Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

[Roisin]

Hmmmmm

LIVE: 'Malaysia Airlines jet veered off flight path to avoid thunderstorms'

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/...ms_948717.html

Malaysia Airlines jet MH17, that was shot down over eastern Ukraine's war zone, deviated from its normal flight path to avoid thunderstorms, a top aviation official from the European Cockpit Association told the Mirror.

"I heard that they were diverting from some showers... I think there were thunderclouds. You would ask air traffic control to divert left or right, and they would give you the permission," Nico Voorbach, president of the European Cockpit Association, was quoted as saying by the Mirror.

"I think there were thunderclouds. You would ask air traffic control to divert left or right, and they would give you the permission."

So the pilot veered off that "safe" corridor to avoid a thunderstorm regardless that he would be jeopardizing the safety of everyone on board by flying into an active war zone?

They must think the public is completely moronic.... to accept that as true.

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by Roisin (here)
Hmmmmm

LIVE: 'Malaysia Airlines jet veered off flight path to avoid thunderstorms'

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/...ms_948717.html

Malaysia Airlines jet MH17, that was shot down over eastern Ukraine's war zone, deviated from its normal flight path to avoid thunderstorms, a top aviation official from the European Cockpit Association told the Mirror.

"I heard that they were diverting from some showers... I think there were thunderclouds. You would ask air traffic control to divert left or right, and they would give you the permission," Nico Voorbach, president of the European Cockpit Association, was quoted as saying by the Mirror.

"I think there were thunderclouds. You would ask air traffic control to divert left or right, and they would give you the permission."

So the pilot veered off that "safe" corridor to avoid a thunderstorm regardless that he would be jeopardizing the safety of everyone on board by flying into an active war zone?

They must think the public is completely moronic.... to accept that as true.

They have to start making excuses as to why this jet was off course because they know the public will become privy to this fact that is was off course....once again the blame will fall upon the pilot, as to why it flew in to a turkey shoot location. The story is quickly becoming even more ridiculous than the story of MH370 (and we actually have a better idea where this jet MH17 actually is)

[Roisin]

Posted by sigma6 (here)

Posted by amzer zo (here)

...

"shot down by missile!"

well... Since it's been trumpeted all around on all sorts of media, the appropriate response should be to spike one's coffee or tea with a double dose of discernment... Since, as a matter of fact, such a claim is not backed up by any evidence but hearsay.

What is not trumpeted around are the jet fighters seen from ground and on the control tower radar screens... With all control tower personnel removed and replaced while their tweets were deleted.

Then there are these contradicting facts: Pilot found harnessed to his seat at the crash site but malaysian airlines reports no distress calls received...

Then there is that report about those bloodless bodies... I must say that, that was my very reaction when seeing those bodies on the live russian live stream: No blood and the bodies looked like inflatable dolls with "porcelain" skin. That is, something's not right at that site.

So here is a comment which compiles some of those pegs that don't fit anywhere:

reader comment

by: saj

someone deliberately rerouted this plane [link] "a source in russia's federal air traffic agency rosaviatsia has said that three days ago ukraine’s national security and defense council closed the airspace over eastern ukraine because of the so-called “anti-terrorist operation” that kiev conducts in the region." [link]

2 ukrainian fighters seen following malaysian jet minutes before crash [link] "two ukrainian fighters were following the passenger boeing-777 of malaysian airlines several minutes before the crash, russia’s television channel one said on friday, citing a tweet made a spanish air traffic controller of kiev’s airport borispol.

According to the spanish air traffic controller, two ukrainian fighters had been seen near the malaysian jet three minutes before it disappeared from radars.

This information is confirmed by eyewitnesses in the donetsk region who saw ukrainian warplanes near the passenger jet. They say they heard sounds of powerful blasts and saw a ukraine warplane shortly before the crash."

crashed boeing dispatcher: Two ukrainian military jets near jet before it crashed [link]

ukraine air traffic controller suggests kiev military shot down passenger plane [link]
"etn received information from an air traffic controller in kiev on malaysia airlines flight mh17....

The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in kiev, that the ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.
Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.

Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.

Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the malaysian boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the eastern ukraine conflict region." [...]

reports that putin flew similar route as mh17, presidential airport says 'hasn't overflown ukraine for long time' [link]

"i can say that putin’s plane and the malaysian boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 moscow time and the malaysian aircraft - 15:44 moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity.

"the contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical", the source added" [...]

russian radars record active operation of ukrainian air defense [link]

ukrainian buk battery radar was operational when malaysian plane downed - moscow [link]

ukraine’s anti-aircraft missile system dispatched to donetsk wednesday [link]

igor gunmen: Part of the boeing people died a few days before the disaster [link]
"according to the people who collected the bodies, most of corpses -" stale "- people have died and several days ago. For complete accuracy of this information can not vouch - of course, you need forensic conclusion.. Not all people on the plane were dead before the fall.

Secondly, the plane was discovered a large quantity of drugs, blood serum and other things, which is not typical for conventional liner. It seems that there was a medical special-load.

