Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

[Jayren]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=h-rkWkwLV54

See what you can get from this video.

[Hervé]

#MH17: Why I Leave It There

In the Opinion of the Editor July 18, 2014

July 18, 2014, by Marcel Sardo (@marcelsardo)

“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers.”
— Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow

As tragic as the downing of the Malaysian Airliner MH17 is, I have decided to remove myself from the ongoing debate and the search for What Really Happened.

Most of you will agree with me that the whole Story stinks. And most of you will agree, that since the doomed Airliner crashed onto the plains of Eastern Ukraine, all the finger pointing – from the very first moments – was directed at Russia, even though the only ones benefitting from this tragedy are Kiev, and supporters of the criminal and illegitimate Junta, who are waging war against their own people.

There is too much information now about that Airliner, too much counter information, misinformation, half information and information that contradicts all the information just mentioned.

In other Words:

We are getting distracted from the real issue here: The Freedom Fight of the People in Novorossiya and the fact that a War Against Russia is being laid on Track.

If you think I am exaggerating, then you’re not paying attention – and for sure did not follow today’s UNSC Meeting on this issue.

The narrative is now out and spinning and whoever is familiar with the Western MSM knows that there is no turning back now. The Beast wants to be fed.

We do not have the means to determine who shot that Airplane down and why. It could have been the NAF Forces, whether deliberately or not. It could have been the Kiev Junta, whether deliberately or not.

It was for sure not Russia, because Russia would have gained absolutely nothing from such an act – but this seems to be a logic too complicated to grasp for those who call themselves our “Leaders”.

So there remains two possibilities: The Kiev Junta shot down MH17 to blame it on Russia; or the NAF shot down MH17 by mistaking it for a Military Plane.

Or – and nobody talks about this option – it was a tragic “ordinary“ Air Accident that just happened to occur over a strange place at a strange time – bad luck, bad timing.

Hopefully, time will tell the truth one day, although I would not bet any money on that.

However, in the end, this event is a distraction for activists and people like me, who are getting deflected from the core cause we are standing for:

The Liberation of East Ukraine from Fascism and the fight against the threat of War against Russia waged by the Forces of the NWO.

Therefore I have decided to acknowledge the Crash of MH17 as a tragic sad event and a senseless loss of precious lives – and leave it there.

I will not engage in the Subject MH17 anymore, unless and until someone steps in front of a camera and confesses something or presents something, along with some solid evidence.

Until then: «Whatever happens, happens.»

Thank you.
@marcelsardo

[Agape]

Posted by Roisin (here)

I posted a news article in this thread entitled 'What would it take to shoot down a commercial airliner?' or something like that. The info in that article makes it very, very clear that when the Buk missile launcher locks in on its target to shoot it down, it automatically ID's the type of plane it is via the plane's transponder. Commercial airliners have their own unique type of transponder and that expert said that whomever shot down that plane, knew it was a commercial airliner as that aircraft identifier is a built in feature in that technology. And let's face it, anyone who can target an airliner flying at normal speed that's waaaaay up there from the ground using that advanced anti-aircraft technology, can also read whatever information that is popping up on his screen right in front of his eyes as that info pops up automatically. So from this we can surmise that this passenger plane was shot down intentionally and that there was no question as to what type of aircraft it was.

This is important information and it's your choice to ignore it or consider it as true and correct information about that technology regardless that the source is mainstream.

Anyway, the thought crossed my mind that whomever shot that plane down was either an expertly trained operator of that technology on the Ukraine side using their Buk or, if the rumor is true that the 'rebels' had their own Buk, one of the Russian advisers/trainers who was operating that system at that time could have been a double agent working for either the Ukrainians or some other entity. They probably paid him off to shoot down a jumbo 777 so that the rebels/Putin/Russia would be blamed for that action hence turning the world against them and so on....

What's interesting also is that in the news yesterday, it stated that Ukraine arrested a Buk systems expert at the border somewhere. It sounded like that person was Russian and was trying to escape..... but from what? Will see if I can find that article because I didn't read it but will later.

