The gut of most disease... NOT what you think!

[conk]

Posted by Dawn (here)

Molly: I would love to try fermenting some veggies this summer when the garden is going! Thanks for all the info & especially the links & vids

Especially the sauerkraut one.. maaaaaaan I could eat like 10 pounds of that in one day lol. I'd love to just make it myself.

I know! This thread is enticing! BUT WAIT!!!!

MY LATEST INFORMATION IS THAT YOU MAY BE POISONING YOUR BODY IF YOU DO THIS!!!! Please, OH (!) PLEASE! Take a look at my latest thread. And... please don't do this to yourself.

Here is the link to this important information: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...516#post781516

Dawn, I don't think you intend to downplay the importance of gut bacteria, but to simply chose wisely. Chose foods for fermenting that are not suspected of harboring mold, is that correct?

Two or three years ago a holistic practitioner tested me with an electronic device that detects and measures known and cataloged frequencies. She detected the frequency of mold in my body. She likely did not go far enough after concluding my mold came from my love of peanut butter and peanuts in general. With your new information it may be that the mold present was from mulitple sources.

Dang it, the Bulletproof coffee is SOLD OUT. Will keep visiting and perhaps get an email alert when stocks are replenished.

Great new information for us. Very appreciative!

[chocolate]

I never had any problem accepting ideas when they are based on mutual and hopefully full spectrum understanding. But if anyone really needs to know about someone's new brand of coffee or ideology, it is fine by me.

Have you ever thought about the amount of microorganism that invade you body by drinking water (poor quality right now everywhere), breathing air (also quite not the same as before), kissing someone, having sex, giving birth, etc? If you have, I am sure most of us have, than maybe you have heard that the body have its ways of dealing with the problems. Once you understand those ways than no amount of current trends can catch you off guard. With the acidic level in some parts of your body together with the help of your saliva, stomach acid and other bodily fluids, most mold and other pathogens don't have a chance. But that is when you take proper care of your food in general.

Fermented foods are safe.
Not sure how I feel about the new coffee and the bulletproof ideology, though.
I will check it out, may be a bit later.

My current coffee comes in small batches in an air sealed package (vacuum, meaning no air). The microtoxins that have been in the coffee while growing are partially gone by the time it is roasted. I think I will take my chance with what is left inside.

Information is important when it goes together with understanding.
I have been making yogurt, kombucha, kefir, lacto fermented vegetables, sourdough and bread with it for quite some time. Making wine and other alcohol is a trademark of my father's family. Grandfather was a beekeeper.

I guess there are a few things that I can still learn while being around, but mostly I run with what I have right now.

[Dawn]

conk: Dawn, I don't think you intend to downplay the importance of gut bacteria, but to simply chose wisely. Chose foods for fermenting that are not suspected of harboring mold, is that correct?

Two or three years ago a holistic practitioner tested me with an electronic device that detects and measures known and cataloged frequencies. She detected the frequency of mold in my body. She likely did not go far enough after concluding my mold came from my love of peanut butter and peanuts in general. With your new information it may be that the mold present was from mulitple sources.

Dang it, the Bulletproof coffee is SOLD OUT. Will keep visiting and perhaps get an email alert when stocks are replenished.

Chocolate: I never had any problem accepting ideas when they are based on mutual and hopefully full spectrum understanding. But if anyone really needs to know about someone's new brand of coffee or ideology, it is fine by me.

Have you ever thought about the amount of microorganism that invade you body by drinking water (poor quality right now everywhere), breathing air (also quite not the same as before), kissing someone, having sex, giving birth, etc? If you have, I am sure most of us have, than maybe you have heard that the body have its ways of dealing with the problems. Once you understand those ways than no amount of current trends can catch you off guard. With the acidic level in some parts of your body together with the help of your saliva, stomach acid and other bodily fluids, most mold and other pathogens don't have a chance. But that is when you take proper care of your food in general.

Fermented foods are safe.

I want to make it very clear here that I am not touting a brand of coffee! If you think that is what I am doing then you are missing the point completely... and your ignorance could cause you real issues down the line.

