Current situation in Ukraine - a warning.

[miqeel]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=aLx7RRGiNLg

I wish that we all understand that the situation in Ukraine as it happens now, will be similar to what may happen if the so called "Social and Economic Unrest" happens in US or Western Europe. There, we now see the "Social" one.

I looking at this, know that this is not what I want to happen, and so I only focus on the peaceful solution of our problems..

[Poly Hedra]

Surprised this is the first thread??
I've been following closely whats happening and feeling very sad, upset and crying looking at the videos of people fighting against the government.

Then there are people saying its because of so many reasons they are protesting, like an american coup, apparently said by Alex Jones.
But these people on the streets dont feel that I'm sure.
My opinion is that they are basically sick of the corruption, same as the occupy movement and anonymous....

I also think this is a perfect example of what any so called western country could expect from their governments if it kicked off anywhere else.
Lets face it, they are all corrupt gangsters all over the world because the whole system is corrupt.
What do you think?

[Wind]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=7eTuFAR169s

These protests are now happening all over the world... Ukraine, Thailand, Venezuela etc, I suspect during these "intense" times people are starting to unconsciously sense that something isn't right and this is how the excess energy is being channelled. Personally I don't advocate violence at all, but then again the corruption... Good riddance.

[Poly Hedra]

Yes, so far in the last few months there have been protests and clashes in Venezeula,
Bosnia:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=XtHa6A1wxoI

Brazil:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=2meFNeBC80c

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=0bWW8u59Rrw

Montenegro:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=DuSiQhjnrMQ

and UKraine.
Obviously I dont agree with violence too. The way I see it is that the people are reacting like a child/teenager who is pissed off yet have no idea how to use this anger.
This protest has been going on since Dec, its only recently this has become violent.

I really hope this is a sign of people waking up all over the world.

[Cardillac]

here's another take on the unrest in the Ukraine:

http://www.blacklistednews.com/Ameri...0/5/5/Y/M.html

the same type of unrest seems to be happening in Bangkok; I wonder if both "unrests" have the same financial backing...

Larry

[Poly Hedra]

So do you think this is an engineered protest in Ukraine?
Paid protestors?
I would like to see this information - not saying anything whether I see one side or not. All I see right now is normal people dying at the hands of the government.
I read the article and listened to the leaked conversation. I still dont have a clear picture about what they are actually saying........
I think the article has raised a few alarm bells, especially the stuff about
"Why is that we have so many vile Jews like Nuland in positions of power and influence in Washington DC? " - quite a vile way with words, the article seems quite biased too.

Are there any other level-headed articles/info out there?

[Wind]

The president and the government of Ukraine are in Putin's pocket, he pays them and then they attack the people who oppose the governments will. Of course US has their own agenda too, but even if the Russian government was the lesser of the two evils, it still doesn't mean that they would be good. Putin has tons of blood on his hands and it's a fact... Yet he is being praised and he is one of the wealthiest and most influential men on this planet.

http://www.vice.com/read/ukraine-rus...tin-yanukovych

[galilava]

I think this has to do with the gas situation that Syria conflict could not resolve in favor for those who started it. The protests may have started as genuine, but the blood is not. The snipers, shooting civilians, look too suspicious and smell of black opp.

[Etherios]

the problems were there ... and all outside influence is bad ...

But i am sorry to say ... the US/EU finger started all these. If the gov had said yes ... to join EU then nothing would had happened.

You dont need that many people to start this ... few paid provokers and few paids killers to start shooting the police/army ... then its over. I read somewhere reports of people getting paid to protest etc.

Also the way both US and Russian news report this says alot. US blames the governments to be Russian and the Russians say its all planed by EU and US. Once blood is spilled then its hard to stop.

Snipers ... i havent read much about that but it immediately reminded me of Syria. Both in Syria and Ukraine the "protesters" are a minority of the public (at least openly) and they both have guns. Also the West media is giving names to the protesters that are or sound exactly the same as the Syria Rebels at the start.

Imagine how hard it is to control the police when they are being burned or shot at ... in the EU or US especially, they taser you for resisting ...

