The Banality of Evil

[giovonni]

practice makes perfect ...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=JTN9Nx8VYtk

[Tony]

Good Heart = Easy Path.

[giovonni]

Posted by Tony (here)
Good Heart = Easy Path.

Always my Friend ...

[joeecho]

Banality of Evil is the elephant in the room.

It is what views my views as alien to yours and yours alien to mine.

What if neither view is entirely correct? My view is neither better or worse then yours.

If I was riding the elephant and you were somewhere around the elephant, which one sees it better?

Neither.

I see, for instance, the back and top of the head better then you but you see it's feet and belly better then I. But for some reason, one of us or both think it sees it better. (What is up with that?)

We have two eyes, one to view the elephant and one to view each other as One.

May we all find clarity in the right one.

[Milneman]

Posted by Tony (here)
Good Heart = Easy Path.

If you had just started by saying that..... but....

NOOO you had to complicate it with Dharma

(Having a cross between a Crazy Scottish Parson and Dogen Zenji moment. )

[Tony]

Posted by Milneman (here)

Posted by Tony (here)
Good Heart = Easy Path.

If you had just started by saying that..... but....

NOOO you had to complicate it with Dharma

(Having a cross between a Crazy Scottish Parson and Dogen Zenji moment. )

Well, not everyone is convinced that they simple have a good heart, as our minds get in the way.

Tony

¤=[Post Update]=¤ - sorry! I posted this too quickly and it's joined on

The Stainless Sphere of No Circumference

This is mind essence. Pure awareness. Sacred space. It is what we are.
This stainless sacred space embodies, through ignorance, a temporary form as dictated by karma.

Mind essence is pure. Through the bodily senses, we perceive phenomena, which appears in the mind.
Therefore, all appearances are first noted in the mind.

If we are aware of our pure nature, these appearances (whether pleasant or unpleasant) appear as
energies of light in the first instance. If untouched, these melt into the clear light of pure essence -
our clear light of bliss.

If this clear light of bliss becomes attracted to or repelled by external phenomena, it makes illusory
appearances seem solid. Essence becomes more attracted to the illusions than to its own nature.
Forgetting its own nature, a partial self is created, turning these energies of light into darkness.
Through habitual reactions and responses over eons, pure light becomes obscured by our habitual
clinging to illusory phenomena.

In an instant, the light can be turned on and all phantoms will disappear.
A moment of knowing dispels unknowing.
ENLIGHTENMENT IS WHEN THE LIGHT IS PERMANENTLY ON.

We all have different capacities of fluctuating between knowing and not knowing – of the light being
turned on and off. And so we live in a flickering world. Our capacity - our flicker rate – will be different
in every individual. Our job is to merely recognise. The more we recognise the dark, the more the light
is present. It's simply a matter of not reacting: non-reaction loosens the dark stains created.

The test for this is whether our response has an aftertaste: if we have circling thoughts and fixations,
that is merely a partial self clinging (an ego). If the response is stainless, there will be no aftertaste.

The important point to recognise is that these stains are not “bad”.
They are merely a recognition of misperception. That recognition is the unity of the two truths,
one reflecting the other: recognising the dark is the light itself. Like wetness and water, they cannot be separated.

At this level, there is no good or bad. There is merely misperception or pure perception

We all have an inkling of this truth because we all experience the flicker.



Tony

[giovonni]

Thanks Tony for the thread ...

Last post ~ note my avatar has nothing to do with being a buddhist ...

it is only a simple representation of myself living under the tree of life ...

Always with Love


the Human condition

[Milneman]

Posted by Tony (here)

Posted by Milneman (here)

Posted by Tony (here)
Good Heart = Easy Path.

If you had just started by saying that..... but....

NOOO you had to complicate it with Dharma

(Having a cross between a Crazy Scottish Parson and Dogen Zenji moment. )

Well, not everyone is convinced that they simple have a good heart, as our minds get in the way.

Tony

¤=[Post Update]=¤ - sorry! I posted this too quickly and it's joined on

The Stainless Sphere of No Circumference

This is mind essence. Pure awareness. Sacred space. It is what we are.
This stainless sacred space embodies, through ignorance, a temporary form as dictated by karma.

