How to reduce the human population ???

[Rocky_Shorz]

Posted by OnyxKnight (here)

Posted by AutumnW (here)

Posted by Milneman (here)
....Autumn, I'm Gay. VOILA! I'm doing my part *bows*

Honestly Milneman, I think that gayness is just one of God's answers to over-population. I don't have any kids and am past breeding age now, so great! You're gay and I'm blissfully barren! High five!

I don't think God has anything to do with it. More underpopulated worlds have much of the same.

they have 100 year old virgins on underpopulated worlds too?

poor dudes...

[Rocky_Shorz]

Posted by OnyxKnight (here)

Posted by Bright Garlick (here)
This is a question for those who really understand the human population problem - who see the widest possible perspectives. So please don't respond if you want to trump the "population problem is a myth argument" or say it's wrong to talk about the issue or create solutions. I understand that many people feel that way. People get so upset about this issue of population reduction, because they only interpret it through the lens of killing the masses but there are other ways. It's because so many people get so upset, that this stuff is decided in secret. It is almost impossible to have an open discussion about the subject in public but I have faith that it might be a little different here. Might ?

So, to all those thinkers and feelers who can imagine. How can we reduce the human population and how might these solutions unfold ? What methods are available and what methods might be considered most ethically sound ?

To those who are upset about the subject, please consider that this is an issue that countless alien races have had to deal with at some point in their evolution. If they found a way to live in a more harmonious way with their planet, with fewer numbers, so can we. If if we don't, we will create countless more problems for ourselves.

I shall primarily play the role of an observer in any discussion that takes place.
(As will those with a vested interest in the subject !!!)

May you all be happy and well and be a light unto yourselves !

Bright.

I'm sorry, but it IS a myth.

Just like the myth that most or all alien races have had such problems in the past. They haven't. They discovered space travel and there was nobody to lock the door of their backyard.

They might say their population is 5 million total. Ask them in return "Right, but how many planets have you colonized in total?" and there will be an awkward silence.

Some of them wont have a problem saying they number in 16 billion for example. A very good example, of actual overpopulation is right next door, a planet in Barnard's star, with 25 billion.

You people need to tell the difference between myth and fact. Fact is, we have this thing called population knots. And selective allocation of resources. Together, they paint the picture as if there isn't food, water, and material resources for everybody, which is a notorious lie.

so what is your feel of the situation with two nuclear powers about to clash, if a nuke is released will they step in and stop it at this point?

first a Squatch, next the Blue dude, and now these brown skin red eyed beings are in contact with me, all of which live on this planet...

the brown dudes want me to stop them...

dang I'm just a dude with a computer that causes quakes when I get mad and stomp my foot...

they want me to get mad and start dancing...

they have a sense of humor...

[Carmody]

speaking of all that, back in 2005, anyone talking about the specifics of this particular thing I'm to speak of, was shut down.

https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/3664ec51205c

Europeans are living longer. But since 2003, they've suddenly enjoyed fewer years of healthy life. For example, in Italy between 1995 and 2003, life expectancy increased from 75 to 80.1 for men and from 81.8 to 85.3 for women. At the same time, the number of years of healthy life increased from 66.7 to 70.9 for men and from 70 to 74.4 for women. But since 2003, while life expectancy has increased further, the number of years of healthy living has plummeted to about 62 for both sexes. More worrying still is that demographers say the same trend has been repeated right across Europe. Only the UK, Denmark and the Netherlands appear to have escaped. That raises an obvious question: what happened in 2003? One idea is that the weather is to blame. In 2003, Europe experienced an extreme heat wave that led to some 80,000 extra deaths across the region. And the higher temperatures could also have triggered ill health, particularly in older people suffering from chronic diseases such as diabetes. That has important implications for governments who have to pay for health costs in Europe. And it raises the possibility that climate change is already having a bigger impact on human health than anyone imagined."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It was not climate change.

It was micro particle dust, depleted uranium. In the UK alone, apparently...diabetes shot up by 600%.

The way the atmosphere flow works, is that the dust from Iraq lifts up and travels across Europe.

The Iraq war and ultra fine dust particles of depleted uranium, is the deal. That is probably the source of the lifespan reduction. Depleted uranium use, environmentally...has a record of producing results exactly like that of this lifespan reduction study. Imagine the mess that Fukushima is about to initiate..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War

Prevailing winds put the depleted uranium dust over and on Europe.

