What technologies, activities or concepts will be made obsolete by Free Energy

[Dennis Leahy]

Posted by Ilie Pandia (here)
Hi Dennis,

Most (if not all) of the concepts in the video you've posted would also be rendered obsolete with the use of Free Energy.

As far as I can understand, the "indigenous life style" is a romantic myth. Human population, left to its own devices, have always wrecked nature leading to species extinctions and desertification. ... ... ...

Where humans appeared... trouble was not long behind.

Excellent points, Ilie. It makes me realize that I have levels and levels to break through before I can discard the romantic notions and truly see scarcity-based thinking...much less practice abundance-based thinking.

Dennis

[Wade Frazier]

Hi Ilie and Dennis:

This issue of indigenous people and living in harmony with nature is one near and dear to me. The beginning of my studies of the subject started with the 500th anniversary celebration of Columbus’s magnificent feat:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/columbus.htm

and I have spent long years in studying what happened to the world’s indigenous people when Europe arose and conquered them:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/america.htm#before

I had to go deeply regarding Europe’s crimes against the world, and what a truly devastating tale to digest. However, in the past decade, I have been doing a great deal of study of anthropology, environmental studies, and the like, and I eventually realized that the natives were idealized (or demonized) in many ways. They were in no way as greedy, ruthless, and vicious as Europeans, which is largely why Europe conquered the world, but during the entire time of conquest, annihilation, recovery, and study, white people continually projected their stuff onto indigenous people.

The indigenous people were people, first and foremost, but there have been no true Golden Ages of the human past. The only times there were relative Golden Ages were when new biomes were exploited with new energy techniques, such as when agriculture came to the Eastern Woodlands. Historically, village life is when women had the most equality with men (at least until the Industrial Revolution), and that situation is partly what made the “savages” of North America so attractive to Europeans, as well as their relative freedom and relatively unspoiled woodlands. That was why running off and “going native” was an epidemic problem among the invading Europeans.

There were “sustainable” practices among the world’s indigenous people, but that is a very relative thing, and it was never anything like abundance. Where I live, salmon runs fed the villages, and the Pacific Ocean’s bounty meant that the natives of North America’s West Coast never had to engage in agriculture. Agriculture was likely adopted by people only when forced to due to population pressures. But the Pacific Northwest culture engaged in slavery, fought its neighbors, and the like. The Eastern Woodland villages had to move every generation, as they would burn up all of the firewood in the vicinity. Given enough time and the resultant population pressures that agriculture produces, that “Golden Age” would have eventually ended.

The Chumash developed an integrated economy, and enjoyed it for centuries before the Spaniards arrived to destroy it:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/lies.htm#serra

and one might actually call it sustainable, but all such civilizations were subject to the vagaries of weather, sporadic intertribal violence, and the like. If you could be transported there, you would not have liked it much, maybe calling it a nice place to visit, but not someplace that you would want to call home. Studies of village life before Western contact, such as the New Guinea Highlands, have shown how brutal and harsh their lives were. A man venturing into another village’s territory could expect to be summarily killed.

The hunter-gatherer phase of human existence is its most proportionately violent, with about a third of all men dying violently. Finds such as the ice man:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96t..._by_cold_death

show death by violence (or mass murders, maybe mass “sacrifice” to appease the weather gods, as has been found in European bogs, the cache of children’s skeletons at the base of Tenochtitlan’s temple, etc. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...s-archaeology/; child sacrifice was common http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_s...mbian_cultures ). Women were stolen by neighboring bands in the hunter-gather phase. With the Inuit, those charming people, a strange man in a band’s range was assumed to be looking for women to steal, and would be summarily killed with no questions asked.

There is plenty of evidence that humans of the Western Hemisphere lived in relative harmony with their environments, but that is relative. The first humans exterminated all the big animals soon after arrival, and they killed off all the candidates for draft animals. Horses, donkeys, camels, and elephants all thrived in the Western Hemisphere until humans arrived:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quatern...#North_America

Civilizations such as the Anasazi and Mayans did not ascend, but they collapsed due to overtaxing their environments, with epics droughts delivering the final blows.

Whether it was the Hurons and Mohawks, the Maoris, or Hawaiians, as soon as Europeans arrived with their weaponry, the natives used them to slaughter and conquer each other. Take Kamehameha:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamehameha_I

He was just some big bastard who saw his opportunity to conquer his neighbors when European military technology and techniques arrived. So, he became some kind of revered figure. No different than any other greedy and power-hungry potentate, with this harem, etc. If a peasant’s shadow fell on Hawaiian royalty, the penalty was death, and Hawaiians lived in the most idyllic environs of all pre-industrial peoples.

