+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 11 FirstFirst 1 4 11 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 219

Thread: Meditation, and any work with Chi or Prana may invite possession by Jinn

  1. Link to Post #61
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    4th June 2013
    Posts
    1,549
    Thanks
    6,401
    Thanked 7,180 times in 1,448 posts

    Default Re: Meditation, and any work with Chi or Prana may invite possession by Jinn

    I am sure everyone here knows everything, but somehow I feel the need ( also ) to clarify a few terms ( which should have been the first thing to do in a thread such as this one ), for ( at least ) ease of communication:

    ~~~

    Chi or Qi:

    Qi, Wade-Giles romanization ch’i (Chinese: “breath,” or “vital energies”), in Chinese philosophy, the ethereal psycho-physical energies of which everything is composed. Early Daoist philosophers and alchemists regarded qi as a vital force inhering in the breath and bodily fluids and developed techniques to alter and control the movement of Qi within the body; their aim was to achieve physical longevity and spiritual power.

    Neo-Confucian philosophers of the Song dynasty (960–1279 ce) regarded qi as emanating from the Great Ultimate (taiji) by way of li, the dynamic ordering pattern of the world. This tradition, whose ideas predominate in traditional Chinese thought, held that qi is manifest through yang (active) and yin (passive) modes as the Five Phases (wuxing; wood, metal, earth, water, and fire), which in turn are the basic processes defining the cosmos.

    http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/109995/qi

    In traditional Chinese culture, qi (also chi or ch'i) is an active principle forming part of any living thing. Qi is frequently translated as "natural energy", "life force", or "energy flow". Qi is the central underlying principle in traditional Chinese medicine and martial arts. The literal translation of "qi" is "breath", "air", or "gas".

    Concepts similar to qi can be found in many cultures, for example, prana and cit in Hindu religion, mana in Hawaiian culture, lüng in Tibetan Buddhism, ruah in Hebrew culture, and Vital energy in Western philosophy. Some elements of qi can be understood in the term energy when used by writers and practitioners of various esoteric forms of spirituality and alternative medicine.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi

    ~~~

    Prana (प्राण, prāṇa) is the Sanskrit word for "life force"; in yoga, Oriental medicine, and martial arts, the term refers to a cosmic energy believed to come from the sun and connecting the elements of the universe. The universal principle of energy or force, responsible for the body's life, heat and maintenance, prana is the sum total of all energy that is manifest in the universe. This life energy, prana (प्राण) has been vividly invoked and described in Vedas. In Ayurveda, tantra and Tibetan medicine "praṇā vāyu" is the basic vāyu (wind, air) from which all the other vāyus arise.

    It is analogous to qi.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prana

    ~~~

    Orgone

    Orgone energy is a hypothetical universal life force originally proposed in the 1930s by Wilhelm Reich. In its final conception, developed by Reich's student Charles Kelly after Reich's death, Orgone was conceived as the anti-entropic principle of the universe, a creative substratum in all of nature comparable to Mesmer's animal magnetism, the Odic force of Carl Reichenbach and Henri Bergson's élan vital.[4] Orgone was seen as a massless, omnipresent substance, similar to luminiferous aether, but more closely associated with living energy than inert matter. It could coalesce to create organization on all scales, from the smallest microscopic units—called bions in orgone theory—to macroscopic structures like organisms, clouds, or even galaxies.
    Reich's theories held that deficits or constrictions in bodily orgone were at the root of many diseases—including cancer—much as deficits or constrictions in the libido could produce neuroses in Freudian theory. He created the Orgone Institute to pursue research into orgone energy after he immigrated to the US, and used it to publish literature and distribute material relating to the topic for more than a decade.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgone

    ~~~

    Meditation

    The term meditation refers to a broad variety of practices (much like the term sports) that includes techniques designed to promote relaxation, build internal energy or life force (qi, ki, prana, etc.) and develop compassion, love, patience, generosity and forgiveness. A particularly ambitious form of meditation aims at effortlessly sustained single-pointed concentration single-pointed analysis, meant to enable its practitioner to enjoy an indestructible sense of well-being while engaging in any life activity.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditation

    ~~~

    The jinn (also djinn or genies, Arabic: الجن‎ al-jinn, singular الجني al-jinnī) are spiritual creatures in Islam and Arabic folklore. They are mentioned in the Qur'an and other Islamic texts and inhabit an unseen world in dimensions beyond the visible universe of humans. Together, the jinn, humans and angels make up the three sapient creations of God.

    The Qur'an mentions that the jinn are made of a smokeless and "scorching fire", but are also physical in nature, being able to interact physically with people and objects and likewise be acted upon. Like human beings, the jinn can also be good, evil, or neutrally benevolent and hence have free will like humans and unlike angels. The jinn are mentioned frequently in the Qurʾan, and the 72nd sura is titled Sūrat al-Jinn.

    Jinn is a noun of the collective number in Arabic literally meaning "hidden from sight", and it derives from the Arabic root j-n-n (pronounced: jann/ junn جَنّ / جُنّ) meaning "to hide" or "be hidden". Other words derived from this root are majnūn 'mad' (literally, 'one whose intellect is hidden'), junūn 'madness', and janīn 'embryo, fetus' ('hidden inside the womb').

    The word genie in English is derived from Latin genius, meant a sort of tutelary or guardian spirit thought to be assigned to each person at their birth. English borrowed the French descendant of this word, génie; its earliest written attestation in English, in 1655, is a plural spelled "genyes." The French translators of The Book of One Thousand and One Nights used génie as a translation of jinnī because it was similar to the Arabic word in sound and in meaning. This use was also adopted in English and has since become dominant.

    In Arabic, the word jinn is in the collective number, translated in English as plural (e.g., "several genies"); jinnī is in the singulative number, used to refer to one individual, which is translated by the singular in English (e.g., "one genie"). Therefore, the word jinn in English writing is treated as a plural.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinn

    ~~~

    I am wondering if I should also clarify what 'possession' means...

    ~~~

    On a forum such as this one ( which I also happen to love for some strange reasons ), where everyone expects to find reliable and somewhat useful information, I think this thread fails to deliver.

    Peace.
    Last edited by chocolate; 16th March 2014 at 08:53.

  2. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to chocolate For This Post:

    Dawn (27th March 2014), Libico (16th March 2014), Realeyes (16th March 2014), RunningDeer (16th March 2014), Shezbeth (18th March 2014), Wind (16th March 2014)

  3. Link to Post #62
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    4th June 2013
    Posts
    1,549
    Thanks
    6,401
    Thanked 7,180 times in 1,448 posts

    Default Re: Meditation, and any work with Chi or Prana may invite possession by Jinn

    DANGERS of CHI:
    Jinn Possession in some Qi Gong (Chi Kung), Tai Chi, Martial Arts and Meditation Practices

    "My Story"
    An experience of Jinn Possession

    It is my belief that those reading My Story will fall into one of the following camps:
    (i) The reader will be greatly interested by the information either for personal reasons or mere curiosity

    (ii) The reader will be experiencing a very similar problem themselves with no one to turn to

    (iii) The reader will think I am a religious nut trying to propagate his ideology or is psychologically impaired in some manner

    I can assure you the latter is definitely not the case, I am simply describing what happened to me and my experiences with no alteria intention other than to publicize the dangers of the esoteric internal arts. All the facts you are about to read are completely authentic.

    My History of Martial Arts

    I began learning martial arts over a decade ago, I was always very keen and took great interest not only in the physical sciences of the art but also the spiritual aspects. I studied many systems during this time including both Japanese and Chinese systems (both northern and southern systems as well as internal and external systems). All my instructors were of the highest calibre, including a Shaolin Monk from China, Grand Masters and national champions (and if I was to provide you with their names I don’t think anyone would dispute their skill and genuine martial arts lineage)

    It was upon learning the internal system known as the Five Animal system of Spontaneous Chi Kung (Wu Qin Xi) which is an internal system which involved involuntary movements following the discharge of energy into the practitioner that my insight into the world of Martial Arts was to take a turn for the worse. Never before had I learnt a system which resulted in induced trance like and altered states of consciousness which ostensibly improved health and martial arts prowess. I soon began channeling the energy (Chi) and creating a mini mirco-cosmic orbits around myself. In addition my instructor would adeptly summon the energy (Chi) and transmit and project it into his students with stunning transitory results of improved health and increased physical strength. As the years passed on and I earned my instructors trust as I passed through all the Five Animal stages, he would boast that I was becoming a very powerful student and that soon I would soon be able to heal people myself, this made me even more eager to master this science. The principal of using martial arts as a fighting art was always sound, but using it for the betterment of others was an even greater incentive to learn, this was by no means a contradication but merely the flip side of the ability to kill and heal. And indeed I was aware of the body of scientific evidence which supported this claim. See Five Animal Frolics.

