Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

[araucaria]

The proximity in time/space of Putin’s plane has a precedent : a DC-9 that came down in 1980, possibly shot down in mistake for Gaddafi’s.

http://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/201...URGATORI/50612
machine translation of the section available to non-subscribers

Friday, July 18, 2014. Who shot the surface to air missile which brought down the Boeing 777 Malaysia Airlines in the sky of Donetsk in Ukraine, near the Russian border, killing 298 people? For now, the Ukrainian belligerents accuse each other. This is not the first time that a civilian passenger flights are victims of a military mistake. Thirty-four years after the fact, the crash of Ustica (a small island near Sicily) cleared away. Under Italian law, the DC-9 aircraft that exploded in midair in 1980 has been hit by a missile air-to-air, perhaps for the Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi. And footprints now lead to one suspect: France.

Air tragedy or military blunder?
The mysteries of Ustica crash

The new Italian Prime Minister, Mr. Matteo Renzi, has decided to open the archives of the 1970s and 1980s, two decades rich in violence and intrigue. Family eighty-one victims of the crash of Ustica killed without apparent motive, have been waiting for access to confidential documents. The leading suspects, France also decided to collaborate with Italian justice to unravel a mystery geopolitical dimensions.
by Andrea Purgatori, July 2014
survey

It is 20 hours 08, 27 June 1980, when the DC-9 company Itavia left Bologna with one hundred and thirteen minutes late. On board were four crew and seventy to seven passengers, including thirteen children. Once past the Apennines, he borrows the air corridor Ambra 13, which, flying over the Tyrrhenian Sea, Palermo leads to its final destination. Perfect visibility and routine communications. But at 20 h 59, the voice recording is meant to address the commander suddenly at second. This is actually a hint: "Gua ..." Maybe "Guarda! "(" Look! "). Nobody will know. Voice suddenly stops; radar signal disappears over the small island of Ustica, located sixty kilometers of Sicily. The DC-9 crashes into three pieces and plunged into the sea, three thousand seven hundred meters.

Then undertakes a poker game in which the cards are manipulated by governments, the military and intelligence services in four countries (Italy, France, the United States and Libya). A grueling part, to the shameful issue: hide the truth about the explosion in flight of an airliner and the death of his eighty-one passengers. This is the secret of what is called in Italy the "massacre of Ustica."

JPEG - 321.2 kb
Map Cécile Marin

In 2013, two judgments in civil liability of the Italian Court of Cassation attributed the explosion to a missile air-to-air, without identifying the nationality of the fighter who would have started. The Italian State was ordered to pay 100 million euros in compensation to victims' families for not properly defending its airspace. According to the judges, the missile was most likely intended to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi and his "fingerprints" have led to a single suspect: France.

Traces, clues, lies and weight control point in that direction. On 25 June 2007, three years before his death, the former (...)

Further details from Le Canard Enchaîné: there were11 military aircraft in the vicinity and the radar on USS Saratoga, in the Tyrrhenian Sea were deactivated. The French knew Gaddafi was in the area, and he was in trouble for destabilizing Chad, protected by France as a potential supplier of uranium. The Italian court established fighter aircraft movements in contradiction with the official French story. The head of the French secret service Alexandre de Marenches confided that Gaddafi needed to be neutralized and this was the duty of several governments.

[Hervé]

About the Ukrainian fighter jets:

Kiev says two Su-25 fighter jets shot down, accuses Russia

Published time: July 23, 2014 19:18
Get short URL

FILE Photo. Su-25 fighter plane (Reuters)

Two Ukrainian Su-25 fighter jets were shot down on Wednesday, the Ukrainian Security Council confirmed. Self-defense forces claim to be behind the attack, though Kiev believes anti-aircraft missiles could have been launched from Russia.

Follow RT's LIVE UPDATES on Kiev's military operation in E. UKraine

The two fighter jets were downed near the village of Dmitrovka, in eastern Ukraine's Donetsk region, according to the Ukrainian Security Council.

“We [are looking] into the possibility of the missile, which downed the planes, having been launched from the territory of Russia. That’s one of the theories,” a spokesman for the council, Andrey Lysenko, said.

The theory is based on an assumption by the Ukrainian military that anti-Kiev forces in Donetsk and Lugansk do not possess the type of military equipment needed for shooting down the Su-25s.

