Do Americans deserve the Trouble Flowing their way?

[wnlight]

Well. Im not going to take the bait and start piling on insults after insults. I did feel the heat rise on the back of my neck for a few seconds. Thanks, Guy Fox, a little emotion now and then is a good thing. Here's a tip: I don't think you will influence many here with your insults. Another tip: I haven't read anything new in your posts.

So... Did you know that the MSM were once a loose collection of independently owned TV and radio and print media outlets? I suppose that was you out there demonstrating in the streets when the laws were changed so that a few large corporations could buy up the independents and create the MSM tat you hate. Did you participate in any of the fights to keep Walmart out of your neighbourhood or city? Do you have a credit card or bank account from one of those mega banks? I haven't for twenty years. In other words, what have you done in a positive, constructive way. We would all like to know.

[Limor Wolf]

Originally posted by Gripreaper: " We have been duped, lied to, covertly and overtly manipulated...The corporatocracy is NOT United States, but it is global is scope"

This is indeed a global engeneering, and the root of the evil seed is ubiquitous, the U.S is a core to this corporation mechanism as it was deliberately and calculatedly build as the symbol of 'the land where dreams and manifestations come true' not only in the eyes of American citizens but all over the world and by this the orchastrated degenration and collapse will only intensify as this same symbol-dream that so many are leaning on and drinking it's kool-aid from is about to fade away, and hope is also so called about to diminishe. This is how the 'ones in the know' contol society.

While it is necessary and worthwhile to acknowledge the various diseases and ailments we are infectd with for the sake of diagnosis and healing, I agree with gripreaper and others that there is no use in battering the dog on the head, it will not serve to do but only those who wish to see us repeatedly reproducing this lack of unity, dividness and separation which continues to torn us apart. frustration is very well understood (to a large degree!), but it must not hold us apart. Our future as a planet and the future of our race is depndent on it. It is that serious, yes.

[ThePythonicCow]

The BoilingFrogsPost Roundtable hosted an excellent discussion on the topic of this thread: Why Are Americans So Apathetic? (And what can be done about it?) - BFP Roundtable between:

• Sibel Edmonds of Boiling Frogs Post
• James Corbett of Corbett Report
• Peter B. Collins of PeterBCollins.com
• Guillermo Jimenez of TracesOfReality.com

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=0IzsNW0OFbk

The BFP Roundtable takes on the public apathy surrounding the illegal wars of aggression, the extrajudicial drone assassinations, the illegal warrantless wiretapping, and other outrages of our era. Why is the public so passive in the face of such abuses? And what can be done about it?

===

P.S. -- Aha - Giovonni has already posted this video in the separate thread Why Are Americans So Apathetic? And what can be done about it?.

[Limor Wolf]

Originally posted by Paul: "Why is the public so passive in the face of such abuses? And what can be done about it? "

These are very good questions. Are there any answers to it in this video discussion? is mass mind controll is mentioned as one of the most substantial reasons?

Far away from you, in Israel, and with a lot of personal data I accumulated this last year I can say that there are deep and a lot more sinister reasons than anyone may believe (at this point) as to why certain countries are systematically more apathetic in nature than others. These countries are under a type of a 'state experimentation', just as is hapenning with individuals under governmental programs. I have heard someone mentions no less than 15 such countries around the world.

China was always under this type of experimentation and it's citizens (which I greatly respect and refer to here in a generalized manner only) are one of the most obedient in the world. They are an example of the new world order in microcosm as is North Korea. The transference of power to this part of the world only points towards the intent for the whole of the global society in the rather near future.

I wouldn't like to take this issue a lot further, as it might exceed the limits of acceptance of some of the participants of this thread, after all, 'waking up' has it's stages and momentum with each and every one, as much as we ask it from others, but I may say that the one card left on the table, not yet turned is that of - modification behaviour which comes in large doses. There are a few more things that yet need to surface.

My hope is that all this is like a relay race and the few who have started the run will attract others with their awarness on these matters, draw them and with time pass the torch between everyone. That is the nature of consciousness. They can't do anything about it. But it requries our own awrness to the important and quite disagreeable dark issues too and in depth. Question is, can we do it?

