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Thread: Is the white light after we die a trap?

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    United States Avalon Member Calz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the white light after we die a trap?

    Quote Posted by Wind (here)
    Dr. Michael Newton's Journey of Souls should be a must read for everyone, it did change my views drastically when I was waking up years ago. In physical life we can be manipulated and controlled and our worst enemy is our own fear. In death there is nothing to be afraid in the spirit world. God is benevolent and we are being guided by higher beings of light. Any negative manipulation isn't allowed there, but unfortunately here on Earth it is human's free will has been affected by malevolent forces.

    Hey I have that ... I read/loved it ... and it is sitting atop my computer desk among 3 big stacks of books.

    I was right on board with you when I read it ... dunno who or what to believe these daze (appears the illooneynaughties are winning with at least me)

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    Default Re: Is the white light after we die a trap?

    Myself, I am a sucker for the white light, it is one of the few situations where I will jump in with both soul feet, because I am going home.

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    United States Avalon Member Calz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the white light after we die a trap?

    There has to be balance in the Universe ... else we would not be here???

    (huh??? did I say that???)

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    Default Re: Is the white light after we die a trap?

    Enlightenment is logical.
    Recognise pure awareness
    and lose the attitude.

    The cause of suffering
    is not recognising
    pure awareness
    and having a lot of attitude.

    The word enLIGHTen is used for a reason.
    It means to be crystal clear, to illuminate, uncontaminated, to be pure of heart.
    www.buddhainthemud.com

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    Default Re: Is the white light after we die a trap?

    Carlos Castaneda and Gurdjieff both spoke of what happens when human beings die, and how we can consciously shape our death experience.

    Gurdjieff spoke of souls that had not yet evolved sufficiently becoming "food for the Moon" upon death.

    From:http://gurdjiefflegacy.wordpress.com...ersjeofjp9-11/

    Quote Everything living on the Earth, people, animals, plants, is food for the moon…. All movements, actions, and manifestations of people, animals, and plants depend upon the moon and are controlled by the moon…. The mechanical part of our life depends upon the moon, is subject to the moon. If we develop in ourselves consciousness and will, and subject our mechanical life and all our mechanical manifestations to them, we shall escape from the power of the moon.

    —G. I. Gurdjieff

    In 1916, hoping to interest the Russian intelligentsia in his teaching, Mr. Gurdjieff asked his students to spread the ideas. It’s likely that the idea about man being not only a puppet of the moon but also its “food” was one they rarely, if ever, spoke about. It’s just too strange. Even today, some 90 years later, there is little discussion about the unique place given the moon in the teaching. If mentioned at all, it is taken either as a fable or as a metaphor for the creation of the moon in oneself. But Gurdjieff maintained that all of his ideas could be taken in seven different ways, one of which is factual.

    Gurdjieff’s ideas of the moon’s control and use of the organic life of the Earth, and that but for the moon’s need there would be no organic life, or at the least a very different organic life on Earth, seem to be unique to The Fourth Way. Is this idea—that all organic life and man in particular are intimately involved in the mechanical process of reciprocal maintenance—unique to Gurdjieff’s teaching or have modern science, other ways, teachings and religions spoken of this?

    Today’s scientific thought considers the moon to be essentially dead and acknowledges only the gravitational influence of the moon, primarily the tidal effect. This influence could be considered a “measurable” influence. There is anecdotal evidence of the moon’s more “subtle” influence on human behavior, generally considered to be a negative effect, on a woman’s menstrual cycle and on plant growth. Belief in the moon’s subtle influence on life is widely held among diverse cultures and often incorporated into their agrarian and cultural practices and beliefs. Science to date has been unable to prove that these subtle influences on life are real.