    Beginning Symptoms

    During this time I started to experience unusual sensations. This began with paralysis between the state of wakefulness and sleep ( --> there is quite simple explanation for this which is also very down to earth too. note by choc. ) as if something was constricting me just as I woke up in the morning, to feelings of vapours of energy around myself, particularly at night when my body was arrest and in a state of repose at night during sleep. Furthermore other students of this system also experienced the similar things but my instructor always eloquently countered any assertions of the supernatural by saying the Chi was simply opening up dormant chambers of the body & brain and that such feeling were completely natural. The instructor went as far as saying had we been practising such systems a century ago we would likely be convicted of practising magic & witchcraft, and that is only lately (i.e.19th century) that chi has been examined and studied scientifically, infact some ignorant Chinese & even non-Chinese scientists have suggested that it is no more than bio-electromagnetic energy (see Phd thesis "Qi & Biolectromagnetic Energy" York University). Certainly I was aware of the body of scientific evidence purporting the health benefits of Qigong & Chi (see The Qigong Institute). I thus as a gullible young student continued with my study of this system determined to master it always mentally finding an excuse to explain away these symptoms.

    It was upon doing some prelimary research on the subject of Sleep paralysis which consists of a period of inability to perform voluntary movements either at sleep onset (called hypnogogic or predormital form) or upon awakening (called hypnopompic or postdormital form) that I began to discover that this was often associated with withcraft and magic throughout history, where the term the old Hag was frequently used and is still used to describe a demon, ghost, etc. that sits upon their victim's chest, causing paralysis and sometimes making it hard to breathe. I decided to investigate further and read a book bought by my brother titled "The Exorcist Tradition in Islam" By Dr. Bilal Philips University of Wales. In it the author describes these symptoms of sleep paralysis as the beginning signs of demonic/jinn possession. However still not adequately convinced of any sinister goings on I decided to continue my interests in the martial arts.

    Visit by Abbot & Shaolin Monk and the Statue of Buddha

    I also observed the statue of Buddha we had in our temple would become of more central importance in our classes. Our instructor (Sifu) would channel his energy into the enormous statue that occupied a large corner of the hall. The significance of the Buddha was to become further exemplified following a visit by the Abbot Shi Yon Xian into our temple, where upon he performed a ceremony which involved the statue of Buddha, he channeled an enormous amount of Chi into the Buddha (at which point many Sifus that were present in the audience reported feeling the powerful energy of the Abbot pass into the Buddha, some even reported seeing bright lights, and indeed this energy was to remain in the despicable idol. He was accompanied by a Shaolin Monk that our Sifu instructor had invited to teach, and much of the world media was present. The Abbot of the Shaolin Temple, aided by Shaolin Warrior Monk Shi Yan Tzi after blessing the Temple School's Buddha then consecrated the building as a branch of Shaolin Temple.

    During this visit afer the ceremony, there was an amazing display of Wushu martial arts by the Shaolin monk, this involved a Shaolin form and four extraordinary displays of Chi Kung, the first being the Shaolin Monk taking powerful Gow Choi (hammer fist technique) strike by an experienced martial artist in the solar plexus with no noticeable side effects, followed by a similar strike this time with the aid of a tree trunk and four students ramming it into the stomach of the Monk. In the third display Monk Shi Yan Tzi took two volunteers from the audience and made them stripe off their shirts. He then positioned them in a sort of a bowing position, this he said was for their own safety. The Monk then summoned up his chi power. This took two or three minutes. Standing a good ten feet from the two volunteers, he reached out hes hand and made a slow downward clawing motion. When the volunteers turned around, each had clearly visible red claw marks down his back. A murmur of surprise went around the room and the Chinese camera crew moved in to take close-up shots o the phenomenon. The curious bowing posture the two volunteers took up was so that the Chi power projected by Monk Shi Yan Tzi wouldn't strike the volunteers square on. If it had, it would almost certainly have injured them. I was later to discover that Shaolin Monks don't normally perform this act of Red Sand Palm technique in public, the Abbot later chastised the younger Monk for performing this as the powerful Chi could have been captured by someone in the audience with ill intent. Even after this remarkable display of inner power, Monk Shi Yan Tzi's demonstartion wasnt over yet. Choosing from a pile of bricks, the Monk built a brigde with three bricks that he could use as a pillow. He then went through a short series of excercises to focus his Chi power in his head region. He laid his head down on his brick pillow and placed another column of three bricks on top of his head. He then asked our Sifu to brick another brick down as hard as he could onto the brick column. Upon doing this incredibly all three bricks on top of the monks head and the brick beneath forming the span of the bridge shattered. To tumutuous applause, the Monk bounced to his feet, smiling and waving and completely unharmed by the massive blow delivered. It was a spectaculor display of the power of Chi witnissed first hand by me and many others including the world media. In awe of Monk Shi Yan Tzi's skill I was to remain with him for several years.

    When the Abbot went back to China I observed several notable changes in our temple, Sifu was now no longer summing chi his normal way but rather now going up to the Buddha to attract/summon Chi (this was of coarse because the Abbot had passed his very powerful Chi into it) and students too were approaching the Buddha to get charged up (this was a term used to denote the initialization into the Five Animal state). I too observed when in the Gong state (Five Animal Frolics) would some how subconsciously be me drawn unexplainably to the Buddha for no discernable reason. The statue of Buddha was suddenly becoming the nexus of the Temple School and the roots of idolatry were taking fold. (see Buddhism: An Idolatrous Religion)

    [...]

    Cases of Possession

    I have since seen many cases of possession, possession involving jinns falling in love with girls, possession involving acts of magic performed on individuals, possession whereby jinns harass or haunt individuals/buildings etc. But certainly my case was unlike most of the others the Sheikh was dealing with because I had directly invoked these creatures and inadvertently sought their assistance via (i)My instructor channeling the energy into me (ii)Capturing chi from outside my body (iii) Going into deep meditative trances allowing the chi to take control of my body like I was in an intoxicated state taking on the characteristics of animals see Wu Qin Xi five animal frolics (iv) Through various chants and (v) Performance of certain forms/kata with acts of magic embedded with in without even knowing it. What is also most disturbing is that the practice of my art involved the accumulation of these jinns inside me or as my instructor would say the cultivation of chi which could take many years to achieve, which is why they often say that to practice the external arts could take a few years but to practise the internal art a decade i.e. the more chi I had the more adept at the internal arts I became. Most instances of possession only involve a hand full of jinns?, however internal arts by definition require the individual to store up or hoard their chi. That is why practising such systems can be so fatal to the practitioner and act of exorcism can be considerably longer than otherwise.

    http://www.thejinn.net/chi_jinn_my_story.htm

    This is one of the initial articles mentioned in the OP.

    Not only it is full of spelling mistakes and some bizzare allegations and references, but it makes one believe much more unbelievable 'truths' than one's natural common sense normally would.

    And a small note from me personally, no offence to anyone or anything whatsoever.

    It seems as quite the escapism for someone to believe in jinn possession, instead of making sure one gets to step soundly on the Earth and walk properly.
    (see RunningDeer's post too https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post809798)

    ~~~

    Edited to add:

    I know for a fact many of us, writing on the forum, have gone through some hard time of suffering personal attacks or interference in one way or another. I myself am still under that kind of influence, or was not very long ago.
    But instead of looking everywhere else ( with or without any related threads on any forum ) for the answers, I feel we need to look a bit more closely at what is happening in our own personal lives.

    Some 'things' or phenomena, rather more complex in nature than any religious or scientific teaching can explain at present, will become more clear further down the line.
    That is why we are still here.
    Last edited by chocolate; 16th March 2014 at 11:10.