[Curt]

The great speech from Network where Mr. Beale is sat down and told how it all really works.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=jxiT30N6ti4

[The Royal Wizard]

Well. I havn't read all GuyFox's posts. But this one I can't find insulting. There is nothing personal in it. Sometimes it's nessessary to speak without all the filters between thoughts and words. And, he is not stating in the headline, but asking a question. I find the question rather important and may apply to many countries, including mine (Norway). Wheater or not there is a point in debating this issue is another thing, this is not the forum to reach the masses who may be the ones that really need to hear what GuyFox has to say.

That being said, this is what I call an insult: "Whatever truth you may be spewing is lost to your filthy attitude and insisting on atacks and insults" quote Jake. This is personal, and with all due respect, is not, as far as I can see, filled with respect,is it, the same virtue that is asked for by the mod?

But who am I to speak out, the dude that gets pepper for his first posts, because I offended (this word again) the wrong person, unintentionally of course. I hardly never write "in here", and there is a good reason for it.....

as allways, all the best

TRW

[Redstar Kachina]

..........

[mosquito]

Posted by Limor (here)

China was always under this type of experimentation and it's citizens (which I greatly respect and refer to here in a generalized manner) are one of the most obedient in the world. They are an example of the new world order in microcosm

My dear Limor, you couldn't be more wrong if you tried !

Yes - the Chinese are respectful of authority, but they are also completely lawless, obeying only the laws that suit them (sound familiar - as this is a thread about the USA ?)

There was an article on David Icke's website within the last 2 months, copied from Infowars, about a recent incident in China. I contemplated posting it, but know it's a complete waste of time posting anything on this forum that contradicts americans' worldview, so I didn't. Maybe someone here who knows their way around Infowars can find it. It was about the Chinese street police force (whose name escapes me), they were being excessively bothersome towards some street vendors, and do you know what happened ? The people beat the sh1t out of them, overturned and set fire to their vehicles. Would that happen in gun-toting america ? NO !

Americans appear to be perfectly content to allow morons in uniform to strip search them, perform body-cavity searches on them, sexually assault their children at airports, taser them, attack them, taser and handcuff their children at school and on an increasing number of occasions KILL them, just for questioning the uniformed moron's authority ! It beggars belief.

Would the Chinese people put up with what the americans are happy to put up with ? NO !!

If you want to know who the model NWO population is, look no further than the UK.

Again - I have to wonder whether there is any point in saying this, as virtually no-one here is interested in the real China, but it's worth a shot

[Carmody]

Posted by ghostrider (here)
It is my belief that setting up our money based on the petro-dollar was the beginning of the end... It is said America has exhausted the oil supply, hence the reason for fracking nowadays ....earth takes thousands of years to make oil and we pull millions of barrels per day out of her... It had to run out... Our money will be worth half and the price of things will double overnight ...people will wake up when they go hungry...empty shelves is an eye opener, in a country built on the consumer mentality...

The backside of this, is:

Over three thousand years worth of technological evolution and revolution...this level of hidden high technology, is, right now - in the hands of these groups that hide behind these layers.

That almost every inch of this misery is contrived. That humanity does not need to live this horror, that this given hidden and withheld technology is so far beyond this mess, that it is virtually impossible to communicate how far beyond.

then, to add, that this group, this hidden 'technological elite', has virtually escaped the planet, and left us as damaged and broken, purposely skewed and 'held in a state of enforced retardation' as a 'cover story'.

From here, all we can ascertain, is that our enforced retardation and downturn, is either enforced by an outside group, that the humans in this technological elite hidden group cannot stop......or that hidden technological elite is complicit in that enforced human downturn and enforced retardation. Or some variations thereof.

But the reality of the hidden withheld technologies and freedoms to grow ---that is 1,000 percent real. That humanity's downturn into such strife and destruction is either real, or enforced. That it is most DEFINITELY a 'lie', of some kind. An actual directed and enforced pressure.

