PROSPERITY Promises: Free Lunch really means a loss of Freedom

[GuyFox]

PROSPERITY Promises: Free Lunch really means a loss of Freedom

/ This post was inspired by a shorter comment elsewhere, but I thought it could use a thread of its own, since many people who are talking about things like Prosperity Funds may actually be agents of a bigger effort, trying to dupe people with empty promises and rob everyone of their freedom. In other words, Prosperity Promises, like OPPT, SwissIndo, and Ubuntu are dangerous, and need to be examined very carefully, including the big picture implications. /



THIS part (of the OPPT insiders' beliefs is Problematic):

"Swiss-Indo is the New World Order attempting to keep the money that has been foreclosed upon by OPPT...you need to do your own research and realize the slave system has had the stolen value redistributed to every real-man with arms and legs on earth at solid rate of 4.9 billion and damages of 5 billion per person."

What a sense of ENTITLEMENT this conveys !

Many of these idiots think they really have had something huge "stolen" from them. Like silver spoon kids they are awaiting their inheritance. Meantime, they are living off hand-outs: donations, food stamps, welfare, disability payments and so forth.

If the institutions were really foreclosed upon, those sources of cash flow would dry up, and they would be truly impoverished.

I cannot say I want to see this happen. But if the US economy does implode, these folks would soon discover what a genuine "slave system" looks like.
==

It's not Free Money or Free Energy that they are really seeking.
I believe theTruth is; what they want is a Free Lunch... forever.

So long as someone gives them a Free Lunch, they want to scrap, not reform, the current system of money. They think they can live happily in a world without incentives, and someone will just GIVE them the Free Lunch, even though they will no longer have any incentive to work themselves. (Hmm. They never ask themselves, why will a farmer bother to GROW food if he cannot have something back for what he produces? Ponder this question, would be destructive to the fantasies they are promoting.)

The Implication of Free Lunch, is Loss of Freedom ... WHY?

+ They are ask for (a large sum) of Free Money because they foolishly FORGET that if everyone is handed a huge sum. then prices will quickly escalate as they rush to spend it, and there will soon be hyperinflation; and

+ The idea of "no Money" resonates with them because they think that somehow all there needs will magically be met, and food and other necessities will somehow be handed out to everyone for free. But they are not thinking clearly at all

The Reason Why is...
If an economy is not using Incentives, and free choice, it must use coercion instead !
So, I reckon : Free Lunch = Slavery (for some, maybe most)



Have you seen the film, Twelve Years as a Slave?

Solomon was one of many people toiling in the fields under a "no money" system. Is that what these idiots want to see?

A NO MONEY system can work, if "Massa" controls everything, and assigns the work, and hands out the food, while also controlling the sleeping and housing arrangements.

IMHO, this is what Tellinger's UBUNTU would lead to, and I think I can make a strong argument it will be the inevitable result of his plans.

[Shezbeth]

An excellent thread topic, I am glad that you have brought it up. My most favorite of books - The 48 Laws of Power - goes into great detail on precisely the concept you are describing, except without the current political/economic efforts.

What is offered for free is dangerous—it usually involves either a trick or a hidden obligation. What has worth is worth paying for. By paying your own way you stay clear of gratitude, guilt, and deceit.

Quick References:
http://48laws-of-power.blogspot.com/...ree-lunch.html
http://48-laws-of-power.blogspot.com...ree-lunch.html

That which is offered for "free" will be found to have equal or lesser value. There is always a cost, even if not monetary or readily apparent. A quick websearch can find this concept applied to all manner of topics and areas. One can be certain that anyone offering anything for free has a hidden agenda and or ulterior motive (whether conscious of it or not), and you are correct in stating that a person cannot be free if they are beholden to another for any reason.

[GuyFox]

"One can be certain that anyone offering anything for free has a hidden agenda and or ulterior motive (whether conscious of it or not), and you are correct in stating that a person cannot be free if they are beholden to another for any reason..."

Exactly.
Already, many of those who bought into the Free Money concepts (of OPPT etc) have given up their jobs, as they were encouraged to do - and some of them have moved to Morocco where they are now asking for donations to set up what they say will be a new sort of "self-sustaining" community. I find it ironic, that a self-sustaining community needs donations from outsiders to get going.

Part of the dream they are selling is that they plan to power this community with Free Energy devices - even though their machine has not yet produced Over-Unity energy.. (I notice an interesting pattern that those who want Free Money, also find it easy to believe in Free Energy.) These people have slogans that sound like they were invented by George Orwell (who wrote: "War is Peace, Peace is War" and so forth - slogans that turn everything on its head. They talk about "Being and Doing", while being dependent on donations, and doing drugs and promoting free sex (another "free" thing!) Everything for them is "absent limits" - ie no practical considerations need apply, even though they are complaining constantly about the limitations that are holding them back.

For those who are old enough (like me!) it may remind them of the Pipe Dreams of the Sixties. Anyone who does recall the Sixties will know that the promise of the "Summer of Love", eventually turned into to the dark realities of STD, drug addiction, and violence at Rock Metal concerts (see Altamont video.) We only moved out of that dark period when people rediscovered the power of incentives, hard work, and noble causes in building something that could be worthwhile.