  4. The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to chocolate For This Post:

    Christine (16th March 2014), Dawn (27th March 2014), Delight (17th March 2014), DNA (18th April 2014), Gardener (16th March 2014), greybeard (16th March 2014), Libico (16th March 2014), NancyV (27th March 2014), panopticon (16th March 2014), Realeyes (16th March 2014), RunningDeer (16th March 2014), Shezbeth (18th March 2014), TraineeHuman (17th March 2014), Wind (16th March 2014)

  5. Link to Post #63
    Australia Avalon Member panopticon's Avatar
    Join Date
    6th February 2011
    Posts
    2,591
    Thanks
    8,262
    Thanked 8,009 times in 2,305 posts

    Default Re: Meditation, and any work with Chi or Prana may invite possession by Jinn

    For those who may be interested the reference in the 'My Story' passage to a text called 'Buddhism: An Idolatrous Religion'. It can be found in the writings of Adnan Oktar (pseudonym Harun Yahya). The text is full of errors on basic Buddhist philosophy and full of quotes from the Koran.

    It's available here if anyone's interested:
    http://www.harunyahya.com/en/Books/7...m/chapter/1688

    Hope this was useful to someone.

    -- Pan
    "What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence.
    The only consequence is what we do."

  6. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to panopticon For This Post:

    chocolate (16th March 2014), Christine (16th March 2014), Dawn (27th March 2014), Delight (17th March 2014), RunningDeer (16th March 2014)

  7. Link to Post #64
    Australia Avalon Member panopticon's Avatar
    Join Date
    6th February 2011
    Posts
    2,591
    Thanks
    8,262
    Thanked 8,009 times in 2,305 posts

    Default Re: Meditation, and any work with Chi or Prana may invite possession by Jinn

    Quote Posted by chocolate (here)
    On a forum such as this one (which I also happen to love for some strange reasons ), where everyone expects to find reliable and somewhat useful information, I think this thread fails to deliver.
    Why?

    -- Pan
    "What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence.
    The only consequence is what we do."

  8. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to panopticon For This Post:

    chocolate (16th March 2014), Dawn (27th March 2014), RunningDeer (16th March 2014), Shezbeth (18th March 2014)

  9. Link to Post #65
    Avalon Member TraineeHuman's Avatar
    Join Date
    22nd March 2010
    Posts
    1,926
    Thanks
    4,527
    Thanked 11,927 times in 1,827 posts

    Default Re: Meditation, and any work with Chi or Prana may invite possession by Jinn

    Quote Posted by RunningDeer (here)
    To post or not to post? Shiver. ..
    RunningDeer: No, I don’t have hitch hikers or foreigners living inside.

    Other(s): Yes, yes, you do.

    RunningDeer: No, no, I don’t have hitch hikers or foreigners living inside.

    Other (s): Yes, you do, “Lady in Denial”.

    RunningDeer: No denial, I’m my own worst critic. I hunt and tear down whatever and whenever needs realignment. I’d be embarrassed to share how much time I spend at this game of hide and seek out, and dig deep for the last 64 years. I’m here to say, I gots no hitch hikers nor foreigners in my backpack...unless you count a couple of ex-husbands along the way. Oh, wait make that three, a boyfriend that definitely had frienies or fiends that travelled within. Phew, I was a quick study and I bolted from that one.

    One whispers to the other: Yeah, denial....

    ... She heads back to her small, small world.....
    Paula, the main thing I get from your post is that you're being ruthless about honesty -- about looking at the truth about who you are. And feeling and ferreting out everything/one that you're not. That's great to hear. That's what everyone should be doing, in a truly sane society. Everyone should continually be spending hours, if necessary, intensely asking themselves: "What is the truth about me?" Surely, to do anything less is a great foolishness -- to be, well, honest. Such a great love of honesty, such a ruthless, seemingly obsessive dedication to finding out the truth as far as you can, particularly about you -- what's "good" and what's "bad", what's weak or strong -- it's just about all you need, all anyone needs. That's the still point in the confusion and chaos of this insane and deceptive world. It's such a life saver. Yes, liberation does very much involve not clinging -- with the exception of clinging to honesty, and letting it shape you.

    You talk of your "small, small world", but such a dedication to Truth will surely take you very far. Maybe you don't feel you have experience of such things (yet), but imagine, if you like, a world where there's only Truth and Consciousness of Truth. I promise you such a world certainly, really exists. It's very close to Source, to the ultimate. That world is hardly boring. in fact, no such thing as "boring" exists there, or makes any sense there. I believe some of the lower levels of this world include, for instance, the seeds of all new life, of all new ideas, all inspirations, and so on. So it ain't boring. It's dynamic, it's a party. And I've no doubt your dedication to Truth will somehow eventually get you there, Paula. Please don't change a thing -- well, except to keep making yourself truer and freer.

    I'd say it doesn't really matter so much whether you've gotten rid of or discovered all your (potential) Hitchhikers or whatever. It's the process that counts. Whatever needs to be revealed further will come to light when the time is right. Didn't mean to make that rhyme. Must be one of my little poetry-writing or songwriting identities putting in its two cents.

    Not a whole lot more is needed in addition to the practice of such honesty. I guess maybe also, if possible, just beautifully flowing in, or with, your consciousness, more and more and more. That'll come anyway if it's not there yet, because at some point Truth and Consciousness become the same, they become one. All conceptual distinctions ultimately collapse and dissolve at that point. And they get replaced by the underlying sameness, which, I have to say, is just beautiful beyond belief. -- And I absolutely, definitely did not get any of that from some Djinn or guide etc.

    And of course, Truth is such a perfect antidote to fear, and to false evidence appearing real.

  10. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to TraineeHuman For This Post:

    chocolate (16th March 2014), Dawn (27th March 2014), Delight (16th March 2014), Gardener (16th March 2014), Ikarusion (3rd February 2015), Libico (16th March 2014), panopticon (16th March 2014), Realeyes (16th March 2014), RunningDeer (16th March 2014), Synchronicity (16th March 2014), Wind (16th March 2014)

  11. Link to Post #66
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    4th June 2013
    Posts
    1,549
    Thanks
    6,401
    Thanked 7,180 times in 1,448 posts

    Default Re: Meditation, and any work with Chi or Prana may invite possession by Jinn

    Quote Posted by panopticon (here)
    Quote Posted by chocolate (here)
    On a forum such as this one (which I also happen to love for some strange reasons ), where everyone expects to find reliable and somewhat useful information, I think this thread fails to deliver.
    Why?

    -- Pan
    Not so long ago.

    But it changed for the better, I think.

    Regarding (Paula) RunninDeer and her post ( Hi !), I think it was the best I had read from the point of view of sanity around here. ( She also managed to put humor in it all, contrary to my sometimes very matter-of-fact statements )

    I myself can believe in everything and everyone, being an air creature and so on, but always up to a point. That is why when I get to read some (no-)sense statements in titles of threads, all my stable and very balanced personality gets in a warrior mode. Sorry Dawn, I know you mean well, and you are also searching, but perhaps do that first (the searching part) and bring it on here when you know it has gone through some serious ... what the English for that... discernment, I think. The article I quoted is just full of nonsense. And I am not ever a true religious/spiritual/enlightened/etc. scholar, neither is my English all that good.

    ~~~

    I guess that is the extend I needed to vent off on this subject.

    I apologize if I offended anyone, but sometimes ... things...happen.
    And also thanks for the level of common sense, I did notice it, too.

    Peace!
    Last edited by chocolate; 16th March 2014 at 13:25.

  12. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to chocolate For This Post:

    Dawn (27th March 2014), panopticon (16th March 2014), Realeyes (16th March 2014), RunningDeer (16th March 2014), Wind (16th March 2014)

  13. Link to Post #67
    Australia Avalon Member panopticon's Avatar
    Join Date
    6th February 2011
    Posts
    2,591
    Thanks
    8,262
    Thanked 8,009 times in 2,305 posts

    Default Re: Meditation, and any work with Chi or Prana may invite possession by Jinn

    I'm off ta bed but I'd like to thank everyone for providing me with the motivation to have a look into the Islamic Jinn tradition.

    It's really very interesting and I found some texts that give what seems to be quite good definitions of where the various sorts of Jinn (yeah, there's more than one type) can be found and to some extent what they are. I never knew that the tradition is that Iblees (Shaytaan/Satan) was a Jinn and that was why he was able to ignore Allah's will and not kneel like all the Angels did. Fascinating.