The ground war in Iraq, with depleted uranium figuring prominently, started in 2003.

[GreenGuy]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Sperm counts are currently plummeting. I believe the countries most affected are the developed nations and due to estrogenic compounds, a byproduct of plastics...
I am tired of reading about secret eugenics programs to depopulate the earth. We are doing it all by ourselves

Definitely true! I'm reminded of the ongoing discussion I have with certain of my friends who take the Bible very literally. I argue that when the "wrath of God" brought down nations, history shows that he simply allowed them to self-destruct. They became weak through bad policies, and were conquered. Very few empires were destroyed by earthquakes or other natural disasters that could be seriously attributed to an angry deity. As always, we do it to ourselves. Hubris lives!

[Kindred]

Unfortunately, it appears that a number of you have chosen not to read the suggested item.
http://rune.galactic.to/iarga.html

If you had done so, you would have learned about a rather local Civilization (a little over 10 ly away), that does Not ‘limit’ the number of it’s inhabitants, and yet had NO ‘poverty’, has all the food they need, with Everyone accommodated and thriving in a Spiritually and Materially supportive manner. They have NO ‘money’ and everyone recognizes the importance of being a productive member of society, physically as well as Spiritually, helping and Loving one another as their brother or sister.

They view us here on planet Earth as not even achieving the first syllable of the word “Civilization’, and are saddened by this fact.

They recognize the reason for corporal existence as the means by which to develop Spiritually, and that each person Creates one’s reality, and thus everyone strives to encourage this development in others, particularly their young.

The task I have undertaken with this embodiment is to promote these basic concepts in what has proved to be a very challenging environment.

Seth, of the ‘Seth Series’ by Jane Roberts repeatedly makes the point that We Create Our Reality with our beliefs, thoughts and actions. The people of Earth, could change their world for the Better… in a Heartbeat, If They So Choose.

If everyone would recognize their responsibility in the Creation of their Reality, then this could happen.

As Jesus admonished… Love One Another.
As Gandhi suggested, “Be the change you wish to see in your world”

It saddens me to see those in ‘authority’ here on PA (as elsewhere) promote doom & gloom, as well as trauma-drama. The people that work in the MIC, or at Monsanto, or any other number of destructive entities of this world, aren’t necessarily ‘evil’… they only do these things out of ignorance and for a Paycheck. I’m beginning to suspect the same of many in the Alternative Media. And with these two statements, I feel we arrive at the crux of the problem.

I suggest ‘just do it’, not for ‘money’, but because you Want To, because it Helps another person, because it Helps Mother Earth, because It’s The Right Thing To Do.

I don’t have a magic wand to make everything ‘better’… but WE Do. YOU Can Envision a Better World, and ignore the negative aspects that you become aware of.

Work for a Positive Change in yourself, and in those around you.

We CAN Create the Utopia of our Dreams.

Each Of Us, Together, Can Do This.

In Unity, Peace and Love

[Rocky_Shorz]

3 vertical farms in New York City can feed the whole population better than they are all eating now...

starvation is not possible, clear a bank building and turn it to food production, finally something worthwhile coming out of those monster buildings...

what I would like is a world petition...

enough is enough, you are playing war games, with the same amount of costs, you could be concentrating on the radiation killing our ocean, are you all friggen nuts? we have something worse than a world war happening right now but they are trying to distract us from what needs to be done...

the war will never happen, we will all die from a silent radiation attack on our planet...

the ET's aren't stopping it, it is up to us...

[Rocky_Shorz]

Petition:

to all those in charge of the current world insanity, We the People are saying ENOUGH is ENOUGH!!!

we are joining together arm in arm, to stand again against you, you don't have enough bullets, but we will take back our planet, we will feed the starving children you care so little about.

We will not go down without a fight, we have been watching your every breath, and now we are going to rise up as one world nation, it's a small world after all...

no more banker games, no more oil cartels controlling the worlds wealth...

we are going our own way, the right one...

shut down the nukes and replace them with cold fusion reactors, destroy the nuclear weapons, HHO gas will burn the nuclear rods and material cleanly no toxic waste to store. End all fracking, stop the earthquakes and ground water spoilage in all of our lands. Oil isn't worth it when the options are smarter and cleaner to the environment. Whether you prefer calling them cloud seeding or chemtrails, stop the weather modifications, black sky's aren't normal at sundown, it is getting into our food...

we are tired of your games.

surrender or be removed.

my bloodline goes back to Washington, I am not red or blue, I am the white that holds us together standing in faith with We the People, in this country and the world.


