Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

[KiwiElf]

Well that was "enlightening".... Obama looked and sounded really pissed off about something (altho his statement seemed (reluctantly) objective...) then flash to a Ukrainian advisor/minister who likened the situation to being "just like 9/11 or Lockerbie". I wonder what he was really getting at??? Also very positive and objective about how it should be handled from this point forward.

[linksplatinum]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=28MrASx-RiM

I have to say, They were gonna fool a whole lot of people with this one! Thankfully, they have been caught!
The Ukraine Government supported a youtube clip that they say proves Russia had involvement and that Rebels shot down Malaysia Flight MH17. However, Due to their sloppy work, They have been caught! They have since tried to delete the file, but not before it was downloaded over 800 times! More info at links!
LINKS WITHIN POST ON YOUTUBE

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Cidersomerset (here)
Malaysian Airlines plane crash: Russian military unveil data on MH17 incident over Ukraine (FULL)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=4bNPInuSqfs

Posted by jerry (here)
Is this the smoking gun? http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...-warplanes-mh1

Same report ... of Russia's evidence and questions for the Ukraine government, via Zerohedge.

If there are global controllers behind all this, then they have apparently determined to have Russia be the credible one these days, and the US be the propaganda spewing liar and tyrant.

It's VERY possible that the whole US/Ukraine narrative could be turned upside down by the end of this week (or sooner).

ADDED: yeap, FOX News just picked this up too....

Russia is asking Ukraine why one of its warplanes flew within 3-5km of the Malaysian plane. They say they detected the fighter jet picking up speed towards flight MH17 and that the passenger plane diverged 14kn from flight path near Donetsk.
They also claim to have images of Ukraine military deploying BUK rockets in the East of the region and have asked the US for evidence of claims that the missile was fired from a rebel held area. They say they did not detect any missiles launched near the path of the Malaysian plane’s flight path so want the US to share any satellite images, “if they have them”
http://www.forexlive.com/blog/2014/0...-21-july-2014/

Also, if Russia is being forthcoming that it did not detect "any missile launch" near MH17, that would imply a possible on board bomb that took the plane down. Surely Russia would of detected a missile launch from the Ukraine fighter jet.....unless they are holding that card to play later.

[Cidersomerset]

If there are global controllers behind all this, then they have apparently determined to have Russia be the credible one these days, and the US be the propaganda spewing liar and tyrant.

That is the question I've been keeping at the back of my mind,
Who's pulling the strings behind this show....


Its a great diversion for the Israeli steam roller in Gaza.....


David Icke - Problem-Reaction-Solution Explained

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=iEz5fQ_Pm-g

====================================================


Israel-Gaza conflict: Strip suffers bloodiest day after ‘heinous massacre’

Monday 21st July 2014 at 07:06 By david-icke





‘A night and day of ferocious violence has resulted in more than 100 deaths in
Gaza, with Palestinian accusations that a bloody assault on the town of Shuja’iya
by Israeli forces, leaving bodies on the streets and buildings destroyed, was
motivated by revenge for the deaths of 13 soldiers.



The Israeli losses were one of the largest in one operation suffered in recent
times by the Jewish state. Qassam Brigade, the military wing of Hamas, had
claimed that it had lured troops into a minefield. But the Israeli military stated
that the deaths came in separate incidents overnight involving improvised
explosive devices and a firefight.’

Read more: Israel-Gaza conflict: Strip suffers bloodiest day after 'heinous massacre'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...e-9617626.html





‘Following a similar resolution passed last week by the U.S. House, the U.S. Senate
voted Thursday night to support Israel’s ongoing invasion of the Gaza Strip.

No dissenting vote was cast, and no mention was made of the hundreds of
Palestinian civilians, most of whom are women and children, that have been killed
by Israel in the past ten days.

Senate Resolution 498 was authored by Bob Menendez (D-NJ) and Lindsey Graham
(R-SC), with additional support by Ben Cardin (D-MD) and son of former Republican
party politician Ron Paul, Rand Paul (R-KY).’