    Any ways one book I came across was 'The Jinn And Human Sickness' available for free download at archive.org:
    https://archive.org/details/TheJinnAndHumanSickness

    I'm off to look into the dark places. Night all.

    -- Pan
    "What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence.
    The only consequence is what we do."

  14. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to panopticon For This Post:

    chocolate (16th March 2014), Dawn (27th March 2014), Hervé (16th March 2014), Realeyes (16th March 2014), RunningDeer (16th March 2014), spiritwind (17th March 2014)

  15. Link to Post #68
    United States Avalon Member RunningDeer's Avatar
    Join Date
    6th February 2012
    Location
    Forest Dweller
    Language
    English
    Age
    75
    Posts
    19,635
    Thanks
    135,609
    Thanked 180,980 times in 19,444 posts

    Default Re: Meditation, and any work with Chi or Prana may invite possession by Jinn

    Quote Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
    Quote Posted by RunningDeer (here)
    To post or not to post? Shiver. ..
    RunningDeer: No, I don’t have hitch hikers or foreigners living inside.

    Other(s): Yes, yes, you do.

    RunningDeer: No, no, I don’t have hitch hikers or foreigners living inside.

    Other (s): Yes, you do, “Lady in Denial”.

    RunningDeer: No denial, I’m my own worst critic. I hunt and tear down whatever and whenever needs realignment. I’d be embarrassed to share how much time I spend at this game of hide and seek out, and dig deep for the last 64 years. I’m here to say, I gots no hitch hikers nor foreigners in my backpack...unless you count a couple of ex-husbands along the way. Oh, wait make that three, a boyfriend that definitely had frienies or fiends that travelled within. Phew, I was a quick study and I bolted from that one.

    One whispers to the other: Yeah, denial....

    ... She heads back to her small, small world.....
    Paula, the main thing I get from your post is that you're being ruthless about honesty -- about looking at the truth about who you are. And feeling and ferreting out everything/one that you're not. That's great to hear. That's what everyone should be doing, in a truly sane society. Everyone should continually be spending hours, if necessary, intensely asking themselves: "What is the truth about me?" Surely, to do anything less is a great foolishness -- to be, well, honest. Such a great love of honesty, such a ruthless, seemingly obsessive dedication to finding out the truth as far as you can, particularly about you -- what's "good" and what's "bad", what's weak or strong -- it's just about all you need, all anyone needs. That's the still point in the confusion and chaos of this insane and deceptive world. It's such a life saver. Yes, liberation does very much involve not clinging -- with the exception of clinging to honesty, and letting it shape you.

    You talk of your "small, small world", but such a dedication to Truth will surely take you very far. Maybe you don't feel you have experience of such things (yet), but imagine, if you like, a world where there's only Truth and Consciousness of Truth. I promise you such a world certainly, really exists. It's very close to Source, to the ultimate. That world is hardly boring. in fact, no such thing as "boring" exists there, or makes any sense there. I believe some of the lower levels of this world include, for instance, the seeds of all new life, of all new ideas, all inspirations, and so on. So it ain't boring. It's dynamic, it's a party. And I've no doubt your dedication to Truth will somehow eventually get you there, Paula. Please don't change a thing -- well, except to keep making yourself truer and freer.

    I'd say it doesn't really matter so much whether you've gotten rid of or discovered all your (potential) Hitchhikers or whatever. It's the process that counts. Whatever needs to be revealed further will come to light when the time is right. Didn't mean to make that rhyme. Must be one of my little poetry-writing or songwriting identities putting in its two cents.

    Not a whole lot more is needed in addition to the practice of such honesty. I guess maybe also, if possible, just beautifully flowing in, or with, your consciousness, more and more and more. That'll come anyway if it's not there yet, because at some point Truth and Consciousness become the same, they become one. All conceptual distinctions ultimately collapse and dissolve at that point. And they get replaced by the underlying sameness, which, I have to say, is just beautiful beyond belief. -- And I absolutely, definitely did not get any of that from some Djinn or guide etc.

    And of course, Truth is such a perfect antidote to fear, and to false evidence appearing real.
    Powerful post, TraineeHuman. Thank you.

    Small, small world is a relative space depending on which nano second you catch me in. And too...not because I’ve got nano-bots, ants, or elves controlling me from within.

    Small, small world by comparison to others’ OBE, ET’s adventures, and the like. (Though, I’ve racked up some frequent flyers miles of my own.)

    Small, small world based on the more I learn, the less I know. “Who cares?” I remind myself. Journey onward. And don’t forget to play.

    The most important tool, and I’ve known this from a young age, has been to ‘feel the fear and do it anyway’. It opened doors to powerful places from the heart and beyond to experience the larger. I’ve participated in two outward bound experiences, walked on fire, and monthly weekend group encounters over a course of a year and a half, to name a few...all to feel the fear and do it anyway. See through the illusion of straight-jacket restriction and control.

    I’ve learned it’s not about the far and exotic journeys, but it’s those nano seconds that hold me captive and the recognition to deal with them head on, here and now. So my promise is to leap. Most often I do. I land square in the small, (but shhhhh), the kicker is that it’s really, really big both inside and out.

    RunningDeer <3

  16. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to RunningDeer For This Post:

    chocolate (16th March 2014), Dawn (27th March 2014), Delight (16th March 2014), Gardener (16th March 2014), greybeard (16th March 2014), Libico (16th March 2014), Realeyes (16th March 2014), Synchronicity (16th March 2014), TraineeHuman (17th March 2014)

  17. Link to Post #69
    United States Avalon Member RunningDeer's Avatar
    Join Date
    6th February 2012
    Location
    Forest Dweller
    Language
    English
    Age
    75
    Posts
    19,635
    Thanks
    135,609
    Thanked 180,980 times in 19,444 posts

    Default Re: Meditation, and any work with Chi or Prana may invite possession by Jinn

    Thoughts on Jinn...

    Yes, based on family gatherings, and how as soon as particular individual arrives the atmosphere goes from light to shades of gray to dark at warp speed. You can almost smell the change. Toss in the alcohol, that’s when my no-clock-world lifestyle goes into loud tick-tock, drip-drip-drip torture.

    Okay, that may be a tad over stated. But, yes, at times I do ‘see’ in some folks an energetic Jinn-blob that wants to gobble up the unaware that surrounds.

    To clarify, for me, sweeping statements are like nails across a chalkboard: 99+% of all the people I've ever met have 'foreigners' living inside them” & “plus even more so by several Hitchhikers lurking much deeper within”.

    Why? Because we’re all on our custom-made paths. Too, our developing 5D extra-senses of what we experience are perceived differently by each of us. I see what I see, but how can you know? I see red, but you call it blue. How can we know?

    Yes, through communication and sharing, but for me, it seems these day, language is more limiting than not. One possibility is that now more than ever, we are experiencing on multi-levels. And if someone comes along and happens to rest on a level that’s not in alignment with the intent it was shared...it goes splat.

    In closing, Dawn, TraineeHuman and anyone else, I may have over reacted and taken a few phrases out of context from some powerful posts. So in case it's needed, here's to hugs all around and a clean slate.

    Hummm…this was suppose to be a post about "Thoughts on Jinn".

    RunningDeer <3

  18. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to RunningDeer For This Post:

    chocolate (16th March 2014), Dawn (27th March 2014), Finefeather (18th March 2014), greybeard (16th March 2014), Hervé (16th March 2014), Realeyes (16th March 2014), Synchronicity (17th March 2014), Wind (16th March 2014)

  19. Link to Post #70
    Avalon Member
    Join Date
    13th May 2011
    Posts
    276
    Thanks
    449
    Thanked 788 times in 222 posts

    Default Re: Meditation, and any work with Chi or Prana may invite possession by Jinn

    As I understand it, if you are inhabited by a djinn, your capacity for feeling human emotion dimishes. This makes ideas of utilising love as a positive force quite acadenic.

    The 'driving out ' of such guests that diminish the host has to be the key point.

    How to make ourselves an undesirable environment for parasites. Fasting is something that makes them bored with us, for example.