This kind of stuff is common when you begin the studies. To Ilie’s point, yes, humans have never lived abundantly, and rarely sustainably. There are many romantic fantasies projected onto earlier times and peoples, but if you want to find a happy, idyllic period of the human past, you are going to look in vain. There have been relatively nice moments when humans recently settled the lands, and there were not as yet great population pressures, such as in the Caribbean and Hawaii, but they were always relatively short-lived. This will be a topic of my essay.

Best,

Wade

[Carmody]

Posted by Wade Frazier (here)
Carmody:

I am sorry, but there are virtually no free energy “warriors” worth two cents. Been there, done that. Nobody wants to really hang it out there, except Dennis and the very few like him.

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/lessons.htm#howmany

People approach me with “I know a bunch of underground warriors waiting for a cause!” and other nonsense. A bunch of anonymous cowards are not going to get it done.

That is why I am doing plan B.

Best,

Wade

Say what you want Wade, it is not their end point or their internal directive I'm interested in.

I'm interested in the final result of all that pressure into the system, nothing more.

You can ask and hope for it to be as clean or as perfected as you want (as a shift/act/motion/change), but that will never happen. There is going to be some aspect of messiness to it, under the best of circumstances.

So I opt for plan A, Plan B, and Plan C through Z, all happening at the same time.

Maximum pressure. Whatever it takes to get it done. The pressure and energies required to break through the shell will still be what they are and all the idealization in the world cannot prevent the physical and fundamental aspects of such a thing.

Do not mistake my ideals and thoughts being different than yours or all you have proposed through communication. I believe in that idealization and motion toward an act (self propelled by those who read, etc), but it will never be on it's own and it will never be the core point of initiation or act.

It can be part of the origins, as a flavoring source point (as any component will be), but it will not be the core of the actual acts themselves, as their basis in beginnings. The human race is too diverse for that.

[Wade Frazier]

Carmody:

I have been on the front lines, and there are not enough “heroes” on Earth for the approach that you advocate to work, and all that it has accomplished is shattered and prematurely-ended lives, and a bunch of martyrs. You are welcome to go try other approaches, but I am finished with what does not work. I am trying something different, and this is not the thread to advocate the hero’s approach:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/paradigm.htm#hero

or the other kinds of off-topic posts that you make. You are welcome to start some “looking for heroes” thread.

Thanks,

Wade

[Carmody]

The approach will build itself. Putting a face on it is what will make it fail. Putting a face on it and discussing it, will bring it into being. Both true and false.

I advocate your method, I advocate mine. Like the line 'I don't care what they say about me, as long as they say about me'. Fundamentally, I have no set method.

I know all about front lines and this is not a urination contest. (nor am i saying that you think it is.)

I simply, reasonably, refuse to tell people or even propose to people that they shut down their efforts and move into your ideas and proposed avenue, as a sole enterprise. That is not logical, or possible.

There are 7 billion people out there, and even if you narrow it down to a few prime million of enactors and enablers, it will still roll out in a complex multitude of different scenarios, even in what you might find to be the best possible version of your vision.

And the rest, those that do not follow your vision, are actually the ones who enable - yours. (As you enable theirs). It can be no other way.

[Robert J. Niewiadomski]

Not being limited by energy "budgets" (and thus matter and time "budgets") anybody curious enough to peel off another reality layer, will be able to left behind idle arm chair disputes (or computer simulations) and get their hands dirty

[mosquito]

Posted by Melinda (here)
....
When you asked “Am I ready to accept abundance, joy and well being, not only for my dear ones, but for my perceived "enemies" as well? Am I ready to forgive or do I still have vengeful thoughts and I am just waiting to be powerful enough so can show 'em who's boss?...” ...it reminded me of what I often find myself thinking – that a lot of anger is really just love that became blocked. Love that was rejected, love that was betrayed, love that was never even recognised, love that was afraid to show itself for fear of the consequences. Not being recognised for our talents, our sacrifice, our good intentions – and being made to feel like we should be tough enough not to care – results in us burying these wounds so they are relegated to a place where they can end up getting the better of us subconsciously, making the wounds harder to mend.
....

Boy oh boy did I need to read that today ! You are a treasure Melinda.

[Melinda]

Posted by mariposafe (here)
Boy oh boy did I need to read that today ! You are a treasure Melinda.

Thank you mariposafe. I’m so pleased it resonated at a good moment! And how wonderful you’ve shared it - it’s much appreciated

Haven’t caught up with this thread yet, but looking forward to it . . .

[Joseph McAree]

Hi Ilie,

I felt I had to read through all the posts on this thread before I responded, first of all I apologies for not replying sooner but I just picked up on the thread a week ago and since then have returned to read them all.

This has been a great read and well worth the time it took to read as the you first posted the starting thread for this in September 2011 and it now has 28 pages of entries pretty big subject and I thank you for raising awareness of how people think about the effects of a free energy product being given to the people.