For what exact reality and function, is for you to try and discover and understand.

The truth of the matter is not in all the separate bits and pieces on their own, not in any view of just the odd chunk of it.....the shape of what is going on is in the sum of the parts, looked at as a group.

[Carmody]

Posted by mariposafe (here)

Posted by Limor (here)

China was always under this type of experimentation and it's citizens (which I greatly respect and refer to here in a generalized manner) are one of the most obedient in the world. They are an example of the new world order in microcosm

My dear Limor, you couldn't be more wrong if you tried !

Yes - the Chinese are respectful of authority, but they are also completely lawless, obeying only the laws that suit them (sound familiar - as this is a thread about the USA ?)

There was an article on David Icke's website within the last 2 months, copied from Infowars, about a recent incident in China. I contemplated posting it, but know it's a complete waste of time posting anything on this forum that contradicts americans' worldview, so I didn't. Maybe someone here who knows their way around Infowars can find it. It was about the Chinese street police force (whose name escapes me), they were being excessively bothersome towards some street vendors, and do you know what happened ? The people beat the sh1t out of them, overturned and set fire to their vehicles. Would that happen in gun-toting america ? NO !

Americans appear to be perfectly content to allow morons in uniform to strip search them, perform body-cavity searches on them, sexually assault their children at airports, taser them, attack them, taser and handcuff their children at school and on an increasing number of occasions KILL them, just for questioning the uniformed moron's authority ! It beggars belief.

Would the Chinese people put up with what the americans are happy to put up with ? NO !!

If you want to know who the model NWO population is, look no further than the UK.

Again - I have to wonder whether there is any point in saying this, as virtually no-one here is interested in the real China, but it's worth a shot

No matter how much we want to ignore the evidence from genetics and animal husbandry, breeding programs, etc..we have to come to an understanding that Americans, are, for the most part, a completely differently bred and created animal than that of the 7,000 year plus backdrop of the people of China.

The entire evolution of modern America and the genetics and mental design/glasses/view is very much different in some critical ways. Humans can get along, overall, in the same way that various dogs can play together in the given dog park.

But if you put a small furry animal popping out of a hole, in front of that group of dogs, the larger ones will almost ignore it and the 'ratters', the bred small rat collector breeds, all of them will go after that rat with a vengeance. parts of them have been wired into that form, over time, via breeding combined with origins, environment, etc.

We don't like to talk on this subject..it makes people uncomfortable... but you asked the why, well....that is the why.