    Water & Life

    Though there is perhaps a connection between the scientifically acknowledged, measurable influence of the moon as the cause of tidal movements, human behavior and women’s menstrual cycles, these studies are quite far from showing causation. The commonality may be that the moon does affect the movement of fluids on Earth. The human body is between 50 and 60 percent water, with the brain containing approximately 75 percent water. Plant life can contain up to 90 percent water. The one element that science believes to be indispensable for life is water. Scientific thought sees that the Earth has an abundance of water, a complex atmosphere and therefore an abundance of life. Conversely, until recently science believed the moon has no water, no atmosphere, and no way of acquiring either and therefore is dead and will likely always be dead. The part of this scientific thinking that has recently changed involves the presence of water on the moon. The moon is now believed to have small quantities of water in the form of ice at the moon’s south and north poles. The source and extent of water on the moon is unknown.

    So, is the moon dead or merely a very young planet (in planetary terms) beginning its process of growth? Gurdjieff stated quite clearly that the moon is a being, a younger version of the Earth, evolving and growing with the help of organic life on Earth. That organic life is influenced and manipulated to provide what the moon needs for its growth. This Trogoautoegocratic system is a part of the teaching’s cosmology, as graphically demonstrated in the Ray of Creation. As a part of Fourth Way cosmology, the moon is near the end of the descending creative octave. It is in the creation, or origin of the moon, that current science belatedly has come to a very similar, though not identical, view as to the mechanics that led to the creation of the moon.



    Gurdjieff’s Anulios Discovered

    In the First Series Gurdjieff writes that the moon was created accidentally by the collision of the Earth with the comet Kondoor. The largest fragment created by this collision was subsequently captured and became Earth’s moon. After many years of favoring other theories, today’s science, for the most part, has come to accept the hypothesis of a giant collision as the causal event which resulted in the creation of the moon. This theory postulates that during the Earth’s early life, some four billion years ago, a planetoid of approximately the size of Mars collided with a young planet Earth. The ensuing debris that was the result of the collision accreted and formed the moon. Satellite investigations and analysis of the rocks brought back to earth by the Apollo manned space missions have provided many details of the composition of the moon. With the use of this information and computer modeling, modern science has generally come to believe that the moon’s origin is best explained by the giant collision hypothesis.

    Amazingly, Gurdjieff also held that at the time of this collision a smaller moon, which he calls Anulios, was created. Some 20 years after his death this was scientifically verified. The New York Times reported in July 1970:

    It has recently been discovered that the Earth and the moon do not make up an isolated, self-sufficient two-body system, as men have believed for centuries. Rather, they are part of a three-body system whose third member is a tiny “quasi-moon” only a mile or two in diameter. Toro, as this third body has been named, wanders around the sun five times in the time that it takes Earth to make eight circuits. When Toro comes too near earth—9.3 million miles at the closest point—Earth’s gravity tends to change Toro’s curvilinear path so that on its next passage it is further away from Earth; in turn, Earth’s gravity affects this revised path so that on its following pass it is closer to Earth.

    While current scientific thought has relegated the moon to a chunk of dead rock exerting only a measurable gravitational influence on the Earth, this view did not always dominate man’s beliefs. The science, religions and peoples of the ancient world had a quite different view of the moon.

    Pliny the Elder, a first century Roman naturalist, illustrates the scientific beliefs of his time which still held the moon as an influential presence on the organic life of Earth. “We may certainly conjecture that the moon is not unjustly regarded as the star of our life. This it is that replenishes the earth; when she approaches it, she fills all the bodies, while when she recedes, she empties them. From this cause it is that shell-fish increase with the increase of the moon and that the bloodless creatures especially feel the breath at that time; even the blood of men grows and diminishes with the light of the moon, and leaves and herbage also feel the same influence, since the lunar energy penetrates all things.”

    Pliny’s words and observations, specifics aside, are not incompatible with Fourth Way teachings in that they represent a sweeping and dynamic view of the moon’s influence on organic life.



    A Life-Giving Moon?

