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Thread: Where Do Our Thoughts Physically Exist?

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    Default Where Do Our Thoughts Physically Exist?




    Philosophers have wondered for ages how mind and matter relate to each other, and modern
    physics is chiming in on the debate. Here’s a look at a few theories about where or in what way
    our thoughts physically exist.




    Noosphere, Related to the Internet

    Teilhard de Chardin, a Jesuit priest and paleontologist, wrote of a conceptual “noosphere” in the first half of the 20th century. He predicted that at a future stage of humanity’s development a membrane containing our collective thoughts and experiences would envelope the world.

    In “The Phenomenon of Man,” he wrote: “Is this not like some great body which is being born—with its limbs, its nervous system, its perceptive organs, its memory—the body in fact of that great living Thing which had to come to fulfill the ambitions aroused in the reflective being by the newly acquired consciousness?”

    Many have made a connection between De Chardin’s noosphere and the Internet. Could the Internet be considered a realm in which our collective consciousness exists?



    Thoughts Exist in Other Physical Dimensions

    Bernard Carr, a professor of mathematics and astronomy at Queen Mary University of London, says our consciousness interacts with another dimension. Albert Einstein stated that there are at least four dimensions. The fourth dimension is time, or spacetime, since Einstein said space and time cannot be separated.

    Carr reasons that our physical sensors only show us a 3-dimensional universe, though there are actually at least four dimensions. What exists in the higher dimensions are entities we cannot touch with our physical sensors. He said that such entities must still have a type of space in which to exist.

    “The only non-physical entities in the universe of which we have any experience are mental ones, and … the existence of paranormal phenomena suggests that mental entities have to exist in some sort of space,” Carr wrote.



    Our Thoughts Transcend Time?

    Dean Radin, PhD, has done studies to show our thoughts may have an effect on physical reality, but it may not be in the present or future as we expect. It is possible that our thoughts in the future affect our past reality, he says.

    Radin is the chief scientist at the Institute of Noetic Sciences, a non-profit organization founded by Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar Mitchell and dedicated to consciousness research. Radin is also adjunct faculty in the department of psychology at Sonoma State University and he has held appointments at Princeton University and several Silicon Valley think-tanks among other institutions.

    He has tested the ability of human intention to affect physical reality using a random number generator (RNG). He is not the only scientist who has used an RNG to test mind-matter interaction, but he is unique in his focus on the ability of future intentions to affect the past.

    Most RNG tests focus on a forward-in-time, standard cause-effect model. A person has an intention and it is expected to affect the future result, or number generated. Radin opened his experiment to the idea that a future intention may affect past results and found “the observed results may be better modeled as a process running backwards in time from a future ‘target,’ rather than as a more complex process running forward in time trying to hit that target,” according to his study published in the Journal of Scientific Exploration in 2006.

    “Some forms of apparent MMI [mind-matter interaction] may involve processes that are more consistent with retrocausal ‘pulls’ from the future than with causal ‘pushes’ from the present.”





    Vast Realm Between Particles

    Stanford University Professor Emeritus William A. Tiller hypothesizes that our thoughts have a physical effect on a “new level of substance … which appears to function in the physical vacuum (the empty space between the fundamental electric particles that make up our normal electric atoms and molecules).”

    He says he has been able to measure this hitherto invisible substance, but only when it interacts with the substances we can conventionally measure. This interaction seems to occur when spurred by human intention, suggesting our thoughts physically exist in this realm.



    Source: http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/6597...sically-exist/



    peace...
    ~~ One foot in the Ancient World and the other in the Now ~~

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    Default Re: Where Do Our Thoughts Physically Exist?

    Many thoughts are floating around out there, somewhere, that our brains can pick up and process like they are our own. Many time it is difficult to discern our thoughts from 'theirs' - whoever 'they' are. Perhaps that is why we read of many near coincidences of inventions in history. Perhaps they are our own thoughts planted in the 'either' before we incarnate and to be picked up later.

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    Default Re: Where Do Our Thoughts Physically Exist?