“Missiles launched from manpads don’t reach such altitudes,” Lysenko said. “The planes have been shot down at the height of 5,200 meters. Only more powerful missile launchers are capable of doing that...[The planes] were downed professionally, the terrorists don’t have such experts.”

Meanwhile, self-defense forces in Ukraine have claimed they downed the jets. In fact, it was they who first broke the news.

“Near Saur-Mogila, a Ukrainian fighter jet was shot down,” the minister of defense of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, Igor Strelkov, said, as quoted by Novorossiya website. “The pilot ejected himself. One more plane could have been damaged.”

The self-defense forces posted a video of one of the downed jets to YouTube.

RIA Novosti later received the confirmation from Aleksandr Boroday, prime minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic.

“Two Su-25 jets were downed near Dmitrovka,” he said.

A leader of the self-defense forces, who would only give his nickname “Cap,” also confirmed that two jets were downed.

“Both were downed by manpads,” the fighter told LifeNews. “One pilot ejected himself into the forest. We’ve found his parachute and are looking for the pilot himself.”

The militia claims it downed two more fighter jets on Tuesday.

“Yesterday self-defense forces downed two Su-25 jets, the so-called "Grach" ("Rook"). That happened in the sky over Lugansk region, near the towns of Zorinsk and Krasny Luch. There’s yet no information about pilots,” said Vladimir Inogorodtsev, spokesman for the self-proclaimed Lugansk People's Republic, as quoted by RIA Novosti.

The self-defense forces claim they shot the military aircraft down to prevent it from bombing residential areas.

[sdv]

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this debate. The amount of information on this thread is overwhelming, but, much is distracting chatter. However, we need to examine and engage with all information if we want to uncover the truth (actually, try to).

I am going to venture into the realm of unsubstantiated conspiracy theory ..,.

Is there a Malaysian connection to three events connected to airplanes and Malaysia? Who has infiltrated and is using Malaysian airlines/airspace, and why?

1. MH370 disappears and nothing has been found (despite a huge amount of time and money being spent, especially from Australia). The evidence that has been made public indicates that the plane abruptly (without any regular communication) changed path to head north/north-west and then disappeared. (Why assume it then headed southwards into the Indian Ocean?) Was it shot down by mistake and some government is covering its tracks and who is helping that government cover its tracks? Was it brought down by some kind of remote manipulation? Why has no wreckage been found? Was this a trial run that did not succeed but was useful as a learning experience?

Hypothesis:

There is a global elite that is immensely powerful as it has mind-blowing wealth and connections and the means to manipulate anything and everything. This global elite profits from war, wherever it happens, and so will actively try to invoke war wherever and however it can.


If MH370 had crashed in a territory north east of its flight path, a war could have been created, e.g. between north and south Korea, or any of the fragile territories in this area. (Point fingers, blame, push buttons, start a war.) The professional and courageous actions of the crew did not fulfill the expectations of this war-hungry global elite, and so where the airplane actually went down would not serve their interests (gosh, Australia has spent a lot of money and time chasing a red herring because the airplane did not come down where they are looking for it ... it did come down and crash into the sea, but not anywhere where anyone is looking for it, and it is unlikely that any evidence will be found of why and where this plane did crash into the sea).

2. MH-17 was bought down in an anarchic war zone where evidence would be compromised and in an area that is very vulnerable to being used as a flashpoint for a war that extends beyond regional interests. (Most commentators are unwittingly being used as pawns in the game.) Most media commentators have immediately assumed that Russia is to be blamed and must be punished (perfect for recreating and escalating the Cold War) and the media is really milking the awful reality of this disaster (so much focus on the bodies and numerous distractions by judging the actions of journalists). Officially everyone is blaming Russia but unofficially (and unnamed) whispers are that there is no evidence of Russian involvement but who knows what is the real truth and what is the manipulated truth?

3. Flight SA286, en route from Johannesburg to Hong Kong, hit severe and unusual turbulence when flying over Kuala Kanpur (sp ... eish!). (Malaysia). http://www.news24.com/Travel/Flights...-ever-20140716 ... A red herring/unexpected coincidence or part of a connection to something going on in Malaysia? The turbulence had severe effects and was very unusual, and happened when the plane was flying over Malaysia. A random, meaningless coincidence?

Wait and watch and be careful when flying, because if there is a global elite who are relentlessly pursuing warfare or some kind of corporate agenda for personal profit, airlines (especially in Malaysia) are being targeted.