I realize that humans have eaten fermented foods during their long history. I also realize that this entire thread is based on how wonderful this is and how health protective it is. Please notice that human bodies are still dying, in the modern world, before age 100. Are you aware that this is not normal in many parts of the planet? Human bodies should live to at least 150- 1,000years of age... and they do this all the time.... so .... we must be doing something incorrectly which we could improve.

the BulletProof information has been given to us all for free. It is not necessary to drink the coffee (which always shows as 'SOLD OUT' on INTERNET EXPLORER FOR SOME REASON! Try a different browser and you will find you can order it without a problem). The coffee enhances the effect of the MCT oil and grass fed butter. High quality green tea that is not moldy would also be a wonderful choice and is discussed on BulletProof. There are good reasons for trying to find mold-free coffee for brain support. These reasons are carefully detailed on Bulletproofexec.com

Chocolate, the mold in the coffee mostly comes from the way it is processed. If you can find arabica beans which have been wet processed they might be micotoxin free. Trader Joes actually carries 'Ethiopian Coffee' which seems OK to my body. In 'wet processing' the coffee fruit is removed from the inner bean right away so that it does not dry in place over the coffee bean as molds attack it. Roasting does not remove the micotoxins. If you research micotoxins on the internet you will find a lot of info

Also... this is not a fear campaign about molds. I agree that we kiss, touch door knobs, breath the air, and generally live on a planet filled with opportunistic organisms who would love to eat our cells. The problem is that so many of us have eaten GMO foods with strange DNA, eaten some factory fresh foods, taken antibiotics, and been immunized. All of this has weakened our biome (inner garden of friendly flora and fauna). Many of us are just not in tip top health. Current agricultural practices have damage the soil biome which means that our top soil is extremely depleted and our food crops are not healthy. Our bodies are under an onslaught of inflammation causing moldy foods, EMFs, toxins, etc.

One of the reasons that we are having such a difficult time might be that the GMO foods swap genes with our biome and our cells. GMO food designed to kill insects who eat it also kill our friendly gut bacteria. In addition gene swapping between fungus and bacteria is well known. This is behind the current aggressive molds and fungus which have created brand new disease. And it is likely behind the extreme rise in cancer.

We are foolish to live in fear of this and try to be aseptic. Instead it is wise to support the health of our bodies by choosing not to eat mold filled food with every meal. Eating organic food is a good idea too as these have been grown on soil with a healthy and balanced micro biome.

Choosing to eat moldy fermented foods is not wise. I remember when I made kimchee and published the results in this thread. The recipe called for me to taste it after 3 days... which I unfortunately did. It tasted and smelled like rotted food (UCH!!!!!).... then a week later it tasted like delicious kimchee. Fermented foods rely on acidophilus to create acetic acid which kills competing fungus and mold.... but the mycotoxins these organisms made are still in the fermented food.

You eat fermented foods... you are eating mold mycotoxins.

Your choice. Now you know

[chocolate]

Dawn, I don't think you are touting that brand of coffee. It was an expression, mistake on my part for not expressing that idea differently.
I know from your posts you are also searching for information, not advocating for personal gain.

What is bothering me is that we seem to go from one end of the balance to the other, while there has been valuable information and already discovered paths, that is all.
I am sensitive to all kinds of new ideology that just takes parts of already exiting ones and spins it around for someone's benefit, not necessarily for our common benefit.
It is true one needs to be aware and careful while choosing food, clothes, utensils, etc. So that part I understand.

We are not in a very good health mostly because of modern medicine, industry waste, some vaccinations, partially because of GMOs. But we are not as weak as it sounds. Fasting, old traditional health care and remedies, good activity, proper state of mind and education, those are powerful tools still. After few more years if nothing changes we will reach the point of no return, but [I hope] we are still in for a change.

I still think eating fermented food isn't as dangerous as it sounds based on what you have written. I will reread it carefully once more, right now my eyes are a bit tired and my mind is occupied by other thoughts.

[Dawn]

Chocolate: I still think eating fermented food isn't as dangerous as it sounds based on what you have written. I will reread it carefully once more, right now my eyes are a bit tired and my mind is occupied by other thoughts.

Chocolate, I don’t know you or your circumstances. This is the difficulty of attempting communication through writing to each other on the internet. However, the symptoms of tired eyes and occupied mind are EXACTLY what the Bulletproof diet addresses. I just don’t have those symptoms anymore on this diet!