    In my philosophy I think our thoughts origin from the centre of the Earth which is linked to the centre of the Sun while the Sun is again linked to the centre of the Galaxy, etc. Finally our thoughts origin from the centre of the Universe. Our brain is just a quantumreceiver-antenna. The fields of thought manifest as the mer-ka-ba around us, the Earth, the Sun and also the Galaxy.

    But that's only my way of thinking

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    Default Re: Where Do Our Thoughts Physically Exist?

    IMO:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum...riables_theory
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum...ement_swapping

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_extra_dimension
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimensi...nal_dimensions
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-theory

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mind
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_superposition
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle


    http://www.nbcnews.com/science/scien...ant-f1C8608274
    Quote the mammal brain can be trained to act on electrical signals from another animal.
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...tric-thoughts/



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_h...mation_paradox
    Quote Contents

    1 Principles in action
    2 Hawking radiation
    3 Main approaches to the solution of the paradox
    3.1 Information is irretrievably lost[9][10]
    3.2 Information gradually leaks out during the black-hole evaporation[9][10]
    3.3 Information suddenly escapes out during the final stage of black-hole evaporation[9][10]
    3.4 Information is stored in a Planck-sized remnant[9][10]
    3.5 Information is stored in a baby universe that separates from our own universe.[10][12]
    3.6 Information is encoded in the correlations between future and past[13][14]


    forgot to add: theory: closer we get to global nuclear war, the more synchronicity people will notice. more entanglement, more anomalies

    wow @ post beneath, lots of quote
    Last edited by Tesla_WTC_Solution; 10th May 2014 at 07:47.

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    Default Re: Where Do Our Thoughts Physically Exist?

    Many complex thoughts have a physical location. These include art works, which also tend to blend past, present and future in the one continuous moment of their being. Here is something I posted only a month ago.

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    A thought can be a powerful thing, and a work of art can be seen as a powerful thought. Paul Auster in The Red Book tells the story of a curator who spent several years preparing a Matisse exhibition, including quite a bit of time in New York City where he stayed in the same room at the Carlyle Hotel. When the exhibition was almost ready, all the works had been traced and permission gained to borrow them, all but one that is, the main one around which he had designed the entire show. It turned out that this painting had been sitting all along just above his head in New York, in the room upstairs. It makes you wonder whether the curator was designing the exhibition or this particular painting was designing the curator.
    Or take music: the thought is present in the score or on the CD, where past, present and future are all held together page after page and track after track. A piece of music is often recognizable from a very few notes – often just one chord – suggesting that it is hologrammatic in the sense that any single part somehow contains the whole.

    The thing is that thoughts like this tend to have multiple manifestations on their way to becoming memes.

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    -------

    "How many Eiffel Towers are there?"

    Well, this is quite tricky really, there are two in my garage, plastic ones my kids brought home

    And how many Statues of Liberty are there? Answer, about twenty originals, in various parts of the world.

    The matter then becomes one of removing memes that have passed their sellby date. This can be done in the physical – no previous experience in noospheric research required – by clearing up the planet. The thing is that this is not restricted to things like removing the plastic continent from the Pacific. It can include thoughts that have become enshrined in some of humanity’s most treasured possessions.

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    Life is about moving on, and the well-nigh indestructible pyramids are the ultimate in jamming on the brakes. That they have spawned a myriad theories and remain hypnotically fascinating merely serves to mask the fact that life is about moving on.

    We find the same thing with MH370: a moving object has been stopped in its tracks, and this too has spawned a myriad theories and has become hypnotically fascinating.