Third, no not insisting on anything (yet). Literally just now talked to two people personally collected the bodies immediately after the fall (both - of shakhtersk and arrived at the scene in less than half an hour after the accident). With their words and write. They stressed that many corpses were "entirely bloodless" - as if the blood curled long before the disaster. Also noted the strongest and putrid smell, marked by many locals - this odor in any weather for half an hour could not be formed, and the weather was overcast yesterday, not too hot."

prominent hiv researcher joep lange was among the victims of flight mh17 [link]

crash claims 100 top aids researchers heading to melbourne [link]

overflights over the south-east suspended jul 15 2014 [link]

malaysia strongly condemns israeli aggression in gaza [link]

flashback - are the israelis planning another false flag using the missing boeing 777? [link]

(perfectly timed) strong empirical evidence israel shot down plane [link]

plane shoot down: Approximately 14:15 utc. Israeli assault on gaza: 14:00 utc. See a connection there? And when you consider the fact that it took time to confirm the downing, the two times actually match even more closely. Israel's assault on gaza is viewed badly by the world community, what better way to bury it in the news than a plane shoot down, complete with the threat of a war with russia?

Israel uses schipol airport for drug and gun running and moving their agents in and out of europe as well as false flags. [link]

(laying the groundwork) mh-17: An exercise in foregone conclusions? [link] [link]
"this past week we have been treated to a narrative that has informed us all that the anti-fascist rebels allegedly have the means to take down airplanes at high altitudes. Alone or with the help of their claimed interchangeable partner- russia. This narrative, repeated and reinforced has never been substantiated.... No evidence given by the kiev fascists. Just unsubstantiated claims. Or as i am proposing the creation of a narrative.

That goes something like this.........

Anti fascists or russia, interchangeable, for this narrative.( interchangeable for all propaganda purposes according to kiev, the obama administration, nato and nato media etc.???)

getting back to the narrative being created all this week

*anti fascists fighters /rebels aided by russia have been shooting down planes flying at high altitude.

*therefore these same groups/partners shot down the malaysian plane" [...]

fri, 18 jul 2014 13:25 cdt

bump... Amazing summarization data ... It will be interesting to see how many of these links survive over the coming days and weeks...

Thanks Amzer for those links!!

[Roisin]

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)

Posted by Roisin (here)
Hmmmmm

LIVE: 'Malaysia Airlines jet veered off flight path to avoid thunderstorms'

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/...ms_948717.html

Malaysia Airlines jet MH17, that was shot down over eastern Ukraine's war zone, deviated from its normal flight path to avoid thunderstorms, a top aviation official from the European Cockpit Association told the Mirror.

"I heard that they were diverting from some showers... I think there were thunderclouds. You would ask air traffic control to divert left or right, and they would give you the permission," Nico Voorbach, president of the European Cockpit Association, was quoted as saying by the Mirror.

"I think there were thunderclouds. You would ask air traffic control to divert left or right, and they would give you the permission."

So the pilot veered off that "safe" corridor to avoid a thunderstorm regardless that he would be jeopardizing the safety of everyone on board by flying into an active war zone?

They must think the public is completely moronic.... to accept that as true.

They have to start making excuses as to why this jet was off course because they know the public will become privy to this fact that is was off course....once again the blame will fall upon the pilot, as to why it flew in to a turkey shoot location. The story is quickly becoming even more ridiculous than the story of MH370 (and we actually have a better idea where this jet MH17 actually is)

It's pretty unreal isn't it? I'm beside myself at the ridiculousness that's being published in mainstream news wrt to this incident. For me, it's been a real eye-opener!

[GoodETxSG]

While his You Tube Channel is sensational and highly controversial some decent Intel does come out here and there.

For all of the Airline Tickets and Passports to be in mint condition (I do not know of any European's who have Passports in mint condition) and all stacked neatly in one place and were on the aircraft they would have all had to have been inside the same container and packed in a way that the impact didn't crush the corners etc...

I have been at the crash sites of more than a few types of craft both shot down, Engineer or Maintenance Errors, and Weather/Pilot Errors. For items to hit the ground at terminal velocity (Or greater, in this case the plane "Fell") and have no signs of sudden impact damage from rolling is rare unless individually packed in the middle of each passenger's suit case with clothes around them (But we all know you travel w/Passport in hand).

For several dozen passports to be found in the manner reported just does not track. Hunting and pecking photo's of large pieces of aircraft fuselage or other parts will not change my mind on what I have seen. The passports would have been on the burned and/or battered bodies of the passengers or in their carry on luggage. If the passports were confiscated at the beginning of the flight that would be a major red flag to begin with and is unheard of except in some past foul play incidents.

All of the evidence points to the Ukraine (Or the highly paid Western Merc's) being responsible for the shoot down. They have been knowingly shelling civilian populated neighborhoods with the blessing of the current American Administration (Claiming it was ok because it was to protect the "Unity of the Ukraine", lets you know how far they would go here IMHO).

Daboo7 may be a blabber mouth but in this instance he does have a point until another explanation is provided on how the passports and other paperwork were recovered at the crash site in such pristine condition. There is a lot of disinfo going on right now as WWIII is a major goal of the CABAL to buy more time to prevent their demise. The only problem is that their old tactics only worked when they were working in the dark... Now that so many of the population are "awakened" to their existence and tactics, people are seeing through almost ALL of their "False Flag" tactics that they have used to manipulate the world for so long. In my opinion this whole incident smells, No Reek's of a Despicable Operation to escalate things in E. Ukraine and "Their" time table for Economic War followed by WWIII. IMHO...

