Is the white light after we die a trap?

[araucaria]

As I recall, one thing Simon said about the light what made it highly suspect was that it was being pushed by Hollywood. I’m sure he has other reasons as well for saying what he says, but Hollywood is also a source of partial disclosure and there are no doubt several levels to this.

There are also several levels to Simon himself owing to his triple roots, and it cannot be easy being one third reptilian. Maybe we need to learn more about how he integrates that part of himself and processes it. His own makeup is the very embodiment of a three-way struggle. Think of the simpler case of a German citizen who was a UK resident during World War II. They would have been seen as a potential traitor by both sides because the wartime mentality of black-and-white patriotism could not get its head round the notion of a peace-loving German anglophile. For they might have been a real agent (or double agent) under the innocent disguise of a peace-loving German anglophile. This was a difficult situation for all concerned. This is how Simon’s credibility comes on the line, even for people for whom his genuine caring and other qualities are not in doubt.

[Limor Wolf]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Simon Se-krap has it back to front.
There is so much positive evidence regarding NDE.
In particular the brain surgeon Eben Alexander's turn around regarding what happens in the brain in NDE.
Oh well we will find out soon enough.

Chris

And there is so much positive evidence regarding everything to do with our earth, Chris, but you know as well as everyone else here that not everything that shines is a genuine gold. Technological development in medicine can yield good results, People can get better with transplants in a system that in itself makes the people chronically ill, they will surely be happy to take this result.. think about it. One may cancel the understanding that our planet is under alien influence at all, one may refuse to believe that there is life outside of this place, (and I am sorry, I do not know where you yourself stand with that). Many things on this earth which are not serving the best potential of human beings are hidden under a glitzy and ilusory appearence. Not every truth will be found in scriptures or be voiced by any one wise man or another, because there is a lot that was taken from us with regards to the freedom of our physical body-machines and left us with limited ability for perceptiveness of this endless incarnational recycle of reality (not unlike a hamster on a wheel), therefore no real liberation when it comes to information or knowing where we live. so while we peel the layers from our densed existance into a more lighter version of ourself, surely it is affordable to keep an open mind as well as attantive ear for those who just might, by their personal experience be able to grasp that which is beyond our ability to see, such as Simon, without any necessity to accept what he says as the real truth, maybe simply just ponder.

It may be worth it if we examine with great care such information if it is our true desire to expand ourselvs as human beings, becuase there are many frames to this reality besides this one and as oppose to what you wrote, we may not at all get the chance to find out soon enough, since we have and had this chance many times already, and we always take the bait.. a lot of our dreams are being shattered at this time, but new visions of reality are emerging and consider everything with an open mind is not stupidity but a virtue.

All the best to you,

Limor

[Hervé]

In my view, and in seeing the widespread publicity for, and MSM "success" of, NDEs (i.e. not hindered nor suppressed), me think somebody is doing some heavy recruiting for ... something.

Here is the rationale from "Remote Viewing"'s grandaddy:

The third part begins with a presentation of certain social phenomena regarding the problems of telepathy that can be factually identified. These, however, set the background for the strange and surprising scenario they lead into, although the scenario is admittedly speculative in nature. Some have advised me not to publish this book - on the grounds that it challenges those echelons of conventional credibility that lasciviously get off on deconstructing those unfortunates who experience what they can’t prove.

I have been mindful of this opportunistic factor for several decades. But my age is advancing and I have become interested in recording and wrapping up my active research into Psi phenomena in order to pursue less stressful vistas. As I have discussed in other writings, I have always been interested in Psi phenomena, and beginning in 1970 it chanced that opportunities to extend that interest in depth were made available. Anyone with more than a mere superficial interest in Psi phenomena must of course encounter the rather smelly morass of social resistance whereby the authenticity of those phenomena are methodically deconstructed, thus suspending them in doubt.

This social resistance, even if smelly, has largely been successful in destroying all concerted approaches to Psi phenomena. This success is specifically active within high strata of societal power, and which strata are otherwise entirely disinterested in what lesser mortals DO experience along these lines. Why it is that governing societal factors need to deconstruct the provable existence of at least some vital Psi phenomena is therefore something that needs to be examined and understood.

Along these lines of inquiry, the existence and methods of the machinations against Psi development can easily be brought to light. But the reasons that govern the implementation of the machinations none the less remain obscured.

