Is the white light after we die a trap?

[Lifebringer]

There was no bright light when I died on the table, I just hovered above my body in the corner ceiling of the room for awhile and when my child was born decided I wanted to be there, then was sucked in as they placed the paddles on my chest, after pulling her out. She was breech birth, and my body cardioarrested from the stress.

[Shezbeth]

I apologize, you asked if I have an opinion and I referred you to that of others.

My opinion is that I lack sufficient information/experience to answer that question with certainty. I have versed myself with countless ideologies that would prescribe going towards the light, still more which advise escaping it. The majority (in person) seem to agree to go toward the light, and I find that in most things majority is reliably incorrect/misinformed. I for one can't be sure there even IS a light, because I haven't died nor had NDE; Sorry, but my attempts to 'not die' thus far have been successful.

I suggest that anyone who claims to 'know' is talking out both ends.

If death is in any way comparable to life, if there is a choice to be made at that point - one being conducive and one not - I do not expect to have the conducive choice granted or given. If then, I am pulled toward the light I shall resist. Likewise, if I am pushed away by the light I will go toward it.

I like what Markpierre said about eating reptiles, I had long since resolved to do so of any entity demanding/seeking my fealty/obeisance/substance. I agree with Chocolate and Billyji that concern for proper living is far more relevant than concern for what to do when dying.

I will answer with certainty after that point if I am so inclined, though I wouldn't rule out having other more pressing matters to attend.

[Crystine]

In answer to the question about the white light being a trap. If someone really does know. They are not telling. Better to always live in YOUR moment. So much of what we are afraid of is instilled by others. It is a lack of personal knowledge. When you get to the point of life where you previously thought there should be a bright light..............it will most likely be a door to open. Which you will do. Have faith in yourself. It will be exactly the right door, for YOU. Thank you Kindread for bringing that thought out of me. Like your quote.....always on time. Have faith that there will always be a deeper goodness working on your behalf. (Sp?)

[waves]

Posted by CD7 (here)
All I know is I have NO RECALL now---that has always sent red flags to me over and over...it bothers me to no end that I YOU, HIM, HER, THEM HAVE ABSOLUTLEY NO IDEA WHO THEY ARE OR WHERE THEY CAME FROM?!


So whats the problem with this?? Everyone AND anyone can TELL YOU ANYTHING about who you are, where you came from, and where your going...just like this thread~ ITS all WE do over and over and over and over and over and over again---CONTEMPLATE OURSELVES WHILE WE HAVE NO FIRST HAND KNOWLEGDE FROM SELF

Hummm what to think about this??? Someone or something has hidden us from ourselves?....we are in a school where for some reason we are to KNOW nothing? Other guesses could go on and on and on......until we die!!! And the kicker is NOONE comes back to tell the tale...OUR EXISTENCE IS NON SENSICAL when one really contemplates our REALITY in this moment


I would LOVE to see this change --FOR ALL INVOLVED


May we know who we are, where we came from, and know where we are going!!! AND SO IT IS !!!

LOL. After all these years of 1000's of hours of reading, watching, listening, being, trying to get answers... I think this is the most glaringly direct, honest and true summation of human existence I've ever read.

All I can add.... there have been moments all these years when I believed every one of the other viewpoints presented so far here. I don't trust any right now.

My current suspicion is that the big picture/origin of soul/nature of consciousness is much, much bigger than my human mind can wrap around, and all the viewpoints presented here are our feeble attempt and need to have some comfortable answer.

[Tony]

I've read through the Tibetan Book of the dead many times, and done the practice for those passed on, and have had teachings on the subject.

Basically, all appearances are a projection of one's own mind. That is why we practice non distraction. There are bright lights and dim lights, the bright light invites us to higher realms, and the dim light leads us to lower realms.

We only have a choice if we have practiced throughout our life. If we have not practiced and just done our own thing, then we are driven by our karma. One only has to observe how we over react in life to see that we are not in control...

There is much more to this. This is only the Tibetan Buddhist view, and others of course see it differently.




Tony

[Joe Akulis]

From http://www.near-death.com/experiences/cayce01.html#a03

"Cayce scholar Henry Reed states that Cayce went up and up through a very large column, passing by all the horrible things without coming in contact personally with them, and came out where there was the house of records. Cayce stated that as he ascended the column, there would be beings on either side of him calling out to him for help or trying to get his attention. Cayce knew that any deviation from the column and the beam of light would mean he would not be able to return to his body. It, the column, wound around on a wheel like the Rotarians have.

