At the Vatican, Up Against the World

[MorningSong]

I just heard about this:

French Church to reword 'blasphemous' Lord's Prayer
AFP
October 15, 2013 1:33 PM


Paris (AFP) - For nearly half a century, French Catholics have been reciting a version of the Lord's Prayer that could be considered blasphemous, the country's bishops have concluded after years of debate.

In a ruling long advocated by traditionalists and with implications for other-language versions of the prayer, the bishops have approved a new edition of the French-language bible which will include a revised wording of one of the prayer's best-known lines, "Lead us not into temptation."

The existing French version of that line reads, "Et ne nous soumets pas à la tentation", which translates as "Do not submit us to temptation."

This has long been controversial because of the possibility of interpreting it in a way that suggests God has the power to make people succumb to the temptation of sin -- contradicting most orthodox Christian theology which holds that He is infinitely and unchangeably good.

In the revised formulation, to be included in new bibles published on November 22, the line will read "Et ne nous laisse pas entrer en tentation" or "Let us not enter into temptation."

The change was authorised by the Vatican in July along with the rest of a new translation of the bible into French from the original texts, which were written in a number of different languages. The task, involving 70 linguistic and theological experts, has taken 17 years to complete.

The current version of the Lord's Prayer has been used in France since 1966.

Ironically, the disputed wording was the result of an attempt to agree on a common version for both Catholic and Protestant churches. France's small Protestant congregations however never adopted the phrase, opting instead for "Let us not enter into temptation."

http://news.yahoo.com/french-church-...173309950.html

[giovonni]

Thanks Aileen ...

Let us all not enter into that Gaul temptation.

[giovonni]

Via The Schwartz Report

Conservative Catholics Question Pope Francis’s Approach

"This is the third story I have seen about Pope Francis that suggests we are going to see change in Roman Catholic Church. What is interesting is that in blind voting an element within the Cardinals that seeks reform is revealed. But the impulse is resisted by the institutional culture. Look at John XXIII and the last two popes. We are going to see this trend play out over the next several years."

Stephan A. Schwartz


MICHELLE BOORSTEIN and ELIZABETH TENETY - The Washington Post

Rattled by Pope Francis’s admonishment to Catholics not to be 'obsessed” by doctrine, his stated reluctance to judge gay people and his apparent willingness to engage just about anyone - including atheists - many conservative Catholics are doing what only recently seemed unthinkable:

They are openly questioning the pope...

More here

[Roisin]

This new pope is evangelizing directly to the people and telling them what many of them want to hear in order to draw them back into the fold regardless that some aspects of his message are a dramatic departure from the Church's traditional views on those issues that he has directly or indirectly addressed so far. He's not only doing this to bolster up membership in the US and Europe, but to prepare the Church for the major role it's going to play in the NWO. That we are seeing this whole scenario unfolding before our eye's at an unprecedented pace on a daily basis now, should be telling us that major changes on a global level are just around the corner. If you want to monitor just how close we are getting to that point, then keep your eye on the pope and the Vatican.

[Snowflower]

Posted by giovonni (here)
Via The Schwartz Report

Conservative Catholics Question Pope Francis’s Approach

"This is the third story I have seen about Pope Francis that suggests we are going to see change in Roman Catholic Church. What is interesting is that in blind voting an element within the Cardinals that seeks reform is revealed. But the impulse is resisted by the institutional culture. Look at John XXIII and the last two popes. We are going to see this trend play out over the next several years."

Stephan A. Schwartz


MICHELLE BOORSTEIN and ELIZABETH TENETY - The Washington Post

Rattled by Pope Francis’s admonishment to Catholics not to be 'obsessed” by doctrine, his stated reluctance to judge gay people and his apparent willingness to engage just about anyone - including atheists - many conservative Catholics are doing what only recently seemed unthinkable:

They are openly questioning the pope...

More here

the link took me to some kind of post office page.

[giovonni]

the link should work ...

Posted by giovonni (here)
Via The Schwartz Report

Conservative Catholics Question Pope Francis’s Approach

"This is the third story I have seen about Pope Francis that suggests we are going to see change in Roman Catholic Church. What is interesting is that in blind voting an element within the Cardinals that seeks reform is revealed. But the impulse is resisted by the institutional culture. Look at John XXIII and the last two popes. We are going to see this trend play out over the next several years."

Stephan A. Schwartz


MICHELLE BOORSTEIN and ELIZABETH TENETY - The Washington Post

Rattled by Pope Francis’s admonishment to Catholics not to be 'obsessed” by doctrine, his stated reluctance to judge gay people and his apparent willingness to engage just about anyone - including atheists - many conservative Catholics are doing what only recently seemed unthinkable:

They are openly questioning the pope...

More here

[giovonni]

will Pope Francis be the one who brings the final disclosure ?