[TigaHawk]

Posted by conec (here)
Yes, so far in the last few months there have been protests and clashes in Venezeula,
Bosnia:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=XtHa6A1wxoI

Brazil:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=2meFNeBC80c

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=0bWW8u59Rrw

Montenegro:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=DuSiQhjnrMQ

and UKraine.
Obviously I dont agree with violence too. The way I see it is that the people are reacting like a child/teenager who is pissed off yet have no idea how to use this anger.
This protest has been going on since Dec, its only recently this has become violent.

I really hope this is a sign of people waking up all over the world.

What i dont understand are the people that think the citizens of Kiev are wrong with what they are doing. When a whole country stops and demands it's government step down - that's the country speaking. They are meant to be there to serve the interests and wellbeing of their people and the country. If the people/country no longer want them in power - what gives them the right to say?

Sadder still will be the violence was probably organised by the government itself to allow them to start arresting/detaining people en-masse to try and quell the rebellion.

[Etherios]

Posted by TigaHawk (here)
What i dont understand are the people that think the citizens of Kiev are wrong with what they are doing. When a whole country stops and demands it's government step down - that's the country speaking. They are meant to be there to serve the interests and wellbeing of their people and the country. If the people/country no longer want them in power - what gives them the right to say?

Sadder still will be the violence was probably organised by the government itself to allow them to start arresting/detaining people en-masse to try and quell the rebellion.

So you know its the majority of the citizens in Kiev? Also is Kiev population the majority of Ukraine? I mean if i get a few thousands people and go start burning a capital city and demand my government to change a political choice thats ok? 90-95% of Greeks dont want almost all the laws that we are forced to accept ... do we go and burn cities? If you remember about Greece and the burnings in Athens. The "protesters" were less than 1% of the people on the streets.

There is an issue but i am pretty sure that its a very small minority that does this and the result will have nothing to do with the will of the Ukraine people. Look Egypt ... Look Syria ... Look Libya ... just saying.

Not entering EU is not enough to make this reaction ... in normal conditions. The people can wait for the next elections to elect a different Government. Its not like entering the EU will immediately change the face of Ukraine. This is all a distraction ... and i think its to change the Government to a pro EU one fast and painfully. (Pain and fear will help the Ukraine people to accept any EU conditions later on ... " Do you want fires again??? Accept this..."). The same thing happened in Greece ... and continues to happen even today.

[Tesseract]

As I wrote elsewhere here, I support Ukrainian independence, it is the number one goal, and I don’t begrudge any Ukrainian the right to argue for, and protest for, what they consider is best for Ukraine, including trade agreements with Europe if that is what they want. To say that this whole thing is engineered is wrong, the background here is well known and not a recent fabrication. However, I do have a problem with the blatant lies and hypocrisy, the specious representation, and the manipulation of Western opinion that is taking place by the pro-Europe faction. As such I decided to write some things down.


The president of Ukraine is democratically elected, despite the international campaign to smear his name, he was elected in 2010 in elections that are agreed to have been fair – and the elections were specially monitored given the controversy of the prior election. I note today that the Washington post is making the risible argument that the Ukraine democracy is not really a democracy. It’s all a part of the propaganda machine which is now running at maximum overdrive (does it ever stop?).


So, one can argue that Yanukovich has a democratic mandate to finish his presidency which has only 12 months to go anyway. However, since there is relatively little time left it would not be such a betrayal of his constituency to call an early election, and this may be one of the few options available to fairly (relatively) resolve the current crisis. Of course, if the election did not go the way of the pro-europe crowd they will refuse to recognise the result, knowing that the might of Europe and the USA will be behind them with the weight of economic sanctions. If such an election did go the way of the pro-europe crowd then perhaps things may calm down.


As a parallel to the current situation, one can consider the protests in Turkey recently, which were very well attended and lasted quite some time, and a number of protesters were killed and many injured – however the protesters didn’t shoot, kill, kidnap or take hostage any police as far as I am aware. Personally, I don’t like the president of Turkey and would like to have seen him resign, however I had to admit that he was put in place by the people of Turkey and had a right, even an obligation, to stay there. Had the protests been as massive as they were in Egypt, against Morsi, then there would have been more of a democratic argument for Erdogan to quit.