Cayce mentioned that he felt very secure traveling this way."


This was a nice clue for me, when I used to have questions about the tunnel of light.

Later, when I combined this with all the other NDE stories I've read, and then the works of Robert Monroe, where he ends up distingushing for us the various levels of 4d consciousness, and then the works of Bruce Moen, where he performs all sorts of astral rescue work in the 4d realms, I then had a pretty good understanding of what the tunnel is for. And I had a wonderful new understanding of what the belief-system territories are that he passes by, with the horrible things that wanted to come out and contact him on the way by.

If you're sitting in the lower, near-earth astral--what Cayce called "the void"--and your fears are about to eat you alive, calling for help produces the tunnel of light. I've read posts from NDE experiencers on the IANDS website, http://iands.org/home.html who have said this exact thing. They also have said that thinking you are "unworthy" of the kingdom of heaven because you are just a lowly sinner has caused that tunnel to close, and utter despair would often ensue.

Perhaps if one understood that the tunnel was a pathway to the higher areas of 4d consciousness, or the reception area, or "The Park", as it is often called, then maybe one would be less reluctant to leap in.

However, and here's the important part, I have also read NDE accounts of people who are stopped at certain points along the way in this tunnel upwards and told that "this is as far as you can go." Why? Not because they didn't merit some silly heavenly rewards. Because both their beliefs and their personal experience has not yet risen enough to allow them to comfortably dwell in any higher area of 4d consciousness.

That tells me, you need to put your curiostity cap on, baby, because all you have to do is ask, and the answers come rolling in, especially in this time we are in. It has never been easier to find answers. But if you're not asking, then the spiritual aids who stand ready willing and able to help you with your evolution, well, they have to sit idle, because to hit you over the head with higher truths without being asked would be an abrogation of your free will.

And while you're feeding the hunger to seek, learn up on meditation and start exploring those higher energies. Learn them. Control them. Become comfortable using and existing with them, via meditation.

Then maybe when you hop on the expressway past all the muck and mire of the twisted belief system territories in the mid astral of 4d, you won't get any flat tires.

If you actually believe that we "can't know the answers" to what's waiting for us beyond death, then you are simply at the early stages of your search. Those frontiers are becoming more well known to mankind every day. And everyone out there is waiting for YOU to start your journey upwards and outwards, with open arms.


P.S. Don't think that I'm not also aware of all the negative things that can also trip you up along the way, including yourself. But if fear is what keeps you from learning, and growing, and asking, then they've won. And you continue to remain a coppertop battery for them. Want help with fear? Go to http://ascension101.com/ and read some of Inelia's advice on ways to work with your fears.

[Sunny-side-up]

Seconded CD7

I have never feared death!
I have always had an inner knowing that there is more to life!
I have always believed we are truly of a spiritual nature but have been separated from full connection (but not all connection)!
I believe we are being manipulated!
Manipulated either by something other dimensional (or at least something very powerful at manipulation)!
This might actually turn out to be our own mind, as mentioned we are co-creators and knowing us we probably are our own worst enemy Doh!
I understand the what you think of you are (good and bad)

I'm not a fear-porn munger it's just lately I can't help, while pondering my many experiences of this existence; that we do always have choices and that it might well be one of 'freely get pulled into the tunnel' or 'stop to look before you jump'!

[Rocky_Shorz]

Posted by Lifebringer (here)
There was no bright light when I died on the table, I just hovered above my body in the corner ceiling of the room for awhile and when my child was born decided I wanted to be there, then was sucked in as they placed the paddles on my chest, after pulling her out. She was breech birth, and my body cardioarrested from the stress.

you weren't meant to leave, being gifted your subconscious took over and passed images of what was going on in the room...

you wanted to see your child, and that pull was strong enough to make leaving impossible...

if you would have passed ( Thank God you didn't) you could have become one of the wandering souls, not realizing all you have to do is say OK I'm ready and the light would appear...

I have turned on the light for lost souls to enter, I think we all have the ability being Spiritual beings...


Saint Woodward stepped through with one foot and stopped, turning back to help the people he loved and the light follows him everywhere...

I was able to see through to Nirvanna while talking with him...

so no, I'm not worried and it wasn't a tunnel, more like a dimensional doorway opening.

it wasn't just once I saw it, he was around me for over a week, trying to get the message to me on Kissinger and the Bush cronies that killed hundreds of thousands in South America on a Commi hunt...