It's what the Russian girl-dressed-like-rebel explained to us, in the yesterdays video .

They allegedly shot the plane down because they thought it maybe Ukrainian honey-trap and bomber is hiding in its trail , that's what she said .
It was posted here , two pages ago or so ..
She said that Ukrainians were bombarding their city ( Sloviansk ) and other 'rebel cities' in the area and that they hid bomb plane behind commercial craft .
Tens of people have died and they're without water and electricity, whole area . So that was their reason, given why they shot at the MA17 .


For the second part ..as 'who operated the missiles' , consider this .. till the fall of former USSR they had compulsory army duty for every man for 2 or 3 years .
It's merely 25 years or so which means , by simple calculation that people who were trained to operate these missiles and were 20 or 30 years olds that time are in their 40s and 50s and they're still 'fight capable' .
Even if one in hundred 'knows how to operate it' they'll make use of him and he will . And he is not identified anywhere as an 'expert' , does not have to be,
they trained soldiers to operate everything .

It's an Ukrainian story in that and covering their own backs because they seem less than able to handle the whole situation in Ukraine ,
and it's not too surprising with Russia with their nationalism above their head and the NATO alliance option from the other side .

[Jayren]

A good message by "Dwire"

Hi all, once again the news airwaves are awash with a fresh disaster provoking all kinds of thoughts, emotions & speculations about who, when why what. No doubt, in rooms across the world, conversations are dominated by a new drama with the promise of a whole host of new theories & opinions to cloud the collective psyche of the human family about what happened & why.

I don't know about you, but I'm personally feeling that I'm done with the drama. A new realisation has set in that is drawing me away from the chaos, turning away from the TV & stepping into a brighter & more peaceful condition - one which I feel is the dawn of a personal paradise within.

Since absorbing a host of Abraham Hicks & David Childerley presentations, the cosmic nail is finally beginning to set in & it boils down to a few basic principles.

1) The Universe is essentially vibration.

2) There is a law of attraction which indicates that vibrations attract similar vibrations.

3) 'Human feeling' is our access point or mechanism to making the universe vibrate.

4) If everything in the universe is vibration, then... all of the preferred things, circumstances, situations, relationships, events, outcomes scenarios, people & places that we could ever desire to have in our life experience are also vibration & exist within the vibrational frequency of happiness & joy.

4) So.. all that is required to do, to have these desired & preferred experiences in our lives is to achieve a vibration (feeling) of happiness & joy. The longer the period of time we can be 'in' the vibration of happiness & joy, the more shifting & attraction occurs between us & our joyous desires. We effectivly become a JOY MAGNET.

It has been described as 'the path of least resistance' to everything you could ever wish for - & if we become consistant at it, 'the path of NO resistance' & it's becoming clear why.

Now that I have begun practicing this technique, to everything that is presented to me in daily life, I have found myself asking - "Is this of happiness & joy?". If the answer is "No" then I discard it, making the mental note that this thing (thought, feeling, choice, object, situation or whatever it is) is not part of my life story.

My story is happiness & joy.

In this way, I now discard all that does not vibrate of happiness & joy to me, creating a clearer field of vibration around my being - a vibration more focused on happiness & joy. The trick (i feel right now) is to treat this technique as a new lifestyle.. one which requires regular practice with the aim to become an Olympic level Joy vibration creator.

As we practice this there is no reason that I can see, as a fundamental universal principle why we shouldn't attract all of the things we could ever wish for. In this manner.. personal security, satisfaction, eternal youth, optimum health & vitality & global peace are all achievable.. as they are all things that resonate of happiness & joy. They exist as experiences within that spectrum of vibration.

SO... Does the story of the MH17 disaster represent happiness & joy?

No.

Is it my story? No, my story is Happiness & Joy.