Thus, the societal resistance to Psi breaks neatly into two aspects:

· to prevent Psi development

· to keep obscure the actual reasons for doing so

One reason for the blanket suppression which has been offered up by many before me is that effective formats of Psi would disturb any number of social institutions. Those institutions would feel “threatened” by developed formats of, say, telepathy, which might thereafter be utilized to penetrate their secrets.

There is some rather clear truth in this. Indeed, it is because of this truth that some echelons of humans are at war with the Psi potentials of the human species - because those echelons have motivations they would prefer never to be disclosed via Psi penetration. If this is the case, the chief preventive measure would be to stamp out altogether any real understanding of Psi. Indeed, something like this has taken place. And their cognizance of the nature of the situation might remain - more or less being defined as humans in conflict with their own Psi potentials because Psi penetrates secrets.

Indeed, on my part for a long time I assumed that this was the beginning and end of the story regarding the methodical suppression of Psi by high societal echelons - such as represented by government, science, academe and media. As it happened, however, the events described in Part One of this book occurred beginning in 1975. These are the events I can’t prove. None the less they made somewhat visible another possible aspect that might be factored into the odoriferous suppression of Psi that was already familiar to me.

This aspect required that I introduce two unusual terms: Earth-side and Space-side.

These refer, of course, to Earth-side intelligence and Space-side intelligence. The central hypothesis of this book is that, if developed, Psi potentials would be an invasive threat to Earth-side intelligences; then, developed Earth-side Psi would also be a threat to Space-side intelligences. After all, in that telepathy, for example, is invasively defined as reading minds, the distinction between reading Earth-side minds and Space-side minds would be very narrow.

The only real problem in considering this is whether or not Space-siders exist.

I have decided not to enter into the relevant debate about this issue, but direct the reader to the copious literature already existing, with special regard to the weekly UFO ROUND-UP that can be located in the Internet (see bibliography).

The inclusion in this book of the story I can't prove is not being offered as evidence about the existence of Space-side intelligence, but because the reader deserves to know why I have concluded there is far more to telepathy than commonly conceived in Earth-side terms. In this, the thinking proceeds from actual experience and not from analyzing the Information packages presented in the works of others.

The works of others, of course, have proved to be valuable in the long run, and they certainly introduce a modicum of authenticity that would otherwise go completely missing. In the end, though, the authenticity of my personal, improvable, experience probably doesn’t need to be considered all that much - because the drift of accumulating information is inexorably leading to establishing the authentic existence of extraterrestrial intelligences anyway.

One factor that won’t be apparent throughout this book is the large amount of time (years actually) it took to achieve the synthesis of the factors presented. I tend to be a rather slow thinker, and am sometimes even slower on the up-take. I had originally intended to include a lengthy discussion regarding the probability that telepathy might be a universal “language” system of some kind that operates through consciousness entities everywhere.

I briefly allude to this in Part Three, but otherwise have decided to include that discussion in another work - because it needs a larger information basis that includes the nature of energy organisms.

But I feel obliged to comment on some of the reasons I decided to go ahead with the book after so many years have passed. In late 1990, I read a well-documented report of a large UFO craft sighted in the former USSR. The report indicated that the sighting was attested to by General Igor Maltsev, chief of the main staff of Air Defense Forces, and published in Tabochaya Tribuna, 29, dated April 1990.

The report quoted General Maltsev as saying:

“I am not a specialist on UFOs and therefore I can only correlate the data and express my own supposition. According to the evidence of these eyewitnesses, the UFO is a disk with a diameter from 100 to 200 meters. Two pulsating lights were positioned on its sides..."

The article went on to state that UFOs are piloted craft and contradicted the suggestion that they are mere atmospheric phenomena. If the sighted craft was indeed 200 meters, it was about 650 feet, or somewhat larger than a football field.

Meanwhile, there were other notable sightings elsewhere and video footage was being obtained regarding a lot of them. Such reports got me ruminating about my 1975 experiences, with the result that I decided to write them down before my memory began deteriorating more than it already had.

Between 1976 and 1990, I gradually concluded that Earth-siders and Space-siders didn’t seem to have much in common - with the exception of telepathy. By all contactee and abductee accounts, telepathic capacities seem to be well-developed by the ET’s, but remained quite undeveloped Earth-side. I expanded the narration of the events to include some fundamental considerations of telepathy, and which theorized WHY development of telepathy is suppressed Earth-side.

In due course, I showed the manuscript to my then literary rep, who got excited about it, and thought that its successful publication was a sure and easy thing.

