Is the white light after we die a trap?

[Wind]

The veil of forgetfulness exists for a reason and we chose to be here for a reason at this time. If all of us remembered and fully aknowledged that we're all God in human form then would there be any fun in the game of life? What would there be left to learn if there was no drama in the cosmic play? At the moment we are experiencing dualism in this world. The spirit world is full of love and and also there we learn so much, but not as much as here.

We all may choose to believe what we want to, but in the end it always comes to the question... Would you rather choose love or fear? I know what my choice is. In everloving God I trust.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=NnCr4etOZLw

[thunder24]

Dang I could use a smoke, anybody gotta light?

[heyokah]

Posted by Finefeather (here)

Posted by observer (here)
I'm convinced, from the records of antiquity, that the Golden Light is the light to seek. If one considers most of the earliest civilizations of Humanity were Sun Worshipers, it only stands to reason the Golden Light of the sun is the exit from the matrix.

Actually the suns light is white...all you have to do is use some prisms and you will notice it's pure white light.
the Sun is white, not yellow.

It feels YELLOW

[Delight]

I said I have no experience but thought again. Once I smoked salvia. It is an entheogen that is legal I think still in the US? It gives a brief intense "trip". I was outside sitting on the grass when the experience hit. I lost complete control and awareness of everything. I was in a black void. Out of nowhere I reassured myself "This is a drug effect and will wear off". So I was calm. Then i saw a loaf of bread appear that was falling in slices. Then I just came back to my body.

I was with my husband when he died after lengthy fearful struggle. I felt with him I believe because I was in bliss for weeks. Later Carol Clarke did a reading where a male said through her "Dying was hard but afterwards it was a mystical experience". I think she was communicating with him.

The reason I bring this up is that I do agree there is benefit in learning how to die because we will most likely. Maybe some will ascend? I have no idea? I do not think it is 'wrong" to entertain ideas about what it will be about but the main thing I KNOW from working as a hospice nurse...Dying takes a combination of relaxation and energy. A person can be too tired to die. One can be too tense to die. One can linger in the body from fear.

My response to worry about all this is:
1. In all this discussion of the ideas from all these sources so adamant, none of you are dead. So you cannot be an expert. Even people with NDEs are alive. Why would anyone adopt a thought form from someone (anyone) about which you know nothing. Frankly it's hilarious to me. (no offense but the certainty about the unknown makes no sense. I am so amused)
a. given that it is an unknown, one should focus more on living well.

2.In all this discussion, I hear very little trust in love...so I am really happy I have the trust in love to follow it as I said I will. I self approve following love at all times. She may be white or may look black for all I know? But the FEELING is the same.

3. Meditation does yield familiarity with relaxed, focused inner awareness....recommended by all for death training.

4. The people I know who died very hard were afraid they had failed to be worthy of life after death. So, I'm sure we should look at death as our ally and never do anything we consider an obstacle to our further living. That does not mean we should be perfect. IMO it means perfecting self forgiveness and redemption as in "go free from the past and don't keep doing what you say you know is wrong."

[Synchronicity]

Posted by Delight (here)
I said I have no experience but thought again. Once I smoked salvia. It is an entheogen that is legal I think still in the US? It gives a brief intense "trip". I was outside sitting on the grass when the experience hit. I lost complete control and awareness of everything. I was in a black void. Out of nowhere I reassured myself "This is a drug effect and will wear off". So I was calm. Then i saw a loaf of bread appear that was falling in slices. Then I just came back to my body.

I was with my husband when he died after lengthy fearful struggle. I felt with him I believe because I was in bliss for weeks. Later Carol Clarke did a reading where a male said through her "Dying was hard but afterwards it was a mystical experience". I think she was communicating with him.

The reason I bring this up is that I do agree there is benefit in learning how to die because we will most likely. Maybe some will ascend? I have no idea? I do not think it is 'wrong" to entertain ideas about what it will be about but the main thing I KNOW from working as a hospice nurse...Dying takes a combination of relaxation and energy. A person can be too tired to die. One can be too tense to die. One can linger in the body from fear.

My response to worry about all this is:
1. In all this discussion of the ideas from all these sources so adamant, none of you are dead. So you cannot be an expert. Even people with NDEs are alive. Why would anyone adopt a thought form from someone (anyone) about which you know nothing. Frankly it's hilarious to me. (no offense but the certainty about the unknown makes no sense. I am so amused)
a. given that it is an unknown, one should focus more on living well.