Read more: US Senate Unanimously Passes Resolution Supporting Israeli Assault
on Gaza

http://www.imemc.org/article/68523



------------------------------------------------------------

Putin is no angel.....




Demonstrators in Moscow protest Vladimir Putin's re-election, including one
carrying a sign reading "We are not an opposition, we are your employers!



Or could he be ??? ... LOL

[jackovesk]

There’s Something Strange Going On Here!

Monday, July 21, 2014

In the latest video release from YouTuber TheScariestMovieEver, we see a number of “oddities” highlighted that point to some disturbing occult connections with Ukraine, from the oldest pyramids in the world appearing to shoot out beams of energy, to the Trident symbolism in Ukraine and the Malaysia planes, one missing and one shot down, the indicators of “rituals”, with numerology and other things that point to Illuminati and Freemasonry.

Is Ukraine meant to be the kick off to World War III? Consider some of what is shown in the video below, the similarities of Russia moving in shortly after the oldest pyramid was found in Crimea, the same type of event that happened when the military took over and sealed the chambers inside the pyramids of Giza after they were opened.

Is it all connected, coincidence, or do the pyramids, the occult symbolism, the weird and unusual events surrounding Ukraine and the actions taken there along with the timing of those actions, indicate as the video suggests, that “There’s Something Weird About Ukraine?”

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=AbxVqfVWUXk

http://beforeitsnews.com/strange/201...e-2457270.html

[Selene]

The Russian press conference on RT is a major game-changer.

Especially kewl that the Russians pointed out they were aware an American spy satellite had been moved into position overhead just ahead of the shoot-down. This removes any deniability the Americans may have had about "no footage..." Now they'll be forced to make it - or fake it.

Great game.



Cheers,

Selene

[airaspect]

Posted by GoodeTXSG (here)
[B][COLOR="#4b0082"]Ummm, so looking up at the posts... Where you implying the passports were when they were not always kept with a passenger?

Carry-on luggage. That way the passport might be intact even if the body is burnt.

No need to leave We don't have to agree, but I just don't see the data here that I'm supposedly ignoring.

[Hervé]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)

How misdirections keep about everyone busy down labyrinths with no exits:

Who said it was a BUK missile?

Any evidence for it beside unsubstantiated assertions?

[...]

The story of the disaster of the Malaysian Boeing 777 en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, acquires more and more new details

July 20, 2014, 15:12, Photo: Andrew Stenin / RIA "Novosti"

Author: Dmitry Litovkin
http://www.vzglyad.ru/society/2014/7/20/696411.html
[...]
Judging by the damaged remains of the Boeing 777, the expert concludes that the aircraft was fired upon by missiles from jet fighters.

Full article: http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin...gi?read=312787

Full view:

... which quenched my suspicion that the first picture above might not have been from the downed MH17.

However these pictures point to another question since it seems that the projectiles are the wrong way to:

... they seem to be coming from the fuselage...

... that raises the question of a bomb inside that plane...

That would make more sense than to leave it to drunken knuckleheads having a vague notion of what they are supposed to be doing and because this is a false flag event as ascertained by MSM outcries and pointing fingers before any data could be analyzed.

Any projectile-impacts expert(s) around?

[Operator]

Posted by jerry (here)
Is this the smoking gun? http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...-warplanes-mh1

I'm afraid there will be no smoking gun. just a media fight and everybody loses ... stalemate.

The US claims to have proof that the pro-Russian rebels launched from the ground and the Russians
claim to have proof that the Ukrainians are involved. And then there is the claim from the Spanish
air traffic controller.

What they will ultimately prove is that media can be manipulated to convince the public of
whatever viewpoint they wish. They can't all be right ...
So that's why all parties are in a wait-and-see state. Whoever pushes on to prove a point
risks to be detected manipulating the data.

The situation on the chessboard is becoming too complex and untenable to end with a clear
winner ... We lose because there will be no clear answers. Perhaps we may only gain that they
are going to mess up and show each others' skeletons in the closet.