Is it irrelevant coincidence that three incidences all have a Malaysian connection or is Malaysia being used (if there is a conspiracy, surely the manipulators will move on, or will they still use Malaysia and Malaysian airlines to create flashpoints that will create the profitable situation that serves their self interests to try to create a war that will serve the interest of the global elite) to gain profit from an invoked war?

Is the Malaysian connection a random coincidence or a clue? Will there be more airplane disasters connected to Malaysia or is there a controlling elite who will move onto other airlines and keep on manipulating and creating disasters (and trying out and perfecting and manipulating such disasters) until the outcome is that which serves their self enrichment?

So far, three major airline incidents with a Malaysian connection. Coincidence or intentional?

[Hervé]

Applying the new "conspiracy mathematics formula" to the following:

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
[...]
SOTT Comment: Yep, this is the same Kolomoisky behind the Odessa massacre. He also has strong ties to Israel, which stood to benefit from the MH17 disaster, timed to distract from the ground invasion of Gaza.
[...]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
Russian State Duma suggests investigating Kolomoisky's activities in connection with MH17 crash

Posted by Roisin (here)
Ihor Valeriyovych Kolomoyskyi born February 13, 1963) is an Ukrainian-Israeli business oligarch of Jewish descent. Kolomoysky has a dual Ukrainian-Israeli citizenship

Posted by sigma6 (here)
Evidence that this is a full blown multi billion dollar Zionist operation ...

From Malaysian 777 Shot Down Over Ukraine Updated (Gordon Duff's column on Veteran's Today):

With the “breaking” stories on the media about “purported/alleged” intercepted phone calls, I am making a call. ...

Israel did it.

Duff's column provides further details that implicate Israel.

I added the embolding of Kolomoisky, Zionist, and Israel, above.

... and introducing this new parameter:

Was MH17 Sabotaged By An Israeli Security Team At Amsterdam Schiphol Airport?
By Yoichi Shimatsu
Exclusive to Rense, 7-20-14

As the only non-European journalist to cover The Hague inquiry into the Amsterdam crash of El Al flight 1862 (October 1992), which destroyed a Biljmeer district apartment complex, I discovered many aspects of the Israeli security set-up at Schiphol International Airport and the role of the Mossad intelligence agency in secret operations there, one of Europe’s business transport hubs. This same airport spy network is very likely involved in the recent crash of Malaysian Airlines flight 17 over the Ukraine.

Covering the Biljmeer crash for Japan Playboy, I uncovered the sordid facts of how the official investigation back then was undone by a large network of Israeli intelligence agents who paid hush money to victims’ families, pressured injured firefighters from filing lawsuits over radiation exposure, and suppressed data from the hangar where the wreckage was stored. The crippled El Al cargo jet, leased from UPS, had transported from JFK Airport in New York a secret load of weapons including plutonium, depleted uranium and a bio-weapon called mycoplasma in its cargo bay before crashing on an attempt to return to Schiphol Airport, in an operation directed by the Israeli intelligence service instead of Dutch flight officials.

Once again, this time in the destruction of MH17, there is an Israeli-connected air crash with political ramifications involving Israeli strategic interests, inside Israel exactly when its military launches an invasion of Gaza and in troubled Ukraine, a supplier of military electronics to the IDF.

Security at Schipol Airport is operated by ICTS, an Israeli-owned airport security company based in The Netherlands founded by former officers of the Shin Beit intelligence agency. Its subsidiaries are also involved in key security functions there, including ProCheck, Ramasso and I-SEC.

The Israeli security company has a record of staging false flag operations, including the September 11, 2001 attacks. ICaTS subsidiary Huntleigh provided passenger and baggage inspection services at Boston Logan Airport, where two of the four jetliners used in the 911 attack originated.

At Schiphol Airport on Christmas 2009, ICTS allowed the “Underwear Bomber” Umar Farouk Abdulmutallah armed with explosives to slip past “sniffer” detectors to board a Detroit-bound Northwest flight, an incident that was a boon to Homeland Security and the global war on terrorism.

Initial information, even before the start of an official inquiry into MH17, raise serious questions of whether Israeli intelligence tampered with the flight controls and radar identification (transponder) system of the Malaysian-operated Boeing-777.

- MH17 deviated from the civilian flight path, which should cross close to the exit mouth of the Azov Sea, away from the current battle zone between the Ukraine military and militant ethnic Russian irregulars. Instead its navigation steered the jetliner on a more northerly course in contested airspace, where Ukraine military aircraft conduct both air strikes and troop transport missions, putting the Malaysian Airlines jet into jeopardy.

