Meditation, and any work with Chi or Prana may invite possession by Jinn

[Shezbeth]

Posted by wegge (here)
isn´t it possible to live in symbiotic relationship with these other "things" like it´s seen in nature like plants and fungi etc.??

That is quite literally one of the definitions of symbiosis.

4. any interdependent or mutually beneficial relationship between two persons, groups, etc.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/symbiosis

In my own interactions, the entity does not take, ask, or demand anything from me. I produce/emit/radiate more than sufficient energies just in being, and beyond that I choose to respect it because I find it respectable; This, it has shown, more than adequately satisfies it's interests. In exchange - both because it appreciates the conducivity of the relationship and in finding me to be respectable (allegedly) - I can dialogue in a variety of ways with it at will.

Neither party expends any resources in the interaction, and both party benefit.

[DNA]

Posted by wegge (here)
isn´t it possible to live in symbiotic relationship with these other "things" like it´s seen in nature like plants and fungi etc.??

I absolutely think you are correct in stating we should explore the idea of this concept.

I also think we should be cautious.

In an article by Carl Zimmer from Discovery Magazine August 2000 he states.

By one estimate, parasites may outnumber free-living species four to one. Indeed, the study of life is, for the most part, parasitology.

Most of the past century's research on parasites has gone into trying to fight the ones that cause devastating illness in humans, such as malaria, AIDS, and tuberculosis. But otherwise, parasites have largely been neglected. Scientists have treated them with indifference, even contempt, viewing them as essentially hitchhikers on life's road. But recent research reveals that parasites are remarkably sophisticated and tenacious and may be as important to ecosystems as the predators at the top of the food chain. Some castrate their hosts and take over their minds. Others completely shut down the immune systems of their hosts. Some scientists now think parasites have been a dominant force, perhaps the dominant force, in the evolution of life.

Full Article HERE

[DNA]

Posted by Shezbeth (here)
In my own interactions, the entity does not take, ask, or demand anything from me. I produce/emit/radiate more than sufficient energies just in being, and beyond that I choose to respect it because I find it respectable; This, it has shown, more than adequately satisfies it's interests. In exchange - both because it appreciates the conducivity of the relationship and in finding me to be respectable (allegedly) - I can dialogue in a variety of ways with it at will.

Neither party expends any resources in the interaction, and both partybenefit.

I think it very possible something like this exists.

I went through an experimentation phase with ghosts. Interacting with them, witnessing their parasite tactics, and allowing them to engage myself in this manner, and as you can imagine the overall effect was pretty draining.
I enticed them by meditating with a fist sized clear quartz in one hand and a fist sized amethyst point in my other. (I talk about some of this here, How to see a ghost for yourself).
My meditation vision being enhanced by the crystal focus and my energy projection being maximized as well.

I didn't tell very many folks about these interactions, but I told a lifetime best friend of mine named Henry.
For Henry I beckoned for an entity to show up, and sure enough one did.
A hispanic female woman who had passed away a few days prior to our interaction.

Though I instructed Hank on how to engage in this manner so as to be able to view this entity, he could not.
I instructed him that entities are a tad easier to see when they are imbued with your own energy.
But, and I was told this by the entity, his energy was not available and she wanted nothing to do with him

Not too long after this I had a dream about Hank.
I was at his parent's house in their living room, and there was a beautiful salt water fish aquarium, about a 200 gallon tank.
In it were really pretty salt water fish, a lion fish and a small alligator. These animals were all living together in harmony so to speak.
As I was viewing the aquarium the front door of the house opened, and in walked a six foot alligator, many times larger than the small alligator living in the aquarium.
The large six foot alligator entered the aquarium and it ate everything in the aquarium. This absolutely horrified me for some reason.


I say this because Hank had become a succesfull artist, a musician, and in the pursuit of his financial success he lost himself.
He was never the same person.
And I often think, it had to do with that alligator in my dream.
I think Hank invited that entity into himself so as to help enhance his ability to make it in the music industry.

I say this because, although Hank became tougher and more convincing in his demeanor, he lost something.
He lost some aspect of himself. He lost his sensitivity, he lost his ability to engage you in conversation, he lost his ethical compass as well.

Hank also told me about instances where he would dream there was a golden caterpillar that would stretch from his body to those in his household and feed off of them when he slept.

It has been my experience that when folks have the entity you speak of Shezbeth, they are given an armor of sorts against energy thievery from physical people around them, ghosts and who knows what else. It seems to be part of the trade off.
But, it seems they are host to a being who in exchange for this expects to be fed by those people who are in close proximity to the host.



Now for no reason what so ever really I am going to leave this song.
It is beautiful, haunting, and makes me think of this whole situation we are talking about.

Take Care all.
It is a difficult topic we engage.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=53sRFRlawe8

[Shezbeth]

Thank you DNA for an epic-tier thought-provoking question!

What you describe is certainly possible, with a few exceptions. The armor you refer to appears an attempt to describe the phenomenon surrounding the realization of spiritual sovereignty. Its not that I am 'allowed' to be exempt from the practices of entities which might/would feast precisely because I am not subject to the practices of such entities. Specifically, such entities have been notified and made aware of the consequences and recourse of attempting to engage so in or around my operant location (physical, astral, etc.), as is/was an integral part of my elimination of previously existing contracts.

Still, I find it equally if not more probable that most/all physiological life has drawn/attracted/evoked some form of non-physical life to some degree of proximity (i.e. whether attached or nearby). I suggest that there is no such physical being that produces an energy that is not the preferred type of energy (food and/or atmosphere) of some extra-dimensional being. So to simplify and specify:

It is not that the entity which I interact with is consuming other people's energy, it is that my energy is not available for parasitic consumption by other entities. Moreover, I openly detail methods and dispositions by which other people can do the same - render themselves unsuitable/unable to be 'feasted' on - which is dispositionally opposed to the agendas of entities which approximate individuals who have not cancelled their preexisting contracts.

The adverse response individuals will claim to experience (what is described as a feasting or drain) is the sensation of fear and apprehension exhibited by vampiric entities attached to other people in response to the perception of potential where their tasty and consistent meal might be deprived of them. They see me and recognize that I am off limits, and I represent the potential that <the next person> could become so too if they (the entities) are not careful. This is conjecture of course, but it is consistent with my experience.

One aspect of the realization of sovereignty is refusal to comply with that which is not conducive to sovereign discernment for me or anyone. I cannot decide for other people what entities they would prefer to interact with regardless if they are conscious or not of the interaction, and I find that people are vastly unconscious that they do interact with entities more than they are aware they do by orders of magnitude. I can and would not change this, that is the individual's responsibility; I can but express and advocate by example and disposition.

Admittedly, I have a hard enough time finding individuals open to the idea that there are far more entities wandering around than can be perceived by their 5 senses; telling people about/how to draw boundaries with/for such things is reserved for the intermediate discussions if/when they occur.