Check out a book and a film called The Incredible Bread Machine, and you will find something that help to liberate people from the nightmare of Hippie culture.

In the longer run, people got brainwashed into another sort of culture - of brain-dead mass consumerism. But we must not blame money for that. We just need a more fair system of creating money, and delivering it to those who want to use it. Handing it out for Free to everyone, is not the answer (since it will soon have no value.) Nor is it the answer to hand it out for almost free to the friends of Central bankers. We can do better than either of these two models. And maybe THAT is what this thread will wind up being about - Designing a better method of money creation.

[Hervé]

Once one gets to the bottom of the matter, whether one pays for one's lunch or is offered lunch, one is still a slave...

... so, what's the bottom of that matter?

Well, you see, this thing called life on Earth uses what's called "cells" or cellular arrangements of simpler "organisms"... the designer of those, from unicellular to human mammals, build them with the same blueprint:

Some sort of digestive system!

With that premise of "life," it's all slavery, whether one likes it or not, from there on out!

So, when one signs on the dotted line for re-/incarnation into a meat suit (i.e. "body"), one signs for the slavery of feeding that body for the rest of one's life on Earth and is condemned to eating, drinking, peeing, pooing for a whole life time... that's the deal!

Welcome to the reservation!

[GuyFox]

Thanks for your comment, A.Z.

But I do wish that you had come a little closer to addressing the core part of the debate -
which is whether or not: Incentives and Hard Work are both essential in creating a Free Economy.

IMO, All forms of economic organisation are not equal in their efficiency or their ability to deliver Liberty

[Shezbeth]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
Once one gets to the bottom of the matter, whether one pays for one's lunch or is offered lunch, one is still a slave... [...] So, when one signs on the dotted line for re-/incarnation into a meat suit [....]

Begging your pardon Amzer but I haven't signed or agreed to anything (edit: pertaining to manifesting), though you are welcome to the perception that I/we did as well as agreement with whatever justification by which you reach that perception. IMO what you are describing is one of the most basic, lasting, and nefarious intellectual contracts that exist, brought about through either ignorance and/or nescience. I welcome a discussion on the topic if you wish to further it, just not in this thread.

Beyond that, I don't disagree that an individual is a slave regardless if one is complicit; this reasonably seems conclusively endemic to physiological existence, especially as pertains to the perpetuation of the body (food, water, etc.). Unfortunately - both in response to your and to GuyFox's posts - I am not convinced that there is a solution. I can illustrate the problem from the angles of psychology, sociology, economics, politics, etc. but I cannot identify a solution, at least not one that is acceptable outside myself. For me it amounts to two words: personal responsibility. I can speak volumes about why that won't ever experience massive acceptance, but that too is a discussion for another thread.

Simply, I agree with the OP and the assertion made therein. My experience includes different forms of 'free lunches', but the thesis is consistent. The closest I can come to addressing the problem is simply not to participate and to advocate against participation, in as many ways as I am capable of conceiving. In my experience, this leads to an increase in adverse experience, but I am okay with that. I would rather suffer than compromise what I perceive to be my own integrity and perception of values.

[Hervé]

Posted by Shezbeth (here)
[...]

Begging your pardon Amzer but I haven't signed or agreed to anything, though you are welcome to the perception that I/we did as well as agreement with whatever justification by which you reach that perception.

[...]

Did you use a meat suit to type that post? If so, I gather (my perception) that somehow you did agree to entertain a meat body for the length of its duration on Earth. Am I that wrong?

If not quite wrong, then any system has to follow the rules dictated by that state of affair / premise. There is no escaping it.

Natives used tobacco as a means of exchange for what they took away for their survival needs... in other words, at least, a fair exchange has to be respected if not a maintaining of a balance by replacing what's taken, etc...

[Ahnung-quay]

Being free takes a lot of work, as any person trying to live an "indigenous" lifestyle in this world will tell you. I watched a video a few years ago about mountain men (and women) and the fact that it took them all summer to prepare for their survival of the next winter. And, they still had to buy some items at the store.

Most people do not want to go back to living that way and so want to rely on a monetary system of economy. Within that monetary economy there are all kinds of levels of people; those who are willing to support themselves 100% and those wanting to ride "for free", and every degree in between. Only their free ride costs somebody else some money somewhere.

Amzer Zo makes a good point that if you have a digestive system, you have a slave system. Some of the slaves just work harder than others...

Within the Native American community, the old way of doing things is that ceremony, teachings, even medicine is free of charge because Spirit can't be charged for. There are no suggested donations but, if people want to donate they can. Unfortunately, it takes money nowadays to do these things; a horse or a few chickens isn't the accepted donation anymore. The upshot of this is that many people won't practice these ways because they don't perceive a value in it. The perception is that if no one is charging money, it can't have any value! This is the only free thing that I've found on this earth in all of my years of living here.