I have been thinking about this and most of the areas have been covered eloquently by many of the forum members, including yourself of course Illie yours have been among those I enjoyed the most, with Wade chipping in his comments and it's amazing how he can remember all those things he has written about and connects you to them, I read his full essays which again takes some doing and I await his next installment I am taking a vacation when it hits so I can take it all in.

So we have free energy devices in every homestead and we live in a world of abundance that is now heaven on earth, as it should have from the beginning, we kind of lost our way a bit for a while and evolved into something totally different from our intended journey.

The fact is Money has made the world go round according to the people that have it and make it, the quicker it's gone and everything that revolves around the use of money, the better , lotteries, gambling , slavery , prostitution,drugs, crime , banking, stock markets, pharmaceutical costs , mortgages , credit cards, bank loans , corruption , just to name a few that came into my head as I was typing this.

I look forward to seeing those I call the have's which is probably less than 5% of the worlds population meet up with the have nots, there life will become extremely different and they may find it difficult to adapt to there new situation! as the world can now sustain itself as communities or as countries depending on how things evolve and work out for the rest of us, we no longer need there money or there expertise for a high interest loan to feed the community.

I am sure I would love to have a self sustaining properly a stand alone home, the reasons most families live apart is due to work in different parts of the world or country this would no longer be a problem and communities would benefit and be happier if everyone could stay connected with family members.

I read a thread about relationships and how this would change and yes I agree this would be a difficult one to comprehend and figure out in the early stages of abundance, I would expect our young people would find ways to remedy this in the same way we have evolved to accept same sex partnerships in this modern world.

May the world live in peace and harmony as we work together to repair damage we have done to the sea, our rivers and repair and replant trees in the rain forest, set free all the animals that they are kept in captivity including closing factory farms, return every piece of land back to nature as well as cleaning up our waste landfill sights.

The abundance paradigm allows us to feed our children properly every fast food chain like McDonald, Kentucky fried chicken would close won't be needed or tolerated along with supermarkets most communities would grow there own food and raise there own livestock. There is a chance as we shift that we would all become vegetarian that fact is we are told so many lies by our government and our scientists we don't know what the truth is about our diets, I expect we will evolve into vegetarians and some time in the future we could live without ingesting food as we would get our nutrients from the high quality air and water we consume but some local communities may wish to continue eating meat this will be there freedom of choice.

To finish of I am a great believer in our two emotions Love and Fear, it's these that makes us different from the rest of earths creatures.

Love = abundance and abundance = Love

Fear = scarcity and scarcity = Fear

I really enjoyed reading all the posts in this thread and it was extremely refreshing to read similar mind sets as you would expect in project Avalon,

Many thanks for taking the time to read my post and I again thanks those who have taken the time to add and respond to this thread.

Kindest regards
Joe

[Wade Frazier]

Hi:

This one has been kicked around a little here, but intellectual property would become obsolete. That means patents, trademarks, copyrights, brands, and the like, as they are all ways to gain the commercial upper hand. In a world of abundance, invention and creativity would be used to better the world, not make a bunch of money, as all have what they need. So, when somebody invents a better FE device, or antigravity device, or time machine, or what have you, it is invented with the idea that it would benefit the world, and it would be given to it. And the benefit might be obvious, and it might take some demonstrations and persuasion, but it would only be done with the intent to help. Those who would not want it would not use it, but I imagine that truly useful innovations would find universal acceptance very quickly. The most gifted would likely achieve some kind of prominence, but stealing ideas and inventions would not make any sense (and would almost certainly not be “successful,” whatever that might mean), and those being “stolen from” would not mind, as long as the innovation was helpful. Again, the very idea of theft to gain riches and fame would become obsolete.

Best,

Wade

[Wade Frazier]

Hi:


Similar to my previous post, markets will become obsolete. Again, this can only happen in a world of abundance, and abundance is impossible without energy abundance. With FE and related technologies that already exist, today, it will take almost no human effort to provide life’s necessities for all people, and in a way that is environmentally harmless. Under that framework, the idea of markets, even urban environments, begins to become obsolete. All of life’s necessities, and even what are today called luxuries, will be universally available, and while there may need to be some “regulation” until people can let go of the scarcity mentality that leads to hoarding, thievery, exploitation, violence, and other scarcity/greed reactions:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/abund.htm#trek

markets will quickly become obsolete, as well as corporations, etc. The global communication system, which will also likely extend to at least our solar system, will be the closest thing to a market that there is, where needs are stated and filled. Because transportation would be effortless and take almost no time, goods can be transported to those who need it, or those who need it can go to where it is, and the needs are filled, again, with almost no human effort. There will not be money, exchange, or any of those other attributes of our scarcity-based system. With FE, those come onto the horizon; without FE, they are not attainable.

Best,

Wade

[Ilie Pandia]

I had a discussion a few days ago with some friends to see where we can go if we had free energy for everyone on the planet.