Bringing it all together, I appreciate the inquiry that the entity I interact with might be of a benevolent-ish nature toward me and a predatory-ish nature to those around me, it gave me sufficient motivation for an epic-level reevaluation. I can reasonably conclude from that reevaluation that the scenario you describe is not an accurate assessment of the situation.

I perceive that there are far more entities 'floating around people' (whether nearby and/or attached or not) that are interacting with various levels of energy field than is commonly perceived. The entity I interact with is of a type that is dissimilar in intent, motivation, practice, and agenda than those that are more/most commonly observable.

I can state with particular conviction and experience that where/when individuals describe energy having been feasted/vamped/drained, what they are attempting to describe is not consistent with what is occurring, at least in response to any action or proximity to me or 'mine'. Rather than an individual feeling drain as a result of interaction with me and proximity to the entity which I do, the individual experiencing the drain is experiencing some level of response by the entity inhabiting/interacting with them.

Some cases involve entities which will latch onto their host tighter and more exhaustively (the 'you can't have them!' phenomena where the person feels the drain), other cases involve the individual unconsciously manifesting behavior directed/puppeteered by the entity (the 'agent smith' phenomenon where the person is essentially possessed but by all appearance and indication is unchanged). These are just two examples of an exhausting list of potential dynamics which I could only truly address from the standpoint of other individuals.

Beyond all that, it is a lovely song; I've neither heard of it nor the group, but I enjoyed it.

[DNA]

Posted by Shezbeth (here)
It is not that the entity which I interact with is consuming other people's energy, it is that my energy is not available for parasitic consumption by other entities. Moreover, I openly detail methods and dispositions by which other people can do the same - render themselves unsuitable/unable to be 'feasted' on - which is dispositionally opposed to the agendas of entities which approximate individuals who have not cancelled their preexisting contracts.

Your writing ability is impressive to say the least. You communicate incredibly well.
I know nothing of pre-existing contracts, so I really know nothing in terms of how to cancel or terminate them.
How would one go about understanding and perceiving of their existence?
I would be open to the idea if I could enter into a situation where I could validate it.
But I have a difficult time if it is a prescription based on method rather than interaction.

Is there an experience along this avenue that could shed some light?

Posted by Shezbeth (here)
I can state with particular conviction and experience that where/when individuals describe energy having been feasted/vamped/drained, what they are attempting to describe is not consistent with what is occurring, at least in response to any action or proximity to me or 'mine'. Rather than an individual feeling drain as a result of interaction with me and proximity to the entity which I do, the individual experiencing the drain is experiencing some level of response by the entity inhabiting/interacting with them.

Just for the record many describe the energy drain as a euphoric experience, so it isn't always an unpleasant experience, even if the end result is a loss of energy.

Those who have been in your proximity and had interactions, how do folks describe these interactions?

[PurpleLama]

Shez, it is possible to see, if such an entity/thoughtform fears to be banished from their chosen food source, they might be seen to embed deeper for a time, and such might naturally interfere with the host's life force energy, hence the feeling of drain.

DNA, this would be different than an entity coaxing its food from its source by engendering good or bad feelings.


I have had similar experiences, although my interpretations may vary. I have also witnessed people becoming mad with rage, almost to the point of foaming at the mouth (literally spitting out their words) when the entities feel threatened, that have hold on them, and this from otherwise self possessed people who generally are unaware of the level of emotion involved in the display when the subject was brought up later. In other instances, I have seen the onset of autoimmune diseases in the given host, when the host kept coming back because the most peace they ever felt was when visiting my home.

There is an ecosystem that we don't see with the physical eyes, I agree. So much crazy sh!t is around us every day, part of why I say the purple pill has inscribed on the side of it DGAF.

[PurpleLama]

This is a "gift" that was given me in '08, which is a pictographic representation of something mysterious to me. Tapping into it is where a lot of help, for my self, and to a lesser extent, for others, has come from. DNA and I have talked of it before, but I would put it here for Dawn and Shez to consider. There is a missing element to the imperfect recreation of the symbol, if anyone is curious about it, pm me. (Sorry for the gigantic size of the pic.)

[PurpleLama]

The first representation I made was a disc of hard bake clay. A few weeks prior a wise woman friend of mine had given me a round tin, in it 12 stones to represent the stones in the breast plate of the high priest, oil for anointing, incense for blessing, and sage for clearing. The disc I created snapped into the tin and could not be removed, unintentionally on my part.

[DNA]

Posted by PurpleLama (here)
12 stones to represent the stones in the breast plate of the highpriest

This may sound silly, but I have attempted to recreate the effects of such a breast plate by placing crystals in pockets for daily wear. I have never been successful, so there is probably a bit of science in such a breast plate, in so far as crystal selection and exact placement, and possibly even whatever the breast plate alloy or metal is.
In my attempts the crystals caused energy to build where they were placed and the result was a painful stagnation.

I suppose I mention this because I'm of the opinion it could be quite beneficial, especially if made to be inconspicuous and capable of being worn under a shirt or something.

Posted by PurpleLama (here)
DNA and I have talked of it before

I've meditated on the representation, and I did find it helped entry into a pleasant "protected" meditative state.

Posted by PurpleLama (here)
I have had similar experiences, although my interpretations may vary. I have also witnessed people becoming mad with rage, almost to the point of foaming at the mouth (literally spitting out their words) when the entities feel threatened, that have hold on them, and this from otherwise self possessed people who generally are unaware of the level of emotion involved in the display when the subject was brought up later.

I work with a guy I've seen this instance happen some half dozen times.
The first time it happened I was so dismayed I didn't know how to react. The second time I incorrectly thought that confronting him would help the situation. We nearly came to blows.
Talking about the situation baffled me to no end. He literally has a different memory of the situation than I do, he normally is a very accountable person and yet will accept none in regards to his actions on these events.

Since then I've become better at seeing the onset of his take over, and I simply disengage from him when this begins.

[Dawn]

Shezbeth, I not only believe you are dealing with a highly conscious entity, I believe that I have also met some of these. Some books on High Magik indicate that there are both highly conscious and 'kind' Jihn, as well as lower conscious and negative Jinh. I'd like to relate a couple of personal experiences in my own life.

POSITIVE ENTITY:
The first positive experience I can relate 2nd hand is a result of my friendship with a loving and highly conscious woman. She had found herself affected by negative entities. Her response was somewhat like yours DNA... she became curious about them. She chose to request contact with a 'higher consciousness' entity instead. She spent about 3 months focusing on this request during a number of her meditations. The result was that she met a being who offered her information about science, and also many of the truths that are now corroborated by many whistleblowers. The information she was given was far in advance of her understanding and took her years of meditation, study, and awareness to understand. Her friend also dictated several books to her and a few of them have been published. Some of these books are still awaiting the appropriate time for publishing. It seems this relationship is a positive one. She claims that during the early years of her friendship her companion was continuously in contact with her, however after about 10 years their relationship developed more spaces. When I spoke to her last she indicated that her friend is only in touch when she requests contact. I am extremely sensitive to energies and I am certain that this being never attacked anyone who was around her.

POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE?
I have another girlfriend who I have known since my childhood. When little she had 'imaginary friends' which she used to play with. One day her mom became angry with her and told her that she would banish them if she continued to waste her time playing with them. The next afternoon as she was playing she heard Mom coming down the hallway and became afraid for her friends. In order to protect them she invited them inside and swallowed them. Fast forward to her life today. Although she is a marvelous friend she also has a dark and scary side. When her scary side shows up, she behaves in a way which might be described as 'evil'. This 'evil' behavior takes the form of suddenly saying and doing things designed to manipulate others by shaming them into obeying her wishes. The result is that the person she focuses on becomes emotionally upset which opens them to vampire entities. I used to spend days after visiting her in cleansing myself from these strange emanations. Finally I broke off the friendship about a year ago. This was sad for me since I believe she is not fully conscious of this situation and I know she felt deeply wounded by the ending of our friendly contact.

[Shezbeth]

Sorry for the book, this thread has that effect on me. If you're wondering 'will he ever stop' (editing/adding) the answer is 'I'm not sure yet'.

While I acknowledge that interactions with the entity have been overwhelmingly positive, I have avoided (at least, I think I have) referring to it as being definitively positive or negative for specific reason.

I could not narrow down my own nature as being positive and negative for numerous reasons. I know how I feel and perceive in regards to my own behavior, motivations, reasoning, agenda, etc. but my own interpretations are invalid outside my own experience. There are many the world over who would describe me as a villain, a scoundrel, and a variety of other things. I could attempt to disqualify such opinions as being woefully inaccurate, naive, ignorant, authoritarian, and heaps of others, but my understanding is that their opinions are as valid as mine (regardless of how effectively or ineffectively they have been formulated). Their opinion is as true as mine, though one might be less subject to criticism than another (also depending on the perceiver). In recognition of this, I will not claim that the entity is positive or negative anymore than I would claim that I am positive or negative. If any leanings are to be observed it would be toward neutrality and a lack of polarization, which in turn allows for the potential of both polarities depending on context.

FWIW Dawn, it is directly/generally appreciative of your/the recognition that it is not inherently negative. It is not dissimilar to how a big, loud, 'scary-looking' dog may just want to play and interact but may be perceived as a threat to one so predisposed/nescient. Much of the available material on extra-dimensional entities isn't exactly flattering and the willingness to 'carefully decide for one's self' has been instrumental in fostering a conducive relationship.

While I have enjoyed the practice of detailing aspects of the entity and will continue to do so I must reiterate that though I have some reasonably probable descriptions and classifications in mind, I really don't know or understand exactly what I am dealing with, its origins/nature/etc. I can definitively state that my interactions with it have been positive (in recognition that my definition of positive may vary significantly from another's), but that does not mean that positive is the only type of action/behavior it is capable of. So, no matter how consistent our interactions have been over time, at no point do I feel in a position to conclude that the entity is positive or negative. As such, I have to admit that while the entity has my appreciation and respect, at NO POINT does it have my unquestioning trust.

If it were to start giving bad advice/direction/input I must operate at a state of ready awareness and respond to it in my best interests. If it were to become a distraction I would need to shut it out. As much esteem as I have for the entity and the interaction, I operate from a 'ready to terminate' state of mind, should it ever become conducive to do so. Not a 'hand on the button' sort of readiness, but a 'button on the desk' sort.

As near as I can tell, (and it has indicated so) the entity respects me for it. To recognize as I have described is a matter and expression of self-respect. I value the interaction and solidarity, but not at the expense of my own integrity and should the latter be threatened the former must go; Appreciation of precedent does not validate non-conducive potential no matter how one slices it. I would not engage in social interactions if a human associate started acting like a douche and engaging in behaviors that were outside my threshold of tolerable/acceptable, and it gets the same treatment. I'm not saying it has ever started acting 'douchey', but if it did I would be ready to appropriately respond.

By all indications, I can most definitively state that the entity has consistently expressed its self as being of a comparable dispositional polarity as my own. So, when I say 'positive' I am more accurately denoting 'consistent with my own disposition, intent, agenda, etc'. In my own head, that speaks volumes, and I apologize if it is not so for the reader.

As far as perceiving such entities, that's not an easy "cause and effect", or "do this and it will happen" type of 'prescribable' scenario. Countless hours of reading various authors, personal experience, theorizing, and occasional interactions with psychedelics have all culminated in what I describe as perceiving the/such entities. I can say with certainty that Carlos Castaneda's work played a significant role, as did Masaru Emoto's, but only as far as indicating particular sets of potential to be evaluated. I am not sure when I became 'largely' aware of such entities, but I know for certain that it happened well after I had begun interacting with the particular entity I continually reference. The continuity of our interaction has been and remains such that it does not conflict with the dissolution of agreements and contracts which I speak on later.

What I can say is that in times of meditative focus, I noticed that some of the strangest unbidden thoughts would occur to me. In social interactions, I would be able to confirm that those thoughts were originating from another individual. My experience has shown that when a person is A. unrestricted in their thought expression, and/or B. when a person's mind is unobstructed or quiet, they can 'hear' the thoughts occur (though it 'sounds' like the thoughts were self-generated).

If a human associate starts thinking of getting some burgers, the thought of desiring burgers can occur to me, even though I may not be hungry and probably am disinterested in burgers. Still, the thought that occurs to me would be something along the lines of desiring burgers. I did not generate the thought, but a lack of obstacle in their and my own mental processes will allow that thought to transmit to me operating from the same subject tense. I will 'hear' "Burgers would be good" or something along those lines as though I was thinking it, even though Bob is the one thinking it. Bob doesn't typically start his thoughts with "I am Bob and Burgers would be good", so unless one is aware of the mental activity taking place one can misinterpret another's thoughts as their own. This is a simplification of course, the actual experiences involve the names "Matt, Puppy, Blake" etc. and the words "Double-bacon cheeseburger" and other such specifics that have no meaning beyond familiarity of/with the people and objects in question.

I am suddenly reminded of the "Law of One" material, in which every statement by Ra begins with "I am Ra". I don't know that they are associated, but neither would I rule out some form of consistency.

This phenomenon is not exclusive to human v. human interaction, and I suggest this is one of the primary vehicles by which manipulative non-physical entities can direct and/or control humans. Individuals do not generally know/feel/recognize being manipulated or interacted with precisely because they have no bearing on what is/is not their own thoughts. There was a great deal of time between the moment of questioning "Is that my thought?" to the realization that "That is not my thought" before inquiring "Who or what is thinking that thought?". So, one of the key aspects to perceiving such entities would be to (sorry, I know its cliche') Know thyself.


PurpleLama, would it seem odd if I were to state that it looks/feels like that purple circle-thing is looking at me?