It is my feeling that the alleged 'powers that were' want the mass psyche of the human family to be submerged in vibrations of this nature & they are not foolish, though perhaps a little desperate. It is my belief that at some level within the heirarchy of alleged political authority, the true vibrational nature of the universe & the law of attraction is understood.

All that is needed to keep an entire race of individuals trapped within the distortions of lower vibration, in effect - a self induced vibrational prison, is to bombard a constant flow of stories & events such as this into the eyeballs, minds & hearts of as many people as possible.

The negative feeling of fear & resentment that results within the receiver is enough to create a vortex pumped full of similar vibration, which in turn attracts more of the same.

The way out (in my opinion) is to turn the diatribe of negatvity off & begin to vibrate feelings of happiness & joy. Why would we want anything else in our lives? When we do this, we become a vibration mis-match to negative vibration & therefore repellant to anything that might cause the human vortex to manifest situations of that unpleasing vibration.

That's my take at this point of NOW. If you feel you are drawn to emerse yourself in the energy of the 24hr news (vibrational prison) machine & spend your time examining & breaking these news stories down.. (i have been guilty of this previously) then my advice at this point is - go fun yourself!

A personal paradise is begging for our attention.. you coming?

[SilentFeathers]

Interesting to read: Note, his daughter is a huge AIDS activists.....

Mahathir Mohamad- He established the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission and is its Chairman. He was also the longest sitting Prime Minister of Malaysia and also quite critical of the west.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahathir_Mohamad

Sometimes weird clues are found in weird places......

[jackovesk]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
#MH17: Why I Leave It There

In the Opinion of the Editor July 18, 2014

July 18, 2014, by Marcel Sardo (@marcelsardo)

“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers.”
— Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow

As tragic as the downing of the Malaysian Airliner MH17 is, I have decided to remove myself from the ongoing debate and the search for What Really Happened.

Most of you will agree with me that the whole Story stinks. And most of you will agree, that since the doomed Airliner crashed onto the plains of Eastern Ukraine, all the finger pointing – from the very first moments – was directed at Russia, even though the only ones benefitting from this tragedy are Kiev, and supporters of the criminal and illegitimate Junta, who are waging war against their own people.

There is too much information now about that Airliner, too much counter information, misinformation, half information and information that contradicts all the information just mentioned.

In other Words:

We are getting distracted from the real issue here: The Freedom Fight of the People in Novorossiya and the fact that a War Against Russia is being laid on Track.

If you think I am exaggerating, then you’re not paying attention – and for sure did not follow today’s UNSC Meeting on this issue.

The narrative is now out and spinning and whoever is familiar with the Western MSM knows that there is no turning back now. The Beast wants to be fed.

We do not have the means to determine who shot that Airplane down and why. It could have been the NAF Forces, whether deliberately or not. It could have been the Kiev Junta, whether deliberately or not.

It was for sure not Russia, because Russia would have gained absolutely nothing from such an act – but this seems to be a logic too complicated to grasp for those who call themselves our “Leaders”.

So there remains two possibilities: The Kiev Junta shot down MH17 to blame it on Russia; or the NAF shot down MH17 by mistaking it for a Military Plane.

Or – and nobody talks about this option – it was a tragic “ordinary“ Air Accident that just happened to occur over a strange place at a strange time – bad luck, bad timing.

Hopefully, time will tell the truth one day, although I would not bet any money on that.

However, in the end, this event is a distraction for activists and people like me, who are getting deflected from the core cause we are standing for:

The Liberation of East Ukraine from Fascism and the fight against the threat of War against Russia waged by the Forces of the NWO.

Therefore I have decided to acknowledge the Crash of MH17 as a tragic sad event and a senseless loss of precious lives – and leave it there.

I will not engage in the Subject MH17 anymore, unless and until someone steps in front of a camera and confesses something or presents something, along with some solid evidence.

Until then: «Whatever happens, happens.»

Thank you.
@marcelsardo

Plenty of food for thought there Amzer Zo...

However you forgot one important part of the equation...

