Book tips about native american spiritual traditions?

[Arak]

Hi,

Since a child I have been intrested in native american traditions - especially spiritual traditions. Some time ago I also learnt that it is most likely becouse of my previous lives as a native shaman/witch.

And not long ago I read the book called "The Wind is my Mother" by Bear Heart and was truly impressed about all the wisdom in it. Also earlier read Don Miguel Ruiz's "The four agreements" which was also awesome book.

Now I would love to learn more. Any good advices?

[DeDukshyn]

I have the same interest - particularly in NA native spirituality. Do we have any first nations people on the forum that could help with at least pointing in a direction to get started?

I also loved the Toltec philosophies that don Miguel Ruiz was able to write about - so simple but such truths.

I'll be checking back

[Dorjezigzag]

Ever read any Carlos Castaneda, there is some controversy surrounding them but they are a great read and Castaneda was a PHD in anthropology.

Although Many Native Americans do not view them in a positive light.

Be aware that there is as much varying opinion among native Americans than any other group of peoples.

Interestingly you can see connections with Eastern shamanic practices and Native Amercican. For example the sand mandala painting in Tibetan buddhism ( which still has a strong shamanic core, through the bon traditions) can be connected with the sand painting of native Americans such as the navajo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandpainting

This is understandable when you consider the physical similarities between the people.

[Arak]

What I have read about Castaneda doesnt really encourage me to read his books. Many are fictional and to my knowledge even his non-fictional books might base on fictional characters.

And yes, it is quite likely that native americans once travelled from Asia to NA and from there to southern parts. So cultural connections are very possible as well are physical resemblances with Asian people. But I am not an expert in these things, so please correct me if I am wrong.

[Tyy1907]

When I was younger native american spirituality totally drew me into it. It felt like they "had it right" compared to say modern christianity-which my Dad really tried to push on me. Heres a few I enjoyed:

Rolling Thunder Speaks-can't remember the authors name, it was his wife who compiled all of his recordings to make the book. Has a lot of home remedies derived from nature of course. Also a very direct take on spirituality and the state of the world as Rolling Thunder saw it.

The Tracker by Tom Brown jr. - Excellent book on NA spirituality with nature and animal tracking mixed in. The author is now a professional tracker that has been hired to work on homicides and missing persons cases.

Red Elk interviews on Coast to Coast AM-they're on youtube, not a book but a really interesting perspective on things he's got. He's a medicine man and an inner Heyokah member. Some of what he speaks of may not be for the faint of heart, just a heads up. He taught me to really drop everything I've been taught about religion, etc. and really just explore for myself. Not to blindly believe everything we hear but to critically think for ourselves, among many other things.

Listen to the drum by Blackhawk Jones - focussed on NA spirituality for beginners kind of and has a few exercises in it that help to become one with nature. I had a really cool experience happen to me while I was reading this book. I woke up literally egoless one afternoon. It was one of the most freeing states of being. It kind of went away after a few hours, but it was still amazing nonetheless.

[Dorjezigzag]

Many are fictional and to my knowledge even his non-fictional books might base on fictional characters.

Allegedly, there are many books that attempt to debunk Castaneda, some make a quite convincing case

Whatever the truth there is some knowledge in those books, you can question the 'truth' of many mythologies but it does not take away from the knowledge contained within them.

Many on this forum have experienced the wisdom in Castaneda's books, I have had many profound experiences related to them.

[Arak]

Posted by Tyy1907 (here)
When I was younger native american spirituality totally drew me into it. It felt like they "had it right" compared to say modern christianity-which my Dad really tried to push on me. Heres a few I enjoyed:

Rolling Thunder Speaks-can't remember the authors name, it was his wife who compiled all of his recordings to make the book. Has a lot of home remedies derived from nature of course. Also a very direct take on spirituality and the state of the world as Rolling Thunder saw it.

The Tracker by Tom Brown jr. - Excellent book on NA spirituality with nature and animal tracking mixed in. The author is now a professional tracker that has been hired to work on homicides and missing persons cases.

Red Elk interviews on Coast to Coast AM-they're on youtube, not a book but a really interesting perspective on things he's got. He's a medicine man and an inner Heyokah member. Some of what he speaks of may not be for the faint of heart, just a heads up. He taught me to really drop everything I've been taught about religion, etc. and really just explore for myself. Not to blindly believe everything we hear but to critically think for ourselves, among many other things.