- The wide-body Boeing-777 jumbo jet is similar in profile to the Antonov (built by Kharkov Aircraft Industries in Ukraine) and Ilyushin (Russian-built) transport craft in service with the Ukraine military and air cargo fleets. At higher altitudes (MH17 was flying at 35,000 feet), the only way from ground level to identify a plane is by a coded radar response from its transponder signal. One possibility was that MH17 was programmed with a false responder code; while another problem could have been confusion with the transponder beam from a nearby Ukraine military craft. A more sinister scenario is the sending of a false ID signal from a ground-based vehicle.

In short, Israeli operatives could have loaded a bomb onto MH17 or used a false responder signal to lure a rebel missile battery to intercept a suspected incoming troop landing. Another issue for investigation, if these scenarios are verified, is the unspoken connection between the Boeing Corporation and the Israeli intelligence services. Boeing would have key data on tampering of any of its aircraft control systems, and both MH17 and MH370 were Boeing-777s.

Israeli intelligence had three possible motives for orchestrating a false flag incident blamed on ethnic Russians or on the Kremlin.

- first, the MH17 crash diverted international media attention from the launch of the Israeli invasion of Gaza, which is a serious rupture of existing peace accords and a massive assault on human rights. Malaysia is an outspoken voice in the UN and the world media on Palestinian rights in Gaza.

- second, Israel, even with the Zionist economic interests in Russia such as BP, has a historical interest in the 45 000-member strong Jewish community in the port of Odessa, which has a large stake in the financial sector, military electronics industry, missile production and weapons factories. PBN and GQR, lobbying organizations controlled by American Jewish neoconservatives, are the most influential force in Ukraine politics.

- third, the destruction of MH17 serves as a warning to the governments of Malaysia and Australia to cease any further investigation into the strong possibility that MH370 was hijacked by the Israeli military. MH370 was carrying engineers, designers, prototypes, specifications and a chip foundry for the world’s smallest microchip, the KL series. The leading edge technology is needed for Israel’s crash program to build a drone army, especially mini-robots capable of infiltrating Iran’s nuclear plants. (This writer has extensively researched a nd uncovered Israeli involvement in the MH370 hijacking at rense.com)

One point of bias that needs to be disclosed is that this writer is a sympathizer of Ukraine independence and opposes Russian intervention. In specific incidents, however, such as the destruction of MH17, one’s preferences must be set aside in pursuit of the facts relevant to the case. The Israeli role in this affair cannot be ignored, especially considering its abiding interests in independent Ukraine. Therefore, the Kiev government should launch an investigation into the possibility of sabotage by an ally so as not to harm its legitimacy by incriminating itself together with Israeli state-sponsored terrorism, legitimate grounds for reprisal by its adversary. A Ukraine that claims to be independent should try to be independent.

As an investigation team approaches the crash site, the real cover-up is yet to begin. The family members and friends of both targeted Malaysian Airlines jetliners are owed the truth and the culprits must be dragged to justice.

Yoichi Shimatsu is a science and technology journalist based in Hong Kong and former editor of The Japan Times Weekly in Tokyo.

****************************************************************

So... here are the pieces of the puzzle which might have MOSSAD as the designer:

• still no evidence MH017 was shot down by a missile whether surface-to-air or air-to-air
• MH017 broke up at high altitude raining plane pieces and stripped naked bodies all over the place within a 2Km radius of the crash site
• explosions heard before the crash one

Now let's apply that formula and start from the designer viewpoint:

• would such an agency leave it to a 60% success rate for a Buk missile that left no smoke trail and wouldn't have been able to breakup a 777 into pieces with its sling shots?
• same question with respect to SU jet fighters equipped for bombing civilians since they don't have any air defense opposition -- none -- from the anti fascist separatists? Although some bright fellow might have had some "intuition" to equip those jet fighters with air-to-air missiles for the occasion...
• How to ensure that a plane crash would happen at the right time in the right place to start endless finger pointing without ever mentioning the most probable culprit who's benefiting from all sides of such an international incident?

Well, the only plane that could be rigged for a 100% certain outcome was that ill fated MH017 and so orchestrated that it triggered the timing of the invasion of Gaza (not the reverse!). The Gaza invasion was timed to correspond to the crashing of MH017, B-777 9M-MRD over a war zone and designed to spread pieces of the evidence all over said war zone to make it impossible for any serious investigation to occur....