[Joe Akulis]

"I believe we are being manipulated!
Manipulated either by something other dimensional (or at least something very powerful at manipulation)!"

Ah. Does this mean you seek to learn more about the matrix?

Side note: I just rented Cloud Atlas. I LOVED the way they brought back Hugo Weaving and used him. Gee, can you say putting a face on the matrix anyone? :-)
"There is a natural order to this world, and those who try to upend it do not fare well."

[Calz]

I come here in this thread in humility ... cuz I simply don't know.

It would seem the Universe has a plan to change the story every time I learn something.


Soon as it became clear death was not to be feared and part of life ... then the stories like this of *not* following the light popped up.


Greatest comfort I had was the clearly truthful stories pouring from the NDE'rs ... and now come the stories of those are controlled by the "dark".


WTF???


Clearly forces are doing their best to make sure there is a high level of confusion in "these times".


Wish I had more to offer ... yet when many (if not most ... or all) sources of "downloaded" spiritual information regardless of source are to be questioned then all I can do is offer my own bewildered sympathy.


Whenever I get to a place I feel "I know" ... something happens.


IMHO

[Joe Akulis]

Thank you so much for jumping in, Rocky! People need to know that it's not just conjecture. That at a certain point in your seeking, you come to a realization: Hey, I can do this stuff too!

Developing a talent can often take numerous lifetimes. Edgar Cayce didn't just magically understand how to go into trance and navigate to the akashic records. He had a previous life where he was stranded in a desert and things became so painful for him that he forced himself to learn how to separate from his body. Now that's what I call a catalyst! A leap here, a step there, some new skills in the other lifetime, eventually you become someone who can heal, or paint like a master, or play piano like mozart... Becoming familliar with the afterlife, or the beforelife, or the in-between life, while you are on this side of the veil is something you can do. But if it's like one of those term papers where you may need say, 4 good lifetimes to really get the hang of it, would you put off the beginning of that work? Or take it up with patience?

:-)

[Maia Gabrial]

If you listen to what the Galactic Historian says, the Earth's reincarnation system was hijacked by the 15 powerful interdimensional beings. The Council that reads our life readings were corrupted and don't give proper life readings upon death, so it's just another way we got screwed over. Yeah, I'd say it's a trap....

[markpierre]

Posted by Shezbeth (here)
I apologize, you asked if I have an opinion and I referred you to that of others.

My opinion is that I lack sufficient information/experience to answer that question with certainty. I have versed myself with countless ideologies that would prescribe going towards the light, still more which advise escaping it. The majority (in person) seem to agree to go toward the light, and I find that in most things majority is reliably incorrect/misinformed. I for one can't be sure there even IS a light, because I haven't died nor had NDE; Sorry, but my attempts to 'not die' thus far have been successful.

I suggest that anyone who claims to 'know' is talking out both ends.

If death is in any way comparable to life, if there is a choice to be made at that point - one being conducive and one not - I do not expect to have the conducive choice granted or given. If then, I am pulled toward the light I shall resist. Likewise, if I am pushed away by the light I will go toward it.

I like what Markpierre said about eating reptiles, I had long since resolved to do so of any entity demanding/seeking my fealty/obeisance/substance. I agree with Chocolate and Billyji that concern for proper living is far more relevant than concern for what to do when dying.

I will answer with certainty after that point if I am so inclined, though I wouldn't rule out having other more pressing matters to attend.

This is interesting, in that the premise of the thread has me really working on reconciling my own beliefs on the matter. It's been a long time since I've had much interest in it. I've never had the idea that there was something 'out there' waiting to attack me or absorb me, but a lot of years of unworthiness and worry over the consequences of unworthiness. I think that all that's happened for me is a slowly developing trust that 'all is well' and that a bigger game is in play.

But that includes a few memories of prior deaths, and the peace and relief and joy of those moments of leaving the body. Those preceded unresolved traumatic memories of the experiences that culminated in those deaths. 'Culminated' sounds kind of funny. It feels more like a 'reboot'.

It also has to include moments of 'giving up' in situations as diverse as being in an out of control car spinning in circles down an icy freeway, or sitting on a stump and expanding out into the rainforest. Doesn't seem like anything I've willingly done, though 'giving up' in panic, has always proven to be the solution for it. We all seem inclined to struggle against the current to the point of exhaustion, if we believe there's a waterfall downstream. It seems reasonable.