Listen to the drum by Blackhawk Jones - focussed on NA spirituality for beginners kind of and has a few exercises in it that help to become one with nature. I had a really cool experience happen to me while I was reading this book. I woke up literally egoless one afternoon. It was one of the most freeing states of being. It kind of went away after a few hours, but it was still amazing nonetheless.

Thank you very much! That list looks very intresting!

Many on this forum have experienced the wisdom in Castaneda's books, I have had many profound experiences related to them.

I try my best to be open minded, so what book would you recommend to read from Castaneda?

[spiritguide]

Here are a few links with Native American Indian knowledge on them.

http://robertmorningsky.com/index.html#top Elder and author.

http://www.whitebuffalocalfwoman.net/ Rainbow tribe

http://www.cowasuck.org/ First nations Abenakis tribe

Enjoy your journey!

Peace!

[Dorjezigzag]

Probably best to follow the order they were released, but if synchronicity brings a certain book at a certain time you may want to do that, it's your journey.

I think a lot of them you can get for free as pdfs online and I think there are some audio readings of them on youtube

1. The Teachings of don Juan
2. A Separate Reality
3. Journey to Ixtlan
4. Tales Of Power
5. The Second Ring of Power
6. The Eagle's Gift
7. The Fire From Within
8. The Power of Silence
9. The Art of Dreaming
12. The Active Side of Infinity
13. Appendix A thru E

Be warned if you start to identify your self as a shaman from these traditions you may be given the label of plastic shaman, I think there is a lot of knowledge from the native americans traditions, I am currently in North America myself and I have been meeting with some elders but the Nordic traditions from scandinavia are just as fascinating


...this is not a work of fiction. What I am
describing is alien to us; therefore, it
seems unreal.
CARLOS CASTANEDA
(From The Eagle's Gift; prologue)

Nothing in the world is a gift.
Whatever there is to learn has to be
learned the hard way.

[Milneman]

Ok, different suggestion.

Avoid the books. Here's why.

The traditions are living and oral. You can't get true "teachings" from books. There's a term that some people use in connection with people who study these tradition in books and then attempt to practice: plastic.

Here's what I suggest you do. Get some tobacco. Any time you want to make a request of someone, you offer (in the Tradition I learned at least) tobacco. They may refuse you, and not take the tobacco. Or they may take it and agree. Find/contact the nearest Friendship Center or Tribal Council. Explain you're interested in learning about the culture. If there are powwows in your area, GO. And prepare yourself. If you've never experienced what it's like to be a minority you may very well do. I've been to powwows where I and my companions were the only whites.

Don't be surprised if people are suspicious of you. Seriously. Hundreds of years of oppression is going to do that. So expect it. You have to earn people's trust, especially if you're wanting to delve into concepts and traditions that are Sacred. S A C R E D. I was lucky that I had a Metis teacher who got me in to places and people who fast tracked me into learning about stuff. I still look back on my 20's and early 30's and smile at what I got up to.

Books will never do you justice. People who charge for ceremony? Avoid. At all costs. For real. They should take tobacco, maybe tobacco and cloth, depending on your request or interest.

PM me if you need some direction. I'll see what I can do to line you up with someone.

Congrats! If you're sincere about this, you're about to embark on a very, very remarkable journey. I loved every moment I was on the Red Road.

[ghostrider]

Go out and find a real native American , and get to know his family , and speak to the elders , if you have an honest heart they will share more than can ever be printed in a book ...

[Shezbeth]

There are a variety of sources that indicate that Castaneda's work is both allegorical and factual/authentic; the truth IMO, is irrelevant to the information imparted. It could be that his work is a summary of the things he learned as an anthropologist, or it could be a historical account. It is impossible to ascertain as he is deceased, but there is still a potential wealth to be had in consuming his books. Dorje is right about both chronological order and the potential significance of synchronicity; for me, the the story began with Journey to Ixtlan, but that is largely because many of the events were mirrored in my own experience.

[Arak]

Posted by Milneman (here)
Avoid the books. Here's why.

The traditions are living and oral. You can't get true "teachings" from books.

It was really good advice Milneman you gave there. And I hope that anyone who is living in NA and shares my interest will see that post and take the advice.

I however live in Finland. And even to visit NA shortly is next to impossible at the current financial situation (just lost job + been struggling with bills already before). And here in Finland we don't have native americans to my knowledge. So at the given time I don't see any options but to walk the plastic road and hope that the Great Spirit will guide me to the right direction.