I am posting a duplicate of post I put in my new thread because it is so important to correcting mis information presented on this thread in ignorance by myself and others. Avalon discourages duplicate threads, however this is SO important that I think it is useful:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Why Yogurt and Probiotics Make You Fat and Foggy



A terrific article that is worth studying
http://www.bulletproofexec.com/why-y...fat-and-foggy/

Here is a synopsis:
Our gut biome has changed due to modern farming and factory fresh foods

Eating organic means that the soil your food was grown on is alive with many good organisms

Disturbance in our gut boime is adding to a recent rise in histamine intolerance. This leads to things like:
** inflammation
*****hives
********skin irritation
***********throat tightening
**************increased heart rate
*****************nasal congestion
*******************migraines
*********************fatigue
************************heartburn
****************************reflux
******************************weight gain

Histamine intolerance is cumulative and not always immediate

Different types of bacteria and probiotics also play a part in histamine regulation. Some probiotics are necessary for proper gut function (where histamine lowering enzymes DAO form), but some strains actually raise histamine levels. The different strains of studied probiotics are categorized as (1) histamine producing bacteria, (2) neutral bacteria, or (3) histamine degrading bacteria.7-1

1. Histamine producing bacteria: Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus reuteri, and Lactobacillus bulgaricus (Found in most yogurts and fermented foods).

2. Neutral bacteria: Streptococcus thermophiles (also in yogurt) and Lactobacillus rhamnosus (shown to down regulate histamine receptors and up-regulate anti-inflammatory agents)

3. Histamine degrading bacteria: Bifidobacterium infantis (found in breast milk), Bifidobacterium longum, Lactobacillus plantarum, and some soil-based organisms.

Some of these bacteria form histamine when they break down protein in foods, even vegetables, whether the food is in your gut or fermenting in your kitchen. Now you know why I’m skeptical about throwing a bunch of cabbage into a bucket to let it ferment. You just don’t know what you’re getting.

In this article there is a sobering story about taking a pre-biotic with ‘The Pearl’ (this is a high quality probiotic touted as one of the best ones you can buy). Dave experienced bloating within 30 minutes and gained 8 pounds within 14 hours. It took him a full week to loose those 8 pounds. Why? The probiotic organisms in ‘the Pearl’ produce histamine....

Even ONE course of antibiotics can wreak havoc on your biome population, ruining your health forever ... unless you take positive steps to correct the situation.

I spent a lot of time researching what probiotics contain histamine DEGRADING bacteria so that I can add them to my current health regime. I hope you do the same.

[conk]

I am extremely grateful for this info Dawn. How do we repopulate our gut bacteria if not by fermented foods? Supplements are weak alternatives. What if someone's bacterial colony was decimated by antibiotics. How do they restore balance? Must it be through soil microbes from plants that arer grown optimally?

[Dawn]

Conc: I am extremely grateful for this info Dawn. How do we repopulate our gut bacteria if not by fermented foods? Supplements are weak alternatives. What if someone's bacterial colony was decimated by antibiotics. How do they restore balance? Must it be through soil microbes from plants that arer grown optimally?

I think a big part of the answer comes from how we eat. It is critically important NOT to eat ANY grains or seeds. It is equally important NOT to eat many other foods which contain natural poisons, called lectins. I have tried to do this over and over... failing each time over a period of months as cravings kicked in. The Bulletproof diet I am currently on is probably the best chance I have ever found of remaining on such a diet without effort. This is because the special mold-free coffee that begins the day actually binds to the same opioid receptors which cause us to crave wheat. This means that our addiction to bread can be released in a painless way, without any cravings at all. Not only that, but it turns out the mold free coffee is a very powerful health food.

Taking commercial strains of histamine reducing bacteria works if you also do NOT feed the bad bacteria at the same time. So, if your diet is devoid of sugar, devoid of anti-nutrients, and low in starches.. then you feed the healthy bacteria and the others begin to die out.... But wait! You must stop eating foods containing 'bad' histamine forming bacteria all the time (kefir and fermented foods). There are some pretty good products out there that contain only inflammation reducing bacteria. I spent some time researching them online and found a number of them.

I have to say that I consider myself still in transition Conk, but I am MUCH healthier than when I started on this lifestyle 6 weeks ago.

If anyone on this thread feels bloated after eating kefir... then please don't have any more. I was fooled into thinking this was a Herxheimer reaction, but I now understand it was my reaction to the histamine produced by the kefir organisms. Unfortunately I continued to eat it for a long time after I noted this reaction and I became more sensitive to histamine....

[onawah]

So are you including homemade kefir using kefir grains and raw organic milk or raw coconut milk, Dawn?
How do you know which bacteria are in homemade fermented foods?