At the fundamental avatar body level, we are still the animal and we are subject to orientation in metal carrier design, etc..in our breeding, over time..... same as the rest of the mammals on this planet.

~~~~~~~~~~
Over a given day, about 12% of a person's actions, motions, etc..is conscious thought.

The rest of it, about 88% of it..is pouring out of the hindbrain in genetic and automatic response patterns based on instinct and learning. That only 12% of a person, on a day to day basis, is actually conscious and thinking.

The 12% has the audacity to think that it is in charge and doing all the driving, when that is not the truth, at all. Most of the time, the 12%, if it tries to rise, and understand the whole thing, the 88% tends to put it back to sleep.

As after all, consciousness, this 12%, is merely a high level semi-autonamous program that runs on the surface of the 'human-thing'.

Until the two join together into one consciousness state that is shared and crossed/open at will, much more than it is right now, until that happens...things will not really ever change. Until this given base formula changes...anywhere and everywhere on this planet - the results will remain the same.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=7gcQDuv_Kb0

We look at people, we look at the world and all we see, in general, is that ~12%.....and call it the whole of the world, the whole of humanity.

We are missing the 88%, in our calculations, for the most part.

And THAT, is the place we are manipulated. Through that easy to access 88%.

(the guy in the video is shown accessing the officer's 88% that is the real driver of the officer's 'self'.... and skips out of a ticket where he was doing double the speed limit and blowing a stop sign.)

[Carmody]

Do something smart, like take a piece of paper, and write:

"88% asleep"

..and put that on your refrigerator, where you have to look at it many times a day.

Every time your body drives you to the icebox to eat, you will have a short moment of awakening, and you will begin to note just how asleep you are.

If you don't do something like this, that 88%, that enforces the flow and direction of that 12%, that 88% will put that 12% back to sleep. Every day. Over and over and over, so you don't even realize it is happening. This goes on with near 100% of the people on this planet. 99.999%, or thereabouts.

If you put that on the refrigerator, you'll catch it happening. It will begin to dawn on the 12% that is reading this.....what the hell actually goes on in and with people, with/in your given self.

Then.. the old saw, the old story, the old saying... about what to do in a world that is off-kilter, that point that is always said and always ignored, it finally comes home. That fixing the world has everything to do with change in the self ...and almost nothing to do with trying to change, to enforce change in the world.

Outer attacks, outer motions mean nothing, nothing at all, if the change within has not taken place.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To return the the subject of the thread. do Americans, deserve the trouble flowing their way?

No more than the other 6.7 billion people on the planet, whom each have 88% of themselves asleep and automatic, that being the real and true driver of themselves.

An 88% which is accessed when it is desired to be accessed, by those who understand this...and desire to control them, to move them about like pawns on a chessboard.

One monkey asleep and slapping another (Arguing on forums and whatnot).... is not going to change that ..but only focus it deeper into controls (emotions rise and block consciousness and it's emergence)--- and it is also a common tactic. A time honored tactic, used because it works... used by those who control via the asleep 88% component of people.

[Kelly Anne]

Posted by risveglio (here)
I think we need to separate a person living in the United States from the actions of the United States government. Isn't the consensus on this site that the government leaders we elect are not really in control or just part of the game? I think the number of people that have become aware of the irrelevance of government over the last 4 years is quite miraculous and soon, with our without a consciousness raise, the government will be needed less and less. They know this and that is why they are pushing so hard now.

The electric car is 2-3 years away from becoming the next big thing, this will make oil cheap. Driverless cars are right around the corner, there goes your speeding tickets, reckless driving, most car accidents, and the need for traffic cops and the revenue they bring in. There are companies out there that provide high quality, gmo free, organic foods for an affordable rate and some even allow you to share in the profits. There are scientists out there working on free energy, they may not find it but they may discover cheaper energy. Look how many of our cool products were just an accident.

We just need to teach us to be positive, to love and to show those that still think voting for which bullet they kill you with matters. We need to stop praising the military, we need to tell our current service men to lay down there weapons and say we are not doing this anymore.