Humanities ability to Fight back without even having to raise an arm in battle...

Ya see, if we don't start to speak up for ourselves against the CABAL-BRAINWASHING we are literally going to be FED it COLD on a daily basis...

Every Single Time you post something here, there is a magnificent natural force of energy, a force so Powerful it is literally UNSTOPPABLE..!

Words Matter - The Truth Matters & I'll be 'effed' if I'm going to dictated to by these weak PHONY little cowards..!

The Truth & the ongoing (Messy-Debate) that entwines thereafter into a (He said/She said) 'FRENZY' is generally the only way to the the real TRUTH rises to the surface...

[Hervé]

... 'don't know about youz folks, but I find this quite damning, if only because it's not widely echoed via MSM:

FINAL – Spanish Air Controller @ Kiev Borispol Airport: Ukraine Military Shot Down Boeing #MH17

Eyewitness Accounts July 18, 2014

FLASH UPDATE: Industry Outlet Confirms Carlos (@spainbuca) as ATC at Borispol in Kiev

(See the Text of Carlos / @spainbuca Tweets Below the Article)

Original: EturboNews (ETN Global Travel Industry News) – July 17, 2014

ETN received information from an air traffic controller in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.

This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew on board.

The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.

Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.

Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.

Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian Boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the Eastern Ukraine conflict region.

Some tweets received suggest this may have been a secret military uprising against the current Ukrainian president under the direction of formerly-jailed Prime Minister Timoshenko.

According to other rumors, the black box for this crashed Malaysian Airlines flight was taken by Donetsk separatists. A spokesperson for the rebel group said this black box would be sent to the Interstate Aviation Committee headquartered in Moscow.

The First Deputy Prime Minister of the self-proclaimed People’s Republic of Donetsk, Andrew Purgin, stated that the flight recorders of the crashed aircraft will be transferred to Moscow for examination.

Sources say the Rebel group leadership hopes this would confirm the Ukrainian military actually shot down this aircraft. This was reported by the news agency Interfax-Ukraine.

ETN statement: The information in this article is independently confirmed and based on the statement of one airline controller and other tweets received.

Translated from Spanish by Luis Lopez

Source: Tweets by Spanish Air Controller - @spainbuca

@R_of_R @gbazov @spainbuca copy of tweets here http://t.co/50vUYVWKmy … https://t.co/mCGXsXWKcM http://t.co/HWT4PGV86Z …
— johnny peterson (@JPexsquaddie) July 18, 2014

CHRONOLOGY OF @spainbuca’s TWITTER FEED

10:21 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Autoridades de kiev, intentan hacer que pueda parecer un ataque de los pro-rusos

“Kiev Authorities, trying to make looks like an attack by pro-Russian”

10:24 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Ojo! Que puede ser un derribo B777 Malaysia Airlines en ukraine, 280 pasajeros

“warning! It can be a downing, Malaysia Airlines B777 in ukraine, 280 passengers”

10:25 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Cuidado! Kiev tiene lo que buscaba

“Warning! Kiev have what they wanted”

10:25 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Vuelven a tomar la torre de control en Kiev

“[Miitary] has taken control of ATC in Kiev”

10:27 – 17 de jul. de 2014 El avión B777 de Malaysia Airlines desapareció del radar, no hubo comunicación de ninguna anomalia, confirmado

“The Malaysia Airlines B777 plane disappeared from the radar, there was no communication of any anomaly, confirmed”

10:30 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Avión derribado, derribados, derribado no accidente

“Plane shot down, shot down, shot down, no accident”

10:31 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Kiev, tiene lo que buscaba, lo dije en los primeros tw, kiev es responsable @ActualidadRT

“Kiev have what they wanted, I said in the first tw [Tweets], Kiev is responsible @ ActualidadRT”

10:35 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Un accidente muy normal no es, no están amenazando en la misma torre del aeropuerto de kiev,

“An accident that is not quite normal, they are threatening us in the same tower of Kiev airport”