... accordingly, those pieces of shrapnel and their provenance is of the utmost importance:


Where were they coming from?

Outside?


or


Inside?

[Operator]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
Applying the new "conspiracy mathematics formula" to the following:

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
[...]
SOTT Comment: Yep, this is the same Kolomoisky behind the Odessa massacre. He also has strong ties to Israel, which stood to benefit from the MH17 disaster, timed to distract from the ground invasion of Gaza.
[...]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
Russian State Duma suggests investigating Kolomoisky's activities in connection with MH17 crash

Posted by Roisin (here)
Ihor Valeriyovych Kolomoyskyi born February 13, 1963) is an Ukrainian-Israeli business oligarch of Jewish descent. Kolomoysky has a dual Ukrainian-Israeli citizenship

Posted by sigma6 (here)
Evidence that this is a full blown multi billion dollar Zionist operation ...

From Malaysian 777 Shot Down Over Ukraine Updated (Gordon Duff's column on Veteran's Today):

With the “breaking” stories on the media about “purported/alleged” intercepted phone calls, I am making a call. ...

Israel did it.

Duff's column provides further details that implicate Israel.

I added the embolding of Kolomoisky, Zionist, and Israel, above.

... and introducing this new parameter:

Was MH17 Sabotaged By An Israeli Security Team At Amsterdam Schiphol Airport?
By Yoichi Shimatsu
Exclusive to Rense, 7-20-14

As the only non-European journalist to cover The Hague inquiry into the Amsterdam crash of El Al flight 1862 (October 1992), which destroyed a Biljmeer district apartment complex, I discovered many aspects of the Israeli security set-up at Schiphol International Airport and the role of the Mossad intelligence agency in secret operations there, one of Europe’s business transport hubs. This same airport spy network is very likely involved in the recent crash of Malaysian Airlines flight 17 over the Ukraine.

Covering the Biljmeer crash for Japan Playboy, I uncovered the sordid facts of how the official investigation back then was undone by a large network of Israeli intelligence agents who paid hush money to victims’ families, pressured injured firefighters from filing lawsuits over radiation exposure, and suppressed data from the hangar where the wreckage was stored. The crippled El Al cargo jet, leased from UPS, had transported from JFK Airport in New York a secret load of weapons including plutonium, depleted uranium and a bio-weapon called mycoplasma in its cargo bay before crashing on an attempt to return to Schiphol Airport, in an operation directed by the Israeli intelligence service instead of Dutch flight officials.

Once again, this time in the destruction of MH17, there is an Israeli-connected air crash with political ramifications involving Israeli strategic interests, inside Israel exactly when its military launches an invasion of Gaza and in troubled Ukraine, a supplier of military electronics to the IDF.

Security at Schipol Airport is operated by ICTS, an Israeli-owned airport security company based in The Netherlands founded by former officers of the Shin Beit intelligence agency. Its subsidiaries are also involved in key security functions there, including ProCheck, Ramasso and I-SEC.

The Israeli security company has a record of staging false flag operations, including the September 11, 2001 attacks. ICaTS subsidiary Huntleigh provided passenger and baggage inspection services at Boston Logan Airport, where two of the four jetliners used in the 911 attack originated.

At Schiphol Airport on Christmas 2009, ICTS allowed the “Underwear Bomber” Umar Farouk Abdulmutallah armed with explosives to slip past “sniffer” detectors to board a Detroit-bound Northwest flight, an incident that was a boon to Homeland Security and the global war on terrorism.

Initial information, even before the start of an official inquiry into MH17, raise serious questions of whether Israeli intelligence tampered with the flight controls and radar identification (transponder) system of the Malaysian-operated Boeing-777.

- MH17 deviated from the civilian flight path, which should cross close to the exit mouth of the Azov Sea, away from the current battle zone between the Ukraine military and militant ethnic Russian irregulars. Instead its navigation steered the jetliner on a more northerly course in contested airspace, where Ukraine military aircraft conduct both air strikes and troop transport missions, putting the Malaysian Airlines jet into jeopardy.

- The wide-body Boeing-777 jumbo jet is similar in profile to the Antonov (built by Kharkov Aircraft Industries in Ukraine) and Ilyushin (Russian-built) transport craft in service with the Ukraine military and air cargo fleets. At higher altitudes (MH17 was flying at 35,000 feet), the only way from ground level to identify a plane is by a coded radar response from its transponder signal. One possibility was that MH17 was programmed with a false responder code; while another problem could have been confusion with the transponder beam from a nearby Ukraine military craft. A more sinister scenario is the sending of a false ID signal from a ground-based vehicle.

In short, Israeli operatives could have loaded a bomb onto MH17 or used a false responder signal to lure a rebel missile battery to intercept a suspected incoming troop landing. Another issue for investigation, if these scenarios are verified, is the unspoken connection between the Boeing Corporation and the Israeli intelligence services. Boeing would have key data on tampering of any of its aircraft control systems, and both MH17 and MH370 were Boeing-777s.

Israeli intelligence had three possible motives for orchestrating a false flag incident blamed on ethnic Russians or on the Kremlin.

- first, the MH17 crash diverted international media attention from the launch of the Israeli invasion of Gaza, which is a serious rupture of existing peace accords and a massive assault on human rights. Malaysia is an outspoken voice in the UN and the world media on Palestinian rights in Gaza.

- second, Israel, even with the Zionist economic interests in Russia such as BP, has a historical interest in the 45 000-member strong Jewish community in the port of Odessa, which has a large stake in the financial sector, military electronics industry, missile production and weapons factories. PBN and GQR, lobbying organizations controlled by American Jewish neoconservatives, are the most influential force in Ukraine politics.

- third, the destruction of MH17 serves as a warning to the governments of Malaysia and Australia to cease any further investigation into the strong possibility that MH370 was hijacked by the Israeli military. MH370 was carrying engineers, designers, prototypes, specifications and a chip foundry for the world’s smallest microchip, the KL series. The leading edge technology is needed for Israel’s crash program to build a drone army, especially mini-robots capable of infiltrating Iran’s nuclear plants. (This writer has extensively researched a nd uncovered Israeli involvement in the MH370 hijacking at rense.com)

One point of bias that needs to be disclosed is that this writer is a sympathizer of Ukraine independence and opposes Russian intervention. In specific incidents, however, such as the destruction of MH17, one’s preferences must be set aside in pursuit of the facts relevant to the case. The Israeli role in this affair cannot be ignored, especially considering its abiding interests in independent Ukraine. Therefore, the Kiev government should launch an investigation into the possibility of sabotage by an ally so as not to harm its legitimacy by incriminating itself together with Israeli state-sponsored terrorism, legitimate grounds for reprisal by its adversary. A Ukraine that claims to be independent should try to be independent.

As an investigation team approaches the crash site, the real cover-up is yet to begin. The family members and friends of both targeted Malaysian Airlines jetliners are owed the truth and the culprits must be dragged to justice.

Yoichi Shimatsu is a science and technology journalist based in Hong Kong and former editor of The Japan Times Weekly in Tokyo.

****************************************************************

So... here are the pieces of the puzzle which might have MOSSAD as the designer:

• still no evidence MH017 was shot down by a missile whether surface-to-air or air-to-air
• MH017 broke up at high altitude raining plane pieces and stripped naked bodies all over the place within a 2Km radius of the crash site
• explosions heard before the crash one

Now let's apply that formula and start from the designer viewpoint:

• would such an agency leave it to a 60% success rate for a Buk missile that left no smoke trail and wouldn't have been able to breakup a 777 into pieces with its sling shots?
• same question with respect to SU jet fighters equipped for bombing civilians since they don't have any air defense opposition -- none -- from the anti fascist separatists? Although some bright fellow might have had some "intuition" to equip those jet fighters with air-to-air missiles for the occasion...
• How to ensure that a plane crash would happen at the right time in the right place to start endless finger pointing without ever mentioning the most probable culprit who's benefiting from all sides of such an international incident?

Well, the only plane that could be rigged for a 100% certain outcome was that ill fated MH370 and so orchestrated that it triggered the timing of the invasion of Gaza (not the reverse!). The Gaza invasion was timed to correspond to the crashing of MH017, B-777 9M-MRD over a war zone and designed to spread pieces of the evidence all over said war zone to make it impossible for any serious investigation to occur....


... accordingly, those pieces of shrapnel and their provenance is of the utmost importance:


Where were they coming from?

Outside?


or


Inside?

That's why I said almost in the beginning of the thread ... do not immediately assume it is shot down.
There are other options to consider too. It may have you look in the wrong direction and then you
will never find the correct answers.

I also referred to the Bijlmerramp a couple of times. The wikipedia page that I linked mentions that a
parliamentary inquiry was held a couple of years later because the case was shrouded in secrecy.
The parliamentary commission was inexperienced and touched on anomalies but never got to the bottom of it.
One of the findings was that El Al has more or less its own 'kingdom' on Schiphol and can do
whatever they like there. Anyway, the wikipedia page doesn't mention it and everybody seems to
have forgotten about it. But I haven't ... I've known guys in suits and know what they are able to
accomplish. I've been on a plane from Schiphol to Ben Hurion and back with electronics that shouldn't
be on that flight. But it's all 'OK' because Dutch officials benefited from this and we're above the law
anyway ... we are the good guys right?

Also be reminded that the underwear bomber was put on the plane without passport by a guy in a suit.
Yeah, I know that that's very well possible. You think I needed a passport on my trip? Nope, and I was
not even a state official ... just working for a contractor.

Well there you have it ... said too much probably but otherwise this **** never ends.
Good that the Netherlands have the lead in the investigation. But instead of nagging about not being
able to access the Ukraine they could have started investigation a week ago ... on their own airport.

[Daphne]

I wish I spoke Russian. President Putin looks very serious. Anyone have translation capabilities?

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=vMbiZmzLQzo

[Agape]

Posted by Daphne (here)
I wish I spoke Russian. President Putin looks very serious. Anyone have translation capabilities?

About the following .. reiterating their official stand towards the tragical events in the skies above Donetsk and that they've called both and all of the sides of conflict in Ukraine to discussion , and if they did it could be safely said the event would never happen . That no one has the right to use the tragedy to achieve their selfish political aims and that there are people working on the crash site , the Ukrainian and Malaysian team and the ICOS but fully international team should be allowed to investigate ,
and effort made to resolve the war like situation in eastern Ukraine by peaceful diplomatic means .

[jackovesk]

Posted by jackovesk (here)

Posted by jackovesk (here)
"WATCH-OUT" for this Man..!!!

Arseniy Yatsenyuk economist and lawyer who is the interim Prime Minister of Ukraine..!

The 'Puppet' Speaks...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=xy1wrA40Uuc

PS - IMHO this man epitomizes 'Cowardess' and has a "Massive Yellow-Streak' running throughout his Soul..!!!

Complicit to say the least..!!!







PSS - Watch out for that Bus Arseniy...

Not long to go know Arseniy...

I must say, it wasn't a pleasant experience getting to know you but when your looking (UP) from your deathly hollows after your demise...Don't say you didn't see it coming..!!!

In life taking 'Major Risks' like that due to your sheer ((Arrogance & GREED)) was a game many have tried and failed and paid the ultimate price succumbing to their 'Puppet-Masters'...

Adios Amigo...

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
Now this is an amazing development!

Ukrainian Prime Minister Yatsenyuk resigning

Yatsenyuk made the announcement from the dais of the parliament after two parties said they would pull out of the governing coalition. "I am announcing my resignation in connect with the collapse of the coalition," Yatsenyuk said.

HUGE DEVELOPMENT!!!!!!!!

PSSS - Watch this space, there is much more to this Story than meets the EyE...

[SilentFeathers]

I feel something even bigger coming/about to happen jackovest, like we haven't seen enough in the last week! sheesh, what a mess.

[jackovesk]

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
I feel something even bigger coming/about to happen jackovest, like we haven't seen enough in the last week! sheesh, what a mess.

I agree, unfortunately there is nothing surer...

((Way Out there Theory)), but a number of synchronicities in line with the current Geo-Political climate that will indeed make you think about the (BIG-PICTURE)...

........................................

New Crop Circle In the UK Shows the Antichrist Coming, Locusts Being Released, WW3, Illuminati, and Freemason Symbolism!

July 22, 2014

Clear images in a brand new crop circle that was found on July 22, 2014 reveals all sorts of end times symbolism, including the coming of the Antichrist, the Destroyer, the release of the locusts, and World War 3. It is also laced with Illuminati/Freemason symbolism! Check out the below video as the gentleman shows you and explains it.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=fQAaoDJHMm4

[sigma6]

I wish I spoke Russian. President Putin looks very serious. Anyone have translation capabilities?

Yes I do... I go to the captions function and set it to English... :D

[sigma6]

Posted by spizella (here)
Just underlining:

‘Unnamed US officials are telling Associated Press that their intelligence suggests Malaysia
plane shot down by anti-Kiev militia, no link to Russia found.