Donetsk People’s Republic guarantees security to experts working at the Boeing crash site
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741502

FINAL – Spanish Air Controller @ Kiev Borispol Airport: Ukraine Military Shot Down Boeing #MH17
http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/201...n-boeing-mh17/

Ukraine's Security Service Has Confiscated Air Traffic Control Recordings With Malaysian Jet
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...gs-malaysian-j

Was Ukraine’s Ministry of Interior behind the Downing of Malaysian Airlines MH17?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/was-ukr...s-mh17/5391909

Ukraine Warzone: Was Flight MH-17 Diverted Over Restricted Airspace?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/was-fli...rspace/5392201



Kiev Deployed Powerful Anti-air Systems to East Ukraine ahead of the Malaysian Plane Crash
http://www.globalresearch.ca/kiev-de...an-plane-crash

Malaysia MH17 Crash: Ten Questions Russia wants Ukraine to Answer
http://www.globalresearch.ca/malaysi...aine-to-answer

EDIT: Disinfo about what is occurring in that region is rampant! What is going on is literally sanctioned war crimes. Most who watch the MSM buy every word. Those of us who have been in Intel/Counter Intel and still have contacts do not even wast time with TV or MSM News Sites. There are too many "Coincidences" to ignore...
So, ANOTHER MH Airliner "Down" (Coincidence?), Happens in the most Politically Escalation to war "HOT ZONES" (Coincidence?), Incident happens to be beneficial to the goals of the CABAL controlled Ukraine Gov. (Coincidence?)...

Russia handing over sophisticated weapons to people that do not know how to use them and accident occurs/DisInfo (Computerised craft identification & FOF ID is apart of these systems, and they are manned in the Ukraine by experienced specialists that have had & USED these systems for years, the East/"Rebels" are made up of the same trained UK specialists Deserters and Russian advisers who "Man" all Mobile SAM Batteries.

The many innocent citizens being shelled and bombed have picked up small arms but do not operate these devices, who ever put out that theory was putting out intentional disinfo or speaking from ignorance of what is happening on the ground there.)...

I do not believe in "Coincidence" especially on a "Stage with these known Actors"... That is all I have to say on the matter. I think it is pretty obvious what occurred although the details may not be known for some time unless they are successful in "painting stripes" on the "Rebels" or "Terrorists" depending on which side you talk to... IMHO.

[sigma6]

Posted by Xanth (here)
Attached is the Spanish Air Traffic Controller in Kiev tweets from his twitter account during the event, which I've translated from Spanish to English using google translate.
The twitter account appears to no longer exists. The record comes from google cache, and may soon disappear ... so I've uploaded a screenshot of the translation ...

I've no way to determine if the tweets are fake, but it looks like it adds to the body of evidence ... so people can make up their own minds ...

Added: Globalresearch article about same info
http://www.globalresearch.ca/spanish...g-mh17/5391888


There's also a link to an interview with the guy in spanish from RT (for any spanish speakers out there ) .
http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/...ucrania-crisis

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co....com/spainbuca (Original Spanish)

Why would it be fake? How could Russia or Eastern Ukraine fake a Spanish Air Traffic Controller? This is going to devastate the Western Propaganda, that and dead already smelling rotting bodies drained of blood (or dead and frozen for weeks...) Gee who likes to keep frozen bodies on storage for special occasions (Piecnenik stated this is what the US did with Bin Laden...) Never at loss for one more stage prop...

[Hervé]

The whole thing, to me, is strangely reminiscent -- in a weird way-- of another false flag event:

Sandy Hook!

Why?

Because of all the "stupid" inconsistencies planted here and there all over the place but are in fact "intelligently" placed so as to confuse each and everyone...

... truly wicked!

[SilentFeathers]

Just another jiblet of bizarreness that as it may seem is unrelated, but in someway could be related....

Malaysian protesters dressed as zombies outside a shopping mall in Kuala Lumpur on 21 February 2014 to protest the impact of the TPP on the price of medicines, including treatment drugs for HIV. The protest group consisted of students, members of the Malaysian AIDS Council, as well as HIV-positive patients, with one patient explaining that, in Malaysian ringgit, he spent between RM500 and RM600 each month on treatment drugs, but this cost would increase to around RM3,000.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Partnership

[Hervé]

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
Just another jiblet of bizarreness that as it may seem is unrelated, but in someway could be related....

Malaysian protesters dressed as zombies outside a shopping mall in Kuala Lumpur on 21 February 2014 to protest the impact of the TPP on the price of medicines, including treatment drugs for HIV. The protest group consisted of students, members of the Malaysian AIDS Council, as well as HIV-positive patients, with one patient explaining that, in Malaysian ringgit, he spent between RM500 and RM600 each month on treatment drugs, but this cost would increase to around RM3,000.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Partnership

If not directly related, it is, definitely, at a "global" level:

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
[...]