10:35 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Nos van a quitar, nuestros tlf y demás de un momento a otro

“they will take from our phones and others stuff at any moment”

10:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Antes de que me quiten el tlf o me rompan la cabeza, derribado por Kiev

“Before They remove my phone or they break my head, shot down by Kiev”

11:12 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Nosotros tenemos la confirmación. Avión derribado, la autoridad de kiev, ya tiene la información, derribado, estamos tranquilos ahora

“We have confirmation. Plane downed, Kiev authorities already have the information, downed, we are calm now”

11:13 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Que hace personal extranjero con autoridades de kiev en la torre? Recopilando toda la información

“What are doing foreigners with kiev authorities in the tower? Gathering all the information”

11:15 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Cuando sea posible sigo escribiendo

“When possible I´ll keep writing”

11:48 – 17 de jul. de 2014 El avión B 777 voló escoltado por 2 cazas de ukraine hasta minutos antes, de desaparecer de los radares,

The B777 plane flew escorted by Ukraine jet fighter until 2 minutes before disappearing from the radar,

11:54 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Sí las autoridades de kiev, quieren decir la verdad, esta recogido 2 cazas volaron muy cerca minutos antes , no lo derribo un caza

“If kiev authorities want to tell the truth, It´s gathered, 2 jet fighters flew very close minutes before, wasn’t downed by a fighter”

12:00 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Nada más desaparecer el avión B 777 de Malaysia Airlines la autoridad militar de kiev nos informo del derribo, como lo sabían?

“Malaysia Airlines B777 plane just disappeared and Kiev military authority informed us of the downing, How they knew?”

12:00 – 17 de jul. de 2014 A los 7:00 minutos se notificó el derribo, más tarde se tomó la torre nuestra con personal extranjero q siguen aquí

“7:00 minutes after [plane dissapeared], the downing was notified, later our tower was taken with foreigner staff, they still here ”

12:01 – 17 de jul. de 2014 En los radares esta todo recogido, para los incrédulos, derribado por kiev, aquí lo sabemos y control aéreo militar también

“all this is gathered in radars, to the unbelieving, shot down by kiev, here we know it and military air traffic control also”

13:15 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Aquí los mandos militares manejan y admiten que militares a otras órdenes, pudieron ser, pero no, los pro-rusos

“Here the military commanders manage and support it could be military following other orders , but no, the pro-Russian”

13:29 – 17 de jul. de 2014 El ministro del interior si conocía que, hacían los cazas en la zona, el ministro de defensa no, .

“Interior Minister knew what the fighters were doing in the area, the defense minister didn’t.”

13:31 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Militares confirman que fue ukraine, pero se sigue sin saber de donde vino la orden

“Military confirm It was Ukraine, but still does not know where the order came from”

13:36 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Hace dias lo dije aquí, militares de kiev querían alzarse contra el actual presidente, esto puede ser una forma, a las órdenes de timoshenko

“Days ago I said here, kiev military wanted to rise against the current president, this may be a way, ordered by timoshenko [following timishenko orders]”

13:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Los cazas volaron cerca del 777, hasta 3 minutos antes de desaparecer de los radares, solo 3 minutos

“The fighters flew close to 777, up to 3 minutes before disappearing from the radar, just 3 minutes”

13:43 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Se cierra el espacio aéreo

“Airspace closed”

13:45 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Se cierra el espacio aéreo, por miedo a más derribos

“Airspace is closed, more downings feared”

15:17 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Control militar entrega ahora mismo de forma oficial que el avión fue derribado por misil

“military control now officially [say] the plane was shot down by missile”

15:23 – 17 de jul. de 2014 El informe oficial firmado por las autoridades militares de control de kiev ya lo tiene el gobierno,,,, , derribado

“Government has the official report signed by the control military authorities in Kiev,,,, [plane] shot down”

15:26 – 17 de jul. de 2014 En el informe se indica de donde abría salido el misil, y se especifica que no proviene de las autodefensa en las zonas rebeldes