We pledge to take back our world...

[Rocky_Shorz]

and for those who are wondering, HHO is just what bubbles up when you put charged plates down in the water, captured in what's scientifically called a bubbler, it makes a gas that burns cool to your hand, but creates a reaction with nuclear material that makes it just dissolve without the radioactivity or need for storage.

come on Japan, you have plenty of water and people needing jobs...

if the world isn't going to help, show us how it is done...

[Kindred]

Posted by Rocky_Shorz (here)
enough is enough, you are playing war games, with the same amount of costs, you could be concentrating on the radiation killing our ocean, are you all friggen nuts? we have something worse than a world war happening right now but they are trying to distract us from what needs to be done...

I've stated before in another thread... you don't need a nuclear war to create a nuclear holocaust. We Were Warned against developing nuclear weapons/power.

In Thiaoouba Prophesy, by page 14, the Thiaooubans show Michel the results of such development on another world. The very world who's inhabitants came here and developed Lemuria/Mu which was one of the most advanced Civilization to occur here on Earth. Yet, the ones who remained on their home world destroyed themselves. I'm beginning to think that their prophesy is coming to fruition here on Earth - but I hope not.

The greatest threat to sentient beings is not of a material nature. The greatest threats to sentient beings are Purely of a Spiritual nature. The Reason for manifestation is for the development of the Spirit within a particular Reality... of which there are an Infinite number of Realities.

Each of us, in this manifestation, are here to Learn HOW to work with our innate Energy, and to Develop our Abilities to manage and control the Reality we create.

Generally speaking... We have Much to learn.

In Unity, Peace and Love



Rocky Shorz... BTW... why don't you just edit your previous post to enlarge upon what you've already started, instead of creating a new post? Could it be that you wish to create more space and posts such that other posts that offer alternative knowledge become buried via distance???

Please reflect upon this.

[OnyxKnight]

Posted by SamwiseTheBrave (here)

Even if there are enough nonrenewable resources for more humans on this planet--which I do not believe is the case--you must also take into consideration all other species. More humans means more housing, which in turn means less wildlife habitat. Less wildlife habitat means that there will be no room for bees to prosper. Without bees, our crops will not be pollinated and we will not have enough food.

Bees are just one example. We are intimately tied to the life cycles of all organisms. There is no way to argue this. It is not a notorious lie.

Then we have a habitat problem (tied with spacing, architecture, infrastructure), not an overpopulation problem. There are, enough nonrenewable resources. Quite enough to last us a few centuries, by which time we will certainly lose dependence on them entirely in favor for renewable sources.


The habitat problem can be solved in a number of ways, and multiple ways at the same time too, which would be more beneficial to all:


* Non-Intrusive Co-Habitation; (Eco-friendly technology and habitation models, without negative consequences on ecosystems, animal habitation and life cycles)

* Ecosystem Construction; (constructing artificial ecosystems where they have disappeared, and construction of the same in areas of the planet that have now become arid, desert, barren, etc.)

* Underground Habitation and City Infrastructure; (it already exists, but its not something officially recognized as existing; This allows the least impact on ecosystems and natural environments of animals easy access to mining, refinement, and energy)

* Concentrated Concentric Circle type Urban Habitation and City Infrastructure; (If technologically eco-friendly, the areas in between the concentric circles may also represent wild habitats, generally well separated from urbanized human habitation. And the rate of expansion with this model is almost 10 times slower than the urban expansion at present)

* Vertical Concentrated Concentric Circle type Urban Habitation and City Infrastructure; (An advanced version of the previous model, cities expand extremely slowly in radius on the planet, but expand the focus of the expansion in 90% rate is up, vertically, towards the sky. This will come in handy for us, not just because of the total area of habitation such a model produces, but also as we are entering a more mature space age phase of development, launching space missions will cost less fuel, or other resources for that matter, and any space elevator designs will be more efficient and cost-worthy to be built)

