Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

[sigma6]

Posted by Roisin (here)

Posted by jackovesk (here)
Hot News Release: NWO Attempted Assassination of Vladimir Putin, But Got the Wrong Plane?
New information reveals that President Valdimir Putin’s plane may have been the target of an attempted assassination! It Looks That Way! (Breaking News Videos)

Thursday, July 17, 2014


He is doing many things right and standing strong for what is moral in this world. Furthermore, he is going against the grain of the New World Order, and we all know they don’t like that!

NWO Attempted Assassination of Vladimir Putin–It Certainly Looks That Way!


RT News reports:

Malaysian Airlines MH17 plane was travelling almost the same route as Russia’s President Vladimir Putin’s jet shortly before the crash that killed 295, Interfax news agency reports citing sources.“I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft – 15:44 Moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity.

“The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical”, the source added. http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/



Is it possible that the Malaysian plane that went down was meant to be his? Did they try to assassinate him? Watch the facts stated in the videos below, because it certainly appears that way!

Check out this breaking video news footage and see for yourself!

RT NEWS LINK: http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/ (Please check out for full details)


President Putin’s plane might have been the target for Ukrainian missile – sources
http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-pl…

Obama on the phone with Putin as a Jetliner is taken down. Was this a planned assassination fail?

BRICS establish $100bn bank and currency pool to cut out Western dominance
http://rt.com/business/173008-brics-b…

Faced With Western Freeze-Out, BRICS Bank Is a Coup for Russia


PS - Nice ((Alibi)) Barry...

Obama on the phone with Putin as a Jetliner is taken down. Was this a planned assassination fail?

Ukraine + BRICS = NWO Banksters

False-Flag WARNING..!!!

PSS - Now watch this story UNFOLD

Media War (West vs Russia)

Watch what Putin says when he will be ((FORCED to EXPOSE)) the False-Flag Event..!

This is NOT going to play out the way the NWO/BANKSTERS expect...

He is doing many things right and standing strong for what is moral in this world. Furthermore, he is going against the grain of the New World Order, and we all know they don’t like that!

Uh huh. What about Putin's Anti-Gay Law and his banning of gays at Sochi's Olympic games? The fact is, Putin is a dictator who marches to his own drum whose own sense of "human rights" is extremely warped when it comes to several important social issues that most of the rest of the civilized world is at least attempting to address and correct.

That was a topic at Freaking News at the time when all of that was going on and here's an image of Putin that I created for that that I entitled "Coming Out".

I don't think kids need to know what grown men and women do or why they are parading down a street, wearing women's clothes. Gay or straight, how do we know this wasn't trying to point up Obama's hidden homosexual relationship with his transgender boyfriend... ??? According to Joan Rivers "they all know" and thanks to Joan Rivers now "WE ALL KNOW" (no joke...) What way to come out of the closet...

[sigma6]

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
Seriously, who in their right mind would fly a plane load of almost 300 people over a war zone where it was common knowledge planes were getting blasted out of the sky?????
Is Malaysian Airlines really this stupid?????

If they built in remote control, they can control what the pilot is seeing on his gauges. I speculated this is what happened with the Korean flight. The pilots were very clear, that they didn't feel the readings were right. It might be harder to notice you are 300 miles off course. But the weirdest part is how the Malaysian President keeps insisting that he didn't see any problem flying over that area. What is up with that???? That sounds like an "insurance/legal statement" i.e. when you start factoring in legal interpretations, it starts forcing everyone to lie essentially based on legal interpretations of fault, since it is all based on commerce, and compensation. Not justice so much.

[sigma6]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Roisin (here)
it would not be surprising if he ends up tampering and erasing any information in those boxes if he finds anything that indicates that his mercenaries/the Separatists were the ones who shot down that plane..

But why would Russian separatists ever have done that??

Framing Russia, to meet a new-Cold-War global agenda, makes a great deal more logical sense. (Either that, or it was a mistake, with some Ukrainian faction having intended to bring down Putin's plane.)

And given the above between Russia, Ukraine and Eastern Ukraine who would be the motivated and also have the means to do it. Assuming no matter who did it, that there would be a MASSIVE MEDIA BLITZKRIEG blaming it on Russia. This is a page right out of the Syrian Poison Gas Episode. Everything about this is being done almost for MEDIA reasons only. The one place the US has complete control. Anyone not factoring this in is being naive to the point of suspect...

[sigma6]

Posted by EYES WIDE OPEN (here)
I am thinking that Isreal MAY be involved with this. We have the double of the missing MALAYSIAN plane stored away 2 months ago (see articles I posted in this thread) and now Israel are attacking Gaza while we all talk about the MALAYSIAN air crash yesterday.