2.In all this discussion, I hear very little trust in love...so I am really happy I have the trust in love to follow it as I said I will. I self approve following love at all times. She may be white or may look black for all I know? But the FEELING is the same.

3. Meditation does yield familiarity with relaxed, focused inner awareness....recommended by all for death training.

4. The people I know who died very hard were afraid they had failed to be worthy of life after death. So, I'm sure we should look at death as our ally and never do anything we consider an obstacle to our further living. That does not mean we should be perfect. IMO it means perfecting self forgiveness and redemption as in "go free from the past and don't keep doing what you say you know is wrong."

My comments come from working with dying people as you do, and if you speak with shamans they will tell you they walk in both worlds...helping people cross and making sure they are cared for is part of the process, and so there are frames of reference. And yes, many times connecting energetically with a person as s/he is dying can help them communicate with loved ones, relax and let go, release fear, and help them understand what is happening so they can move on if they are ready, and even helping them after. It is amazing what a difference it can make for the person and all the ones around him or her.

[heyokah]

Here's my reply to a question about blissful feelings with regard to NDE from another thread. [edited a little]

Posted by heyokah (here)

Posted by lookbeyond (here)
snip.........
in re to those who have had NDE and come back in awe and reverence of this experience, are you able to explain(for arguements sake) how their blissful feelings can be as a result of supposed deceit,

Hi lookbeyond,
An interesting question.

In 1971 ( 24 and mother of a one-year-old daughter) I was in a coma for 3 weeks. I saw 'Hell', as an observer, experienced a peaceful stay in a cave, with a view of a sunny sky from the entrance and a stay with 'Light Beings', with whom I communicated telepathically.
In those last two places I felt free and peaceful, nothing more or less.
I 'was told to go back', because "there was still a lot to do for me in this earthly existence".

Was this a NDE? Specialists told me they had been images of my brain, as I had been suffering from an inflammation of my brain caused by an unknown virus.

I was confused, it 'changed my life' and my 'Search' began....
I can still see the whole 'picture' before me and it has stayed with me my whole life without changing. (I'm 66 now).

There was no feeling of bliss, just silence and peace of mind, as in meditation. And yes, I would have liked to stay there and felt very ashamed to admit that when I was "back", because I had a happy marriage and a lovely little daughter....

I can go back to that 'cave' whenever I want, often by using Drunvalo Melchizedek's "Living in the Heart" method.

I'm posting hereby a quote from a site about near-death experiences.

There are several theories to explain how coming close to death can give rise to near-death experiences.
Lack of oxygen is often implicated, although many near-death experiences occur when people are not deprived of oxygen, as in falls from mountains, during suicide attempts by jumping from heights, or after accidents.
In such situations, however, the production and actions of various hormones and neurotransmitters may be affected.
There are theories based on stimulation of receptors in nerve cell membranes called NMDA receptors, on the effects of the neurotransmitter serotonin, and on the level of endorphins (the brain's own morphine-like chemicals).
Endorphins are known to produce positive emotions and reduction of pain, and may be responsible for the blissful feelings in the midst of pain and fear.
Disruption of the brain's neurotransmitters can produce random or excessive firing of neurons and this, depending on where it occurs, may produce the other experiences.
For example, electrical stimulation of the temporal lobe of the cerebral hemispheres can produce life reviews and sensations of floating or flying, while random firing in the parts of the visual cortex (which also occurs with drugs such as LSD) causes the perception of lights, tunnels, and spirals.

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/near-de...#ixzz2TLdhj6ub

This was just MY experience and it doesn't prove or explain anything

[Hervé]

Interesting... I never thought this following sentence to have a very literal sense:

"Kill them all. For the Lord knows those that are His own."

... I guess God's little grey soldiers were very busy at the triage gates to the implanting stations....

[Christine]

My first thought on reading this thread was, how odd to find this fine group of people taking sides on whether to go to the white light or not… Um, I think, I wonder what have we learned? Who determines where one goes after death of the body. You? Your mother? Your father in heaven? The ones who went before you? Your local implanters?

It seems self evident to me that by living a life of purpose, a seeker of TRUE knowledge… and finder of SELF that question can only be answered by YOU.

Why should you go to the white light? Why should you not? The question that matters most is this: Will you leave your body as an integrated BEing who knows beyond doubt who and what you are… If you do that where you decide to go after death ought to be an easy choice because you will already know where you are going.

It isn't about how we die but how we live that will determine the choices made at the moment of our transition…. but if one runs foolishly for the first light that crosses your field who would know what they missed?