* Underwater Habitation and City Infrastructure; (Underwater cities, away from coastlines and coral reefs, any major animal habitats. Access to water, food, and resources is in literally every corner here. another thing is, underwater mining. If used carefully, such cities can stay active for 5-6000 years. By which time we would find a suitable planet to colonize without worrying about overpopulation)

* Seabound Habitation and City Infrastructure; (Floating cities like urbanized islands on the surface of the seas. They can have a fixed position, or they can be mobile, like stupendously large "ships". Or a hybrid of both. There's a lot of water around, and, if packed with eco-friendly technology, I don't see why lilypad-like urban, mobile, artificial islands, can dot the seas, assuming the rate of human population expansion you are projecting here)

* Airbound Habitation and City Infrastructure; (Tricky technology, but if its true about the things owned in the private sector, we are close to developing this technology soon. Platform, airbound, floating cities. Again, like the seafloating ones, these can be fixed, mobile, or both. If eco-friendly, we don't even have to be at sea, underwater, on the the ground or underground, at all. Minimum effect over ecosystems at large, perhaps providing avian animals some spare habitats aboard the flying platform cities.

* Spacebound Habitation and City Infrastructure; (Space Stations, Orbital ring Habitats, Standford Torus or O'Neill Cylinder etc. - built, maintained and locked in space. Here we have asteroid mining and interplanetary mining and resource management. Once we get to this point, in a half a millennium, we won't depend on the resources of Earth)


The great thing about all of these models is that a network can be created among all of them. Undersea with the seafloater cities, the underground with the vertical ones on surface, those on the surface with those up in the air, those in turn with a ringed habitat etc. Another type of trade system can be developed that would benefit all, in terms of specific things found, produced or accessed from each type of city (the marines ones have access to water, seafood, certain minerals or material resources other cities aren't, the airborn cities have access to any land city, and perhaps even a certain degree of control over weather and climate, etc.)


I keep mentioning eco-friendly, as you have noticed. The problem is not humans in general, but the technology and intent with which we spread on the planet. Careless, irresponsible invasion of ecosystems is what's detrimental here, not the numbers. The parasitic spread is also not triggered because of lack of resources, but because of lack of access to resources, and lack of understanding, which could produce solutions to not just this "global problem", but many other ones, who are perhaps more realistic. The technologies exist today, or are close to being developed. The thing is, all of these are in the private sector. Nobody wants that to hit mainstream. This is the core problem in many ways. Those technologies they hid can easily not only solve this "overpopulation" thing, but hunger, droughts, floods, diseases, and energy cost, and the lack renewability of it. There is a way to argue it, if you know the causes. The big fat one in the middle is still, a notorious lie, that's propagated as fact.

[OnyxKnight]

Posted by Rocky_Shorz (here)

so what is your feel of the situation with two nuclear powers about to clash, if a nuke is released will they step in and stop it at this point?

first a Squatch, next the Blue dude, and now these brown skin red eyed beings are in contact with me, all of which live on this planet...

the brown dudes want me to stop them...

dang I'm just a dude with a computer that causes quakes when I get mad and stomp my foot...

they want me to get mad and start dancing...

they have a sense of humor...

They probably would terminate the operation. They've done it before. Unless the game has changed and they want to see how it all plays out. But I think that would be at a too great cost for them to do nothing. We're not the only life here on the planet.

About the rest, I'll need more information.

Posted by Rocky_Shorz (here)
they have 100 year old virgins on underpopulated worlds too?

poor dudes...

I meant individuals we would define as "gay", "bisexual", "transexual", "hermaphrodite/androgynous", or a gender-bender (they change sexes). Many people think of the aforementioned as "crazy", but they haven't spent enough time out there. There's a hole other can of worms there. A whole different kind of "crazy" . The sooner we get used to this the better.

But yeah, there are "virgins" too. Some transcending their 100 years away still. They are called asexual reproducers .

Some bud off like plants and fungi. Go figure .

[OnyxKnight]

double post - sry

[Rocky_Shorz]

BP's "mistake" released the Tide on the east coast affecting respiratory problems...

Seafood anyone?

