The real Jesus, the real Mary, Gnosis, the Archons, and the world's first major smear campaign

[Bill Ryan]

The Jesus Family Tomb: The Discovery, the Investigation, and the Evidence That Could Change History (Simcha Jacobovici, Charles Pellegrino)

E-book here --> http://projectavalon.net/The_Jesus_F...Pellegrino.pdf

[Hazel]

The book (so far) is a great read..

decided to seek out some visuals ... this is video footage of the discoveries and some of the early controversy surrounding them:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=QLwF2ldNpbQ

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by recap1 (here)
The book (so far) is a great read..

decided to seek out some visuals ... this is video footage of the discoveries and some of the early controversy surrounding them:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...electedIndex=0

The full documentary -- The Lost Tomb of Jesus -- is riveting (produced by James Cameron) and is HIGHLY recommended.

As best I can see, it's no longer available in one long video on YouTube... but should certainly be available on a torrent.

[Tangri]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by recap1 (here)
The book (so far) is a great read..

decided to seek out some visuals ... this is video footage of the discoveries and some of the early controversy surrounding them:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...electedIndex=0

The full documentary -- The Lost Tomb of Jesus -- is riveting (produced by James Cameron) and is HIGHLY recommended.

As best I can see, it's no longer available in one long video on YouTube... but should certainly be available on a torrent.

I am not sure if I can post like this but if it is inappropriate please delete link.
http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/39081..._Tomb_of_Jesus

[Atlas]

Here is the full documentary:

Part.1 - 2007 - The Lost Tomb of Jesus

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=81Gx7YSb1mU

Part.2 - 2012 - The Resurrection Tomb Mystery

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=252QvhOzn6o

[Atlas]

Posted by 1 flew over (here)

Posted by Milneman (here)
...I find it possible, but extremely unlikely this is the family tomb of Jesus of Nazareth...

...the claims in the rebuttal are, hummm how shall I put this, creative...

In her Official Report on the James Ossuary, Dr. Rochelle Altman concludes:

"If the entire inscription on the ossuary is genuine, then somebody has to explain why there are two hands, two different scripts, two different social strata, two different levels of execution, two different levels of literacy, and two different carvers. They could also explain where the frame has gone.

The ossuary itself is undoubtedly genuine; the well-executed and formal first part of the inscription is a holographic original by a literate (and wealthy) survivor of Jacob bar Yosef, probably sometime during the Herodian period. The second part of the inscription bears the hallmarks of a fraudulent later addition, probably around the 3rd or 4th centuries, and is questionable to say the least."

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Posted by The Jesus Family Tomb book
The first time an ossuary was found with the name “Jesus, son of Joseph” on it was in 1926. It made international headlines when its existence was announced on January 6, 1931

The Reading Times, 16 January 1931:

Bones Labeled 'Jesus Son of Joseph' Not Those of Christ, Expert Says

BERLIN, Dr. Eleanar Sukenik, archeologist of the University of Jerusalem, reiterated today - that the recent finding of an ossuary inscribed "Jeshus Bar Jo-hoseph" (Jesus, son of Joseph) does not warrant the conclusion that the tomb contained the bones, of Christ. Dr. Sukenik previously had told the acheological association of Berlin that the ossuary, inscribed in Arabaic, did not necessarily have a connection with Christ, and tonight he explained the discovery further in an interview.

"The inscription is extremely interesting." he said, "but there is no direct evidence as to the identity of the man whose bones are In the ossuary. " The important point is that the historicity of the New Testament is reinforced in that we have found on this and hundreds of similar ossuaries many names that occur for the first time in the New Testament but of which we hitherto had no proof that they were current names at the time of Christianity's birth.

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Posted by The Jesus Family Tomb book
In September 1945 in Talpiot, a tomb was found containing eleven ossuaries. Sukenik was the excavator. Architecturally, it is very similar to the “Tomb of the Ten Ossuaries.” On ossuary 8, there are large cross-marks. There is also an inscription written in Greek: “Jesus Aloth.” It has been suggested that this is a rendering of the Hebrew verb “Aleh,” meaning “rise up.” On ossuary 7, there is Greek writing drawn in charcoal. Sukenik translated it as “Jesus, woe!” On ossuary 1, a Hebrew inscription was found, “Shimon bar Saba.” Barsabbas is a family name known only from Acts (1:23, 15:22).