Mind essence is pure. Through the bodily senses, we perceive phenomena, which appears in the mind.
Therefore, all appearances are first noted in the mind.

If we are aware of our pure nature, these appearances (whether pleasant or unpleasant) appear as
energies of light in the first instance. If untouched, these melt into the clear light of pure essence -
our clear light of bliss.

If this clear light of bliss becomes attracted to or repelled by external phenomena, it makes illusory
appearances seem solid. Essence becomes more attracted to the illusions than to its own nature.
Forgetting its own nature, a partial self is created, turning these energies of light into darkness.
Through habitual reactions and responses over eons, pure light becomes obscured by our habitual
clinging to illusory phenomena.

In an instant, the light can be turned on and all phantoms will disappear.
A moment of knowing dispels unknowing.
ENLIGHTENMENT IS WHEN THE LIGHT IS PERMANENTLY ON.

We all have different capacities of fluctuating between knowing and not knowing – of the light being
turned on and off. And so we live in a flickering world. Our capacity - our flicker rate – will be different
in every individual. Our job is to merely recognise. The more we recognise the dark, the more the light
is present. It's simply a matter of not reacting: non-reaction loosens the dark stains created.

The test for this is whether our response has an aftertaste: if we have circling thoughts and fixations,
that is merely a partial self clinging (an ego). If the response is stainless, there will be no aftertaste.

The important point to recognise is that these stains are not “bad”.
They are merely a recognition of misperception. That recognition is the unity of the two truths,
one reflecting the other: recognising the dark is the light itself. Like wetness and water, they cannot be separated.

At this level, there is no good or bad. There is merely misperception or pure perception

We all have an inkling of this truth because we all experience the flicker.



Tony

Plantinga couldn't have said it better....John Calvin said relatively the same thing.

This round is on me, mate.

[Dorjezigzag]

Posted by Tony (here)
Good Heart = Easy Path.

Some may disagree with this definitive statement

[Tony]

Posted by Dorjezigzag (here)

Posted by Tony (here)
Good Heart = Easy Path.

Some may disagree with this definitive statement

We are talking about the good heart, not the good body.
Recognising suffering is our first steps to liberation,
with a good will and a good heart we shall arrive at
our destination to now-here.

The only thing that stands in our way is our own banality.



Tony

[Dorjezigzag]

We are talking about the good heart, not the good body.

you are
and so am I
which I guess makes we
this path is not always easy.

but his body,
which I never mentioned,
does not look in too good shape in this picture.

writing prose as though
it is a buddhist sutra
does not make it
more true
infact
the constant repetition
of style over substance
becomes somewhat banal
after a while.

Evil and reality cannot be defined within a box, they will always surprise, to think and expect as such is banal

"Castles Made Of Sand"

Down the street you can hear her scream "you're a disgrace"
As she slams the door in his drunken face,
And now he stands outside and all the neighbours start to gossip and drool.

He cries "Oh girl, you must be mad,
What happened to the sweet love you and me had?"
Against the door he leans and starts a scene,
And his tears fall and burn the garden green.

And so castles made of sand, fall in the sea, eventually.

A little Indian brave who before he was ten, played war games in
the woods with his Indian friends, and he built a dream that when he
grew up, he would be a fearless warrior Indian Chief.

Many moons passed and more the dream grew strong, until tomorrow
He would sing his first war song,
And fight his first battle, but something went wrong,
Suprise attack killed him in his sleep that night

And so castles made of sand, melts into the sea eventually.

There was a young girl, whose heart was a frown,
Because she was crippled for life, and couldn't speak a sound
And she wished and prayed she would stop living, so she decided to die.
She drew her wheel chair to the edge of the shore, and to her legs she smiled

"You won't hurt me no more."
But then a sight she'd never seen made her JUMP AND SAY
"Look, a golden winged ship is passing my way"
And it really didn't have to stop...it just kept on going.
And so castles made of sand slips into the sea,
Eventually

[Tony]

Posted by Milneman (here)

Posted by Tony (here)

Posted by Milneman (here)

Posted by Tony (here)
Good Heart = Easy Path.

If you had just started by saying that..... but....