Aliens And The Vatican 2013



"May 2008, Funes gave an interview to the Vatican’s L’Osservatore Romano newspaper saying that the existence of intelligent extraterrestrials posed no problems to Catholic theology. The conference itself was officially convened by the Vatican's Pontifical Academy of Sciences, chaired by its religious leader Bishop Marcelo Sanchez Sorondo, and was held on private Vatican grounds from November 6-10. Together with Funes’ 2008 interview and subsequent public comments by him, the conference demonstrates a welcome openness by the Vatican on the possibility and implications of extraterrestrial life. The Vatican’s openness to discussion of extraterrestrial life is no accident. It is part of an openness policy secretly adopted by the United Nations in February 2008. In fact, the Vatican is playing a leading role in preparing the world for extraterrestrial disclosure."

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=V0Y1Qg10pys

Source UFO SIGHTINGS DAILY

[dianna]

The Museum Of Souls Trapped In Purgatory




... if this museum was located in New Jersey, I know it would have become a yearly field trip destination for us in catholic school ... purgatory scared me more than hell!

Via Atlas Obscura, in Italy is a famed collector’s assortment of artifacts bearing the physical imprint of souls trapped in agony attempting to reach our world:

Located on the banks of the Tiber, the tiny century-old Piccolo Museo Del Purgatorio, or “Museum of the Holy Souls in Purgatory,” holds a collection of bibles, prayer books, tabletops, and articles of clothing said to have been singed by the hands of souls in purgatory.

According to Catholic belief, the soul is stranded in purgatory until it atones for its sins. The scorched handprints and other burn-marks collected in this museum are believed to be the product of souls begging their earth-bound loved ones to pray harder.



Victor Jouet, collector and French missionary, was supposedly inspired to build this purgatorial museum after a fire destroyed a portion of the original Chiesa del Sacro Cuore del Suffragio, leaving behind the scorched image of a face that he believed to be a trapped soul.

http://disinfo.com/2013/10/museum-so...ped-purgatory/


The Purgatory Museum

A rectangular slab of wood bears two burn marks--one in the shape of a cross, the other resembles a human hand. Nearby are other items--a shirt, a prayer book, a pillow--all with burns that look like they've been made by fiery fingers.

I'm in Rome's smallest and strangest museum, the Piccolo Museo del Purgatorio, the Little Museum of Purgatory. Housed in the church of Santo Cuore del Suffragio, which is dedicated to relieving the souls tortured in Purgatory, it stands barely ten minutes' walk from the Vatican. Small it certainly is, just one long case along a single wall, but the questions it raises are at the center of an increasingly acrimonious debate that's dividing Western civilization.

Purgatory is a halfway point between Heaven and Hell, a place for the souls of people who lived good enough lives to avoid eternal damnation, but not quite good enough to join the angels. In Purgatory these souls suffer torment for enough time for their sins to be forgiven, a sort of celestial spanking with no Child Protective Services to intervene.

But there is hope. Prayers by the living can reduce a soul's time in Purgatory. Faithful relatives offer up prayers or even pay for entire masses to be said for the departed. Others neglect this spiritual duty, and it is said that sometimes a tormented soul will return to Earth and ask for help.

During the seventeenth to nineteenth centuries these visitations happened fairly often and took on a common pattern. A spirit would appear to a relative or friend, reveal it was in torment, and ask for prayers to shorten its time in the cleansing fires. As proof that the spirit had been there, it would touch its burning hand to a nearby object. These events were one of many types of miracles common in the Catholic world such as apparitions of the Virgin Mary and bleeding statues of Jesus.

The Purgatory Museum collects these soul burns and tells their story. The hand and cross that I am seeing was left on a table by Fr. Panzini, former Abbot Olivetano of Mantua. In 1731 he appeared to Venerable Mother Isabella Fornari, abbess of the Poor Clares of the Monastery of St. Francis in Todi. He appeared to her on November 1, 1731 (All Saints Day) and said he was suffering in Purgatory. To prove his claim, he touched his flaming hand to her table and etched a burning cross in it too. He also touched her sleeve and left scorches and bloodstains.

[giovonni]

well if he said it ... its got to be true ...


Pope Francis States Ideological Christians Have An “Illness"

Go here

[giovonni]

Seemingly adamant and determined in following and pursuing with his former namesakes (St. Francis) crusading zeal ...



Pope wants to step up fight against modern slavery

AFP - Pope Francis wants action against modern forms of slavery including forced labour and prostitution, the Vatican said Monday after a meeting of experts called by the pontiff to debate the problem.

Dozens of academics, doctors and clerics were hosted by the Vatican to discuss issues close to the pope's heart, including the struggle against organ trafficking and people smuggling.