Israeli Crowd Cheers As Missile Hits Gaza Live On CNN

http://www.buzzfeed.com/dorsey/israe...za-live-on-cnn


Back on the crash - why is nobody talking about the tweets from the air traffic contol regarding fighter jets?


http://www.infowars.com/ukraine-air-...ssenger-plane/

Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.

Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.

This is HUGE... and apparently this is verifiable evidence and with additional witnesses. And once it reaches enough mainstream audience. The game is over... This Spanish Air Traffic controller must be in danger for his life. Until this news gets more public...

And I don't think it is obvious it was a series of errors, the same people who have the technology to remote control fly 777s, could intercept their communications, confuse the existing communications and order the shootings from behind the scenes and just fade into the background again.

This thing is orchestrated from top to bottom from Christine Lagardes signal to the media, to remote flying 777s. IMF wants Eastern Ukrainian oil resources, and to put missiles on the Russian border as part of their "peace" initiative. If they have to kill every Eastern Ukrainian to do it, they will do it. Were talking about people who live off of GOLD OIL and DRUGS. People come second. Russia, China Brazil India and South America have nothing to gain by opening a $100,000,000,000 Banking system and then killing their own allies. That is beyond stupid for anyone to suggest that... And from the MEDIA this is definitely a CAMPAIGN of disinfo.

[sigma6]

Posted by EYES WIDE OPEN (here)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=aKKoKmUtQXE

Rebel fighter describing how Kiev regime tried unsuccessfully to lure the rebels into shooting down an airliner by mistake. Remember to switch on English subtitles.
Put subtitles on.

Great Video EYES WIDE OPEN... This is more evidence that the Separatist KNEW and had IDENTIFIED the Passenger Plane. They knew the Ukrainians were flying behind it. There is NO WAY they would have fired on it... THIS IS THE MOST SIGNIFICANT INFO I have heard to date.

PEOPLE. START TALKING ABOUT THE UKRAINIAN FIGHTERS. GATHER ALL THE INFO ON THAT. Where is the Spanish Air Traffic Controller (before they kill him, he is now a target) According to him there is also more evidence and witnesses to prove that. That will blow EVERYTHING IN THE MSM DOWN THE TOILET.

[Daphne]

staged, staged and more staged. that's all I see in these photos. And the military was following the plane immediately before the plane went down according to another video in the main thread about this. I do not believe any mainstream media report about this incident. Why on EARTH would Putin be so stupid to do this immediately after initiating such a future oriented plan of the BRICS bank? Does he want to alienate his allies immediately? Please....

[sigma6]

Posted by Cidersomerset (here)
When I saw this article a couple of days ago I thought
brace yourself.........It could be coincidence.....

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=VexU17zRPZo

Published on 15 Jul 2014


The emerging economies signed a long-anticipated document to create a $100
billion BRICS Development Bank. The institution will counter the influence of
Western lending firms as well as the dollar. DETAILS: http://on.rt.com/afyr6y

You don't suppose this would have anything to do with it do you? Would people try and kill other people over money? Would the US really be concerned about another organization cutting them out of billions of dollars of interest/taxes by not doing business in US dollars? Could that be why the US is desperately trying to control the world's economy by forcing sanctions on Russia? Would they willing infiltrate the Neo Nazi Ukrainian Government they already admit pumping 5 billion into. To shoot down a passenger plane with the Promise of a MASSIVE MEDIA BLITZ campaign to blame it on the Russians?

[sigma6]

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
This is a really "strange" story....

Rebel leader gives bizarre account of plane crash
A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a bizarre version of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash — suggesting many of the victims may have died days before the plane took off.
The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna on Friday quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that "a significant number of the bodies weren't fresh," adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.
Girkin said "Ukrainian authorities are capable of any baseness."
He claimed that a large amount of blood serum and medications were found in the wreckage.

I was reading that too. That is JUST TOO WEIRD TO BE MADE UP...
Whao! I just had a thought, this is totally my own speculation... But given my clear belief this is the US/Israeil/Vatican/Banking Cartel (whatever you want to call them we all know the deal...) backing the Neo Nazi Ukrainian Government. Assuming this was all planned, and if Israel was involved with this. And there was a plane switch and a planned remote control crash landing or shoot down.

And if this story is true about the bodies, it WOULD explain a lot of things, the planners WOULD KNOW the Eastern Ukrainians would be first on site. They would know they would "contaminate" the site.

What IF... they spiked all the bodies with a deadly disease? I just thought of this out of my wildest speculations, and I don't know if there is any proof to back this up. But if they did and it spreads a contagion amongst the East Ukrainians, just enough to kill some off before they get it under control. WE KNOW THIS IS A DIRTY WAR. WHOEVER IS BEHIND IT. And these tactics are not above them... Wouldn't this be right down the US/CIA/Israeli black op alley?

