In the Shadow of Mammon: Are You Ready to Be Free of It?

[dim]

Money was never the problem, remove it and watch how fast we can find another thing to attach to it
and cause all kinds of wars and misery
there's something much deeper that taints the human heart
money is an excuse only, anything else would be suffice also,
wouldn't surprise me if we start assaulting each other upon free energy for example
...yes, ever on free, abundant things, doesn't have to be any natural or artificial scarcity at all,
because that's what we do, we break balance
and until the very core of the problem is addressed - identification with form - there's little hope.
If there's any.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Posted by dim (here)
Money was never the problem, remove it and watch how fast we can find another thing to attach to it
and cause all kinds of wars and misery
there's something much deeper that taints the human heart
money is an excuse only, anything else would be suffice also,
wouldn't surprise me if we start assaulting each other upon free energy for example
...yes, ever on free, abundant things, doesn't have to be any natural or artificial scarcity at all,
because that's what we do, we break balance
and until the very core of the problem is addressed - identification with form - there's little hope.
If there's any.

Think about what you are saying.

What happens during war?
Force is used to obtain things that formerly required trade.

In ultra-capitalistic environments, the force required to topple the dominant financial powers is extreme.
And at the other end of the spectrum is the noble savage, who sees capitalism before it matures into the monster, mistakes it for an easy out --
trading his best dog for a crate of whiskey bottles, trading his wife for a gun - etc.

Since for the duration of presently acknowledged human history, we have NEVER been without currency, without a financial system able to be manipulated from above by abusive usurers and CEO type A overlords (there has always been "something" above the others) and evil religions, etc., we can't know what humans would do without the pressures inflicted by currency.

One of the problems is people with extra money, actually -- one PA user said he just bought a monitor from Korea thanks to currency.
That's great -- I on the other hand don't know how my next load of laundry will be washed -- some people are actually that poor, even in America.
I could barely care less about where monitors are purchased, or the reasons why men kill each other -- because of poverty and suffering, I am willing to consider a different system. Of course those who enjoy the "top" of the dogpile of capitalism will say how lazy people like me are, that disabled folks and addicts etc. should just hurry up and die, like Scrooge says to his nephew -- "decrease the surplus population" who at the same time MADE YOU RICH in the first place -- see how that works?




Anyhow, I am not angry, just kind of disappointed.

War, sex, violence, etc. totally separate issues from money.
But money helps drive these insane needs.
People buy prostitutes, they buy guns. With that extra money that would be better feeding someone else.
Rather than buying that dirty sex or needless gun --

From here arises the whole argument of whether free choice makes sense if people are going to act like animals no matter how much education is available to them.

As soon as some of these types of people get a little extra money, they lose interest in other things, like literature, science, arts, bettering the world.
People who don't suffer tend not to care overmuch about other people. And the sight of suffering scares them enough that it causes them to be selfish, i.e. to assault others with their excess -- loud fancy cars, flashy clothes, drunken weekend debacles with "friends" -- all the things poor people can't have and don't need.

Yet these excesses and depravities are lauded as being the reward of wealth.
Prostitutes. Drugs. Drunken nights out with fake friends and fake boobs. Oscars. Red carpets.


All those things are here because of money.

Radio towers. Bridges. Yes, even toilets.
All put there for one reason, to keep the spice (currency) flowing through the universe.

Because without all these "conveniences and benefits" the people would take their money somewhere else.
Which is why we wage war in poor countries instead of inviting our enemies to our front yard to fight things out.
We try to keep the suffering, the war, the violence and rape, etc. in OTHER people's countries, so that the wealthy and middle class (and the trailer trash too) in America can keep on having a good old time at the expense of the world.


When we stop buying illegal blood diamonds, tantalum, i.e. terrorist loot -- things like that -- charcoal from parks where rangers get shot -- Chinese wealthy buying illegal ivory from intelligent elephants killed by poachers, etc -- when people stop going to Sea World with their god damned dirty money to watch the dolphin and whale slaves perform for their next meal in front of the evil humans, etc.

then we can talk about what causes war and suffering.

because no one will put their cell phones, remotes, private parts, the mouse, etc. down long enough to care about the less fortunate enough to ensure that war isn't taken to THEIR front yard because WE have all the money.

sigh.

i can't believe i have to explain this concept to PA.
of all groups of people on earth you should understand this.


