Peak Oil debate...resolved?

[donk]

With the passing of Mike Ruppert, I am reminded of the issue that got me over the hump, off the fence, down the rabbit hole (whatever you want to call the transition from the mundane, physical 3D, atheist mentality I’ve had most my life): PEAK OIL

One poster in the tribute thread mentioned he was “on the wrong end of the peak oil debate”…so now I’m curious: what is the “right end” of the peak oil debate?

My personal belief was that we find ourselves in a civilization dependent on affordable-usable-energy-to-the-lower-and-middle-classes-based civilization, which is currently built on the paradigm that petrochemical and carbon based sources (oil, NG, coal) are necessary to continue with the status quo/BAU (business as usual, as he liked to call it).

I believe there is a finite amount of the resources this paradigm is based on. I also believe that technology is way obsolete, though this is by design, and keeping this fact a secret (and even “conspiracy”) continues the BAU that our controllers—those who make the decisions that determine what the “energy industry” is doing—desire and seem to exist for (them and the way of life they have created for us).

My understanding of the “peak oil debate” is that we have reached (passed, actually) the point where it costs a barrel of oil to extract one, that the return on the investment of energy from “fossil-fuel” based technology is negative. Also, my understanding came from studying such things about a half decade or so ago, when the claim was that hit that point around aught-four or five, which is around the time people stopped believing gas was going to go back down as it was supposed to be as cyclical as the rest of the commodities and investments in our faith-based economy, and it seemed that resource scarcity was no longer THE thing to be concerned about (at least from where I was at the time).

I have come to the conclusion that the faith-based economy can be molded into whatever the creators of it want, as long as there were believers, and there are plenty—so I feel the can be kicked much much further down the road than I used to believe. My economics degree and subsequent lead to the belief that social collapse was inevitable, this was proven to be contrived as the decade progressed and all that really had to be done was the constant changing of inconvenient rules and covering of the violations of the larger ones. It seemed to me that the magnitude and quantity of these rule changes and cover ups made “peak oil debates” obsolete and irrelevant.

I am convinced that “free energy” technology will be “discovered” (and metered/controlled) just as soon as the can kicking becomes more unmanageable than it is now, and maybe between now and then some new crisis will be invented…however—I do believe that crisis was real, within the confines of the system that it was created in—which most of us here agree is just reality show or game within the bigger picture.

But I’m curious, where does the debate stand today? The “facts” were all wrong back then? Petrochemicals are limitless, we will never achieve net loss on EROI of oil?

[araucaria]

Peak oil fits in with the scarcity paradigm. Some oilfields have dried up, while others, I gather, seem to keep on giving beyond expectations. And of course new supplies are being found in places like Greece. So we get squeezed both ways – price hikes because of the scarcity and no escape to alternative fuels because there is still more oil to be sold.

We don't really know what oil actually is. What if it was some kind of Gaian blood supply that is somehow replenished? There is a limit to the number of blood donations you can make because of the need for replenishment, just as you can log a forest or fish a sea only up to a point if you want to keep the forest or the fish supply. We may be getting more oil than anticipated, but we may be doing much more damage than we thought we were doing just by emptying areas underground, which itself is probably not as harmless as we think.

I don’t think there is a right and a wrong side to this debate. We should have been way past this discussion by now. The trouble is of course that free energy is something that would be a total disaster unless we get the psychopaths down to a manageable level. As the late Brian O’Leary used to say, we can’t have Dick Cheney running this show.

[donk]

I agree completely, however, it was "a thing"...it occasionally even came up in the mainstream, and I was wondering if it still did. A decade ago the data pointed toward "peak oil" being projected to have happened about 2004-2005. There was disinfo and stigma attached to the idea, which the purists fought to make clear that it wasn't "running out of oil", rather it was the point it took more energy than it produced. I stopped paying attention long ago, and was wondering I guess if peak oil is even still "a thing" to most people (for lack of better word), or if the game has been changed so much it's not even "part of the rules"...not even on the radar?

[sirdipswitch]

No peak oil. Big oil, formed OPEC, as a means to control prices. They then turned off U.S. oil, to make us dependent on foreign oil. Back in the day, early 80's, I was a bit more pro-active than today, I met with a Canadian Geologist, that had come up with a "new" theory. He surmized that oil, cooking over millions of years underground, would more than likely, Burp. Yep, burp. He bought a dead well. Dry well. He then drilled it "deeper". The deepest in history, and found 100 times more oil than was in the burp, that it took 20 years to pump dry. I talked with him after he had re-drilled many, with the very same results.

