Beyond Spin and Bull****

[Mike]

Posted by CurtisW (here)

Posted by Chinaski (here)
. Being involved in the alt community, especially as a whistleblower, is an exercise in catch-22 madness......

I'm as sick of all this bullsh#t as you are man. Can't stand it. This field of alternative research is often emotional and intellectual quicksand. Staying with the metaphor, I can only suggest moving incredibly slowly and deliberately, and analyzing each n every morsel of info before making any deliberate moves.

I think you're right. And I don't envy whistleblowers in the slightest. They're in deadly serious territory, for just the reasons you've said.

Even apart from having to muster the courage to go public with good info, they have many other things to consider, not least of which is their own personal safety.

I just wish some would be willing to admit they were totally wrong. It happens quite a bit, after all. And it seems mighty rare for an environment where 99% of intel/forecasts end up being totally off.

It would be refreshing for them to say, after they made a huge ridiculous statement that turned out to be false, 'you know what, that thing I said. Yeah. Turns out that was bull****. XYZ gave me that info and I didn't look at it and I got duped.'

Or better yet, 'yeah, my analysis was totally wrong. I didn't factor in ABC, and I was way off. Here's what I'll do differently next time.'

A lot would be forgiven if that happened.

Actually, credit where credit is due, Karen Hudes did recently back off some bad information she got re: rogue comets.

That's a trend I hope will continue.

a little honesty would be nice and yet, I don't view whistleblowers as individuals who require our forgiveness. if we drink the Kool-Aid, we're responsible for the indigestion, right? but I won't get tangled up in semantics here; I see what you're saying and agree entirely.

I do worry sometimes that we regard these folks with excessive reverence. almost as parental figures in a sense. and when we feel betrayed by them, we start threads and demand explanations, apologies, and so forth. how many times have we seen this on Avalon? we expect them to be perfect. poor Bill: not too long ago everyone was demanding an apology from him - right around the "Charles" saga, you couldn't blink without someone demanding he apologize for this or that. it was absurd. and all he was doing - like many of our whistleblowers - was passing along information that he thought might be pertinent. I get concerned when whistleblower information is found to be faulty or not wholly truthful, and a member of the alt community then makes the nuance-deficient leap to declaring the messenger intentionally deceptive or CIA funded or whatever. we must first look at the *intent* of the person coming forward before we hang them here.

Raf is right in the sense that, without drama or bullsh#t, there isn't a whole lot to talk about. virtually everything we discuss is conjecture, which gets pretty damn tiresome. trying to locate anything definitive is like grasping at shadows. it's almost as frustrating as all the bullsh#t you've referenced above. I mean, how many times can we have the same conversation? whether consciously or not, inevitably someone will snap and start some crazy thread about Hillary Clinton having 3 tits or something about Barack Obama actually being a reptile from the lower 4th dimension. boredom is the very worst kind of disease! and people will go to the end of their sanity to cure it! the problem is, when you're drowning in outrageousness, everything is fair game; you lose relativity. and it's these cracks where these dubious bullsh#tters sneak in and start diarrheaing all over the forum.

[Curt]

Posted by TargeT (here)
... well I find it no surprise that a lot of information is not well vetted due to it just taking extra effort.

I'm not sure if the phenomenon (lack of vetting, unintentional disinfo spreading) is a desire to be "first" to bring news/theory to a group/community, or a desire for some sort of notoriety (probably related to the first part of this sentence) or just down right being lazy.

I know I personally have glossed over researching on topics due to the "daunting task" of sifting through information that doesn't hold my interest well, and a few times had to correct myself after the fact when I discovered I had passed on bad info (due to the first part of this sentence).

Good point. I've done it, too. And I'm sure through laziness I'll do it again. It's good to be honest about this.

We all have our areas of interest and expertise. I think even if everyone dug into their own areas and vetted info in those areas, we'd all be better off.

And that already happens quite a bit.

People with expertise in the sciences on PA are really good about doing this. We could all take a leaf from their book with respect to covering our zones of interest.

There is a culture emerging here that wants to get past sensational silliness and move onto the next stage.

That's what Raf is talking about, I think. They're here asking tough questions and holding their ground, trying to read what the next step is. And they're doing it Respectfully.

They deserve our respect and support. Because they do provide a filtering function.

They move a lot of junk out of other people's paths.

[Curt]

Posted by Chinaski (here)
....a little honesty would be nice and yet, I don't view whistleblowers as individuals who require our forgiveness. if we drink the Kool-Aid, we're responsible for the indigestion, right? but I won't get tangled up in semantics here; I see what you're saying and agree entirely.