Swimmers and surfers are being met with dead fish along some of our Southwest Florida beaches. It is happening on one of the busiest weekends for some fun in the water. Red tide is the culprit of what is behind the fish after fish along the beach. It causes the fish to drown and the waves bring the on shore. On this busy beach weekend, red tide isn't the only thing affecting marine life. Claus Gruner has his helmet on for protection and his wet suit on. "Safety first," said Gruner. Now, it's time to take on the water for a little bit of wind surfing. Gruner is used to sharing the open water this time of year with fish - dead or alive. "They'll be washed away in the next high tide, which is tonight sometime. They'll be gone," said Gruner. But they are not gone yet. Red tide is killing off marine life in Southwest Florida. A few days ago, it was also to blame for leaving a usually busy beach empty. "Everybody's here. There must've been 50 people here on the beach. They walked off hacking. Their eyes were teary," said Gruner. On Friday, wind surfers were not coughing and they aren't bothered by the extra sight on the sand. Many are used to it. "Nah, it really doesn't concern us that much. I mean, the red tide comes in and comes out. It doesn't keep me away," said kite boarder Taylor Nelson. "It's very sad to see, but it's a part of it. If you love the water, it's part of the deal," said wind surfer Kenneth Davis. As for Gruner, he has a bit of advice for beach goers this time of the year. "A little teary in the eyes, but other than that it, it doesn't affect you. Unless you eat one of those dead fish, which you probably don't want to do anyway," said Gruner. Health experts are reminding swimmer to keep in mind, if you have respiratory issues you may want to avoid these conditions... link

[GreenGuy]

Posted by Kindred (here)
Unfortunately, it appears that a number of you have chosen not to read the suggested item.
http://rune.galactic.to/iarga.html

Thanks for the suggestion...I did so, and it was very interesting to say the least.

Posted by Kindred (here)
Seth, of the ‘Seth Series’ by Jane Roberts repeatedly makes the point that We Create Our Reality with our beliefs, thoughts and actions. The people of Earth, could change their world for the Better… in a Heartbeat, If They So Choose.

This is something I've learned on my own. I have no opinion regarding the Seth material although I have read some of it.

Posted by Kindred (here)
It saddens me to see those in ‘authority’ here on PA (as elsewhere) promote doom & gloom, as well as trauma-drama. The people that work in the MIC, or at Monsanto, or any other number of destructive entities of this world, aren’t necessarily ‘evil’… they only do these things out of ignorance and for a Paycheck. I’m beginning to suspect the same of many in the Alternative Media. And with these two statements, I feel we arrive at the crux of the problem.

We all have a great length to go, merely to overcome our conditioning. Even when some number of us realize the truths you allude to, it is nearly impossible to pass the realization on to others simply by talking to them. This of course is the crux of being the change we wish to see, yet even those of us who strive often feel that our efforts don't amount to much.

Posted by Kindred (here)
I suggest ‘just do it’, not for ‘money’, but because you Want To, because it Helps another person, because it Helps Mother Earth, because It’s The Right Thing To Do.

This is nearly verbatim what I have said countless times to people; it's discouraging to note how seldom it takes hold, even with people we think of as "good." I want to believe we are making some progress.

Posted by Kindred (here)
Work for a Positive Change in yourself, and in those around you.

We CAN Create the Utopia of our Dreams.

I thoroughly agree, but from what I observe, it will take a long time. Speaking only for myself, I'm still working on myself. People want certainty and dogma, and that isn't what we offer, is it?

[Airwooz]

Education and Income level...most developed countries's population are dropping...

[observer]

Posted by observer (here)
I've used this one in the past but I can't think of a more appropriate dissertation for this thread:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=7W33HRc1A6c

It's time the members stopped thinking of more ways to control things and start thinking of ways to end the control mechanisms.

Please don't take this as a smart-a$$ed comment, but the wisdom in Mr. Carlin's humor can "trump" any argument for population control. I personally don't see the problem being an issue individuals need to debate and attempt to control. The problem will take care of itself....

The above comment #16 really wasn't intended as any sort of smart-a$$ed reply to this problem. George Carlin had a wisdom and an intellect far beyond the average individual: ...."so pack your bags folks, we're all going away".

For those members who have the patience to sit and watch a video of great relevance to this issue, I think we will all find a greater understanding to what George was saying in his above quote.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=RRG8nUDbVXU

When the fine contaminated particulate from the seasonal dust storms in the Middle East reach the Eastward prevailing winds of the Jetstream in the lower levels of the stratosphere, and this all combines with the Easterly flow of the contamination from Fukushima the Northern hemisphere will no longer be habitable.