But, he did so just "prior" to big oil, finally making their move. They started shuting down U.S. and Canadian oil. yep. They started turning off oil wells all over both countries. I met with ranchers from, Montana, N&S Dakota, Wyoming, and Colorado, who said one day the oil comanies just came in and started turning everything off, and some were even brand new wells. They left one well pumping on each ranch. They then went in and covered them all with dirt and grass, and today you can go out there and not find a trace of an oil well, when there used to be thousands of them out there pumping merrily away. And suddenly we were dependent on foreign oil. That's why gas prices went from 30 cents a gallon, to $4.00 per gallon. Not peak oil.

I remember also in "71", I bought a new Datsun. Yep me, I had fell in love with those cute little critters, while in Thailand. They were small, fun to drive, and got 35 miles per gallon, and not the 10 or 12 I grew up with. The Big three auto manufacturers were goin nuts, sayin all these little cars would "flood" our market, and there was really no need to "worry" over running out of "oil", cuz we; "Have enough in the ground, for the next 500 years "!!!! Then just as suddenly they joined forces with those Little car makers, and 5 years latter, through a bunch more double-speak, we were "out of oil"!! huh??? What happened to that 500 years worth???

Yep, I been in this ol wabbit hole for very long time. ccc.

[araucaria]

Weren't people saying that the Iraqi war(s) was/were about the US getting its hand on Iraqi oil - to take it off the market?

[donk]

So do you think there was focused, coordinated "psyop" to bring the meme of peak oil into the finance industry, where the "data" flooding the media and contradictory beliefs about manipulated the markets to the controllers desires, or was it created as a "fact" to those highest level players in the industry, who actually believed it--and in that case the controllers benefit from the "chaos" and "unknowns" it created?

It's such a big game that it seems that most would have actually believe in it in order for it to exist, if I am making any sense?

[Rocky_Shorz]

truthfully I have looked back far enough through those in Power to understand Oil was forced on the modern world, to get us hooked so we would accept wars to keep our oil junky habbits going... Religious wars were no longer something the modern world cared about...

wars for oil turned into a religious battle, which perpetuated the pain we are still going through today...

I'm ready to unplug my IV, and go 99% pure on my addiction...

when everyone is ready to turn away from oil and continue what Tesla started, the wars will end...

[donk]

Posted by araucaria (here)
Weren't people saying that the Iraqi war(s) was/were about the US getting its hand on Iraqi oil - to take it off the market?

I'm pretty sure the oil being stolen there by US interests (aka global oil companies) are STILL unmetered, as they definitely were through and immediately after that "war".

Also a more logical assumption would be it a myriad objectives happening while the main objective is mindf*cking the consumers of the "news". This would include the implied threat to the (petro) dollar that saddam was moving to euros, maybe the secret tech and archeological knowledge looted from the birthplace of western civilization, and perhaps even good old fashioned traumatizing humans, not so much for the loot as for the "loosh"?

Who knows, war serves the controllers/originators of it well in a plethora of ways, all they have to do is drop a few (believable or not) reasons into the conversation, and people's emotional attachment to their beliefs takes over...

[NancyV]

Not only is PEAK OIL most likely a myth but there is also a lot of evidence that oil is self renewing. I've read many articles over the years about both scenarios. The article below is from 2005 but still relevant. It talks about the peak oil myth and touches on self renewing oil. IF oil is self renewing then we would never run out of it. The controllers are not only handing us the peak oil myth to manipulate prices, control populations, have excuses for wars and make a shtload of money, they deliberately repress GOOD clean energy sources while promoting clean energy sources they know are not as viable or effective....just so we will THINK they are in favor of alternative energy.

The Myth Of Peak Oil
http://www.prisonplanet.com/archives/peak_oil/index.htm

Paul Joseph Watson & Alex Jones | October 12 2005

Peak oil is a scam designed to create artificial scarcity and jack up prices while giving the state an excuse to invade our lives and order us to sacrifice our hard-earned living standards.

Publicly available CFR and Club of Rome strategy manuals from 30 years ago say that a global government needs to control the world population through neo-feudalism by creating artificial scarcity. Now that the social architects have de-industrialized the United States, they are going to blame our economic disintegration on lack of energy supplies.

Globalization is all about consolidation. Now that the world economy has become so centralized through the Globalists operations, they are going to continue to consolidate and blame it on the West's "evil" overconsumption of fossil fuels, while at the same time blocking the development and integration of renewable clean technologies.

In other words, Peak oil is a scam to create artificial scarcity and drive prices up. Meanwhile, alternative fuel technologies which have been around for decades are intentionally suppressed.

Peak oil is a theory advanced by the elite, by the oil industry, by the very people that you would think peak oil would harm, unless it was a cover for another agenda. Which from the evidence of artificial scarcity being deliberately created, the reasons for doing so and who benefits, it’s clear that peak oil is a myth and it should be exposed for what it is. Another excuse for the Globalists to seize more control over our lives and sacrifice more American sovereignty in the meantime.