I think a lot of the problem traces back to soil.
If the soil is good, the seeds aren't GMOs or hybrid beyond recognition, they will be healthy.
And of course, only non-commercial soils these days are any good, such as organic farmers are using.

Sprouting seeds and grains changes their nutritional value greatly, and I think some of them are still safe.
Dawn, I don't know if 6 weeks is really long enough to know if this new diet is going to work for you on a long term basis.
So much of this new information is in contradiction to what has been known to work in communities of very long-lived peoples, especially re fermented foods.
But I agree that much has changed on the planet recently in the way we produce food, so I am keeping an open mind.


[QUOTE=Dawn;782895]

You must stop eating foods containing 'bad' histamine forming bacteria all the time (kefir and fermented foods).

[Dawn]

Onawah, I'd suggest that you go to www.BulletproofExec.com and begin to look at the information in detail. I know that you have some health challenges, and you just might find your answers here. We are not the people of history. I am a person who was on antibiotics about 60% of the time for a 20 year period until I became allergic to every single one of them. Antibiotics are actually made from the micotoxins of mold. So I have had to find my way towards health and it has been somewhat of a continuing struggle. It is said that anyone who has been on these has a problem.

How do you know which bacteria are in homemade fermented foods?

I think a lot of the problem traces back to soil.
If the soil is good, the seeds aren't GMOs or hybrid beyond recognition, they will be healthy.
And of course, only non-commercial soils these days are any good, such as organic farmers are using.

Sprouting seeds and grains changes their nutritional value greatly, and I think some of them are still safe.

From what I now know I'd give the following answers to you:
1. I think your are absolutely correct about the soil. This is going to be a continuing issue for mankind as we are all victims of corporate farming

2. Your question... how do we know what is in home fremented food.... nails the problem exactly. Even though home fermenting ends up with a product where the lactic acid fermenting bacteria are the 'winners' and are prevelant in the food... this does not mean that molds and fungus did not grow in the batch at some point and have left the food filled with spores and micotoxins. Don't eat home fermented foods.

3. Sprouted seeds are filled with lectins in most cases. These are poisons the plants make to defend themselves and are very inflammatory except in certain plants. Just spend your time educating yourself on which are not good for you. The best foods are the anti-inflammatory vegetables. There are vegetables that have pre-biotic fibre and anti estrogen compounds which reduce inflammation.

4. I have been on this diet for 7 weeks now (I've been tracking my IQ for the past 3.5 weeks now)... I agree... I will know more as time progresses. I have read so many posts by others on the diet who are using the Bulletproof forum. For me, I was having chronic diarrhea that was quite severe and this ended abruptly the day I changed to the new way of eating. There is something called 'refeed days' within the diet where you eat nearly 0 protein and a starchy dinner. On these days I suffer from bloating in my digestive tract... I attribute this to the inner biota I've grown during my 2 years on kefir and sauerkraut. I think I have a gut full of histamine producing bacteria and yeast. Currently I have a 2 pronged approach to changing this... (1) I am starving them out through this diet which is very clean and low starch (2) I am taking antihistamine probiotics containing inflammation reducing strains of bacteria.. I will let you know what is happening.

[meat suit]

Dawn,
I suggest you add a comment to your opening post on this thread, making new readers aware of your change of mind as early as possible....

[chocolate]

The information provided here is much appreciated, Dawn.

In my opinion we are different, we live in different parts of the world with different conditions (soil or otherwise) and needs.

My eyes and brain suffer because I work on a computer 16 hours a day, making drawings and the results are inevitable.

There was a point when I thought I should stop eating yogurt. I did stop for a while, although that is one thing I loved dearly. It turned out later after going back to yogurt, that yogurt and kefir work great with my chemistry. I am not tracking my IQ [i never understood how to even test my IQ], so I cannot prove what difference my food has on my brains.
Still, I think of my body as a strong and wise machinery with better life response than my logical mind, so if I really feel the need to eat something, I eat it.

Wherever there is a discussion about gluten intolerance and grain provoked-related conditions, I discovered the opinion that it is not so much the grain itself with the components that block absorption of other nutrients in the body, as much as it is the mineral homeostasis and specifics of the body. One way to deal with the problem is to soak the grains in water with added little bit of lemon juice or whey. Making sprouting grains also deals with some of the later problems. But as I said, it is a matter of choice, need and availability.
I live in an area (Bulgaria) where making yogurt and kefir happens on its own almost, and I love eating the products. It is that simple for me. If my IQ drops from time to time I will compensate with more gardening than decision making ( I am trying to make a joke ).