[Cidersomerset]

Well that was "enlightening".... Obama looked and sounded really pissed off about something (altho his statement seemed (reluctantly) objective...) then flash to a Ukrainian advisor/minister who likened the situation to being "just like 9/11 or Lockerbie". I wonder what he was really getting at??? Also very positive and objective about how it should be handled from this point forward.

Are they switching the narrative to 'Terrorists' , but who ? A knew Bogey man Uhm !!

===================================================

Obama accuses rebels in Ukraine of tampering with evidence at MH17 crash cite

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=i35zKG1bdTM

Published on 21 Jul 2014


US President Barack Obama is making comments on Ukraine and the Malaysia
Airlines MH17 crash, from the White House.

[Centauri]

ok. just for kicks.
Airaspect and Zamolxe.
Since this plane did not go down in France or some other country where we would not immediately suspect a political angle, Let us assume that the key players here are the Current Ukranian Government Officials(CUGO) and the Pro-Russian Ukranian Citizens(PRUC). I just made those two labels up since the other labels given are just dripping with newspeak.
Everyone knows who I'm talking about for those two camps. Then let's broaden those two camps to include their PROVEN supporter/beneficiaries.

I would be interested to see a list of what you guys think are the motives and beneficial results of those motives for this 'investigation',blame-flinging, and even the crash itself surrounding this plane crash in respect to the CUGO and the PRUC. Here's a text illustration of what I mean!

CUGO motives/benefits l PRUC motives/benefits
-------------------------------------------------------------



I'm just curious how these lists will look according to your political/economic world-view. Anyone else who wants to do this list for fun is welcome!

Or not.

[GoodETxSG]

This is going to tick a lot of the DAHBOO7 haters from other threads but actionable intel is coming out on his channel. One example of a thread that has gone down in flames because of the source of the info is = Thread: BUSTED! 'Fresh Passports' Pulled From Truck at Flight MH17 Crash Site! - https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...17-Crash-Site-
Stand by and watch this one picked apart as well. Noting the UN's and patterns of postings I am beginning to see more than just disruptive types looking for a debate.

There is so much about this downed air craft that is obviously a blown false flag that the culprits are moving as fast as they can to move their agenda's while the news cycle favors their stories and before the people they have brain washed shake the programming and start to use reason and see what is going on. This is exactly what I warned about in my Thread (Find it in my profile, Bankers & Ex-Intel types disappearing... last 2 pages of thread) about massive Disinfo and False Flag Programs being "Green Lit" several months back...

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by linksplatinum (here)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=28MrASx-RiM

This was posted a couple of days ago, at Malaysian Plane 'Crashes With 295 On Board' - Ukrainian adviser claims the plane was shot down -- Post #121.

I'll close this present thread, so as not to distract further from the main thread on this.

[Cidersomerset]

A presentation to the press of the situation as seen by the Russian Defence force.
It is interesting and they ask questions of Kiev and the US as they go along.
The interpretor has a strong accent and some words are hard to hear. Near
the end they talk about a US spy ? ( could not understand ) some sort of
experimental space surveillance devise to detect missile launches amongst
other things.

They confirm that Russia has not supplied, the rebels with any anti Aircraft
missile systems, and shows satalitte pictures of Ukrainian missile systems
sites before and after the crash. Also says the film of the missiles on the
lorry and tlr said to be going to Russia , is in fact in the Ukraine and points
out a sign in the picture, and then goes on to ask questions about it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Malaysian Airlines plane crash: Russian military unveil data on MH17 incident over Ukraine (FULL)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=4bNPInuSqfs

Published on 21 Jul 2014


The Russian Defense Ministry holds a press conference on the details of MH17 crash in
eastern Ukraine. Defense Ministry reports that on the day of the catastrophe, a Ukrainian
SU-25 fighter jet gaining height towards the Boeing 777. Calling for Kiev to explain why
the fighter jet was tracking the airplane.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jacko's post........Ron Paul is on the right trail...