    In the past, the moon was often seen as a living, life-giving and life-effecting being as represented by a particular god or goddess. Worship of the moon or its representatives and the orientation of life by the lunar calendar was a main focus of religious life. Time was measured by the cycles of the moon and the moon was believed to have an effect on the most essential aspects of life. Within the beliefs of the past there is often found a close association of the moon with liquids of life: water, rain, the ocean, dew, sap, milk, blood, semen, menstrual fluids. The crescent moon often represented a container of a life-giving liquid and is seen throughout the ancient world as a crown adorning the heads of gods and goddesses. The old polytheistic religions of the world are replete with moon gods, goddesses and beings associated with the moon: Thoth, Ancient Egypt; Bridgit the Enchantress, Celtic Ireland; Diana, Ancient Rome; Artemis the Divine Archer, Ancient Greece; Shing-Moo, Ancient China; Cybele, The Lioness, Ancient Phrygia; Sinn, Ancient Babylonia; Helcate, the dark one, Ancient Greece; Lilith, Ancient Sumeria; Khons, the forgotten Egyptian, Ancient Egypt; Caridwen, Queen of the Cauldron; Danu, the Good Mother, Ireland; Isis, Mistress of Majic, Ancient Egypt, and many others.

    Though many of man’s religions of the past promoted these beliefs, people through their own observations, experiences and instincts could often confirm the basis of religious teachings. In the arid climes where civilization first arose, the moon was generally the most important object and focus of religious ideas and observances. In juxtaposition to the sun, the other large dynamic celestial presence in their lives, the night and moon were welcomed. The desiccating sun, often seen as a destroyer of life, was gone, cooler temperatures enveloped the world, dew was formed and life became tolerable. The tangible relief that people felt in the setting of the sun and rising of the moon confirmed the soundness of many of their religious beliefs. Throughout the records that have come to us from the past there is extensive documentation of the widespread belief of life’s dependence on the moon. This view of dependence, to some degree, correlates with Fourth Way teachings. Gurdjieff says that it is the moon that exerts a mechanical control on all organic life on earth, though he also presents a less benign posture towards the moon: “The moon is man’s big enemy. We serve the moon.” While acknowledging the moon’s control, Fourth Way teaching brings a way to escape from this control, from mechanical life to “real life.”

    Beginning with the late Bronze Age and early Iron Age (ca. 2000–1250 BCE) there began to be a lessening of the belief in the moon as the regulator and provider of life. Consequently, worship of the moon by the Earth’s peoples diminished. Concurrent with the moon’s decent there was an ascendancy of the sun in many of the religious beliefs of the world; the sun began to usurp many of the moon’s powers. This process of “solarization” was gradual and by no means universally accepted and was often met with resistance. Sun worship is essentially a learned belief. As science grew, belief in the sun’s dominance grew. Worship of the moon had begun and then grew instinctively; worship of the sun grew as the minds of men were taken with calculations and rationality. The science behind sun worship was undertaken by priests, not the people. Sun worship was facilitated by continually placing the sun’s location further and further from the Earth. Despite resistance by people clinging to the more instinctive beliefs of the past, solarization continued unabated. The solarization process has of late culminated in man’s current scientific view of the moon. This view, conveniently, is not at a cross purpose to the prevailing Western religious doctrines or conventional societal thought. By their actions and beliefs, even outside of the current mainstream religious teachings, it appears that most modern Western people have, in effect, become worshipers of the sun. In the Western world, the moon, with its importance in the minds of men greatly diminished by science and religion, has been left to the realm of poets, pagans and peasants.



    Food for the Moon

    Within the polytheistic world there is a partial correlation with The Fourth Way’s teaching regarding man as a food for the moon. In the mythology and the teachings of several of these polytheistic religions is found the belief in the moon as the repository of the finer bodies of man. In Etruscan mythology, the moon or “Luna” is the underworld, where souls go to rest and the production of new souls begins. In Greek mythology, upon death the soul and psyche first go to the moon and then go to the underworld where there is a second death and a separation. The soul then goes to the moon and the psyche to the sun. The Bhagavad-Gita describes two paths souls travel after physical death; one is the path of the sun, also known as the bright path, and the other is the path of the moon, known as the dark path. Gurdjieff states that man is a food for the moon and these myths and beliefs to a degree correlate with his statement. Gurdjieff also states that, “We are like the moon’s sheep, which it cleans, feeds and sheers, and keeps for its own purposes.” Though pantheistic religions and mythology put man under the sway of the gods they do not equate man to the status of domesticated sheep. This degree of mechanical control by the moon over organic life on Earth and man in particular is probably unique to Fourth Way teaching. Gurdjieff’s statement also implies that the moon is somehow feeding man. There is indeed some basis in Hindu beliefs that man does, at least indirectly, receive something from the moon in the form of soma. Soma in Hindu mythology is an elixir of immortality that only the gods can drink; the moon is said to be the storehouse or cup of soma. Though soma is believed by some to be a plant-derived intoxicant or hallucinogen, this may be a distraction from its real meaning. A verse from the Bhagavad-Gita speaks to this: “Permeating throughout the planetary system I maintain all moving and stationary beings by my potency and having become the essence of the moon, I nourish all plant life.”