    Our museums are full of this sort of stuff: indeed that is what they are for. No sooner was the Berlin War pulled down than museums were seeking to purchase pieces for display. The most interesting bits had artwork on the western side.
    http://www.memorial-caen.fr/mur_de_b...expocybu06.htm

    So when the concrete starts crumbling, they will have to think about preserving it somehow. Sounds crazy? Well, it doesn’t sound quite so crazy when you consider that the same is happening with our art treasures; but maybe that’s a mistake. These artistic chunks of wall are highly paradoxical items, signifying freedom on a support that seen from the other side stood for an end to freedom. We cannot separate the one from the other, so for the sake of the one we keep the other as well. Much great art, being likewise a contestation of the wall on which it is mounted, bears similarities to a window, letting in light and air and the otherwise invisible. But it still marks the boundary between an inside and an outside. Total freedom means walking through a door and being outside, rather than depicting the outside from inside. Hence less art is more art.

    Take Leonardo da Vinci, perhaps the greatest artist of the last millennium and whose tiny output makes his works even more precious. And yet paradoxically, much of his work was unfinished. Vasari in his Lives of the Artists, tries to explain:
    Quote Clearly, it was because of his profound knowledge of painting that Leonardo started so many things without finishing them; for he was convinced that his hands, for all their skill, could never perfectly express the subtle and wonderful ideas of his imagination. Among his many interests was included the study of nature; he investigated the properties of plants and then observed the motions of the heavens, the path of the moon, and the course of the sun.
    This segment contains a paradox and an apparent non sequitur. It is paradoxical for a ‘profound knowledge of painting’ to lead to unfinished work; and what has his imagination to do with nature after close examination? Answer: nature is profoundly unfinished and painting in its adequate relationship to nature will also be so.

    Take a work that has spawned a myriad theories and remains hypnotically fascinating (it cropped up again only the other day on this forum): The Last Supper. I am going to offer one of my own: you read it here first. Here is Vasari:

    Quote Leonardo also executed in Milan, for the Dominicans of Santa Maria delle Grazie, a marvelous and beautiful painting of the Last Supper. Having depicted the heads of the Apostles full of splendour and majesty, he deliberately left the head of Christ unfinished, convinced he would fail to give it the divine spirituality it demands. This all but finished work has ever since been held in the greatest veneration by the Milanese and others. In it Leonardo brilliantly succeeded in envisaging and reproducing the tormented anxiety of the Apostles to know who had betrayed their master; so in their faces one can read the emotions of love, dismay, and anger, or rather sorrow, at their failure to grasp the meaning of Christ. And this excites no less admiration than the contrasted spectacle of the obstinacy, hatred, and treachery in the face of Judas or, indeed, than the incredible diligence with which every detail of the work was executed. The texture of the very cloth on the table is counterfeited so cunningly that the linen itself could not look more realistic.
    It is said that the prior used to keep pressing Leonardo, in the most importune way, to hurry up and finish the work, because he was puzzled by Leonardo’s habit of sometimes spending half a day at a time contemplating what he had done so far; if the prior had had his way, Leonardo would have toiled like one of the labourers hoeing in the garden and never put his brush down for a moment. Not satisfied with this, the duke was constrained to send for Leonardo and very tactfully, question him about the painting, although he showed perfectly well that he was only doing so because of the prior’s insistence. Leonardo, knowing he was dealing with a prince of acute and discerning intelligence, was willing (as he never had been with the prior) to explain his mind at length; and so he talked to the duke for a long time about the art of painting. He explained that men of genius sometimes accomplish most when they work the least; for, he added, they are thinking out inventions and forming in their minds the perfect ideas which they subsequently express and reproduce with their hands. Leonardo then said that he still had two heads to paint: the head of Christ was one, and for this he was unwilling to look for any human model, nor did he dare suppose that his imagination could conceive the beauty and divine grace that properly belonged to the incarnate Deity. Then, he said, he had yet to do the head of Judas, and this troubled him since he did not think he could imagine all the features that would form the countenance of a man who, despite all the blessings he had been given, could so cruelly steel his will to betray his own master and the Creator of the world. However, added Leonardo, he would try to find a model for Judas, and if he did not succeed in doing so, why then he was not without the head of that tactless and importunate prior. The duke roared with laughter at this and said that Leonardo had every reason in the world for saying so. The unfortunate prior retired in confusion to worry the labourers working in his garden, and he left off worrying Leonardo, who skilfully finished the head of Judas and made it seem the very embodiment of treachery and inhumanity. The head of Christ remained, as was said, unfinished.
    This story suggests a number of observations:
    · The usual ‘love & light’ approach to the subject is the Last Supper as the institution of the Eucharist, which may be seen as an approximation of the immaterial Christ presence in the physical. Instead of this, Leonardo seems to be focussing on the dark conspiracy side: the moment of betrayal. No one ever seems to comment on this strange fact.
    · The unfinished in this painting denotes the spiritual, invisible aspect of nature: Christ’s features; while the finished denotes the physical, and especially in its betrayal of the spiritual. At the instant captured in the picture, everyone has a conscience to examine as a possible or partial traitor. The only fully clear conscience belongs to one whose head is only sketched in.
    · The spiritual applied to the art of painting involves lengthy meditation, studying what has been done so far. The physical viewing of this process leads to impatience at seeing a man watching paint dry!
    · This physical view of the process is the ultimate betrayal, hence the viewer might lend his features to a passable portrayal of Judas. In other words, betrayal and portrayal do not just sound similar, they are almost synonymous.
    At this point, we may factor in what we know from elsewhere, namely the fact that the painting started deteriorating almost immediately upon completion and why. Fresco painting like this requires a special technique. To adhere properly, the paint must be applied to wet plaster, and as plaster dries very quickly, the painting is divided up into squares, and the painter still has to work very fast to finish one square before it dries. Clearly the prior was upset because even he could see that Leonardo was going about it in the wrong way and asking for trouble by deliberately taking his time.