For me.. I am not interested in going to some created heaven where all my ancestors rollick in fields of grass singing songs to their ancestors.. I can go there now if I choose. And I don't want to be executed by going back to source.. I am sorry but that one really got me.. Source is everything, every where, it is you and I at play in the fields of infinity.. so I don't think source would execute me any more than it would execute itself. The return to the beginning or the return to Source may be our ultimate journey in our spiral of infinity … but we surely won't be annihilated, perhaps we will find we are complete and then who knows what might be next.

All of this discussion is excellent food for thought. Live the life of a Spiritual Warrior, the answers are inside yourSelf.

Impeccability begins with a single act that has to be
deliberate, precise and sustained. If that act is repeated long
enough, one acquires a sense of unbending intent which can be
applied to anything else. If that is accomplished the road is
clear. One thing will lead to another until the warrior realizes
his full potential. ~ Don Juan

[Delight]

I found this on the "Going into light after death... or not?" thread. https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post677250

I really like what Mark Pierre says and wonder why people do seem to want the scary stories to be true?

Posted by markpierre (here)
The part of you that makes up scary stories doesn't leave the scary stories. It, along with them, fades into the unreal, because they never were real.
That part of you was entirely made up, and the basis of the story you just extricated yourself from. That story is over.
So it was about slavery? Did you learn anything about yourself?

Who in the hell do you think you're not? that you're going to get caught by something outside of totality, and kidnapped.
Doesn't that sound more like a movie plot?
Something that's you is going to capture you and eat your soul.
You won't get highjacked by anything other than your own ideas and fears. I'm sorry. I enjoy them too. We waste time with them.
If you have to stop and search around for the right light, or else you're screwed, you're going to hang around for a long time, because you'll never be sure.
If you had a choice you probably would screw it up. When you do screw it up, it's okay. You always just keep making choices and getting what you ask for.

You've never been alone and unprotected, and you never will be. There's nothing real that defies Reality.
You reject the story of Hell, do you really prefer this one? You don't want to be one of those guys who have to be nursed into realizing they're dead, and that it's okay. God didn't go anywhere, it's still in you. You're still in it. Dying is just waking up from a really weird and unnatural dream.

You think what you want, but I'd just be getting on to perfecting that love in you here, instead of having to distinguish it from all the other love that surrounds you all the time. That really was the point of this sojourn by the way. Finding that thing in you here.
If it isn't something at least that magnanimous, what are you doing in this stupid place? Just figuring it out?

And so you don't need to worry, because you'll probably beat yourself home by the time you die. If anybody is interested in that. Not usually.

I've met too many people who want to remain people, and the best they can do to be that, is to keep looking down. Stay in their stories.
You can give yourself to whatever you want to. Will you give yourself to the unfathomable? That you never really left home? You're still looking in stories.

My best advice to everyone is to look up.

[Agape]

Posted by Delight (here)
I have no idea at all but want to be fearless. The stories that suggest the traps sound like fear and so I am not interested.

This is a great video for those interested in Tibetan ideas.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=iEX5mBqa554

It's been discussed and will be discussed here yet many times and I'd encourage everyone disrespective of their religious backgrounds to get own copy of the Bardo Thodrol for full explanation about the process of dying, visions and lights you may experience . While living or leaving this state of human existence .

While some sources subscribe the book to famous tantric master and ''2nd Buddha' of Tibet ( meaning, second only to Buddha Shakyamuni ) Guru Padmasambhava , in reality and this I know from my own teachers of Nyingma lineage who treasure the text greatly ,
it's much older than Buddhism itself and it was originally passed down through the tradition of Bon that has its life and centre in Tibet, together with some very advanced teachings on the nature of Mind and Reality called the Dzogchen ( roughly translated as the 'great accomplishment teachings' ) and it's true sources are attributed to the primordial teacher Tonpa Sherab Mewoche and the more transcendental Being - Adi Buddha Samantabhadra .


Buddha himself said that like the footprint of elephant is the biggest among all footprints, the greatest of all meditations on impermanence is meditation on death .

I've heard of some Mongolian nuns who went for retreat lasting week or two when they sat next to a corpse and observed the process of disintegration.

It's one of those 'things' that's bound to happen and none of us is really happy about watching it .

But the fact itself that it's bound to happen makes it equally realistic and attractive object of contemplation .