The lies of artificial scarcity

The crux of the issue is that if oil was plentiful in areas in which we are being told by the government and the oil companies that it is not, then we have clear evidence that artificial scarcity is being simulated in order to drive forward a myriad of other agendas. And we have concrete examples of where this has happened.

Three separate internal confidential memos from Mobil, Chevron and Texaco have been obtained by The Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights.

These memos outline a deliberate agenda to gouge prices and create artificial scarcity by limiting capacities of and outright closing oil refineries. This was a nationwide lobbying effort led by the American Petroleum Institute to encourage refineries to do this.

An internal Chevron memo states; "A senior energy analyst at the recent API convention warned that if the US petroleum industry doesn't reduce its refining capacity it will never see any substantial increase in refinery margins."

The Memos make clear that blockages in refining capacity and opening new refineries did not come from environmental organizations, as the oil industry claimed, but via a deliberate policy of limitation and price gouging at the behest of the oil industry itself.

The mystery of Eugene Island 330 and self-renewing oil supplies

Eugene Island is an oil field in the gulf of Mexico, 80 miles off the coast of Louisiana. It was discovered in 1973 and began producing 15,000 barrels of oil a day which then slowed to about 4,000 barrels in 1989.

But then for no logical reason whatsoever, production spiked back up to 13,000 barrels a day.

What the researchers found when they analyzed the oil field with time lapse 3-D seismic imaging is that there was an unexplained deep fault in the bottom corner of the computer scan, which showed oil gushing in from a previously unknown deep source and migrating up through the rock to replenish the existing supply.

Furthermore, the analysis of the oil now being produced at Eugene Island shows that its age is geologically different from the oil produced there after the refinery first opened. Suggesting strongly that it is now emerging from a different, unexplained source.

The last estimates of probable reserves shot up from 60 million barrels to 400 million barrels.

Both the scientists and geologists from the big oil companies have seen the evidence and admitted that the Eugene Island oil field is refilling itself.

This completely contradicts peak oil theory and with technology improving at an accelerating pace it seems obvious that there are more Eugene Islands out there waiting to be discovered. So the scientific community needs to embrace these possibilities and lobby for funding into finding more of these deep source replenishing oilfields.

The existence of self-renewing oil fields shatters the peak oil myth. If oil is a naturally replenishing inorganic substance then how can it possibly run out?

The future of oil

This year in particular we have seen a strong hike in oil prices and are being told to simply get used to it because this is the way it is going to be. In the wake of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita gas prices have shot up amid claims of vast energy shortages. Americans are being asked to turn off lights, change thermostat settings, drive slower, insulate homes and take other steps. Meanwhile the oil companies continue to make record profits.

Flying in the face of the so called peak oil crisis are the facts. If we are running out of oil so quickly then why are reserves being continually increased and production skyrocketing?

In the 1980s OPEC decided to switch to a quota production system based on the size of reserves. The larger the reserves a country said it had the more it could pump.

Earlier this year Saudi Arabia reportedly increased its crude reserves by around 200 billion barrels. Saudi oil Is secure and plentiful, say officials.

“These huge reserves enable the Kingdom to remain a major oil producer for between 70 and 100 years, even if it raises its production capacity to 15 million barrels per day, which may well happen during the next 15 years,”

Is this the normal course of behavior if we are currently at the peak for oil production? The answer is no, it's the normal course of action for increasing production.

There have also been reports that Russia has vastly increased its reserves even beyond those of Saudi Arabia. Why would they do this if they believed there would be no more oil to get hold of? It seems clear that Russia is ready for unlimited future production of oil.

There is a clear contradiction between the peak oil theory and the continual increase in oil reserves and production.

New untapped oil sources are being discovered everywhere on earth. The notion that there are somehow only a few sources that the West is trying to monopolize is a complete myth, promulgated by those raking in the massive profits. After all how do you make huge profits from something available in abundance?

A Wall Street Journal article by Peter Huber and Mark Mills describes how the price of oil remains high because the cost of oil remains so low. We are not dependent on the middle east for oil because the world's supplies are diminishing, it is because it is more profitable to tap middle east supplies. Thus the myth of peak oil is needed in order to silence the call for tapping the planet's other plentiful reserves.

Richard Branson has even stated his intention to set up his own refinery because the price of oil is artificially being kept high whilst new sources are not being explored and new refineries not being built.

"Opec is effectively an illegal cartel that can meet happily, nobody takes them to court," Branson has said. "They collude to keep prices high."

So if more refineries were built and different resources tapped, the oil prices would come down and the illegal cartel OPEC would see profits diminish. It is no wonder then that the argument for peak oil is so appealing to OPEC. If no one invests to build refineries because they don't believe there is enough oil, then who benefits? OPEC and the oil elites of course.

It seems that every time there is some kind of energy crisis, OPEC INCREASES production. The remarkable thing about this is that they always state that they are doing it to ease prices, yet prices always shoot up because they promulgate the myth that they are putting some of their last reserves into the market. Analysts seem confused and always state that they don't believe upping production will cut prices.