    Since it is hard to imagine one of the greatest artists the world has seen guilty of such gross incompetence, and in a sense betraying his art, we need to find another explanation that takes into account the presence of a genius at work. This explanation follows fairly logically from all the above, and would be more obvious if it didn’t sound quite so crazy. Simply this: the painting was designed not to last. Christ’s unpainted other-worldly features would disappear first; his followers’ would naturally take a little longer, but possibly no longer than their real-life counterparts. We need to remember this was the monks’ refectory (dining hall), and the scene would be like adding on a table at the end of the room. In other words, the monks would feel they were themselves apostles participating in that last supper, especially if they saw their own features in them. Eventually the painted bread and wine would disappear too, leaving just the real bread and wine in the here and now. There is something slightly heretical about showing the effacement of the betrayal in the dining-room rather than the chapel, sending a very different message from the love & light version of the Eucharist celebrated there. And yet, the whole point of experiencing Christ, his presence, death and ascension, may be said to be learning to see his physical absence as an abiding presence.

    That is exactly what Leonardo’s ephemeral pigments were designed to show, and that is why all subsequent restorations were dreadfully botched and ultimately a betrayal in principle. The painting was intended to reenact that mystery by itself fading away, and for all the subsequent daubs, it has largely succeeded in that intention.

    What then should be done with The Last Supper? Let it fade into nothingness at last. No more betrayal. [Sacrilege!]

    And the pyramids? Letting them crumble has taken too long, and so has quarrying building materials. Maybe a few tons of TNT? Nah, no violence. Let’s just forget the whole thing and move on shall we? [Coverup!]

    Some day we may get better at disappearing unwanted items. We are not very good at garbage disposal generally and have a word for stuff that is altogether beyond us at this time: ultimate waste. The pyramids are the ultimate cultural waste we don’t want to throw out; instead we are piling up more and drowning under it all. We need to learn to do the opposite. So far we seem capable of shifting a Boeing, which was quite impressive, except that it was by no means garbage. We can do better than that.
    You could consider a cancer as the physical manifestation of some negative thought, just as a building is the manifestation of some architect’s design. Or a birthday card is the manifestation of someone’s kind thought.

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    Default Re: Where Do Our Thoughts Physically Exist?

