How to reduce the human population ???

[Bright Garlick]

So naste - regarding the first line - how about the issue of deforestation, soil destruction and soil loss, phosphorous depletion, extensive mining of the planets sources and subsequent destruction of ecosystems and sacred sites, waste disposal, biodiversity loss, acidification of the oceans, rise in ethnic clashes, the rise in emotional problems especially among those living in densely populated regions, the fragmentation of families, growth of monocultures in food, animals and trees, water supplies particuarly for urban populations, pollution of land, sea and air, displacement of refugees among many other issues related to overpopulation ? Yes these all have a relation to "utilization" but they all exacerbated by rising population.

You should not be so quick to sweep the population crisis under the carpet, with a single interpretation of the problem - utilitilization. Just like the folks who argue we could all fit into Texas. It isn't always about how things are done, it is often about the dynamics of how things relate and the relationships that they cause and exacerbate by changing a single variable - in this case, the number of humans relative to every other living thing on planet Earth.

This problem stands above every other man made problem on Earth and must be seen honestly.

I agree that a materialistic focus is the root of our problems. What does man need for a fulfilled life ? But mind control is only a small part of the problem. Who controls the individual mind but the individual himself ?

Coming back to your first line. Yes, I agree with that from one perspective. Man's ignorance is the real cause of Earth's problems.

Posted by naste.de.lumina (here)
The problems of planet Earth are not caused by overpopulation.
It's the same as wanting to remove all the oil on the planet to stop the pollution emitted by machinery pollutants.
The problem is not oil, but how it is utilized.
The problem is not overpopulation but as it is satisfied in their basic needs, production and distribution of wealth.
For every human incarnate there are 9 disembodied spirits.
How can these spirits will evolve if they can not incarnate?
But the power can not (or will ) want see this basic.
The fact that we are evolving spirits.
Technology to ensure a balanced planet exists.
Detachment from the material power is what we need.
If not expand consciousness and look at the big picture, it ends up with these materialistic ideas that always end in genocide.
It's so clear to see.
I'm sorry, but in my opinion this issue is based on mind control.

[naste.de.lumina]

Posted by Bright Garlick (here)
So naste - regarding the first line - how about the issue of deforestation, soil destruction and soil loss, phosphorous depletion, extensive mining of the planets sources and subsequent destruction of ecosystems and sacred sites, waste disposal, biodiversity loss, acidification of the oceans, rise in ethnic clashes, the rise in emotional problems especially among those living in densely populated regions, the fragmentation of families, growth of monocultures in food, animals and trees, water supplies particuarly for urban populations, pollution of land, sea and air, displacement of refugees among many other issues related to overpopulation ? Yes these all have a relation to "utilization" but they all exacerbated by rising population.

You should not be so quick to sweep the population crisis under the carpet, with a single interpretation of the problem - utilitilization. Just like the folks who argue we could all fit into Texas. It isn't always about how things are done, it is often about the dynamics of how things relate and the relationships that they cause and exacerbate by changing a single variable - in this case, the number of humans relative to every other living thing on planet Earth.

This problem stands above every other man made problem on Earth and must be seen honestly.

I agree that a materialistic focus is the root of our problems. What does man need for a fulfilled life ? But mind control is only a small part of the problem. Who controls the individual mind but the individual himself ?

Coming back to your first line. Yes, I agree with that from one perspective. Man's ignorance is the real cause of Earth's problems.

Posted by naste.de.lumina (here)
The problems of planet Earth are not caused by overpopulation.
It's the same as wanting to remove all the oil on the planet to stop the pollution emitted by machinery pollutants.
The problem is not oil, but how it is utilized.
The problem is not overpopulation but as it is satisfied in their basic needs, production and distribution of wealth.
For every human incarnate there are 9 disembodied spirits.
How can these spirits will evolve if they can not incarnate?
But the power can not (or will ) want see this basic.
The fact that we are evolving spirits.
Technology to ensure a balanced planet exists.
Detachment from the material power is what we need.
If not expand consciousness and look at the big picture, it ends up with these materialistic ideas that always end in genocide.
It's so clear to see.
I'm sorry, but in my opinion this issue is based on mind control.

Dear Bright Garlick.
When we have a large population intentionally kept below the poverty line and therefore in ignorance, what can we expect in terms of planetary consciousness?
Who are the most responsible for the destruction in quantitative, pollution, contamination, etc., the terms planet.
Example:
The poor fishing all day to eat or an oil like BP, who by greed and profit contaminates the whole Gulf of Mexico?

Honestly you really believe that the best efforts are put to a healthy planet service by creating and sustaining this paradigm elites?

This conversation is the same old story.
Problem, reaction, solution.
Of course in this case the solution is to eliminate much of the population. Whichever method.

Let's talk about eliminating the creation of the problem of mass destruction of the planet by capitalists self-destructive and vicious ever-growing methods of unlimited consumption?