In a recent report the International Monetary Fund projected that global demand for oil by 2030 would reach 139 million barrels a day, a 65 percent increase.

"We should expect to live with high and volatile oil prices," said Raghuram Rajan, the IMF's chief economist. "In short, it's going to be a rocky road going forward."

Yet independent analysts and even some within OPEC seem to believe that the demand for oil is diminishing. Why the contradiction?

The peak oil and demand myth is peddled by the establishment-run fake left activist groups, OPEC and globalist arms such as the IMF.

Rolling Stone magazine even carried an article in its April issue heavily biased towards making people believe the peak oil lie.

The Scientific evidence also flies in the face of the peak oil theory. Scientific research dating back over a hundred years, more recently updated in a Scientific Paper Published In 'Energia' suggests that oil is abiotic, not the product of long decayed biological matter. Oil, for better or for worse, is not a non-renewable resource. It, like coal, and natural gas, replenishes from sources within the mantle of earth.

No coincidence then that the Russians, who pioneered this research have pumped expenditure into deep underground oil excavation.

We have previously scientifically exposed the scam behind peak oil. Here is a 1 hour+ audio clip featuring Alex Jones' comments on peak oil and then the analysis of respected scientific commentator Dr. Nick Begich who presents evidence to suggest the idea of Peak oil is artificial.

A dangerous fallout precedent being set is that people on both the left and right believe wars are being fought in order to tap the last reserves of oil on the planet. The "coalition of the willing", whoever they may be for any given war, will not pay particular attention to refuting this claim because it allows them a reason to start and continue said war.

Even though many will see it as immoral, many will subconsciously attach it as a reason for the war. In reality the war is purely for profit, power and control, oil can be a part of that, but only if the peak oil claim is upheld.

If we continue to let the corrupt elite tell us we are wholly dependent on oil, we may reach a twisted situation whereby they can justify starvation and mass global poverty, perhaps even depopulation, even within the western world due to the fact that our energy supplies are finished.

Peak oil is just another weapon the globalists have in their arsenal to move towards a new world order where the elite get richer and everyone else falls into line.

[Milneman]

And on the other end of that spectrum, keeping it academic of course, is this:

http://www.carbontracker.org

The Carbon Tracker Initiative is aiming to improve the transparency of the carbon embedded in equity markets. This will be done by identifying the scale of unburnable carbon currently listed on stock exchanges around the world in order to demonstrate the systemic risk to markets. This forms around 5 central workstreams:

Assessing systemic climate change risk
Challenging valuation assumptions and identifying stranded assets
Accounting for impaired/stranded/sub-prime assets
Investigating the Capital Raising process
Exploring the contradiction between climate policy and markets

Unburnable Carbon – Are the world’s financial markets carrying a carbon bubble?

In March 2012, Carbon Tracker’s seminal report ‘Unburnable Carbon’ was Highly Commended in the City of London’s Sustainability Awards.

This award-winning analysis by Carbon Tracker discovers that:
Already in 2011, the world has used over a third of its 50-year carbon budget of 886GtCO2, leaving 565GtCO2
All of the proven reserves owned by private and public companies and governments are equivalent to 2,795 GtCO2
Fossil fuel reserves owned by the top 100 listed coal and top 100 listed oil and gas companies represent total emissions of 745GtCO2
Only 20% of the total reserves can be burned unabated, leaving up to 80% of assets technically unburnable.

This new research from Carbon Tracker and the Grantham Research Institute on Climate Change and the Environment at LSE calls for regulators, governments and investors to re-evaluate energy business models against carbon budgets, to prevent $6trillion carbon bubble in the next decade.
Unburnable carbon 2013: Wasted capital and stranded assets has revealed that fossil fuel reserves already far exceed the carbon budget to avoid global warming of 2°C, but in spite of this, spent $674billion last year to find and develop new potentially stranded assets.
“Smart investors can see that investing in companies that rely solely or heavily on constantly replenishing reserves of fossil fuels is becoming a very risky decision. The report raises serious questions as to the ability of the financial system to act on industry-wide long term risk, since currently the only measure of risk is performance against industry benchmarks.” Professor Lord Stern

The problem, people, is not the resource, or the renewability of it. Here's the challenge I put forward to people who question climate change. Forget oil and climate change. Take a walk in downtown Beijing. Breathe deeply. Ask yourself: is this good for one's health?



Here's another concept I didn't think about until my professor brought it up in the last week of lectures. We were actually discussing the ethics of oil and climate change when this little nugget hit the surface.

What about peak food???

[araucaria]

Petroleum of course needs to be put in its historical perspective, which is what the great Eustace Mullins does in his book MURDER BY INJECTION,The Story of the Medical Conspiracy Against America. See the quotes below for the links to farming, medicine, ill-health, finance, war, communism, Nazism: just about everything, which can be summed up in a name: Rockefeller.