What the Media Won’t Report About Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17

July 21, 2014

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=8guKpjF9Z-Y

Just days after the tragic crash of a Malaysian Airlines flight over eastern Ukraine, Western
politicians and media joined together to gain the maximum propaganda value from the disaster.
It had to be Russia; it had to be Putin, they said. President Obama held a press conference to
claim – even before an investigation – that it was pro-Russian rebels in the region who were
responsible. His ambassador to the UN, Samantha Power, did the same at the UN Security
Council – just one day after the crash!

While western media outlets rush to repeat government propaganda on the event, there are
a few things they will not report.

THEY WILL NOT REPORT that the crisis in Ukraine started late last year, when EU and
US-supported protesters plotted the overthrow of the elected Ukrainian president, Viktor
Yanukovych. Without US-sponsored “regime change,” it is unlikely that hundreds would
have been killed in the unrest that followed. Nor would the Malaysian Airlines crash have
happened.

The media has reported that the plane must have been shot down by Russian forces or
Russian-backed separatists, because the missile that reportedly brought down the plane
was Russian made. But they will not report that the Ukrainian government also uses the
exact same Russian-made weapons.

THEY WILL NOT REPORT that the post-coup government in Kiev has, according to OSCE
monitors, killed 250 people in the breakaway Lugansk region since June, including 20 killed
as government forces bombed the city center the day after the plane crash! Most of these
are civilians and together they roughly equal the number killed in the plane crash. By
contrast, Russia has killed no one in Ukraine, and the separatists have struck largely
military, not civilian, targets.

THEY WILL NOT REPORT that the US has strongly backed the Ukrainian government in
these attacks on civilians, which a State Department spokeswoman called “measured and moderate.”

THEY WILL NOT REPORT that neither Russia nor the separatists in eastern Ukraine have
anything to gain but everything to lose by shooting down a passenger liner full of civilians.

THEY WILL NOT REPORT that the Ukrainian government has much to gain by pinning the
attack on Russia, and that the Ukrainian prime minister has already expressed his pleasure
that Russia is being blamed for the attack.

THEY WILL NOT REPORT that the missile that apparently shot down the plane was from a
sophisticated surface-to-air missile system that requires a good deal of training that the
separatists do not have.

THEY WILL NOT REPORT that the separatists in eastern Ukraine have inflicted considerable
losses on the Ukrainian government in the week before the plane was downed.

THEY WILL NOT REPORT how similar this is to last summer’s US claim that the Assad
government in Syria had used poison gas against civilians in Ghouta. Assad was also
gaining the upper hand in his struggle with US-backed rebels and the US claimed that
the attack came from Syrian government positions. Then, US claims led us to the brink
of another war in the Middle East. At the last minute public opposition forced Obama to
back down – and we have learned since then that US claims about the gas attack were false.

Of course it is entirely possible that the Obama administration and the US media has it
right this time, and Russia or the separatists in eastern Ukraine either purposely or
inadvertently shot down this aircraft. The real point is, it’s very difficult to get accurate
information so everybody engages in propaganda. At this point it would be unwise to
say the Russians did it, the Ukrainian government did it, or the rebels did it. Is it so
hard to simply demand a real investigation?

http://www.prisonplanet.com/what-the...ight-mh17.html

[cursichella1]

Gotta love Pepe Escobar..."It was Putin's missile?" (because the U.S. says so!)

It was Putin’s missile?

Published time: July 19, 2014 15:29

Reuters / Maxim Zmeyev

Here’s the spin war verdict: the current Malaysian Airlines tragedy – the second in four months – is “terrorism” perpetrated by “pro-Russian separatists” armed by Russia and Putin is the main culprit. End of story. Anyone who believes otherwise, shut up.

Why? Because the CIA said so. Because Hillary ‘We came, we saw, he died’ Clinton said so. Because crazy Samantha ‘R2P’ Power said so – thundering at the UN, everything duly printed by the neo-con infested Washington Post.