Soft-Kill.

The pin on the preverbal hand grenade has already been pulled, and the device has already been thrown into the crowed room....

[Robin]

Posted by RMorgan (here)
Overpopulation is definitely not a myth. It's completely ignorant to think about it just in terms of if there's enough space and resources for everyone...It's about how much space we can occupy and how much resources we can take while living in harmony with all other living beings which share this planet with us.

I'm going to follow up Raf's comment with some quotes by Aldo Leopold:

“There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace.”
― Aldo Leopold, A Sand County Almanac

“Conservation is getting nowhere because it is incompatible with our Abrahamic concept of land. We abuse land because we regard it as a commodity belonging to us. When we see land as a community to which we belong, we may begin to use it with love and respect.”
― Aldo Leopold

“One of the penalties of an ecological education is that one lives alone in a world of wounds. Much of the damage inflicted on land is quite invisible to laymen. An ecologist must either harden his shell and make believe that the consequences of science are none of his business, or he must be the doctor who sees the marks of death in a community that believes itself well and does not want to be told otherwise.”
― Aldo Leopold, A Sand County Almanac

“Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching- even when doing the wrong thing is legal.”
― Aldo Leopold

“The last word in ignorance is the man who says of an animal or plant, "What good is it?" If the land mechanism as a whole is good, then every part is good, whether we understand it or not. If the biota, in the course of aeons, has built something we like but do not understand, then who but a fool would discard seemingly useless parts? To keep every cog and wheel is the first precaution of intelligent tinkering.”
― Aldo Leopold, Round River: From the Journals of Aldo Leopold

“Our ability to perceive quality in nature begins, as in art, with the pretty. It expands through successive stages of the beautiful to values as yet uncaptured by language.”
― Aldo Leopold, A Sand County Almanac: With Other Essays on Conservation from Round River

“We shall never achieve harmony with the land, anymore than we shall achieve absolute justice or liberty for people. In these higher aspirations the important thing is not to achieve but to strive.”
― Aldo Leopold, Round River: From the Journals of Aldo Leopold

“We reached the old wolf in time to watch a fierce green fire dying in her eyes. I realized then, and have known ever since, that there was something new to me in those eyes – something known only to her and to the mountain. I was young then, and full of trigger-itch; I thought that because fewer wolves meant more deer, that no wolves would mean hunters’ paradise. But after seeing the green fire die, I sensed that neither the wolf nor the mountain agreed with such a view.”
― Aldo Leopold

“Cease being intimidated by the argument that a right action is impossible because it does not yield maximum profits, or that a wrong action is to be condoned because it pays.”
― Aldo Leopold, A Sand County Almanac

“Examine each question in terms of what is ethically and aesthetically right, as well as what is economically expedient. A thing is right when it tends to perserve the integrity, stability, and beauty of the biotic community. It is wrong when it tends otherwise.”
― Aldo Leopold

“To those devoid of imagination a blank place on the map is a useless waste; to others, the most valuable part.”
― Aldo Leopold, A Sand County Almanac: With Other Essays on Conservation from Round River

“Only the mountain has lived long enough to listen objectively to the howl of the wolf.”
― Aldo Leopold

“Civilization has so cluttered this elemental man-earth relationship with gadgets and middlemen that awareness of it is growing dim. We fancy that industry supports us, forgetting what supports industry.”
― Aldo Leopold, A Sand County Almanac: With Other Essays on Conservation from Round River

“Like winds and sunsets, wild things were taken for granted until progress began to do away with them. Now we face the question whether a still higher 'standard of living' is worth its cost in things natural, wild and free. For us of the minority, the opportunity to see geese is more important than television.”
― Aldo Leopold

“My favorite quote: The land ethic simply enlarges the boundaries of the community to include soils, waters, plants, and animals, or collectively: the land... In short, a land ethic changes the role of Homo sapiens from conqueror of the land-community to plain member and citizen of it. It implies respect for his fellow-members, and also respect for the community as such.”
― Aldo Leopold

“All conservation of wildness is self-defeating, for to cherish we must see and fondle, and when enough have seen and fondled, there is no wilderness left to cherish.”
― Aldo Leopold, A Sand County Almanac: With Other Essays on Conservation from Round River

“A conservationist is one who is humbly aware that with each stroke [of the axe] he is writing his signature on the face of the land.”
― Aldo Leopold, A Sand County Almanac

“But wherever the truth may lie, this much is crystal-clear: our bigger-and-better society is now like a hypochondriac, so obsessed with its own economic health as to have lost the capacity to remain healthy. . . . Nothing could be more salutary at this stage than a little healthy contempt for a plethora of material blessings.”
― Aldo Leopold

If we continue expanding the human population, the world well continue to be less and less aesthetically pleasing to each individual, thereby reducing the intrinsic value of Earth and lowering the happiness of each.