NOOO you had to complicate it with Dharma

(Having a cross between a Crazy Scottish Parson and Dogen Zenji moment. )

Well, not everyone is convinced that they simple have a good heart, as our minds get in the way.

Tony

¤=[Post Update]=¤ - sorry! I posted this too quickly and it's joined on

The Stainless Sphere of No Circumference

This is mind essence. Pure awareness. Sacred space. It is what we are.
This stainless sacred space embodies, through ignorance, a temporary form as dictated by karma.

Mind essence is pure. Through the bodily senses, we perceive phenomena, which appears in the mind.
Therefore, all appearances are first noted in the mind.

If we are aware of our pure nature, these appearances (whether pleasant or unpleasant) appear as
energies of light in the first instance. If untouched, these melt into the clear light of pure essence -
our clear light of bliss.

If this clear light of bliss becomes attracted to or repelled by external phenomena, it makes illusory
appearances seem solid. Essence becomes more attracted to the illusions than to its own nature.
Forgetting its own nature, a partial self is created, turning these energies of light into darkness.
Through habitual reactions and responses over eons, pure light becomes obscured by our habitual
clinging to illusory phenomena.

In an instant, the light can be turned on and all phantoms will disappear.
A moment of knowing dispels unknowing.
ENLIGHTENMENT IS WHEN THE LIGHT IS PERMANENTLY ON.

We all have different capacities of fluctuating between knowing and not knowing – of the light being
turned on and off. And so we live in a flickering world. Our capacity - our flicker rate – will be different
in every individual. Our job is to merely recognise. The more we recognise the dark, the more the light
is present. It's simply a matter of not reacting: non-reaction loosens the dark stains created.

The test for this is whether our response has an aftertaste: if we have circling thoughts and fixations,
that is merely a partial self clinging (an ego). If the response is stainless, there will be no aftertaste.

The important point to recognise is that these stains are not “bad”.
They are merely a recognition of misperception. That recognition is the unity of the two truths,
one reflecting the other: recognising the dark is the light itself. Like wetness and water, they cannot be separated.

At this level, there is no good or bad. There is merely misperception or pure perception

We all have an inkling of this truth because we all experience the flicker.



Tony

Plantinga couldn't have said it better....John Calvin said relatively the same thing.

This round is on me, mate.

You are the winner.
There will always be the winner as long as there is an ego.



Tony

[Tony]

Posted by Dorjezigzag (here)

We are talking about the good heart, not the good body.

you are
and so am I
which I guess makes we
this path is not always easy.

but his body,
which I never mentioned,
does not look in too good shape in this picture.

writing prose as though
it is a buddhist sutra
does not make it
more true
infact
the constant repetition
of style over substance
becomes somewhat banal
after a while.

Evil and reality cannot be defined within a box, they will always surprise, to think and expect as such is banal

"Castles Made Of Sand"

Down the street you can hear her scream "you're a disgrace"
As she slams the door in his drunken face,
And now he stands outside and all the neighbours start to gossip and drool.

He cries "Oh girl, you must be mad,
What happened to the sweet love you and me had?"
Against the door he leans and starts a scene,
And his tears fall and burn the garden green.

And so castles made of sand, fall in the sea, eventually.

A little Indian brave who before he was ten, played war games in
the woods with his Indian friends, and he built a dream that when he
grew up, he would be a fearless warrior Indian Chief.

Many moons passed and more the dream grew strong, until tomorrow
He would sing his first war song,
And fight his first battle, but something went wrong,
Suprise attack killed him in his sleep that night

And so castles made of sand, melts into the sea eventually.

There was a young girl, whose heart was a frown,
Because she was crippled for life, and couldn't speak a sound
And she wished and prayed she would stop living, so she decided to die.
She drew her wheel chair to the edge of the shore, and to her legs she smiled

"You won't hurt me no more."
But then a sight she'd never seen made her JUMP AND SAY
"Look, a golden winged ship is passing my way"
And it really didn't have to stop...it just kept on going.
And so castles made of sand slips into the sea,
Eventually

If we have a problem with others, it is still our problem.
Compassion is challenging, but in that seeming challenge
is our teacher.


Tony
PS. Sorry for the way I write.