The Daily Mail, 3 October 1945:

Name Of Jesus Found Carved On Burial Urn

JERUSALEM, Oct. 3 (JP).— Archeologists said today they had discovered the name of Jesus, carved before 70 A. D. and perhaps by an eye witness to the crucifixion, among inscriptions on 11 early Christian burial urns found in a cave on the Jerusalem-Bethlehem road. The urns may provide the "oldest archeological record of Christianity" and an historical confirmation of the trial and crucifixion of Christ, the archeologists said. The inscriptions have not yet been translated fully.

A sect of Hebrews who followed Jesus, denounced Pontius Pilate and mourned the crucifixion of their leader was believed to have left the writings on the ossuaries in the cave. Pottery, lamps and bottles were discovered with the urns and transferred to the museum of Jewish antiquities for study, said Prof. Sukenik, director of antiquities at Hebrew university. He said a full statement would be issued when the inscriptions have been translated.

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Antioch News, 12 August 1949:

[Hazel]

I incidentally came upon this image today and it 'struck' me as symbolic of my perspective..

http://www.independent.co.uk/incomin...esusstatue.jpg


The probability that Yeshua existed in the time frame recorded is not something I would contest, neither would I doubt that his personal mission was to be a teacher of men regards our connectedness to the ALL. As for proving the veracity of the many stories recorded post his death.. such pursuits seem trivial and unnecessary beyond that important message and all that it encompasses for the benefit of mankind.

By the same token, unraveling the lies and manipulations towards gaining clarity, self sovereignty and truth is the core reason for the existence of this forum. And yes, the manipulations via the 'story' of Christianity is central to 'the lie' affecting millions and worthy of scrutiny.

[Milneman]

What does this mean for Christian faith?

That's the real question I think is important. I know 1flew hasn't had a chance to rant at me for a few weeks so here's your chance buddy!

How does this, as a Christian, impact my beliefs?

As a Christian, the best way I can sum up my core beliefs as what is described in "Mere Christianity" by C. S. Lewis. Namely, it includes the four virtues of prudence, justice, temperance, fortitude (or courage), faith, hope, and charity; and the cardinal law, love your neighbour as you love yourself. Last one probably the most difficult because loving others, especially those who you would consider enemies, is perhaps the most difficult thing in the world to do.

There are also other "laws" (not in the sense that a law is "this must be so or there are consequences" but in the sense that "if you do action "a" result "b" is likely to occur), such as "as you sow, so shall you reap", etc.

From this perspective, does the humanity or divinity of Christ effect any of these values? Does it diminish the value of maintaining a sense of prudence, justice, temperance, fortitude, faith, hope, or charity in one's life? I would argue no. Is there a possibility that in the corruption of leadership, namely what I would refer to as sin, that organizations would become so gloated that the values of mere Christianity would become lost? I love the scene in "The Godfather III" where Michael Corleone is visiting with a cardinal who will soon be elected "John Paul I". In this scene, the cardinal picks a stone up out of the base of a fountain and explains that although the stone has been sitting in water for many years, the centre of the stone is not wet. He breaks open the stone and shows it to be perfectly dry. In the same way, he says, men have been surrounded by Christianity for 2 millennia and the true message has not permeated their souls.

There are several other posts here on Avalon which touch on the authentic nature of scripture, the authentic nature of Jesus, and how the church in its current form is corrupted so far from what Jesus actually taught, what he actually was. As much as I would like to pick up a pen and disagree and defend against such arguments, I don't think it's possible. The very nature of what Christendom has become over the centuries puts it in the position where it is due the justice that must come to it. The danger, I think, is that the message can be lost in all of this. Something I think I tried and failed to do in the post I wrote in this thread earlier this year. There is wisdom in the gnostic gospels, especially when read in the context of other scripture, and along with Plato. There is discrepancy in the scholarship of the talpiot tomb video/research; however having said that, if one looks hard enough in any corner, one can find discrepancies in any argument. So I won't go down that road again. We believe what we believe because we often have reasons that we need to believe what we believe. So in fairness, I need to believe what I believe because it gives me a sense of purpose, an inner sense of peace, and when I put the facts together and look at them as a complete package, it makes sense to me. Which doesn't mean it's going to make sense to everyone else. That's what creates the differences in our individual noetic structures. What interests me however is not the individual beliefs but that we do in fact believe. And that's where the real answer lies I think.