Find out about the conference held in 1995 at the Fairmont Hotel.
A global labor market projected at 80/20.

This is all carefully designed. There are no coincidences and unwanted side effects. That's what I'm trying to make.

Thus, the argument of overpopulation is only a weapon of maneuver to achieve goals beyond.

We can never solve today's problems using the same thinking that created them.

If I'm wrong I'm sorry. My intention is the best.

Hug.
Naste

[Kindred]

There is NO 'population problem'... the Earth could support Everyone, and then some. It's all about Who is growing and controlling the food, and How 'they' maintain the idea of Scarcity, particularly in terms of energy - both the conventional idea of energy, and that of the Human Potential - which IS The Energy that Creates our World.

Some reading is in order:
http://rune.galactic.to/iarga.html

In Unity, Peace and Love

[GreenGuy]

An interesting thread. I'm a new (provisional) member. While it's true that earth is capable of physically sustaining the present population and that overpopulation is a button-pusher, we have a major problem with allocation of resources. Nature is basically self-regulating, and it seems to me that people cull themselves in many ways. Fukushima will have long-term effects on population, but in the larger picture, exploitation of resources for profit comes back to bite us in the end. Deforestation results in a reduction of life-quality for people who live far from forests. Loss of habitat disrupts the ecological balance, and we're foolish if we think that will not affect us. I tend to think that after a fairly horrendous transition from our current paradigms, there will be fewer people living in very different ways, with the potential for a kind of golden age.

[Bill Ryan]

-------

I read Paul Ehrlich's important red-flag-raising book The Population Bomb way back in the 1970s.



I no longer have the book (does anyone have an electronic copy?) -- but one sentence that has remained with me to this day is this one:

(paraphrased)

Ehrlich showed that by something like 2050 the world's population was projected to be something like 20 billion or more (these figures are from memory). He then wrote:

"As this is clearly impossible, something will happen to prevent it."

He stated explicitly that if humans didn't prevent this from happening through appropriate and workable controls (of some kind), then nature would take its course.

Global population would fall catastrophically through exactly the same means that have always occurred in the natural world: famine, disease, and conflict.

His book has been much criticized, but everything he wrote is still very real to me. I totally agree with many of Ehrlich's conclusions. The problem is how to reduce the world's population without forcibly killing everyone off, directly or otherwise.

Planet Earth simply cannot carry the unnatural load. The natural world is being trashed mercilessly and ruthlessly: it can't go on for much longer. Ecologist James Lovelock, the originator of the Gaia Hypothesis, has stated that in his opinion it's already too late, and we are all already past the point of no return.

That claim alone should give us pause for great thought. 'Too late', just as with a human body, means that in Lovelock's opinion, the Earth now has an fatal illness that's no longer curable. And that means that it will die.

Already apparently on the way to that, the oceans and forests are dead or dying, and in the sixth mass extinction since the life began on earth, we're losing hundreds of species every day: tens of thousands a year.

We're all very myopic about this. But the future increasingly looks like it may be something out of a bad Mad Max movie. This is part of what (I think!) this thread is about.

Do read:

The Sixth Extinction
http://www.actionbioscience.org/newf...eldredge2.html

[ROMANWKT]

Hi bill, your link is not working

Regards

roman http://www.actionbioscience.org/newf...eldredge2.html

Edit by Bill:

Link fixed, with apologies: it was the kind of URL that needed the www. in the address.

[RunningDeer]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
I no longer have the book (does anyone have an electronic copy?) --

The Population Bomb.pdf (revised)
The Population Bomb google resource links

[RunningDeer]

Posted by ROMANWKT (here)
Hi bill, your link is not working

Regards

roman http://actionbioscience.org/newfrontiers/eldredge2.html

The Sixth Extinction

“The Sixth Extinction Lessons.pdf”

[norman]

Commercial tomato growers pump Carbon Dioxide into huge green houses to boost plant and fruit growth. It works very well. I wonder why that doesn't seem to be replicated globally?

[sheme]

I think it is reasonable to ask all humans to limit reproduction to 1 child per couple. But not like China did it- appeal to peoples Earthcentric commonsense. Value female children far more than China did. Every decision taken should be made with Earth health in mind. Every occupation should be valued according to Earthcentric values, no matter what it is. Without the S*!t shovel we all stand in it , that means the plummer/engineer is king..

I suspect unnatural selection is at work in our sky, Nazi engineering is with us again, did it ever go away?

Are 'they' trying to create a natural catastrophe or many, to convince the world they should comply with population control- are we looking towards the sudden Earth shock that will convince humanity to stop breeding?

[marlowe]

Posted by sheme (here)

Are 'they' trying to create a natural catastrophe or many, to convince the world they should comply with population control- ?