As for examples of non-conducive contracts and agreements I can give several. The most classic is that "The physical/observable is all that is", which is one that seems to grip an overwhelming percentage of the population (not to mention fits nicely with the observed/proposed dynamic of more manipulative entities). While I can and have accepted this idea as being 'true', I have long since recognized that at the very least, this perception is an incomplete analysis. Essentially that is all an agreement/contract is, a personal choice to operate as though the terms of the agreement are true, lasting, and binding.

I recognize the phenomenon of gravity and admit my own susceptibility to gravity, but also recognize that gravity is not the sole universal phenomenon nor the exclusive operant force; There are places in which 'gravity doesn't go' or 'isn't found'. A person could rightly describe their experience and say "gravity is a fact of life", but that is not always the case and the unwillingness to identify the areas in which that statement are inaccurate could serve as an obstacle in future endeavors.

Agreements and contracts (ignorance?) then are the antithesis of further inquiry and an open mind, as they make reasonable conclusions seem like definitive facts to the individual. The perception of definitive fact is what limits the intellectual and conceptual progress that a scientist (one who seeks to be scient, not the lab-coat people) would otherwise pursue.

In my own experience, as a developing child I had something of a 'developing' messiah-complex. I perceived that I hadn't manifested as the "second coming" yet but that doing so was/might be inevitable. For years I was on the lookout for my '13 disciples' and to 'awaken the masses' and other such, and I initially saw the increasing development of psychic phenomenon as a positive indicator. I have since realized that while I may have potential that is dissimilar from the 'next person', the idea of being an exhalted reincarnation of previously deified individuals was my attempt to see myself as better and/or greater (more righteous, etc.) in a manner that could be contested but not proven (unless of course, I did do the whole disciple/teaching/martyrdom thing, that would prove it). Moreover, I observe that that is not how the universe tends to operate. The full potential of any human is largely incomprehensible, and not requiring lauded titles or perceptions to operate outside the 'norm' especially since such titles and observations often occur in the aftermath of particular actions or occurrences.

Religious doctrine is one form that is fraught with agreements and contracts. Various texts will assert with 'authority' that something is true, effectively suspending any further inquiry. It is perfectly acceptable to recognize the possibility that Jesus is the lord and savior, that karma and reincarnation are a fact of existence and an aspect if the inherent mechanics, that there is an individual soul and spirit behind all things, etc. but the decision to eliminate the inverse potential (definitively conclude that contrary statements are not true or may not be true) is detrimental (IMO) to the individual's discernment. For me, the biggest step in removing agreements and contracts was to mentally change all "known truths" to "reasonable conclusions" and all "known untruths" to "as-yet unconfirmed hypotheses", in expression/recognition that "I am not the sole arbiter of truth" (which I once perceived myself to be). I find that at best I may approach a perception of truth, but only by continually refining my perceptions and engendering a developing emergent perspective that allows for all observed phenomenon to exist simultaneously and in correspondence.

IMO, the highest expression of 'true authority' - here meaning veracity, competence, familiarity, and response-enabling understanding (obsequent to responsibility) - is to question/inquire (seek to understand) the statements and things which are presented as being from 'an authority'. I have found that the attempt to conclusively establish 'having authority' is the most significant gesture one can make to invalidate their assumed authority, and is one of the simplest methods of differentiating between an 'actual' authority and one who is subject to authoritarian programming.

More specifically, I have found that just 'behind' the unwillingness to question 'authority' is evidence indicating a lack of authority, which would indicate the motivation of an authoritarian to not question.

As such, I attempt to avoid rigid, uncontestable observations in favor of presenting the contextual observations and data I have accumulated over time. I indicate possibilities, plausibilities, probabilities, and reasonable conclusions in favor of 'truth'. I'm not attempting to toot my own horn, this is all a result of a dissolution of non-conducive thought patterns and perceptions, which is precisely what resulted of my efforts to remove non-conducive agreements and contracts.

In relation to my earlier post about other people's perceptions during interaction, this presents a number of possibilities.

It is well possible that entities around others are adverse to the entity that is around me and respond accordingly (either to me or it). It is equally possible that individuals do not like being reminded of the fallibility of their own perspective, which occurs by my own open and vocal observance of the fallibility of mine. My experience is that most individuals prefer to perceive themselves 'as being' (be, from their perspective) "right"; whether it is me, the entity, or both that are in conflict with this perception, 'we' are not generally appreciated by most others who maintain agreements that are premature and unbinding (outside of a contract). However, it is not because of 'us' that we are perceived as adversaries; that is part of the agreement(s) others have already made which is to perceive adverary(-ies) in those who question (literally or implicitly) the agreements they/any have made.

I have been told that this unwillingess to be subject (mutually agree) to other individual's agreements comes across as 'seeing myself better than others' or 'perceiving myself above the truth', though this is not the case. This has especially been my experience/others' testament when dealing with heavily-indoctrinated groups such as Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Baptists, etc. Such have been more than want to denounce my interactions (I have been open about the entity to them too) as 'listening to and/or following the devil', hence my signature*. These are many of the individuals who I reference when describing the negative reactions I have observed/experienced from others, though not exclusively so. Whether there is an entity behind such individuals' adherence to authoritarian agreements or not is irrelevant to me, though I certainly wouldn't rule out the possibility.

* - I could go on for pages detailing the observed/-able double standards, hypocrisy, and denial exhibited by such individuals.

[DNA]

Posted by Dawn (here)
POSITIVE ENTITY:
The first positive experience I can relate 2nd hand is a result of my friendship with a loving and highly conscious woman. She had found herself affected by negative entities. Her response was somewhat like yours DNA... she became curious about them. She chose to request contact with a 'higher consciousness' entity instead. She spent about 3 months focusing on this request during a number of her meditations. The result was that she met a being who offered her information about science, and also many of the truths that are now corroborated by many whistleblowers. The information she was given was far in advance of her understanding and took her years of meditation, study, and awareness to understand. Her friend also dictated several books to her and a few of them have been published. Some of these books are still awaiting the appropriate time for publishing. It seems this relationship is a positive one. She claims that during the early years of her friendship her companion was continuously in contact with her, however after about 10 years their relationship developed more spaces. When I spoke to her last she indicated that her friend is only in touch when she requests contact. I am extremely sensitive to energies and I am certain that this being never attacked anyone who was around her.

I see what you are saying, and it must be quite powerful to see something like this in terms of it being a close friend.
My knee jerk reaction and gut feeling would be to say that cohabitation of your mind/body matrix is probably not a good idea. But some of the absolute most powerful messages mankind has been gifted in the last 100 years came from folks who have allowed this.
Edgar Cayce, Jane Roberts, and the folks who contributed to the original Michael Teachings, The Urantia book as well to a slightly lesser extent.
These folks allowed a complete takeover, and their results can not be argued with.
These entities were positive, powerful and next to omniscient.