So in terms of the arguments presented in this thread, the conclusion that I come up with is this: they do not impact my Christian belief because they are not incompatible with mere Christianity.

Your milage will vary...lol I can guarantee it.

[Hazel]

Heh..Milneman

not intending to trivialize your impressive intellect on the subject in any way shape or form...

but l really enjoy the pop-up in any thread on Avalon of your angry chicken in the coupe..... a stunner



Right-on!

[webyourstuff]

Posted by gittarpikk (here)

Can you remember anything at all about the book and what was in it? Was it a private document, or a published book? Can you remember any clues that may help someone to find it?

For some odd reason, I am getting a gut feeling this is the Urantia Book. I have seen some posts from 'elsewhere' that state to go back to the Urantia book as it has the most accurate depiction of how things are...and historical records in it...

just a hunch,..

I was exposed to it in the early 90's (same bbs forum, Bill, I was involved in that contained the exerps of Joe M. I sent you months ago).

There is a lot of relevance contained in it ..and when I was gleaning it... thought someday I should go back to this for a thorough read as I was doing more investigating its origin rather than what it was saying at the time...I still have this book and it is available in digital online free..and I think has an audio version as well...hmmm

I am curious how he will answer..

I read the Urantia book. Correction. I read as much as I could stomach. Doesn't sound like it at all to me.

[Finefeather]

Posted by buares (here)
Here is the full documentary:

Part.1 - 2007 - The Lost Tomb of Jesus

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=81Gx7YSb1mU

To get this video in perspective one needs to view this series, below, which effectively debunks the logic and evidence of the documentary by Cameron...called 'The Lost Tomb of Jesus'.
I am not suggesting one or the other is correct, but it is clear to me that 'The Lost Tomb of Jesus' has some serious flaws.

The Cameron video is all bent on giving Jesus a wife...and effectively causing havoc in the Christian world (may not be that bad an idea)...whereas the other...below...is obviously trying to protect the narrow view of the Christian and to keep the truth from being revealed.

My view is that both are incorrect.

The fact is that both of these videos are proof that what true esoterics has to say about this story is still intact...despite the reluctance of most people to see it.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=1d78xdHLR3Y

For those interested in the esoteric view on this subject read this pdf. To clarify the term 'esoteric' it is important that we understand it as the information which has been handed down directly from the Planetary Hierarchy, and not some esoteric information which is concocted up by occultists and other philosophers.

http://www.laurency.com/L1e/kl1_2.pdf

[chocolate]

---> start of rambling:
To comment on the portrait/painting Bill had posted some few posts ago, which I have seen before someplace else, too. If necessary, delete my post, but I cannot help it right now.

The painting reminds me to my mother almost in every detail. Her eyes, her hair, her nose, and partially the lips. With the beard I have to become creative to see if there is a general resemblance. What is left in me is mostly the eyes... with time they get greener.

To add, my mother is born on the old calendar's date of Christmas, and her name is ... Christine (in Bulgarian is a bit different spelling, but I use the English one here).
I am sure! ... just coincidence. <--- end of rambling.

Thank you for the books and the videos! I have shared them with others interested, and I know they are also grateful.

[Milneman]

Finefeather,

Another good book on this subject is "Christianity and the Hellenistic World" by Dr. Ronald Nash (dead cheap on Amazon btw). If you want a good exposition on the influences of Hellenistic (or lack thereof) philosophical models on the early church, this is a deadly read.