At least now, with Abomino-Care, the apples are made to taste bitterly real; like:

LIMITING ACCESS TO AFFORDABLE MEDICAL CARE MAKES ELIMINATING THE ELDERLY EASIER
A big item – [that] was elaborated at some length – was the cost of medical care would be burdensomely high. Medical care would be connected very closely with one's work, but also would be made very, very high in cost so that it would simply be unavailable to people beyond a certain time. And unless they had a remarkably rich, supporting family, they would just have to do without care.

And the idea was that if everybody says, "Enough! What a burden it is on the young to try to maintain the old people," then the young would become agreeable to helping Mom and Dad along the way, provided this was done humanely and with dignity. And then the real example was - there could be like a nice, farewell party, a real celebration. Mom and Dad had done a good job. And then after the party's over they take the "demise pill."

[rgray222]

As tempting as it is to make a massive conspiracy about this sad incident, I believe this was simply caused by a young Russian sympathizer or Russian soldier with that had been shown how to operate this sophisticated weapon but not shown (at least very well) how to identify a military plane from a commercial aircraft.

As with all of these incidents there will always be facts that do not fit, there will always be facts that logic cannot put neatly into place. This does not mean that this particular case is a conspiracy.

When the Americans shot down Iran Air Flight 655 a civilian passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai, now that may have been intentional and that may have very well been conspiratorial. After all the attack took place in Iranian airspace, over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, and on the flight's usual flight path. The aircraft, an Airbus A300, was destroyed by SM-2MR surface-to-air missiles fired from the Vincennes. All 290 on board, including 66 children and 16 crew, died. I believe that may very well have been on purpose and to send a message but this sad event over the Ukraine is nothing more than Putin making a power grab and the ineptness of his soldiers backfiring on his narcissistic plans.

Anyone who reads through the "real" details of this event can only reach one conclusion. It was not planned, it was not a conspiracy and it is what it is.

[gripreaper]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
The whole thing, to me, is strangely reminiscent -- in a weird way-- of another false flag event: Sandy Hook! Why? Because of all the "stupid" inconsistencies planted here and there all over the place but are in fact "intelligently" placed so as to confuse each and everyone... truly wicked!

Thanks for the summation Amzer Zo. It's hard to read every post when a thread moves really fast.

One of the main shifts in the last few years, which to me has been major, is the ability to entrain large segments of the population to believe that their thoughts are their own, their beliefs are their own, and their reactions are there own, when in fact, the surveillance grid, data mining, storing, collating, and meme creation based on agenda is what is driving the mass global consciousness.

To me, it is so blatant, its pathetic. Every day its pounded into our brains that there are political and religious factions fighting against each other and the only solution is war, that humans are inherently evil and cannot be trusted, that the state is the only one who can fix the problems we have, and that we should all just stay in line and follow the protocol or we will be labeled as domestic terrorists.

I do realize that people are not buying these memes as quickly and as easily as they used to, but that only makes the purveyors of the big lie more aggressive in their attempts to control consciousness and pound their crap into our heads even more.

Some of these false flags are just beta tests and are used to gather response and reaction data so that the engineers of meme control can fine tune the microwave entrainment systems to better control the fallout from the divergent miscreants, those 15% who are too conscious and too awake who cannot be entrained. There has to be some way to isolate them and make them irrelevant, right?

[Hervé]

Posted by gripreaper (here)
[...]

Some of these false flags are just beta tests and are used to gather response and reaction data so that the engineers of meme control can fine tune the microwave entrainment systems to better control the fallout from the divergent miscreants, those 15% who are too conscious and too awake who cannot be entrained. There has to be some way to isolate them and make them irrelevant, right?

Yep! Testing the water and checking the state of the terrain on how viral things can go!

It seems that they don't even care about those 15% once they've managed to polarize the remaining 85% into one set direction...

Check this thread: True Cabal Insider, Dr. Richard Day, Delivers Talk in 1969 Outlining 'the Full Agenda'

... where one can find such gems like this one (in the transcripts):

Now, reproduction without sex... what you would get then would have all the desirable attributes of a human being without any claim to human rights. The way we do it now, we say, you're human because you have a father and mother... you have a family and so you're a human being with human rights. But if your father was a petrie dish and you mother was a test tube, how can you lay claim to human rights? You owe your existence to the laboratory which conveys to you no human rights.
And there is no God, so you can't go for any God-given human rights, so you're an ideal slave. You have all the attributes of a human being but you don't have any claim on rights.

I trust you see where this is going...


Anyway:

[ktlight]

This incident took the heat off Israel's activities in Gaza. So while this happened and all the speculation about the cause took place, Israel moved in on the ground to Gaza and started killing off everyone. Meanwhile Obama and Cameron swore their allegiance again to Israel. Does no-one realise that we do not own the planet, which has been fragmented to death? It was here long before we arrived. And why is war so necessary to the West's economy. It is only humans who pay to live here.

[Cidersomerset]

Related historical article....

--------------------------------


U.S. Government Lied to Pretend that Accidental Russian Shootdown of Commercial Plane Was Intentional

Sunday 20th July 2014 at 05:29 By david-icke





‘We noted yesterday that Ukraine, Russia, the U.S., Israel and China have all accidentally shot
down commercial airplanes.