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by Tesseract (here)
On difficulty in using the system:

US representative to the UN, Samantha Power, told an emergency session of the Security Council the Malaysia Airlines jet was likely shot down by a SA-11 Buk missile.
"Because of the technical complexity of the SA-11, it is unlikely that the separatists could effectively operate the system without assistance from knowledgeable personnel," she said.
"Thus we cannot rule out technical assistance from Russian personnel in operating the systems.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-1...border/5608744

Or the US or Israelis

[Zamolxe]

Did I say that Putin shot down the plane?

We were discussing the video from DHABOO7 and what he's implying. The quality of his reporting.
Are you saying that the images are all fake and the plane did not break up in multiple pieces? And that it all burned up? You seem really convinced so please tell me what are you basing these assumptions on?

The same images have been shown by the russian reporters from the russian state news agency that were on scene... so I'm not making this up, I can't understand why you insist in contradicting facts.

So you're telling me that the live feed from the crash site on Putin's news channel was fake and the parts of the wreckage behind the reporters was CGI paid by Putin to incriminate him? This is getting silly.

How do you know that the entire plane crashed in one place (100-200 m radius) and it all burned up? Because that's what you keep on afirming.

This is not the usual crash site, 30-50 meters long, everything burning up. Debree was scattered around an area with a 15 km radius.

Not even russian biased news isn't reporting this because it's absolute nonsense but I should listen to DHABOOBOO7 because... why?

I repeat, we're not discussing who shot the plane down or if Ukrainian military jets were tailing the airliner, just the fact that this whole video is utter sensationalst BS just to score some more views for his channel. I was actually shocked that this much nonsense can fly with 92000 subscribers.

Also on RT:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=_nhQL7JMhkc

EDIT: you seem to be confused so I think I should actually explain what RT is...

"RT, previously known as Russia Today, is an international multilingual Russian-based television network which presents round-the-clock news bulletins, documentaries, talk shows, and debates, as well as sports news and cultural programs on Russia aimed at the overseas news market."

It has also replaced Ria Novosti at the end of last year:
http://rt.com/news/ria-novosti-overhaul-putin-960/

It is in no way related to "MSM" and it has been clearly one sided regarding this crash, so the images in the video aren't in any possible way intended to incriminate Putin.
Just to be clear

[sigma6]

Posted by Cidersomerset (here)
Update from Davids site...

Spanish Air Controller @ Kiev Borispol Airport: Ukraine Military Shot Down Malaysian Boeing
new Friday 18th July 2014 at 18:08 By david-icke


FLASH UPDATE: Industry Outlet Confirms Carlos (@spainbuca) as ATC at Borispol in Kiev

‘There was an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian MH17 flight which took the aircraft
directly over the Eastern Ukraine warzone.

The Spanish air controller confirms a conflict between the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of
the Interior intimating that the order concerning the downing of the aircraft came from the Ministry
of the Interior, which is dominated by Svoboda and Right Sector.

He also said that the MH17 flight was escorted by Ukrainian fighter jets minutes before it was downed.
It is worth noting that the presence of the Ukraine fighter jets reported by the Spanish air traffic
controller was confirmed by eyewitness reports in the Donetsk region:

“eyewitnesses in the Donetsk region saw Ukrainian warplanes near the passenger jet. They say they
heard sounds of powerful blasts and saw a Ukraine warplane shortly before the crash. (ITAR Tass)’

Read more: Spanish Air Controller @ Kiev Borispol Airport: Ukraine Military Shot Down Boeing
http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/201...n-boeing-mh17/

==========================================================


Ukraine air traffic controller suggests Kiev military shot down passenger plane



‘This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was
taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a
Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295
passengers and crew on board.

The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources
in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were
immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.’

Read more …

http://www.eturbonews.com/48079/ukra...ary-shot-down-
==========================================================


Malaysia Airlines says requested higher flight plan
‘Malaysia Airlines filed a flight plan requesting to fly at 35,000 feet throughout
Ukraine airspace but was instructed by Ukraine air traffic control to fly at 33,000
feet upon entry, it said in a statement late on Friday.

“MH17 filed a flight plan requesting to fly at 35,000 feet throughout Ukrainian
airspace. This is close to the ‘optimum’ altitude,” the airline said.’
"However, an aircraft's altitude in flight is determined by air traffic control on the
ground. Upon entering Ukrainian airspace, MH17 was instructed by Ukrainian air traffic control to fly at 33,000 feet."
Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was downed in
Ukraine on Thursday.

(Reporting by Al-Zaquan Amer Hamzah; Editing by Robert Birsel)

Read more …
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0FN1HR20140718

There is no way out for Neo Nazis on this information. What are they doing confiscating RADAR data? kicking out foreigner Air Traffic Controllers. It sounded like one faction had the inside news to do it, the other not having the inside news (i.e. that the US already had a propaganda campaign in place) was against it, and rightly so... So we may be able to elucidate which faction is the contact point for CIA operatives.