I'll have to say that of all the experiences I've had with 'the dead' and 'the dying', the topic of lights and tunnels never came up. Even a very few that returned to express gratitude, or simply 'to report' (if that was useful for me, I don't know), still no mention of lights or tunnels.

"though I wouldn't rule out having other more pressing matters to attend" is beautiful in it's pragmatism. My mother came to me 3 days after she died. It was simply a vision of what she wanted me to know as how she felt. Young and beautiful and free and excited, which was reassuring for me. Or maybe a vision of what I'd hope for her. Who knows.
But it was clear that she was anxious to get on with her own business. In contrast, my father visited immediately after passing (the next night) and was in a state of turmoil over what he considered failures. He kept a sense of regret for a time. Is that pre-light? Post-light? I don't know. Is that all in my imagination? Could be.

I do think it's a case of wait and see. I also think it's practical if we hold a fear and dread of death, because it's so inevitable, it might be wise to address fear and dread before hand. We may be liable to conjure up anything, if conjuring is what we're doing now. I'm not so sure about eating the reptilian, but it may be possible to step up to it and tell it to f-off. You're right. It does work in the here/now far better than I'd imagined. Personally, I think that's all we're really doing here at this point in the exercise.

What has occurred in me, and this is the difference for me between belief and 'certainty', is that my fear of death has diminished to the degree that I'm far more willing (and able) to address fears here and now, as they confront me.

In my experience (so far) there's been nothing more exhilarating than having the thought 'oh-oh, now I'm dead', and discovering I was wrong.

[greybeard]

The Mystics for many thousands of years have been saying One thing consistently.
In-spite of what seems to be the case---there is only one soul, one consciousness, one Self and you are That.
Unity consciousness--Oneness call it what you will---that is your true nature.
The only thing to fear is fear and in this illusion in whos interest is it to keep people in fear---expecting to rescued saved
by some outside influence.

There is nothing outside which is not first and foremost inside.

The sages warn that your last thoughts before you die will take you to what you believe to be your heaven or hell.
(In my Father house are many mansions) Jesus quote.

If your thoughts are still believing that the illusion is the only truth, then guess what, you have not graduated from earth school and you will reincarnate here yet again.

Chris

[Rocky_Shorz]

Posted by seeker1972 (here)
Thank you so much for jumping in, Rocky! People need to know that it's not just conjecture. That at a certain point in your seeking, you come to a realization: Hey, I can do this stuff too!

Developing a talent can often take numerous lifetimes. Edgar Cayce didn't just magically understand how to go into trance and navigate to the akashic records. He had a previous life where he was stranded in a desert and things became so painful for him that he forced himself to learn how to separate from his body. Now that's what I call a catalyst! A leap here, a step there, some new skills in the other lifetime, eventually you become someone who can heal, or paint like a master, or play piano like mozart... Becoming familliar with the afterlife, or the beforelife, or the in-between life, while you are on this side of the veil is something you can do. But if it's like one of those term papers where you may need say, 4 good lifetimes to really get the hang of it, would you put off the beginning of that work? Or take it up with patience?

:-)

it's really quite simple...

Heaven is perfect and we aren't, that's why we keep coming back for the ride...

some people get tired and retire, some of us are gluttons for punishment...

my girlfriend said she didn't believe in reincarnation, so I asked her if she'd want to stay in heaven if she couldn't have sex...

all the fun stuff is here, even the pain is a learning experience we needed and wanted to feel alive...

I'll be first in line for the next roller coaster ride...

[Carmody]

Posted by Calz (here)
I come here in this thread in humility ... cuz I simply don't know.

It would seem the Universe has a plan to change the story every time I learn something.


Soon as it became clear death was not to be feared and part of life ... then the stories like this of *not* following the light popped up.


Greatest comfort I had was the clearly truthful stories pouring from the NDE'rs ... and now come the stories of those are controlled by the "dark".


WTF???


Clearly forces are doing their best to make sure there is a high level of confusion in "these times".


Wish I had more to offer ... yet when many (if not most ... or all) sources of "downloaded" spiritual information regardless of source are to be questioned then all I can do is offer my own bewildered sympathy.


Whenever I get to a place I feel "I know" ... something happens.


IMHO

...now you're getting it.....

No rest for the wicked.