[donk]

Hopefully this is not a repeat, Thomas Sheridan's guest give a compelling argument that the character of Jesus was a creation of the Roman Empire (with some Gnostic mixed in as they were only allowed Christianity at the time), I found it very interesting:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Uuz5HochkYo

It's Joe Atwell, his site is here:

http://caesarsmessiah.com/

....I apologize if it's been discussed, I just came across it and really smelt what this dude was cooking...it made a lot of sense.

[1 flew over]

Posted by Milneman (here)
What does this mean for Christian faith?

That's the real question I think is important. I know 1flew hasn't had a chance to rant at me for a few weeks so here's your chance buddy!

How does this, as a Christian, impact my beliefs?

Your milage will vary...lol I can guarantee it.

Howdy Brother!

I've been off for a while, factually most of my friends say that I have been off most of my life. Anyway.

My hackles get up when anyone tries to use a single author, book or especially a youtube video to PROVE something that has been debated by very learned folk for 20 centuries. My bulls**itometer constantly goes off the scale so I use a 20 to 1 ratio of fiction or opinion vs fact especially on anything that I see on youtube.

I have never had anything but respect for your Christian beliefs in that I used to be one when churches drove me away. I have little use for people who don’t have some sort of strong opinions as long as when they engage their beliefs they do not turn off their thoughts and experiences. You seem to be one of those who can do both and I applaud you. As I mentioned a while ago, over the last year I have been involved with Christ Consciousness workshops and in about 3 weeks I will be in another Gnostic Christian workshop. I spend literally months per year working in many different ways to better connect with and understand the Divine.

I will need to engage the BSmeter and watch the new batch of videos and then I can better rant at you. Until then I hope things are well with you.

May your God be with You
1 Flew Over

[chocolate]

When reading the last post and the one who provoked it ( peace ! ) I felt this strange urge to say a few things of my own, portraits and books aside.

I am probably the only person on the thread who has never read the Bible. I admit, I haven't done that. I have read a children's version of it, if that makes my guilt lesser!
In all my life of reading, I never ever managed to get engaged with the Bible scriptures. I have heard speeches and explanations presented in many various places, but that will be as far as my actual factual knowledge would go. It never clicked with me what I was supposed to be getting from that 'book'. I have faith, I think I have enough for several of me, but that faith was never derived from reading a book with some commandments. With time, with all the change I can understand why I did not read the compilation, and I sometimes can sigh with a relief, because I was feeling guilty for not doing my duty.

I am one who likes experience better than just reading about obscure passages I am supposed to take as pure truth. I like to find some meaning that relates to my life here. That is how I could connect better to hinuism, buddhism, or sufism, than to the Christian creation story. It is partially my wrongdoing, because If I cannot relate in practical way I cannot relate, but still.
I have faith, that no one in this existence can shatter to pieces until I am ready to transform it into something different. But it doesn't come from outside 'teachings' of any color or shape, because it comes from my inner sense of peace, hope or love to what is, if you will. I think in those changing times, I have found a place that I never knew existed in me where I fell absolutely no fear anymore from anything or anyone, but that feeling doesn't look like the christian's version of the garden of Eden or Paradise (or Hell ), and the wholly father doesn't have a beard and an 'angel' flying around him. My settings are really my own creation, and I will be happy to share glimpses of them with whoever is interested, but I will not go an try to prove I know everything, or that my version is the correct one to have. From time to time I only mention what I think, but from the responses I gather, I see my view is unorthodox, and will continue to be so. But that is okay and I can live this way, with or without any additional arguments presented here.

Having said that, I think this thread was created exactly because of this dissonance that was becoming heavy on all of us, Christians by baptism, or by choice, or by accident (I was baptized, but never mind that, I never truly felt I belonged anywhere in particular). With the help of the information presented here a lot of the weed was taken out of the otherwise substantial teachings, I think, at least for me. I know more now than I knew a few years back. The arguments in the thread actually made me understand the whole story better, and also why I couldn't relate to something that was originally good and correct. So it is not a matter of observing arguments here that are supposed to lessen anyone's christian belief.

How was this for a rant? It actually sprung from me, but not as an attempt to be a rant.

[1 flew over]

Posted by chocolate (here)
When reading the last post and the one who provoked it ( peace ! ) I felt this strange urge to say a few things of my own, portraits and books aside.