    Certain yogis believe that soma is a life-giving fluid created from the finer bodies of man that is to be showered by the moon with her light that descends on vegetables to form vitamins; it is also present in the cerebrum and has an essential role in the reproductive process. “The astral body rises up to the moon, the sun or other heavenly stars…. All our noble and virtuous deeds, our prayers and oblations offered with faith project that astral fluid from our bodies to the higher regions. The moon being the nearest heavenly body and a satellite of the earth attracts the astral fluid thus projected up and converts it into soma which in turn falls on the electric atmosphere of the earth and showers with rains, it descends with rainwater and takes the form of sap in vegetables, and lastly takes the form of semen when vegetables are consumed as food.”

    Thus apparently it is within the Hindu yogic tradition that the closest approximation of Fourth Way teaching is found regarding the mechanical relationship of reciprocal maintenance of organic life on Earth with the moon. Even here, though there is a correspondence, there is not a clear view of the extent of organic life’s interdependence with the moon. A search through the beliefs of religions and mythology of the Earth’s peoples in seeking direct correspondence with this part of Fourth Way teaching is striking in the lack of even a close correlation. That the external teachings and beliefs of the three main monotheistic religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, have little in them that remotely resembles Fourth Way teaching is perhaps to be expected. The external trappings of all three of these great monotheistic religions were developed in a world saturated with pagan religions and were established in opposition to pagan beliefs. It is only within the polytheistic religions of the world that hints and similarities exist. The blunt clarity of Gurdjieff’s words is not to be demonstrably found within other teachings.

    The lack of direct correlation in and of itself brings forth a question. What explains the uniqueness of this part of the teaching and why isn’t there a more direct correlation? Perhaps Gurdjieff answers this himself in the First Series “It might happen that having understood the reason for their arising, namely, that by their existence they should maintain the detached fragments of their planet, and being convinced of this their slavery to circumstances utterly foreign to them, they would be unwilling to continue their existence and would on principle destroy themselves.”
    Carlos Castaneda, in 'The Eagle's Gift' describes a powerful force which sorcerers call the Eagle, which devours living souls when they die, and which the spiritual warrior, through certain conscious practices, seeks to avoid.
    From:
    http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/donjuan6.html
    Quote The power that governs the destiny of all living beings is called the Eagle or the Indescribable Force . Providing the luminous shell that comprises one's humanness has been broken, it is possible to find in the Indescribable Force the faint reflection of man. The Indescribable Force 's irrevocable dictums can then be apprehended by seers, properly interpreted by them, and accumulated in the form of a governing body. Thus the rule was formed.
    The rule is not a tale. The rule states that every living thing has been granted the power, if it so desires, to seek an opening to freedom and to go through it.
    To cross over to freedom does not mean eternal life as eternity is commonly understood--that is, as living forever. What the rule states is that one can keep the awareness which is ordinarily relinquished at the moment of dying. I cannot explain what it means to keep that awareness. My benefactor told me that at the moment of crossing, one enters into the third attention, and the body in its entirety is kindled with knowledge. Every cell at once becomes aware of itself, and also aware of the totality of the body.
    This kind of awareness is meaningless to our compartmentalized minds. Therefore the crux of the warrior's struggle is not so much to realize that the crossing over stated in the rule means crossing to the third attention, but rather to conceive that there exists such an awareness at all.
    There is a common error, that of overestimating the left-side awareness, of becoming dazzled by its clarity and power. To be in the left-side awareness does not mean that one is immediately liberated from one's folly--it only means an extended capacity for perceiving, and above all, a greater ability to forget.
    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

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    Finland Avalon Member Wind's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the white light after we die a trap?