[GNC Harteveld]

Posted by seeker1972 (here)
How about we clone the planet? Make one a light earth, and one a dark earth. All the jerks get put on the dark one and they can trash the place if they want. All the non-jerks who long for something better get put on the light one, and they can turn it into something amazing, in harmony with their fellow humans.

Didn't they try this in Great Brittain by sending the criminals to Australia?
Nowadays everyone would rather live in Australia. :D

[AutumnW]

To be cautious about our numbers a d work to implement change isn't the same as being panicked or fear based. On the other hand, ignoring the reality of what we are doing isn't positive. It's being fantasy prone. Seeing the world in terms of abundance while species disappearance ramps up is irrational and human centric. Abundance for who, for what... The 2 or 3 species that bit it in the last 24 hours? Perhaps you can choose to live a cloistered existence, sheltered from the dire effects of 7 billion humans eating you out of house and home and destroying your habitat. The animals and bio diverse Eco systems cannot!

[Kindred]

An excerpt from Iarga:
http://rune.galactic.to/iarga.html

Initially, I saw only clouds: above me, the pink layer of mist that I had seen earlier; then a second, broken cloud layer which was primarily responsible for the strange, diffused light on the planet. We passed through this layer at a height of about twenty miles, and viewed from the underside it was a mixture of yellow-gray, brown and greenish clouds that gave a very somber and threatening impression. Lastly came a cloud layer that in height, form and color, closely resembled ours, and after passing through this, I had an unobstructed view of the surface. We flew over a bright-green ocean with white wave crests.

Above the water ran an orange strip as straight as an arrow, which, separated by a white-beached horse-shoe-shaped island, split and continued in different directions. It was only when the spaceship came steadily lower that I realized what this strip was. A railway bridge! On long, slim towers, high above the water, ran a bridge as far as the eye could see. Along this bridge slim shining torpedoes moved in both directions. Their speed was only slightly less than that of the spaceship and there were far too many of them for me to count. The distance between the torpedoes was about ten times their own length, all spaced exactly alike along an eight-track system which was divided into two layers, one above the other. I had little time to study the trains further, for we moved on.

Land came into view - a low-lying coast, split by a broad river with large adjoining lakes-and before my astonished eyes a strange, unearthly panorama unfolded. For as far as the eye could see, the land was divided by the orange railway into regular rectangles. The long torpedoes moved between huge, glass, oiltank like constructions with shiny dome-shaped roofs. Areas of green on either side of the railway looked something like prehistoric forests. The longer I studied this landscape, the more I became aware that this was ribbon development in its extreme form. The area between the buildings seemed to be used namely for agriculture, only now and then making way for an industrial complex. The camera sped on. The landscape changed and became undulating, split by walls into huge terraces which compared with the wine fields of Italy. Behind this lay mountains, and in a great bowl between the peaks a red-brown lake came into view. The machine tilted its nose steadily lower until I was able to see vertically below. Around the shores of the lake, numerous buildings were to be seen, among which were several gigantic combs.

In three places, powerful blue-white lights, flanked by orange lights, flashed. Everything pointed to the fact that the spaceship was going to land here, and just at the last second, before the picture vanished, I saw something that made me catch my breath. On the right side of the screen, low above the lake, three shiny discs hung like sentries in the air. They had the form of perfect, streamlined discuses. "I saw flying saucers!"

"You saw three of our aircraft."

"In the form of a saucer?"

"Exactly. And if you are interested, we will let you see them."

"I certainly am. Did you come here in something like that?"

"No. These aircraft have about as much in common with our spacecraft as an Indian arrow has with your Mars probe. We hope that you have more important questions to ask than about aircraft."

"Of course. Am I to understand that the glass tanks are your houses?"