“The report indicates where the missile had come out [from], and specified is not from the selfdefence in rebel areas”

15:34 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Los radares militares si recogieron los datos del misil lanzado al avión, los radares civiles no

“Military radar collected data from missile fired to the plane, civilian radars didn’t”

15:36 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Los altos mandos militares no ordenaron el lanzamiento del misil, ,,alguien se le fue la mano en nombre de ukraine

“military high command did not gave the order to fire the missile, someone screw it ine the name of ukraine”

15:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Para el que no lo sepa, digamos así, hay militares a las órdenes del ministro de defensa y militares a las órdenes del ministro del interior

“For those who do not know, Let’s say, there are military under the orders of the defense minister and military under the orders of Interior Minister”

15:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Los militares a las órdenes del ministro del interior conocían en cada momento lo que sucedió, .

“The military under the orders of Interior Minister knew what happened all the time .”

16:06 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Mandos militares aquí (ATC) torre de control, confirman que el misil es del ejercito de ukraine,

“Military commanders here (ATC) control tower, confirm that the missile is from the ukranian army,”

16:07 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Mandos militares que si lo sabían y otros mandos que no,

“military commanders that knew it and others didn´t ,”

16:08 – 17 de jul. de 2014 290 personas inocentes muertas, . Por una guerra inútil, donde el patriotismo se compra con dinero

“290 dead innocent people. What a useless war, where patriotism is bought with money”

16:09 – 17 de jul. de 2014 La forma de tomar la torre de control minutos después sabiendo todo los detalles, rápido nos hizo pensar que habían sido ellos

“Thw way the control tower was taken minutes after & knowing all the details, made ​​us think that they [made it]”

16:10 – 17 de jul. de 2014 La cara de los militares que llegaron más tarde diciendo pero que habéis echo, no dejo dudas

“The face of the soldiers who came later saying [what you just did], no chance for doubts”

16:12 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Es tal la decadencia que los militares acompañados de extranjeros que llegaron primero nos llegaron a pedir que dijéramos su versión

“Such is the decline that military who came first accompanied by foreigners came to us asking us to tell their version”

16:13 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Nuestra respuesta, fue, estos radares no recogen el lanzamiento de misiles, los militares si, ya no quedaban dudas

“Our response was, these radars do not collect the launching of missiles, the military ones does, there were no doubts”

[MorningSong]

OMG.. did you guys see that.. the author of that vid is only 15 yo.... bless his awokened soul!

Thanks Jayren! Can anyone tell me how I can get an audio copy of just the speech at the end and who the author is...hmmm?

Edit: Forget I wrote that...I know...

Sorry... and now....Back to topic... sadly....

[jackovesk]

Right then, I'm going straight back into the (((INET_MATRIX))) to unearth some more Truth-Missiles to fire back at the ENEMY...

[Operator]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
...

“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers.”
— Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow

...

Indeed ! It's problem, reaction, solution ...
We're in the middle ... it's our reaction.

We are reacting to media that is manipulated from all sides. If you are going to watch photos
or videos then don't read the corresponding text or listen to the narrative. Turn the volume
down and ask yourself what you are looking at. It will eliminate more than half of all spin
added to it. You will at least come to 'better' conclusions.

If we are asking the question WHO shot it down we already take the preposition that it
WAS shot down and then we're looking in the wrong direction. If mr. Rutte (Dutch prime
minister) pledges not to rest to find the perpetrators who did this he can start in a
place that IS easily accessible to him ... namely Schiphol airport where the plane took
off. Same place where a couple of years ago guys in suits got an underwear bomber
aboard without passport.

There was a parliamentary inquiry after the Bijlmerramp in 1992. Sorry that text is only
available in the Dutch version of the article, use Google Translate to get it in English.
I didn't need a 'parliamentary inquiry' because I could draw my own conclusions a couple
of years before that. And, so it seems, we either didn't learn from it or we chose to
ignore the findings.