We are winning. The problem is that the only way we win is when enough of us have become free. Free of mind control. Free of the poison. Free of the hate. Free of the worry and the anger. And when you become free, or understand what it means to be free, SHARE IT. If you are wealthy and deserve to be, then teach those that are not wealthy how to become wealthy. If you don't deserve it, pay someone to teach you how to stay wealthy and then teach someone. If you are filled with compassion, teach someone how to have compassion. If you are filled with love, teach someone to love. If you feel like you are different, like you have a right to be angry, filled with your own self doubt, sulking in your depression or your sickness, look inside and figure out how you can work on it and fix it so you can be taught to be wealthy and filled with compassion and love.

Don't blame the people living in the section of the world called by some the United States of America, most of us have nothing to do with our government.

I hear and understand and feel what you are saying.

My view though that as far as the government goes, the people here have to own a certain credit for the mere fact that as you stated that most of us have nothing to do with our government. A lot of people no matter where they are this happens. I include myself in this.

I think the seemed blaming from those who do not live here comes from a frustration. It is actually a 'yell' saying to us "We know the citizens of the United States are not stupid and we want to see them in action."

If they didn't care about us and the world and thought we could not make a difference, then there would be no outcry at all.

The big picture of the problems in the United States have so many different angles, facets, and tentacles. As the people of this part of the world come out of our slumber there are a lot of obstacles that need to be overcome until any difference is seen by the rest of the world as far as any open change in our government.

Our bodies heal from the inside out...I think this is true with the United States. Our government is the skin...what the world has a focus on and see's first along with the baubles and clothing that the country wears (Media, Celebrity, Entertainment...).

I do not know my role or place in the changes that need to be made yet, as I am still discovering my renewed acceleration/understanding in this.

I am not sure if I will ever reach a point where I will be able to see a direct impact on any governmental level for now...I have a lot to work out and sift through. This is a big multi-task thing I have to work on.

I am new to my recent escalated awareness in the role the United States has globally.

My realizations were brought on by various events in my life. These events I would have never imagined I would be where I am today in so many ways..Some good and some not.

Some citizens of the United States will have a spiritual personal inside journey of healing, and some have already and need to share as you stated.

This will seem slow to some and more rapid to others.

Impatience, blame and criticism are what we make of it. I have yet to encounter any that are near as harsh as what I put on myself.

[Pam]

Posted by Jake (here)

Posted by mpennery (here)

Posted by Jake (here)
Good morning, all!

Hello Guyfox! Mod hat on, brother... I can see that you cannot discourse without insulting and/or attacking people.

Whatever truth you may be spewing is lost to your filthy attitude and insisting on atacks and insults.

Folks,, Guyfox needs our help to understand that Avalon is not a place where we disrespect one another.

Guyfox... Do you see how that works??? Your approach to the truth is repulsive and puts everyone off...

I know that you have the ability to craft your words in a way that inspires intelligent debate. Please, adopt a more mature attitude towards people, or find another group of people to insult!!

Jake.

Wow. Filthy attitude? Repulsive? I am simply shocked at your attitude, "brother."
Too many people have their heads in the sand. We Americans sit and do practically nothing while our government destroys the world and murders innocent people every single day and produces and sells more illegal drugs than any other country or organization in the world. All in our name!! I'm sorry but it really pisses me off to know MY representatives are literally all over the world slaughtering people for our country's materialistic pursuits. What if it was YOUR wedding party that got drone bombed, your family that was MURDERED in cold blood, your legitimately elected government overthrown, just so the American people could continue their materialistic pursuits and not have to face the truth of what was going on in the world.
Sorry but sometimes hard truth is in order and, sometimes, the truth hurts. Good. I want it to hurt. Pain is a valuable teacher. Again, our country is murdering people and the planet and I am glad some folks from other countries are strong enough to say so. We need to hear it!

To Goldenwaters: You're right. It's not JUST Americans but Americans are leading the way in all the evil categories, while also trying to always claim the moral high ground and say our crap doesn't stink. Even though you are obviously not one of the people who we are calling out, and we could use a hell of a lot more of people like you, as much as it sucks, you do live in the US and your elected reps ARE in fact the greatest offender of the elite...and they are doing it in YOUR name, with your permission. Mine, too. I am just as guilty. I don't raise nearly as much stink as I should. I am an enabler. But I think, as ugly as the truth is, we have to get it out. Again, think of this from the point of view of someone who is being directly effected by our tyranny and our idiotic consumerism. You think they want us to play nice and not offend each other while we argue about who's responsible or who's words are too offensive? NO!