  20. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to minkton For This Post:

    chocolate (18th March 2014), Dawn (27th March 2014), RunningDeer (16th March 2014)

  21. Link to Post #71
    Netherlands Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    24th June 2010
    Location
    3d Dimesion and beyond. 52,47 N 7 E
    Age
    54
    Posts
    559
    Thanks
    642
    Thanked 2,642 times in 506 posts

    Default Re: Meditation, and any work with Chi or Prana may invite possession by Jinn

    Quote Posted by chocolate (here)
    I am sure everyone here knows everything, but somehow I feel the need ( also ) to clarify a few terms ( which should have been the first thing to do in a thread such as this one ), for ( at least ) ease of communication:

    ~~~

    Chi or Qi:

    Qi, Wade-Giles romanization ch’i (Chinese: “breath,” or “vital energies”), in Chinese philosophy, the ethereal psycho-physical energies of which everything is composed. Early Daoist philosophers and alchemists regarded qi as a vital force inhering in the breath and bodily fluids and developed techniques to alter and control the movement of Qi within the body; their aim was to achieve physical longevity and spiritual power.

    Neo-Confucian philosophers of the Song dynasty (960–1279 ce) regarded qi as emanating from the Great Ultimate (taiji) by way of li, the dynamic ordering pattern of the world. This tradition, whose ideas predominate in traditional Chinese thought, held that qi is manifest through yang (active) and yin (passive) modes as the Five Phases (wuxing; wood, metal, earth, water, and fire), which in turn are the basic processes defining the cosmos.

    http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/109995/qi

    In traditional Chinese culture, qi (also chi or ch'i) is an active principle forming part of any living thing. Qi is frequently translated as "natural energy", "life force", or "energy flow". Qi is the central underlying principle in traditional Chinese medicine and martial arts. The literal translation of "qi" is "breath", "air", or "gas".

    Concepts similar to qi can be found in many cultures, for example, prana and cit in Hindu religion, mana in Hawaiian culture, lüng in Tibetan Buddhism, ruah in Hebrew culture, and Vital energy in Western philosophy. Some elements of qi can be understood in the term energy when used by writers and practitioners of various esoteric forms of spirituality and alternative medicine.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi

    Peace.
    In my studies if chinese medicine Qi is translated as "basic stuff" Like a building block. In my view it is hyped up to mean more than it actualy is. The character for Qi depicts the steam comming of boiling rice. However Qi is the pot the rice is boiling in, it is the rice, the water and the steam. Even the fire that burns to make the water boil. All in different states of aggregation. The 5 phases are merely a way to catagorise chi in different manifestations.

    I feel that chi is the most responsive of the 5 basic substances. Thats why it is the thing that you would go to as a first resort for manipulating/change your energy flow. The other 4 basic substances will follow more slowly to the changes in your chi.

    I think that Jinn from this idea will try to manipulate your chi as it is the most responsive, but to say that doing chi or energy work invites them to play with you is the same that walking down the streats with a dollar in your pocket will attract muggers.
    You could be mugged. You could also just have a pleasant stroll and buy a cup of coffe at that coffeestand in the park.

    With Love
    Eelco

  22. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Catsquotl For This Post:

    Cara (21st March 2014), chocolate (18th March 2014), Dawn (27th March 2014), Delight (17th March 2014), Finefeather (18th March 2014), greybeard (17th March 2014), panopticon (17th March 2014), RunningDeer (17th March 2014), Shezbeth (18th March 2014), Synchronicity (17th March 2014), Wind (17th March 2014)

  23. Link to Post #72
    Avalon Member TraineeHuman's Avatar
    Join Date
    22nd March 2010
    Posts
    1,926
    Thanks
    4,527
    Thanked 11,927 times in 1,827 posts

    Default Re: Meditation, and any work with Chi or Prana may invite possession by Jinn

    chocolate, it's been my experience and understanding from a youngish age that trance is dangerous, and I believe it has no place in true spirituality. You can draw a distinction between "concentration meditation" and "awareness meditation". Although awareness meditation uses concentration, particularly in the beginner-like stages, at a certain point of intensity of concentration, too much concentration interferes with one's ability to be open enough to be fully aware of whatever may be. That, for me, is the exact point where it turns into trance. I've always liked Zen meditation because it's essentially (or mostly, or in its purest form) just the awareness style of meditation, "straight". I also always, always meditated with my eyes half-open (or even fully open) up until my late forties -- again, because I instinctively knew without doubt that any sort of trance was dangerous, at least potentially. It's also one reason why I've always been suspicious of the use of any sort of drugs or props -- even chanting. If you meditate with your eyes half-open and stay 100% alert, you'll be absorbed solely into your "own" greater and greater Self, and not in an egoic way either. Awareness means being there. It's just a matter of raising the "level" of "there" higher and higher and wider and wider.

    If I understand correctly, of course trance of any kind strongly invites certain kinds of very partial possession or worse, for reasons which a number of posters have already explained in considerable detail here. It's a big red flag that you wave in case they haven't noticed you've set aside your defences -- your natural protection. Why give up your deeper "I", ever? As we know, ultimately that is Source itself. And yet, as I understand it, trance is precisely such a giving up. Of course trance of any kind will at least open you to psychic parasites.

    Regarding transmission of chi, I do love to receive the essence behind the chi a true master of it is transmitting. I've learnt how to gobble up every last tidbit. If I'd been there, chocolate, when that Shaolin master was transmitting, they wouldn't need to put it into a statue, because I'd take it all, and not apologize. Be assured, I would have diverted it from the statue while he was transmitting, if he tried to put it into a statue while I was around. It's taken me a very long time indeed to master how to do that. But I'd have to admit that a considerable deal of my own liberation has come from absorbing every drop that great masters of enlightenment or of chi had in them to offer others. In a way it's quite embarrassing to admit that, because on this Forum and its predecessors I've always been so loud in saying: "Don't follow any teacher. Be your own light." OK, as far as great masters who transmit profound chi or whatever it is, I've been a hypocrite in not owning up to how much I'm indebted to the Light I received from such (male and female) masters.

    And again, at the risk of being very boringly repetitious, I'm absolutely shocked to hear that anyone believes any kind of spiritual practice that involves going into a trance of any kind is valid or good -- for reasons connected to what Dawn was trying to warn about in her OP. Always be here now. Don't be an airhead.
    Above all, always refuse to cut your life in two: nonduality/duality, matter/Spirit, etc
    A mind which is not crippled by memory has real freedom. ~ J. Krishnamurti
    (True, deep) stillness is the way.

  24. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to TraineeHuman For This Post:

    chocolate (18th March 2014), Dawn (27th March 2014), Hervé (18th March 2014), minkton (17th March 2014), RunningDeer (17th March 2014)

  25. Link to Post #73
    Avalon Member
    Join Date
    13th May 2011
    Posts
    276
    Thanks
    449
    Thanked 788 times in 222 posts

    Default Re: Meditation, and any work with Chi or Prana may invite possession by Jinn

    I saw in. Bill's thread about cancer the voodoo curse, that Dawn found a healer, who has made quite an impact.

    Let's hope it's truly significant and permanent.

  26. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to minkton For This Post:

    chocolate (18th March 2014), Dawn (27th March 2014)

  27. Link to Post #74
    Avalon Member Delight's Avatar
    Join Date
    12th January 2012
    Posts
    6,752
    Thanks
    9,456
    Thanked 45,427 times in 6,387 posts

    Default Re: Meditation, and any work with Chi or Prana may invite possession by Jinn

    Quote Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
    I'm absolutely shocked to hear that anyone believes any kind of spiritual practice that involves going into a trance of any kind is valid or good -- for reasons connected to what Dawn was trying to warn about in her OP. Always be here now. Don't be an airhead.
    I remember reading Andrew Weil years ago whose idea is seeking altered states of consciousness (ACS) is a natural impulse for humans. We can see that inclination when children twirl around until so dizzy they fall down happily. Birds eat berries that make them drunk. So there is a seeming natural inclination to be in an altered state that transcends just humans?

    Again Andrew Weil has proposed that we would do better with effects that are clear, not muddy and appropriate to feel well. So for example, one can achieve the "high" of alcohol (just a glass of wine in a happy setting) or the "low" of a sad deep drunk. The point is that one can expect some common elements about alcohol but each person is different. Some cannot tolerate ANY and some seem to tolerate mass quantities.

    Is it "wrong" to enter trance 100%? I think it is the setting, the person and the intention that determines the appropriate. Motivation is important and history, expectations and training.