[Tesseract]

I am suspicious of this whole Spanish air traffic controller thing - seems even more bogus than Kiev's youtube videos. Need to be discerning and make our inquiries unbiased.

[Operator]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
... 'don't know about youz folks, but I find this quite damning, if only because it's not widely echoed via MSM:

FINAL – Spanish Air Controller @ Kiev Borispol Airport: Ukraine Military Shot Down Boeing #MH17
...

An air traffic controller that does not speak English ?
We should check Russian MSM first ... it may be widely echoed on that side ...

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by Tesseract (here)
I am suspicious of this whole Spanish air traffic controller thing - seems even more bogus than Kiev's youtube videos. Need to be discerning and make our inquiries unbiased.

Listening to the some of the actual language used helps to some degree:

Sergei Ryabkov, Russia’s deputy foreign minister

“Without waiting to establish the facts of the matter or for at least initial agreements about an investigation, which we have spoken in favour of, the US administration is de facto trying to place all blame for what happened on the irregulars and the Russian side,” he said.

Dmitry Rogozin, a Russian deputy prime minister, echoed the criticism, saying: “The White House even before the investigation of the Boeing catastrophe clearly established who’s guilty. Earlier on the White House established the same way that Saddam had WMD [weapons of mass destruction].”

Mr Ryabkov said Washington’s position was no surprise because it had already “stirred up internal political tension in Ukraine, provoking an anti-constitutional seizure of power, and supported anti-Russian politicians”.

He added: “In its geopolitical frenzy and its attempt to use methods of socio-political engineering everywhere, the United States is acting like a bad surgeon: cut deeper at first, and then stitch up sloppily so that it will hurt for a long time.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ane-crash.html

and by the way, where is the physical proof/evidence that a Russian made missile took down this plane????

[Hervé]

Posted by Operator (here)

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
... 'don't know about youz folks, but I find this quite damning, if only because it's not widely echoed via MSM:

FINAL – Spanish Air Controller @ Kiev Borispol Airport: Ukraine Military Shot Down Boeing #MH17
...

An air traffic controller that does not speak English ?
We should check Russian MSM first ... it may be widely echoed on that side ...

However, Carlos may be speaking Russian? But, would not use either one of those languages when calling "home." I thinK...

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Before any tells you otherwise this is footage from Ukraine Military Aircraft Shot Down Over Slovyansk a month ago. NOT the Malaysia crash.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=n60vAtZBrsI

[Hervé]

Posted by Tesseract (here)
I am suspicious .... Need to be ... unbiased.

Indeed!

Tweets have a time stamp...

Carlos Twitter account has been deleted/cancelled... all gone now...

So, I too, am suspicious

[Sophocles]

There`s an interview with Carlos (@SPAINBUCA) on spanish RT dated may 8. 2014. I am thinking it could be the same person, or that someone has misused his twitteraccount.

Title (in spanish): Amenazan de muerte a un español en Ucrania por opinar sobre la crisis

Link: http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/...ucrania-crisis

[gripreaper]

Here is the Malaysian Patronas twin towers in Kuala Lumpur.



So, the financial interests at the top of the power pyramid, do not like some of the moves Malaysia is making? Did they wander off the reservation and go off script? Are they attempting to go against the petrodollar and the monied interests of the Federal Reserve, and join an alliance of rogue countries who no longer want to exchange tangibles for worthless fiat and debt?

How is this all tied together in regards to the Bilderberger agreements and how all countries are to remain within the system which is aligned to operate and develop an economy and technology which fulfills a global agenda against an outside extraterrestrial threat? Was this agreement to run 70 years from the mid 1930's to the mid 2000's? How does this tie into 9-11? Who is not living up to their end of the agreement, and who is pissed off and making chess moves?

Whatever this is and why Malaysia is the target, has to do with some infighting at the very top of the power pyramid, in my opinion. Someone went off the reservation and is not following the script. The rest of it is just noise.