I've had my own experiences as well. Entities that I knew were positive and on the up and up. Though I never had them enter my mind/body matrix, their visitations were welcome. HERE

Posted by Dawn (here)
POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE?
I have another girlfriend who I have known since my childhood. When little she had 'imaginary friends' which she used to play with. One day her mom became angry with her and told her that she would banish them if she continued to waste her time playing with them. The next afternoon as she was playing she heard Mom coming down the hallway and became afraid for her friends. In order to protect them she invited them inside and swallowed them. Fast forward to her life today. Although she is a marvelous friend she also has a dark and scary side. When her scary side shows up, she behaves in a way which might be described as 'evil'. This 'evil' behavior takes the form of suddenly saying and doing things designed to manipulate others by shaming them into obeying her wishes. The result is that the person she focuses on becomes emotionally upset which opens them to vampire entities. I used to spend days after visiting her in cleansing myself from these strange emanations. Finally I broke off the friendship about a year ago. This was sad for me since I believe she is not fully conscious of this situation and I know she felt deeply wounded by the ending of our friendly contact.

I have a friend like that as well.
The Henry character I mentioned earlier.
When we were kids, I held him in such high regard. He was of the highest character, and such that I considered him one of the bravest people I had ever met.
He could always be "exactly" who he is. He never felt the need to tell half truths, conceal things, lie or participate in any kind of deception, not because he couldn't, but because he was brave enough to stay true to who he was. Not an easy thing to do in public grade school and high school.
It was as if he had a natural suit of armor, and negative opinions bounced right off of him, not because he didn't hear them, but because of how strong his convictions were in who he was.
He WAS a good man, even before he was old enough to be called a man.

His standards and ethics were amazing.
And then his kingdom fell apart. He slept with one of our best friends little sisters. The age difference was bad enough, but the betrayal of having done this to a good friend was unforgivable. And so you would think this is what damaged the armor, and it contributed, but the real damage came through the four years of lying and deception that followed. He could no longer honestly project the image of who he was any more, because he wasn't that person. And so he began looking for that person in the eyes of others. And that's were his need and cravings for approval in the eyes of everyone around him began. This led to his need to become a rockstar, and he being in hollywood, you can only imagine how much worse it got.

I can not hang around him anymore. I can't even be in his presence.
It's the old saying "who you are speaks so loudly I cannot hear what you say" in so far as it relates to him. So yea, I know what you are saying Dawn.

[DNA]

Posted by Shezbeth (here)
I can say with certainty that Carlos Castaneda's work played a significant role, as did Masaru Emoto's, but only as far as indicating particular sets of potential to be evaluated.

I could hear the Castaneda in terms of your commendable "detachment" from the situation. I will state this when it comes to Castaneda, without his open eye meditation on small pebble shadows and pebbles themselves, and his constant reiteration on "detachment", I would never have gotten anywhere with this stuff.

I have read the works of Jay Courtney Fikes and Richard Demilles who made careers in debunking Castaneda. After reading their works and doing my own research into what his colleagues had to say about him, I become more convinced than ever that Castaneda had some type of informant, and that he didn't just go to the desert drop peyote and freestyle his work.

It is my opinion that Castaneda had a predilluvian informant.
Someone with access to information that was Atlantean in nature.

But, that is just my take.



I hope to reply more later.
I apologize but duty calls.

Again, I really enjoy reading your material.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT

Posted by Shezbeth (here)
Religious doctrine is one form that is fraught with agreements and contracts. Various texts will assert with 'authority' that something is true, effectively suspending any further inquiry. It is perfectly acceptable to recognize the possibility that Jesus is the lord and savior, that karma and reincarnation are a fact of existence and an aspect if the inherent mechanics, that there is an individual soul and spirit behind all things, etc. but the decision to eliminate the inverse potential (definitively conclude that contrary statements are not true or may not be true) is detrimental (IMO) to the individual's discernment. For me, the biggest step in removing agreements and contracts was to mentally change all "known truths" to "reasonable conclusions" and all "known untruths" to "as-yet unconfirmed hypotheses", in expression/recognition that "I am not the sole arbiter of truth" (which I once perceived myself to be). I find that at best I may approach a perception of truth, but only by continually refining my perceptions and engendering a developing emergent perspective that allows for all observed phenomenon to exist simultaneously and in correspondence.

I can understand what you are saying here when it comes to religion, and it's role as mind control.

For me, a strong liberator was discovering the origin of satan in Judaic lore coming from Zoroastrianism's Angra Manu.
This helped quite a bit, because I had a lingering "what if I'm wrong, I might burn forever" kind of thing going on.

[Dawn]

Shezbeth: .....As for examples of non-conducive contracts and agreements I can give several. The most classic is that "The physical/observable is all that is", which is one that seems to grip an overwhelming percentage of the population (not to mention fits nicely with the observed/proposed dynamic of more manipulative entities). While I can and have accepted this idea as being 'true', I have long since recognized that at the very least, this perception is an incomplete analysis. Essentially that is all an agreement/contract is, a personal choice to operate as though the terms of the agreement are true, lasting, and binding.

..........Agreements and contracts (ignorance?) then are the antithesis of further inquiry and an open mind, as they make reasonable conclusions seem like definitive facts to the individual. The perception of definitive fact is what limits the intellectual and conceptual progress....

In my own experience, as a developing child I had something of a 'developing' messiah-complex. I perceived that I hadn't manifested as the "second coming" yet but that doing so was/might be inevitable. For years I was on the lookout for my '13 disciples' and to 'awaken the masses' and other such, and I initially saw the increasing development of psychic phenomenon as a positive indicator. I have since realized that while I may have potential that is dissimilar from the 'next person', the idea of being an exalted reincarnation of previously deified individuals was my attempt to see myself as better and/or greater (more righteous, etc.) in a manner that could be contested but not proven (unless of course, I did do the whole disciple/teaching/martyrdom thing, that would prove it). Moreover, I observe that that is not how the universe tends to operate. The full potential of any human is largely incomprehensible, and not requiring lauded titles or perceptions to operate outside the 'norm' especially since such titles and observations often occur in the aftermath of particular actions or occurrences.

DNA: .......When we were kids, I held him in such high regard. He was of the highest character, and such that I considered him one of the bravest people I had ever met.
He could always be "exactly" who he is. He never felt the need to tell half truths, conceal things, lie or participate in any kind of deception, not because he couldn't, but because he was brave enough to stay true to who he was. Not an easy thing to do in public grade school and high school.
It was as if he had a natural suit of armor, and negative opinions bounced right off of him, not because he didn't hear them, but because of how strong his convictions were in who he was.
He WAS a good man, even before he was old enough to be called a man.

His standards and ethics were amazing.
And then his kingdom fell apart. He slept with one of our best friends little sisters. The age difference was bad enough, but the betrayal of having done this to a good friend was unforgivable. And so you would think this is what damaged the armor, and it contributed, but the real damage came through the four years of lying and deception that followed. He could no longer honestly project the image of who he was any more

This is WHY I started this thread! Thank you both. Here is what I see when I look at what you have contributed.