    Quote Posted by Calz (here)
    Hey I have that ... I read/loved it ... and it is sitting atop my computer desk among 3 big stacks of books.

    I was right on board with you when I read it ... dunno who or what to believe these daze (appears the illooneynaughties are winning with at least me)
    Search your feelings, padawan. We all have the answers inside ourselves... Personally I believe that everything is ultimate guided by goodness and love. Darkness is just a part of this creation. Do you think that darkness is more powerful than the Creator who is responsible for the darkness and everything that exists? I know that when my moment comes I want to go in acceptance and peace. I might fear many things in this life, but I have already died so I'm not afraid of death.
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    Avalon Member Carmody's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the white light after we die a trap?

    Quote Posted by Calamus (here)
    F'ing great thread. Hope it stays alive with more insight.

    For me right now, after reading this thread, and if I died today, I would go with my gut about the light, as have all those nde'rs who went there, and came back changed for the better (fearless to degree about death and life). I've read many 'experiences' of near death.

    If I got no gut feeling, upon death, I will avoid the light if I can, or speak out to it,"who or what are you?" If it doesn't respond, I'll turn and see what and where I can do and go. I'll call the light God, say goodbye with a wink.

    When I get bored of the other worlds, I'll say, "hey God? What of this light?" May I see it again?

    If it shines, and I feel something great, I'll go to it.

    This, if I die today.
    Your problem will be that the 'light' is highly compulsive.

    At the same time, you will be something akin to animated thought, more than you are right now. so that thinking becomes being and doing. You will have a strong physical body implant or memory residual and you could possibly be hacked into via this residual body image, via it's biological imprint autonomous functions.

    So, it's not just a light..... but as you turn to investigate, the compulsion increases and as you move into more of 'knowing' it, the compulsion increases..and it happens so fast..that...well.....

    (as soon as you observe 'the light', the process begins)
    Last edited by Carmody; 22nd October 2013 at 16:54.
    Interdimensional Civil Servant

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    United States Avalon Member Calz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the white light after we die a trap?

    Quote Posted by Wind (here)
    Quote Posted by Calz (here)
    Hey I have that ... I read/loved it ... and it is sitting atop my computer desk among 3 big stacks of books.

    I was right on board with you when I read it ... dunno who or what to believe these daze (appears the illooneynaughties are winning with at least me)
    Search your feelings, padawan. We all have the answers inside ourselves... Personally I believe that everything is ultimate guided by goodness and love. Darkness is just a part of this creation. Do you think that darkness is more powerful than the Creator who is responsible for the darkness and everything that exists? I know that when my moment comes I want to go in acceptance and peace. I might fear many things in this life, but I have already died so I'm not afraid of death.
    There is balance.

    I used to feel much the same.

    Seems we chose the wrong side of the block this time ...

    Myself ... think I will do a little cruisin' around before I make any roadside decisions after death ...

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    Avalon Member Carmody's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the white light after we die a trap?

    Quote Posted by Calz (here)
    Quote Posted by Wind (here)
    Quote Posted by Calz (here)
    Hey I have that ... I read/loved it ... and it is sitting atop my computer desk among 3 big stacks of books.

    I was right on board with you when I read it ... dunno who or what to believe these daze (appears the illooneynaughties are winning with at least me)
    Search your feelings, padawan. We all have the answers inside ourselves... Personally I believe that everything is ultimate guided by goodness and love. Darkness is just a part of this creation. Do you think that darkness is more powerful than the Creator who is responsible for the darkness and everything that exists? I know that when my moment comes I want to go in acceptance and peace. I might fear many things in this life, but I have already died so I'm not afraid of death.
    There is balance.

    I used to feel much the same.

    Seems we chose the wrong side of the block this time ...

    Myself ... think I will do a little cruisin' around before I make any roadside decisions after death ...
    Remember to carry that thought with you, when you die, if that is the case.