I am not with a medical [or nutritional science] background, but I have discovered that listening to what my body tells me works for me. When I decide to be hard-headed about it, not listening to what it tells me and going against the signals, I suffer. But I see life differently, much less concentrated on the material/physical part of it, and I think that a bit of a kink in the road is sometimes not so bad.

The conversation is much appreciated and I loved your in depth information!

Off topic---> I sincerely and deeply hope that you will continue on your path and feel better every day. I sense you are listening to your body too, and you are feeling much better already.
Having health problems is never an easy and pleasant situation.
I think [an opinion only] that may be after you regain some of your strength/health, you probably could add some of the food that you loved and miss from the past, since your body chemistry will be changing with time and the body will be healing the places that need healing.

When I was a kid my mother had filled me with antibiotics [I know that for a fact]. That resulted for me in very severe kidney problems, and probably other issues. After I figured out how to deal with the situations I also made changes to what I eat. One thing is certain, I haven't taken antibiotics for years and if I have the chance I never ever will.

The thread you started originally [I couldn't fully read it but I got the gist], I still think is important.
The bulletproof website I visited, quickly skimmed over and closed it. There is nothing new in it for me that would make me visit again. Whatever I read I agreed upon it in my mind, but that is something I have know for quite some time.

Apology for the derail! My intention was good.

[Dawn]

Meatsuit: Dawn, I suggest you add a comment to your opening post on this thread, making new readers aware of your change of mind as early as possible....

Great idea! Done!

And Chocolate, thank you for such a clear and carefully thought out post. I appreciate it. Your corner of the world does not have the GMO situation we suffer with in the US. You also do not have the feedlots that fatten cattle and other animals on fungus riddled and GMO grains. I actually have several friends who moved to Czechloslovakia and lost 40 pounds within just a few months... without dieting. It was myserious to them and perhaps the lack of fungus and GMO crops are the answer. I'm sure the healthier soil that has not been as abused by factory farming also contributes to better health. I also understand that most European countries have a limit on the amount of mold toxins coffee can contain ... we have no such limit in the United States. Our government is failing us in so many uncountable ways. It appears bent on trying to poison the entire US population.

[chocolate]

"It seems like every day, another scientific discovery is made showing the link between the bacteria in our gut and the health of the rest of our bodies. The best way to boost your gut bacteria is to consume nutrient- and probiotic-rich fermented foods. Here are just a few reasons why you should add them to your diet:

Fermented foods improve digestion. Fermenting our foods is sort of like pre-digesting them (sorry about the mental image!). That makes them easier to digest, and easier for our bodies to absorb their nutrients.

Fermentation actually makes foods more nutritious. On top of the fact that we can more easily absorb their nutrients, studies have shown that traditionally fermented dairy products actually provide more vitamins than conventional or even raw milk. Veggies, fruits, beans and grains also become more nutritious after they ferment.

Fermentation also helps get rid of anti-nutrients. Fermentation helps eliminate phytic acid, an anti-nutrient that hangs out in grains, beans, seeds and nuts. Reducing the phytic acid makes it easier for our guts to absorb minerals, so you get more bang for your buck."
source: http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-11664...hould-eat.html

Dawn, I noticed here we might have better soil and overall food, but the control over what is in the hypermarkets is so low that when I buy cheese or yogurt I have no idea what I am buying.
I like the organic TChibo Coffee which allegedly is labeled and certified in Germany, but who knows.
One good thing is that the US people are starting to do something about the situation they are in.

[Dawn]

Chocolate: Fermented foods improve digestion. Fermenting our foods is sort of like pre-digesting them (sorry about the mental image!). That makes them easier to digest, and easier for our bodies to absorb their nutrients.

Fermentation actually makes foods more nutritious. On top of the fact that we can more easily absorb their nutrients, studies have shown that traditionally fermented dairy products actually provide more vitamins than conventional or even raw milk. Veggies, fruits, beans and grains also become more nutritious after they ferment.