After ice-age Finland used to have "own" shamanistic traditions for thousands of years also, but after Christianity came that tradition was destroyed and buried. There has been some revival of traditions, but as the real knowledge is mostly gone the traditions are based on more or less educated guesses. Also, for some reason I relate to NA natives and not to Finnish shamans.

I might ask you few questions though and sure you have my permission to help any way possible. Thank you and everyone else who has contributed this thread so far! I really appreciate it.

[Dorjezigzag]

The Sami people (also Sámi or Saami), traditionally known in English as Lapps or Laplanders, are the indigenous Finno-Ugric people inhabiting the Arctic area of Sápmi, which today encompasses parts of far northern Norway, Sweden, Finland, the Kola Peninsula of Russia, and the border area between south and middle Sweden and Norway.

Parallelism in Sioux and Sami Spiritual Traditions

The ancient spiritualities of both cultures contain the same fundamental ideas and use virtually identical symbols to convey those ideas. Both spiritual traditions metaphorically describe the Sun as the father of all and the Earth as the mother of all. In both spiritual traditions, the symbolically masculine Sun represents the father-like central source point which is transcendent of the transitory physical world of the four directions. In both traditions this eternal consciousness or source pours into the field of time through the symbolically feminine mother Earth and is characterized through a vast array of gods which are all ultimately part of this one mysterious thing represented by the Sun.

For the Sioux and the Sami, all of nature is viewed as being “alive”; they both possess an animistic perception of the universe. Their worldview is thus radically different from a modern perspective, emphasizing a sacred connection and interdependence of all things— including their prey and their enemies. Sioux society was primarily based on the buffalo, from which they derived everything they needed to survive. The itinerant patterns of the buffalo forced the Sioux to live nomadically in impermanent settlements, and their existence as a tribal unit was based on the movement of the buffalo herds. The Sami were herders of another animal, the reindeer, whom they developed an almost symbiotic relationship with over many centuries. As the Sioux did with the buffalo, the Sami always made maximum use of the reindeer as food and commodities were often scarce in the harsh winter environment. It is as impossible to separate the Sami from their reindeer as it is to separate the Sioux from their buffalo and a deep bond of dependence and spiritual connection existed between each pair. Rather than a context of prey and predator, this relationship was one of coexistence within a sacred and interconnected universe. This worldview based on interconnection is further emboldened by their unwavering adherence and insistence upon it in times of discord, and their humble attitude in the face of great suffering imposed by others.

Both the Sami and the Sioux have faced historical conflicts with encroaching outside groups which resulted in violent confrontations. In the 18th and 19th century, the Sioux were forced from their land and had to continuously evade the superior forces of the U.S. Cavalry. As their lands shrank it became increasingly difficult to find a safe place to live in peace. When the Sioux and forces of the U.S. military did meet, the mass devastation was not surprisingly shouldered by the indigenous peoples unprepared for war, outnumbered and lacking modern technology and weapons. At the Battle of Wounded Knee in 1890, four hundred Sioux men, women and children were massacred. Yet on that terrifying day, the men ran into battle knowing they would be killed with the war cry “It’s a great day to die!” This deep knowledge of the interconnectedness and sacredness of all life had totally freed them from a materialistic conception of self and the fear of death.

For many hundreds of years, the Sami have faced encroachments by the Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish and Russian governments which have attempted to assimilate the Sami, levy taxes on them, divide the land they once freely roamed and impose restrictions on movement between borders. The Sami also faced more violent and overt forms of oppression, especially in Norway and Sweden, where in the early part of the twentieth century the Norwegian government implemented efforts to wipe out Sami culture. Additionally, the Sami faced confrontation by roaming groups of armed warriors known as the Tsjudes. This conflict is the focus of Nils Gaup’s 1987 film Pathfinder. Though based partially on legend, as a work of art the film contains many scenes which capture the heart of the Sami spiritual philosophy and its resilience in the face of adversity. In one of these scenes Aigin, a boy who has recently witnessed the slaughter of his entire family by the Tsjudes, is consulted by Raste, the shaman. Raste, instead of consoling Aigin, tells him to do away with his feelings of revenge because he is connected by invisible bonds to the Tsjudes and all other things through an infinite brotherhood. Raste explains that the Tsjudes have simply forgotten this fundamental truth and warns Aigin that to forget it would make him a Tsjude. For both groups, this deeply held conviction in the underlying unity of all life not only places their relationship to enemies and prey into a radically different framework than conventional or modern perspective, but it is a crucial component of their cultural identity.

http://www.utexas.edu/courses/sami/d...aralellism.htm

[Milneman]

Arak?