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)

    You could consider a cancer as the physical manifestation of some negative thought, just as a building is the manifestation of some architect’s design. Or a birthday card is the manifestation of someone’s kind thought.
    Thats why some thoughts can be deadly, especially negative ones when people wish others ill, some people can manifest thoughts into reality at will too, good or bad.
    the soul mind trap http://tinyurl.com/ph7ajgb
    we live in a 3D matrix 3rd dimensional prison, awake! and never forget! so you shall no longer be imprisoned! escape the reincarnation lunar soul trap!

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    Default Re: Where Do Our Thoughts Physically Exist?

    Quote Posted by Skywizard (here)
    [...]

    ... This interaction seems to occur when spurred by human intention, suggesting our thoughts physically exist in this realm.
    That's quite a jump for a jumping to conclusion...

    All that can be said is that their effect/interaction with physical matter or its constituents/building "blocs" can be observed.

    Then it depends on the definition of "physical" in "physically existing in this realm."

    The apt analogy is that of radio waves, they can be emitted and received (effect/interaction) but... where are they?

    All that can be inferred by analogy with wave propagation on water is that these radio waves constitute an ever expanding wave front away from the transmitter.

    Can one catch those radio waves and stick them in a jar for preserves?

    Maybe in some sort of superconductor circuit.

    In the latter sense, physical matter could be akin to "frozen, fixed, stubborn thoughts" in a looping circuit with limited motion or "agitation" (heat), always the same and repeated ad infinitum; like a stage hypnotist's subject always performing and repeating the same silly action on the hypnotist cue...

    Now, where things become very, very interesting is: who or what EMITS a thought that becomes interactive with the physical realm, even if of the invisible electromagnetic spectrum?

    What could reasonably be inferred is that the emitter/transmitter is tuned on a harmonic scale/frequency of the solid physical universe in order to be able to interact with it.

    Then, I would expect and suspect such emitter/transmitter for being responsible for the "frozen, fixed, stubborn thoughts" constituting our solid, physical realm. Wouldn't that be quite some "magician?"

    Imagine now that a bunch of those magicians got together and dreamt up a physical universe with galaxies of stars and planets... co-creator of one's reality... so to speak... and then got a whole bunch of others to agree that, that's the way it is... then, those co-creators got hoisted with their own petard and got caught in the lower harmonics of their own making and... here we are... the effect of our own manifestations...

    Now, to address the investigations of people bent on turning time lines into pretzels like Dean Radin, well, have a look at this thread:

    To The Dreamers Of This And Other Worlds...

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    Default Re: Where Do Our Thoughts Physically Exist?

    Edgar Cayce, the sleeping prophet, spoke of thought forms or thought patterns. In this article his son, Hugh Lynn, explains thought forms and the "the forces"Although Edgar definitely filtered the information he received in trance with the prism of Christianity I find this information very enlightening.





    At Tuesday morning Work Readings discussion group in Virginia Beach on January 7, 1978, Hugh Lynn Cayce was asked to describe what he thought was meant throughout the Edgar Cayce readings by "The Forces," such as referred to in Reading 254-25:

    "First, locate the residence, getting in place as given. Then will come the means necessary for making the proper location. The Forces will provide same—indirectly." (Edgar Cayce reading 254-25)


    As I understand "The Forces," I think we have to go back to the beginning, really. The original plan, the original purpose in the mind and heart of God for the creation of the soul that was set forth in the creation, in the original plan, as is indicated in one place in the readings, "stamped on every soul," is the image of the Christ Consciousness which was given by God and only needs to be awakened by our wills, in application. The will was given to Man as part of God's original creation: The Divine Mind, the Divine Spirit and the Divine Will. That's a part of God that makes up the soul as it was created.

    As man, as the souls began to express themselves in different planes of consciousness by creating thought forms. This is clearly defined in the readings as "thought patterns" that were created like what God had created. Man saw what God had created and man, with his creative mind, created a form like that. As he created it, he became involved in it. As a [metaphor], we might say that man reaches into a tar barrel, trying to shape an image with his hand. He gets caught; trapped there by what he has created. He won't turn loose of it and he can't pull it out. It's almost like the old symbol of the monkey that wants the piece of fruit that is in the jar, and as long as he holds the piece of fruit in his hand he can't pull his hand out of the jar. The thought forms that man became hardened and trapped a part of the soul energy in the earth.