I quickly showed them how most things they would cling to would just vanish in that reality: who will do the dishes, who will take care of all the trash, who will do the "dirty work" and so on. They were basically stuck into doing little improvements in their world of scarcity. It was a fun exercise to do (for me at least).

We got to "love" and what happens if two people love the same person? What then!? I did not tackle that at all, since a reality where everybody loves everybody else w/o possessing them would have been too far out to get, so I've let jealousy stand for a while and then we moved to "power over others".

They said something like this:

"OK. Let's assume that given some miracle free energy makes it to the market place! What would happen is that a few power hungry people will work hard to recreate the power structure pyramid. They will use force to subdue and rule everybody else, and having free energy available will be able to do just that! So we'll be quickly back into the same spot we are today."

What I was not able to explain was that Free Energy will not happen unless we take our power back in the first place. So "power over" will be the very first thing to become obsolete. And it is probably the hardest one to let go! We hold power over others in very subtle ways (like power over our children, over our employees, over our customers if we control a commodity in high demand, over people that hold us in high regard and pay attention to what we do or say). It seems to me that most of us are now living in a "power over others" high, and it's very tough to let that one go! And it's also the major force that opposes Free Energy.

So what will prevent a power struggle in a Free Energy society? I would have to say that a higher consciousness and a better understanding of the limitations that "power over" has as opposed to cooperation. I imagine that in an abundant world the leaders (if there will be any) will be truly servants of the people and the planet, sharing their knowledge and skills selflessly in order to create more freedom instead of more dependency.

[Wade Frazier]

Hi Ilie:

“Power over others” is born of scarcity, although there is certainly an “internal” aspect to the desire of power over others, related to a soul’s path:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/spirit.htm#serving

But, as with many areas like this, there are positive and negative feedbacks. If you look at the history of humanity, that “power over others” aspect is far less prominent than it used to be, as energy usage levels increased. People who argue that we would just find new power games with FE and abundance are assuming that the desire for power over others is an inherent part of human “nature,” and not just part of the human “condition.”

Any reading of the fossil record gives the distinct impression that it was eat or be eaten for the vast majority of life’s history on Earth, and any plant or animal that gained the “upper hand,” so to speak, bred and/or ate its way into dominance, but the dominance was never forever, as other players came to the table to take their share of the energy-based resources, or Earth became hostile to life and mass extinctions cleared the playing field and, usually, the dominant players went extinct and previously marginal life forms came to dominate the next phase. Sometimes there was a “Golden Age” of creating and inhabiting new biomes, such as the Cambrian and Ordovician explosions in the seas, or the Devonian and Carboniferous explosions on land, but as niches were filled and mass extinctions happened, new players crawled to the top of the heap, such as nautiloids supplanting arthropods as apex predators, or fish supplanting them both, or reptiles displacing amphibians when the Carboniferous rainforest collapsed due to an ice age, or dinosaur diapsids displacing synapsids (our direct ancestors) in the Triassic, and mammals replacing dinosaurs after the Cretaceous extinction via asteroid impact.

In the hunter-gatherer phase of the human journey, once humans developed the toolset and social organization to move atop the food chain, they not only drove all the easy meat to extinction, but all other human species went extinct. The hunter-gatherer phase of the human journey is its most violent, with about a third of all men dying violently. The domestication phase of the human journey not only domesticated plants and animals, but people, too. Slavery was born then, but male great apes had dominated and enslaved females for millions of years, with bonobos the only exception (and industrialized humans, to a lesser degree, so far ). Slavery is obviously about the ultimate “power over others” situation, but when industrialization happened, slavery disappeared. Few know better than I do how Godzilla has humanity in thrall today, primarily by keeping energy artificially scarce, but the industrialized phase of humanity is humanity’s freest phase, and while we still see “power over others” games, they are far less extreme than in the past, and if you study coercion, it is always rooted in scarcity. So, for people who argue that “power over others” is some immutable aspect of human “nature,” the past few hundred years of industrialization provides pretty impressive evidence that coercion and manipulation have far more to do with the human condition than human nature. Because energy is so scarce on the planet today, we actually have a few hunter-gatherer societies on the planet today, as well as many agrarian societies, as well as different levels of industrialization. The phases of the human journey, based on energy availability, are easily seen in those peoples today, even though those more "primitive" phases are “polluted” by contact with industrialized societies, such as “primitive” peoples with T-shirts and cell phones.

Studying the development of the United States, as it displaced many hunter-gatherer peoples, while having a free industrialized North and a slave-holding agrarian South, brings many lessons of how levels of energy use formed societies.