I remember how my first spiritual guru ( though he was not alive at that time anymore, passed away in 1950 or so ) Ramana Maharishi achieved profound spiritual realisation as a young boy when he was resting on bed one day and imagined he's actually passed away, his body being taken for cremation and so forth.
He's got instant liberation from attachment to his body by using his vivid imagination and intuiting this process ..
all his life changed since then .. from mischievous boy who was picky about food and occupied by games to one of natural meditator and profound thinker who became known as 'great sage' ( Maha Rishi ) in later years of life .
Not to be confused with Maharishi Transcendental Meditation who learned how to jump/levitate on mats and chant 'secret mantras' .

There is also quite famous book from Sogyal Rimpoche who still lives in France I believe , on the topic , called 'The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying ' .



http://www.holybooks.com/wp-content/...-and-Dying.pdf


The uniqueness of the author and the book .. is in that him and his students, some well trained western psychologists , nurses and social care workers who trained with him actually went to the hospices , and hospitals to assist people on their death beds and I can't imagine how much goodness they created by doing so,
especially for those who remain lonely in their last days and full of sadness about lost lives .
They describe some of it in the book and how difficult it is to address the topic and make people face it or open themselves to talking about it , in relax mode, in our 'western cultures' ..and I think , most of us have some experience with how even mentioning this experience about dying is not welcome with many people and they prefer to give in to their 'deserved grief' and emotions instead ..

so talk about the millions who went to 'white light' , allegedly .

I doubt that even in the old aboriginal cultures everyone went 'there' or knew what are they going to experience, except for the shaman and his family perhaps ,
most other people feared death the same way todays people do , even more, accidents, wars and sacrifices were also common which altogether means violent deaths and no time to get ready .

Egyptian culture had a cult of dead and afterlife that was extremely well preserved and rich and important to them .

Other than that , from referenced history , there's only one culture I know of who pay thorough attention to the process and have this great Book of Liberation by Transference ( the Bardo Thodrol ) that exposes every part of your mind, processes you may encounter, differences between those various 'lights' , apparitions, states of Mind and guides you through it from the beginning to the end .

Possibly every dying or dead person in Tibetan history happened to be read the text .

Did it change something ? I believe so. The treasure of wisdom teachings, both natural , inborn and acquired .. shared among Tibetan people is incredibly deep and vast .
They had to face very hard fate to this day , survived some of the harshest climates and were almost wiped out of the earth by those communist , atheistic , chinese haters .
They're not 'all enlightened' but the percentage of enlightened individuals among Tibetan populace , or generally, people of deep wisdom is certainly much higher than anywhere on this planet . Similarly, they've adopted the Compassion teachings as their chief practise , mantra and motivation and it's shaped them as nation over generations to present day .

What makes me really sad is watching this world where individual human life comes to have as little value as one of lab rat , and unless you're so lucky to have some sort of great and intelligent family , it's easy to end up alone , live alone and die alone.
Millions of people are dying in wars, hospitals , somewhere .. and who cares about their soul journey .

Of course, late is not too late but I liked Christines post the most .. we have to care of who we are , here and now, no matter what you call it .

While at the Tibetan culture .. I remember one book I loved that is a collection of Bon Dzogchen teachings , and a quote that remained in my mind for long time ..it sounded like this :

Day birds have great Eagle eyes and Night Birds have deep Owl Eyes but to the fast and steady horse on his track , Day and Night look one and the same ...


Oh well. Wishing us all great realisations and accomplishments .

[Synchronicity]

Yes, the idea that we are alone just isn't true. We always have so much guidance and help around us...always. We choose to experience it or to live alone in fear. I agree that looking up and looking inside make the whole difference in life. I see people moving from fear to joy, and letting that fear go makes the difference between being afraid and never growing or healing and living a wonderful, full life. It isn't whether you see a light or walk off a ship as I saw an elderly ex-Navy man do, whether you see grass and trees, your loved ones, your dog, or you simply slip off into the place to heal and find out what is next for you. Our journey doesn't have to be one of low level energy and fear. It's what goes on inside us...what our experience is...what do we learn we can do and be, whether we risk it or huddle in the corner afraid to speak or think that counts.

It isn't about what this group or that society says, and it's not what any secret documents say that matters. It's what is in your heart, mind, what your intent in this universe is, whether you are who you are here to be, and the mark you leave when you move on after this life that matters. What you see when you die isn't the point either. It's what you do before you die and after you die that matters. Do we learn and move on? Move up? Or have to come back and redo the whole thing from another perspective because we didn't pay attention the million times we had the opportunity to move on? We definitely can shift our vibrations up if we are ready and open to it, but they can shift down if we get mired in what really doesn't matter.