p.s. so Dim, lol, you would rather not have free energy in the first place? you assume we would just keep fighting instead of settling other planets....


it's kind of hard to get to Orion on a tank of petrol.

p.p.s. why do drug dealers exist? not just to feed their own addictions -- they also do it for the money. like lawyers, rock stars, doctors, judges, preachers, presidents, etc.







p.p.p.s. can anyone explain why one of my actual doctor prescriptions in 2012 costs more than a cocaine addict's budget?? because the company peddling the pills makes more money ensuring only about 10% of BP/ASD patients are treated.
I had to face the idea of going off meds when the risks of quitting psych meds include suicide.

because of money -- lives are lost every day.
Can't afford the effective treatments? welcome to chemo.

(I guess Dickens was an idiot and I am just WRONG)



p.s. look at how the chains are depicted in the Muppets, not just one big millstone or a ball n chain, it's MANY CHAINS -- connected to MANY THINGS i.e. all aspects of life tied to money have dragged them into Hell.. whether hell is real or not, the people still suffered.

there is a psychic price to pay for every convenience we steal from others.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Social commentary

Dickens's novels were, among other things, works of social commentary. He was a fierce critic of the poverty and social stratification of Victorian society. In a New York address, he expressed his belief that "Virtue shows quite as well in rags and patches as she does in purple and fine linen".[112] Dickens's second novel, Oliver Twist (1839), shocked readers with its images of poverty and crime: it destroyed middle class polemics about criminals, making impossible any pretence to ignorance about what poverty entailed.[113][114]

because I have food tonight, i can sit here and debate this. i can smile and laugh if i choose and treat the subject of money and the lack of it as if we are just entertaining ourselves.

but try telling THESE PEOPLE that money's not the problem:




a picture says a lot more than i can.




and homeless veterans of course

i am sure they deserved it somehow...




funny how murderers and rapists get caught every day,
small time dealers and warlords,

but cases such as this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Madoff

are so rare and few and far between,
when we know that even the Fed Reserve is similarly evil...

lol

because the banks own the courts, yet another problem,
we can't even fight back...

lol

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Paul (here)
Money is a vital mechanism of human civilization on the scale that we know it, with an economy depending on human labor (both intellectual and physical) to the great extent that our current civilization is so dependent.

We can't do without it (without an incredible transformation of our civilizations economy), and we can't do with it (given that it provides the bastards in power the primary key to their power.)

It's a quandary of the first order.

I suspect that the solution will come when we have an economy that doesn't depend on human labor .

Wade Frazier and others have made a persuasive case that our civilization needs a primary energy source that is abundant, very low cost, and harmless to the environment.

I suspect that this is only part of the change that's needed.

We need to go further,
replacing essentially all necessary uses of manual, menial or mundane human physical or mental labor
with automation, performed by soul-less automatons, computers, automated machines, and such.

Once human endeavor is no longer a significant part of the economics of our civilization required for even a subsistence level of existence, then there will no longer be an economic motive to enslave, whether by debt or by force, most of humanity. Combine this with the removal of the economic motives for controlling large sectors of land and ocean for their mineral rights (e.g. replacing petro with zero point energy) and we'll be in a quite different situation.

I realize that this view will not likely find much agreement .

[araucaria]

On the subject of currency, taken rather literally, there is a novella by Jorge-Luis Borges, El Otro (The Other), in which he describes a conversation with his much younger self. His way of explaining how he must have imagined the whole thing actually suggests the exact opposite, namely that it was for real. They are both sitting by a river, but different rivers on different continents – his younger self by the Rhône in Geneva, Switzerland in c.1918, while the older man is by the River Charles in Boston, Mass.

An exchange of money between them is suggested as proof that this meeting is really taking place. The younger man produces a silver coin whose lasting value lies in its content. But when his elder pulls out a dollar bill dated 1964, he tears it up and throws it in the river as being totally worthless, which of course it would have been back in 1918. A banknote is a promise to pay and, whatever it may be worth after its issue it cannot be backdated. The river metaphor of course goes all the back to Heraclitus: you cannot step in the same river twice, still less move upstream. You can step in a river near its source when young, and in a river near its mouth when old, but it is another river. A lump of silver will gradually make its way downstream, a dollar bill much faster, but never upstream.