In Ukraine, there is not a country-wide movement against Yanukovich, and the protests, as large as they are, are not nearly as overwhelming as those against Morsi. Rather, the protesters represent the pro-europe faction, certainly not all of Ukraine. Of course, you have these youtube videos appearing ‘I am a Ukrainian’ which conveniently are in English, in addition to English language tweets being issued by the pro-europe political leaders, that try to give the impression that the movement represents the Ukrainian people as a whole, when in fact it does not. The very simple and undeniable fact that Yanukovich fairly won the elections, despite the incredible international and domestic smear campaign orchestrated against him by coordinated players, proves the fact that a large number of Ukrainians are not represented by the protesters.


One slightly disturbing trend that I am seeing is the imputation that Russian speaking Ukrainians somehow don’t really count, as if they are secondary citizens. Yet, these are people who were born and raised in Ukraine just like any other Ukrainian. I might also mention that these Ukrainians had their political representation denied after the western backed so-called range revolution a number of years ago. Then, after Yukashenko took the Presidency and Tymoshenko the Prime ministership, did the disenfranchised Yanukovich supporters behave then as the pro-europe Yanukovich opponents are behaving now? Did they unleash a raging firewall of molatov cocktails, gun down policemen, take hostages, call for sanctions against their own country and so on? No, they didn’t. They just waited until the next election and voted for Yanukovich again, this time under international monitoring so that the result could not be in dispute. This, from the supposedly non-democratic faction in Ukraine. Of course we know that Yanukovich won that election, since contrary to Western propaganda, there were in fact people in Ukraine who wanted him to be their president – many of them these Russian speaking people who shouldn’t really be heard.


As indicated in a link posted above, there are some stories going around of Israelis joining the protest movement, even taking organisational roles. A huge number of Israeli citizens were actually born in Ukraine, if they do not represent the biggest portion of aliyim in Israel (did I spell that right?) then they would be not far behind. Perhaps one of our Israeli avalonians can correct me, but I would not be surprised if many, perhaps even most, of these Ukrainian Israelis are from the ‘western’ portion of the Ukrainian population. So, as western Ukrainians, and Israelis, they would probably be happy to see a Russia-friendly government taken down. As such, it is not really hard for me to believe that there is some truth to these reports. Is it a big deal? We already know foreign powers are working behind the scenes to take down Yanukovich, so it is not such a major revelation to me.


On the current violence (by the way this has made me very sad because I have always been interested in Ukraine and wanted (still want) to go there very much, my heart really sank a lot recently): police forces in all countries attract some really nasty people and if you told me that some of the killed protesters were not shot in self defence by the police, then I would believe you. However, many police have also been killed deliberately by protesters (if that is the right term here) and many violent incidents have been initiated by protesters. In fact, the Western media, which is firmly against the government of Ukraine, is actually reporting that in the recent (Thursday 20th Feb) deadly clash, what happened was the protesters attacked the police, thereby breaking the truce that was agreed to, the police retreated, the protesters then hounded the police, attacking them with Molotov cocktails and so on, at which point the police fought back. This is not my account, this is the account of the western media including CNN and ABC Australia. In fact the western media has been forced by the abundance of evidence to reluctantly admit that there is an element of the protest movement that is anything but peaceful and that these people have essentially forced a violent response.

We should also ask ourselves if the response of the Ukrainian government has been a reasonable one.

Yanukovich sacked the government and then offered the job of Prime minister to an opposition leader (Yatsenyuk). The government also scrapped the anti-protest laws as demanded by the protesters, and ordered restraint by the police. The government released about 300 people that had been detained (less than US detained in occupy protests, by the way) and dropped charges when the protesters agreed to vacate the hall they were holding. The government also agreed to a truce negotiated with the opposition. All this negotiation and concession from the brutal tyrant dictator of the Western comic book media. Tell me the name of a President of any other country that would bend this far in an effort to preserve the peace. Perhaps as a next step he will resign or announce an early election, perhaps even a review or reversal of the economic decision that precipitated this whole mess. For a minute, when the truce was announced following negotiations between opposing parties, it seemed like there was some hope. Meanwhile the USA was threatening sanctions if there was any further deterioration. Like clockwork, despite opposition parties formally agreeing to a truce, that deterioration happened, and we can now expect sanctions to be announced pretty soon by the country that has the greatest portion of its population in prison and which has killed millions through bombings/invasions and sanctions without ever attracting such adjectives as brutal and tyrannical to its name. Maybe also the USA will officially not-recognise the Ukrainian government and recognise an alternative government including the people they have already decided should be in it.


