Definition of Evil

[bogeyman]

Does this depend on social conditioning? Education? Indoctrination? Actions? Laws? Or is there something beyond all these beliefs? Morals?

[Milneman]

(do you mean the innate idea that there is something that exists which is parasitic of that which is good?)

bogeyman, this is one of the very deep and thoughtful questions I had to contend with in dealing with Dr. Stephen Law's "Evil God Challenge".

And I need more coffee and a few more posts in this thread to reflect further, but I will go deeper.

You gotta love these kinds of threads.

[donk]

I think it is relative:

Evil = consciously (knowingly) imposing your will on another (against their will).

This, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder

[Milneman]

So donk would it then be evil for parents to impose their will on young children in a case of keeping them safe?

[dsldog]

God's teachings or man's law, and of course, which God?

There are some things in the union of all law and morality. For example I cant think of a single culture that permits cannibalism of the tribes' offspring. Kind of easy to figure out why.

The definition, however, remains elusive. Like the judge said about pornography, I know it when I see it.

[Milneman]

Posted by dsldog (here)
God's teachings or man's law, and of course, which God?

There are some things in the union of all law and morality. For example I cant think of a single culture that permits cannibalism of the tribes' offspring. Kind of easy to figure out why.

The definition, however, remains elusive. Like the judge said about pornography, I know it when I see it.

Elusive because it's relative?

[risveglio]

Posted by bogeyman (here)
Does this depend on social conditioning? Education? Indoctrination? Actions? Laws? Or is there something beyond all these beliefs? Morals?

I think so. I know some, if not most, of us here believe what our governments are doing in the name of spreading Democracy is evil, but not to most of our fellow citizens. It has to be social conditioning that lets so many accept the contradictions between what they claim to believe spiritually to what they allow to happen. I know I have started struggling with this recently. So much pain is done with the value provided by my labor that I wonder if it makes me evil by association.

[Valle]

To me
Evil = ego,
If you do something to benefit yourself on others behalf you do an evil act.
The more you gain or the more others suffers, the more evil..

Good = making someone glad or doing an non ego act

"Lebensraum" = evil
"we are the chosen people" = evil
"The end justifies the means" = evil
etc

[Shezbeth]

From the Encyclopedia of FA

Evil - A classification of observable behaviors and phenomenon and/or perceived/theoretical dispositions that the subject(s) making the classification find to be dogmatically abhorrent, unsupportable, non-conducive, and condemnable largely through a combination of nescience, ignorance, and a lack of consideration as pertains to the etymology of the behavior/disposition in question. Specifically, an individual/group violation of a subject's moral beliefs/perceptions.

I'll be happy to expound if it seems necessary. ^_^

[donk]

Posted by Milneman (here)
So donk would it then be evil for parents to impose their will on young children in a case of keeping them safe?

It is their responsibility to teach it (that something is harmful) to them. It is possible (but not easy) to do this without imposing your will on them.

Most of the more popular methods of western culture seem to be pretty evil. It's deeply interwoven into our societal norms (abusive relationships)

I do not accept "because I said so"...and require a reason for everything I do (else I'm committing evil). So when I catch myself projecting my feelings (frustration/impatience) on to my kids, I always apologize.

If a child doesn't listen, and continues to engage in self destructive behavior despite your best efforts of teaching/sharing information, tricks necessarily need to be employed, as we are not always afforded the time to properly raise our children (that's the nature of the evil beast that is the way we choose to arrange ourself as a "civilization").

Evil is knowingly allowing self destructive behavior. Unfortunately, we've been mindf*cked I to accepting a way of life that makes it nearly impossible to do it completely honestly and openly.

Whether it be urban myth or not, I like the stories of Richard Branson's childhood, many people consider his mother's ways "evil", I find them to be the opposite, a way to teach kids to be responsible. It's tough nowadays

[loungelizard]

The trouble with the word "evil" is that it generates an immediate reaction. There is an implication that evil is somehow an absolute force in the world, and that if it could only be removed, everything would be hunky dory. If we only had someone to blame...

There are evil actions that cause harm, but trying to rid the world of evil is in itself the root of evil action. The idea that we can make the world good by destroying the evil, by exorcising it, by exterminating it, by removing all the impurities of the world. Us against them. History is littered with the repercussions of people who have believed there is a battle between the goodies and the baddies.