Over twenty publishers turned it down - even in the face of the fact that much UFO-ET stuff ranging from bulls**t to the sublime fantastic was otherwise being published everywhere.

This blanket rejection on such a large scale remains, as it were, mysterious. Perhaps it can be interpreted as some kind of subtle, large-scale media control.

But one possible explanation might be that as outrageous as the tale and telepathic considerations are, something in them moves too close to Someone’s comfort.

In any event, because of frustration, embarrassment, etc., I abandoned this book project. And some more years passed. In about March, 1998, however, certain articles and TV reports centering on ET possibilities began circulating, among which were a few entitled “Astonishing Intelligent Artifacts (?) Found On Mysterious Far Side Of The Moon.”

Then, via a report in the Internet authored by David Derbyshire, dated May 14, 1998, it seems that a “24,000 mph UFO” buzzed Britain on May 13, 1998. THIS craft was tracked by the Royal Air Force and the Dutch Air Force. It was “triangular” and “as big as a battleship. About 900 feet long. British and Dutch interceptors were sent aloft.

The Big Thing left them in the mists - and went who knows where?

Thus, there are recent authentic reports of UFOs, and indeed they seem present everywhere, and even boldly reveal themselves to the lenses of Camcorders world-wide. That the UFOs are driven or managed by Space-side intelligences simply must be taken for granted.

And if they have achieved high technological control of consciousness that is commensurate with the high technology of their craft, then I'll bet they are very good at what we Earth-siders refer to as telepathy.

[thunder24]

Posted by araucaria (here)

Posted by thunder24 (here)
Dang I could use a smoke, anybody gotta light?

Just done a forum search:

Sorry - no matches

Maybe try: Love and Lighters

[Finefeather]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
In my view, and in seeing the widespread publicity for, and MSM "success" of, NDEs (i.e. not hindered nor suppressed), me think somebody is doing some heavy recruiting for ... something.

After reading the long drawn out quote from your post above, I am not sure what your point is with regards to 'avoiding the white light' here but I'll take a guess at what you are trying to say:

<The suppression of some paranormal phenomena...called psi and telepathy in this article you posted...is held 'secret' or at bay from 'outsiders' to prevent the revelation of ….'government's' and or 'those in charge's'...secrets and plans for us lowly humans...so we cannot know what they are up to.
So the fact that main stream media (YouTube been 1) 'publishes' stories of NDE's...it must be logical therefore to assume that NDE's are some form of smoke screen...to lead everyone away from the real juicy facts.>

If this is what you mean then:
I think this is a very narrow way of looking at life and is the makings of just another conspiracy theory to satisfy the needs of ignorant people who have no means of coming to any other conclusion.

Suspicion is one thing but when the imagination joins in we sure can have some fun...don't you think?

Everyone on this planet is not totally stupid.

I also do not see what effect NDEs could have on the 'heavies in charge' because, probably all of the revelation and progress that comes from this source ends up in people changing for the better in terms of their general outlook and their dealings with people. There is no one who comes back from an NDE and brings with them a blueray disk with all the secrets of the government

Progress has very little to do with finding out what the 'enemy' is up to...and everything to do with consciousness growth to improve and spread the need for love amongst us...and the call for unity...and NDE's certainly contribute to that.

[Synchronicity]

Well, all I can say is that it is really easy to tie ourselves in knots and convince ourselves of just about anything. Sure, there are many conspiracies, but the biggest control anyone could ever have one anyone is to convince him or her not to trust himself. My NDE was what it was. I don't care what mainstream whatever says, I don't care what plots are being hatched, and (I have seen some things relating to higher ups in smokey rooms hatching plans) I refuse to live my life in fear. Whatever any announcement says, I am here now doing work that helps people. I firmly believe that what matters is what our intention is and what we choose to do to contribute to this universe, not whatever low level garbage is going on. Whether humans were brought here, chased here, imprisoned here, or created here we are here and can deny who we are and cringe for fear of being tricked or we can live and do our best. Whether this relates to Atlantis, pyramids, or whatever it relates to I am happy to consider knowledge, but will keep trying to make a difference in my little corner of the universe.

Once again I agree with Finefeather.

[Hervé]

Let's see,

Ad Hominem --- Checked

Ridicule-------- Checked

Dismissive ----- Checked

Belittling ------ Checked

[Synchronicity]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
Let's see,

Ad Hominem --- Checked

Ridicule-------- Checked

Dismissive ----- Checked

Belittling ------ Checked

Did you mean my post? Just clarifying. If so I was speaking for myself and not what others think or do. It isn't my place to tell anyone else what is right for them...just saying what feels right to me. To each his own, of course.