Ray McGovern – a 27-year CIA veteran, who chaired National Intelligence Estimates and
personally delivered intelligence briefings to Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W.
Bush, their vice presidents, secretaries of state, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and many other
senior government officials – provides vital details on an accidental shootdown by
Russia – and America’s disinformation campaign to make it look intentional – 3 decades ago.’

Read more: U.S. Government Lied to Pretend that Accidental Russian Shootdown of Commercial Plane Was Intentional

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/2014/07/20/


=================================================================



U.S. Government Lied to Pretend that Accidental Russian Shootdown of Commercial Plane Was Intentional … Three Decades Ago

Posted on July 19, 2014 by WashingtonsBlog


The U.S. Has Previously Carried Out a Major Disinformation Campaign to Malign Russia

We noted yesterday that Ukraine, Russia, the U.S., Israel and China have all accidentally shot down commercial airplanes.

Ray McGovern – a 27-year CIA veteran, who chaired National Intelligence Estimates and personally delivered intelligence
briefings to Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, their vice presidents, secretaries of state, the Joint Chiefs
of Staff, and many other senior government officials – provides vital details on an accidental shootdown by Russia – and
America’s disinformation campaign to make it look intentional – 3 decades ago:


The U.S. press might pause to recall how it’s been manipulated by the U.S. government in the past, including three
decades ago by the Reagan administration twisting the facts of the KAL-007 tragedy.

In that case, a Soviet fighter jet shot down a Korean Air Line plane on Sept. 1, 1983, after it strayed hundreds of miles off
course and penetrated some of the Soviet Union’s most sensitive airspace over military facilities in Kamchatka and Sakhalin Island.



Over Sakhalin, KAL-007 was finally intercepted by a Soviet Sukhoi-15 fighter. The Soviet pilot tried to signal the plane to
land, but the KAL pilots did not respond to the repeated warnings. Amid confusion about the plane’s identity — a U.S. spy
plane had been in the vicinity hours earlier — Soviet ground control ordered the pilot to fire. He did, blasting the plane out
of the sky and killing all 269 people on board.




The Soviets soon realized they had made a horrendous mistake. U.S. intelligence also knew from sensitive intercepts that
the tragedy had resulted from a blunder, not from a willful act of murder ….

But a Soviet admission of a tragic blunder regarding KAL-007 wasn’t good enough for the Reagan administration, which
saw the incident as a propaganda windfall. At the time, the felt imperative in Washington was to blacken the Soviet Union
in the cause of Cold War propaganda and to escalate tensions with Moscow.

Falsifying the Case

To make the very blackest case against Moscow, the Reagan administration suppressed the exculpatory evidence from
the U.S. electronic intercepts. The U.S. mantra became “the deliberate downing of a civilian passenger plane.” Newsweek
ran a cover emblazoned with the headline “Murder in the Sky.”

“The Reagan administration’s spin machine began cranking up,” wrote Alvin A. Snyder, then-director of the U.S.
Information Agency’s television and film division, in his 1995 book, Warriors of Disinformation.

USIA Director Charles Z. Wick “ordered his top agency aides to form a special task force to devise ways of playing
the story overseas. The objective, quite simply, was to heap as much abuse on the Soviet Union as possible,” Snyder recalled.

Snyder noted that “the American media swallowed the U.S. government line without reservation. Said the venerable
Ted Koppel on the ABC News ‘Nightline’ program: ‘This has been one of those occasions when there is very little
difference between what is churned out by the U.S. government propaganda organs and by the commercial broadcasting networks.’”

On Sept. 6, 1983, the Reagan administration went so far as to present a doctored transcript of the intercepts to
the United Nations Security Council (a prelude to a similar false presentation two decades later by Secretary of
State Colin Powell on Iraq’s alleged weapons of mass destruction).

“The tape was supposed to run 50 minutes,” Snyder said about recorded Soviet intercepts. “But the tape segment
we [at USIA] had ran only eight minutes and 32 seconds. … ‘Do I detect the fine hand of [Richard Nixon's secretary]
Rosemary Woods here?’ I asked sarcastically.’”

But Snyder had a job to do: producing the video that his superiors wanted. “The perception we wanted to convey
was that the Soviet Union had cold-bloodedly carried out a barbaric act,” Snyder wrote.

Only a decade later, when Snyder saw the complete transcripts — including the portions that the Reagan administration
had hidden — would he fully realize how many of the central elements of the U.S. presentation were false.

The Soviet fighter pilot apparently did believe he was pursuing a U.S. spy plane, according to the intercepts, and he was
having trouble in the dark identifying the plane. At the instructions of Soviet ground controllers, the pilot had circled the
KAL airliner and tilted his wings to force the aircraft down. The pilot said he fired warning shots, too. “This comment was
also not on the tape we were provided,” Snyder wrote.

It was clear to Snyder that in the pursuit of its Cold War aims, the Reagan administration had presented false accusations
to the United Nations, as well as to the people of the United States and the world. To these Republicans, the ends of
smearing the Soviets had justified the means of falsifying the historical record.