Good point. I agree with you. The whole post is right on, but this is a key point.

They don't owe us apologies. That's not a healthy dynamic.

But, as you've said, it would be cool if they could be honest about being wrong.

[lunaflare]

Thanks for your posts and here are my thoughts this day.
People- whistle-blowers-identify with their stories which form from either personal experiences or imagined conjecture (fantasies). There is a fine line between both realities.
What is the intention behind this public sharing? is perhaps the question to ask. But how can one truly know. There really is no solid "Truth" as reality is forming from our belief systems. I don't even fully understand what I just wrote. People spout the word, "discern" and offer the caveat of doing one's own research and not gobble every detail as Truth. Yes, these are guidelines. Often our beliefs and stories become solid to form a "Life Path"... and perhaps gives meaning to a seemingly meaningless existence. But I don't really know.

Perhaps this sounds annoying to many, but I focus less on the negative these days. It is draining and I too feel weary. I am not seeking a, Life Path. There is still beauty in the world and kindness in people. Sure, my mind is still entertained by theories of interdimensionals, annunaki, our origins, Hopi Blue Star prophesies etc. I have my own experiences that are out of the box, so to speak. But still, I don't really know. I do stay open as I do know there are infinite possibilities and chances are my genetics are a cocktail of varying potential life forms. Infinity is a broad spectrum.

[RMorgan]

Posted by CurtisW (here)
But, as you've said, it would be cool if they could be honest about being wrong.

I'm not talking about whistle-blowers in general, but a lot of people in the Alternative Media earn a living by being dead wrong.

David Wilcock, for instance...The man become famous thanks to his 2012 ascension exposure...Did he apologize? Of course not; He earned a lot of money and fame from his books, articles and lectures...He just said something like "I'm sure something magical will eventually happen somewhere in the future whenever it happens"...

These folks are not stupid...Did Hoagland apologize for being a crucial part of the Elenin fiasco? No...Of course not. In fact, he's just trying to spin the same story regarding ISON.

You see, apologizing, in such cases, is a mistake. Admitting that you're not a special guy, with special knowledge and special "sources" would simply finish their "careers"....Yes, brother, people are making careers out of it.

Did Kerry Cassidy ever apologize for eternally interviewing and giving media exposure to charlatans and for spinning fear-porn stories that always and invariably end up being wrong after a while? No, of course not...

This is a business. Period. Admitting failure is the last resource, used only when all other resources are exhausted. Just like in any other business.

To sum up, these folks like to spin the same things over and over and over again...and they've been wrong over and over and over again. People still buy stories told by people who were consecutively wrong, simply because by not officially admitting their mistakes through formal apologies, people still perceive them as special sources of information. Apologizing, in this case, would break up the spell and consequently end up their careers.

The same phenomena happens in politics; As an example, everybody knows that Obama has told many lies and made many mistakes; Somehow, they still accept him as a president. Now, if Obama himself admitted he was wrong and lied several times and apologized for it, his career would be over right there.

Apologizing, in some situations, negatively impacts on public opinion. It removes the line between people perceiving you as a potential liar or as an official self-admitted liar or loser.

Apologizing is officially taking self-responsibility over your own actions; It will make the public officially perceive you as responsible for whatever you've done, which in some cases may even get you arrested, like in a court of law when someone admits to be guilty.

There's a big different between people suspecting that one of these alternative media guys is a liar and a fraud and people knowing that he's a liar and a fraud because he himself admitted it indirectly through apologies...As long as people just suspect, their careers will be fine and they will still be able to spin the same stories over and over again...

[Kalamos]

..........

[Eram]

Posted by CurtisW (here)

Posted by RMorgan (here)
Hey Curt,

I'm with you, mate.

However, in fact, the forum is in a much better shape than it used to be a few years ago. Raf.

I 100% agree with you. There's no doubt in my mind things have improved substantially. People are more savvy now, and that's affected the quality. That's a big point.

Wouldn't it be fun if the whole 2012 "mass ascension" fiasco acted as a catalyst for people to really start waking up and now really pay attention to what is being fed to us?

[blufire]

I feel strongly that what often happens with whistleblower information and experiences is that it gets so dissected, rewritten, reworded and diluted with so many opinions and personal life dramas, that their core knowledge is lost in the alternative /new age shuffle, agenda and drama.

I know this is exactly is what is happening with my current threads:
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...and-Technology
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ct-as-a-child-

People need so much for me to answer questions or provide information that it is impossible for me (or I feel) to keep the information and knowledge in context.