It will be a key aspect of my upcoming essay, of how the human journey was far more about the human condition than it was human “nature,” and because we are the supposedly “intelligent” social animal that can manipulate its environment like no other creature ever, pointing to our “natures” is a poor excuse for scarcity-based behaviors. I have found that people who try to justify dark behaviors, or state that they will always dominate human societies, really have not studied the issue very deeply, and are merely projecting their scarcity-based awareness on the current situation and the future.

Again, just imagining abundance in a world of scarcity is something that almost nobody is willing or able to do. Regarding FE, projections of scarcity-based awareness is behind those denial levels 1 to 3:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/paradigm.htm#level1

and Levels 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and 11:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/paradigm.htm#level6

are also hooked on scarcity, in one way or another. Level 5, the classic fear reaction:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/paradigm.htm#level5

is likely where your friends are coming from, as they project their scarcity-based awareness onto a situation of abundance.

Again, this glimpse that Roads got:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post672748

is a world based on FE and abundance, but they got there via love, first and foremost. Again, love and abundance are paired, as are fear and scarcity. Moving from fear to love is nothing less than a paradigm shift:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/paradigm.htm#coming

and those in the fear-based paradigm simply cannot comprehend one based on love (just like scarcity cannot comprehend abundance). That is also why John Q. Public will not be able to begin to wake up to abundance until FE is delivered to his door:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post764032

Again, this is something that has taken me most of a lifetime to understand, and if everybody had to go through a journey like mine, FE would never happen, unless Godzilla decided to let it out, but he is addicted to “power” (as all dark pathers are, but to be a little sympathetic, all people living in scarcity and fear are addicted to “power,” so they get it where they can, even if it is over their children, spouses, employees, etc.), and he knows that if the means to abundance were ever allowed into public use, his game would end. In short, in a world of abundance, "power over others" may disappear completely as a game, or what might survive would be a faint vestige of how humans have played those games for so long.

Back to work.

Best,

Wade

[Ilie Pandia]

This will be an experimental/exploratory post.

Is it possible for us to become galactic citizens w/o Free Energy?

While pondering the Free Energy issue I was thinking that stuff like Star Wars or even Star Trek could not actually happen in a Free Energy galaxy. While Star Trek is somewhat more "enlightened", both stories seem to be projections of our violent thoughts and problems at the galactic level. In the end it's still scarcity but in the Galaxy. It's still a game of amassing power over others. I'd imagine that Q or someone like the traveler are the only hints were would actually go. (And Yoda has some useful hints, the old character not the new and more violent one).

Leaving our solar system would obviously require a lot of energy! I am not really qualified to say, but I don't think it can be done with strapping a bomb on our rear end and hopping for the best (aka as combustion propulsion).

So it would seem that we will be solar system bound, unless we come out publicly with an energy source capable of taking us out of the system.

Such an energy source would of course, out of necessity, be used to solve our local energy problems before us going anywhere outside the solar system.

While this does not really imply that a Free Energy device will be used, it will lead to energy abundance that will strongly point to the fact that energy was what was missing all along and that will point to Free Energy in many brains capable of thinking.

Because of all this, in my mind at least, it seems like we will not be able to leave our solar system unless we develop enough to have Free Energy.

If we accept this conclusion as being true for us, than I guess it must be true for other travelers as well. So this means, that all intergalactic travelers have Free Energy based societies. However this leads to a rather strange conclusion (the one that makes Start Wars and Star Trek impossible) and that is: all species capable of galactic flight must be "benevolent" in nature, or otherwise would not have made it out of their respective stars...

The usual evidence that such a theory is false is the European armies conquering the Americas. The argument is made that having enough energy to leave Europe, did not make Europeans more enlightened or "benevolent" in nature so why would it be any different for living the solar system.

The difference comes in the distances involved. Indeed the continents were pretty far apart for the means of travel for that era, but the star systems are much much farther apart. Solving the issue of crossing the ocean did not generate enough energy to create abundance in Europe. But solving the issue of inter stellar travel, it seems to me, would have to get us out of the combustion fuel high. And once that happens there is only one tiny step to make towards free energy.

Of course, if my conclusion is correct, it would imply that there are no bad aliens except possible the ones already inside our solar system that do not have the energy required for such long travels.

So would Free Energy make stories like Star Wars and Star Trek obsolete? To me, it looks that way, although I have some hard time coming to grips wit the idea that there are no "baddies" flying around the galaxy. That would make the Universe essentially a safe and fun place to be, wouldn't it ?

[Wade Frazier]

Hi Ilie:

Big subject, but yes, I think there is merit in your thinking. With FE, almost all material shortages vanish, especially if you live in a star system with rocky planets like we do, along with asteroids and gas giants (heavy elements might be hard to make, even with FE). I hear that Earth has some rarities in the galaxy, and other ET civilizations have come here to get it, even trade for it with near-Godzilla-level folks, and maybe even Godzilla himself, but it would have to be a very spiritually primitive society that would invade other star systems, and even subject the inhabitants to genocide, white-man style. That said, the tales I have become acquainted with say that there have been galactic wars as technologically-advanced but spiritually-primitive beings went at it. That sure seems stupid, but it has apparently happened.