New agers (many of whom are hard workers) and who charge for everything they do seem to be the worst with this perception. They'll pay hundreds of dollars for some spiritual retreat but, won't come to a free ceremony to get the same spiritual uplift.

Even the non-working slaves don't come this way; they just want free lunch.

[GuyFox]

There ARE other systems of economic organization being practiced within our larger economy RIGHT NOW... at least in some pockets:

(1) Peer-Production Economies (PPE's)

P2P is a specific form of relational dynamic, based on the assumed equipotency of its participants, organized through the free cooperation of equals in view of the performance of a common task, for the creation of a common good, with forms of decision making and autonomy that are widely distributed throughout the network.
> wiki : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_...peer_processes
> P2P Foundation website : http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/

Podcast interview about PPE's: http://c-realm.com/podcasts/crealm/3...s-a-trialogue/
(Answers the question: What is Venture Communism?)

(2) Georgism : common ownership of property, to discourage "rent seeking"

Georgism is an economic philosophy and ideology which holds that people own what they create, but that income (economic rent) from things found in nature, most importantly from land, belongs equally to all. The philosophical basis of Georgism dates back to early proponents such as John Locke and Baruch Spinoza, but the concept was widely popularized by the economist and social reformer Henry George (1839–1897).

Georgists argue that a tax on land value is efficient, fair, and equitable; and that it can generate sufficient revenue so that other taxes (e.g. taxes on profits, sales or income), which are less fair and efficient, can be reduced or eliminated
> Georgism- Wiki : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism
> Henry George Foundation : http://www.henrygeorgefoundation.org/

(3) Agorism : is revolutionary market anarchism.

In a market anarchist society, law and security would be provided by market actors instead of political institutions. Agorists recognize that situation can not develop through political reform. Instead, it will arise as a result of market processes.
> wiki: http://agorism.info/

Podcast interview with MK Lords : http://www.redicecreations.com/radio...314-140423.php

(4) Acorn: the "unscheduled" intentional community

Communities have their own personalities. Twin Oaks is what i call a clockwork community, where there is a more regular procedure for things to happen. Hundreds of work shifts are scheduled, meals show up on time and reliably, you better not be late for your tofu shift – because people are depending on you. Acorn is somewhat more chaotic. Things happen when people get inspired to make them happen, very little is scheduled...
> Website : http://www.acorncommunity.org/

Podcast interview with G. Paul Blundell : http://c-realm.com/podcasts/crealm/4...rve-anarchism/

Perhaps we could discuss the merits of these systems versus the Corporate-control economy that we see in the West - Unfortunately, we can no longer call it "Free Market Capitalism", because the remnants of that "old" system have been slowly co-opted since the assassination attempt on President Reagan. After that, he turned over too much decision making to his Vice President.

[Ahnung-quay]

P.S., this weekend, I will be attending the spring Healing of the Heart ceremony at our community arbor in Wisconsin. This is my free vacation from the world!

Four days of dancing, singing, praying and communing around the big drum. The only cost is the gas to get there, a few food donations and yes, I do plan on donating some money.

have a great Memorial Day weekend all! In love.

[GuyFox]

Voluntary donations are a valid and commonly used incentive,
to support and thank an enterprize for its efforts or products.

Many internet website operate that way, for instance - even Pr-A does.

But if no one donates, after a while the enterprise may just die, and that can even happen if the donations fail to cover costs.

If people have a strong sense of ENTITLEMENT (OPPT-ers say $5-10 Billion was "stolen" from each of them - believe it or not), then how much voluntary effort, or how many voluntary contributions are you going to get?

[GuyFox]

OF THE FOUR alternative methods of economic organisation... (see post #9, above)

The one that I am most partial to is Georgism.

This video explains its merits:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=1pYSsME_h7E

> source: http://www.henrygeorgefoundation.org/

[GuyFox]

NEW AGER Nonsense.

You don't need to look at too many New Age websites, before you will find statements like this:

+ Realize that as long as there is money, we are ALL economic slaves

It all happens by the age of 12-14. One thing we don’t teach our children is how accumulated wealth is a delusional idea which inconspicuously facilitates status, security and happiness, all of which are inherent without money, yet we have been engrained in this illusion that separates us as a global society while maintaining barbaric divide and conquer principles in a capitalist society masquerading as a democracy.

At what point is enough, “enough”?
> source: http://humansarefree.com/2014/05/7-b...e-against.html

Huh?
We have an idea that our society is over-focused on wealth and consumption (something I happen to agree with), and that is stuck together with the notion that "as long as there is money, we are ALL economic slaves" ???

How does one follow idea from the other?

FREEDOM to earn and spend your own wealth is a big part of most people's notion of freedom. How is doing that, suddenly equated with the loss of freedom?

If you have no wealth, then you will (soon) become dependent on handouts, most likely handouts from government, and THAT is no road to freedom. It is just the reverse. Just look at those societies that lack it, or a large part of the population has none. The most relevant and recent one that many Americans will be familiar with, was under the institution of slavery. The slaves had no money, and so were fully dependent on their masters.