Fermentation also helps get rid of anti-nutrients. Fermentation helps eliminate phytic acid, an anti-nutrient that hangs out in grains, beans, seeds and nuts. Reducing the phytic acid makes it easier for our guts to absorb minerals, so you get more bang for your buck."
source: http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-11664...hould-eat.html

I was 100% in agreement with everything you wrote here until I became ill from such a diet. When I eat fermented foods I now have a very immediate and bad inflammation reaction. Home fermented foods contain many good bacteria, however they also contain mystery 'guests' such as molds.

I do not have this reaction to the simple and clean diet I am now on.

My eyes and brain suffer because I work on a computer 16 hours a day, making drawings and the results are inevitable.

About your computer... have you downloaded the free program from justgetflux.com which adjusts your computer screen at sunset? It has been discovered that the amount of blue light emanating from your computer screen is very unhealthy after sunset. It prevents your body from manufacturing melatonin. This in turn prevents your body from rebuilding itself while it sleeps at night. Just this one change made a difference in my life.... and my computer screen is still easy to see in the evening... it is just not as bright in the blue ranges.

[onawah]

I'm open to anything that is better than homemade cultured and fermented foods, but so far, I've had no problems, and it's been beneficial to me, and is certainly affordable, which is a big factor for many, myself included.
Using fresh, locally grown, organic, non-pasteurized foods for culturing and fermenting has got to make a lot of difference in what kind of results you get.

I normally would post this in the Forbidden Knowledge thread, but the info is so specific to the info on this thread, I'm posting it here:

The American Parasite: 250 Million Americans Infected
You can "poo-poo" this topic all you
want, but if you don't take the proper
actions, to ensure the health of your
gut, you will open yourself to chronic
conditions, such as arthritis, which are
incurable. Prevention is the best
medicine!

This cleverly hand-drawn animation,
created by an MD, is not selling any
products, but he is advocating that
you incorporate more probiotic foods
in your diet, such as pickles, olives,
sauerkraut, kefir yogurts - or any
other yogurts with high counts of
*active* lactobacillus bulgaricus.

If you don't like these foods or
otherwise don't see a way to
incorporate them into your regular diet,
he advises you to take these active
probiotics in capsule form. These
friendly "fauna" will balance out the
nasty "flora" of candida, which is a
silent army of bad little critters in
your digestive tract, that gives you
food cravings to feed itself with things
that are bad for YOU.

Not only does this video get into the
wide-ranging medical and behavioral
effects of not properly managing the
health of the largest internal organ of
your body, it also gets into the industrial
and political history and back-handed
deals, which have led to our modern diet,
which makes us fatigued, malnourished
- and yet obese.

Candida is parasite that uses your body
as its personal feeding ground, taking
over first your stomach, then your
entire gastrointestinal tract, forcing you
to crave the foods it wants...while slowly
destroying your body from the inside out.

Governments are finally admitting that
this is real. Measures have been
proposed in New York and the country of
Mexico to try and stop it.

People hated New York City's Mayor
Bloomberg's failed ban on the sale of soft
drinks (containing less than 70% natural
juice) in portions of over 16 oz. Although
the manner in which he went about
enforcing laws around this was far from
ideal, he was right that you shouldn't be
drinking this stuff. In fact, Bloomberg's
position was far more moderate than that
of a Dutch politician, who has proposed
that sugar become a controlled substance,
like all others that are known to be
addictive.

I don't think that it is up to any state to
enforce how much soda we drink. I think
it is up to each individual to become
informed about the hazards to their health,
lurking on every food shelf and to care
for oneself accordingly - or else, suffer the
consequences...

Video (almost 30 mins):

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=p9-aleeQ2ho

http://www.ForbiddenKnowledgeTV.com/page/25762.html[/YOUTUBE]

[enfoldedblue]

Hi

Dawn it is great that you have found something that works so well for you!

It is fascinating the way this thread has progressed. A few things come to mind upon exploring it.

There is always going to be a new band wagon in the alternative health community.

With so much information available no matter what food we search we will find claims for and against it.

There are very few absolutes in regards to food. So far the few things that I have not found much controversy around is : Avacado, broccoli, turmeric...that all I can think of off hand. Even humble garlic which has so many documented health benefits has controversy around it.

There is no doubt (at least to me) that the modern western diet is damaging to health, and the more we eat whole organic unprocessed food the better. Beyond that I think it is dangerous to say or think we have found the holy grail of nutrition (unless we make it very clear we are only speaking for ourselves). I have seen people heal serious health issues by changing to a raw vegan diet; others through paleo/ gaps style approaches; and others through increasing fermented food intake and avoiding toxins....