    Your 'problem' will be that your awareness and connectivity will change dramatically in those moments. Memory and rumination will take totally different forms, at least as far as your mind perceives them now. Clarity will increase dramatically and the now moment will be all pervasive and all connected.

    Basically something more in the direction of the incoherence (to an ordered and filtered linear biologically connected mind) that Jill Bolte Taylor described in her stroke report about not having the ability to disassociate - something like that, ordered and expanded dramatically.
    Interdimensional Civil Servant

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    United States Avalon Member onawah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the white light after we die a trap?

    More from Castaneda:
    From:http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/donjuan6.html
    Quote Warriors have no life of their own. From the moment they understand the nature of awareness, they cease to be persons and the human condition is no longer part of their view. You have your duty as a warrior and nothing else is important. So do your best.
    The challenge of a warrior is to arrive at a very subtle balance of positive and negative forces. This challenge does not mean that a warrior should strive to have everything under control, but that a warrior should strive to meet any conceivable situation, the expected and the unexpected, with equal efficiency. To be perfect under perfect circumstances is to be a paper warrior.
    I will give you a formula, an incantation for times when your task is greater than your strength;

    I am already given to the power that rules my fate.
    And I cling to nothing, so I will have nothing to defend.
    I have no thoughts, so I will see.
    I fear nothing, so I will remember myself.
    Detached and at ease,
    I will dart past the Eagle to be free.

    It takes an enormity of strength to let go of the intent of everyday life. One must place one's attention on the luminous shell. A warrior must evoke intent . The glance is the secret. The eyes beckon intent .
    The reason why seeing seems to be visual is because we need the eyes to focus on intent . Our eyes can catch another aspect of intent and that's called seeing . The true function of the eyes is to be the catchers of intent .
    * * *
    You should trust yourself. On the left side there are no tears. A warrior can no longer weep. The only expression of anguish is a shiver that comes from the very depths of the universe. It is as if one of the Indescribable Force 's emanations is anguish. The warrior's shiver is infinite.
    * * *
    The act of remembering the other self is thoroughly incomprehensible. In actuality it is the act of remembering oneself, which does not stop at recollecting the interaction warriors perform in their left side awareness, but goes on to recollect every memory that the luminous body has stored from the moment of birth.
    This act of remembering, although it seems to be only associated with warriors, is something that is within the realm of every human being; every one of us can go directly to the memories of our luminosity with unfathomable results.
    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

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    United States Avalon Member Calz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the white light after we die a trap?

    Quote Posted by Carmody (here)

    Basically something more in the direction of the incoherence (to an ordered and filtered linear biologically connected mind) that Jill Bolte Taylor described in her stroke report about not having the ability to disassociate - something like that, ordered and expanded dramatically.

    Amazing vid ... highly recommended to anyone who has not already seen it.

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  23. Link to Post #92
    United States Avalon Member Calz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the white light after we die a trap?

    Quote Posted by onawah (here)

    More from Castaneda:


    Sorry to add to any confusion.

    I loved Castaneda for much of my life.

    One of my dear friends and most "advanced" I have come into contact with suggest (to their own great surprise) was that it was all a fraud.

    I dunno???

    Another book (series) ... another personal take on things.

    Another well respected and beloved hero of the "new age".

    Again ... ... just passing along something of a "personal experience ... at least 2nd hand".

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    Scotland Avalon Member Bongo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the white light after we die a trap?

    Quote Posted by Roisin (here)
    As above, so below. We create our own reality. Whatever you BELIEVE wrt to what happens when we pass over.... it WILL happen or be there.

    If you believe that white like is a trap but go into it anyway, it will still be a trap.
    For others who believe that that white like leads us to paradise, that's where they will go when they enter it.
    People tend to forget that when we agree to enter this universe we are bound by the rules of it. The rule of agreement comes in to play. One of the workarounds is getting someone to agree to be controlled then the controllers are not breaking any of the rules of the universe or they would create karma for themselves. When the agreement is made the controllers can set up the light after death so that it reels you in like a fish to be processed for further use after this life is done. If you agreed even under duress it is still an active agreement, so belief its self will not create which ever outcome you believe because the controllers have already created it before you came to this life so that happens to you once you die. Not everyone has agreed to be controlled by these controllers but lots have. This is why aliens abduct indigo children, they are uncontrolled and free so they convince them that they (The aliens) are not a threat, ask them to perform tasks and help the child till trust is built up then after that they steer them (by the indigos own agreement) away from their objective of waking up the human race. That then traps them in this game we are in, under their control. This may paint a negative picture but awareness is key, you didn't come here just to experience the good you came here to experience both good and bad with no judgement attached to each so that balance can be maintained and much will be learnt. In the end you will get out of the trap one way or another, hopefully sooner rather than later.