    In mediation, one also has to look at the person doing meditation. I can't say I am sure but I suspect still that the negative AND positive effects of meditations and trance are self generated by our own conditions and we must respect that we have these preexisting states!!!

    On one level, it makes the same sense to say avoid all trance states (and they can happen when driving even) as it makes sense to avoid sleep where we lose consciousness? These are states of more and less conscious awareness that have brain EEG correlates....

    I think we SHOULD learn more about how this works !!

    One of the outcomes of this thread is that it stimulates me to look deeper. It is valuable to look at the adverse effects meditators and people entering altered states of consciousness may experience.

    I STILL feel that nothing is "out there" except mind itself with thought forms we take on and believe. Also we do have an energy system that can get out of balance. I may be mistaken in my understanding.

    Life events we experience as trauma can be terrible and these impressions hurt us. People take on ACS in the midst of unresolved trauma and imbalanced energy states and they have experiences that are not helpful.

    Look at the way we and those we know in "regular states" interpret and behave to imagine ACS experiences with the same "problems" underlying......

    I looked and found an excellent thesis with a wealth of information "Meditation-Related Psychosis from the Buddhist Perspective".

    Quote Effects of Meditation: Psychological Literature.

    While literature on beneficial effects of meditation involves much research data (Shapiro 1982; West, 1987), literature on adverse effects is largely anecdotal, and no one has factored out effects of other variables such as the aloneness, silence, and reduced food and sleep that often accompany intensive meditation. Spontaneous muscular-skeletal movement, proprioceptive sensations, and intense emotional states (known as “unstressing” in TM literature) often occur and can take extreme forms during extended meditation sessions. These may relate to release of past physiological and emotional stresses stored in the mind and body (Coleman, 1971). Severe anxiety, depression, depersonalization, derealization, panic, and emergence of overwhelming repressed material sometimes occur, especially in people with traumatic backgrounds and longstanding emotional problems (Carrington, 1977; Epstein & Lieff, 1986). Extreme dysfunction, such as psychosis, is rare, but does happen, especially during intensive meditation in people who have a history of psychosis (“A forum,” 1988; Kornfield, 1989; Walsh & Roche, 1979). A reoccurrence of psychosis may be part of practice because what one fears most tends to emerge in practice (Kornfield, 1989). Also, serious pathology may emerge when the will for practice is so strong that it overrides usual defense mechanisms (“A Forum,” 1988). This idea is supported by Glueck and Stroebel (1975), who assessed the effect of TM on psychiatric inpatients and found that psychotic episodes were precipitated in Dire ho, against instructions, meditated more than twice a day for longer periods than the usual 20 minutes. Also, Sangharak****a (1980) notes that a Burmese method of respiration-mindfulness led to “extreme nervous tension and a schizoid state” in a number of people and hospitalization for some (p. xv). (This method may resemble the Sunlun practice, which involves intense effort, heavy breathing, concentration on pain, and sitting motionless for 2-3 hours. See Kornfield (1977) for a description of this practice.)

    While extremely dysfunctional states are rare, ASC are common (Kornfield, 1979) and “primary process” thinking tends to increase in beginning phases of meditation (Brown & Engler, 1986; From, 1977). This cognitive mode involves more images, “drive” (sexual/aggressive) content, and preverbal and nonverbal processes than does “secondary process’ thinking, which is verbal and oriented to reality testing, goals, logic, and abstraction. Brown and Engler (1986) suggest that many Westerners may do a form of self-exploratory therapy when they become aware of the contents of their mind and consequently fail to develop the concentration and mindfulness necessary for formal meditation. Kornfield (1979) found chat many Westerners in. initial stages of intensive Vipassana meditation experienced unusual mental and physical phenomena, such as spontaneous movement, altered body-image perceptions, altered visual perceptions, powerful imagery, vivid dreams, intense feelings, and mood swings. These phenomena were uncommon in control subjects who received the instructions and teaching of the experimental group, but who meditated much less (1-2 hours/day vs. 12-15) and were not in a disciplined, silent retreat milieu. Concentration appeared to be a major factor in increasing the frequency and duration of these altered states.

    Kornfield (1979) notes that traditional Western psychology considers these phenomena pathological rather than normal responses to meditation in predominantly healthy individuals. Respect for such phenomena as spiritual experiences may be growing, however (Chandler, Holden, & Kolander, 1992). Sourcebooks, such as Bragdon’s (1988), and support networks, such as the Spiritual Emergence Network, have been developed to aid people in “spiritual emergence.” The Grofs (1986, 1990) and Lukoff (1985) highlight the need to differentiate pathology from spiritual experiences and crises that can be transformative. They offer schemata of differential diagnosis and propose treatment alternatives to medication when certain criteria are met, such as lack of organicity, adequate pre-episode functioning, and abilities to relate, cooperate, work intrapsychically, maintain physical health, and refrain from acting upon impulses. This spiritual emergence movement has impacted diagnostic criteria in the forthcoming DSM—IV, the main diagnostic manual used by mental health professionals (“Diagnosing,” 1992).

    Differentiation of spiritual and psychotic! psychosis proneness.

    If phenomena are similar in spiritual-mystical and psychotic states, what makes these states different and who is prone to psychosis? Chapman and Chapman (1980) take an empirical approach to these questions. They suggest that these experiences fall on a continuum as to degree of deviancy. Factors that make for less deviancy are: incomplete belief in the experience; presence of cultural support for the experience; brevity; facilitation by hypnogogic or hypnopompic states; the subject talking about past rather than present experience; other factors that make the experience seem closer to normal. They recognize that fairly well-functioning people can have occasional psychotic or psychotic-like experiences, so factors such as level of stress and functioning are also considered in assessing someone’s stability. As to the issue of proneness, Chapman, Chapman, and Raulin (1976, 1978) and Eckbad and Chapman (1983) developed paper-and-pencil tests to measure several variables that purportedly are precursors of schizophrenia such as magical ideation, anhedonia (defect in experience of pleasure) and perceptual aberration (distortion in perception of body and other objects). Research on these tests’ validity has mostly involved undergraduates (Lenzenweger & Loranger, 1989). L. Chapman (personal communication, August 13, 1993) believes that the Perceptual Aberration and Magical Ideation scales could be useful screening tests for meditators if they are answered in terms of non- meditative states of consciousness.

    A more theoretical approach has been taken by a number of authors who are familiar with Buddhism as well as psychodynamic, developmental, and transpersonal psychology. Wilber (1986) proposes a hierarchical “spectrum” model of development that involves “prepersonal,” “personal,” and “transpersonal” stages. These stages involve different kinds of personality organization and pathology. The prepersonal stages involve psychotic, borderline (between psychotic and neurotic), and neurotic organization and pathology. Wilber (1986) and Engler (1986; Nisker, 1988) suggest that “uncovering” therapy and meditation can be harmful to people with psychotic or borderline organization. The recommended intervention for psychotic organization, which may involve schizophrenia and bipolar (manic—depressive) diagnoses, is medication, external structure, and supportive therapy. The borderline level includes characterological or personality disorders, including the narcissistic and borderline disorders, which supposedly stem from arrest in developing a separated-individuated “self” due to constitutional factors and failures in parental empathy and responsiveness to needs. They can involve psychosis at times of stress and require ego and self “structure-building” rather than uncovering therapy or meditation. To undergo “derepressive” meditation practices, such people need a healthier sense of self and more “ego strength,” including abilities to observe self, tolerate intense emotional states, and experience feelings without acting on them. For people with neurotic organization, however, meditation can be helpful because its derepressive effect enables “regression in service of the ego.” In other words, neurotic repression is overcome and unconscious material can be made conscious and integrated.