"Yes, We call them house rings because they are in fact built in the form of a ring with a covered central recreation area."

"Is the whole planet built in this way?"

"Yes, all areas that are suitable for living are built in this manner." The screen showed a view of a living area from a great height."

"So you all live in the same type of house?"

"From the outside they are all the same, but inside there is great variation."

"The uniformity appalls me. Do your top men also live in the cylinders?" I had an idea, judging from the length of the trains, which I guessed were about one hundred and fifty feet, that these buildings were enormous, at least nine hundred feet in diameter and more than three hundred feet high.

"The words 'top men' suggest something of the Earth's ideas of status; you surely do not imagine that in a higher civilization, standards of justice can exist that allow status to play a part?"

"I don't see what status has to do with more variation in house building. Why not simpler, smaller houses with more privacy?"

"Small houses with separate pieces of land form a system that you call 'towns,' and such inefficiency is unthinkable to Us.

"Why inefficient? When you have our problem of overpopulation, you must build large cities to house all the people. We cannot afford the luxury of large areas of woodland as you can."

"What do you call overpopulation?"

"Our small country has more than three hundred people to the square kilometer, which in my opinion is quite dense."

"Compared to Earth's average of twenty-five to the square kilometer, that is indeed dense. Estimate the number of people living in the area that you see here. Every ring houses about ten thousand. Work it out per rectangle."

"Ten thousand per ring?"

"Yes, and we have more square meters per person than you have."

I did a quick calculation. Each rectangle contained thirty-six rings, so thirty-six times ten thousand is . . . heavens! Three hundred and sixty thousand! I hadn't expected that. It made each rectangle a complete city! But, then, it was also a lot of land. "How long is the rectangle?"

"Roughly ten kilometers." I judged that the width must then be in the region of six kilometers, so that an area was then sixty square kilometers and therefore my solution must be 600 people per square kilometer. "I was certainly mistaken about your population - 600 per square kilometer. That's double ours. I was under the impression that it was much less. When I see the space that you have left, I must admit that it is a very clever solution."

"Your answer amuses Us because you have made a small mistake. You have the decimal point in the wrong place."

I calculated again and came to the ridiculous total of six thousand. "It can't be six thousand."
"It is, Stef. What you see here houses a population of six thousand people to the square kilometer."

"But that's ridiculous. How can you do it? That's twenty times as many as our overpopulated land."

"Your word 'overpopulation' is pure nonsense. Our planet has a population density at least one hundred times greater than yours and we do not speak of overpopulation."

I began to feel uneasy, that was madness. I knew it. I should never have started this conversation. It was leading nowhere. I stared with new interest at the picture in front of me and tried to calculate the living space of these people. Strange as it may seem, there were no signs of overpopulation. On the contrary, there was room enough, round the cylinders, and the roads that ran through the woodland areas were in no way obstructed with people or traffic. "This is so incomparable with anything that we know that I am at a loss for words."

"That is the right attitude. With this confrontation with a totally different world, with totally different standards and a totally different philosophy, we are trying to make it clear that you must not draw comparisons. Doing so prevents you from understanding this world and its level of civilization. Forget your own world and try to understand what is happening here. Try, without prejudice, to follow our explanation, as this alone will be difficult enough. "The reason for our dense population is the small area of dry-land on our planet. Iarga is almost completely covered with water forming deep oceans, which leaves Us with a surface area of dry-land which can be compared to the area of Australia, and this is distributed over numerous islands. We were faced with the problem of feeding and housing the billions of beings which we needed in order to achieve our creation goal, on the smallest possible area of land. This imposed the greatest demands on our planning and social systems; these demands do not occur on Earth, you have room to spare.
"What we needed to create a high level of culture were three things: freedom, justice and efficiency. We will explain these concepts one at a time, beginning with the last, efficiency. "You are shocked by the size of our population, but the space surprises you. Strange, eh? It is not so strange when you realize that you are not shocked by the number of people but by the space that is left over in what to you is a ridiculously overpopulated world. You are shocked by our efficiency. To Us, it is the most normal thing in the world, because without this concept, we simply could not exist. Without efficiency, our world would immediately collapse. You will continually come up against this concept in our explanations because we must make it clear to you how carefully each of the three concepts-freedom, justice and efficiency - we had to employ to reach the level of civilization that can be called stable. "Also, justice is a condition for efficiency.