Thank you for a well thought out and responsible reply! The subject matter is open for debate, as always. What is NOT open for debate are the forum guidelines, which clearly requests that we do not insult and/or attack others.

I do not plan to distract any more from this discussion. GuyFox,, I know you can do it, ... Just TRY and not insult people.

Sorry for the interruption.
Jake.

'

I wonder if you are not letting you "Moderator" status go to your head. Isn't that how all this trouble began in the first place? I don't find accusing someone of a "filthy attitude" being respectful of others. Does your little bit of authority make you exempt?

[Limor Wolf]

Posted by mariposafe (here)

Posted by Limor (here)

China was always under this type of experimentation and it's citizens (which I greatly respect and refer to here in a generalized manner) are one of the most obedient in the world. They are an example of the new world order in microcosm

My dear Limor, you couldn't be more wrong if you tried !

Yes - the Chinese are respectful of authority, but they are also completely lawless, obeying only the laws that suit them (sound familiar - as this is a thread about the USA ?)

There was an article on David Icke's website within the last 2 months, copied from Infowars, about a recent incident in China. I contemplated posting it, but know it's a complete waste of time posting anything on this forum that contradicts americans' worldview, so I didn't. Maybe someone here who knows their way around Infowars can find it. It was about the Chinese street police force (whose name escapes me), they were being excessively bothersome towards some street vendors, and do you know what happened ? The people beat the sh1t out of them, overturned and set fire to their vehicles. Would that happen in gun-toting america ? NO !

Americans appear to be perfectly content to allow morons in uniform to strip search them, perform body-cavity searches on them, sexually assault their children at airports, taser them, attack them, taser and handcuff their children at school and on an increasing number of occasions KILL them, just for questioning the uniformed moron's authority ! It beggars belief.

Would the Chinese people put up with what the americans are happy to put up with ? NO !!

If you want to know who the model NWO population is, look no further than the UK.

Again - I have to wonder whether there is any point in saying this, as virtually no-one here is interested in the real China, but it's worth a shot

Hi mariposafe, There is nothing that pleases me more than to be wrong, especially in such matters, and I wholeheartedly appologise if that may have ofended you. There are usually two layers in such a discussion and I greatly resonate with the sensitivity involved since the amount of times the various wrong assumptions were made against the residents of Israel is too numerous to count.

There is, however, the indvidual aspect and there is also the nation's one, the first is contrary to all statements, and that is why it is indeed important to hear about 'the real China' or the 'real Israel', as the 'real' is the humane part of the everyday living of our brothers and sisters. Then there is the bird's eye view aspect of the history and governance of any one country, and it might tell a different story. There is a unifiction characteristics of events in China that set the 'inner social rules' which were implemented within the society that points more on compliance and less on free thinking and making decisions independently, the more familiar example is that of the number of children allowed in every family unit, which is a governmental decision, (justified or not) and not an individual one.

30 years of Maoism has evidently left a conditioning of some sort, a one sovereign ruler and party which is the exclusive decision maker, is in a nutshell, the conundrum of the New World Order. An economy where billions are enslaved to an industry where the clock ticks 12 hours of work a day, seven days a week for pennies.. well, you get my drift.

Israelis are in majority too brainwashed to inquire about the real necessity of the next planned war or attack on Gaza and are blindly accepting any false reasons given to them by the government on their behalf, the Americans actually have quite the resistance to government decisions when it comes to invading another country, or at least there is a tremendous resurgence in this matter.

However way we look at it, it seems that we are living in a world that is infected with a plague that has widely spread and now threatens the well-being of the patient (our planet), in it's inability to characterize the problem and implement a solution, which gives others the opportunity to exploit this to the Maximum

I especially liked this two sentences-

Originally posted by Carmody: " Outer attacks, outer motions mean nothing, nothing at all, if the change within has not taken place."

Originally posted by Kelly Ann: " Impatience, blame and criticism are what we make of it. I have yet to encounter any that are near as harsh as what I put on myself.

Blessings ~

Limor

[giovonni]

i think everyone needs to be reminded (especially those who never read it) that all this ruckus began with the initial OP's thread title ... Which i found as offensive (to American's living in the U.S.) ... It has nothing to do with his opening post ...

Please note Guyfox changed it .... and that was that ... Carry On ...

[Shezbeth]

Pardon me GuyFox - and any other participants - while I take a moment to clarify something.

Posted by wnlight (here)