[Jake]

I can draw a parallel between the 'seeing of the white light' to the scene in '2001 A Space Odyssey',, where the monkeys come across the Monolith.. (not calling anyone a monkey!! ) The monkeys had absolutely no idea what it was that they had come across.. Yet they were completely awestruck by the 'new potential' that had invaded their existence.. The profound impact on them, and the sharp direction that their minds took,, caused a new way of thinking,, albeit very subtle. Yet it became the most important moment in history, regarding self realization. This becomes true, with regards folks who have experienced an NDE... it becomes the most profound and transformative experience of their lives....

I live a double life... I travel out of my body so much that very often, the lines are blurred... Christine is right. What matters is NOW!

There are all sorts Amazing and personally profound events that you open yourself up to, once one has embraced the Astral.. The white light is 'sudden', and seems to be an NDE thing. Not that I have not experienced the same sort of thing. I have had a relationship with the most wonderful white 'healing' light,, for some time now. The first time I experienced it,, it was quite intense and I could barely sustain consciousness. It is still an intense experience, but bearable... It may or may not be the same White light,,, I don't know. I am suspicious only because there is SOOOO MUCH to experience on the other side,,, I get to wondering why the 'white light' is so very prevalent in NDE's. There are sooooo many other things to experience... If the white light means 'death',, then I have died manymany times, in this single life!!!

People seem to liken the white light unto 'heaven' or 'angelic'... I believe both of those to be states of being,,,, rather than 'places', and a 'white light' is irrelevant..

I'll echo it again,,, What matters is right here right now,,, As far as the white light goes,,, we will see..

Jake

[Synchronicity]

Posted by Jake (here)
I can draw a parallel between the 'seeing of the white light' to the scene in '2001 A Space Odyssey',, where the monkeys come across the Monolith.. (not calling anyone a monkey!! ) The monkeys had absolutely no idea what it was that they had come across.. Yet they were completely awestruck by the 'new potential' that had invaded their existence.. The profound impact on them, and the sharp direction that their minds took,, caused a new way of thinking,, albeit very subtle. Yet it became the most important moment in history, regarding self realization. This becomes true, with regards folks who have experienced an NDE... it becomes the most profound and transformative experience of their lives....

I live a double life... I travel out of my body so much that very often, the lines are blurred... Christine is right. What matters is NOW!

There are all sorts Amazing and personally profound events that you open yourself up to, once one has embraced the Astral.. The white light is 'sudden', and seems to be an NDE thing. Not that I have not experienced the same sort of thing. I have had a relationship with the most wonderful white 'healing' light,, for some time now. The first time I experienced it,, it was quite intense and I could barely sustain consciousness. It is still an intense experience, but bearable... It may or may not be the same White light,,, I don't know. I am suspicious only because there is SOOOO MUCH to experience on the other side,,, I get to wondering why the 'white light' is so very prevalent in NDE's. There are sooooo many other things to experience... If the white light means 'death',, then I have died manymany times, in this single life!!!

People seem to liken the white light unto 'heaven' or 'angelic'... I believe both of those to be states of being,,,, rather than 'places', and a 'white light' is irrelevant..

I'll echo it again,,, What matters is right here right now,,, As far as the white light goes,,, we will see..

Jake

I understand the blurring..yes. And you make good points. I guess that is what I was thinking in that what we do this moment is, in the long run, what matters. And in that next moment when it's here and on and on. I agree that the universe is much more than it appears to be and we can be/do much more than we are usually taught. The wonders are amazing and the light is amazing as well. That is my experience, anyway.

[Hervé]

Anyway, my # 60 post on "Earth-side" and "Space-side" intelligences was an introduction to this:

Back at work, Axel gave me Moon coordinates, each set representing specific locations on the Moon’s surface. At some of the locations there seemed to be nothing to see except Moonscapes. But at others locations? - well, there were confusions, and I perceived a lot that I could not understand at all. I made a lot of sketches, identifying them as this or that, or looking like something else.

Without comments, Axelrod quickly took possession of each sketch, and I was never to see them again.

I found towers, machinery, lights of different colors, strange -looking “buildings.” I found bridges whose function I couldn’t figure out. One of them just arched out - and never landed anywhere. There were a lot of domes of various sizes, round things, things like small saucers with windows. These were stored next to crater sides, sometimes in caves, sometimes in what looked like airfield hangars. I had problems estimating sizes. But some of the “things” were very large. I found long tube-like things, machinery-tractor-like things going up and down hills, straight roads extending some miles, obelisks which had no apparent function.