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  27. Link to Post #94
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    Default Re: Is the white light after we die a trap?

    The light will be what ever you allow it to be.

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    United States Avalon Member Calz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the white light after we die a trap?

    Quote Posted by sheme (here)
    The light will be what ever you allow it to be.
    Cool.

    So if I personally allow the light to vanquish the darkness universally wide ... it will be so???

    Ah ... what was I thinking???


    Hey everyone ... Miller time ...


    Last edited by Calz; 22nd October 2013 at 17:57.

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    Default Re: Is the white light after we die a trap?

    Quote Posted by Calz (here)
    Cool.

    So if I personally allow the light to vanquish the darkness universally wide ... it will be so???

    Ah ... what was I thinking???


    Hey everyone ... Miller time ...
    I have to wonder.....if there we days like that....with all those men in battle, where did they all go the washroom?
    and
    Who made all them lunch?

    *smiles*

    Movies have come a long way since the 1950's

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    Default Re: Is the white light after we die a trap?

    I was aware of that rumor, but I didn't buy it because the teachings themselves were so profound and real.
    Eventually, whether Don Juan Matus existed or not became a moot point for me precisely because of that.
    But later, a good friend told me about a friend of his who attended some workshops presented by members of Castaneda's band of warriors.
    He had experiences that assured him that the teachings and the lineage are quite genuine, and that Don Juan does indeed exist.
    I have personally had experiences that confirmed information I found in the teachings,
    For me, a good way to confirm the validity of a teaching is to see if there are teachings from different sources that reflect the same truth in a different guise.
    The wording may be different, but basically the reality of what is being described is the same, if we have the wit to recognize it.
    Quote Posted by Calz (here)
    Quote Posted by onawah (here)

    More from Castaneda:


    Sorry to add to any confusion.

    I loved Castaneda for much of my life.

    One of my dear friends and most "advanced" I have come into contact with suggest (to their own great surprise) was that it was all a fraud.

    I dunno???

    Another book (series) ... another personal take on things.

    Another well respected and beloved hero of the "new age".

    Again ... ... just passing along something of a "personal experience ... at least 2nd hand".
    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

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  34. Link to Post #98
    United States Avalon Member johnf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the white light after we die a trap?

    This really is a great thread.
    I have had a few obe/nde experiences.
    I did not encounter any beings, remembering of my life experience,
    or any past lives.
    I experienced a light, but it did not feel blinding at all.
    It was golden colored, not white.
    This vast energy was the only thing I knew about, or "remembered".
    I experienced a vast infinite space with a tendency to focus inward within that space, and perceive a very
    subtle sense of a self there, there was a very large sense of being that tended to turn into beings, then relaxed.
    There is a tendency where contemplating this basic energy to see a lot of power in it.
    I think that there are lots of types of beings that like to try to own it and control it.
    This white light that so many get excited or fearful about seems to be something that is focused on giving certain forms to the more expansive energy of being.

    The tendency to think less of ourselves in the face of this awesome infinite sea of being can lead to any number of rash decisions and compulsions, our time here is an opportunity to experience the consequences of those things.
    Any fear about this compulsion is just more distraction, and like all the others it comes from within me.

    For me the most interesting comment in here is this one by Agape.

    Quote Posted by Agape (here)


    White light or not .., follow the Elders advice and don't get trapped . Human dimension is but one of many surrounding us , and further you get they are going to be more complicated , not less .