    Epstein (1986, 1998, 1989, 1990), in contrast to the above authors, believes that meditation can help transform borderline and narcissistic pathology. At deeper levels of practice, concentration and insight practices enable knowledge of the insubstantiality of selfhood and balances that knowledge with calmness.. Thereby, a transcendence of narcissism is promoted. He does not recommend advanced insight practice for people at a borderline level of organization, however, because it involves relinquishing fundamental beliefs about self and world and experiencing terrifying upsurges of regressive material. For such people, he recommends preliminary concentrative and mindfulness practices that promote ego development through stabilizing emotions and gaining an observing stance and more cohesive sense of experience. Epstein (1993) also recommends that people continue taking prescribed medication while meditating. (See also Epstein & Lieff, 1986.)

    http://downthecrookedpath-meditation-gurus.blogspot.com/2012/03/meditation-related-psychosis-from.html

  28. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Delight For This Post:

    Dawn (27th March 2014), DNA (18th April 2014), Finefeather (18th March 2014), RunningDeer (18th March 2014)

  29. Link to Post #75
    United States Avalon Member
    Join Date
    20th February 2014
    Posts
    237
    Thanks
    579
    Thanked 1,044 times in 226 posts

    Default Re: Meditation, and any work with Chi or Prana may invite possession by Jinn

    Quote Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
    chocolate, it's been my experience and understanding from a youngish age that trance is dangerous, and I believe it has no place in true spirituality. You can draw a distinction between "concentration meditation" and "awareness meditation". Although awareness meditation uses concentration, particularly in the beginner-like stages, at a certain point of intensity of concentration, too much concentration interferes with one's ability to be open enough to be fully aware of whatever may be. That, for me, is the exact point where it turns into trance. I've always liked Zen meditation because it's essentially (or mostly, or in its purest form) just the awareness style of meditation, "straight". I also always, always meditated with my eyes half-open (or even fully open) up until my late forties -- again, because I instinctively knew without doubt that any sort of trance was dangerous, at least potentially. It's also one reason why I've always been suspicious of the use of any sort of drugs or props -- even chanting. If you meditate with your eyes half-open and stay 100% alert, you'll be absorbed solely into your "own" greater and greater Self, and not in an egoic way either. Awareness means being there. It's just a matter of raising the "level" of "there" higher and higher and wider and wider.

    If I understand correctly, of course trance of any kind strongly invites certain kinds of very partial possession or worse, for reasons which a number of posters have already explained in considerable detail here. It's a big red flag that you wave in case they haven't noticed you've set aside your defences -- your natural protection. Why give up your deeper "I", ever? As we know, ultimately that is Source itself. And yet, as I understand it, trance is precisely such a giving up. Of course trance of any kind will at least open you to psychic parasites.

    Regarding transmission of chi, I do love to receive the essence behind the chi a true master of it is transmitting. I've learnt how to gobble up every last tidbit. If I'd been there, chocolate, when that Shaolin master was transmitting, they wouldn't need to put it into a statue, because I'd take it all, and not apologize. Be assured, I would have diverted it from the statue while he was transmitting, if he tried to put it into a statue while I was around. It's taken me a very long time indeed to master how to do that. But I'd have to admit that a considerable deal of my own liberation has come from absorbing every drop that great masters of enlightenment or of chi had in them to offer others. In a way it's quite embarrassing to admit that, because on this Forum and its predecessors I've always been so loud in saying: "Don't follow any teacher. Be your own light." OK, as far as great masters who transmit profound chi or whatever it is, I've been a hypocrite in not owning up to how much I'm indebted to the Light I received from such (male and female) masters.

    And again, at the risk of being very boringly repetitious, I'm absolutely shocked to hear that anyone believes any kind of spiritual practice that involves going into a trance of any kind is valid or good -- for reasons connected to what Dawn was trying to warn about in her OP. Always be here now. Don't be an airhead.
    Except that many people really have found peace and really are healthier, happier, and more healed from work that involves altered consciousness. Saying no way on any of it makes no sense to me. I have seen amazing results and I have seen people hurt from not taking precautions or working with someone who does know risks and how to be safe. I guess once again, to each his own ideas and practices.

    Oh, and edited to add that part of knowing what technique is correct for a particular person is knowing who not to discuss guides or encourage to alter consciousness. If someone has trouble with reality already (whatever reality is), obviously telling them to meditate and see what their internal voices are telling them isn't the best way to approach issues.
    Last edited by Synchronicity; 17th March 2014 at 17:21.

  30. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Synchronicity For This Post:

    chocolate (18th March 2014), Dawn (27th March 2014), Delight (17th March 2014), Finefeather (18th March 2014), RunningDeer (18th March 2014)

  31. Link to Post #76
    Avalon Member TraineeHuman's Avatar
    Join Date
    22nd March 2010
    Posts
    1,926
    Thanks
    4,527
    Thanked 11,927 times in 1,827 posts

    Default Re: Meditation, and any work with Chi or Prana may invite possession by Jinn

    I'm afraid people should seriously consider the possibility that just maybe I'm very aware of pretty much everything involved in their points of view as expressed regarding trance so far, but that perhaps they may not even have begun to become aware of some elements and some of the knowledge in my point of view that lead me to say that all trance is potentially dangerous.

    There's a huge difference between driving in a trance -- which can be fatally dangerous -- and driving with a dual consciousness, where one is actually more aware (and less asleep, less in the "normal" "trance"), where one will often actually be a safer driver.

    In the OBEs... thread, I've included some basic suggestions/instructions regarding how everyone should create the appropriate protection before anytime they go to sleep. If I ever sleep away from home, I spend some time cleaning up the energies in the location where I'll sleep, because I'm aware enough in that field to know what's advisable.
    Above all, always refuse to cut your life in two: nonduality/duality, matter/Spirit, etc
    A mind which is not crippled by memory has real freedom. ~ J. Krishnamurti
    (True, deep) stillness is the way.

  32. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to TraineeHuman For This Post:

    Dawn (27th March 2014), Delight (18th March 2014), Hervé (18th March 2014)

  33. Link to Post #77
    United States Avalon Member
    Join Date
    20th February 2014
    Posts
    237
    Thanks
    579
    Thanked 1,044 times in 226 posts

    Default Re: Meditation, and any work with Chi or Prana may invite possession by Jinn

    Quote Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
    I'm afraid people should seriously consider the possibility that just maybe I'm very aware of pretty much everything involved in their points of view as expressed regarding trance so far, but that perhaps they may not even have begun to become aware of some elements and some of the knowledge in my point of view that lead me to say that all trance is potentially dangerous.

    There's a huge difference between driving in a trance -- which can be fatally dangerous -- and driving with a dual consciousness, where one is actually more aware (and less asleep, less in the "normal" "trance"), where one will often actually be a safer driver.

    In the OBEs... thread, I've included some basic suggestions/instructions regarding how everyone should create the appropriate protection before anytime they go to sleep. If I ever sleep away from home, I spend some time cleaning up the energies in the location where I'll sleep, because I'm aware enough in that field to know what's advisable.
    The bolded part...yes, I can see that it is possible since we hopefully all grow and learn, and everything in life is potentially dangerous in some way. My question is if you can see that it might be possible that your view is your view and possibly not absolute either. Because you see a dark shape somewhere and someone else doesn't, it doesn't mean either of you are necessarily right. Maybe one is there and maybe it isn't, or maybe it is only there for one of you and really isn't there for the other. Your experience is your foundation for your beliefs just as everyone's are, and everyone else's is as just as much the foundation of theirs.

    My point is that while you grew into the idea that this is a certain way and you are past where others might be, others may feel they have seen where you are and grown past it as well. I'm not saying who is right or wrong and have no interest in doing so, but just that anyone who is changing and growing, learning, and experiencing situations goes through times when something is horrible, but then not so bad, and maybe eventually is a life choice that feels right. The reverse happens as well.

    Back in the 70s women had big puffy hair and at some point (can't remember) most wore big shoulder pads. They felt they evolved into thinking that was the best way to dress, and if someone else hadn't "discovered" that it was the only way to look they might be seen as old fashioned or simple...not into touch with what was the "right" way to look or act. Then that fell out of fashion and for a good period anyone that dressed that way with big hair was seen as behind the times and a bit naive or clueless as to what was the "right" and informed way to dress and wear hair. We do this with just about everything, I think, even in or out of religion or political viewpoints. I am a very, very different person than when I was young, and I think we would all say the same.

    So maybe your set of experiences in life has convinced you that none of it is good or safe, and I can respect that you honestly think that way and wouldn't ask you to do anything that wasn't in your comfort zone. Maybe you are right, or right for yourself. Maybe it isn't safe for you and for some, but others have a different set of experiences that are valid as well. Many come out of feeling that it isn't ever safe or okay and feel they have grown into "knowing" or "feeling" that it can be a wonderful thing under safe conditions. Who is to judge who has absolute knowledge of what stage of beliefs is "the" right one? We can't really know, since we could all be tricked right now as we type into typing the opposite of the real and only truth, and we wouldn't even know it. It can get pretty tricky, but as one grows into something, another grows into something else, and I believe that for each person that place on the path is right for him or her.