In other words, money is bound by time, but we are not. Borges pretends to slip out of this problem by saying he was told afterwards that dollar bills are undated and so he must have dreamed the whole encounter. But of course, dollar bills are dated, implying that is was no dream. It would have been a dream of the younger man, or otherwise he would have remembered it. Hence with the currency system, you cannot go back in time to who you were, and the connection with who you will become is severed even more radically. And yet the experience is there to prove that this is not how it should work. We have come to the point where we have no past at all, and no future. Money is certainly one of the keystones in this construction.

[aheb]

one of the ways that we are trapped is by our assumptions, we think that we know what money or capitalism is. A thing that I find very amusing is the amount of lefties who confuse fascism with racism or who don't understand that hitler was a socialist, and it's the same with money. I found these videos, they are a series very interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyV0OfU3-FU

there are not many people who realise that banks create money out of thin air and then charge people interest on something that they didn't have in the first place, or that the federal reserve is a private company operated by the banks ( although people are starting to realise that now) In the US the US taxpayer pays the federal reserve to print money for which they are charged interest. We have a debt based Fractional reserve banking system, and frankly it is on it's last legs.

[yelik]

Tauren
Good description, most people are probably too busy fitting into the capitalist system to have the time to fully understand what is going on, the sheep of the world. Nevertheless trying asking anyone to live without it. To instigate change in the world the banking system needs radical reform, then the people need to pressurise governments around the world for the release of free energy. Once you move those tools of control the elites will be no more. I believe we, the Avalon members, should compile a letter outlining all our concerns about these specific matters which should be sent to all Government leaders and politicians. I am now a person of interest!

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Paul and Arucacia said some good things, as did the ones below --

Paul mentioned free energy and automation yielding up space for humans, possibly having potential to do away with boundaries, once people realize that energy is abundant, they are not trapped here nor there, etc.



Arucacia does a good job explaining the predicament we've been placed in regarding paper money, and the loss of freedom/innocence/FIGHT that we humans experience when the value of our currency is reduced -- i.e. from gold/silver to paper was a definite downgrade -- not sure about you, but paper money just doesn't give the same sense of pride/accomplishment on payday as would a big handful of precious metal...



Regarding automation -- I think people will still do work, even when there is free energy.
It will be more like life on the frontier than in a factory.
People will have "enough to survive", but they will still have to motivate themselves to tend their properties and ensure proper food production.


Herbert said that are many kinds of currency -- education, health, food, safety from poison, political freedom, loyalty, etc.
Money itself is only one of the factors that contributes to progress/stability/advantage...



I think what people need to decide is, should the need for labor be *largely* eliminated on earth,
what will they do with the free time? Will they spend it in Virtual Reality? Will there be a whole new trend of amateur home video?
Will genetic engineering give rise to new sports, bring back the arena or give people real Pokemon? lol

Will distraction overcome people's motivation to do something with their free time?





I think free energy has already been figured out.
What TPTB are also afraid of is what people will do with their freedom.


Money keeps us stuck on planet earth.
It's the only place we can spend a Dollar...


religion, science, empathy should be enough to overcome money --

[risveglio]

Posted by Tesla_WTC_Solution (here)

I think what people need to decide is, should the need for labor be *largely* eliminated on earth,
what will they do with the free time? Will they spend it in Virtual Reality? Will there be a whole new trend of amateur home video?
Will genetic engineering give rise to new sports, bring back the arena or give people real Pokemon? lol

Will distraction overcome people's motivation to do something with their free time?

I think free energy has already been figured out.
What TPTB are also afraid of is what people will do with their freedom.
Money keeps us stuck on planet earth.
It's the only place we can spend a Dollar...


religion, science, empathy should be enough to overcome money --

I am not sure I understand or agree with this but I am one of those guys like Ron Paul, Norm Chromsky, Will Rogers, etc, that thinks we have never tried capitalism. I actually like the idea of Capitalism, it seems to be the closest system to fair if we are really living in a world or scarcity.

I understand the problem with "money" but to me that is all because of controllers. I am not sure I understand why as humans we feel the need and desire to have a master. But the problem with money, is that we let it be controlled, its really just a convenient way to barter. I think we are seeing a shift to crypto-currencies happening, just need to see who we let "control" it. I vote nobody but I am nuts.

Free energy would be a great thing and it would allow a lot of people to survive without working and without requiring force be used on those that do work to live. As long as you could find free food and there needs to be no work involved in capturing and transporting the energy.