There were large platforms on domes, large cross-like structures. Holes being dug into crater walls and floors obviously having to do with some kind of mining or earth-moving operations. There were “nets” over craters, “houses” in which someone obviously lived, except that I couldn’t see who - save in one case. In THAT case, I saw some kind of people busy at work on something I could not figure out. The place was dark. The “air" was filled with a fine dust, and there was some kind of illumination - like a dark lime-green fog or mist.

The thing about them was that they either were human or looked exactly like us - but they were all males, as I could well see since they were all butt-ass naked. I had absolutely no idea why. They seemed to be digging into a hillside or a cliff. As I described,

“They must have some way of creating a good environment, warm and with air in it. But why would they be going around naked?”

No answer was forthcoming to this self-question.

But being there in my psychic state, as I felt I was, some of those guys started talking excitedly and gesticulating. Two of them pointed in my “direction.” Immediately I felt like “running away” and hiding, which I guess I psychically did, since I “lost” sight of this particular imaging.

“I think they have spotted me, Axel. They were pointing at me I think. How could they do that... unless..., they have some kind of high psychic perceptions, too?”

Axel said in a calm, low voice, so low I hardly heard it at first.

“Please quickly come away from that place.”

My eyes were wide as understanding drained in,

“You already know they are psychic, don’t you?”

Axel raised his eyebrows and gave a deep sigh. And, at that point, he abruptly closed his folders,
“I think we had better end our work here.”

I was quite surprised. But I had not fallen of the psychic truck just yesterday.

“You think, you already KNOW, that they have some kind of, uh, telepathy - that they can trace where this psychic probe is coming from? Is that it?”

Axel had started smiling again, but obviously was not going to respond, “Come on, Axel, loosen up a little.” But I was not to be deterred.

“Would they kill an Earth-psychic if they felt he or she was good enough to spy on them?”

“There is no conclusive evidence to suggest that,” Axel responded. I gritted my teeth.

“No ‘conclusive’ evidence! What the hell does THAT mean?”

My voice had climbed several octaves.

“It’s very difficult for us to assess any of this," Axelrod began. “We don’t know, but that they do have things and capabilities we here are trying to understand is very apparent. Whether they spotted you or not will be unclear, but we have to put no prejudgments on what guides our mission.

“At any rate, we don’t want to put you to any more risk. Let’s eat some dinner, and then get you back to New York.

“I’m afraid we have to repeat the process used to get you out of here. I hope you don’t mind. We are very grateful.”

“RISK!!! What do you mean by RISK?”

I could see that Axelrod was prepared to be noncommittal. So I took the initiative.

“If it’s telepathy, then it’s a different kind, at least from how it is understood here on Earth. It’s NOT just telepathy, either.”

THIS got his attention. He looked at me in surprise.

“What do you mean?"

At this, I FINALLY comprehended that his earlier interest in telepathy had not been just innocent chit-chat.

“Well, I don’t know exactly. It’s more than just mind-to-mind. It’s like, well...”. I was grasping for words.

“Well, when they ‘saw’ me, they couldn’t really see me, could they? What, then were they seeing? I’m asking myself this, Axel?”

“Yes, go on,” he said.

“Well, it’s more like they were..."

FEELING rather than seeing or picking up on mind vibes. It’s more like it was, yes, sort of a dimensional thing - rather, sort of like a ripple in some kind of cross-dimensionality. Yes! That’s it! They FELT something. Not particularly ME. But SOMETHING.

I paused:

“And! THEY knew what the ripple meant. Like a sort of penetration of where they were.” I paused, then said in a self-introspecting way: “WOW!”

Axelrod sat quietly, as was his way, looking at me. Then: “Why did you say WOW?”

“Ah! Well, if I can articulate it, ...it was like there is a sort of... cross-dimensional... Well, if you can imagine that you feel a presence but can’t see it, it was something like that.

“Only those guys... they were going to hone in on it, at least that’s the best way to describe it.”

Axelrod was silent for a moment. “So, you are referring to telepathy plus something else?

“No, not exactly. Perhaps SOMETHING ELSE plus telepathy. It’s the other way around. After all, the basis for telepathy has to come from something - rather, because of something.”

“What do you mean?”