Also, I am faced with the daunting task of accusations of being brainwashed or programmed by ‘nefarious beings’ . . . . so I think well hell . . . why even try to deliver the message when it will automatically rejected because it doesn’t fit into the current alternative/new age program or flow.

So it is very discouraging and infuriating to say the least. I have been a member of Camelot/Avalon (or lurker) from the very beginning. Anyone can review my posts on this forum or the old Avalon forum that has been archived and see exactly who I am. So anyone can get a very clear picture of who I am and what I am about, but many much rather put me in the category of shill, troll, misinfo agent solely because what I am sharing now does not ‘fit’.

So what chance does a whistleblower outside of the forum have of delivering a succinct, solid lead so we can move forward productively if we can’t even believe or support those of us directly involved in the forum family?

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Perhaps all the BS we have sorted through is just part of becoming wiser and improving intuition, a necessary part of evolution.

I have regretfully passed on to others information that I was excited about in the moment, but soon after discovered that it was BS.

No doubt that the powers that be are spreading false information in many places, including here on Project Avalon to keep all of us divided and less aware of truth. We need to learn to sort through it as part of our growing.

Much of the conspiracy information is of little interest to me now, compared to an intense interest in the past. Conspiracy information can serve a useful purpose, for a while, if it motivates people to act in ways to mitigate risk. Without action, the conspiracy information may only serve the dark side by directing our attention to all that is negative. Whatever we focus on becomes bigger. Solutions are what we need, and where I put most of my attention.

Don’t feed the reptiles.

[mountain_jim]

We have to refuse to be ‘entertained.’ We have to get our kicks another way: by carefully sifting information to find bits of truth.

I get what you are saying, but carefully sifting information to find bits of truth is my entertainment.

Being physically incarnated in 3D reality, born with no conscious memory of what came before, fighting attempted mind-molding in public schools, lied to by all levels of media, mocked by so many who have no interest or clue...

If I did not find the search for truth entertaining, I would have difficulty finding positivity in Life, and I refuse to submit to (spiritual) negativity and deep unhappyness, for what use would I then be to myself or my planet?

I have found some references to possible truth in Wilcock in the past (ebooks and books), and still entertain the possibility that Fulford might one day connect events in some way that has value, etc.

Did Dan Burisch's Camelot interviews lead toward Truth? I still don't really know, and it was that interview which led me to discover Project Camelot and later Avalon.

I have gathered from lack of interest in this forum this week that most folks here have little interest in the JFK conspiracy anymore, yet I have hopes that folks like Fetzer at VT have made real progress this week in getting us closer to the point where the MSM is finally forced to admit that the level of proof is now there for Oswald to be proven the patsy, for the CIA, LBJ, and Bush Sr. to be shown as deeply involved and certain folks still alive could and should be put on trial.

This event was when the US ceased to be a democracy and the shadow government / elite mafia / military industrial security complex gained complete control in my opinion, and getting folks to wake up to this truth would really help to wake them up to the later truths of 9/11, our totally lost constitutional rights, and so much else.

Realizing what happened to JFK early in life led me down the path of conspiracy research in search of truth, and this research was a primary source of my entertainment (in evolving my understanding of the nature of this reality.)

[seleka]

Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
Perhaps all the BS we have sorted through is just part of becoming wiser and improving intuition, a necessary part of evolution.

I have regretfully passed on to others information that I was excited about in the moment, but soon after discovered that it was BS.

No doubt that the powers that be are spreading false information in many places, including here on Project Avalon to keep all of us divided and less aware of truth. We need to learn to sort through it as part of our growing.

Much of the conspiracy information is of little interest to me now, compared to an intense interest in the past. Conspiracy information can serve a useful purpose, for a while, if it motivates people to act in ways to mitigate risk. Without action, the conspiracy information may only serve the dark side by directing our attention to all that is negative. Whatever we focus on becomes bigger. Solutions are what we need, and where I put most of my attention.

Don’t feed the reptiles.

I have been to other forums. My intuition is strong lately. I believe the percentage of avalon posters to be genuine is very high, like 94%. I see only a few that are here to derail on purpose.

I agree on the second part of that too, like in the 100 yrs of solitude book, as the guy is reading it, it is happening... we are making it by talking about it and giving it attention. Most of us that are here are awake already, so the regular articles about the 'illuminati' are very old hat... it is good we know about it, but now we know, how do we 'make it go away'? You can't because "I have met the enemy and us is them...." isn't that a famous quote? hehe. I am all for just shaking hands with the blooddrinkers and telling them the old law- do what thou wilt- lest it harm another... if they want to do the sacrifices, they should get willing participants from their own ranks. Dang I feel I went on a tangent. Going to read the OP again and come back....