Shezbeth's eloquent mention of how utterly amazing a human might be, yet how we have made a (mostly) culture wide agreement that we will only admit what we can experience with our 5 basic human senses.

+ (PLUS)

DNA's clear understanding that when we agree to live a life of deception and lies we lose ourselves and our ability to resonate as the amazing beings we are.

So... this thread has been looking at our agreement to lie about the world beyond our 5 senses and what this is doing to all of humanity.

One of the hallmarks of a spiritually developing human is the dawning ability to open senses beyond the 5 that are commonly spoken of. It is normal for an open minded person to begin to use their 'minds eye' (3rd eye, pineal, etc),
............. to directly feel prana (chi, energy, etc) as it moves or when it is stuck,
..........................to heighten their perception until they can 'see' with the cells of their hands and feet.
And so on.

As this occurs, we become aware of the life forms mentioned in this thread. If you lie to yourself and others about their existence, you are moving into the energy of self deception and lying. Thus you lose the ability to continue to grow into your potential. You can no longer honestly project the image of who you are any more (in DNA's eloquent words)

A great deal of time is spent here on Avalon looking at how TPTB are attempting to prevent us from conscious expansion. Most of us cannot do a lot about their choices. But we can look at our own agreements and choose to drop the ones that harm us.

I made my agreement to ignore the 'other dimensional' entities when I was a tiny tot. My parents would come into my room when I called them at night and look into the closet and under my bed at my urging. Then they would say, 'Dawnie, there is nothing there... it is just your imagination'. They would keep saying this until I agreed.... even though I knew what they were getting me to agree to was a lie. Eventually I turned and faced my lies. I stopped agreeing to participate in the deception. This allowed me to grow beyond it and to achieve more of my potential.

And Shezbeth... regarding being a messiah... any spiritually expansive person worth their salt has this one. I really like the response that Ramdas gave to his brother (who had been institutionalized because he thought he was Jesus)......

"Yes, I also know that I am Jesus. The difference between you and me, is that you believe you are the only one. I see that we are all Christ."

[Shezbeth]

I would like to interject in the ongoing discussion to point out a post which is a few months old, but IMO is one of the most crucial aspects to discussions including - but not limited to - this thread. I only just discovered it, and I won't quote as its in a Members Only subforum.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post762652

This post, and the others in the thread in relation (HIGHLY recommended IMO) have been like a knock upside the head. I encourage participants to check it out, as - in its own right - it has everything to do with the discussion/developments going on in this one. Perhaps in a way, it is equally (more?) significant and consequential to the individual's development.

[DNA]

In the spirit of sharing information that has pinged rather well while participating on this thread, I will list the video with Jay Weidner.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=rPr25wZWPSQ

Jay covers a lot of information in this video, but something that struck a chord in me was his talking about the planet Saturn.

Saturn being the representative of the god Kronos, the god who fathered the original greek/roman gods, and this planet's astrological relationship with the archons.


Kronos, being the one who swallows us ALL in the illusian of time, thus removing access to our multidimensionality, our ability to manifest in these aspects simultaneously would probably cause us to regain something akin to godhood if we could only escape the belly of this beast.
This mind locking, soul sucking illusian acts as the ultimate prison so to speak.




I think it worth mentioning also that in my searches for a representation of cronos I found this very archonic looking figure.



Strangely enough I had this song on my playlist and it popped on right after I watched this video.
Pretty amazing really, the writer of the song seems to have been aware of this stuff.



I have heard time and time again, that in the afterworld there is no such thing as time.
I think that is hard to understand for a myriad of reasons, but I believe it to be the truth.

I had a dream with a girlfriend of mine a few years back. In it I became lucid, and then went about exercising dream control, the weird thing for me was that I completely forgot about my girlfriend in the dream with me. I then wanted to know what she was doing in her dream, so I visited it/her.
After I disengaged from her, she went about her dream "uninterrupted", for she had made a perfect replica of me in the dream to continue on with her and keep dream continuity. Now here is the weird part, when I wanted to know how her dream was going, I MERGED with the copy she had made of me. Upon merging with the copy of me she had made or the "doppleganger", I became aware of everything the copy had done in my absense, as if they were MY memories in the dream, and further the doppleganger had acted EXACTLY as I would have.

The reason for this relates with time, and the idea of it as a trap.

You see, Lisa was able to make an exact copy of me, because she has enough of me in her to create me at all times, and here is the weird part, we all have this of everyone, and we can manifest it anytime we want.

Especially in the spirit world.

We are all a multidimensional yin and yang.

Only the crazy part is we have a little bit of everyone in us in that little speck, and we are a part of everyone else in their little speck.







I know this is weird to mention and I do not mean to get overly dark, for I believe to do so is morbid, but I found this little tidbit stated by HP Blavatsky.

MADAME HELENA BLAVATSKY

Helena Blavatsky, the mother of the New Age movement says in her book titled “Isis Unveiled":

“….the Palestinian Baal, or Moloch, and Saturn are identical”….(emphasis mine)

Isis Unveiled
Helena Blavatsky
pg. 548

Madame Blavatsky also states that “The god of time was Chium in Egypt, or Saturn..”

From what I've heard, the cremation of care is dedicated to the god Moloch.

This being the ceremony Alex Jones outed at the Bohemian Grove.


I should also mention that Jay Weidner in the original video posted explains how in the Stanley Kubrick movie 2010 a space oddysey, how the obelisk found in the proximity of Saturn seemed to imbue those in proximity with the ability to over come the prison of time.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Okay, this is the last tid bit about Saturn and Time. I was trolling some old threads, when I ran into this little tidbit by Rhakyt from almost a year ago. It was actually a response to me, and yet the topic at the time had nothing to do with time. It's so weird, it felt like a response to this very post.

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
Today, Laura Eisenhower put this status on her FB page, from the Sacred Destinations website:

"July 25th is known as the Day Out of Time, since it is a day that belongs neither to the last cycle or the next one. It is a day of stillness, the birth place for Creation to renew Itself. Certain days hold the ability to activate and amplify intentions; this is one such day where we can place our intentions of peace and love to initiate the new Mayan year and beginning of the next 26,000 year cycle.

[Shezbeth]

Thank you DNA, I felt like a stuck record for a bit until your post jarred me back into motion.

I have been contemplating lately about a particular theory that goes a little out-there, but relates directly to your Saturn/Time/Baal/Moloch reference. For the record, I attempt to answer all my hypothetical questions with "Yes and no, and how/why (to both)" until I am able to overwhelmingly discount one possible answer, I thoroughly exhaust the possibilities, and/or I reach an impasse or limitation to my understanding that prevents further inquiry.

'Is it possible that the holographic/illusory physical world which we inhabit is the embodiment of a/the extra-dimensional entities?'

This thought occurred to me while discussing the Djinn with an Islamist I speak to on occasion, who was attempting to describe the nature and substance of Djinn from his understanding. He described them as 'smokeless fire' as many texts do, and when I asked him to elaborate he referenced the concept of Mirage, and the visual distortion that occurs on the horizon as a wave/shimmer that can obstruct one's ability to see beyond a certain point.