Because Anglo-American corporate media – from CNN to Fox (who tried to buy Time Warner, which owns CNN) – said so. Because the President of the United States (POTUS) said so. And mostly because Kiev had vociferously said so in the first place.

Right off the bat they were all lined up – the invariably hysterical reams of ‘experts’ of the ‘US intelligence community’ literally foaming at their palatial mouths at ‘evil’ Russia and ‘evil’ Putin; intel ‘experts’ who could not identify a convoy of gleaming white Toyotas crossing the Iraqi desert to take Mosul. And yet they have already sentenced; they don’t need to look any further, instantly solving the MH17 riddle.

It doesn’t matter that President Putin has stressed the MH17 tragedy must be investigated objectively. And ‘objectively’ certainly does not mean that fictional ‘international community’ notion construed by Washington – the usual congregation of pliable vassals/patsies.
And what about Carlos?

A simple search reveals that MH17 was in fact diverted 200km north from the usual flight path taken by Malaysian Airlines in the previous days – and plunged right in the middle of a war zone. Why? What sort of communication had MH17 received from the Kiev air control tower?

Kiev has been mute about it. Yet the answer would be simple, had Kiev released the Air Traffic Control recording of the tower talking to flight MH17; Malaysia did it after flight MH370 disappeared forever.

It won’t happen; SBU security confiscated it. So much for getting an undoctored explanation as to why MH17 was off its path, and what the pilots saw and said before the explosion.

The Russian Defense Ministry, for its part, has confirmed that a Kiev-controlled Buk anti-aircraft missile battery was operational near the MH17’s crash. Kiev has deployed several batteries of Buk surface-to-air missile systems with at least 27 launchers; these are all perfectly capable of bringing down jets flying at 33,000 ft.

Radiation from a battery’s Kupol radar, deployed as part of a Buk-M1 battery near Styla [a village some 30km south of Donetsk] was detected by the Russian military. According to the ministry, the radar could be providing tracking information to another battery which was at a firing distance from MH17’s flight path.

The tracking radar range on the Buk system is a maximum of 50 miles (80km). MH17 was flying at 500mph. So assuming the ‘rebels’ had an operational Buk and did it, they would have had not more than five minutes to scan all the skies above, all possible altitudes, and then lock on. By then they would have known that a cargo plane could not possibly be flying that high.

For evidence supporting the possibility of a false flag, check here.

And then there’s the curiouser and curiouser story of Carlos, the Spanish air traffic controller working at Kiev’s tower, who was following MH17 in real time. For some Carlos is legit - not a cipher; for others, he’s never even worked in Ukraine. Anyway he tweeted like mad. His account – not accidentally – has been shut down and he has disappeared. His friends are now desperately looking for him. I managed to read all his tweets in Spanish when the account was still online. And now copies and an English translation are available.

These are some of his crucial tweets:

“The B777 was escorted by 2 Ukrainian fighter jets minutes before disappearing from radar (5.48pm)”

“If the Kiev authorities want to admit the truth 2 fighter jets were flying very close a few minutes before the incident but did not shoot down the airliner (5.54)”

“As soon as the Malaysia Airlines B777 disappeared the Kiev military authority informed us of the shooting down. How did they know? (6.00)”

"Everything has been recorded on radar. For those that don’t believe it, it was taken down by Kiev; we know that here (in traffic control) and the military air traffic control know it too (7.14)”

“The Ministry of the Interior did know that there were fighter aircraft in the area, but the Ministry of Defense didn’t. (7.15)”

“The military confirm that it was Ukraine, but it is not known where the order came from. (7.31)”

Carlos’s assessment (a partial compilation of his tweets is collected here: the missile was fired by the Ukraine military under orders of the Ministry of Interior - NOT the Ministry of Defense. Security matters at the Ministry of the Interior happen to be under Andrey Paruby, who was closely working alongside US neo-cons and Banderastan neo-Nazis on Maidan.