Just my view...do we concentrate on the lower energy and get sucked into all the distractions of secrets and what might happen, into the fear that is blown at us from all angles, or do we look up, look forward, and work on ourselves? Why not see light? Why not step out into the sunlight and bask in it? Why not reach for the moon and stars and feel earth beneath our feet? Who cares what games secret groups are playing? Wouldn't it be sad if someone told us all to not go into the light and that was the whole point of being here? I'm not saying it is, but listen to your inner wisdom, your guides, and embrace your shadows since they are your strengths! That is what the journey is about, I personally think, and our core selves are who stays with us over lifetimes and is the most important.

Okay...sorry I went on there...I will stop now. But don't let all the lower energy pull you in is what I would say.

[ghostrider]

robert morningsky also said , don't go to the light, it's a trap to reprogram us before we re-incarnate ... neat trap , you feel love , and are drawn to it ...

[cursichella1]

Posted by Finefeather (here)

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
One way to look at this is to consider that, let's say for the last 10,000 years, there hasn't been much more than one iota of improvement on Earth from any of these dudes that went into that white light... when back on the ground... How come?

See?

10,000 years of prayers, hopes, incense burning, sacrifices, immolations, etc... and have a good look at where we are at.... I don't know about anyone else but I find that such an end result is an indication that there is something terribly not quite right.

This is more than wrong...it is almost blindness.
How many people do you think have been helped just by NDE reporting alone...where this light is mentioned...there are thousands of books out there...research is taking place.
There are videos and books all over the internet of how this experience has improved the way people think and have changed dramatically, for the better, since these experiences.

I hope you have one soon so you can get enwhitened...I mean enlightened

The fact that so many are being reported now doesn't necessarily make it a positive thing. I'm sure most that report near death experiences are sincere, but think about all of the deception going on. Would it be difficult for a negative entity to project a Disney in the nethers to a vulnerable human (physically very ill, chakras shot, spiritually on the fence)? Seems to me that time could be one of the easiest? Maybe a trap to keep us here. If one consents to following a negative's suggestion to go where they've been nudged to go, what law bypasses that consent and forces one to graduate to a higher realms?

Or this could be total disinfo to keep one from graduating to higher realms? Can one really know before they "know"? Until that time, the safest bet seems to be a non-stop return to Source, bypassing any distractions and pretty colors en route. I don't like the odds on choosing between the other two. Is there anything about a return to Source that could be wrong?

[Finefeather]

Posted by heyokah (here)

Posted by Finefeather (here)

Posted by observer (here)
I'm convinced, from the records of antiquity, that the Golden Light is the light to seek. If one considers most of the earliest civilizations of Humanity were Sun Worshipers, it only stands to reason the Golden Light of the sun is the exit from the matrix.

Actually the suns light is white...all you have to do is use some prisms and you will notice it's pure white light.
the Sun is white, not yellow.

It feels YELLOW

That's only because you are so mellow....yellow

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=nrbni0tVBZ8

[Ealiss]

Posted by Christine (here)
My first thought on reading this thread was, how odd to find this fine group of people taking sides on whether to go to the white light or not… Um, I think, I wonder what have we learned? Who determines where one goes after death of the body. You? Your mother? Your father in heaven? The ones who went before you? Your local implanters?

It seems self evident to me that by living a life of purpose, a seeker of TRUE knowledge… and finder of SELF that question can only be answered by YOU.

Why should you go to the white light? Why should you not? The question that matters most is this: Will you leave your body as an integrated BEing who knows beyond doubt who and what you are… If you do that where you decide to go after death ought to be an easy choice because you will already know where you are going.

It isn't about how we die but how we live that will determine the choices made at the moment of our transition…. but if one runs foolishly for the first light that crosses your field who would know what they missed?

For me.. I am not interested in going to some created heaven where all my ancestors rollick in fields of grass singing songs to their ancestors.. I can go there now if I choose. And I don't want to be executed by going back to source.. I am sorry but that one really got me.. Source is everything, every where, it is you and I at play in the fields of infinity.. so I don't think source would execute me any more than it would execute itself. The return to the beginning or the return to Source may be our ultimate journey in our spiral of infinity … but we surely won't be annihilated, perhaps we will find we are complete and then who knows what might be next.

All of this discussion is excellent food for thought. LIve the life of a Spiritual Warrior, the answers are inside yourSelf.