I think at the end of the day, because we are unique creatures with our own personal health puzzles we need take responsibility for our own health and listen carefully to our own body.


Since introducing fermented food into my diet I have noticed a great shift in my digestion. I definitely feel better including some fermented food in my diet.


For me I have found that I am best off avoiding extreme positions. Any extreme health measures, in my opinion, can potentially cause health issues down the road.

The mould issue does speak to me and makes me think that for me it might be better not to be so nonchalant about mould developing on the surface of a ferment. For a strong healthy person this might not be an issue...but with my health issues my intuition resonates with being aware of mould. But at the same time for me it doesn't feel right to go to extremes to avoid mould altogether as I believe the body needs to have a bit to work with in order to maintain a resistance.

For me I feel that including fermented foods and foods that inhibit the formation of moulds and yeast ( like rutabaga/swede, coconut oil, ginger etc) in my diet and avoiding foods like sugar etc that feed moulds and yeast is a balance that resonates at the moment. This may change with time.

However I also understand that some people have developed strong sensitivities to moulds and for these people it may be beneficial to be highly cautious.


I personally would not be so quick to reject this thread. I think there is some great information here, that while may not be a key for some, could prove very useful to others.

I just came across this experiment by Dr. Emoto that I think brings up another interesting dimension of this discussion:

The rice experiment is another famous Emoto demonstration of the power of negative thinking (and conversely, the power of positive thinking.) Dr Emoto placed portions of cooked rice into two containers. On one container he wrote “thank you” and on the other “you fool”. He then instructed school children to say the labels on the jars out loud everyday when they passed them by. After 30 days, the rice in the container with positive thoughts had barely changed, while the other was moldy and rotten.

http://themindunleashed.org/2014/01/...around-us.html

[Hervé]

Posted by enfoldedblue (here)
[...]

I just came across this experiment by Dr. Emoto that I think brings up another interesting dimension of this discussion:

The rice experiment is another famous Emoto demonstration of the power of negative thinking (and conversely, the power of positive thinking.) Dr Emoto placed portions of cooked rice into two containers. On one container he wrote “thank you” and on the other “you fool”. He then instructed school children to say the labels on the jars out loud everyday when they passed them by. After 30 days, the rice in the container with positive thoughts had barely changed, while the other was moldy and rotten.

http://themindunleashed.org/2014/01/...around-us.html

Thanks for the reminder!

The crux of the matter: Programming!

How many generations have gone through that one: "Don't put that in your mouth! Don't even touch it! It's poo-poo/caca/etc..." Even worse for North American where the two archenemies were "commies" and... microbes... everywhere and "out to get you"... made a fortune to chemical companies providing cleaning product companies with weapons to fight the war for "cleanliness" against those bugs...

[Dawn]

enfoldedblue: The mould issue does speak to me and makes me think that for me it might be better not to be so nonchalant about mould developing on the surface of a ferment. For a strong healthy person this might not be an issue...but with my health issues my intuition resonates with being aware of mould. But at the same time for me it doesn't feel right to go to extremes to avoid mould altogether as I believe the body needs to have a bit to work with in order to maintain a resistance.

Just to be clear... the problem is beyond the mold. All mold and fungus excrete mycotoxins into the food they are eating. These poisons have the effect eliminating competition for the food because the mycotoxins are poisonous to 'others'. So... if your food HAS (at one time) had fungus or mold growing in it which is now dead... it is still filled with mycotoxin poison.

Now, if your body is young and healthy it has the ability to detoxify some of this, and it stores the rest in various places (like fatty tissue, joint cartilage, and so on). Over a lifetime these toxins build up in the body and illness sets in. There is very strong evidence that cancer is actually a result of this.

I want to thank you for the reminder about gratitude Enflodedblue. This is all important all of the time. It is my personal experience that the human mind and the human consciousness is, to a large extent, shared. This has meant that if others around the globe are not in a constant state of gratitude and love, then it is challenging for me to remain in such a state. I have never personally met anyone who is 100% in a state of gratitude and love at all times and in relation to all things. When the soil is tilled, the seeds planted, the food grown, the food harvested, the food shipped, the grocery store displaying the food.... are all the people involved in a state of gratitude all of the time?