Assuming Carlos is legit, the assessment makes sense. The Ukrainian military are divided between Chocolate king [President Petro] Poroshenko – who would like a détente with Russia essentially to advance his shady business interests - and St. Yulia Tymoshenko, who’s on the record advocating genocide of ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine. US neo-cons and US “military advisers” on the ground are proverbially hedging their bets, supporting both the Poroshenko and Tymoshenko factions.
So who profits?

The key question remains, of course, cui bono? Only the terminally brain dead believe shooting a passenger jet benefits the federalists in eastern Ukraine, not to mention the Kremlin.

As for Kiev, they’d have the means, the motive and the window of opportunity to pull it off – especially after Kiev’s militias have been effectively routed, and were in retreat, in the Donbass. And this after Kiev remained dead set on attacking and bombing the population of eastern Ukraine even from above. No wonder the federalists had to defend themselves.

And then there’s the suspicious timing. The MH17 tragedy happened two days after the BRICS announced an antidote to the IMF and the World Bank, bypassing the US dollar. And just as Israel ‘cautiously’ advances its new invasion/slow-motion-ethnic-cleansing of Gaza. Malaysia, by the way, is the seat of the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission, which has found Israel guilty of crimes against humanity.

Washington, of course, does profit. What the Empire of Chaos gets in this case is a ceasefire (so the disorganized, battered Kiev militias may be resupplied); the branding of eastern Ukrainians as de facto ‘terrorists’ (as Kiev, Dick Cheney-style, always wanted); and unlimited mud thrown over Russia and Putin in particular until Kingdom Come. Not bad for a few minutes’ work. As for NATO, that’s Christmas in July.

From now on, it all depends on Russian intelligence. They have been surveilling/tracking everything that happens in Ukraine 24/7. In the next 72 hours, after poring over a lot of tracking data, using telemetry, radar and satellite tracking, they will know which type of missile was launched, from where, and even produce communications from the battery that launched it. And they will have access to forensic evidence.

Unlike Washington – who already knows everything, with no evidence whatsoever (remember 9/11?) – Moscow will take its time to know the basic journalistic facts of what, where, and who, and engage on proving the truth and/or disproving Washington’s spin.

The historical record shows Washington simply won’t release data if it points to a missile coming from its Kiev vassals. The data may even point to a bomb planted on MH17, or mechanical failure – although that’s unlikely. If this was a terrible mistake by the Novorossiya rebels, Moscow will have to reluctantly admit it. If Kiev did it, the revelation will be instantaneous. Anyway we already know the hysterical Western response, no matter what; Russia is to blame.

Putin is more than correct when he stressed this tragedy would not have happened if Poroshenko had agreed to extend a ceasefire, as Merkel, Hollande and Putin tried to convince him to do in late June. At a minimum, Kiev is already guilty because they are responsible for safe passage of flights in the airspace they – theoretically – control.

But all that is already forgotten in the fog of war, tragedy and hype. As for Washington’s hysterical claims of credibility, I leave you with just one number: Iran Air 655.

The statements, views and opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of RT.

Pepe Escobar is the roving correspondent for Asia Times/Hong Kong, an analyst for RT and TomDispatch, and a frequent contributor to websites and radio shows ranging from the US to East Asia.

http://rt.com/op-edge/174088-was-it-putin-missile/

[Cidersomerset]

This is a war zone.....




21 July 2014 Last updated at 17:41

Donetsk clashes hamper MH17 work

Pro-Russian militant aims Kalashnikov during combat with Ukrainian forces in
eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk. 21 July 2014



Fighting is reported near the airport and railway station in Donetsk



The BBC's Fergal Keane reports from Donetsk in east Ukraine amid concern that
fighting between government forces and pro-Russian rebels could hamper the
recovery of bodies from the downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.

The fighting poses an obvious question - with the world demanding security for air
crash investigators, why did the government choose this moment to advance near
the regional capital?