The current hero of the Rockefeller interests is Norman
Borlaug, who was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1970. An Iowa
farmer, Borlaug had been sent to Mexico by the Rockefeller
interests in 1944 to develop new types of grain. During his
experiments there, he mated 60,000 different species of wheat,
resulting in the creation of an all tropical race of dwarfs, double
dwarfs and triple dwarfs by 1964. This was hailed as "the green
revolution." The resulting "superwheat" produced greater yields, but
this was done by "hyping" the soil with huge amounts of fertilizer
per acre, the fertilizer being the product of nitrates and petroleum,
commodities controlled by the Rockefellers. Huge quantities of
herbicides and pesticides were also used, creating additional markets
for the Rockefeller chemical empire. (…)

Modern fertilizer is a petroleum based industry. (…) Farmers also
borrowed heavily to buy expensive tractors which ran on gasoline,
greatly adding to the Rockefeller revenues, and at the same time
depriving them of the fertilizer formerly available from their horses.
113-4

Like J. P. Morgan, who had begun his commercial career by
selling the U.S. Army some defective guns, the famous Hall carbine
affair, John D. Rockefeller also was a war profiteer during the Civil
War; he sold unstamped Harkness liquor to Federal troops at a high
profit, gaining the initial capital to embark on his drive for
monopoly. His interest in the oil business was a natural one; his
father, William Rockefeller had been "in oil" for years. William
Rockefeller had become an oil entrepreneur after salt wells at
Tarentum, near Pittsburgh, were discovered in 1842 to be flowing
with oil. The owners of the wells, Samuel L. Kier, began to bottle
the oil and sell it for medicinal purposes. One of his earliest
wholesalers was William Rockefeller. The "medicine" was
originally labelled "Kier's Magic Oil.'' Rockefeller printed his own
labels, using "Rock Oil" or "Seneca Oil," Seneca being the name of
a well known Indian tribe. Rockefeller achieved his greatest
notoriety and his greatest profits by advertising himself as "William
Rockefeller, the Celebrated Cancer Specialist." It is understandable
that his grandsons would become the controlling power behind the
scenes of the world's most famous cancer treatment center and
would direct government funds and charitable contributions to those
areas which only benefit the Medical Monopoly. William
Rockefeller spared no claim in his flamboyant career. He guaranteed
"All Cases of Cancer Cured Unless They Are Too Far Gone.'' Such
were the healing powers that he attributed to his magic cancer cure
that he was able to retail it for $25 a bottle, a sum then equivalent to
two months' wages. The "cure" consisted of a few well known
diuretics, which had been diluted by water. This carnival medicine
show barker could hardly have envisioned that his descendants
would control the greatest and the most profitable Medical
Monopoly in recorded history.
As an itinerant "carnie," a travelling carnival peddler, William
Rockefeller had chosen a career which interfered with developing a
stable family life. His son John rarely saw him, a circumstance
which has inspired some psychological analysts to conjecture that
the absence of a father figure or parental love may have contributed
to John D. Rockefeller's subsequent development as a money mad
tyrant who plotted to maim, poison and kill millions of his fellow
American during almost a century of his monopolistic operations
and whose influence, reaching up from the grave, remains the most
dire and malignant presence in American life. This may have been a
contributing factor—however, it is also possible that he was totally
evil. It is hardly arguable that he is probably the most Satanic figure
in American history.
It has long been a truism that you can find a horse thief or two
in any prominent American family. In the Rockefeller family, it was
more than a truism. William seems to have faithfully followed the
precepts of the Will of Canaan throughout his career, "love robbery,
love lechery." He fled from a number of indictments for horse
stealing, finally disappearing altogether as William Rockefeller and
re-emerging as a Dr. William Levingston of Philadelphia, a name
which he retained for the rest of his life. An investigative reporter at
Joseph Pulitzer's New York World received a tip that was followed
up. The World then disclosed that William Avery Rockefeller had
died May 11, 1906 in Freeport, Illinois, where he was interred in an
unmarked grave as Dr. William Levingston. William Rockefeller's
vocation as a medicine man greatly facilitated his preferred
profession of horse thief. As one who planned to be in the next
county by morning, it was a simple matter to tie a handsome stallion
to the back of his wagon and head for the open road. It also played a
large part in his vocation as a woman-chaser; he was described as
being "woman-mad." He not only concluded several bigamous
marriages, but he seems to have had uncontrolled passions. On June
28, 1849, he was indicted for raping a hired girl in Cayuga, New
York; he later was found to be residing in Oswego, New York and
was forced once again to decamp for parts unknown. He had no
difficulty in financing his woman-chasing interests from the sale of his
miraculous cancer cure and from another product, his "Wonder
Working Liniment," which he offered at only two dollars a bottle. It
consisted of crude petroleum from which the lighter oils had been
boiled away, leaving a heavy solution of paraffin, lube oil and tar,
which comprised the "liniment." William Rockefeller's original
miracle oil survived until quite recently as a concoction called
Nujol, consisting principally of petroleum and peddled as a laxative.
It was well known that Nujol was merely an advertising sobriquet
meaning "new oil," as opposed, apparently, to "old oil." Sold as an
antidote to constipation, it robbed the body of fat-soluble vitamins,
it being a well-established medical fact that mineral oil coated the
intestine and prevented the absorption of many needed vitamins and
other nutritional needs. Its makers added carotene as a sop to the
health-conscious, but it was hardly worth the bother. Nujol was
manufactured by a subsidiary of Standard Oil of New Jersey, called
Stanco, whose only other product, manufactured on the same
premises, was the famous insecticide, Flit.
188-90