[sigma6]

Posted by Cidersomerset (here)
continued....

Was Ukraine’s Ministry of Interior behind the Downing of Malaysian Airlines MH17?


‘A division of Buk missile systems of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was, according to Pravda deployed
to the Donetsk Oblast on July 15, two days before the downing of the Malaysian airlines MH17 flight.
The Buk missile system has the capabilities of downing an aircraft flying at 35,000 feet.
While the Pravda report remains to be confirmed, Russian Defense sources confirms the presence of
several missile batteries in the Donesk oblast operated by the Ukraine armed forces …
… Of significance, the Prosecutor General of Ukraine Vitaliy Yarema confirmed that the Donesk rebels
do not have Buk or S 300 ground to air missiles which could have downed the plane.’
Read more …

http://www.globalresearch.ca/was-ukr...s-mh17/5391909
========================================================
Ukrainian Army with Surface to Air missiles near Donetsk on July 5th (see 0:50)
‘Here is a video from a few days ago showing UKR Army in the region in possession of SAM BUK.
They have been going crazy suggesting that Russian planes have crossed the border in the recent
days and were working hard to shoot it down – a fact. ‘

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=U2eGNPJlkMo

John McCain Says Ukraine Does Not Have Buk Missile Systems (See above post) and Unveils True
Motive For Shooting MH-17 To Escalate War With Russia

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=-V53xoum3AM

Are they wagging the dog?

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=0XOnCckiYlk

‘If this was a mid-air missile strike, quick question: where is the smoke? Any
smoke? From the missile? From the strike? From the plane? Left in the air?
Anything…?

Also, what is this guy doing walking around the fresh crash site with a handful of
intact, unscathed passports that look brand spanking new? That video was only
played on loop for B roll on all major news networks repeatedly all day…

Or here’s a conspiracy theory for you: What if the missing Malaysian plane from
march (MH370) somehow is the one that was “shot down” over Ukraine today in
some Jerry Bruckheimeresque 24-hour news cycle stage show to dazzle the masses
into believing the official story?’

Read more …
http://truthstreammedia.com/are-they-wagging-the-dog/
http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/

Ewww McCain, what a lying piece of ****! playing "normal conversation" with Sassoon's homosexual son. mmmm... why I don't watch television.

[Hervé]

Posted by sigma6 (here)
[...]

.... Where is the Spanish Air Traffic Controller (before they kill him, he is now a target) According to him there is also more evidence and witnesses to prove that. That will blow EVERYTHING IN THE MSM DOWN THE TOILET.

They are already busy discrediting him as a non-existent entity...

However, what remains are the confiscated Kiev air-control radar and communication data... apparently one faction of the "Ukrainian official" military got their hands on them and not releasing them for international investigation... one wonders why... since it would reveal why MH-0017 got to be rerouted in a corridor 300 miles north of its approved flight plan.

[Roisin]

Malaysian Airlines MH370 and MH17. A Criminologist Questions: What are the Probabilities? Is it a Mere Coincidence?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/malaysi...idence/5392265


Four months after the vanishing of Malaysia Airlines flight 370, Malaysian Airlines flight 17 was brought down by a surface-to-air missile.

Western Mainstream Media (MSM) hastened–on the basis of very thin evidence joined with the refusal to even mention other evidence–to attribute blame to the “appropriate” party, which in the case of flight 17 happens to be Vladimir Putin.

Careful observers of the mainstream media processes are well aware that this sort of thing is what we are to expect, and undoubtedly helps explain the very low level of trust people place in MSM institutions.

Here, of course with the leave of figures such as Anderson Cooper and Barack Obama, we are going to do some of our own thinking about, and analysis of, certain key pieces of evidence. In so doing, we should not be surprised if we arrive at conclusions different from that which our Ruling Class masters would have us believe.

First, let’s present the currently prevailing theory as to what happened. K.T. McFarland, national security analyst at Fox, presents “three possible scenarios” pertaining to the attribution of responsibility.

Of the three “possible” scenarios McFarland presents (and one wonders exactly what scenarios are supposed to be impossible), McFarland (and many others) appears to favor the prospect that pro-Russian rebel separatists are responsible. The theory is that motive and opportunity coincide in that group better than they do with respect to other potential malfeasants.

Maybe the separatists are responsible. But the case is hardly closed, and plenty of evidence that people such as McFarland choose to ignore should be considered as objectively as possible.

First, similar to Malaysia Airlines flight 370, there is evidence that contact with Malaysia Airlines flight 17 was lost in advance of the wayward event. Next, and once more like flight 370, we have evidence that the pilot of Flight 17 actually diverted–purportedly on the basis of a vague sense of being “uncomfortable”–the craft into the dangerous warzone region where it was shot down.