Concerns over the security of international teams could be increased by the latest
fighting in Donetsk.For three hours close to the railway station I watched as several
hundred civilians fled past. There was shelling throughout the morning, some from
Grad rockets but also mortar fire and intermittent sniper shots. Most of this seemed
to be coming from the direction of villages on the road between the airport and the
railway station.It was impossible to be sure who was firing or in which direction.
However, we saw the aftermath of a rocket strike in the
playground of an apartment complex close to the station - a rebel controlled area.

Scene of rocket strike in Donetsk. 21 July 2014


Three people were reported killed in the rocket strike in Donetsk
Next to the crater lay a pool of blood, a man's shoes and a pair of glasses.

A witness, Yevgeny, who helped to remove the bodies, told us three people had
been killed - two men and a woman.

There was a trail of blood on the stairs of the apartment building. An old man living
there told us he supported a united
Ukraine but he blamed the government for the attack.

"How can our president do this to us?" he asked.

A woman fleeing with her young daughter said she had seen the corpse of a woman
lying in a yard. She began to cry as she described the scene.

"We just want to escape," she said.

Rebel reinforcements - including tanks and armoured personnel carriers - sped past.

The militia in our sector were nervous. I saw them beat one man who wasn't
moving quickly enough out of the conflict zone.

Two others were taken prisoner - we couldn't establish why - and forced to sit by
the side of the road.

"Is this what it is going to be like?" one asked.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28408929

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Ukraine conflict: 'People panicking'7 hours ago

Heavy fighting has been reported in the main pro-Russia rebel-held city of Donetsk
in eastern Ukraine.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=5VEx4eDglJw

The BBC's special correspondent Fergal Keane said there appeared to be military
action at the city's airport and at the railway station.

"People are panicking, they're afraid", he said. "We've been watching them run past
us all morning."

Read more
MH17 plane crash: Dutch experts examine bodies

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


BBC reporter given Ukraine crash victim's wallet - BBC News

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=WoB2HDTLIos

Published on 21 Jul 2014


Three Dutch investigators have examined bodies from the crashed Malaysia Airlines
passenger plane, which are being kept on a train in east Ukraine.

The experts said the train may later leave the rebel-held town of Torez to start
identification process.

All 298 people on board MH17 died - the Ukrainian government says 272 bodies
have been recovered.

[cursichella1]

Posted by jackovesk (here)
There’s Something Strange Going On Here!

Was there not a pyramid(s?) found in the former Yugoslavia before we became involved in that civil war, too? Then, there's the Ziggurat of Zur in Iraq...kind of looking like a pattern...

[Hervé]

China Blasts "One-Sided Western Rush To Judge Russia" Over MH17

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 07/21/2014 09:07 -0400

"The West has successfully put itself in a position to dictate 'political correctness' in international discourse," China exclaims via a Global Times editorial on MH17 on Monday, "those unwilling to work with Western interests will often find themselves in a tough position." China's first public statement that "The Western rush to judge Russia is not based on evidence or logic," comes on the heels of Vladimir Putin's address last night jabbing the West "no one should not have the right to use this tragedy to achieve selfish political objectives." China appears to have crossed the line, siding very clearly with Russia as they conclude, "It is yet another example of the power of Western opinion as a political tool."

As Time reports, On July 18, shortly after Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 crashed over eastern Ukraine, extinguishing 298 lives, China’s Xinhua state news agency cautioned against making snap judgments...

The one-sided accusation is not surprising in light of their long-time stance on the crisis in eastern Ukraine, and their attitude towards Russia’s absorption of Crimea in March. But without convincing evidence, jumping to a conclusion will only heighten regional tension and is not conducive to finding out the truth.

Russian President Vladimir Putin late Thursday said it is Ukraine that bears the responsibility as the tragedy occurred over its territory. The tragedy, Putin said, could have been avoided should Ukraine’s eastern regions be in peace.