[seleka]

Posted by CurtisW (here)
Personally, I don’t know anything concrete about the Jesuits and the Rothschilds and the Annunaki and the Martians and the Archons and the 4th Reich. Or whether group A is over Group B in the hierarchy. ...

I don’t know whether secret gold is going to be thrown out of vaults to the masses like turkeys on Christmas morning.

I have theories, but I don’t know.

And I don’t think 99% of the people who speak authoritatively on these subjects know either. Some are spinning tales.

Others pass along bogus information unintentionally. Some may even be coerced to do so.


Many of us here are well past the point of wanting to be entertained by stories. ...


As fun as all the speculation and stories can be, digging down deeper to find real truth would be a lot more fun.

Because as tired as I am of being bull****ted, attempts to do so only confirm my suspicion: all the spin is hiding something real.

What is it? What are its dimensions?

There are a lot of good brains here. And not just logical left-brain types, either. We have the whole spectrum.






Millions of people read this forum.

above post was edited by leaving parts out, to read the full post go to #1.

I think we know a lot of hard evidence about the annunaki, but wait, we also know that the ETs have provided the cabal with time travel technology, so those are likely plants, right? I am not sure if it is the same thing, but I often feel overwhelmed by how much I am absorbing, and trying to decide if it fits in with this or that. Some regret being awake once they find that down every rabbit hole, there are more tunnels leading in all directions and you go so far you get lost... then have a breakdown...

There is a lot of information in black and white in the form of released documents, there are people holding conferences to disclose there is a 26 mile wide mothership in our solar system. There is a lot that is concrete... and then like I said, you realize it could be just a plant. So stop thinking. relax. Why are we here?

To experience. By having a solid body we can feel things. It is not real and you can never be hurt. Do what thou wilt, lest it harm another.

But yeah, how do we know anything?
is that what this post is about?
and I agree there is an elephant in the room... sometimes we can smell it, touch its tail.. so when a describes, he says it is like a rope, when b describes it is like a giant leaf that moves... etc, but hey we are gathering the pieces, right? As we put them together, more things make sense. If I ever wonder if I am just the nutty one believing all these conspiracies are true, I watch the video of lawmakers, priests, etc worshipping a giant owl as a real human screams when the flames hit them. There is Something going on... and it being secret is the Problem, right?


EDIT: and I think I said we have to ignore them and then I said I remind myself by watching the only known video released.... I feel I am a conundrum of contradictions all the time.... this article was a good one for me.

[jagman]

A very thought provoking thread Curtis.This is why I love Avalon. I can tell this
one going to have legs.lol

[Dennis Leahy]

Great thread, Curtis! In addition to the "junk" and innuendo and conjecture that frequently get's vaulted to the top of page 1, there is the equal and opposite reality of ignoring real news.

One thing I see is the amazing ability of the powers that be and their communications channels to completely remove all of our adrenaline - our fight or flight reflex - to VERY real revelations.

Partly, they do this by a process of "ignoring to death" some critical information.

Secondly, they will pull a distraction as effective as the beautiful magician's assistant "accidentally" exposing her underwear.

Thirdly, there is an aura (I'm not sure if it is engineered psychologically or if it is organic) of disunity that guarantees that whatever the data is, it will not garner any effective action on our part. We have been rendered so independent (in areas requiring unity) that we no longer remember how to unite and act in concert.

Fourthly (is "fourthly" really a word?) there is a palpable sense of impotence - again, I'm not sure if it is organic, or if it is deliberately injected into society via social engineering. Every problem is too big, too overwhelming to tackle... "and we can't win anyway.", we whimper.

So, a huge number of people know enough about the 1913 and 1930's bankster fraud in the US to bankrupt the nation - on paper - and sell us out to the banks under the guise of the Federal Reserve... and most people shrug their shoulders.

It might have taken a decade to finally view the Zapruder film and watch JFK's head go "back, and to the left", but once we did, we allowed the burgeoning science of psychological manipulation to render us pathetically inept - even though we know the killers simply melted right back into the US government and its intelligence factions.

A huge number of people recognize a false flag like 9/11 for what it is... and nothing is done about it or about the Middle East slaughter of a million people in its wake.

It becomes widely known that the US government officially endorses torture and imprisons hundreds of prisoners as terrorists that we know are not terrorists. We mutter.

Laws such as The Patriot Act and NDAA get passed to allow US citizens to join the list of everyone else on the planet that the US government wants "disappeared" or killed to be disappeared or killed. We order a tall latte and check the football scores using our iPhones.