Just as the elder Rockefeller had spent his life in the pursuit of
his personal obsession, women, so his son John was equally
obsessed, being money-mad instead of women-mad, totally
committed to the pursuit of ever-increasing wealth and power.
However, the principal accomplishments of the Rockefeller drive
for power, the rebate scheme for monopoly, the chartering of the
foundations to gain power over American citizens, the creation of
the central bank, the Federal Reserve System, the backing of the
World Communist revolution and the creation of the Medical
Monopoly, all came from the Rothschilds or from their European
employees. We cannot find in the records of John D. Rockefeller
that he originated any one of these programs. The concept of the tax
exempt charitable foundation originated with the Rothschild minion,
George Pea-body, in 1865. The Peabody Educational Foundation
later became the Rockefeller Foundation. It is unlikely that even the
diabolical mind of John D. Rockefeller could have conceived of this
devious twist. A social historian has described the major
development of the late nineteenth century, when charitable
foundations and world Communism became important movements,
as one of the more interesting facets of history, perhaps equivalent
to the discovery of the wheel. This new discovery was the concept
developed by the rats, who after all have rather highly developed
intelligences, that they could trap people by baiting traps with little
bits of cheese. The history of mankind since then has been the rats
catching humans in their traps. Socialism—indeed, any government
program—is simply the rat baiting the trap with a smidgeon of
cheese and catching himself a human. 191

An important step on the road to world monopoly was the most
far-reaching corporation invented by the Rothschilds. This was the
international drug and chemical cartel, I. G. Farben. Called "a state
within a state," it was created in 1925 as Interessen Gemeinschaft
Farbeindustrie Aktien gesellschaft, usually known as I. G. Farben,
which simply meant "The Cartel." It had originated in 1904, when
the six major chemical companies in Germany began negotiations to
form the ultimate cartel, merging Badische Anilin, Bayer, Agfa,
Hoechst, Weiler-ter-Meer, and Greisheim-Electron. The guiding
spirit, as well as the financing, came from the Rothschilds, who
were represented by their German banker, Max Warburg, of M. M.
Warburg Company, Hamburg. He later headed the German Secret
Service during World War I and was personal financial adviser to
the Kaiser. When the Kaiser was overthrown, after losing the war,
Max Warburg was not exiled with him to Holland; instead, he
became the financial adviser to the new government. Monarchs may
come and go, but the real power remains with the bankers. While
representing Germany at the Paris Peace Conference, Max Warburg
spent pleasant hours renewing family ties with his brother, Paul
Warburg, who, after drafting the Federal Reserve Act at Jekyl
Island, had headed the U.S. banking system during the war. He was
in Paris as Woodrow Wilson's financial advisor. 193

In medicine, the Rockefeller influence remains entrenched in its
Medical Monopoly. We have mentioned its control of the cancer
industry through the Sloan Kettering Cancer Center. We have listed
the directors of the major drug firms, each with its director from
Chase Manhattan Bank, the Standard Oil Company or other
Rockefeller firms. The American College of Surgeons maintains a
monopolistic control of hospitals through the powerful Hospital
Survey Committee, with members Winthrop Aldrich and David
McAlpine Pyle representing the Rockefeller control. 200-1

The Rockefeller Institute for Medical Research finally dropped
the "Medical Research" part of its title; its president, Dr. Detlev
Bronk, resided in a $600,000 mansion furnished by this charitable
operation. Rockefeller's general Education Board has spent more
than $100 million to gain control of the nation's medical schools and
turn our physicians to physicians of the allopathic school, dedicated
to surgery and the heavy use of drugs. 201

As Ezra
Pound demanded in one of his famous radio broadcasts, "Health,
dammit!" America became the greatest and most productive nation
in the world because we had the healthiest citizens in the world.
When the Rockefeller Syndicate began its takeover of our medical
profession in 1910, our citizens went into a sharp decline. Today,
we suffer from a host of debilitating ailments, both mental and
physical, nearly all of which can be traced directly to the operations
of the chemical and drug monopoly, and which pose the greatest
threat to our continued existence as a nation. 204

[donk]

In the height of my peak oil fears in the middle of last decade, I had occasion to lunch with then president of US Chamber of Commerce...when I brought my fears of economic collapse (due to over-leveraging--aka fraud--of derivatives and the whole housing debacle) he said it was a non-issue thanks to the amount of existing liquidity. When I asked him if he was worried about peak oil, he was quick to respond he wasn't worried about oil at all, the resource scarcity that bothered him? Water.