In his book, Snyder acknowledged his role in the deception and drew an ironic lesson from the incident. The senior USIA official
wrote, “The moral of the story is that all governments, including our own, lie when it suits their purposes. The key is to lie first.”


http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/...cades-ago.html

=================================================

This should go here as Ray Mc Govern talks about above article..

'Obama agrees with Putin on MH17 and vice versa. Poroshenko isolated'

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=NZwythZvgeg

Published on 19 Jul 2014


Barack Obama claims the US has firm evidence that the plane was shot down by a
missile, fired from an area controlled by anti-Kiev fighters. He also accuses Russia
of supporting them. Nevertheless US president agrees to Putin's calls to conduct
transparent investigation and saysit's too early to say who and why shot down the
plane. Ex-CIA analyst Ray McGovern see the situation as isolation for President
Poroshenko

[rgray222]

Posted by ktlight (here)
Does no-one realise that we do not own the planet, which has been fragmented to death? It was here long before we arrived. And why is war so necessary to the West's economy. It is only humans who pay to live here.

Not sure what you mean by the above statement.

My take on this is that the Palestine/Israel situation and the Malaysian flight are getting pretty much equal coverage by the mainstream media, I don't think either is bumping the other from the news.

[jackovesk]

Posted by sigma6 (here)

Why would it be fake? How could Russia or Eastern Ukraine fake a Spanish Air Traffic Controller? This is going to devastate the Western Propaganda, that and dead already smelling rotting bodies drained of blood (or dead and frozen for weeks...) Gee who likes to keep frozen bodies on storage for special occasions (Piecnenik stated this is what the US did with Bin Laden...) Never at loss for one more stage prop

(Piecnenik stated this is what the US did with Bin Laden...)

That reminds me, I was going to look into what Dr. Steve Pieczenik's ((INTEL)) was on MH17..?



Once Again, The Intelligence Theater Of The Absurd: Malaysian AF 17 “Shot Down With Missile” Over Ukraine As 70,000 Israeli Soldiers INVADE GAZA IN A NEW WAR!!

July 18, 2014

News Coverage Co-Opted by: American/Israeli/Russian/Dutch /Malaysian Intelligence Services to Divert Attention Away from Israeli Slaughter of Innocent Children, Women, Civilians In Gaza! The first and most horrific casualty in the Israeli War and Malaysian Airline Tragedy is the TRUTH! Remember that the truth is always the first victim of any war.



I must state categorically that I have never witnessed a more absurd attempt at diverting worldwide news attention away from an ACTUAL ILLEGAL INVASION by Israeli forces into another country (Gaza) than this directing of MEDIA ATTENTION to an “ALLEGED” DOWNING of yet another “MYSTERIOUS EXISTING/NON-EXISTING MALAYSIAN AIRLINE.” Yes, once again, like the ‘stand down’ in 9/11 and the sick makeshift drama of ‘Newtown’, we are now witnessed to the collective creative forces of the intelligence communities of the USA, Russia, Israel, Holland and of course, the pathetic country run by the Genting Gambling Empire: Malaysia to another narrative that RINGS FALSE.

In the world of intelligence there is one SACRED RULE nothing happens by accident! Like psychiatry, intelligence speaks most loudly in the interstices of SILENCE –what is not said and not what is in the verbal diarrhea of media, Tv pundits and histrionic articles about kids killed on board a plane. Remember: You are supposed to forget that 1800 innocent Palestinians have been wounded and close to 300 killed in a gratuitous slaughter of people in Gaza by Israeli forces. You are supposed to be distracted!

Now what do I mean?

When countries are afraid or unwilling to intercede in an imminent war, like that of Israel constantly fixated on destroying it’s own creation –HAMAS—then a new narrative must be created by the various countries to avoid their inherent responsibility to pre-empt this impending war. The narrative creators, various Intelligence services including the CIA, FSB, Mossad, Dutch intel and Malaysian ‘pimps’, have constructed a phantasmagorical plot that once again involves yet, another, “mysterious Malaysian Airline” like the former disappearing one that CNN obsessively described for over one month.



What is the evidence for my assertion?

[1] Once again, CNN in the person of the effete CIA operative Anderson Cooper brought on board for our viewing pleasure a new character whom I call “Major Mudd’, in real life a 25 year veteran of the CIA/FBI [which one are you? Or does the CIA admit they use the FBI as a ‘cover’?]. This Major Mudd explains the intricacies of HUMINT, ELITN, SIGINT, and even has the intercepted NSA recordings of “Russian Separatists BOASTING ABOUT THEIR ACHIEVEMENT WITH THEIR MISSILE STRIKE”.



How convenient!

[2] Then we have the dependable histrionic professional POW, SENATOR JOHN McCAIN blustering about ‘serious consequences‘ against the Russians.

Of course, no mention was ever made about ISRAEL’S DECLARATION OF WAR IN GAZA!! That’s irrelevant to the former ISRAELI BOUGHT presidential candidate.

How convenient!