Until we eliminate all the lazy, I am not sure how we will not need labor and money. Even if we have robots that can build and maintain robots, which we don't have right now so I don't understand.

I think in some ways religion, science and empathy does overcome money. I mean just here in my little fascist town the local church has done a lot to feed and shelter the poor that have been hurt so badly by government. Its through religion and empathy that these people are able to be helped.

Getting rid of money and labor, how do you do that without changing all humans? Will we not always have those that will try to harm? Always have those that will try to take advantage? Always have those that desire control and will try to get it?

I'm probably just babbling and probably should just delete this entire thing but **** it.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Well, you have a good point. Crypto currency would be fine if it was backed by gold or something.
I think in Heinlein's book FRIDAY, in the not so far future, people use electronic placeholders for actual gold in a real bank...
but TPTB have become balkanized. Capitalism has forced govt's to turn over control to corporate rule.
I guess it's a very rosy view of what's possible through corporate capitalism.

But at the end of the book (sorry for the spoiler),












FRIDAY jumps ship for a pioneer planet and chooses to work for a living,
supporting a colony on a new planet...


hint hint

and her value to them is in that she was genetically engineered to be far faster, stronger, more intelligent, and discreet than a normal human. she doesn't just use her power to take over the new colony and establish taxes.



when we are given power, i am not so sure that it's proper to make money off of others (with no other point to life) with these powers...


p.s. to a Genetically Enhanced Artificial Person like Friday, we would ALL seem lazy.

Lazy is a matter of perception.

"this person won't work for my system therefore he is useless"?

tsk

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

What can we do today to ensure that planets tomorrow don't look like ours?


pakistan


iraq


zimbabwe


india


USA


" "What's so hard is that a lot of families are working so hard," said Dr. Megan Sandel, an associate professor of pediatrics and public health at BMC. "They are working jobs. They are earning money and their dollars just don't go far enough."

That is life for nearly 15 million children living in poverty in the U.S., according to the National Center for Children in Poverty"

ABCNEWS

[yelik]

I think free energy would help rid the world of the elites as well as helping eliminate poverty and hunger. People would be able to live with dignity and would spend there time improving themselves and doing other things. I would imagine we would also see a significant advancement in technology as resources are freed up

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Posted by yelik (here)
I think free energy would help rid the world of the elites as well as helping eliminate poverty and hunger. People would be able to live with dignity and would spend there time improving themselves and doing other things. I would imagine we would also see a significant advancement in technology as resources are freed up

I tend to agree with you!
p.s. sorry to PA for my HORRIBLE bad mood.

this is how I feel today:

[Shezbeth]

Posted by dim (here)
Money was never the problem, remove it and watch how fast we can find another thing to attach to it
and cause all kinds of wars and misery
there's something much deeper that taints the human heart
money is an excuse only, anything else would be suffice also,
wouldn't surprise me if we start assaulting each other upon free energy for example
...yes, ever on free, abundant things, doesn't have to be any natural or artificial scarcity at all,
because that's what we do, we break balance
and until the very core of the problem is addressed - identification with form - there's little hope.
If there's any.

Of all the posts thus far in this thread - a discussion of significant value created essentially from nothing (hmmm, there might be something to that,...) - this is my favorite.

Money/currency is not the problem IMO. The problem is the ability of one acting entity (individual, group, corporation, whatever) being entitled to act in a manner that is irresponsible towards the needs of others. The needs of the many or even the one should outweigh the wants of the many/one. That is as near as I can simplify it, the distinction between wants and needs.

As long as there is an entitlement where the wants of one entity can be pursued at the expense of the needs of another, it really matters little what the catalyst is. Moreover, the economic guidelines the world over have entitled swathes of individuals to inherit (literally) resources that haven't been earned. I am not saying an individual shouldn't be entitled to the fruit of their labor (assuming that fruit is responsibly - not predatorily - acquired and amassed), but the ability to pass on the fruit (beyond one's needs) to one's descendants is (IMO) the initial causality for extreme decadence. Take the royal family for example,....

Without beginning to address the potential (I say potential in the interest of accommodation) for alien bloodlines and stipulated ruling/control, look at the royal families! What value have they offered to humanity? In what ways have they made circumstances better? In what manner has the troves of inherited wealth and property been earned, validated, and justified aside from having been begat by individuals who 'may' have earned the resources, wealth, control, etc. in the past? I recognize there may have been a time where royal/controlling groups and entities served a distinct purpose and practicality for and to the people, perhaps as administrators or ambassadors or something. Those days I suggest, are long since passed, and yet the current royals are entitled to inherit the accumulated wealth of the previous royals without the slightest effort.