But that apparently is also not the case in our corner of the galaxy, not these days. There really is something like Star Trek’s Federation that most of our ET visitors belong to, and something like the Prime Directive is actually a guiding principle. The ETs that are here are mostly highly advanced, spiritually. One thing that James Gilliland or Greer says is that if the ETs had hostile intent, they would have treated us like Europeans treated the natives long ago. Most of the “bad ET” stuff that you hear is propaganda to keep humans controlled and in fear. As Werner von Braun said, Godzilla is trying to portray ETs, if they are acknowledged at all, as the ultimate terrorist, so we have to huddle under Godzilla’s protection. When you begin to understand the dark side and how Godzilla thinks, his games start to become predictable (induced fear, helplessness, etc.).

The study of human history shows how rising standards of living, which are made possible by greater energy availability, have made human civilizations far more humane, at least for imperial citizens. The problem is that hydrocarbon fuels are anything but abundant and renewable, as FE is, so scarcity has still governed imperial dynamics, with greed-based empires (with greed-based ideologies such as capitalism, and scarcity-based ideologies such as nationalism) and conquered and subjugated peoples, even genocide, as we have recently seen in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I would think that if a civilization began like ours did, scraping around in the mud, that they would have had to figure out the FE and abundance issue before they would have left their star system, and to your point, yes, chemical fuels, or even nuclear fuels, to travel the stars would be highly primitive in light of FE, if it was even feasible. I think that FE is pretty easy to stumble into. Heck, Tesla was going at it a hundred years ago, when cars were barely running on the roads and the science of energy was in its infancy. Any society that begins to use energy in a big way will not be far from at least thinking about FE, and the technical issues with tapping it are not that great. Maybe I am too close to it, but with FE comes material abundance (in order to build an FE device, matter manipulation needs to be pretty good, at least the level where making advanced technology that runs on FE would not be much of a leap, if a leap at all). Why a civilization would then set about conquering other star systems seems like Klingon-level stupidity, but the dark side and megalomania truly know no bounds, as they try to play the Creator, but via fear instead of love, which means that they truly do not know the first thing about being a creator.

So, while I think that FE, love, and enlightenment are joined at the hip on this planet, it may not always be the case for other species, but in general, I think it is. According to the Michael teachings:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/spirit.htm#michael

all ensouled species are working on the same basic issues (love/fear, increasing one’s sentience), so the dynamics that we see on Earth today are probably common enough in evolving sentient species, especially when a third of them that can manipulate their environments destroy themselves when they are at the stage where we are. But if they could not get over that hump, they probably rarely left their star system. Also according to Michael, the star-faring civilizations are mostly comprised of younger souls, as with older souls the action is inside, not outside, so older soul civilizations have less desire to go sailing along in the galaxy. Do I know any of that for sure? Some of it, I do, but with the rest, it seems to hang together, but we will not really know until all the secrecy games end, and they are definitely being played, at a planetary level. That much I know for sure.

Best,

Wade

[Ilie Pandia]

Hi,

Mining asteroids and meteors for stuff may not really be required. We do not actually consume anything (not even the oil we burn with such abandon). We may lose some energy due to radiation in space, but I think that most of what we have stays on the planet (or around it) in some fashion. Plus we still get the Sun's light.

What we need instead is energy and some conversion processes to convert what he have into what we need! Any waste product becomes "what we have" and thus "fuel" for what we need.

If the Start Trek replicators are any example, we can just convert energy directly into what we need (matter). Mining asteroids would be required if we plan on leaving the planet and not returning soon.

For the heavy elements problem I was thinking of high speed collisions or powerful detonations inside force fields maintained with Free Energy. That may be force enough to fuse some elements into heavier ones, or we may even find the equivalent of enzymes in fusion reactions so such a blind smashing about will not be required.

And if Sai Baba was for real... we don't even need that. We can just materialize things, once we learn how.

This is why I find it hard to believe that someone intelligent enough to produce the amount of energy required to shove a spaceship across the stars is still stupid enough to go to war. But perhaps intellect, intelligence, mind and spirituality are not really linked that tightly together, if at all.

I am of course limited by my conditioning and life style on our planet, so what seems incomprehensible to me, may actually make perfect sense to some other race that is looking for say water and they don't have hydrogen and oxygen and fission or fusion did not cross their mind.

[Robert J. Niewiadomski]

Wouldn't condensing energy into matter (or bringing ore mined from asteroids down) right upon Earth's surface upset gravitational balance in the Solar System? In the long run of course. We ought to be careful with this... Not shy away from it completely but just that... Be Careful I would rather bring Earth into garden condition with limit on construction working and move buildings up into space where the asteroids are Then ask Earth life forms if they want to go up with us. Leaving equivalent of condensed energy (asteroids ore) of our (and other life forms going up with us) matter "footprint" on the ground.