[3] Then Six of the Major Articles in the formerly esteemed NYTimes and Washington Post are about the missile, airplane routes of Ukraine, even a touching story about a girl and her doll on the Malaysian Airline ! Yet only one minor article on the 70K man invasion into Gaza! That’s amazing editorial assessment. A possible airline downing takes precedence over an actual gritty dirty war in Gaza involving hundred of thousand innocent lives and 300 children already dead. Only the Wall Street Journal, usually pro-Israel, wrote in an extensive, detailed piece on the IDF INVASION.

[3] Yet the most revealing piece of intelligence deception was a STRATFOR REPORT by the founder and chairman of Stratfor [CIA CUT-OUT] GEORGE FRIEDMAN describing in the most obtuse, convoluted sophomoric logic ever created by a HUNGARIAN JEW how the Malaysian Airline downing and the Israel incursion reflected “geopolitical imperatives”.

Absolute and complete nonsense for which I pay $350 a year .

[4] Then to top of the Absurd narrative, we have WHO researchers on their collective way to an AIDS conference in Australia by way of Kuala Lampur, Malaysia who were killed in this sad ‘Malaysia tragedy’. BTW, Bill Clinton is the GUEST SPEAKER at the AIDS CONFERENCE.

How convenient!



I am shocked, Rick, ‘this is a Casino!’ here in Casablanca. I will round up the usual suspects and please give me my 40,000 Francs.

Now why would Russia, USA, Israel, Malaysia and Holland collaborate on this type of nonsensical narrative?
Because each country has something to gain from avoiding condemnation of Israel and helping to create another Malaysian fairy-tale.

▪ USA does not want to interfere with Israeli attempts to curb Hamas. American overtures for peace have failed and have embarrassed this administration. Also the USA owes Israel for their help in the 9/11 ‘stand down’ which killed 3000 plus innocent Americans at the World Trade Center.

▪ Russia, as I have mentioned in the previous blog, has very close relations with Israel and Lieberman [Israel Minister of Foreign Affairs] and they seek help from Israel with Syria, ISIS [Israel funds them]; and allows Russia to enter the Middle East, ass-backward.

▪ CIA, FSB, GRU and MOSSAD all like to work together at one or another time. Very convenient.

▪ Holland—Now here is the one country that has always hidden behind a Jewish Myth—The Anne Frank Story --nonsensical story used to cover up Holland’s persecution of the JEWS IN HOLLAND [93 % of all Dutch Jews were killed by the DUTCH not the Nazis]. The Anne Frank story was used to cover up WAR CRIME COLLABORATIONS BETWEEN HOLLAND AND THE NAZIS. This WWII travesty will be elaborated in another blog.

▪ Malaysia of all the East Asian countries that can ‘pimp and prostitute’ itself for money—no country can beat the MALAYSIANS. When I was DAS for EAST ASIA, I remember another medical doctor, Dr Mahatir, who was a brilliant, manipulative extractor of favors ‘granted and received’.



With respect to prostituting itself for money—Malaysia’s Genting Group wants favorable treatment in Miami, NY State, Pennsylvania in order to continue to develop MAJOR GAMBLING CASINOS all over the USA. BTW, the Genting Group in addition to running horse tracks, casinos and cruise-lines are notorious for being the drug runners of the world.

So I have presented to you, a background scenario which in my mind co-opts the nefarious narrative offered by the world wide media about some ‘real’ or ‘mythical’ Malaysian Airline which conveniently was shot down the same day that the Israelis invaded and slaughtered innocents in Gaza. Just like a skilled pick pocket or other criminal creates a “distraction” so you will not notice the REAL CRIME that is being committed. Israel knew from the beginning of the creation of Operation Dome that it would be in constant strategic tensions with the “terrorist” group it created –HAMAS—in order to test, refine and develop new weapons systems for the world-wide consortium of military industrial juggernauts eager to acquire the latest KILLING MACHINE.

What is a few hundred if not thousands of Palestinians, or Israelis or Jews, Muslims, Christians killed in the act of war? When war can give you the Miracle Weapons: drones, SDI, disease warfare, chemical weapons that command high profit margins! Greedy cowards and political elites worldwide will create all kinds of stories if it serves their purpose of economic, geopolitical and intelligence self-aggrandizement.

Hitler said it best when he decided to exterminate the Polish Jews, Slavs, Homosexuals, Gypsies, “Who remembers the Armenian Genocide of 1.2 million Armenian women, children all killed on the Death March from Turkey to Alleppo, Syria?“

Or maybe I should paraphrase Stalin, One death on a mysterious airplane is a tragedy but thousands of deaths in Gaza and Israeli are merely statistics!

Tragedy is sensational, worthy of headlines! Statistics are boring and not newsworthy. Historical amnesia and indifference are the greatest palliatives for national greed fed with nefarious deeds.

http://pieczenik.blogspot.com.au/

PS - As per usual Dr. Steve transforms the Debate into something many may not be able to grasp...

Quid Pro Quo...

(Problem-Reaction-Solution) Hidden in (PLAIN) view..!

I'm not saying his (Intel) is legit, but what I am saying the 'above' certainly should not be discarded...

[Agape]

A thought or two of mine own .. such as who might have true interest in both of the Malaysian planes disasters ..and whom you /we potentially do not count it .

I do best without links to think straight so if plenty of links are considered 'supportive evidence' you'll have to excuse me and do your own search that you'll do anyway .