How was this for a rant? It actually sprung from me, but not as an attempt to be a rant.

Chocolate

Good to meet you! Saw you over on source mission and around.

I have never read the Bible completely. Started it a few times but always had disagreements concerning what I felt and knew to be true and what was written as being Gods own true word, damn I never knew that he wrote in English. I was just about thrown out of confirmation many times for asking uncomfortable or unorthodox questions. Probably the only reason I was not was because my parents were strong church financial supporters.

I currently consider myself a Druid, Celtic, Native American, Indigenous African, Sufi, Gnostic, Hindi, Bahia, Buddhist, Egyptian, Sumerian, Kabalistic, spiritual entity having a human experience. What I watched in more areas than I care to reemerge into are leaders, priests, Melchizedeks, pastors, rabbis, pandits, ministers, monks, gurus etc who are doing ritual that they and their predecessors have done but they seem to have long lost the feeling for or their connection to the Divine, just going through the actions. I currently practice different primarily indigenous practices because if I do something wrong then at least I will not burn in hell for all of eternity as I was taught.

I love ceremony, the organic flow and building of the personal connection. When I was working at being a Christian I would sneak off sometimes and attend a revivalist Baptist Church of a close black friend of mine. I never felt excluded and I loved the connection that some of the people had through singing, jumping up on the pews and screaming to someone/something that they took as the Divine. I could never get there and could never accept what was taken as truth in their scripture. Factually I was envious for the connection they seemed to have.

I have prayed with Black spiritual elders in Africa, done sweat lodges with chiefs and medicine men, prayed at 9 different temples in Bali in formal Balinese attire, journeyed with shamans, practiced Chi Gung with Masters in China, been to Lakota Sun dances, been to a cremation of a high Hindi priest, meditated at ashrams, chanted with masters, practiced with Huna shamans, done fire puja with a pujari and much more than I can currently remember and I have problems trying to say that I am any one thing or follow any one practice. They are all looking for and moving toward the same thing and I have little use for any practice that tells me that theirs is the only true way. My viewpoint of what I see as “God” is way bigger than that, he/she/it really doesn’t sweat the small stuff and its all small stuff on that scale.

I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread in that it has allowed me to further explore and question the religion of my youth. I still agree with many of their teachings but I cannot limit myself to the practices, limitations and rules.

Wow, one glass of wine and a full page rant. I can see why I do not do drugs.

I still need to watch the last few videos.

Be Well
1 Flew Over

[chocolate]

a bit off topic -- >

Thank you, 1 flew over, for your post. It seems to me it will be a real pleasure for me to able to meet you in person. I know that is most probably impossible, but the idea seems to really appeal to me. I am a 'spring chicken', though (as one person seem to call the youngsters), so I guess the pleasure will be all mine.
It was very interesting (for me) to see your sincere point of view. After all, I see the whole issue in a similar manner, just having a bit shorter time to 'experience' it.

We all have our ways, some with wine, some with coffee . But drugs I don't do either. Can you imagine if I did?

And because I read on few pages before people wishing to meet Jesus, there is a list of people I wish I could 'meet' one 'day':
Leonardo da Vinci, first and always;
and than in no particular order of significance: John Forbes Nash, Tesla, Albert Einstein, Beethoven, Igor Stravinsky, Wagner, Samael Aun Weor... all of those who understand (or understood) how this level of existence is constructed.

1 flew over,
My initial impulse was sparked by another's opinion. <-- end of off topic

[Milneman]

Do one better. Put youtube away. If you want solid, factual stuff that can stand the test of a bull****meter, or better yet, a Socratic/Platonic test of truth (now there's an idea!) take a look at some of the scholarly literature that's been published on the subject. Let me know if you can get ahold of Nash's book for a start. I'm still digging in the libraries, and reading for that matter. Good resources I shall post here, both for and against.

Because the best conclusion about any subject is one that considers all the facts, including the ones that sometimes set off the shullbitmeter (damn that sounds Hegellian doesn't it? LOL)

[chocolate]

Milneman! I have a book Agape was very kind to share with me. I haven't read it all yet: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post787406 it's in the post, download the attachment.