    These thought forms gradually hardened into bodies in three-dimensional expression. Then man's mind began to create thought forms at the flesh level where the body becomes an energy pattern and a thought form. On other levels of consciousness, man built a finer physical body which is the one we use when we die. That doppelganger is also a thought form and it relates to matter. The readings say we're free of the flesh when we move in that body, but we're not free of matter. It still is made up of finer, faster moving, material thought processes.

    forces 08032012Every plane has thought forms created by man; energy patterns that had withdrawn from one shell and were moving in consciousness. These thought forms are "the forces" that are spoken of in the readings; these thought form forces combined with the original forces and pattern of God's purpose for the souls in the earth and in all creation. So, when man builds patterns that are opposed to God's will, he creates negative, rebellious forces to which he attunes. He also builds cooperative forces in patience and love and long-suffering. The readings reiterate these over and over again; so, these forces that he builds become good.

    As groups of people, groups of souls, come into the earth in cycles, they develop agreement in trying to move the constructive forces and to return to the same consciousness that God had for man: the Christ Consciousness, in other words, in a broad universal sense. So, in one incarnation, they developed a plan, a pattern to express love and service and they began to carry on a work that is in accord with God's love. Those thought forms become forces. Those patterns of thought, those purposes, become forces in the earth for man to draw on.

    We draw on these forces of thought forms, these purposes and ideals and goals that have been set. When they're in accord with God's purposes, they create help and the patterns of healing, and good is accomplished. But when we tune into the rebellious parts that we have created, we become rebellious and are in tune with the negative forces. They are of our creation, but they were also of God's creation in the beginning. In our slowed-down state of consciousness, we lost track of the forces for good that God created. We don't see angelic forces as often, apparently, as the Bible people used to see them.

    Hugh Lynn Cayce - podcast 1-011Hugh Lynn Cayce(1907-1982) was the eldest son of Edgar Cayce. He turned the A.R.E. into an organization of international renown and developed widespread recognition and acceptance of subjects such as psychical research, dream analysis, meditation, and spiritual development. He received critical praise for his first book, Venture Inward, for which A.R.E.'s Member magazine is named. Members can read the full article and the companion piece, What are the Creative Forces by Robert H. Schor i

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    Default Re: Where Do Our Thoughts Physically Exist?

    Quote Posted by wnlight (here)
    Many thoughts are floating around out there, somewhere, that our brains can pick up and process like they are our own. Many time it is difficult to discern our thoughts from 'theirs' - whoever 'they' are. Perhaps that is why we read of many near coincidences of inventions in history. Perhaps they are our own thoughts planted in the 'either' before we incarnate and to be picked up later.
    Not just within inventions. There have been cases of people writing uncannily similar pieces of story, poetry, and music, at near the same time, separated by continents.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: Where Do Our Thoughts Physically Exist?

    The ancient pyramids may be the biggest expression of thought on the the planet, physical structures created all over the world (China, Greece, Sudan, Peru, Egypt and other countries) by people that had no chance to physically communicate with each other.

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    Default Re: Where Do Our Thoughts Physically Exist?

    Quote Posted by rgray222 (here)
    by people that had no chance to physically communicate with each other.
    Are you sure?
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

  21. The Following User Says Thank You to Wind For This Post:

    Skywizard (11th May 2014)

  22. Link to Post #12
    Ecuador Honored, Retired Member. Warren passed on 2 July, 2020.
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    Default Re: Where Do Our Thoughts Physically Exist?

    We think much the same, Red Skywalker.

  23. Link to Post #13
    Ecuador Honored, Retired Member. Warren passed on 2 July, 2020.
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    Default Re: Where Do Our Thoughts Physically Exist?

    I just want to know where are the thoughts that I have lost? You know - those senior moments. Such as why did I get up and walk into the study? I am standing there, wondering. LOL

    You young kids won't understand this.

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