    Since you feel as you describe, I would agree that it isn't a good choice for you and no one should be trying to convince you it is. On the other hand, someone else might be at a different place and on a path where it is something he or she can be safe and benefit from. If I, as a teen or young adult, had been able to watch myself as I am now I would think I was crazy to live as I do, and when I look back on who I was then I see someone who was taught fear and told not to reach to explore or stand up for myself, and not to be myself. I sure can't judge for anyone else what is right, but I do see people benefit and live happy, peaceful, productive lives using safe techniques, so I can't say it is always a bad thing for everyone. I agree that keeping our sleeping areas cleansed and positive is important for sure, and I guess this is one of those things where people are just in different places on the road and we have to find what feels right to us where we go from agreeing on the cleansing. Knowledge and awareness are key to being safe, so it's nice to have so many points of view to consider along the way.

  34. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Synchronicity For This Post:

    chocolate (18th March 2014), Dawn (27th March 2014), Delight (18th March 2014), Finefeather (18th March 2014), RunningDeer (18th March 2014), Wind (18th March 2014)

  35. Link to Post #78
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    4th June 2013
    Posts
    1,549
    Thanks
    6,401
    Thanked 7,180 times in 1,448 posts

    Default Re: Meditation, and any work with Chi or Prana may invite possession by Jinn

    About the trance part, I don't really remember if I have mentioned it, or not, related to the subject of the thread.
    It is possible that TH is trying to tell me personally that I probably am partially in states of trance, based on some other posts I have done. And I will have to agree, because I cannot be sure that I haven't been. If I have, it happens on its own terms without my conscious involvement.
    But that is not really something I pay attention to all that much, since my world view changed some time ago, and from that point on it really got easier.

    I decided to stop by just to share a video, which is also posted on one of the threads about OBEs.



    I think it contains a lot of useful information, not so much related to jinn, and the like, but more about why we can override the jinn reality, because we are beings 'superior' in nature.
    I don't want to start a conversation about elitism as well. I only would want to help others realize that everything is one level much simpler than they think, or much more complicated, depending on how you look at it.

    ~~~

    For the record: my grandmother was a kind of a spiritual healer, or what some call a shaman, may be. She had red hair, grey eyes, and she was great despite what some of my family believed about her.

    She used to heal children and adults from voodoo curses. !!
    I have seen many come and go.
    I remember this from the time I was 5.
    I couldn't exactly understand what was happening, but with some life experience it became clearer.

    At one point when she was ~70 something years old, she developed breast cancer. She tried to heal it with the same methods she was used to. She went to see other 'healers' ...

    Months went by, the tumor grew larger to the point when an operation was necessary.
    She went for an operation. She went through chemo.
    I used to make her sandwiches with cheese and tomato, which she said were amazing until she admitted she can't feel their taste ...

    She passed away soon after.
    She sometimes comes in my dreams.
    And this was in a very, very dark time for me.

    That is to say, be careful in which areas you dwell, and how you make your choices.
    You can't use the same methods everywhere and for everything.

    My mother carries some of the same gift, but a bit milder, and I think much more practical. She used to heal my knees when I was growing like a mushroom.

    As you can understand, we all share a certain level of experiences.
    Not that I can say my family is as important or with such a history as the family lines of TraineeHuman or Dawn.

    Or may be I just don't put the emphasis of my life on such details.
    Last edited by chocolate; 18th March 2014 at 13:28. Reason: spelling and formatting

  36. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to chocolate For This Post:

    Dawn (27th March 2014), NoNeedForAName (19th March 2014), RunningDeer (18th March 2014), TraineeHuman (18th March 2014), Wind (18th March 2014)

  37. Link to Post #79
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    4th June 2013
    Posts
    1,549
    Thanks
    6,401
    Thanked 7,180 times in 1,448 posts

    Default Re: Meditation, and any work with Chi or Prana may invite possession by Jinn

    Trainee, I was using one of Dawn's articles just to point out a few very strange points. I don't relate to any of what has been written there, neither I can dismiss it easily. I only tried to clear a few concepts from there. As pan tried to help me with this task later.

    It may come as a surprise for you, but I don't do much meditation, as you call it, neither I do concentration, unless I am working on a project. I don't try to have an OBE either, and I just don't try too hard to do anything anymore.
    Some things for me are natural.
    And probably express themselves differently than some are used to see them.

    It might be helpful to realize we are not all the same, even though we might share a certain level of something.
    Last edited by chocolate; 18th March 2014 at 13:40.

  38. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to chocolate For This Post:

    Dawn (27th March 2014), Jake (18th March 2014), RunningDeer (18th March 2014), Synchronicity (18th March 2014), Wind (18th March 2014)

  39. Link to Post #80
    United States On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    18th January 2012
    Location
    Pacific NW
    Posts
    357
    Thanks
    9,163
    Thanked 2,665 times in 349 posts

    Default Re: Meditation, and any work with Chi or Prana may invite possession by Jinn

    I truly do believe there is a whole world of sentient beings that, because they didn’t tow the line (of control, enslavement, and oppression), became essentially a parallel unseen world to our own. They never submitted and they have been here through all that has occurred over the course of time here on planet earth, and were here when the primary goal of incarnated beings was to create and maintain beautiful gardens. To work co-creatively, with great mutual respect and honor between species and the forces of nature, and be the caretakers and protectors of this beautiful planet. Maybe this is actually a legacy that originated on another planet, maybe in another star system. Maybe, it is as Agape relates in her story, a multi layered fall from a higher state of consciousness, to one of various levels of impairment resulting from an inability to adjust to a foreign environment.

    I also believe that it is possible to reconnect with this natural world in a totally beneficial and life affirming manner that absolutely is as easy as spending time in nature and talking to everything you see with new eyes, as if it was actually as alive and able to communicate with you as your best friend. Seriously, I talk to everything. Out loud even. I can feel the differences between unseen energies now, that either mean to interact in a friendly manner open to mutual sharing, or in a manner that feels controlling or menacing in some way. I didn’t really realize this until the recent discussion about the Jinn. I don’t know what the Jinn really are, and so far I have not really heard definitively from anyone who does know and is willing to share enough to make any assumptions on. I do know, at least from my own personal experiences that I feel very protected when I am out in nature, and this has come about because of a 20 year journey that started with a 3 day fast in a somewhat remote area where my goal was to make a stronger connection with those unseen forces. The energies of nature, when not controlled by man through occult means (or a secret priesthood of man, hybrids, or outright hostile beings from somewhere else who may even be somewhat related to some of these beings/energies that got pushed out of this dimension), are not hostile to anyone who approaches them with respect, as equals. Not under, not above, but as true equals with different attributes.

    This has come about after working simultaneously for some time with the “methods of others”. I pretty much quit using the methods of others I realized because it is now time for all of us, in my most humble opinion, to each develop our own unique and very personalized way of communicating and learning to understand for ourselves through our own personal experiences, what it means to work with these various energies. To me, they are like individual people in a way. They are around us all the time and, I believe, are most eager to communicate with us. I actually talk to the trees and tree people around me, the four leggeds of all kinds, the flying ones, those that live in the waters, both fresh and salt. I even talk to the insects I meet. I also talk to all the stone people, and I just realized that I have been consistently over a many years period of time, developing a relationship with these beings that in some ways is more real and fulfilling than many of my human relationships with my fellowman. In many ways they are more trustworthy. But that has just been my experience. I’ve got to think I’m not alone in this. I have chores to do so I am going to leave this as it is for now and would just love it if someone else with similar experiences could maybe elaborate on this idea even more. But, for me, this world (artificially created to control us IMO) would almost be unbearable were it not for my relationship with what to me is the “real world”.

  40. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to spiritwind For This Post:

    Dawn (27th March 2014), Marianne (18th March 2014), RunningDeer (18th March 2014), Shezbeth (16th April 2014), Synchronicity (18th March 2014), TraineeHuman (18th March 2014)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 11 FirstFirst 1 4 11 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts