Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

[ktlight]

With all the technology in our skies, I feel we can say for certain that what happened is known.

As far as knowledge of intent and by whom/what, we can only wait and see.

But, given that USA, UK, Israel and a few others are now known to be the terrorists (it is public knowledge), I feel manipulation is being carried out to try and put blame where it should not be placed. There is a definite pattern over even the past few years. And, given the rhetoric of USA, UK, Israeli leaders, Putin is in their sights, and I feel that Putin is clever and astute enough to outwit their plans. USA, UK and Israel are sulking over BRICS and the fact that the dollar is on its way out.

[Pam]

Posted by Zamolxe (here)
Some of you users keep pointing out the passports...

This is actually getting really hard to comprehend.

Are you actually implying that there was no "real plane" and "real passangers or relatives" -- or that actually there was a real plane and it was switched, afterwards the passports were planted to make us believe it was the actual real plane that crashed?

Why would the cabal need to go totally over their heads to:

- somehow switch the plane - this implies masking the radar signature of the real and dummy plane; take the real plane somewhere else; if the plane was switched, why not plant the passports in the fake plane instead of planting them at the crash site?

- fill the dummy plane with bodies that could be easily analyzed

- set up hundreds and hundreds of would be relatives in Holland, US, Australia, Malaysia, etc... so that when they receive the remains, not disclose that it's not the real passengers. - and what about the relatives of the real missing people? will they not be asked to identify the remains?

- get in the rebel controlled area to plant passports and tons of debree to make us believe this was the actual plane that took off from Holland

I could go on but maybe I made my point...

Why would they do all this when the cabal could have actually shot down the plane? Doesn't it seem unpractical?









I have already posted photos with intact pieces of luggage or almost intact pieces of fuselage where you can clearly see undamaged objects that were inside the plane.
So, either they were planted, and we'll need answers to the questions above, or the luggage fell from the plane and could have easily contained the passports.
Another user also said that it's impossible, the passports should have been in their hands... I can't imagine who still holds their passport in their hand 3 hours after takeoff - you put it in the carry-on luggage... and actually if it was in their hands and the plane blew apart, shouldn't it fall to the ground really gently? It's a piece of paper...

Also, you said that they can't be found in a pile on the ground... I don't believe the pro-russian rebels that took pictures of the pile of passports on the ground found them like that (it would be really stupid for the billion dolar CIA propagandists to say: oh look, a pile of passports on the ground).
Again, the debree fell in a 15km wide area, they probably combed the zone and centralized everything where their commander was, that;s why pieces of luggage appear staked up in some photos... they went through the luggage to find passports and determine who was on board, they actually thought the plane could be carrying ukrainian spies or something. Doesn't this sound more plausible? Bring every piece of luggage found in the area to the commander and afterwards look for passports to see what plane this was that just crashed in your backyard and who was on it?

Thanks Zamolxe, I appreciate the logical, common sense approach you have taken in analyzing this event.

Sincerely, Pam

[Jake]

A thought just occurred to me... Please forgive me if it has already been hashed over... I'm going off of memory, so please be nice if I am of base here...

Wasn't the first Malaysian flight 370 diverted off course to the north and then the altitude lowered down from 56,000 feet to 33,000 feet, before it went missing for ever??? It makes me wonder if the diverting of Malaysian flight 17 off course to the north, then down from 56,000 feet to 33,000 feet,, was pulled off without a problem because they were able to make a test/practice run on a similar flight???

(I'm alluding to technology that can take over flight controls,,) And I'm wondering where the hell John McClain is!!!!!

Just food for thought..
Jake.

[bogeyman]

You know ever thought that all this could be a tactic to divert your attention from something much more sinister or important

[Hervé]

Posted by EYES WIDE OPEN (here)
[...]

Just found this video.

Please download now if you want

Smoke trails in sky or telephone wires? Any help? (ignore thumnail youtube freezefame - its a different video)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=4yFgLI7X97k

EYES WIDE OPEN, I think you blinked while following this thread and missed that page and post (<---)

... then, how could "bodies" fall out of the sky from that plane?

Edit:

Oooops! Apologies! I understood what you meant about the still frame from another video only when looking at your video...

That's a power line wire which doesn't connect to the smoke at the crash site.

[sigma6]

Posted by Pris (here)

Posted by Agape (here)

Posted by jackovesk (here)
Wrap your head around this MSM Story...
...........................
MH17 conspiracy theories: What happened to downed Malaysia Airlines plane?

The INFOWAR
It really is (US vs THEM) isn't it...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/t...racy-theories/

Hair rising challenge between the Washington Post and the Project Avalon forum, who has more news ...


It's US and THEM . Lets make peace ...


Eternal hmmmm

Peace is all we want people ..

Ughh. That article makes me feel ill. Here's another conspiracy theory for them: since we can always expect them to tell us fiction as fact, then one of the 'conspiracy theories' in this article may actually be what happened to MH17.

They like to hide the truth in plain sight, because apparently, we're all just a bunch of idiots, right?

As typical it is uses the classic Satanic mirror image opposite principle, the self assuming conspiracy theories are for the powerless, etc... Funny because the last study I heard reference showed that people who study conspiracies are more balanced and normal then the general population.

Couldn't get through the second paragraph, because is was so predictable, it was pointless reading...

I'm don't see someone like Steve Pieczenik or Alex Jones or "V" as exactly powerless. And what exactly is wrong if people exercise their logical thinking abilities? Sleuths or not... How does one become proficient in anything if they don't practice. Who is the pompous sycophant getting PAID to write that drivel?

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Just noticed that on the video of the passports beeing scatted that some of them are clipped or hole punched indicating that they are either expired or invalid for travel. Cant post the video for some reason. Can someone else post it please? If you watch you will see what I mean.

[Hervé]

Posted by EYES WIDE OPEN (here)
Just noticed that on the video of the passports beeing scatted that some of them are clipped or hole punched indicating that they are either expired or invalid for travel. Cant post the video for some reason. Can someone else post it please? If you watch you will see what I mean.

See post # 241 (<---)

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Cheers! Missed that. This thread moves fast.

[Cidersomerset]

You know ever thought that all this could be a tactic to divert your attention from something much more sinister or important

Exactly and several members have already made that point....


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





This article sums what many on alternate sites feel is happening
with the chaos continuing in the middle east since WW1 and
the proposed creation of an Israeli state by the Rothechild family
and the manipulation of various ideologies thru the 20th century,
where since 1990 and the collapse of Soviet Communism, the
Neo Con agenda backed by power full families and corporations
and possibly others behind the scenes, seems to be coming to
a head or at least escalating.

I remember David Icke saying when asked about 2012, he said
that nothing would happen , but thought the following few
years would see world upheaval. Well this could be the start.
Its hard to tell with 9/11, 7/7, Iraq Afghanistan etc. If this
is the big kick off or just more simmering chaos.



========================================


Russian Institute for Strategic Studies: NATO Is Attempting to ‘Revolutionize The Current World Order’

Tuesday 22nd July 2014 at 07:30 By david-icke





‘The July 9th paper warns that the United States and NATO are attempting to create a “new world order”
out of the Ukrainian situation that will impose totalitarian global laws and regulations. The basis of this
system, warns RISS, will be a “single system to issue money”. The authors state that because this
system will meet resistance, the threat of war needs to be maintained.

Ukraine, the authors write, is a testing ground for the establishment and its drive for world government.
As the IMF and the global elite take over Ukraine,

“It seems that in addition to specific operational objectives, setting a formal and informal foreign control
of key functions of the Ukrainian authorities may have the task of testing technologies… and disappearance
of the sovereignty of independent States.”’

Read more: Russian Institute for Strategic Studies: NATO Is Attempting to 'Revolutionize The Current World Order'



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------






The tense situation between Ukraine and the United States is outlined in a paper released earlier this month
by the Russian Institute for Strategic Studies (RISS). A week prior to the downing of Malaysian flight 17, the
institute warned that the west “refuses to adhere to the principles and norms of international law and the
rules and spirit of the existing system of international relations.”

Much like the United States Army War College Strategic Studies Institute, RISS provides “…information support
to the Administration of the President of the Russian Federation, the Federation Council, the State Duma and the
Security Council as well as to Government offices, ministries and departments”.

The July 9th paper warns that the United States and NATO are attempting to create a “new world order” out of
the Ukrainian situation that will impose totalitarian global laws and regulations. The basis of this system, warns
RISS, will be a “single system to issue money”. The authors state that because this system will meet resistance,
the threat of war needs to be maintained.




Ukraine, the authors write, is a testing ground for the establishment and its drive for world government. As the
IMF and the global elite take over Ukraine,


“It seems that in addition to specific operational objectives, setting a formal and informal foreign control of key
functions of the Ukrainian authorities may have the task of testing technologies… and disappearance of the
sovereignty of independent States.”

The fact that this information is coming from an obviously pro-Russian perspective does not detract from the
fact that this agenda has been well documented and observed for decades by researchers across the globe.

The recent incident involving flight MH17 has pushed the already tense situation with Ukraine closer to war.
Despite unclear evidence about who was responsible for shooting down the aircraft, the Obama administration
and others are still moving forward unblinkingly with a warpath agenda.

Award winning reporter Robert Parry recently stated that an inside source told him that satellite images show
Ukrainian troops shooting down MH17.

Concerns about false flag events are underpinned by declassified documents like Operation Northwoods which
sought to hijack and crash civilian aircraft. In 2006 it was revealed that Prime Minister Tony Blair and U.S.
President George Bush planned to paint a U2 spy plane in UN colors and fly it over Iraq with the hopes that
it would be shot down and spark a war.

http://www.infowars.com/russian-inst...t-world-order/

[SilentFeathers]

McCain actually says it doesn't matter or is necessarily "vital" to know who really pulled the trigger, that it really doesn't matter if it was a Russian who pulled the trigger or not, regardless it is Putin who is to be blamed....

I wonder if he himself actually understands or knows how idiotic he sounds? Then again, there are probably several mindless minds agreeing with him regardless.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Z3n8jRAnmRQ

[Cidersomerset]

McCain is an idiot!

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=iqKaU2fZkAc

[jerry]

BREAKING: Russian Proof Ukraine Staged Malaysian Jet To Start WW3

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ruyZWtvU6Tg

[Hervé]

10 more questions Russian military pose to Ukraine, US over MH17 crash
Published time: July 21, 2014 23:23
Edited time: July 22, 2014 13:56
Get short URL

Head of General Staff of the Armed Forces Lt. Gen. Andrey Kartopolov ( left) and chief of the Air Force Main Staff Lt. Gen. Igor Makushev ( right) at a media conference in Moscow, July 21 (RIA Novosti / Vadim Savitsky)

Russia has released military monitoring data, which shows Kiev military jets tracking the MH17 plane shortly before the crash - and posed yet another set of questions to Ukraine and the US over the circumstances of the tragedy.

Military officials – chief of General Staff of the Armed Forces Lt. Gen. Andrey Kartopolov and chief of the Air Force Main Staff Lt. Gen. Igor Makushev - posed a number of questions to Kiev and Washington concerning the possible causes of the catastrophe in Eastern Ukraine that killed almost 300 people last Thursday.

1. Why did the MH17 plane leave the international corridor?
“Please note that the plane stayed within the corridor until it reached Donetsk but then it deviated from the route to the north,” said Kartopolov.

2. Was MH17 leaving the route a navigation mistake or was the crew following instructions by Ukrainian air traffic controllers in Dnepropetrovsk?
“The maximum deviation from the left border of the corridor was 14 km. Following that, we can see the plane maneuvering to return to the corridor, yet the Malaysian crew did not get a chance to complete the maneuver. At 17.20, the plane began to lose speed, and at 17.23 it disappeared from Russian radars.”

3. Why was a large group of air defense systems deployed to the militia-held area if the self-defense forces have no planes?
“As far as we know, the Ukrainian military had three or four air defense battalions equipped with Buk-M1 SAM systems deployed in the vicinity of Donetsk on the day of the crash. This system is capable of hitting targets within the range of 35 km at the altitude of up to 22 km.”

Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014. (RIA Novosti)

4. Why did Kiev deploy BUK missile systems on the edge of militia-controlled zones directly before the tragedy?
“We have satellite photos of the places where Ukraine had its air defense units deployed in the southeastern parts of the country. The first three photos were made on July 14. The first photo shows Buk launchers 8 km northwest of Lugansk. You can clearly see a TELAR and two TELs. The second photo shows radars 5 km north of Donetsk. You can see two TARs along with other equipment and technical structures. The third photo shows air defense systems north of Donetsk. You can clearly see a TELAR launcher and about 60 military and auxiliary vehicles, tents for vehicles and other structures.

“Here’s a photo of the same area made on July 17. Please note that the launcher has disappeared. The fifth photo shows a battery of Buk missiles at the village of Zaroshchenskoye 50 km east of Donetsk and 8 km south of Shakhtyorsk on the morning of the same day. The sixth photo shows the same area on July 18. As you can see, the battery has left.”

No Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014. (RIA Novosti)

5. On the day of the crash Kiev intensified Kupol-M1 9S18 radar activity, key BUK system components. Why?
“Also, July 17 saw increased activity on the part of Ukraine’s Kupol-M1 9S18 radars, which are part of the Buk system. Here on this chart you see that there were seven radars operating on July 15, eight radars operating on July 16, and nine radars operating on July 17 in the area. Then, starting with July 18, the intensity of radar activities radically decreased, and now there are no more than two or three radars operating a day. The reason behind this is yet to be found.”

6. What was a military plane doing on the route intended for civilian flights?
“There were three civilian planes in the area performing their regular flights at this time. There was a flight from Copenhagen to Singapore at 17:17, there was a flight from Paris to Taipei at 17:24, and then there was the flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.”

“Also, Russian monitoring systems registered that there was a Ukrainian Air Force jet, probably Su-25, climbing and approaching the Malaysian Boeing.”

“The Su-25 was 3-5 km away from the Malaysian plane. Su-25 is capable of climbing to the altitude of 10,000 meters for a short period of time. Its standard armament includes R60 air-to-air missiles, which are capable of locking and hitting targets from 12 km and which are guaranteed to hit the target from the distance of 5 km.”

(RIA Novosti / Vadim Savitsky)

7. Why was the military jet flying at so close to a passenger plane?
“At 17:21’35, with [the Boeing’s] velocity having dropped to 200 kilometers per hour, a new mark detecting an airborne object appears at the spot of the Boeing’s destruction. This new airborne object was continuously detected for the duration of four minutes by the radar stations Ust-Donetsk and Buturinskaya. An air traffic controller requested the characteristics of the new airborne object, but was unable to get any readings on its parameters – most likely due to the fact that the new aircraft was not equipped with a secondary surveillance radar transponder, which is a distinctive feature of military aircraft,” said Makushev.

“Detecting the new aircraft became possible as it started to ascend. Further changes in the airborne object’s coordinates suggest that it was hovering above the Boeing 777’s crash site, monitoring of the situation.

“Ukrainian officials earlier claimed that there were no Ukrainian military aircraft in the area of the crash that day. As you can see, that is not true.”

8. Where did the launcher – from the video circulated by Western media and showing a Buk system being moved allegedly from Ukraine to Russia – come from? As the video was made on the territory controlled by Kiev, where was the launcher being transported?
“I’d like to say that the information we have presented here is based on objective and reliable data from various technical systems – unlike the groundless accusations made against Russia,” said Kartopolov.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=L4HJmev5xg0

“For example, media circulated a video supposedly showing a Buk system being moved from Ukraine to Russia. This is clearly a fabrication. This video was made in the town of Krasnoarmeisk, as evidenced by the billboard you see in the background, advertising a car dealership at 34 Dnepropetrovsk Street. Krasnoarmeysk has been controlled by the Ukrainian military since May 11.”

9. Where is it right now? Why are some of the missiles missing on the launcher? When was the last time a missile was launched from it?

Screenshot from video posted on Ukraine’s Ministry of Interior account, showing a Buk system supposedly being moved from Ukraine to Russia with two out of three missiles.

10. Why haven’t US officials revealed the evidence supporting claims that the MH17 was shot down by a missile launched by the militia?
“US officials claim they have satellite photographs proving the Malaysian airliner was shot down by a missile launched by the militia. But no one has seen these photographs so far. As far as we know, there was indeed a US satellite flying over southeastern Ukraine on July 17 from 17:06 to 17:21 Moscow time.

“This satellite is part of an experimental system designed to track and monitor the launches of missiles of various ranges. If our US colleagues have imagery from this satellite, they should release it for the international community to examine it in detail. This may be a coincidence, but the US satellite flew over Ukraine at exactly the same time when the Malaysian airliner crashed.”

Buk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry

This is not the first time Russia brings up questions on the plane crash. No explanations have followed with Kiev insisting they have full evidence of Russia being behind the attack, but so far only releasing tapes.

The USA, putting the blame on the self-defense forces, has yet refused to release any intelligence material. On Monday State Department Deputy Spokesperson Marie Harf described Russia’s statements as “propaganda and misinformation” - but when reporters asked her whether Washington would be releasing their intelligence and satellite data, Harf only replied "may be." So far the US has been backing its statements by social media and "common sense."

[SilentFeathers]

The establishment is getting a bit desperate IMO. Publically announcing that it really doesn't matter who pulled the trigger, that Putin is to be blamed regardless just because of whats going on in Ukraine/Crimea is very reckless and telling.

Russia demands evidence yesterday, and today McCain says it really doesn't matter who pulled the trigger, Putin is guilty!

I wonder how many people have really caught this? It's as if McCain is in some "subliminal" way exposing that it may of been a Ukraine fighter that shot it down, but that really doesn't matter....

[jackovesk]

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
McCain actually says it doesn't matter or is necessarily "vital" to know who really pulled the trigger, that it really doesn't matter if it was a Russian who pulled the trigger or not, regardless it is Putin who is to be blamed....

I wonder if he himself actually understands or knows how idiotic he sounds? Then again, there are probably several mindless minds agreeing with him regardless.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Z3n8jRAnmRQ

That 'Smug Look' won't look good at your trial John...

You think I'm kidding...

This man just committed Perjury, Malice & Treason at the same time...

I hope this won't be taken down by Youtube as it will be admissible in COURT...

[Hervé]

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
[...]
I wonder how many people have really caught this? It's as if McCain is in some "subliminal" way exposing that it may of been a Ukraine fighter that shot it down, but that really doesn't matter....

If their monitoring indicates that 80-85% are following the likes of McCain and MSM, then they won't give a hoot of what the remainder is clamoring since they got those 80-85% flowing their emotional energy -- planet wide -- in their direction; the one intended to empower them.

Remember?

It's all a battle for our (humanity's majority) minds!

It's time for the voice of real truth (not the "acceptable" truth they promote) to speak louder than theirs!

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by jackovesk (here)

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
McCain actually says it doesn't matter or is necessarily "vital" to know who really pulled the trigger, that it really doesn't matter if it was a Russian who pulled the trigger or not, regardless it is Putin who is to be blamed....

I wonder if he himself actually understands or knows how idiotic he sounds? Then again, there are probably several mindless minds agreeing with him regardless.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Z3n8jRAnmRQ

That 'Smug Look' won't look good at your trial John...

You think I'm kidding...

This man just committed Perjury, Malice & Treason at the same time...

I hope this won't be taken down by Youtube as it will be admissible in COURT...

But jackovest, don't you know McCain is immune from prosecution just like the rest of them are? If he steps out of line they will just promote him to defense secretary or Goldman sachs will hire him as a consultant or something...or he'll just plead the 5th for national security reasons and go on his merry little way continuing on with his war-mongering.

Or perhaps he'll retire and write a book about all the wonderful things he did.....

Quite sickening huh?

[Selene]

Airaspect, I certainly did not mean to belittle you as a person, and if you feel that was my intention please believe me that I did not intend to injure you, only to point out the logical flaws in your approach here. That’s entirely within the realm of fair discussion as I understand it. Nevertheless, my sincere apologies for any misunderstanding or hurt feelings..

Posted by airaspect
The person that makes a claim is supposed to put forward supporting data, not the guys that call it BS.

Unless I am greatly mistaken again, though, simply crying BS does not in fact exempt someone from providing their reasons for doing so. My comments on the substance of Dahboo’s claims are on record here, as are yours.

I don’t want to belabor this at the risk of derailing this thread even more, so if you’d like to discuss this further, I suggest we do it via PM?

All best,

Selene

[SilentFeathers]

Here we go, I'm sure British experts are trustworthy! This whole ordeal is about to get even MORE ridiculous.

British air accident investigators will examine the black boxes from downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, Prime Minister David Cameron has said.