They already have ...It's called Fukushima ...It is killing the oceans in slow motion...

[Robin]

Posted by Kindred (here)
There is NO 'population problem'... the Earth could support Everyone, and then some. It's all about Who is growing and controlling the food, and How 'they' maintain the idea of Scarcity, particularly in terms of energy - both the conventional idea of energy, and that of the Human Potential - which IS The Energy that Creates our World.

I do not agree with this. Yes, there is plenty of space to fit more humans, but when will we stop? I see new housing being developed every day being set up over pristine habitat. The prairie dog population in the U.S. is down to 1% of what it was before Europeans settled America...and I continue to see housing being developed over what little prairie dog habitat is left!

There is a huge difference between simply having enough space and having enough resources. We are intimately tied to nature and depend on the life cycles of all other organisms just as much as every other organism. If we continue to decimate populations of wildlife, we will also die.

It is truly an irresponsible atrocity. When will we stop?

If we continue to create more humans and housing, there will be less and less space for other life. If we continue to develop, the bees will continue to die off. Without bees, our crops cannot be pollinated, and therefore, we will not have food. It simply is not possible for us to sustain ourselves if we continue to grow in numbers. There is no way to argue this notion.

I sincerely believe that now more than ever we will need 7 billion people, because it is going to be a HELL of a job to clean up our mess and to restore Earth to a pristine state. Every single individual out of our 7 billion will be crucially important in lending their energy into restoration.

I also do think that improvement in education and an overall awareness of our true universal existence will keep human population under control. I also think that organized religion may play a large part in our overall ignorance of our Earth footprint. I don't want to offend anybody with this claim, but I think that people of certain religions have customs of bearing many children...and sometimes many wives.

http://www.overpopulation.org/religion.html

[Bill Ryan]

------

I agree 100% with Samwise's post above. It's not about space. There's plenty of room to put people!

it's about non-renewable, finite resources, and the huge toxic, poisonous, life-trashing mess we're all making of the planet. And the more people there are, the greater the poisonous mess that's accumulating, with absolutely no end in sight.

Solutions seem as elusive as ever if we are to:

1. Expand the world's population to 10-15 billion or more.
2. Maintain a beautiful, supportive environment that's a wonderful, stable, nourishing home for all the other creatures who have as much right to be here as we do.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Disclosure could solve all this.

[Robin]

Posted by EYES WIDE OPEN (here)
Disclosure could solve all this.

As much as I hate to say it, disclosure is going to cause some level of mass chaos. It has to. It just depends on how humanity responds to future, inevitable situations.

It really depends on how disclosure arrives. It could be that the Illumasites (Illuminati parasites) continue to do mass bombings, virus engineering, and other atrocities that will ultimately reduce the population.

Even if this doesn't happen, and the Illumasites are removed as well as their control, tens of thousands put into jail, and there are no more evil-doers, we still have to contend with other inevitable events.

At some point or another the existence of ETs is going to be known. This is going to shatter the lives of hundreds of millions of devout religious people, of all religions, all across the world. They are going to realize that they have been duped their whole lives and have been wasting their time believing in something that is not true. Undoubtedly there is going to be mass panic as all of those who put their trusting beliefs in being saved by God will not know what to believe and will not know who to lean on. Many may unfortunately turn to suicide and murder.

Concerning the disclosure of government, Vatican, music, and banking corruption, people will most likely also panic and become very angry. Again, there may be more suicides and murders as people become angry over the level of corruption going on.

Even if all is well and humanity handles everything relatively well, we still must contend with natural disasters. Hurricanes, tsunamis, earthquakes, etc. will continue and will most likely increase in number as well as strength. Again, many people who are unprepared or happen to live in the wrong place at the wrong time, will die.

I reckon that we have much to observe and experience in the next few years as a humanity. I hope for the best and the smoothest transition possible, but some things are inevitable.

But I think that it is safe to say with certainty that by 2020, Earth will be inhabited by fewer than 7 billion.

[Limor Wolf]

Important subject Bright Garlick, thank you for raising it.

Originally asked by Bright Garlick:"So, to all those thinkers and feelers who can imagine. How can we reduce the human population and how might these solutions unfold ?"

The nature of this discussion is such that it will be raised again and again until we (humanity) will deplete ourselves. In the time frame that we are in - education is simply not enough and even not possible because of suppression and counter react intentions and actions. Bargining with the earth via 'sustainable' energy' is by far a weak solution that is as good as a caress to a dying person.

The root of this problem surprisingly originates not in the physical realm as in the spiritual realm. We do not seem to understand the role of Energy in our life at all, or ourselves as energy and conscious beings, therefore solutions are not at hand. We were stirred to come to this place by the 'helping hands' that use this planet as a mining location, either for mineral commodities, biological ones or for soul domination reasons.