Next, reflect that, on the same day, 55 planes flew over Donetsk just as flight 17 did and that these flight patterns have been in place for some time.

The Normal MH17 Flight Path vs. the Warzone flight path over Donesk Oblast on July 17th



And here is evidence reported by Zero Hedge that may be very important:

“While there are various questions that have already emerged from what was supposed to be Ukraine’s “slam dunk” proof confirming Russian rebel involvement in today’s MH-17 tragedy, perhaps one just as gaping question emerges when one looks at what is clearly an outlier flight path in today’s final, and tragic, departure of the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777.

Perhaps the best visualization of what the issue is, comes from Vagelis Karmiros who has collated all the recent MH-17 flight paths as tracked by Flightaware and shows that while all ten most recent paths pass safely well south of the Donetsk region, and cross the zone above the Sea of Azov, it was only today’s tragic flight that passed straight overhead Donetsk.”




The Karmiros evidence could of course be wrong, but can we prove that it is wrong now, and can we be 100% confident that what the MSM tells us is true?

And, if it’s wrong, why hasn’t the Karmiros evidence been refuted? The answer to that is that it’s probably because it hasn’t received any discussion. Why not?

Next, here are a few other curious tidbits. The flight 17 crash shares an anniversary with the demise of TWA 800, which AT’s own Jack Cashill has compellingly argued was, in fact, brought down by a missile on July 17, 1996 and subsequently covered up by the US government. And, the maiden flight of flight 17 occurred in 1997 on the date of, you guessed it, July 17.

So “17s” are everywhere. To be sure, though, each of the items in the last paragraph is easily ranged under the heading “coincidence.”

But before we do that, there is one more piece of evidence to consider. Upon having done so, we will synthesize all of the evidence by thinking in terms of probabilities.

There is evidence at YouTube that seems to indicate that CNN recently used footage of a helicopter downing in Syria and represented it as depicting the downing of a helicopter, by pro-Russian forces, in the Ukraine (go to 2:39 for a photo comparison).

Now to the probabilistic summary.

Reasoning with probabilities is notoriously tricky, so we have to proceed carefully. Fortunately, a simple coin flip analogy can be employed. If you flip a fair 50/50 coin twice, four possible sequences can occur, and each has an equal likelihood of occurring {HH, HT, TH, TT}. The equal likelihood of the possible sequences flows from the standard supposition that the coin flips are independent of one another, which is simply to say that an H on flip 1 says nothing about whether flip 2 will produce an H or a T.

The analogy with MH 17 is as follows. If five months ago (before the vanishing of MH 370) you had contemplated the likelihood that the next two major airline disasters to receive massive global coverage would each involve Malaysia Airlines, you would have been justified in concluding that the likelihood was very low indeed. By analogy, it would be like specifying only an {H, H} sequence as the outcome ahead of time (a {T, T} sequence would represent the same airline as having been involved, but not Malaysia Airlines).

Now what the Western mainstream media are implicitly arguing is that MH 370 and MH 17 have no real link and are only connected with massive airline disasters in recent months by chance; they’re saying that it could just as well have been any two flights so linked (by analogy, {H, H} or {H, T} or {T, H} or {T, T}). If this argument is valid, nothing at all should be made at all of the fact that Malaysia Airlines was involved in both instances, since all possible sequences are accounted for and no sequence is much more likely than any other.

And yet, the evidence presented in this article suggests that MH 370 and MH 17 are linked in ways that might not be due to chance. Both MH 370 and MH 17 appear to have lost communicative contact, and both appear to have veered off course on very unusual routes. How many aircraft of other airlines have done so in recent months, never mind how many of the 55 aircraft over Donetsk did so on July 17? How many aircraft other than MH 17 had their inaugural voyage on the date of July 17?

These considerations suggest that, in fact, in the cases of MH 370 and MH 17 we might not be dealing with a “fair coin.”

In turn, the following very reasonable question presents itself: was Malaysia Airlines in particular targeted on July 17, and, if so, what ragtag rebel would have even been in a position to do that (especially given the route alteration, if true), and, if so, how did they accomplish it?

One suspects that the MSM will completely ignore these considerations and will likely coalesce, for several reasons, around an account that blames the episode on an accidental discharge that Putin can nonetheless be blamed for given the hostilities in the region.

However that may be, one thing is almost certainly true: the likelihood that Western MSM would in any way, shape, or form discuss evidence implicating U.S. aligned interests in the demise of MH 17 is virtually nil, no matter how compelling such evidence might be.

Dr. Jason Kissner is Associate Professor of Criminology at California State University. Dr. Kissner’s research on gangs and self-control has appeared in academic journals. His current empirical research interests include active shootings. You can reach him at crimprof2010@hotmail.com.

[Tesseract]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)

Posted by sigma6 (here)
[...]