[Roisin]

And what about Carlos?
A simple search reveals that MH17 was in fact diverted 200km north from the usual flight path taken by Malaysian Airlines in the previous days – and plunged right in the middle of a war zone. Why? What sort of communication had MH17 received from the Kiev air control tower?

Kiev has been mute about it. Yet the answer would be simple, had Kiev released the Air Traffic Control recording of the tower talking to flight MH17; Malaysia did it after flight MH370 disappeared forever.

It won’t happen; SBU security confiscated it. So much for getting an undoctored explanation as to why MH17 was off its path, and what the pilots saw and said before the explosion.

The Russian Defense Ministry, for its part, has confirmed that a Kiev-controlled Buk anti-aircraft missile battery was operational near the MH17’s crash. Kiev has deployed several batteries of Buk surface-to-air missile systems with at least 27 launchers; these are all perfectly capable of bringing down jets flying at 33,000 ft.

Radiation from a battery’s Kupol radar, deployed as part of a Buk-M1 battery near Styla [a village some 30km south of Donetsk] was detected by the Russian military. According to the ministry, the radar could be providing tracking information to another battery which was at a firing distance from MH17’s flight path.

The tracking radar range on the Buk system is a maximum of 50 miles (80km). MH17 was flying at 500mph. So assuming the ‘rebels’ had an operational Buk and did it, they would have had not more than five minutes to scan all the skies above, all possible altitudes, and then lock on. By then they would have known that a cargo plane could not possibly be flying that high.

For evidence supporting the possibility of a false flag, check here.

And then there’s the curiouser and curiouser story of Carlos, the Spanish air traffic controller working at Kiev’s tower, who was following MH17 in real time. For some Carlos is legit - not a cipher; for others, he’s never even worked in Ukraine. Anyway he tweeted like mad. His account – not accidentally – has been shut down and he has disappeared. His friends are now desperately looking for him. I managed to read all his tweets in Spanish when the account was still online. And now copies and an English translation are available.

These are some of his crucial tweets:

“The B777 was escorted by 2 Ukrainian fighter jets minutes before disappearing from radar (5.48pm)”

“If the Kiev authorities want to admit the truth 2 fighter jets were flying very close a few minutes before the incident but did not shoot down the airliner (5.54)”

“As soon as the Malaysia Airlines B777 disappeared the Kiev military authority informed us of the shooting down. How did they know? (6.00)”

"Everything has been recorded on radar. For those that don’t believe it, it was taken down by Kiev; we know that here (in traffic control) and the military air traffic control know it too (7.14)”

“The Ministry of the Interior did know that there were fighter aircraft in the area, but the Ministry of Defense didn’t. (7.15)”

“The military confirm that it was Ukraine, but it is not known where the order came from. (7.31)”

Carlos’s assessment (a partial compilation of his tweets is collected here: the missile was fired by the Ukraine military under orders of the Ministry of Interior - NOT the Ministry of Defense. Security matters at the Ministry of the Interior happen to be under Andrey Paruby, who was closely working alongside US neo-cons and Banderastan neo-Nazis on Maidan.

Assuming Carlos is legit, the assessment makes sense. The Ukrainian military are divided between Chocolate king [President Petro] Poroshenko – who would like a détente with Russia essentially to advance his shady business interests - and St. Yulia Tymoshenko, who’s on the record advocating genocide of ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine. US neo-cons and US “military advisers” on the ground are proverbially hedging their bets, supporting both the Poroshenko and Tymoshenko factions.

http://rt.com/op-edge/174088-was-it-putin-missile/

[ParakeetMGP]

I believe MH17 is fabricated and a Lie. I saw a picture on this Yahoo News page of the wreckage and showing a broken jet turban. What I saw was a weed that ggreeww through this turban. Like a very old shot. Like this wreckage and broken turban was sitting on the ground for at least 3 months or longer. So? It might be more likely that this is that other missing airliner in March? MH370? or more Fabrications and Lies to deceive the political world I don't get myself into.