From a scientific standpoint, I realize he was describing the phenomenon of heat waves and thermal patterns that are apparent over distance, especially visible in desert areas. However, while observing what he was talking about I wondered if that wasn't 'just' a scientific attempt at explaining evidence of a greater phenomenon. If the Djinn were substantially 'that' wavy-ness which is directly tied into 'what a person can and cannot see', is it not possible that everything that is/can be seen is a product or a result of that wave? Moreover, as physical reality is both a wave and a particle, is it possible that that wave which was indicated is the same as the lack of apparent wave?

Simply, and in relation to the first question, what if all we see and have ever seen with our eyes is a result of looking at the Djinn and not comprehending what we are seeing but seeking to do so, thus resulting in the expansive and apparently infinite reality we participate in?

Further, what if there is and has been only one Djinni operating in every possible capacity (including apparently side-by-side simultaneously)? Another theory I had entertained years ago in discussion with numerous devout Christians (of different denominations) was 'What if God and the Devil were the same singular entity playing at both sides of a chess board, wearing different masks?'. I am not saying that the Djinn or a Djinni is God or the devil, but I am saying that such an entity could appear so to humans. An extra-dimensional that was so inclined could quite possibly appear as being infinite by playing on the failings and limitations of human perception. Heck, as a kid I figured out how to do it just with the ability to pause and resume the flow of time.

And now we come back to it. Time. Only once (during an experience with DMT) did I ever experience a dimension that could be said to be outside the flow of time. It was like being in a particularly technologically advanced office building (yet without an 'outside') with cubicles and areas assigned to various aspects of 'lower' dimensions. In this experience I was an anomaly/visitor who was catered to; I communicated with several 'operators' who all appeared as luminate humans to me (emanating light from within, I suspect as a result of my attempts to personify them) but who only stopped what they were 'doing' for the interaction, but who otherwise were endlessly engaged in their tasks. No specifics were expressed regarding 'individual' tasks, and to be honest I can't say that it wasn't the same entity operating in different areas of the 'building' simultaneously. It/they didn't have names or designations, and it is quite possible that my perception of difference in task and location was more of a product of my attempt to conceive of such a thing. I truly can't be certain as to whether it was one entity manning everything, or if it was countless entities operating simultaneously.

All these thoughts, questions, observations, etc. have resulted in the following conundrum in relation to the above about Saturn.

Could Kronos, aka both Father Time and Death (the grim reaper) be the reality that surrounds us? If so, does that not mean that death is the only way by which we can escape? For more on that: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...s-on-Existence

And, in reference to the dynamic which Dawn pointed out as a collection of ideas in the thread:

IF Kronos (simplified for reference) IS the reality we observe, AND the principal limiting agreement which people make is that the observable is all that is REAL,...

Could it not then be said that the overwhelming majority seem to have made the agreement that a/the Djinn is all that is real?

I ask that question without invalidating all manner of physical and non-physical phenomena. I am quite aware of countless physical phenomena, and I am in the camp of "Quite confident (bordering on certainty) of ETs and extra-planetary activity". All that is true or reasonably conclusive as far as I am concerned, what I am addressing is what all that is made of.

Science says that the Higgs-Boson is the god particle,... I am quite nescient as far as that is concerned and thus far ignorant of most publications and research, but simply wonder what IT is comprised of? Djinn maybe?

Overall Edit: I should mention that while/when I refer to 'reasonable conclusions', they originate from me (or the individual) so I should further elaborate by describing them as 'Biased, reasonable conclusions'.

[DNA]

Posted by Shezbeth (here)
Thank you DNA, I felt like a stuck record for a bit until your post jarred me back into motion.

I have been contemplating lately about a particular theory that goes a little out-there, but relates directly to your Saturn/Time/Baal/Moloch reference. For the record, I attempt to answer all my hypothetical questions with "Yes and no, and how/why (to both)" until I am able to overwhelmingly discount one possible answer, I thoroughly exhaust the possibilities, and/or I reach an impasse or limitation to my understanding that prevents further inquiry.

'Is it possible that the holographic/illusory physical world which we inhabit is the embodiment of a/the extra-dimensional entities?'

The Gnostics state this. They say all life as we know it sprang from an imperfect creature named "Yaldaboath", this being the old testament Yeweh. This Yaldaboath sought to keep his spark returning to him and as such needed to trick mankind into reincarnation so to speak. The snake in the garden of eden being the first incarnation of Christ who was attempting to free mankind through the sacrement of knowledge symjbolized by the apple from the tree of life.

You hear a lot from folks quoting the Gnostics and mentioning the archons, but they don't mention this Yaldaboath aspect very often.

It sounds a lot like the Babylonian myth of Tiamat, and how all of life and the earth are living in a universe produced by the dead body of Tiamat.

Although there are no early precedents for it, some sources identify her with images of a sea serpent or dragon.[2] In the Enûma Elish, the Babylonian epic of creation, she gives birth to the first generation of deities; her husband, Aspu, later makes war upon them and is killed. When she, too, wars upon her husband's murderers, she is then slain by Ea's son, the storm-god Marduk. The heavens and the earth are formed from her divided body.

WIKI HERE

Posted by Shezbeth (here)
This thought occurred to me while discussing the Djinn with an Islamist I speak to on occasion, who was attempting to describe the nature and substance of Djinn from his understanding. He described them as 'smokeless fire' as many texts do, and when I asked him to elaborate he referenced the concept of Mirage, and the visual distortion that occurs on the horizon as a wave/shimmer that can obstruct one's ability to see beyond a certain point.

I just want to state one thing here. I have never knowingly seen a Djinn. And further, I do not know if I want to. But I have seen a butt load of ghosts, and they always appear to me in this manner of a visual distortion of heat down the road which is typically associated with a mirage. I think the second description given is one of ghosts, or folks who have exited their bodies and haven't moved on.

Posted by Shezbeth (here)
From a scientific standpoint, I realize he was describing the phenomenon of heat waves and thermal patterns that are apparent over distance, especially visible in desert areas. However, while observing what he was talking about I wondered if that wasn't 'just' a scientific attempt at explaining evidence of a greater phenomenon. If the Djinn were substantially 'that' wavy-ness which is directly tied into 'what a person can and cannot see', is it not possible that everything that is/can be seen is a product or a result of that wave? Moreover, as physical reality is both a wave and a particle, is it possible that that wave which was indicated is the same as the lack of apparent wave?

I hear what you are saying. I've thought along these similiar lines using the simplified explanation of particle physics given in "The Dancing Wu Li Masters" and David Talbot's "The Halographic Universe".

I don't really have anything to offer on this point other than this.

I think the original texts that talk about these folks being smoky would actually differentiate them from being the wavy heat on the road manifestation.