.... Where is the Spanish Air Traffic Controller (before they kill him, he is now a target) According to him there is also more evidence and witnesses to prove that. That will blow EVERYTHING IN THE MSM DOWN THE TOILET.

They are already busy discrediting him as a non-existent entity...

However, what remains are the confiscated Kiev air-control radar and communication data... apparently one faction of the "Ukrainian official" military got their hands on them and not releasing them for international investigation... one wonders why... since it would reveal why MH-0017 got to be rerouted in a corridor 300 miles north of its approved flight plan.

The claim was that he was deported from Ukraine. Hard to believe they would do that if he had the information that is claimed.

[Observer1964]

Posted by sigma6 (here)

You don't suppose this would have anything to do with it do you? Would people try and kill other people over money? Would the US really be concerned about another organization cutting them out of billions of dollars of interest/taxes by not doing business in US dollars? Could that be why the US is desperately trying to control the world's economy by forcing sanctions on Russia? Would they willing infiltrate the Neo Nazi Ukrainian Government they already admit pumping 5 billion into. To shoot down a passenger plane with the Promise of a MASSIVE MEDIA BLITZ campaign to blame it on the Russians?

Offfcoouuurrrssse not, what a silly idea...

[sigma6]

Posted by amzer zo (here)

...

"shot down by missile!"

well... Since it's been trumpeted all around on all sorts of media, the appropriate response should be to spike one's coffee or tea with a double dose of discernment... Since, as a matter of fact, such a claim is not backed up by any evidence but hearsay.

What is not trumpeted around are the jet fighters seen from ground and on the control tower radar screens... With all control tower personnel removed and replaced while their tweets were deleted.

Then there are these contradicting facts: Pilot found harnessed to his seat at the crash site but malaysian airlines reports no distress calls received...

Then there is that report about those bloodless bodies... I must say that, that was my very reaction when seeing those bodies on the live russian live stream: No blood and the bodies looked like inflatable dolls with "porcelain" skin. That is, something's not right at that site.

So here is a comment which compiles some of those pegs that don't fit anywhere:

reader comment

by: saj

someone deliberately rerouted this plane [link] "a source in russia's federal air traffic agency rosaviatsia has said that three days ago ukraine’s national security and defense council closed the airspace over eastern ukraine because of the so-called “anti-terrorist operation” that kiev conducts in the region." [link]

2 ukrainian fighters seen following malaysian jet minutes before crash [link] "two ukrainian fighters were following the passenger boeing-777 of malaysian airlines several minutes before the crash, russia’s television channel one said on friday, citing a tweet made a spanish air traffic controller of kiev’s airport borispol.

According to the spanish air traffic controller, two ukrainian fighters had been seen near the malaysian jet three minutes before it disappeared from radars.

This information is confirmed by eyewitnesses in the donetsk region who saw ukrainian warplanes near the passenger jet. They say they heard sounds of powerful blasts and saw a ukraine warplane shortly before the crash."

crashed boeing dispatcher: Two ukrainian military jets near jet before it crashed [link]

ukraine air traffic controller suggests kiev military shot down passenger plane [link]
"etn received information from an air traffic controller in kiev on malaysia airlines flight mh17....

The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in kiev, that the ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.
Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.

Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.

Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the malaysian boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the eastern ukraine conflict region." [...]

reports that putin flew similar route as mh17, presidential airport says 'hasn't overflown ukraine for long time' [link]

"i can say that putin’s plane and the malaysian boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 moscow time and the malaysian aircraft - 15:44 moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity.

"the contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical", the source added" [...]

russian radars record active operation of ukrainian air defense [link]

ukrainian buk battery radar was operational when malaysian plane downed - moscow [link]

ukraine’s anti-aircraft missile system dispatched to donetsk wednesday [link]

igor gunmen: Part of the boeing people died a few days before the disaster [link]
"according to the people who collected the bodies, most of corpses -" stale "- people have died and several days ago. For complete accuracy of this information can not vouch - of course, you need forensic conclusion.. Not all people on the plane were dead before the fall.

Secondly, the plane was discovered a large quantity of drugs, blood serum and other things, which is not typical for conventional liner. It seems that there was a medical special-load.

Third, no not insisting on anything (yet). Literally just now talked to two people personally collected the bodies immediately after the fall (both - of shakhtersk and arrived at the scene in less than half an hour after the accident). With their words and write. They stressed that many corpses were "entirely bloodless" - as if the blood curled long before the disaster. Also noted the strongest and putrid smell, marked by many locals - this odor in any weather for half an hour could not be formed, and the weather was overcast yesterday, not too hot."

prominent hiv researcher joep lange was among the victims of flight mh17 [link]

crash claims 100 top aids researchers heading to melbourne [link]

overflights over the south-east suspended jul 15 2014 [link]

malaysia strongly condemns israeli aggression in gaza [link]

flashback - are the israelis planning another false flag using the missing boeing 777? [link]

(perfectly timed) strong empirical evidence israel shot down plane [link]

plane shoot down: Approximately 14:15 utc. Israeli assault on gaza: 14:00 utc. See a connection there? And when you consider the fact that it took time to confirm the downing, the two times actually match even more closely. Israel's assault on gaza is viewed badly by the world community, what better way to bury it in the news than a plane shoot down, complete with the threat of a war with russia?