Perhaps it is wise to avoid foods that are known to contain high levels of toxins
~~~~~all manufactured and packaged foods
~~~~~~~grains
~~~~~~~~~~~seeds
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~members of the nightshade family (goji berries, tomatoes, eggplants, peppers)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~meat, eggs, fish, and dairy products made from sick animals
when possible.

I don't think this has to be a fear thing... I think it is just a matter of awareness.

There are levels of health. If you have never eaten fresh organic produce, then switching to a diet containing these can cause a sudden surge in your health and energy. If you have not had probiotics in quantity, then switching to fermented foods is a step in the right direction. If you have been a raw food vegetarian like I have been much of my life, then adding in healthy pasture raised animal foods causes a health improvement.

It is all about becoming aware and conscious of what is going on around you.

And speaking of gratitude... is it possible that TPTB have an expectation that the 'factory fresh' food they create will reduce the population size and send more sick people into the medical industry looking for cures? Perhaps eating the way TPTB have encouraged us to is actually stepping into a trap they have made with a purpose in mind. This is just an open question for me. Whether planned or not ... the way we live now is causing early aging, low fertility, and chronic illness.

[music]

Balance

Speaking on a purely physical footing, humanity is such as it is (planet dominant) because we learned how to utilise a great deal of food that was beyond our physiology. And we evolved along with our ability to modify food. Some adaptations we have made are good, and some are not, but still, we are the evolved creatures that we are in this purely physical sense, and philosophy doesn't change that much.

Fermentation is a part of that, as are other methods of opening up food resources to us. If we have a method of preparing a kidney bean for example, that increases available protein by 38%, increases other nutritional factors as much as fourfold, and which reduces phytic acid content by 50% (rough figures from memory), then if only from a global resource management perspective, we really should be considering that. We have that method - it is germination, followed by fermentation. We can then cook the bean should we wish, and the probiotics will perish leaving what are sometimes called metabiotics in the form of beneficial metabolites. Or we can pull the beans out before they are fully cooked and ferment them again, which further enhances, and remakes the enzymes and metabolites destroyed in the cooking. Or, we can decide not to eat that sort of food at all, because most of us have heard by now that it's not really good for us in the closed form.

We are told we should eat nothing but raw food, and that too much raw food is toxic. We are told that animal fats will kill us, and we are told animal fats will cure us. We are told that micro-organism are bad, and we are told they are good. Everyone has a position, and we all have the ability to defend our position eloquently, fanatically, even aggressively. What we often forget to remember is that though we share a common evolutionary path in the anatomical and physiological sense, we are all individual expressions of this vague thing called a "human being". As individuals, we all have slightly different nutritional needs. What works for one person may well not work for another person, and that's great, because that only confirms our unique spark of being, one spark among many, and that is a beautiful thing.

Certainly share what you have found, Dawn, and thank you for doing so, but please remember you are one spark among many, and that is a beautiful thing.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

And speaking of gratitude... is it possible that TPTB have an expectation that the 'factory fresh' food they create will reduce the population size and send more sick people into the medical industry looking for cures? Perhaps eating the way TPTB have encouraged us to is actually stepping into a trap they have made with a purpose in mind. This is just an open question for me. Whether planned or not ... the way we live now is causing early aging, low fertility, and chronic illness.

I believe at first they didn't know any better, food is food, full stomach, you had your diner, all is well, that was the meme.

But by now, with this immense knowledge base on how foods work in the body and what we ACTUALLY need to thrive and be HEALTHY and they still produce this crap, its first degree murder, a slow kill method, they worked themselves into this trap they sold us, they are as deep into this as we are and its very hard to back out of it, they would have to admit they didn't know while they actually told us they did know what was good for us, like the doctor who said smoking was good for you, like at first the earth was flat until they discovered otherwise, they are scared to death we find out and start claiming our health, money and loved ones back, this goes for nutrition, science, religion, politics and knowledge as a whole, when I found out universities only taught the knowledge they could afford, a light bulb went on for me, we are actually in a good place when it comes to knowledge, the bad part is the price of the updated science, if you cant afford the knowledge you are not on the cutting edge you could be, that is where the problem lies imo, I however see organic foods are on the rise in supermarkets, whatever the hell that word means, organic, I know what it should mean by my personal standards, but my personal standards have nothing to do with what is actually available to me in stores, unfortunately. I do see a rise in the demand, slowly but surely and can only hope and wish for that standards will be raised big time, preferably in short order.