"Some experts believe human trafficking will overtake drug and arms trafficking in a decade, becoming the most lucrative criminal activity in the world," Marcelo Sanchez Sorondo, chancellor of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, told reporters.

Sorondo said the pope was heavily invested in a subject he knows well from his years in Latin America and had even invited two experts on human trafficking that he knows from Buenos Aires.

Further meetings are planned in 2014 and 2015.

Participants said one of the worst and most worrying forms of slavery in Latin America is the use of children and adolescents as drug dealers.

Jose Maria Simon Castellvi, head of the International Federation of Catholic Medical Associations, also stressed the importance of "zero tolerance" against prostitution saying it was linked to drugs, mafia violence and tax fraud.

source page

[giovonni]

From the BBC / Vatican launches world survey on modern family life

[giovonni]

some heavy stuff ...

Pulling back the veil from Pope Francis and the Vatican ...

Alfred Lambremont Webre and Kevin Annett

Topics also included Vatican joins with China, Putin for world currency & power

Exopolitics Related Article Link Here

Published on Nov 14, 2013

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=D7e8ix3W8t0

[giovonni]

a born again vs a jesuit ...

Sarah Palin Criticizes "Liberal" Pope Francis

Published on Nov 20, 2013

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yd0o6xn1g4g

[MorningSong]

Looks like someome got put in the cool-out corner....

Sarah Palin apologizes for remarks on Pope Francis
On Politics
Catalina Camia, USA TODAY 11:09 a.m. EST November 15, 2013

Sarah Palin apologized for her recent comments about Pope Francis and what she viewed as his "liberal statements."

"It was not my intention to be critical of Pope Francis," Palin wrote Thursday on Facebook, in reference to an interview earlier this week on CNN. "I was reminding viewers that we need to do our own homework on news subjects, and I hadn't done mine yet on the Pope's recent comments as reported by the media."

Palin, the 2008 GOP vice presidential nominee, said Tuesday on CNN that Pope Francis has made "some statements that to me sound kind of liberal, has taken me aback, has kind of surprised me." She didn't specify her concerns, but she added that "unless I really dig deep into what his messaging is and do my own homework, I'm not going to just trust what I hear in the media."

Pope Francis surprised many people when he said the Catholic Church has been "obsessed" with issues such as gay marriage and abortion and sometimes "locked itself up in small things." His comments were made in an interview published in September by several Jesuit magazines.

In her Facebook post, Palin said she's been assured by Catholic friends and family that Pope Francis "is as sincere and faithful a shepherd of his church."

"I apologize for not being clearer in my response, thus opening the door to critical media that does what it does best in ginning up controversy," she said.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/onpoli...ments/3574167/

[giovonni]

thanks Aileen ...

In her Facebook post, Palin said she's been assured by Catholic friends and family that Pope Francis "is as sincere and faithful a shepherd of his church."

For me this statement speaks volumes ... Even more than anything contained in her original stated comment ...

If you know what i mean ...

Post note ~ though for some devotees the great schism (divide) continues ?

[gigha]

So sad!! WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT

IQALUIT, Nunavut -- A witness at the trial of a priest facing dozens of sexual abuse charges involving Inuit children testified Monday that the girls in her community were forced to devise a foul way to stop him.

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/witness...#ixzz2lLK189mO

[onawah]

I just tried to go back a page to page 31 of this thread and got a Google Chrome Malware alert saying that zengardner had inserted Malware on that page or something to that effect.
What's going on?
I've been getting a lot of "the server is busy, try again later" messages too on Avalon.

[giovonni]

Posted by onawah (here)
I just tried to go back a page to page 31 of this thread and got a Google Chrome Malware alert saying that zengardner had inserted Malware on that page or something to that effect.
What's going on?
I've been getting a lot of "the server is busy, try again later" messages too on Avalon.

Note i am not having any problems nor messages via outside sources while navigating on this thread or forum...

May ~ i suggest you inquire in regards to this on the Forum: Forum Technical Q&A for members thread for answers or contact an administrator ?

Blessings Gio

[onawah]

That's about how I feel about it too.

Posted by giovonni (here)
As your posted article states ...araucaria ... could be ...

Francis's (papacy) Is either the greatest Ruse...

Or the worst thing to happen to the Church's patriarchy since the days of Martin Luther and the Reformation ?

Gio, I saw this message at the bottom of Dianna's post #602 on page 31 of this thread:
"Last edited by Paul; Today at 01:59. Reason: Remove zengardner.com link causing security warning"
It looks like there was something there that Paul removed, so I am able to access that page now.
Thanks Paul!

[giovonni]

Saint Peter's bones: Vatican exhumes old argument with plan to show 'relics'
For the first time in nearly 2,000 years, fragments of bone held to be those of the apostle
will go on public display.. Go here


Related ...



The Bones of St. Peter ?