“Well, nothing happens all by itself. There are always processes involved. This is to say, things happen by way of something. Nothing comes out of thin air. It’s hard to articulate in simple three-dimensional terms, Mind-to-mind is a three-dimensional construct. But what if...“

Axelrod interrupted. “Why would mind-to-mind be a three dimensional...?”

“Well, one mind existing as a three-dimensional thing communicating with another which is also a three-dimensional thing, and the communicating across the distance... is not the distance involved conceived of in three-dimensional terms?

“The PHYSICAL universe is three-dimensional - not the mental universe. Here is one of the big flaws in all theories about Psi. Everyone thinks of Psi ONLY in three-dimensional terms.”

I ran out of words at this point.

I guess that, with the above, I may also be the only one to see that a disembodied human can be easily spotted and ready for the taking by those "Out-There Guys," even when "surprised."

From there to setting "white light" traps to prevent eying astral tourists from reporting strange space on goings is nothing for space-farers having mastered "telepathy" and its electromagnatic make up.

[greybeard]

Re post 59
Limor I agree that it is important to look at this and that and cross check where possible.

My age has something to do with my current way of perceiving things.

In my teens I went through Jules Verne--all the science fiction I could find, Chariot of the Gods, not fiction.
Some bizarre and scary stuff too.
I had a lot of fear and some panic attacks which may or may not be related to some of my beliefs of that time.
Eventually there was full blown alcoholism to contend with and all that goes with that.
To the good that started the spiritual quest.

When I look at some new information I tend to say " Does this benefit my life now? Is it based on fear--lead to fear or just valid information?
If its a positive influence (thats a personal thing) then I keep it. If I dont feel right about it I let it go.)

I do believe in extra terrestrials, science and spirituality linked.
The whole universe and everything in it pulses in and out of existence a zillion times every second.
Now that's some thing to ponder.

Why worry about what happens after the death of the body when you dont know what you are?
My bag is enlightenment and having studied this for years I find that the teachers focus only on "Find out what you are and all questions then are irrelevant--find out who is asking the questions"

So assuming you become enlightened, then, the white light is irrelevant--and--you are not coming back to this university.

Chris

[Delight]

Posted by heyokah (here)

Posted by Agape (here)


It's been discussed and will be discussed here yet many times and I'd encourage everyone disrespective of their religious backgrounds to get own copy of the Bardo Thodrol for full explanation about the process of dying, visions and lights you may experience . While living or leaving this state of human existence .

Hallo agape, thank you for your post, which gives me an opportunity to say something about the Bardo Thodol.
We are discussing here the different Lights that can be seen at the moment of transition and their 'realms' they could lead to, which by many is seen as fear mongering.

I appreciate the information from you and Agape.
I think this thread contributes reassurance in a way that it is very useful.
In reading about the Bardo Thodol, I notice something.
In every case it is the individual who cannot see the light or hides from the light or refuses the light.
How convenient then to have a bunch of muggers rip off travelers of their confidence?
But again, it is up to the individual to discern. There are no irrevocable events in the path but repetition gets stale. We are at a pivotal moment in our own lives when we cross the Liminal threshold. If we have already cleared our obstacles and attachments we can embrace the light.

It may have been Synchronicity (love the posts) who triggered the thought, maybe the purpose is our own investigation into the realms of the mind and our own quest "Will it be this time to "go to" the light"?

I was also encouraged by Chris and Fine Feather, Christine and others.

[heyokah]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
Anyway, my # 60 post on "Earth-side" and "Space-side" intelligences was an introduction to this:

Back at work, Axel gave me Moon coordinates, each set representing specific locations on the Moon’s surface. At some of the locations there seemed to be nothing to see except Moonscapes. But at others locations? - well, there were confusions, and I perceived a lot that I could not understand at all. I made a lot of sketches, identifying them as this or that, or looking like something else.

Without comments, Axelrod quickly took possession of each sketch, and I was never to see them again.

I found towers, machinery, lights of different colors, strange -looking “buildings.” I found bridges whose function I couldn’t figure out. One of them just arched out - and never landed anywhere. There were a lot of domes of various sizes, round things, things like small saucers with windows. These were stored next to crater sides, sometimes in caves, sometimes in what looked like airfield hangars. I had problems estimating sizes. But some of the “things” were very large. I found long tube-like things, machinery-tractor-like things going up and down hills, straight roads extending some miles, obelisks which had no apparent function.