My point is this; The ability to inherit resources without causal responsibility for the accruance is likewise tied to the ability to engage in irresponsibility toward others, whether on an individual or a massive scale. Simply, as long as people aren't required to be responsible in their pursuit of money, currency, whatever, they will have no incentive to be responsible to one another once all has been accumulated.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Good points, Shezbeth.

However, looking at the workforce in America -- I see something some people might miss (just bear with me).
Due to the 8-hour days most people put in, for the sake of survival the existing system, (The Red Queen's Race -- running to stay in one place),
I feel that Americans and others who use this system sacrifice their survival knowledge for temporarily useful skills in the workplace.

For example, my old job was working on quite aged aircraft -- which might be replaced by drones, as humans are phased out of the certain parts of the military.
That puts a whole lot of former technicians out of work. And since they were specialists on obsolete aircraft that were held onto for the sake of saving MONEY,
they have effectively sacrificed their survival skills, i.e. the mental storage capacity necessary for long-term human survival, for the short-term benefit.


When relatively young monetarily-based cultures (like Britain and Portugal and Spain and the Dutch, etc -- the colonizers) invade and disrupt ancient cultures, like the north and south american indians, and all the islanders like Hawaiia, Samoa, etc etc etc, they are forcing these people to go underground with their survival knowledge and religious knowledge. The church is blamed for suppressing native beliefs when in fact, big money drives that agenda more than any other factor.


I like to point out my experience as a m***ionary in Mongolia.
At the time it felt like we were "bringing the truth" to the "lost Asians".
Now I see that we were paving the way for westernization, sowing seeds to strengthen Mongolia against China and plant a fundamental sympathy for the West.
Like Herbert's Bene Gesserit Missionaria Protectiva. I guess. Insinuating ourselves, through religion, into the native psyche.

Because force doesn't always provide as direct a route for Big Money as religion can.
Religion greases the right wheels and shakes the right hands...



as for money vs. work as a thing of value.
my family were farmers. my great-grandfather managed to save enough money after WWII to buy a nice farm, almost 300 acres.
he used it for cattle, tobacco, and preserved a great deal of forest and other natural habitat.

without the farm he invested in, we kids would not have had all the meat, vegetables, fruit that was available on the farm.

He took the Asian approach, "be like the fish, who is constantly in the mud but never dirty".


My grandfather used his negative experience with the military and system to buy a few generations' worth of peace.

But it was not money itself that did this. It was because this man cared a lot about the future.
He sacrificed to preserve the knowledge of our connection to the earth.

Money tries to cut us off from our natural wealth, the truth that you don't really need money in order to survive.

That is a grand illusion that WE help make real when WE buy into to THEIR system..


reminds me of a certain departed user, who talked about YOUR MIND and THEIR MIND.
maybe she had a good point?

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

I just had a thought in the bathroom, lol.

In order to control humans, which is very hard -- you have to learn how to turn their own survival mechanisms and drives against themselves.

Financial pressure (maybe not money in and of itself as some pointed out) is a good way to turn the survival instinct into a weapon.

I.e. instinctively, good people desire to support their families, to be protective.
But add enough financial pressure, and even many of the "best" kinds of people turn into monsters.
Driven to desperation, fragmented internally, by the pain and division inflicted by money and the promises it whispers.


Being poor is kind of like being alone.
Some people say, "you have to be comfortable with yourself in order to be comfortable with others".

By the same token, kind of like Dickens said, if we don't know what it's like to be poor, how can we know what virtue is?




Even Buddha himself, when he renounced his princehood, distanced himself from the weight of worldly goods (Mammon!),
and was released from the Karmic Wheel.


perhaps i am not capable of expressing what this Master would say to us in our troubled modern times.



If the USA continues to use money, we need to heed what ancient cultures said about it:

In the Anguttaranikaya (A.II. (69-70) the Buddha mentions that there are four kinds of happiness derived from wealth. They are:

1) Atthisukha - The happiness of ownership.

2) Anavajjasukha - The happiness derived from wealth which is earned by means of right livelihood, i.e. not dealing in the sale of harmful weapons, not dealing in the slaughter of animals and sale of flesh, not dealing in the sale of liquor, not dealing in the sale of human beings (e.g. slavery and prostitution) and not dealing in the sale of poisons.