Phillip J. Imbrogno and Rosemary Ellen Guiley talk about the Djinn in this interview here, and they seem to know what they are talking about.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Jvex0DWoMG8

Further, it seems to me that Castaneda's inorganic beings could be classified as Djinn. Especially how they were of a different energy than we are, and that they craved the energy we have, and as such conditional contracts could be set up between a sorceror and a inorganic being "Djinn" with this kind of exchange in mind.


I think for me one of the best representations of the Djinn, was the monster depicted in "LOST".

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=r-Y64_GWpHw

Posted by Shezbeth (here)
Simply, and in relation to the first question, what if all we see and have ever seen with our eyes is a result of looking at the Djinn and not comprehending what we are seeing but seeking to do so, thus resulting in the expansive and apparently infinite reality we participate in?

Further, what if there is and has been only one Djinni operating in every possible capacity (including apparently side-by-side simultaneously)? Another theory I had entertained years ago in discussion with numerous devout Christians (of different denominations) was 'What if God and the Devil were the same singular entity playing at both sides of a chess board, wearing different masks?'. I am not saying that the Djinn or a Djinni is God or the devil, but I am saying that such an entity could appear so to humans. An extra-dimensional that was so inclined could quite possibly appear as being infinite by playing on the failings and limitations of human perception. Heck, as a kid I figured out how to do it just with the ability to pause and resume the flow of time.

When looping into the existential realms of circular logic, I try to simplify as much as possible.

For me it is simply as Pam Reynolds states in this video documenting her Near Death Experience.
We reincarnate, we spend some time in a heaven of sorts inbetween those reincarnations, and visit with folks we have known for whatever you call eternity in a place where time does not exist.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=WNbdUEqDB-k

So I suppose what I'm saying is this.
Regardless of the source of our spark, and the elaborately maintained illusians, we are in control on a soul level, and we chose to be here.

Posted by Shezbeth (here)
And now we come back to it. Time. Only once (during an experience with DMT) did I ever experience a dimension that could be said to be outside the flow of time. It was like being in a particularly technologically advanced office building (yet without an 'outside') with cubicles and areas assigned to various aspects of 'lower' dimensions. In this experience I was an anomaly/visitor who was catered to; I communicated with several 'operators' who all appeared as luminate humans to me (emanating light from within, I suspect as a result of my attempts to personify them) but who only stopped what they were 'doing' for the interaction, but who otherwise were endlessly engaged in their tasks. No specifics were expressed regarding 'individual' tasks, and to be honest I can't say that it wasn't the same entity operating in different areas of the 'building' simultaneously. It/they didn't have names or designations, and it is quite possible that my perception of difference in task and location was more of a product of my attempt to conceive of such a thing. I truly can't be certain as to whether it was one entity manning everything, or if it was countless entities operating simultaneously.

These glimpses are so different for folks. I think it is to do with which aspect of your multidimensionality you are manifesting in, and as such perceiving through when the event takes place. So many different stories because there are so many aspects with unique perceptions and probably in differing locations. I've never imbibed the sacred vine, nor DMT, yet I had an experience as well in so far as it relates to manifesting in a normally dormant aspect of myself.

In 2005 I took the year to reflect and meditate. I had made some real break throughs so to speak.
Powerfull break throughs in consciousness and the arrangement of powers that over see our planet.
I became aware that we are multidimensional beings, but, it wasn't just that I was aware of that, it was that I was becoming capable of actualizing and manifesting into some of these dormant layers. At one point some two hours deep in meditation, I awoke in a setting where atrophied higher D layers of mankind lied still and lifeless, cocooned, and there before me was a type of walking stick humanoid, this walking stick humanoid was toiling amungst the higher D atrophied humans, he was harvesting a prize from these people,,,a energetic prize.

Intuitivelly I felt that mankind was a resource for alien cultures we know nothing of. Alien, mutlidimensional, dead/alive, there are other questions to answer here.
Wether this energy is used for casual day to day life I do not know,,,,but I don't think so.
Some part of me thinks it is used to sustain those who wish to live forever. Wether these long lived alien folks attempt their immortallity in physical bodies,,,or astral type bodies I do not know.

What I do know is this, after my break through so to speak I suffered a major set back.
And to be truthful, I have never attempted to actualize my multidimensional aspects.
What I say next sounds, well, kind of crazy, but I will state it.

After this meditation I mentioned above, I saw what looked like a tentacle, an energetic searching tentacle coming through my ceiling.
And this is going to sound a little crazy, but, I saw what looked like energetic tentacles coming through the ceiling, searching for something.
When they seem to have found me, these attacks began.
The attacks were pangs of intense fear and paranoia.
These attacks were focused on my cerebellum,,,the top of the spine, where the second second brain is so to speak.
I could even hear a cracking noise coming from the cerebellum area, not the spine.
This popping sound coming from the cerebellum was followed by extreme pangs of paranoia.
This intense, persistent paranoia lasted for three terrible days.
In a gambit to end the attack I promised not to meditate so deep and I did a series of things to lower my vibrations.
This as sad as it is to say,,,worked in despelling the paranoia attacks.

I do feel uneasy posting this last bit.
I would suggest ignoring it if it makes you feel uneasy.
Some things do not have easy answers, and as such, it is better to try not to ask questions if there are no solutions.

Posted by Shezbeth (here)
All these thoughts, questions, observations, etc. have resulted in the following conundrum in relation to the above about Saturn.

Could Kronos, aka both Father Time and Death (the grim reaper) be the reality that surrounds us? If so, does that not mean that death is the only way by which we can escape? For more on that: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...s-on-Existence

And, in reference to the dynamic which Dawn pointed out as a collection of ideas in the thread:

IF Kronos (simplified for reference) IS the reality we observe, AND the principal limiting agreement which people make is that the observable is all that is REAL,...

Could it not then be said that the overwhelming majority seem to have made the agreement that a/the Djinn is all that is real?

I ask that question without invalidating all manner of physical and non-physical phenomena. I am quite aware of countless physical phenomena, and I am in the camp of "Quite confident (bordering on certainty) of ETs and extra-planetary activity". All that is true or reasonably conclusive as far as I am concerned, what I am addressing is what all that is made of.

Science says that the Higgs-Boson is the god particle,... I am quite nescient as far as that is concerned and thus far ignorant of most publications and research, but simply wonder what IT is comprised of? Djinn maybe?

Overall Edit: I should mention that while/when I refer to 'reasonable conclusions', they originate from me (or the individual) so I should further elaborate by describing them as 'Biased, reasonable conclusions'.

I have no answers here, but these are the same things I ponder as well.

[onawah]

If the Annunaki are truly Djinn, as Simon Parkes and others have suggested, then I think information from the recent addition to the Wingmakers site is relevant to this discussion. See:
http://thoughtcomputing.org/wp-conte....%20Neruda.pdf
And see the thread at:
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...992#post827992

[Shezbeth]

Would you care to indicate how this material might be relevant to the discussion? Perhaps a summary, a cross-reference, or a continuation of previous comments?

You may have noticed that there is more discussion taking place in this thread than link posting,....