On July 21, the People’s Daily, the Chinese Communist Party’s mouthpiece, ran a piece still cautioning that “no proof has been found so far to clarify the cause or identify the perpetrator.”
...
The same day, the Global Times, a Chinese Communist Party–linked daily that can be counted on for nationalist commentary, did at least mention such a possibility — if only to decry Western governments’ speculation that Russia may have aided and abetted the rebels’ cause:

The Western rush to judge Russia is not based on evidence or logic. Russia had no motive to bring down MH17; doing so would only narrow its political and moral space to operate in the Ukrainian crisis.

The tragedy has no political benefit for Ukrainian rebel forces, either. Russia has been back-footed, forced into a passive stance by Western reaction. It is yet another example of the power of Western opinion as a political tool.

China may soon have to reconcile this foreign-policy quandary. “It will bring about a severe challenge to China’s general strategy and diplomacy if America and Europe propose sanctions against Russia and demand China should join with them,” wrote Chinese security analyst Gao Feng in a widely disseminated blog post. “For China, the issue is which side it should choose. Without doubt, an ambiguous stance [by Beijing] will face criticism and moral pressure.”

* * *
Criticism of the West is escalating more broadly however...

“The West has successfully put itself in a position to dictate ‘political correctness’ in international discourse,” said the Global Times editorial on MH17 on Monday. “Those unwilling to work with Western interests will often find themselves in a tough position.”

***************************************************************

Seems like "BRICS" stands for something in actuality...

[Zamolxe]

We're not discussing who actually shot the plane down. Just that this video from DHABOO7 is really really stupid.

Of course Russia has A LOT to lose from this event and it is a HUGE advantage for the western powers. But that has nothing to do with this utter nonsense passport story.

You guys keep asking where the passports were stored and why they weren't on the person.
Usually, when someone boards a plane they don't need the passport until landing and they have 3 options:
- hold it in their hand (as someone here said the case should have been) for x hours until reaching the destination
- put it in your pocket - I don't believe many people like this as a passport is very uncomfortable in your jeans/pants pockets and also there tends to be a fear of damaging it (how ironic) because it is regarded as precious, and if it's damaged you have to go through the nasty process of reissuing one. a damaged passport can be rejected at customs!
- put it in a convenient compartment in your purse/bag/backpack/manpurse/small luggage - which you store in the overhead compartment or next to you on your seat.

I personally believe a great percentage of the passangers choose the 3rd option (based on what I have always done when flying or what I have observed other family/friends/people around me) and also based on PURE LOGIC.

So, when a plane breaks apart in the air, some of these storage options will begin to fall to the ground.

these "bags" will not be obliterated when they hit the ground because air friction increases with speed and when friction balances with the down force (mass times gravitation acceleration) the speed stabilizes. I don't think a backpack or purse would actually have a greater speed hitting the ground when thrown from 10000 meters or from the 10th floor. Is it really necessary to do this test? I'm actually considering placing my old passport in a pocket of my backpack so that we can see how much it is damaged when thrown out a window at the 10th floor. I bet the air speed stabilizes at around half way down.

I'll attach new photos from the crash site showing almost INTACT luggage. But I'll be accused again of posting fake photos, even if similar footage was also taken by the rebels or russian media. Any passport kept in a pocket of these bags would have probably suffered almost no damage

This discussion is getting really ridiculous and I'm amazed that it had to go this far...

[SilentFeathers]

It'll be interesting to see if this transaction will take place....

The leader of the pro-Russian rebels has agreed to hand over both black boxes from Flight 17 to Malaysian investigators who are in Ukraine, Malaysia's prime minister said early Tuesday.

Prime Minister Najib Razak also said that as part of an agreement he reached by phone with rebel leader Alexander Borodai on Monday evening, independent international investigators will be given "safe access" to the site where the Malaysia Airlines jet went down in eastern Ukraine en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur on Thursday, killing all 298 people onboard.

Najib said that as part of the agreement, the black boxes would be handed over to the Malaysian team in Donetsk at 9 p.m. Monday Ukraine time.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...aysia-24649427

....and if the transfer does happen, then what? I reckon the FBI will lend a helping hand and we all know how that goes...