Impeccability begins with a single act that has to be
deliberate, precise and sustained. If that act is repeated long
enough, one acquires a sense of unbending intent which can be
applied to anything else. If that is accomplished the road is
clear. One thing will lead to another until the warrior realizes
his full potential. ~ Don Juan

I understand how you feel about the execution and it is a misunderstanding. I should have explained it differently. I am what people call a Spirit Warrior. In spirit I fight negative entities. I was helping a fellow psychic one day (a stranger in a facebook forum) and I went to her home (remote viewing) and saw a negative spirit. I explained how this woman looked etc. It was the ex mother in law who hated her intensely and had passed. This woman was hurting her in her sleep and causing horrible nights for her. She was jaded. So I went there and fought this woman and the cats went CRAZY. She said it felt like a scary movie. So something was happening. So basically, I fight negative beings in many different ways. And that is why "going to the creator" to me is the same as giving up your soul forever. Because if I see a soul going there, it is to ask for death. To be exterminated. I have brought souls to a place that people would call Hell (I am not religious AT all but it helps to explain it). It has gates. It has darker souls that guard it. I was later told by what people would call a demon, visiting as a diplomatic envoy, that I should be careful delivering souls to "hell" because it is better that others decide and not me, in case I misjudge a situation at some point.

Basically you are right. If an ordinary soul wants to just visit the creator and say hi, then you will meet those who "guard" as a kind of translators and you will be able to try and ask questions. But the creator is more of a ... in lack of a better word... a person. It is not a place. I went and said hi, but human speak isn't really all that effective there, it seems. I got an answer but... It is much better just to ask a spirit. What people see as "angels". And in a footnote the "angels" asked me not to call them that because the bible is only 2000 years old. A new book. Even if you count the old testament... it is still new compared to earth.... and it has no right to "own" the angels. They are much, much older and don't belong to a religion.

So I stand corrected. I was thinking of crime and punishment because that is part of my work in the spirit world. In my experience people who want to die, go to the creator and ask for it. But of course you can go out of curiosity with a list of questions. I'd forgotten and am happy to be reminded and corrected. My bad.

As for the description of what people tend to call "Heaven", then it is not a place you have to go. I guess you can call it a train station in the sky. You go there to check in. To make sure you passed over properly. After that you can go anywhere you want. I do. But it is complicated to explain. Some people choose to stay and tend their gardens. Some choose to go and get an education. There are also different jobs you can choose to have. I remember helping soldiers who died in the battlefield as they passed, and they were often alone and scared and filled with dramatic emotions and understandably so. I was one of many who helped them pass and helped work with them after, to make them see life a bit more positively again. But there's lots going on there. You can fly. So I remember flying across the golden sunset waves of a coastline, looking at the birds, the trees, everything and loving earth so deeply. I remember thinking that no matter how horrid earth life could be, I needed to come back to try and help earth survive. Do my little bit, any old way I could.

[Ealiss]

After just writing a long reply to a member on this topic I decided that perhaps I should add some of that reply here. Because there is so much fear of the afterlife and a wish to know how much power the different aliens and evil entities have over us when we die.

So here it goes. I know I have no proof, but neither do any of the gurus. This is based on what I have seen and learned and remember as well as some details I have learned from a variety of sources, while reading up on Egypt and so forth.

People fear the... reptiles, the gray men, the Annunaki and Hathor.... the government... But on the other side, these have no power. Maybe that is something that isn't talked about... and how can people know if they don't "walk in both worlds". If you imagine earth life as a school yard then the Annunaki / Hathor are the bullies that dunk the first graders heads in the toilet bowl and in this case, much worse. BUT.... even though it seems like the school principal doesn't care... then that is because people do not realize who the true school principal is. It is you - me - all of humanity. Us. We decide as a group. Our souls are part of a democracy as a soul group. Not a dictatorship with a god that resides over us. Granted, that mother earth can get so sick n tired of us that she can explode or remove the air that is still left and just kill us, but... other than that... we are part of a soul group who decide together.

So why is the world hell? Because it is! It also has love and great things but there is so much evil that it boggles the mind. WHY? Well, I've been thinking about that a lot. It is hell for so many because humans are not really complete. We are "half human" right now. When we were created as a "blueprint" in the angelic form (no actual wings - that is creative license) we were just as smart and all knowing as angels and could do all sorts of things. We were also pretty much immortal. And then we lost it. We didn't know why. We became "half brained" humans full of fear and fear led to hate, and for some, hate led to abuse. Which is where we are now. At the bottom of the barrel of hate and fear and destruction.
Add to the mix the reptiles (who were killed recently according to Chris Thomas, which is why politicians don't have the same sway over us as they used to.) - and also add the evil Annunaki / Hathor and the evil Lord Sananda stuff to try and steal earth from us and get us all killed. Not an easy thing to fight for us as individuals.