For the upset Ukrainians who are the protesters, I have no doubt that they genuinely wish to profit from greater ties to Europe and less reliance on Russia, for me there is nothing wrong with that on the face of it. But for the West, this is about bringing Ukraine into the military geo-political fold of Europe/USA, while simultaneously splitting Ukraine further away from Russia (Ukraine is an independent country already of course, some people are acting like the USSR never broke up). That is something I do have a problem with. Next time I am protesting against another European/NATO bombing campaign or invasion, I hope I am not also protesting against Ukrainian armed forces, that would really bother me a lot.


Meanwhile they think about how to bring down Lukashenko in Belarus.

[Becky]

Posted by conec (here)
Surprised this is the first thread??
I've been following closely whats happening and feeling very sad, upset and crying looking at the videos of people fighting against the government.

Then there are people saying its because of so many reasons they are protesting, like an american coup, apparently said by Alex Jones.
But these people on the streets dont feel that I'm sure.
My opinion is that they are basically sick of the corruption, same as the occupy movement and anonymous....

I also think this is a perfect example of what any so called western country could expect from their governments if it kicked off anywhere else.
Lets face it, they are all corrupt gangsters all over the world because the whole system is corrupt.
What do you think?

Hi Conec,
this isn't the first thread, here's a link to another on here...

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...-Consciousness

My son has a friend living in Kiev, and he was talking online with his friend about the situation over there.

[chocolate]

http://redicecreations.com/article.php?id=29042

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=NbhNBBS85mc

And there was a thread with a very good overview some time ago. If I find it I'll link it below.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ees-Go-Home---

[Agape]

Posted by Etherios (here)

So you know its the majority of the citizens in Kiev? Also is Kiev population the majority of Ukraine? I mean if i get a few thousands people and go start burning a capital city and demand my government to change a political choice thats ok? 90-95% of Greeks dont want almost all the laws that we are forced to accept ... do we go and burn cities? If you remember about Greece and the burnings in Athens. The "protesters" were less than 1% of the people on the streets.

There is an issue but i am pretty sure that its a very small minority that does this and the result will have nothing to do with the will of the Ukraine people. Look Egypt ... Look Syria ... Look Libya ... just saying.

Not entering EU is not enough to make this reaction ... in normal conditions. The people can wait for the next elections to elect a different Government. Its not like entering the EU will immediately change the face of Ukraine. This is all a distraction ... and i think its to change the Government to a pro EU one fast and painfully. (Pain and fear will help the Ukraine people to accept any EU conditions later on ... " Do you want fires again??? Accept this..."). The same thing happened in Greece ... and continues to happen even today.

I don't have answers to all these questions .. we're in central Europe , fortunately far enough but the situation and governments in Ukraine seemed to be disastrous since the collapse of the SU .

I'm perfectly sure it's not any ''1%'' people and only in Kiev , they have every right to step out and say no to the government. 'Waiting for next elections' is not an option there it seems,

their governments were corrupt one after another with leaders stabbing their opponents to backs, the case of that blond plated lady Tymoshenko who signed deal to save gas supplies to EU and was forcefully removed and imprisoned for 'imposing debt' on the Ukrainian economics is but one of many . No good willed individual can survive amongst or against the standing 'junta' there , I suppose it's the same in many other countries if not most of them .
However , their government is extremely lame and corrupt , Ukraine used to be the main producer of wheat for Europe and they're also strategically important because gas lines leading through them and I'm sure they have abundance of space and natural resources however,
whatever I've heard , situation and living standards had been very poor in the country , we get regular flux of Ukrainian immigrants here and I suppose other European countries do as well.
They used to be 'economical refugees ' at start, with majority of cheap manual workers , but it all changed over the years to political refugees ( economical reasons do play role of course ) but they don't want to be there any more ,
people with academic titles feeling endangered , having very little options and opportunities where jobs are concerned .