3) Ananasukha - the happiness derived from not being in debt.

4) Bhogasukha - the happiness of sharing one's wealth. This kind of happiness is an extremely important concept in Buddhism.

when we "rent ourselves out" to the corporate world,
what do we "own"? how can we own a share of slavery? @@

and how many americans are debt free? lmfao!

how many americans deal in weapons and poisons? (most of the rich ones from Monsanto to Gates to Cheney to Venter lol)

and sadly, how many americans give freely of themselves to others?
time, education, risks, donations?

Buddha made it fairly clear that the establishment isn't enough -- don't just give your 10 percent to some church or other....



give sincerely of yourselves.

[thunder24]

Posted by Tesla_WTC_Solution (here)

Buddha made it fairly clear that the establishment isn't enough -- don't just give your 10 percent to some church or other....



give sincerely of yourselves.

there u go

[Pam]

Posted by dim (here)
Money was never the problem, remove it and watch how fast we can find another thing to attach to it
and cause all kinds of wars and misery
there's something much deeper that taints the human heart
money is an excuse only, anything else would be suffice also,
wouldn't surprise me if we start assaulting each other upon free energy for example
...yes, ever on free, abundant things, doesn't have to be any natural or artificial scarcity at all,
because that's what we do, we break balance
and until the very core of the problem is addressed - identification with form - there's little hope.
If there's any.

I totally agree with with you. Yes, money is the universal driver of greed. Money is about feeling control, accumulate money-accumulate control, the same is true for war, sex(sometimes), and violence. If you take away the money problem it will manifest in something else.

By the way, I want to thank everyone for the insightful , brilliant discussion going on in this thread.

pam

[aheb]

It is not money that is evil, without money we would be in a much worse state. What is evil is the way that money is manipulated and people must get away from the left right paradigm, that doesn't really apply. The democrats/labour and the Republicans/ conservatives are passenegrs on a boat, they don't drive or steer it, the military industrial complex ruled over by the banks control it, and use debt based fractional reseve banking to enforce their hold. Until you understand that you are no nearer to destroying this process than your ancestors

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Posted by aheb (here)
It is not money that is evil, without money we would be in a much worse state. What is evil is the way that money is manipulated and people must get away from the left right paradigm, that doesn't really apply. The democrats/labour and the Republicans/ conservatives are passenegrs on a boat, they don't drive or steer it, the military industrial complex ruled over by the banks control it, and use debt based fractional reseve banking to enforce their hold. Until you understand that you are no nearer to destroying this process than your ancestors

Would you agree that the money of today is NOT like the money of 100 years ago?
i.e. paper money should not be considered a true currency because it represents something totally different than the "real thing" i.e. gold/silver

Come to think of it, to get people to "hate/resent" and "let go" of their money,
turning it into depressing ugly paper with other people's names on it, or worse, turning it into a plastic charge card (!),
works quite well.

I think if I had a stack of gold coins at home, I would be more likely to keep them,
than I am to keep my 'electronic' money/paper money --

In the back of my mind, for instance, I am constantly worried about:

A.) my bank changing policy to screw me (happened this month -- atm inquiries racked up fees that overdrew my accounts for the first time ever)
B.) TPTB blocking my transactions (used to happen a lot with my cards, wal mart and toys r us etc.)
C.) a run on the banks
D.) electronic warfare
E.) revolution devaluing the currency
F.) plague/quarantine trapping us i.e. unable to use currency due to lack of access to necessary systems



the list goes on forever.
at least as of 2014...



If we were talking about gold and silver etc. i would have to agree, there are lots of good things about money...
IF it's based on something of value and can be redeemed...

we lost everything in the 20s-30s

...

after the Fed Reserve came up and the gold was confiscated!
it's UNREAL that in the USA people would agree to that.
imo.


i think a metal detector would be an awesome investment.
i would take it to all the houses that stood right before the gold seizure.
and look for their hidden jars of coins.

better believe it Baby




p.s. now leave me alone i have to do the devil's work for a while (ebay)

lol


p.p.s. Dim, sorry I took a "dim view" of your argument.
I was SO PISSED OFF that day (pileup)


p.p.p.s. who said this one: "buy ye gold tried by fire".

not gonna give the verse # because i got one wrong earlier and someone said i missed the point of the story (eye roll)