EDIT: (Need to add): All those cries for help have been heard. All that pain has been noticed by the collective. We do know that things are horrendous! And that it cannot go on. Which is why we had a talk with mother earth who loves us despite of ourselves, - and decided to change everything. On a higher level (where most of our brain is hiding in the subconscious) we are already heading into the big change. Partly because of earth having gone into a new cycle, and partly because of the added vibration change.

That means we are doing important work now as a human collective. On a higher level. All of you matter tremendously. Your opinion matters more than you know. If you decide that you want the evil Annunaki / Hathor to stay on earth then they will linger much longer than they should. (They have already been given an eviction notice. The universe has put their brothers and sisters in indefinate quaranteene. So make no mistake - this is life or death for them and WE are their enemy.) They need to go. Stop telling the Lord Sananda (Annunaki) that he can land, please. These beings are part of the worst things that are happening on earth.

As a human collective, with earths vibration going up to a positive energy (think of a positive song) and there will no longer be room for evil energies. Hang in there, help get to the positive, tell the negative to go away, and you will be helping earth and our greater collective tremendously.

My 2 cents I know. But for what it's worth. Keep your own power do not give it away.

I recommend that you listen to Penney Pierce on how we are reaching a higher vibration on Youtube for example.

[araucaria]

Posted by thunder24 (here)
Dang I could use a smoke, anybody gotta light?

Just done a forum search:

Sorry - no matches

[greybeard]

There is so much positive evidence regarding NDE.
In particular the brain surgeon Eben Alexander's turn around regarding what happens in the brain in NDE.
Oh well we will find out soon enough.

Chris

Deleted (name) as it is no longer relevant.
The thread stands on its own as a valid question to be answered as best we can.

Chris

[Finefeather]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Simon Se-krap has it back to front.
There is so much positive evidence regarding NDE.
In particular the brain surgeon Eben Alexander's turn around regarding what happens in the brain in NDE.
Oh well we will find out soon enough.

Chris

I think the Eben Alexander story is quite exciting and I send it to as many people as I think will be responsive.

And...Yes Chris...I guess you and I are quite far along the queue to finding out...again...just how beautiful the transition is going to be...can't wait
That is of course assuming we don't live forever here on "the prison planet"

Anyway I'm ready for any action along the way...like ducking out of sight of the archons...and using my special reflector to avoid the "soul catcher beam"

Love to you brother
Ray

[heyokah]

Posted by Agape (here)


It's been discussed and will be discussed here yet many times and I'd encourage everyone disrespective of their religious backgrounds to get own copy of the Bardo Thodrol for full explanation about the process of dying, visions and lights you may experience . While living or leaving this state of human existence .

Hallo agape, thank you for your post, which gives me an opportunity to say something about the Bardo Thodol.
We are discussing here the different Lights that can be seen at the moment of transition and their 'realms' they could lead to, which by many is seen as fear mongering.

I've been a student of quite some Buddhist teachers during my life, among which Sogyal Rimpoche the pupil of Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche, which was my first teacher.
So I happen to be familiar with the Tibetan Book of the Dead (Bardo Thodol) and Sogyal's version, which is more suitable to the Western world, The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying.


Reading the Bardos again, I can't see much difference in, what some members would call, 'fear mongering' between the Bardos and the insights of Robert Morning Star.
I will show you some Lights and Realms that are told to be there.... (I'm taking parts out of the text here, skipping most of the instructions as one can read them for one selves.)

****

1. The First Bardo Afterlife Realm
The first bardo comes at the very moment of death, when there dawns the Clear Light of the Ultimate Reality.
This is the very content and substance of the state of liberation, if only the soul can recognize it and act in a way to remain in that state.
The instructions intended to be read at the moment of the person's death are designed to help him do this.

Most souls, however, will fail to do this. They will be pulled down by the weight of their karma into the second stage of the first bardo, called the Secondary Clear Light seen immediately after death.

2. The Second Bardo
If the soul is still not liberated at this stage, it will descend into the second bardo, which is said to last for two weeks. The second bardo is also divided into two parts; in the first, the soul of the deceased encounters what are referred to as "the Peaceful Deities.