Surface dwelings/cities would become obsolete then... People might even choose to stay down here to "care" for the Garden and live like they did in The Green Beautiful movie... Provided they have proper level of spiritual development.

EDIT:
The movie i've mentioned avoided a "toilet problem" (just like Star Trek ) With FE it would be just converted into energy and then condensed into some other form (toilet paper, water, perfume and soap maybe for reuse?)

[Wade Frazier]

Hi Ilie:

I have my doubts about Sai Baba:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=VNMxQtwkIuk

If he faked that lingam “manifestation” (see the end of that clip), he likely faked all of it. Anybody with killer bodyguards is no avatar in my book. Dennis had a bodyguard when I met him, with all the death threats and murder attempts being directed his way:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post253214

and while his bodyguard was a nice guy, if he had killed an assailant, I would have called that a big screw-up. For an alleged “avatar” to have that happen is a huge screw-up (and his reaction to it was not avatar-like at all, as he then hid away for years, and had bodyguards with him the rest of his life), while I have had to hear plenty of sophistry by Sai Baba cult members to defend such actions, as well as the murders on his ashram grounds. That is not avatar stuff, IMO, although I am very open to the idea of real avatars manipulating matter at will. That does not mean that you can’t do your own remote viewing, hot hands healing, UFO watching, and the like.

While the Star Trek replicators are charming, the difference between “merely” reorganizing atoms and actually creating atoms is vast. The energy differential between chemical bonds and nuclear bonds is about a million-to-one. I am sure that just rearranging existing atoms (playing with chemical bonds) is how the original “replicators” would work, like they did on Star Trek Enterprise:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replica...nd_limitations

I am not saying that there are no Level 19s on Earth, but it is not a practical path at all right now. As with that world that Roads glimpsed, there were few, if any, Level 19s in that world, and it was a Level 16 society:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/paradigm.htm#level16

It is true that mining other bodies in the solar system may not be required, and I am up for anything that does not harm Earth’s ecosystems. Brian helped pioneer the asteroid mining idea:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/brianmem.htm#oneill

and I see the point, although FE and antigravity obviates much of the reason why they advocated asteroid mining. With FE, all elements become infinitely recyclable, but I am not so sure that we can recycle at the subatomic level, at least at first. I think that would be a very high hurdle.

I think that true “intelligence,” mind, and spirituality are very connected. True intelligence comes from the heart, not the head. The lower astral plane is filled with “smart” folks, or so they think. The entities in those “hells”:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/spirit.htm#hell

are really pretty stupid, not realizing who and what they are: divine children of the Creator. But “free will” can take us to many dark places, but that does not mean that it is very “smart” to do so. The most deceived beings of all are dark pathers, as the greatest deception is self-deception:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/spirit.htm#love

As Roads said:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post309392

intellect and intelligence are two very different things, and I’ll agree. I have seen people a lot “smarter” than me do incredibly stupid things, generally related to a lack of integrity. Would you call Max really “smart”?

Hydrogen and oxygen are two of the most plentiful elements in the universe (with hydrogen the most plentiful by far), so I can’t imagine an FE-based society needing to invade distant star systems, especially inhabited ones, to get it. And the human obsession with gold is really only born of scarcity and incredibly stupid:

http://www.ahealedplanet.net/savings.htm#biggest

In end, if a civilization has FE and the related technologies that come with it, they will have material abundance, and I doubt will be motivated by scarcity, and as we can see on Earth, the difference between having FE and not is really all about integrity, not “intelligence.”

I hear you on thinking why the heck there would be interstellar or galactic wars, and all I can say is that the dark path is dark indeed. All dark pathers secretly desire to be Emperor of the Universe, but only one can sit on that throne. My understanding is that some planets have gone totally dark path (you would not want to take your vacations there ), and planets like that have something to do with those alleged wars.

If you go deep on the mystical writings, you can encounter many accounts of interstellar wars and the like. One account I read was where people turned their children into Level 19 bombs, where the child was trained to hold incredible amounts of energy, to only use it to “infiltrate” the other civilization and then detonate in their midst, like the suicide bombers that we see today, only up several orders of magnitude. After doing that back and forth for some time, the inhabitants of both civilizations began to realize the futility and stupidity of the situation (not to mention evil), and they both decided to raise their awareness on the spiritual front. I can see the Level 5 folks seizing on stories like that to argue why humanity should not have FE, but I have a higher opinion of humanity than that. On Earth, crime, violence, and wars have always been about poverty and scarcity. Remove those as dynamics, and people get pretty peaceful, women gain high status, and the like. Very few humans are dark pathers, especially accomplished ones (the Level 19 equivalent on the dark path – yes, it exists).