[loungelizard]

Posted by Dorjezigzag (here)

Posted by Tony (here)
Good Heart = Easy Path.

Some may disagree with this definitive statement

Some may indeed: we are all free to live by our own beliefs and allow others the same courtesy.

But "easy path" is not synonymous with a" comfortable life". You must be familiar with bodhicitta motivation.

Viktor Frankl (a psychiatrist and a holocaust survivor) wrote:

“We who lived in concentration camps can remember the men who walked through the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms -- to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances. To choose one's own way.”


PS With respect, Dorje - do you dictate to everyone on this forum how they should present their writing? This has the flavour of an ad hominem attack: you are not addressing the content other than to waft vague accusations about "style over substance', but are attacking the OP's choice of presentation. I think you're reading far too much into things...I suppose that's what comes of writing on a "conspiracy forum"

[Dorjezigzag]

Sorry for the way I write.

No you're not

You are free to write as you so choose,
but I am sure you aware that
This literary form was designed for concision, as the texts were intended to be memorized by students in some of the formal methods of scriptural and scientific study (Sanskrit: svādhyāya). Since each line is highly condensed.

As Project Avalon is recorded on a hard drive your students do not need to memorize your prose and so a more contemporary forum style of writing could be appropriate.

Of course it is your choice, there is a certain authority with this style of expression, as though your words are uttered by the master himself, although someone as beyond ego as your self of course would never use linguistic style in this way, I am sure your use is purely what you deem is most effective for your students.

[loungelizard]

Going back to the topic of this thread

“Between stimulus and response, there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.”

I've been reading Viktor Frankl, and wonder whether this space that he talks about is the moment when evil can manifest - in the sense that the response we make to a stimulus can be dictated either by a selfish or selfless motivation.

The gratuitous acts of cruelty could committed by Eichmann (relating to the title of this thread) - according to Arendt's conclusions - because he chose not to think about them. He was able to ignore the space between stimulus (his orders and the law) and response (transporting thousands to the death camps in Poland) by refusing to indulge in moral speculation.

If he'd thought about it and looked into his conscience, I wonder he have acted differently...

Would we all agree that "evil-doers" are not "evil people"? My old mum used to take great comfort in believing that only bad people committed evil acts, but it's clear that you don't have to be a monster to perpetrate evil acts.

As Solzhenitsyn wrote:
“If only there were evil people somewhere, insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the dividing line between good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?”

[Dorjezigzag]

An evil act in the news at the moment of which there is nothing banal, except perhaps this kind of teenage rampage is becoming all to common place.

California shooting: Suspect is son of Hunger Games assistant director

His statement before the killing was very revealing to me.

" It all has to come to this. Tomorrow is the day of retribution. The day in which I will have my revenge against humanity. Against all of you "

He saw himself as something other and humans as evil that needed to be punished.

This is the same thing with nazi against Jew, christian against muslim etc etc

This sense of seeing others as others, as yourself as pure and others as unpure and therefore needing to be sacrificed.

Perhaps there are times we should see the evil in our selves before pointing it at others,

[Tony]

Trying to keep to the topic isn't easy is it?

As an old typographer/designer, who used to get type set in hot melt,
we all knew that long lines do not read very well.
Calculating type was a glorious art, to see if the type fitted correctly.

In writing on a forum, one wishes to be as clear as possible, so the less words the better.
I've been accused many times for being too wordy. Well, you can't please everyone!

Back to the topic. The banality of evil starts three mental poisons, I like, I don't like, I don't care
– desire, aversion and indifference. Everything is taken personally.
This translates into defensiveness and personal attacks which gets threads closed.
Is this the intention?

From dislike, to hatred to evil actions, is all due to banal indifference – ignorance.

My writing style is due to text I read and enjoy.


Tony

[loungelizard]

Posted by Tony (here)
As an old typographer/designer, who used to get type set in hot melt,
we all knew that long lines do not read very well.
Calculating type was a glorious art, to see if the type fitted correctly.

Damn! Such a banal explanation

[loungelizard]

"Perhaps there are times we should see the evil in our selves before pointing it at others,"

The only bit of that I would disagree with is the "Perhaps"...