Israel uses schipol airport for drug and gun running and moving their agents in and out of europe as well as false flags. [link]

(laying the groundwork) mh-17: An exercise in foregone conclusions? [link] [link]
"this past week we have been treated to a narrative that has informed us all that the anti-fascist rebels allegedly have the means to take down airplanes at high altitudes. Alone or with the help of their claimed interchangeable partner- russia. This narrative, repeated and reinforced has never been substantiated.... No evidence given by the kiev fascists. Just unsubstantiated claims. Or as i am proposing the creation of a narrative.

That goes something like this.........

Anti fascists or russia, interchangeable, for this narrative.( interchangeable for all propaganda purposes according to kiev, the obama administration, nato and nato media etc.???)

getting back to the narrative being created all this week

*anti fascists fighters /rebels aided by russia have been shooting down planes flying at high altitude.

*therefore these same groups/partners shot down the malaysian plane" [...]

fri, 18 jul 2014 13:25 cdt

bump... Amazing summarization data ... It will be interesting to see how many of these links survive over the coming days and weeks...

[KiwiElf]

MH17 Working Group Established
Saturday, July 19th, 2014
Posted by Gordon Duff

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07...p-established/

So Far, the Winner is ICTS and Schipol Airport, “Crotch Bomber” Redux

… by Gordon Duff and Jim Dean, VT Editors
with a cast of about a dozen

[ Note: Ukrainian Prosecutor-General Vitaly Yarema told Ukrainian Pravda newspaper on Friday, "Militias in the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk people’s republics do not have Ukrainian air defense missile systems Buk and S-300 at their disposal"..."After the passenger airliner was downed, the military reported to the president that terrorists do not have our air defense missile systems Buk and S-300,” the general prosecutor said. “These weapons were not seized.”

"The Russians did it" story has crashed and burned. The media overkill..."killed it", all of them playing off the same talking points notes, no one even bothering to ask the most basic investigative journalist questions like "Show me the evidence you have."

Who do you know, what country, that has a track record of pulling that kind of media and sock puppet politician coordination off whenever they want to, having them all singing like they are in a choir? ]

We have found one engine damaged. It initially looked like an air to air missile hit it. We see signs of fire but there is a question as to whether damage is consistent with a shape charge from an air to air missile. Input from qualified folks welcomed as always.

The BUK is off the table. We have reviewed it extensively and an S300 is capable but not a BUK. It “says” it will do it but experts have ruled otherwise. We have tons of supporting material already.

Additionally, were a ground launched missile used, we would have had sat photos already. If we get them later, it will mean they have been cooked.

From Rense.com, sent in by Jeff Rense:

Human intel on the ground has given us much. We are taking our time and want more. The YouTube is very telling, engine on fire. However, the wreckage indicates bomb thus far. We, however, aren’t interested in guessing ourselves to death. We leave that to the slime media.

We have issues involving one Israeli jet from Azerbaijan. We have issues about ICTS in Schipol. We have issues about air traffic controllers in Kiev. We have issues about SU 27s trailing the plane. We have issues about “foreign” advisors in Kiev with the military who moved on the airport tower.

We are also looking for an AWAC in the area. The bomb or whatever would have needed an AWAC or an F15 with advanced radar to time the crash.

Thus far the Putin assassination story that RT ran seems “off.” We can do nothing with it so we won’t deal with it now.

What can’t be ignored is the manipulated media and the politicians who are making asses of themselves. They are pointing a gun right at Israel. The smell is overwhelming. Next, someone will ask how many Jews were onboard. As the plane was leaving the Netherlands for a medical conference, I would think the number to be substantial, 20 or more. Is this a fair way to look at this? Perhaps that should be discussed as well.

And who would destroy two fully packed airliners of a country they were angry with, to make an example? Is this enough to go on? In reality, it is more powerful, following a cover up, than any other evidence. Everything else can be faked. The “stupidity” is for real. Yes, they are that stupid.

The dead want vengeance - and we aim to please


Short URL: http://www.veteranstoday.com/?p=311873

[sigma6]

oops, duplicate... browser was malfunctioning

[Roisin]

The following info is from http://www.globalresearch.ca/flight-...-event/5392222

During the wave of MH370 reports in March, I outlined the many systems in place used to track the whereabouts of a Boeing 777 at all times, making the false reports by satellites very questionable:

“Rolls Royce and Malaysian Airlines are said to have a partnership that requires the engine to transmit live data to its global engine health monitoring center in Derby, UK every 30 minutes. Investigators are said to have used the ACARS information uploaded to the engine maker.”