Or... there is no comfort to be achieved in aspect of pursuing knowing. Only in willful ignorance, or in the knowing, is the comfort achieved. The rest.....is the view from the road.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Posted by Maia Gabrial (here)
If you listen to what the Galactic Historian says, the Earth's reincarnation system was hijacked by the 15 powerful interdimensional beings. The Council that reads our life readings were corrupted and don't give proper life readings upon death, so it's just another way we got screwed over. Yeah, I'd say it's a trap....

the alternative is...

people that don't believe in a beyond get up from the casket, brush themselves off and wander for an eternity as a cold heartless spirit...

they step into live beings to re-experience life, many times causing their host misery and illness...

is that the future you are looking for?

why would anyone talk you into staying, twisting fear in your mind to prevent what comes naturally to all of us?

[Rocky_Shorz]

Posted by Maia Gabrial (here)
If you listen to what the Galactic Historian says, the Earth's reincarnation system was hijacked by the 15 powerful interdimensional beings. The Council that reads our life readings were corrupted and don't give proper life readings upon death, so it's just another way we got screwed over. Yeah, I'd say it's a trap....

do you have the number to the Galactic Historian?

We need to talk...


let me pull on my pointy toed boots, I have 15 interdimensional butts to kick...

[naste.de.lumina]

Posted by Sunny-side-up (here)
Azt thanks for this post, I do share your concern/observation about the "Light"
That is a great point in our journey to set a trap!

I have tried to start conservation posts on this subject before.

In said posts I explained my experiences with forbidden Taoist Breathing exercises!
What I experienced was amazing and I believe it was the Light-Tunnel-Entrance,
but from a static viewpoint IE I wasn't dying but visiting under my own awake consciousness.
What you see then because of being still/observing are the objects that make up the Light;
because you aren't hurtling down through them as too blur them into a bright light!

I also believe the ET's that imprison us (As talked about in so many articles/vid's/interviews and posts); the ones that enslave us for our energies by repeatedly diverting us back into this circle/cycle of so called life (A diminished pale version of life) are actually "Djinns"
Who are the first and continued deceivers of Humanity, they are great shape shifters of themselfs and our perceived view of reality.

You have choices at that point, you do!

markpierre you say
"Nothing and no one can erase who you are. Your human identity isn't that important to you when you've left form anyway.
It isn't very important now.
The answer to the question you've asked is no."

Well I've also herd and read so many articles/vid's/interviews and posts that say we have been repeatedly on a massive scale concussed of knowledge and our history, true ancestry; many, many times and what we are all fighting for now, in these great days have been "Not to let it happen again"

So yes! I truly do believe there is a trap that we (Not all) fall into time after time, after time!

Time to Break that chain

My friend Sunny-side-up.

After a long time thinking about this issue that raised , the following might occur :

Extradimensional entities you mentioned , could be extraterrestrial or disembodied spirits , no matter , as we ( incarnate ) , we have a vibration (frequency ) that determines our reality and track course ( we are in phase with this frequency ) .
When we die , and our consciousness or spirit is released from the body, leaving to suffer interference from frequency body . The vibration determines where to go to get to the other side. N possibilities frequency . We went back to being a conscious electromagnetic field . Frequency energy .... .... Phase .

We may indeed be attracted to frequencies of reality, where these entities owns certain domain
Regardless if it is because they are disembodied or through technology.
An example :
The individual dies and gets there with no idea where it is. Same was when he was incarnate. Do not know who it is, where it came from and where it goes .
It also does not bother to acquire knowledge to try to find out .
Car, house and apartment were his main concern for life .
Do not you know no law of action and reaction . It is he who creates reality . Do not believe in extraterrestrial . Spirits are ghosts . He knows nothing .
Easy prey to any entity a bit malicious . There are millions .
Easily fooled . Not to mention that this ignorance led to a frequency where there are many like him . But many know exactly how things work in this reality , are smart , it is only the negative vibration is low , the frequency of them has to rise as it is negative . But they learn , and still wanting power.

On the other hand, if your consciousness is expanded , you seek self-knowledge , is pursuing a path of wisdom , to die , you will naturally for a range of reality where the frequency is much higher , positive . So the possibility that there exist entities that have the intent to deceive , will be much smaller .

It is possible .

Hug,

[Rocky_Shorz]

the Blue Dude laughed...

we are being watched over so closely that what is being shared isn't possible...

what makes us all special is our Spirits, where we are from and going back to...

if they want Spirits, there are billions wandering earth, they could grab one of them and it wouldn't be noticed...

can you imagine if the Avalon Collective was trapped for even a moment...

their dimension would disappear from our timeline...

we are quick Judges and Juries...

I have seen so many who have crossed over with no problems, maybe the trap is known as Hell for the Illuminati and Bush's buddies...