There were large platforms on domes, large cross-like structures. Holes being dug into crater walls and floors obviously having to do with some kind of mining or earth-moving operations. There were “nets” over craters, “houses” in which someone obviously lived, except that I couldn’t see who - save in one case. In THAT case, I saw some kind of people busy at work on something I could not figure out. The place was dark. The “air" was filled with a fine dust, and there was some kind of illumination - like a dark lime-green fog or mist.

The thing about them was that they either were human or looked exactly like us - but they were all males, as I could well see since they were all butt-ass naked. I had absolutely no idea why. They seemed to be digging into a hillside or a cliff. As I described,

“They must have some way of creating a good environment, warm and with air in it. But why would they be going around naked?”

No answer was forthcoming to this self-question.

But being there in my psychic state, as I felt I was, some of those guys started talking excitedly and gesticulating. Two of them pointed in my “direction.” Immediately I felt like “running away” and hiding, which I guess I psychically did, since I “lost” sight of this particular imaging.

“I think they have spotted me, Axel. They were pointing at me I think. How could they do that... unless..., they have some kind of high psychic perceptions, too?”

Axel said in a calm, low voice, so low I hardly heard it at first.

“Please quickly come away from that place.”

My eyes were wide as understanding drained in,

“You already know they are psychic, don’t you?”

Axel raised his eyebrows and gave a deep sigh. And, at that point, he abruptly closed his folders,
“I think we had better end our work here.”

I was quite surprised. But I had not fallen of the psychic truck just yesterday.

“You think, you already KNOW, that they have some kind of, uh, telepathy - that they can trace where this psychic probe is coming from? Is that it?”

Axel had started smiling again, but obviously was not going to respond, “Come on, Axel, loosen up a little.” But I was not to be deterred.

“Would they kill an Earth-psychic if they felt he or she was good enough to spy on them?”

“There is no conclusive evidence to suggest that,” Axel responded. I gritted my teeth.

“No ‘conclusive’ evidence! What the hell does THAT mean?”

My voice had climbed several octaves.

“It’s very difficult for us to assess any of this," Axelrod began. “We don’t know, but that they do have things and capabilities we here are trying to understand is very apparent. Whether they spotted you or not will be unclear, but we have to put no prejudgments on what guides our mission.

“At any rate, we don’t want to put you to any more risk. Let’s eat some dinner, and then get you back to New York.

“I’m afraid we have to repeat the process used to get you out of here. I hope you don’t mind. We are very grateful.”

“RISK!!! What do you mean by RISK?”

I could see that Axelrod was prepared to be noncommittal. So I took the initiative.

“If it’s telepathy, then it’s a different kind, at least from how it is understood here on Earth. It’s NOT just telepathy, either.”

THIS got his attention. He looked at me in surprise.

“What do you mean?"

At this, I FINALLY comprehended that his earlier interest in telepathy had not been just innocent chit-chat.

“Well, I don’t know exactly. It’s more than just mind-to-mind. It’s like, well...”. I was grasping for words.

“Well, when they ‘saw’ me, they couldn’t really see me, could they? What, then were they seeing? I’m asking myself this, Axel?”

“Yes, go on,” he said.

“Well, it’s more like they were..."

FEELING rather than seeing or picking up on mind vibes. It’s more like it was, yes, sort of a dimensional thing - rather, sort of like a ripple in some kind of cross-dimensionality. Yes! That’s it! They FELT something. Not particularly ME. But SOMETHING.

I paused:

“And! THEY knew what the ripple meant. Like a sort of penetration of where they were.” I paused, then said in a self-introspecting way: “WOW!”

Axelrod sat quietly, as was his way, looking at me. Then: “Why did you say WOW?”

“Ah! Well, if I can articulate it, ...it was like there is a sort of... cross-dimensional... Well, if you can imagine that you feel a presence but can’t see it, it was something like that.

“Only those guys... they were going to hone in on it, at least that’s the best way to describe it.”

Axelrod was silent for a moment. “So, you are referring to telepathy plus something else?

“No, not exactly. Perhaps SOMETHING ELSE plus telepathy. It’s the other way around. After all, the basis for telepathy has to come from something - rather, because of something.”

“What do you mean?”

“Well, nothing happens all by itself. There are always processes involved. This is to say, things happen by way of something. Nothing comes out of thin air. It’s hard to articulate in simple three-dimensional terms, Mind-to-mind is a three-dimensional construct. But what if...“

Axelrod interrupted. “Why would mind-to-mind be a three dimensional...?”