If there is one variable that can take us out of here it will have to be rooted in a change of our perspective and fast on-going understanding of the subject of energy. What is Free Energy, and how it can transform our lives so that no such viable dilemmas will even exist.

We must change gear in our consciousness if we want seven billions and more to live on this planet. As many on this thread have already mentioned, it is about learning to live with the earth and with nature in a mutual respect tandem, where earth is the leader and the people are the followers. But at the same time it is primarily about understanding energy and knowing how to sustain ourselves as an energy beings, nourishing and complementing ourselves and our surroundings with the cosmic force of the universe. A spiritual quantum jump might sound as a too grand request and may not appear achievable, but, maybe these days we will receive a chance for that to happen (since it did not happen' naturally' up till now) - the earth will rattle and shake and people will have to acknowledge it as a living being which is hosting us on it's precious body. There will come the time of dire stress, where we will have our backs to the wall and scarcity will be not on our doorstep but inside our house. Then we can not anymore look away. Then we will have to fight not only for our physical life, but also for our spiritual life. This is the only chance we have at this time to exist, no depopulation plans will help us, no mundane educational plans will assist us to survive, there are many lessons waiting on our doorstep and when the authentic cry of the soul will be heard then a new expension of consciousness may result and looking for answers to such dillemas (as in the title) will be unnecessary, we will be regained with new perspectives to take care to these old problems.

[Carmody]

The hard choice:

enlightenment/awareness...or physically die. The gun is against your head.

Choose.

And if you don't awaken and choose, someone will do it for you.

Example: If you were on my boat and would not stop freaking out, and stop being unaware that your blindness is going to sink the boat, I'd push you off. No matter how compassionate I might be, I'd look at the logic of the situation....and... push you off.



I'm working as hard as I can to increase awareness, but some are well past that, and in their own logic on the subject...have moved directly to the culling.

People want the over unity of free energy devices to end this thing. Well, it's important to understand that monkeys with no awareness are not going to be getting that technology, unless they become aware and enlightened, as it is too potent a system to play with unless the beings involved are fully cognizant of the ramifications... and can/will live in the area of that mindset... as enactment of life..from cradle to grave.

That awareness will have to grow to meet the challenges of such technology which can break atomic structure, shift and blend dimensions, gravity, the whole she-bang.

The carrot and the stick are both fully evident and in the real world..right in the middle of the maelstrom of the hurricane and the burning house. The burning house that you sit in, as you tied yourself to it, inside of it.. and refuse to let go.

Everything is right there.

Grow or die. Break the shell and emerge, or die stillborn.

[skippy]

Posted by Carmody (here)
The hard choice:

enlightenment/awareness...or physically die. The gun is against your head.

Choose.

Too late.. but I like your perseverance and optimism

In 1966, the German philosopher Martin Heidegger said the following: "Only a God can still save us", and I think he's right.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=umFnrvcS6AQ

[Agape]

It's really all about providing/enabling access to good level of education to people , access to information . Even then , without structured education, information alone does not have long lasting effect .

The answers exist , they are available, pity that even the 'mercenaries' like say, Bill Gates and others of such calibre do not see a full scale of the situation and what needs to be done . I'm not saying that the 'rich and powerful' are the only ones to feel responsible but if they don't , are they the same unconscious as a tribe shaman whose people lived in isolation for thousands of years and it's all he thinks they need ?

At the same time, there should still remain vast jungle , mountains, oceans , deserts and space for people who don't want to be part of ultra-categorised , technocratic , bureaucratic society, call them free people .

And it's not the 'people' taking so much space after all, it's the structures, the transport, production lines and with more sophisticated systems the building and productions , quite naturally, won't decrease .

It's about 'both ends of the spectrum' needing to be curtailed , in my opinion. Those who claim too much space and resources for their own will have to share if they want to inhabit this planet with other people ,
and those who have nothing ..but their children ..which always meant ensuring continuity of life and the most precious commodity that can't be well 'payed' in money, they will have to be helped to rise their awareness ,

to get informed there are others living here and what is available, achievable and what are the options generally .

It's not 'too late' . But it's time to take the situation seriously .

[Jean-Luc]

I find it hard to reconcile the fact that a net surplus of 250.000 new souls arrive on this planet every single day (http://www.worldometers.info/) and the theory that states that each and every soul arriving here actually did decide to incarnate on planet Earth at this particular period of Time, i.e. some conscious choice.

If we agree with this theory and with the idea often conveyed by NDE people that we gain total knowledge once in the ether, we come to some sort of paradox.

Why would so many "all knowing" souls decide to incarnate on Earth and not on some other beautiful exoplanet in the Universe unless (1) the theory is non-sense or (2) there is some good reason for it such as e.g. the need for more awaked people who pull up their sleeves and go for a real change or (3) there is still plenty of room if we manage resources with intelligence (freedom energy comes to mind) (4) or some other reason ?