    There's a truth in that statement ..for people who expect to move to world with less complications after they quit here , everyone has to pass through these vast dimensions of consciousness, light, and love , formless worlds , almost everyone that is, yes it's a trap .
    Even the oldest teachings say formless dimensions are trap . Even if you are there for infinity of your perceptional existence , you will feel called back by your 'purpose' .
    I suppose the more peace and ease I can achieve around ideas of am I good enough, or am I doing enough
    will allow me to take on more complicated tasks, and that problem will become less of a distraction.
    A being of absolute simplicity inside can deal with anything on the outside is the thought that I am left with now.


    jf
    "I am fascinated by religion. (That's a completely different thing from believing in it!)" Douglas Adams

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    Avalon Member Carmody's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the white light after we die a trap?

    Quote Posted by Calz (here)
    Quote Posted by sheme (here)
    The light will be what ever you allow it to be.
    Cool.

    So if I personally allow the light to vanquish the darkness universally wide ... it will be so???

    Ah ... what was I thinking???


    Hey everyone ... Miller time ...


    you are a being that is shaped by the will of self organization, scope of awareness, and projection of energies. Like the fish, you require a form of self organization..and flow. You are actively formed and alive. To cease..is to not be.

    'The shark must move forward', and so must you.

    What level of consciousness of environment and self is attached to such things, is up to you.
    Interdimensional Civil Servant

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    Avalon Member sdv's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the white light after we die a trap?

    Quote Posted by Ellisa (here)
    Caiz-- I think it's because no one knows what happens after death, except the obvious, that is we cease to be- we are no longer a functioning being because our brain has stopped working, forever and completely. Perhaps we can derive some comfort in the thought that we live in the memories of others who knew us, either personally or in our deeds. Personally I find that the notion that I have one go at life of any sort makes me treasure the life i have, and helps me to appreciate the fact that I am alive. I also personally find that I am happy to contemplate the notion that one day what is left of me will return to the stardust of which everything is made, but maybe that is a romantic fiction too.

    No one knows about life after death, but neither do we know about life before birth. You could wonder where was the essential 'you' before birth? But sometimes the truth is simple. i think we are born- we live- we die!

    As for the 'white light'. I think it has been recognised to be a symptom of the failing brain closing down, though not all people who have NDE actually see it.
    NDE research tends to focus on those experiences that support a belief, so if 52% of people who experience clinical death do not have an NDE, this is ignored and the 48% are used as evidence that there is life (consciousness and the ability to have experiences) after death, and so on.

    I have been gathering material for research on stories about life after death as channeled by those in the spirit world (the more I read, the more complicated the subject becomes!). Putting aside, but not ignoring, skeptical questions about whether these stories come from spirit or from the person who is channeling, I am finding a lot of interesting information to digest and summarise. Notably, these stories do not report any experience of a tunnel or a bright white light. This might be an indication that these stories come from the channeler as the texts I have found are all pre 1950 when NDEs were very rare as resuscitation from clinical death was not as common as it is today. Thus, if the tunnel and white light are phenomena of the dying brain, then this would not have been known then. However, if the experiences in NDES are a phenomena of the dying brain, then why do all people who experience clinical death not experience this and why do not all people who experience NDES experience the phenomena of a tunnel and a white light? The hypothesis that the white light is interference from aliens may explain the flaws in the other hypotheses (that this is a phenomena of the dying brain and that this is the portal to the spiritual world, as most of the evidence, as in reported experiences, do not support these hypotheses).

    As you can see, this research is a fascinating enquiry! I started in the hopes of writing a book, but the more I read, the more questions I have and the more links I find that require more research.

    Basically, my emerging belief is that if we do not continue to live after physical death (live as in have consciousness and the ability to experience) then we won't know and thus no suffering or unhappiness can come from ceasing to live (if there is no life, then there is no suffering). However, if we do continue to live after physical death, then stories that come from channelers, NDES, religious texts, and so on indicate that we should prepare ourselves otherwise there will be suffering, which lasts a very long time. There seems to be no harm, to me, to prepare yourself by how you live before physical death (and the rules for this basically are rules that create the conditions to alleviate or avoid suffering for self and others).
    Sandie
    Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. (Carl Sagan)

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