“Well, one mind existing as a three-dimensional thing communicating with another which is also a three-dimensional thing, and the communicating across the distance... is not the distance involved conceived of in three-dimensional terms?

“The PHYSICAL universe is three-dimensional - not the mental universe. Here is one of the big flaws in all theories about Psi. Everyone thinks of Psi ONLY in three-dimensional terms.”

I ran out of words at this point.

I guess that, with the above, I may also be the only one to see that a disembodied human can be easily spotted and ready for the taking by those "Out-There Guys," even when "surprised."

From there to setting "white light" traps to prevent eying astral tourists from reporting strange space on goings is nothing for space-farers having mastered "telepathy" and its electromagnatic make up.

Is this drivel above now an example of derailing a thread ?

[heyokah]

Double post.
That's what you get from drivel

[onawah]

Name calling? I'm surprised and disappointed to see this here.

Posted by greybeard (here)
Simon Se-krap has it back to front.
There is so much positive evidence regarding NDE.
In particular the brain surgeon Eben Alexander's turn around regarding what happens in the brain in NDE.
Oh well we will find out soon enough.

Chris

[Delight]

There is a strange way that pandora radio speaks to me. I turned it on just now and the U2 song "One" song was on. It all of a sudden had a message about the subject. It is a dialog. What does it mean to carry each other in the path? It is not to do for others. It is to give what is true to one another. This might be what the Buddhist calls gaining merit?

If there is anything to the archon story it is that without a connection to love, we are left with the splintered mind. Without a personal reference to truth (and the mind.....can there be truth there or just stories), we cannot know what is real.

I am sure that PA and other places have proportions of intention from those who pass on information. If there is anything to be learned about all "churches", they are a group mind that seeks perpetutation of itself. One could say like Vadim Zeland that the thoughtforms create pendulums that seek to engage us in perpetuating them.

meditation is the deliberate expansion of being "mindless" with the presence of self in an emptiness. Can one stand in the empty space? The promise of meditation is that when one stands in the presence of SELF, one is renewed. It becomes a truth.

In the meantime, we are one but we are not the same. There can be disappointment if one seeks others out for the truth. They may not have it themselves but they cannot have it for you. They could give you the taste of their truth. They may intend you retain you small self allegiance to the mind because that is all they know is possible. Knowledge is telling me that all presentations come as projections from the mind filtered by awareness. My heart says reconnection with the light is all about doing that <NOW>

This song says to me: Maggie, you know you won't EVER feel better in the fractured place where there still will be someone to blame. I will pray and meditate in the harmlessness zone.

Is it getting better?
Or do you feel the same?
Will it make it easier on you now?
You got someone to blame
You say...

One love
One life
When it's one need
In the night

One love
We get to share it
Leaves you baby if you
Don't care for it

Did I disappoint you?
Or leave a bad taste in your mouth?
You act like you never had love
And you want me to go without?
Well it's...

Too late
Tonight
To drag the past out into the light

We're one, but we're not the same
We get to
Carry each other
Carry each other
One...

Have you come here for forgiveness?
Have you come to raise the dead?
Have you come here to play Jesus
To the lepers in your head?

Did I ask too much?
More than a lot
You gave me nothing
Now it's all I got

We're one
But we're not the same
Will we
Hurt each other
Then we do it again

You say
Love is a temple
Love a higher law
Love is a temple
Love the higher law

You ask me to enter
But then you make me crawl
And I can't be holding on
To what you got
When all you got is hurt

One love
One blood
One life
You got to do what you should

One life
With each other
Sisters
Brothers

One life
But we're not the same
We get to
Carry each other
Carry each other

One... life

One

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=lWdG8NoFXY0

[Synchronicity]

Isn't it interesting and lovely how we each get messages different ways? Some see, some hear, some hear on the radio, some just know, some feel, some feel touch, some smell, some combinations of the above. I am always fascinated when people get song messages! And the song was appropriate indeed!

[greybeard]

I just reversed the letters on the surname and then put, has got it back to front, --it was tongue in cheek--not name calling really.
Im sorry if that is found to be offensive.

Chris

Edited to remove reference to a persons statement.

[eaglespirit]

Well...I don't post much here or there anymore.
I have said it all in some way, shape or form here on this forum through the years, i-m-h-opinions!

Simply get as many of Your "Forgive Me, I'm Sorry, Thank You, I Love You's" taken care of in this life,
here and now,
and when You pass-on know now that You Will have the Purest Love in Your Heart and Head for Home...
YOU Are the Higher Pilot!