Malaysia ? What do we truly know about Malaysia ?

Yes me too I have had friends there and heard it's one of the most beautiful countries in the world , with people of all different religious groups living peacefully together, the majority are Muslims but they're not that orthodox, there's plenty of unspoiled wildlife , mild climate all over the year , beautiful fruits ,
it's a progressive country in many terms .. taking care of people and environment, high living standards, and so forth .

Does it have a shady side ?

I bet sure it does . The major investors of this rapid economical and class growth in Malaysia were not the Muslim sheikhs and their descendants you see in todays government ,
theirs is a due half but maybe well 'lesser half' , the others were rich Chinese businessmen , similar people as those who built Hongkong and Singapore , and .. their Western counterparts .

You and I may not see to this ... it's in Asia .. their powerful clans and mafia wars .

What could be the reason ?

Malaysian government turning 'too pro-democracy' and establishing ties with the West ?

Many of the MA370 passengers were Chinese engineers working for US company, US patent holders .

Of course, this is not how any official government agency would think or act .. they can't afford to breach commonly accepted rules . But this is how mafia backed up by extremely rich people MAY think and act ,
to achieve aims we may know nothing about quite yet .

I can't imagine how would this serve them anyway except for pulling the strings of political imbalance , would they 'pay Putin for the expenses ' of risking a war against the world ?

It's the same people who would like to see the Chinese Dragon rising .. not by the law but by the power of money that's been hidden ..


I may be 100% wrong here but if you're searching for common denominator for the two crashes, don't be so America-centred and think everything in the world is happening because of you .
The power of America is in its openness ... while the power of the East had long been in its secrecy and hidden laws ..
two exactly opposing factors in the game, yin and yang .

The secret of the power-game is in the power being distributed equally, small or big . When serious misbalance occurs, conflicts start and may turn to wars .

If I think about meaning of these 2 accidents seriously ..and all the state of matters, internationally, I sense a warning ..

[Cidersomerset]

20 July 2014 Last updated at 16:23

MH17 air crash: Recovered bodies put on trainLatest



A freight wagon carrying the remains of MH17 victims in Torez station, eastern
Ukraine, 20 July A freight wagon carrying the remains of MH17 victims at Torez station

The remains of up to 196 people from the MH17 crash in Ukraine have been loaded
on to refrigerated rail wagons, to be taken to an unknown destination.All 298
people on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 died when a missile reportedly hit it on
Thursday. Western countries have criticised pro-Russian rebels controlling the area
for restricting access to the crash site.

The rebels say they will hand MH17's flight recorders to the International Civil
Aviation Organization.



Most of the recovered bodies are thought to have been put in refrigerated rail wagons

Read more....


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28389991

====================================================




19 July 2014 Last updated at 17:47

MH17 Malaysia plane crash in Ukraine: What we knowLatest



All 298 people on board a Malaysia Airlines plane have died after the airliner
crashed in eastern Ukraine, close to the border with Russia.

Flight MH17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was travelling over the conflict-hit
region when it disappeared from radar. A total of 283 passengers, including some
80 children, and 15 crew members were on board.



Map showing the flight path and crash site of flight MH17
Graphic: altitude




Read more.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28357880

[Zamolxe]

Posted by rgray222 (here)
Anyone who reads through the "real" details of this event can only reach one conclusion. It was not planned, it was not a conspiracy and it is what it is.

I also believe that. Russia made the huge mistake to hand the rebels a Buk launcher without thinking that they might actually shoot down a passenger airliner by mistake. It's also possible that the Ukraine army tried to provoke them by flying fighter bombers behind the aircraft, maybe to make them believe it's a transport plane, alraedy having knowledge of the presence of the launcher in the area.
But in the end it was a mistake giving poorly trained rebels such powerful weaponry.
They were playing this war like it's a game and eventually got burned.
Of course for Isrel and the cabal this event was a jackpot and tried to use it to their advantage.
That's why conflict is never the answer, peaceful protest followed by truthful debate and negotiations should always be sought.

The following events happened before the crash and before the Ukrainian army brought the launchers to the front line to defend from possible russian air skirmishes.
The russian state news agency reported that the rebels captured a Buk launcher from the Ukrainian army (this tipicaly means that they gave them a launcher and set up the news so that they have an answer if anybody assumed Russia sent it accross the border- The ukraine army did not report this. Don't you think they would do that immediately, exactly not to be framed in case of an event? REMEMBER: russian propaganda said this, not ukrainian media); they boasted the capture on twitter and facebook. Pictures and videos appeared with the launcher on the streets of a rebel controlled town.

[Zamolxe]

Posted by rgray222 (here)

Posted by ktlight (here)
Does no-one realise that we do not own the planet, which has been fragmented to death? It was here long before we arrived. And why is war so necessary to the West's economy. It is only humans who pay to live here.

Not sure what you mean by the above statement.

My take on this is that the Palestine/Israel situation and the Malaysian flight are getting pretty much equal coverage by the mainstream media, I don't think either is bumping the other from the news.

Actually I think that because they were going to invade anyway, this event was an opportunity to take a considerable amount of heat off it. It's just a tactical decision after hearing the crash took place.