Major financial frauds, such as the "Libor Scandal" get defused and distracted to death by some major saber rattling at a foreign nation - and we check our calendars to see which holiday decorations to get out next.

The police departments across the US become militarized, acquire war machinery, tie in with an unprecedented surveillance grid. The DHS silently becomes a full military branch, on domestic soil. We buy silver coins, bags of beans, and boxes of bullets...then go back to watching Dancing with the Stars, NASCAR, and the latest Hollywood blockbuster.

Rumors are confirmed by whistleblower testimony - with backing documents - that virtually everyone on Earth is being spied upon, constantly. Avalonians congratulate ourselves for "knowing" this prior to Snowden, the gullible half of the population is officially instructed that Snowden is a traitor and that the "intelligence" saves us from terrorism. The other half make multiple posts on facebook, interspersed with photos of cute kittens and balls of yarn.

Someone dedicates nearly 2 years to study how the Elite have gained control of the US government, and offers what is still the only comprehensive plan and strategy for citizens to take control of our own governance - and nearly three years later, only 150 people even bother to sign a document calling for a peaceful "takeover" of the US government by ordinary citizens. But hey, did you see the night-vision video proving the existence of lights moving in the night sky!

Dennis

[seleka]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
... The other half make multiple posts on facebook, interspersed with photos of cute kittens and balls of yarn.

Dennis

Dennis- you hit it out of the park for clarity for me. and I post those kitten and yarn pics to stay off the lists

[Carmody]

It's good that you are all upset. Upset enough to go into breakdown. As that is the time it finally works -at the breaking point and the breaking point alone.

Astrology is inextricably tied to the human condition, of the collective and the individual, which tells you a lot about how the fundamentals of reality work, as flow, in time. If that, as a well known fact in astrology does not stop you cold in your tracks, in all potential answer and question sets, then you really have not been paying attention. The predictable patterning of planetary alignment... predicting human life flow and individual projection of self? Yes, and deadly serious and provable - all one has to do is look into it.

Ison is astrology in act and flow... and Ison is now closest to the sun. Interesting how that works.

If truth cannot be found then the size or scope of the question set is incorrect in some fashion. Either the data is incomplete, or the incorrect question is being asked, or some combination of both. The more impossible the answer is to find the more basic or fundamental the error in the formation of the question.

[mosquito]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)

Someone dedicates nearly 2 years to study how the Elite have gained control of the US government, and offers what is still the only comprehensive plan and strategy for citizens to take control of our own governance - and nearly three years later, only 150 people even bother to sign a document calling for a peaceful "takeover" of the US government by ordinary citizens. But hey, did you see the night-vision video proving the existence of lights moving in the night sky!

Dennis

Americans take note. If you don't know what Dennis is talking about here, I'm sure he'll gladly point you in the right direction.

Good thread Curtis.

Another aspect of the problem is that the moment people become aware that they have been lied to, there is a tendency to believe anything which is not that original lie. Confusion reigns and the real truth (if there is such a thing) becomes even further obfuscated.

Another thing is that many people, when they learn the truth, believe that all we need to do is communicate this to the masses, and change will come within a few days. If only it were that simple. Unfortunately, the majority of people don't want to know that their entire belief system is false, because that's what it boils down to - it's not just a matter of a cover-up here, a lie there; nearly everything we have been told about our history - global, national, personal, is untrue.

That said, I'm also tired of the same old sh*t from the same old people; why is Hoagland, for example, still given credibility ?

[gripreaper]

Ha, not true! The "EVENT" is right around the corner, all of the evil cabal will soon be arrested and put on trial, soon a global jubilee wipes out all debt, soon the Federal Reserve is disbanded and we go to sound currency, soon all the gold is returned to its rightful owners, soon all GMO's, chemtrails, and fluoridated water are stopped, soon free energy is released, soon the collateral accounts are distributed to the people, soon we all get millions, soon the galactic federation comes and saves us, plants a nuclear submarine land dart at one of our famous monuments, and soon we all get a galactic joyride in a limousine to a mothership!

I know this is all true because I saw it on the internet!

[AutumnW]

Chinaski, I take great exception to your disputing that Hillary Clinton has three tits. Why, she has two of her own plus the boob she married. Other than that I agree with everything you wrote!

[turiya]

Posted by Carmody (here)
If truth cannot be found then the size or scope of the question set is incorrect in some fashion. Either the data is incomplete, or the incorrect question is being asked, or some combination of both. The more impossible the answer is to find the more basic or fundamental the error in the formation of the question.

The truth of the matter (and please don't quote me) is that finding truth is not at all possible. On the contrary, truth will find you, whenever you get out of the way, and stop making the effort.


turiya