Milneman: I agree, the issue I came to worry about more was it NOT peaking, and us poisoning the earth continually burning it up. And the whole issue that our food supply is pretty entirely petroleum-based (with the rare exception for y'all growing your own...)

[araucaria]

Posted by donk (here)
In the height of my peak oil fears in the middle of last decade, I had occasion to lunch with then president of US Chamber of Commerce...when I brought my fears of economic collapse (due to over-leveraging--aka fraud--of derivatives and the whole housing debacle) he said it was a non-issue thanks to the amount of existing liquidity. When I asked him if he was worried about peak oil, he was quick to respond he wasn't worried about oil at all, the resource scarcity that bothered him? Water.

Milneman: I agree, the issue I came to worry about more was it NOT peaking, and us poisoning the earth continually burning it up. And the whole issue that our food supply is pretty entirely petroleum-based (with the rare exception for y'all growing your own...)

Thre should be no problem with water: 70% of the planet is under sea water and the level is rising. Of course we still need to implement the technology, which as always means curbing greedy capitalists. Gerald Pollack's Fourth Phase of Water suggests how this could be done.

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Connecting with Sauce (here)
Andrew Norton Webber discusses this and there is a lot of research on his website.

I'm just now looking at Andrew Norton Webber's material, such as here.

His statements that the water in the body and in plants, and that rain water, is distilled are misleading, in my view. Such water was once distilled water, it is not still pure distilled water.

For example, rain water went through a distillation process, when it was evaporated into the air.

But it won't show up as zero (0) parts per million using a dissolved solids meter, because it has reabsorbed various minerals and ions, in the process of raining and becoming running surface and perhaps later underground water.

Similarly, in the body and in plants, dissolved mineral ions are essential for life. For example basic cell health depends on maintaining a large excessof Na+ outside the cell and a large excess of K+ ions on the inside (see here). The voltage drop across the cell wall is a key attribute of health.

I recommend these books:

• Healing is Voltage: The Handbook, 3rd Edition by Jerry L. Tennant
• The Fourth Phase of Water: Beyond Solid, Liquid, and Vapor by Gerald H. Pollack

The essential steps to good water are

1. remove the crud, such as by distilling, then
2. restore the essentials, including mineral ions in easily absorbed forms and structure.

[donk]

...well it was a major player--Mr. Big Biz himself, so I guess he was just prepping for the next contrived (tech suppression-based) shortage the media will transmitting in the whole BAU status quo game--he's at a level he gets to know the next couple moves before the rest of us (if he isn't actively participating in making them himself)

Though he seemed to me a good genuine dude, just that he's completely immersed in the paradigm...I had occasion to see him again recently but chose not to talk shop and enjoy the human moments at that time

...oh and as to your wording: there shouldn't be a problem with oil. It shouldn't difficult for "them" to make getting potable water a problem for most of us, if history is an indicator

[Snowflower]

It does not matter if oil is made from dead plants or if it is continually renewing itself from deep in the earth.

What matters is that the earth is floating in space and no ships are docking at the port to bring resources from some place else.

So what if oil is constantly generated? So what if it takes millions of years to make it from dead plants? When resources get used up, they are gone.

What do you suppose the earth uses as material to make anything? She doesn't pull in molecules from the vacuum of space, that's for sure. So, once the oil is burned, what will she use to make more?

That's really the only point worth making in the debate.

[Delight]

There should be no problem with water: 70% of the planet is under sea water and the level is rising. Of course we still need to implement the technology, which as always means curbing greedy capitalists. Gerald Pollack's Fourth Phase of Water suggests how this could be done.

When "Peak Oil" was popularized it was a looming threat. Then as the "threatened" scene failed to appear, people were disenchanted. IMO the will to create a whole new way must come from incentives toward a positive direction people feel is for the good. The same with "Global Warming". Climate change was couched as being warming. It is probably global cooling and wild fluctuation. How could we "plan" for wild fluctuation?

Issues are not often presented so that people can appreciate the objectives being for even better and better experiences and that this is a value...long range and with the least interference with Biosystems.

Apparently when Tesla came to Edison with his demonstration of a much better technology, Edison already was committed to the infrastructure he had invested in. He told Tesla to forget about seeing all the infrasturucture replaced just because the idea might work better.

