat, wishing You well

    If You re-read Rahkyt's post and my post above You will see that You can correct these things right in front of You when they occur, that is one way to do it personally....just simply letting the party that is committing the act know that You see through what they are doing and that it is not necessary or 'called for' for them to do it while You are in the mix because it simply 'does not rub' with You!
    Just try to get a situation You are in as straight as You know how or are prompted to in that moment.

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  25. Link to Post #93
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    Default Re: Covert Hostility... the Tone Level... WHAT IT IS

    After five pages I still don't know what scale you are talking about. What is this tone that one can be lower than death? How is that pertinent to anything? Why are tones being talked about as if everyone should know what that is. Or do I have to read all of your threads before I find the answer? Why is any of this being talked of as if it is fact? Bodies without spirits, you say, and 99% don't have a spirit? Then I must be very lucky because everyone I know has a spirit.
    How is a body animated without spirit anyway?

    And since I'm at it, how can you be cleared if you had no past to clear? And if they did not clear your future how can you be clear? Just curious.

    Everyone can be covertly hostile. Is it really a continuous state for so many? I am finding none of this helpful. But it's late and I'm tired, I might see things a bit more clearly in the morning. Maybe tomorrow I can come to grips with homosexuals being lower than death in your tone scale.
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

    Free will can only be as free as the mind that conceives it.

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  27. Link to Post #94
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    Default Re: Covert Hostility... the Tone Level... WHAT IT IS

    Click image for larger version

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    This is tone scale of human emotions
    GE goes from zero death to 4 enthusiasm
    spirit goes from - 40 to plus 40

    jim
    Last edited by jiminii; 25th August 2013 at 06:10.

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  29. Link to Post #95
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    Default Re: Covert Hostility... the Tone Level... WHAT IT IS

    Quote Posted by yiolas (here)
    Hi Jiminni, I can see where your coming from, in the respect that people who over emphasize their sexuality in their daily lives ( whether they are gay or straight) are stuck in a vibrational low frequency. However, I would not categorize all gays to be in that frequency.
    I feel sorry for people who can't rise above above their 1st or 2nd chakras. I was a wild child myself well into my 40's. Thank God I grew out of that stage. A lot of people though, unfortunately live out their lives in that vibration.
    Thank you Yiolas, you put it better than I did, it can be hell on earth, one was never a danger to anybody, only to yourself, a horrible low state.

    Regards to you Yiolas

    roman

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  31. Link to Post #96
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    Default Re: Covert Hostility... the Tone Level... WHAT IT IS

    Jimini, can you please replicate the tone scale of yours so it can be read. Looks fascinating but I can't read the fine print!

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  33. Link to Post #97
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    Default Re: Covert Hostility... the Tone Level... WHAT IT IS

    Quote Posted by Carmen (here)
    Jimini, can you please replicate the tone scale of yours so it can be read. Looks fascinating but I can't read the fine print!
    Hi carmen

    If you press the pics, they will enlarge, then right click and save as images.

    regards

    roman

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  35. Link to Post #98
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    Default Re: Covert Hostility... the Tone Level... WHAT IT IS

    Yes, I can enlarge them on my iPad but they are still unreadable.

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  37. Link to Post #99
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    Default Re: Covert Hostility... the Tone Level... WHAT IT IS

    there is one already made in the jiminii threads ... but I have to look for it

    jim

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  39. Link to Post #100
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    Default Re: Covert Hostility... the Tone Level... WHAT IT IS

    Quote Posted by Carmen (here)
    Yes, I can enlarge them on my iPad but they are still unreadable.
    Carmen, they are available on the scientology handbook website:
    http://www.scientologyhandbook.org/FULL.HTM

    -- Pan
    "What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence.
    The only consequence is what we do."

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