Additionally, we learned about the controversial on board device known as the Boeing Uninterruptible Autopilot that has supposedly been equipped in all Boeing planes since 1995, according to Field McConnell, a retired 35 year Delta pilot,

“This information was apparently not released until March of 2007, following a subsequent lawsuit by McConnell. The modification was reported to the FAA, NTSB and ALPA ( airline pilots association). According to McConnell’s documents, Boeing is said to have stated that by end of 2009 all Boeing planes would be fitted with the BUAP - making them impossible to manually hijack within the plane but susceptible to remote control by the military, according the flight veteran.”

So what could account for the lapse in radar systems just before MH17 crashed?

"According to a YouTube report by POTRBLOG, there was evidence that military aircraft had been deployed in the area, which would reveal what could have provided the radar coverage, corroborating other accounts by Spanish air traffic control, that fighter jets were nearby the passenger plane before it was downed.

There are other pressing questions that need to be answered, as it has been confirmed that Ukrainian air controllers requested that MH17 lower its altitude, add to the fact that a passenger jet was apparently flying through a war-zone.

The report details a substance used by military planes to obscure an aircraft from radar and radar guided missiles called ‘Chaff’…"

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=PUltrf8n_vA

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by sigma6 (here)

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
Seriously, who in their right mind would fly a plane load of almost 300 people over a war zone where it was common knowledge planes were getting blasted out of the sky?????
Is Malaysian Airlines really this stupid?????

If they built in remote control, they can control what the pilot is seeing on his gauges. I speculated this is what happened with the Korean flight. The pilots were very clear, that they didn't feel the readings were right. It might be harder to notice you are 300 miles off course. But the weirdest part is how the Malaysian President keeps insisting that he didn't see any problem flying over that area. What is up with that???? That is what I can an "insurance legal statement" i.e. when you start factoring in legal interpretations, it starts forcing everyone to lie essentially based on legal interpretations of fault, since it is all based on commerce, and compensation. Not justice so much.

I was waiting for someone to pick up on this....

It has been reported that the pilot felt "nervous" and changed his flight path, not to avoid a war zone known for shoot downs, but to fly right over the danger zone, makes no sense. It has been reported witnesses seen fighter jets escorting this jet TO THE WAR ZONE/TURKEY SHOOT. It has been reported that an air traffic controller said Ukraine shot the jet down.

Although we have no way of verifying this as truth or not, it has been reported regardless, part of the narrative.....a possibility.

The obvious-the media blitz......to give Putin a black eye and slow his advancement in to eastern Ukraine, to sway public opinion more to the negative about Russia/Putin. To further create the boogey man mentality towards Vlad Putin.

The "in your face" obvious that very few notice as the smoking gun..........Malaysia has lost 2 777's in a span of about 5 months. Out of all the carriers/brands, why Malaysia Air?????????????? How many times have we heard that the truth is always in plain sight?????? Hidden right in front of our eyes?????

Who on the worlds stage is being most affected by this MH17 event? Ukraine? Russia?....or perhaps Malaysia?????? Then toss in the MH370 event.

Isn't Malaysia anti west, anti Israel, anti just about everything the west wants? Who is trying to dig their fangs in to Malaysia? Could it be Goldman Sachs and Citi Group????? (yes, do the research).

While every one is hating on Putin, Malaysia is falling apart politically and economically. Razak (Malaysian Gov) is quickly losing his political influence and Malaysian's economy is being hit hard....not to mention Malaysia is still one of the hold outs towards the Pacific Trade Agreement if my information is correct.

Take the Russian-Ukraine equation out of it and look at the last two huge events in the media blitz, MH370 and MH17, and Malaysia is front and center..............IMO, Malaysia may be an even more important "trophy" than the Ukraine in the economic war we are witnessing. Perhaps the true distraction is the controllers keeping Ukraine and Putin front in center while they blackmail & steal Malaysia?

Sure the Ukraine is a huge development, but sheesh, what is happening to one of the worlds largest economies in one of the fastest growing (very important) strategic locations on this planet?

Also, John Kerry went to Malaysia a few months before MH370 went missing, then Obama went to Malaysia a few months before this current MH17 disaster. Perhaps Malaysia is not playing along and the noose is tightening around their neck?

Also Razak's daughter is a huge AIDS activist, (another personal message towards Razak with AIDS being a focal point of some passengers killed?).

MH370 and MH17 both being Malaysia jets a coincidence? Personally, I think not.....

What we are actually witnessing is an evil and dark quickening towards global control.