There is way old infrastructure EVERYWHERE that is devoted to systems creating foul air, dirty water and denatured foods our daily lives run within: sewers, streets, machinery, services like community water filtration that leaves in pollutants, health care that is introducing even more consequences like antibiotic resistance. In every place, we can detail how the systems might be retrofitted, expanded or replaced for greater and better and more healthy reasons. The investment was already made and new cannot dovetail or old retrofit, expand or be replaced without drastic and inconvenient effort....

Just because earth may well create oil like blood does not mean it is elegant and useful to crudely bleed her.
Just because we have running water does not mean we should pee our drugs and pour our wastes into central sewers.
Just because tractors can plow earth does not mean this is Good for earth or people REALLY.

1."there SHOULD be no problem" .......I am sure from what I have read that there are enough now existing potentially integrated technologies so we can have beauty, clean air, clean water, abundant clean food, interesting work, sophistication AND the natural world.

It will take people who think we can have what we never had before. It is like being a poor Dickinsonian street urchin agreeing my living conditions are what should be expected as I was born into them.

People have other more pressing issues many days, and people cannot foresee how we "should have no problems" by the use of letting natural systems lead the way to comprehending our systems and change them JUST BECAUSE that is coordinated with nature.

What is the NOT threatening (and emergency based) "plug in" that could bring the people, resources and knowledge together? The threats that fail to develop are used as excuses to keep the crude.

The way I imagine it is that people would need to agree to orient around the systems. Society would almost have to change to a feeling that the fulcrum of importance is not individual desires and wants but community and system wide elegance. I have heard this slammed as some sort of evil socialism. But it is Over Unity as a value to gauge from.

I recall one definition of progress: "From what we have we give and from we give, more is returned". A system making no greater return would be jettisoned and when it was found that something failed to provide the beauty for the community, out that goes also.

I see a world butterfly approach...least force and greatest freedom of movement so when changes are good, we don't have heavy and cumbersome undoings of infra-prisoning (the prison of the infrastructure).

That is my visioning beyond "Peak F-utility"

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Snowflower (here)
When resources get used up, they are gone.

They are still here ... just in a different form.

Given enough energy, and the right technology, it can be converted back at useful rates.

[Ilie Pandia]

To properly discuss the peak oil issue I think we need to look at more data and consider the following:
- oil consumption rate and how it is increasing
- oil replenish rate (if indeed this is real) and how it relates to consumption rate: it replenishes fast enough to cover the ever increasing demand?
- how did oil came to be. Two competing theories: biotic and abiotic oil. If biotic, then replenish only means that deep oil surfaces not that "new oil" is produced
- how much energy is required to drill and then pump oil - too much to get profit?
- price manipulation is usually related to greed and not the availability of a resource. In other words, we cannot conclude from artificial price inflation that oil is still plentiful or renewable. If someone can get away with lying about stock to get their prices up they will likely do it, but that does not say anything about the stock level.

With the data I have seen so far I think that peak oil is real in the sense that:

1) we are burning it much faster than it is being produced (replenished or not). So it will end. It is just a matter of when?

2) burning oil affects the climate (another can of worms, I know), and all the CO2 released in the air will have an impact. With my current understanding there is a global warming going on (due to raise in CO2 levels), but that is again abused and manipulated to tax people even more.

So not everything is clear cut and if the Big Oil is lying about something that does not imply that the exact opposite must be true. If fact, on the opposite side is another arm of the same power playing "the opposition" and winning either way.

[Ilie Pandia]

Another note: closing down domestic pumps in favor of foreign oil makes perfect strategic sense if the resource is scarce: you want to use up the neighbor's resources first so they will lose access to it and only then you will use your own, that is close to home and easily defendable.

Doing it the other way around is risky, because you never know who will grab that oil if left alone in foreign territory.

So this again points to a scarce resource being managed, not a plentiful one.

[gnostic9]

Posted by Rocky_Shorz (here)
truthfully I have looked back far enough through those in Power to understand Oil was forced on the modern world, to get us hooked so we would accept wars to keep our oil junky habbits going... Religious wars were no longer something the modern world cared about...

wars for oil turned into a religious battle, which perpetuated the pain we are still going through today...

I'm ready to unplug my IV, and go 99% pure on my addiction...

when everyone is ready to turn away from oil and continue what Tesla started, the wars will end...

Hi Rocky. Why does Mother Earth/Gaia need oil? Is it a vital lubricant, maybe to stabilise earthquakes, when plates collide? or does it have no function, just a breakdown of carbon based life? When Mother Earth/Gaia is deprived of this through transfusion/siphoning, is she weakened? Is it the blood of the Mother? Just a thought! Love peace and joy to you brother/sister and all at avalon! ScarcityHaHaHa=diamonds!