Money is known to be spent and misused, wasted by the government for anything they see as appropriate and they do not follow common principles of democracy , not listening to what people need, whether they're starving .

There's been quite some eco-tourism to the country by young adventurous travellers from elsewhere, all say in one voice .. the country is rural , people are very kind but there are no infrastructures, no roads to villages, extreme poverty in some areas, alcoholism, of course they need to change .

I think the president signing the very recent deal with Russia was the 'last nail' to the coffin for them .

They don't want Russia to dominate them , no one here in Europe wants Russia to dominate, they are cultish and dominant in nature , same goes for China in the East .


We've got rid of this BB 25 years ago almost and no way they will impose their will over the EU . See how they influenced the world , by charms .. so that all the small countries, their sovereignties were and in many cases still are ignored .

[Etherios]

Posted by Agape (here)
...

So you like the US imposed status but you dont like the Russian? So far the only problems the west have been having is cause the US wants more and more. Russia just tries to benefit from economical contracts ... but they are not allowed cause they are the "bad" guys? dont understand your reasoning.

Ill give you and example ... in Greece. We were looking for new war planes and we had 2 deals few years ago ... F-16 from US (old models with some new planes and no def system) or SU-27 from Russia with full tech transfer and support + trainers and 1 extra engine per fighter. Russian offer was alot lower and had other economical contracts also ...

We took the F-16 ... that took 3-4 years more to come and half were faulty and had to be refitted etc ... i guess Russia is the bad guys ...

Noone said Ukraine people are on the wrong ... BUT if your memory is good in a few years you will find news that most protesters are not locals or they are getting paid by the west.


p.s. watch the video above ... it might help you see this more openly

[chocolate]

I personally don't like both the so called West and the Russian imperialistic appetites.

Kiev is thorn apart by the two sides, both quite powerful- the west, EU as the closest, and the US. It is a conflict based not only on politics/economics, but also on religion.
The Ukrainian people are very kind, loving and understanding, but also quite aware, unlike many others. It is not an easy task to be between two giants and to be able to stand straight.

[heyokah]

Listen to what Joseph P. Farrell has to say about the current Ukraine situation.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=nAL__UFqzwk

[Agape]

Posted by Etherios (here)

Posted by Agape (here)
...

So you like the US imposed status but you dont like the Russian? So far the only problems the west have been having is cause the US wants more and more. Russia just tries to benefit from economical contracts ... but they are not allowed cause they are the "bad" guys? dont understand your reasoning.

Ill give you and example ... in Greece. We were looking for new war planes and we had 2 deals few years ago ... F-16 from US (old models with some new planes and no def system) or SU-27 from Russia with full tech transfer and support + trainers and 1 extra engine per fighter. Russian offer was alot lower and had other economical contracts also ...

We took the F-16 ... that took 3-4 years more to come and half were faulty and had to be refitted etc ... i guess Russia is the bad guys ...

Noone said Ukraine people are on the wrong ... BUT if your memory is good in a few years you will find news that most protesters are not locals or they are getting paid by the west.


p.s. watch the video above ... it might help you see this more openly

Hello Etherios ,

there is no US imposed status on either of our European territories . There are always some 'influences' and here on continent , the whole central-north-east of Europe had been fighting Russian dominance since the world wars .

I understand perfectly why you don't see my perspective if you're from Greece . Greece has been its own 'state and capital' for many centuries , perhaps due to its surviving historical and cultural legacy ,
you've protected your identity for as long as you could .

Here in central EU the situation happened to be very different . We had to fight for sovereignty and independence from the Austrian-Ungarian Empire and won Republic in 1918 , only to be taken over by Germany in 1938 .

Most European countries belonged to one then another Empire over the centuries and were culturally suppressed to greater or lesser degree .