Go out and walk on the land. Just...listen. Let the land be your teacher. The teachings started that way, then passed on from elder to student, for millennia. You really are at the beginning of an amazing journey.

[Tyy1907]

Posted by Milneman (here)
Arak?

Go out and walk on the land. Just...listen. Let the land be your teacher. The teachings started that way, then passed on from elder to student, for millennia. You really are at the beginning of an amazing journey.

That reminds me "Listen to the drum" has an exercise that says to hug a tree. Yep, go up to any tree, doesn't matter who's around wrap your arms around it and just turn your head off. Relax and just be with the tree. It explains it better in the book. Also here's a video that is totally along the lines that Milneman just mentioned.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=hTpSh-ysIEI

[Mixteca]

Hi Arak,

I was raised in a Mixtec village in Oaxaca and as a result went through a similar search. I wanted to find something that was not a "sociologist" take on a culture someone was observing from the outside, but a definitive text written from the inside.

The most authentic and comprehensive book that I have encountered about any native American belief system is "The Book of Destiny" by Carlos Barrios. This book is about the entire Mayan way of thought. Carlos Barrios is a Mayan shaman and a member of the Council of Elders. The Council of Elders as a whole asked Mr. Barrios to write this book so that there would be an accurate portrayal of their belief system in the world during a time when there was nothing but misrepresentation about their beliefs available. It is the ONLY text authorized and supported by the entire Council of Elders. You can find it on Amazon.

[Mixteca]

Posted by Milneman (here)
Avoid the books. Here's why.

The traditions are living and oral. You can't get true "teachings" from books. There's a term that some people use in connection with people who study these tradition in books and then attempt to practice: plastic.

Here's what I suggest you do. Get some tobacco. Any time you want to make a request of someone, you offer (in the Tradition I learned at least) tobacco. They may refuse you, and not take the tobacco. Or they may take it and agree. Find/contact the nearest Friendship Center or Tribal Council.

Don't be surprised if people are suspicious of you. Seriously. Hundreds of years of oppression is going to do that. So expect it.

People who charge for ceremony? Avoid. At all costs. For real. They should take tobacco, maybe tobacco and cloth, depending on your request or interest.

I agree with a this with a few important caveats:

The Barrios book I mentioned in my own post is an exception. The Mayans feel very strongly that their oral tradition be spoken exactly and precisely, with no changes AT ALL - for hundreds of years now (if not thousands). This can be hard to understand without a lot of context. The Barrios book give both the historic words of the Maya as well as the ability to understand it.

Tobacco (organic) is a good start. I would add that any information you can get about a given tribes traditional gifts would be good, as well as something that comes sincerely from you (I made fresh bread that was deeply appreciated and led to a deep friendship.)

Charging for ceremonies: this varies significantly from tradition to tradition. There was a dispute and misunderstanding between visiting Maya and the Hochunk in WI over this matter. The key is to learn and respect the tradition you are learning about. Ceremonies are NOT cheap. Candles cost money, incense costs money, flowers cost money. If someone is visiting and can't harvest these things from their area, it is absurd to expect those visiting to also bear the cost of the supplies for the ceremony they are being asked to do. It is considered incredibly rude.

I know amazing and powerful Mixtec and Mayan shamans. I have also met native american "shamans" who are happy to take advantage of the clueless. People are people - good and bad in every group, regardless of tradition. Understand resistance and mistrust you may encounter, but don't let that factor supercede your gut feeling about being treated ethically.

[Arak]

Great advices. Thank you people very much. There is much more to study now and that is just what I wanted. I already am spending quite alot of time in the nature, evenn hugging trees and sometimes playing my shaman drum in the woods. Once it was really cool as totally white rabbit got curious about my drumming and got very close before noticed me and my wife and ran away. I also have done some shamanistic trips already (no drugs involved, I dont use any) and met some spirit folks downthere.

[Milneman]

Posted by Tyy1907 (here)

Posted by Milneman (here)
Arak?

Go out and walk on the land. Just...listen. Let the land be your teacher. The teachings started that way, then passed on from elder to student, for millennia. You really are at the beginning of an amazing journey.

That reminds me "Listen to the drum" has an exercise that says to hug a tree. Yep, go up to any tree, doesn't matter who's around wrap your arms around it and just turn your head off. Relax and just be with the tree. It explains it better in the book. Also here's a video that is totally along the lines that Milneman just mentioned.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=hTpSh-ysIEI

omg Ty...

One of us has to start a thread on the crooked trees. (OT OT OT) lol You game?