So, while I have heard plenty of tales of abusing FE, it was definitely a stupid thing to do and did not last long. Again, I have heard of galactic and interstellar wars (you see them enough on Star Trek ), but I have also heard that those days have passed in our part of the galaxy, with only a few beleaguered dark pathers trying to hang in there, and a lot of them live on Earth.

I have sympathy for Godzilla, but his days of being in charge on Earth are numbered. I vote for turning him into a vegetarian and redeeming him, but he may just seek out some frontiers where he can keep traveling the dark path, seeing where it leads.

I just saw Robert’s post as I readied this one. Robert, one asteroid would supply all of humanity’s material needs forever, and no, it would not upset the gravitational “balance” of the solar system. In fact, I think that real quickly, we would clean up all space junk and then mine all asteroids that crossed Earth’s orbit. That would just be for starters. Yes, I am all for whatever removes humanity's destructive footprint from Earth’s ecosystems. As you know, some of my visions are along the lines you suggest:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post330505

so I definitely support them. Yes, all human waste issues are easily solved with FE, and everything can be recycled in cradle-to-cradle fashion.

Back to chores.

Best,

Wade

[Carmody]

Posted by Ilie Pandia (here)
Hi,

Mining asteroids and meteors for stuff may not really be required. We do not actually consume anything (not even the oil we burn with such abandon). We may lose some energy due to radiation in space, but I think that most of what we have stays on the planet (or around it) in some fashion. Plus we still get the Sun's light.

What we need instead is energy and some conversion processes to convert what he have into what we need! Any waste product becomes "what we have" and thus "fuel" for what we need.

If the Start Trek replicators are any example, we can just convert energy directly into what we need (matter). Mining asteroids would be required if we plan on leaving the planet and not returning soon.

For the heavy elements problem I was thinking of high speed collisions or powerful detonations inside force fields maintained with Free Energy. That may be force enough to fuse some elements into heavier ones, or we may even find the equivalent of enzymes in fusion reactions so such a blind smashing about will not be required.

And if Sai Baba was for real... we don't even need that. We can just materialize things, once we learn how.

This is why I find it hard to believe that someone intelligent enough to produce the amount of energy required to shove a spaceship across the stars is still stupid enough to go to war. But perhaps intellect, intelligence, mind and spirituality are not really linked that tightly together, if at all.

I am of course limited by my conditioning and life style on our planet, so what seems incomprehensible to me, may actually make perfect sense to some other race that is looking for say water and they don't have hydrogen and oxygen and fission or fusion did not cross their mind.

When one arrives at 'free energy', one also arrives at a certain point. This 'point' is a cascade of sorts. one that opens up into connection to all things. If one breaks free energy open, then all other barriers fall at the same time.

The resulting froth of confusion in the individual, that occurs at that time... is the danger point.

The eventual outcome is that large areas or vast tracks of the psychology and physiology of what 'possesses' human avatars, what 'drives' them, the vast majority of that dissipates.

We end up at the contented space of no-time(no beginning, no end) and no-worry (never alive, never dead), as integration, as a path , into all, on all levels -- appears before the given self.

The polarization of the mind, when at the scarcity level, precludes the possibility of seeing and knowing this, for the larger part.

What I'm trying to say, is the idea of energy systems, as projected, in your post, will not be as you think.

Need, conjecture, desire, projection, and so on...all change, when that free energy threshold is crossed.

Which brings us to that point of it being so difficult for most people to understand as a realty that can exist, as it is too many mental steps beyond their comprehension and mind state.

That it has to be built slowly, like getting ready to jump off a cliff.

A long dialogue that in essence amounts to a statement of: 'Brace yourself ...here it comes...now'

For example, the idea that on those guidestones..we need to drop the population to 500 million and be sustainable.

Free energy will not raise the population, rather it will lower it, dramatically. The pressure to be here and procreate will almost - end. It might even go so far as to turn around... to the point of being difficult to keep the population as high as 500M, in the initial stages. (the few centuries after free energy's introduction)

The genetic imperative will change due to environmental concerns.

As we now know, the genetic imperative is passed down. When the genetic imperative almost vanishes, then the drive to procreate will also drop dramatically. Children will become a very purposeful intent and direction, and sex drive, in the procreative instinctual sense, will drop. Duality illusion will drop, as it cannot survive the introduction of free energy, which is part of that messy bit at the introduction of Free energy.

[norman]

Scarcity has an opposite, that I don't see being accounted for in FE discussion. I don't see FE as the opposite of scarcity. The word I'd use is the one that comes from agriculture, a Glut.

Without a technological infinity, the only 'place' where FE will not leave a trace of it's impact will be at it's source. Whatever use we make of it will produce effects.