The last controlling mechanism imposed on us by former Soviet Union after WWII , from 1948 lasted 41 years .

You did not experience the situation in Greece and were far enough from their controls , they still supported your economy and fuelled the proletariate and pro-communist movement in Greece as well, so they did in many other countries .

But officially, you're were on the other side of the 'curtain'. Not sure how much this is true nowadays anyway .


In gist .. no matter how much 'bad beans' is being spilled about the US on this forum, we all can also safely agree that problems the 'New Continent' experiences are problems that mankind has to face as part of their evolution,

believing that someone being 'forwards' stops having problems is very narrow minded idea .

The fact is that further we get , problems may become harder and they can 't be solved by those sitting in their caves and armchairs and not supporting the change .

There's no 'ideal country' or 'ideal regime' or anything 'ideally human' I'd find in this world and even if I start explaining you the reasons why it can't be , quite yet, you would not understand .

But between the 'two options' I'll certainly choose advanced democracy against self ruled totalitarian regimes which is what Russia and China are till today .
They've made few little steps forwards as well, maybe great improvements from where they see it but what I see ..
is still people who impose their laws and 'truths' with whips and tear gas , who put their opposition to prisons and mental asylums and do not even bother to be ashamed about it .

We've experienced a touch of their influence , it was like shadow cover that no one liked except for sneaky shadowy characters who always existed and profited from any regime, without need to call them names .

Please understand that I am merely explaining my own attitude and experience , know you have your valid points .



PS : Payed by the West ? To get killed ? Are you just kidding yourself ?

[gripreaper]

Tyranny, same as it ever was, while the world, not just Ukraine, is shouting at the castle walls and pleading with their overlords to throw more scraps over the wall to the slaves. While Rome burns most of the world is shouting for more bread a circuses. Every so often, the slaves get restless. Once they sent a Trojan in and overtook the castle, and yet the tyrants recovered. Once they revolted in France and brought the Magna Carta to the people, and the tyrants recovered. Once they braved the oceans to come to a new land, and the tyrants took that over too.

There is an awakening. I don't think there are many who don't recognize that something is wrong, but I still don't see how screaming at the castle walls has ever changed anything throughout history. What I do see, is a concerted effort by the controllers to keep the masses in the low vibratory frequencies of fear, anger, and sorrow, in order to continue to subjugate them for their own nefarious cannibalization of the life force energies of all humans. To say that the controllers are inhuman is not that much of a stretch.

Globally we ALL acquiesce to the system of energy vampirism, giving our energy to it each and every day. We support a monetary system of exchange which steals over 50% of the energy from the people, yet we continue to allow the tyrant banksters to run free, suiciding their own workers in broad daylight while we get loans and continue to pay our mortgages and our credit cards. We talk about global alliances and ancient families who are supposedly going up against the banksters and have the wherewithal to unseat them. We have remote viewers who will bring us announcements that will change everything.

What is abundantly clear to me, is talking to the man in the mirror, and asking the question: What can I do? The answer I get goes something like this: Raise your vibration. Get OUT OF the lower vibratory fields of fear, anger and sorrow where the tyrants cannot vampire your life force. Continue to extricate yourself from supporting the tyrannical system of commerce in every possible way, every single moment of every single day. Implement into my daily life the following protocols:

Watch what I put in my mouth. For example, no more fluoride. Drink distilled water, take mineral supplements, eat raw organic foods, detox twice a year minimum, and test my PH regularly. Exercise and stay oxygenated. This is at a minimum. If I'm not healthy, I cannot move to a higher frequency, and therefore I cannot be creative on how to help myself and others to extricate from the system.

Research. Learn from those who are in the trenches and ARE extricating themselves from the system, who are the patriots and the sovereigns. Don't try and blaze this trail by yourself, but understand how tyranny works, how it came about, how we acquiesce to it, and how we can reclaim our sovereignty. This is the most salient point, to OWN that WE support tyranny. Without us, it cannot stand.

Find out where you are supporting it and do what you can, right now to detox, raise your energy level, and quit giving your energy to the tyrants. It really is up to us.