Well. Im not going to take the bait and start piling on insults after insults.

I will now prove that this statement is entirely false and that the post in its entirety is either:
A. an actual account of what occurred subjectively
B. a series of subliminal trigger to cause the reader to shift out of the rational/thinking mind and toward/into either pure emotion and feelings (the reptile complex) and/or an artificially prescribed perception
C. all of the above

For the remainder, I will assume the answer is either B or C. Please note that with this and the following observations at no point am I suggesting it is a conscious or conspired decision, only indicating a possible cause and effect. All underlines are added for emphasis by me. Please refer to the previous 12%/88% post - thanks Carmody - for more on this. Beware of subliminals and neuro-linguistic programming!

I did feel the heat rise on the back of my neck for a few seconds. Thanks, Guy Fox, a little emotion now and then is a good thing.

These phrases can cause a reader to perceive the sensation, to visualize the experience. The result is a reactionary shift mentioned in B.

Here's a tip: I don't think you will influence many here with your insults. Another tip: I haven't read anything new in your posts.

This could be seen as a rhetorical statement implying that the reader can dismiss GuyFox's posts entirely on a basis of perceived insult, with the suggestion that there is nothing new to them. The suggestion of insults - which has already been stated is a subjective reaction/perception - is its self a repetition.

So... Did you know that the MSM were once a loose collection of independently owned TV and radio and print media outlets? I suppose that was you out there demonstrating in the streets when the laws were changed so that a few large corporations could buy up the independents and create the MSM tat you hate.

This question is only minimally applicable, and implicitly undermines/dismisses GF's opinion and has little relevance to the discussion. The following statement implies that 'if/having not been protesting, GF is unentitled to maintain a position of disdain or defiance of the MSM'. This could be construed as rhetoric and of no credible substance.

Did you participate in any of the fights to keep Walmart out of your neighbourhood or city?

Again, implicit dismissal based on out-of-context qualifiers and an attempt to establish GF's ineligibility through unrelated requirements.

Do you have a credit card or bank account from one of those mega banks? I haven't for twenty years.

Another attempt to establish ineligibility, this suggesting that having a credit card or bank account precludes one from having a particular opinion/voice on the matter, followed by a self-qualier excluding from exclusion.

In other words, what have you done in a positive, constructive way. We would all like to know.

The 'we' in this case could suggest a consensus - which is arguable in the least - and the demand for qualification is distractionary in the least.

Censor hat off.

LISTEN UP EVERYONE! No one who didn't protest the purchase of media outlets, or who didn't prevent Wal-Mart from moving in nearby, or who has a bank account/credit card, or who is unwilling to discuss their activist/charitable resume in this thread is entitled to a strong and outspoken opinion in/on this thread. All those who do must now exit.

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

GuyFox, say the word and I will vanish this post (assuming I'm not vanished for it! )

[Jake]

Guyfox. I apologize for insulting your attitude... I guess I wanted to step into the shoes of someone who leads with insults, and see how that worked out for me...

1.) I fell terrible about it.
2.) Nobody is discussing the subject matter at hand.
3.) There is a division among members that leaves a stink in the air.
4.) I cannot do what I do best. (Make friends with members, especially those that I don't get along with at first.)


As a moderater, who takes his duties seriously,, I will impose a small vacation on myself,, to think about what I've done. Shame on me for insulting another member.

Love to all.
Jake.

P.S. to GuyFox... I am not afraid to grow, for that I thank you. And I challenge you to do the same.

[Limor Wolf]

Posted by Cristian (here)
Jake has the best "poker face" : P . No other mod/admin can appear so harsh, distant and cold while hiding deep inside such a big heart...

Despite the Anonymous avatar, nothing that is titled 'harsh, distant and cold' resembles Jake, the heart is his best and known feature and he is a very good friend and mod. We all have our days..

[giovonni]

That's commendable for you to offer Jake, But i don't believe you need to apologies to anyone here .. For those of us who read the first PO's thread title ... Only reacted to the initial energy put forth. As a new member Guyfox needs to use better discretion when choosing thread title postings.

Enough Said

[Curt]

All of us here are witnessing the same thing: the destruction of our human family.

We see the forces lined up against us. We recognise our own culpability. And it's bleak.

So there's a lot of passion in this subject. And a lot of pain, too.

The topic goes right to the heart of what's wrong with 'us'. So emotions can run high even in folks who are normally even-tempered.

We ought to do what we can to take a hit or two and not respond- out of respect for our fellow members who are expressing passionate positions. They're doing their best to say what they need to say.

Or, at least, that's what I'm seeing.

And by and large, that's exactly what is happening.