The idea that if we can label people who cause us pain as "evil", it makes us feel better. It's a comfort. We're not evil - they are.

Evil is not an external force. Neither is it an inherent characteristic of being human. It is created by causes and conditions: pain gives rise to evil. And we all carry the seeds of evil within us. It's down to us to watch our own actions, rather than hold an idea that it's possible to eliminate this elusive power called evil.

Evil something we create. It's not something we are, and neither is it an outside force that somehow takes us over.

The world is a difficult and painful place: because of this, there are many opportunities for us to show kindness

[Milneman]

So....Hitler was evil right?

*runs for the hills* :O)

[Shezbeth]

No, Hitler engaged in tyranny, predation, and a host of other things. That is, according to the available information which is BY NO MEANS complete. I'm not saying his behavior is excusable, but neither is it inexcusable, unless one has already made the internal agreement that some actions are not-permissible.

The universe, like it or not, 'decided' his actions were permissible.

[Milneman]

lol Shezbeth I should apologize. That comment was kind of an inside joke between me n' lizzy. :D

[Shezbeth]

Your actions do not warrant apology. I didn't think you were specifically addressing me, but I saw your statement as an opportunity to illustrate, so I took it. The term 'evil' is often bandied about as an emotional appeal - usually in condemnation - geared toward creating consensus and ending any potential discussion about a topic and/or understanding of that being condemned. Individuals involved are often intent on not using reason or understanding, though there are cases in which it is used at the conclusion of discussion/inquiry as a simplification.

[Finefeather]

Posted by donk (here)
Evil = consciously (knowingly) imposing your will on another (against their will).

I would agree on this...however...I would include the unconscious (unknowing) condition as well...somewhere there has to be a will driving this state of repulsive behaviour...whether we are conscious of it or not...where does it come from?

I think an interesting exercise is to consider what each of us has determined to be 'evil'...and what we have determined to be 'good'...because this is usually our baseline for our judgments...and might determine also the boundaries of our knowledge and wisdom.

Since...IMO... 'evil' is just a word we have invented to position ourselves on some side of a great divide...which we have ourselves created...as individuals and as collectives...it might then be reasonable to consider the meaning, or goal, of life, and what actions might deter us from our quest towards this goal...and call that 'evil'.

We all have different ideas for our reason for life and this makes it almost impossible to say 'one size fits all'...so for some evil is a profound hindrance and danger to our 'mission'...and for some it is just a choice wether it will...or even can...be of any serious consequence to our ‘mission’.

So it seems to me that it becomes quite difficult to equate one man’s ‘evil’ with another man’s ‘evil’ when we are not always quite sure wether they are even conscious of it or not.

Esoterically, ‘evil’ is actions and thoughts which work against the laws of nature and the laws of life...and freedom is obedience to the laws of nature and the laws of live.

So what might be the laws of nature and the laws of life?

Take care
Ray

[Shezbeth]

I agree that donk's definition describes something reprehensible but that definition is more equatable to that of "Tyranny" than "Evil". The dichotomy presented by Finefeather does a good job of illustrating a point, but is false and biased (the 'great divide part' is spot on though). The opposite of freedom is not evil, though individuals may be want to categorize it so, it is control.

[Eram]

Posted by Shezbeth (here)
I agree that donk's definition describes something reprehensible but that definition is more equatable to that of "Tyranny" than "Evil". The dichotomy presented by Finefeather does a good job of illustrating a point, but is false and biased (the 'great divide part' is spot on though). The opposite of freedom is not evil, though individuals may be want to categorize it so, it is control.

In finefeathers dichotomy, isn't the violation of laws of nature and life coming forth out of a desire (conscious or unconscious) to control?

[dsldog]

relative and manifold

[donk]

I think the opposite of freedom is evil, I think I described that, and I feel tyranny is evil on a grand scale, my definition can be applied on that level as well as the interpersonal. Even the most interpersonal: lying to yourself.

Self destructive behavior is inflicting on evil on yourself, it is a form of control and not exclusive of your definition. That's the least populous level (pop = 1). Abusive relationships (pop = 2) is small scale tyranny, really no different, except that population equals the entire population.

Ultimately, this seemingly harmful to others act is harmful to the tyrant itself