-On the first day of the second bardo, there appears to the soul the divine Father-Mother - that is, the supreme deity of the universe, transcending all dualities, including the division into sexes
-On the second day, there appears the second-highest God in the Buddhist pantheon - in fact, he is actually the Second Person in the literal Buddhist Holy Trinity.
At the same time, there dawns a smoky light from hell; and here we note that, just as the Buddhist heaven is not a permanent, eternal state, neither is its hell.
Even the most wretched souls will eventually work their way out of even the deepest pit of hell, just as even the highest and purest souls will eventually lose their footing in heaven and descend again into the cycle of death and rebirth.
Liberation is the only way out.
Once again, if the soul responds to the "dazzling white light" of the second God with the joy of a pure heart, he will be liberated thereby; but if he specifically reacts with ANGER from having indulged in this vice on Earth, he will recoil from the light in fear and be drawn into hell.
- On the third day; this time it is the fault if egotism that will cause the soul to react to the God with fear, and he will be drawn to the human world, where his next incarnation will thereby take place.
- On the fourth day dawns the God of Eternal Life; if the soul has a negative reaction to him because of miserliness and attachment, he will be drawn toward rebirth in the Preta-Loka, a world of "hungry ghosts" who have huge stomachs and throats the size of pinholes, and so they wander about in a constant state of unsatisfied ravenous desire.
-On the fifth day comes God in the form of an Almighty Conqueror; this time it's jealousy that will unseat the soul, and he will be born into the Asura-Loka, a world of fierce warrior-deities (or demons).
-On the sixth day all the deities return and dawn together, along with the lights from all six Lokas.
-On the seventh day there appear the Knowledge-Holding Deities, who are more fierce and demonic-looking than those that have previously dawned; and in fact they are sort of a transitional element to the next stage of the second bardo, where the soul encounters the wrathful deities.

Meanwhile, if because of stupidity the soul cannot face the Knowledge-Holding Deities, he is drawn toward the Brute-Loka - that is, he will be reborn on Earth as an animal.

In the second week of the second bardo, the soul meets seven legions of Wrathful Deities: hideous, terrifying demons who advance upon him with flame and sword, drinking blood from human skulls, threatening to wreak unmerciful torture upon him, to maim, disembowel, decapitate and slay him.
The natural tendency, of course, is for the soul to attempt to flee from these beings in stark, screaming, blood-curdled terror;but if he does, all is lost.

(Again, I left out the instructions.)

3. The Third Bardo
In the third bardo the soul encounters the Lord of Death, a fearsome demonic deity who appears in smoke and fire, and subjects the soul to a Judgment.
If the dead person protests that he has done no evil, the Lord of Death holds up before him the Mirror of Karma, "wherein every good and evil act is vividly reflected."
Now demons approach and begin to inflict torments and punishments upon the soul for his evil deeds.

The instructions in the Bardo Thodol are for him to attempt to recognize the Voidness of all these beings, including the Lord of Death himself; the dead person is told that this entire scene unfolding around him is a projection from his own mind.
Even here he can attain liberation by recognizing this.

The soul who is still not liberated after the Judgment will now be drawn remorselessly toward rebirth.

The lights of the six Lokas will dawn again; into one of these worlds the soul must be born, and the light of the one he is destined for will shine more brightly than the others.

The soul is still experiencing the frightening apparitions and sufferings of the third bardo, and he feels that he will do anything to escape from this condition.
He will seek shelter in what appear to be caves or hiding-places, but which are actually the entrances to wombs.
He is warned of this by the text of the Bardo Thodol, and urged not to enter them, but to meditate upon the Clear Light instead; for it is still possible for him to achieve the third degree of liberation and avoid rebirth.

Finally there comes a point where it is no longer possible to attain liberation, and after this the soul is given instructions on how to choose the best womb for a favorable incarnation.

The basic method is non-attachment:to try to rise above both attraction to worldly pleasures and repulsion from worldly ills.

The final words of the Bardo Thodol are: "Let virtue and goodness be perfected in every way."

-

"Be not fond of the dull smoke-colored light from hell." - Tibetan Book of the Dead

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/buddhism01.html


From "Death"
The Stages of the
Bardo of Becoming

For most beings, the lights that appear now are pale in comparison to the vivid lights of the bardo of dharmata.

When we see them, we will naturally feel drawn to one more than others.
However, the instruction at this time is to refrain from allowing ourselves to be drawn into any one of these states.

The white light that appears is associated with the realm of the gods, the red light with the realm of the jealous gods, the blue light with the human realm, the green light with the animal realm, the yellow light with the hungry ghost realm, and the dark, fog-like light with the hell realm.

http://www.ralphmag.org/FJ/ponlop-reading.html