Officials believe that the passenger aircraft was intercepted by an SA-11 surface-to-air missile,
which was fired by Ukrainian militia members. One official said the likeliest explanation was the
aircraft was shot down in error, an assertion that seem to be bolstered by the previous downing
of 12 Ukrainian military aircraft by militants in the region.

Intelligence suggests that, although the US maintains that Russia “created the conditions” that
led to the incident, officials were not aware of the presence of any Russians during the missile
launch, and would not confirm that the missile crew was trained in Russia.’

This reminds me of socialist car insurance... It's nobodies fault... everyone is taking their jabs, anyone not participating is getting screwed over,
and at the end of the day, the bodies have already been returned to their frozen food lockers, and the US is still using their
Satanic marketing strategy, quick... what is the Satanic opposite of "Russia created the conditions" ?

I still think Pieczenik is right on the money, this is like Murder on the Orient Express...

This is a symptom of many leaders fearing for their jobs, not just one... the masses are ever so closer to waking up...
Someone outside the government has to break free and rise up...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=roR3sSunqpo

[sigma6]

Jeff Rense & Texe Marrs - Fighting The Zionist Monster

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=u7uWwZu2tas

[KiwiElf]

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
I feel something even bigger coming/about to happen jackovest, like we haven't seen enough in the last week! sheesh, what a mess.

One of the next "incidents" on the Cabal agenda is a nuclear device(s) detonated in a major US city and then blame the __________ terrorists (fill in the blank) - undoubtedly a bigger "incident" than 9-11 and will probably include some sort of financial crash to go.

[Cidersomerset]

I feel something even bigger coming/about to happen jackovest, like we haven't seen enough in the last week! sheesh, what a mess.

Like all crisis in history the military men , after all without conflict, paranoia and the
fear of war they would not have a job , on all sides. So they won't take much
nudging by 'Hawks' from East or west.......Part of me wonders if this an attempt by
the mil ind complex to restart a sort of cold war, where lots of money was diverted
back to arms escalation and the elites get even more Richer and power full.

Or this is the escalating of the predictions and acting out the Battle of Armegeddon
(Revelation 16 verse 14 - Armageddon) on the plains of Meggido


Israel has the Nukes , they are provoking the Arabs in Gaza , ISIS could have
been formed to unite the Arabs. As Saladin did against the Crusaders and
defeated the over confident Templar knights at the Battle of Hattin.






As the Abba song goes 'History is always repeating itself " and if you study
history to any degree, it only takes a couple of generations , if that in many
cases and the same old feuds , grudges and disagreements end in conflict.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------






NATO Poland base may be prepared for blitz against Russia

new Friday 25th July 2014 at 07:10 By david-icke


‘NATO’s Europe commander advocates stockpiling a base in Poland with enough
weapons, ammunition and other supplies to support a rapid deployment of
thousands of troops against Russia, British media reported.

General Philip Breedlove’s idea would be presented to members of the alliance at
the upcoming NATO summit in Wales in September, according to The Times.

The general told a briefing in Naples this week that NATO needed “pre-positioned
supplies, pre-positioned capabilities and a basing area ready to rapidly accept
follow-on forces.”’






Several locations for the future stockpile are planned, with the Multinational Corps
Northeast, a base in Szczecin near the Polish-German border being the leading
contender.

“It would be a 24/7 fully functioning headquarters that forces could quickly fall in
on to respond rapidly when needed,” the British newspaper cites a source familiar
with the expected proposition as saying.

Breedlove has been advocating a build-up of NATO assets in Europe, particularly
Eastern Europe, in the wake of the Ukrainian crisis in the secession of Ukraine’s
Crimea to Russia. The alliance has already strengthened its presence in the Baltic
Sea and the Black Sea and deployed additional military aircraft in Eastern Europe.
It said the moves were needed to boost the confidence of eastern NATO members
in the alliance’s ability to protect them from Russian aggression.


Polish 6 Airborne Brigade soldiers check their weapons as they participate in
training exercises with paratroopers from the U.S. Army's 173rd Infantry Brigade
Combat Team at the Land Forces Training Centre in Oleszno near Drawsko
Pomorskie, north west Poland May 1, 2014 (Reuters / Kacper Pempel





The stockpiling of supplies is just a step short of a permanent massive deployment
of foreign NATO troops in Poland. The alliance says it is needed for a rapid response
to a Russian incursion, although Russian generals would probably view this as a
possible preparation for a blitzkrieg attack on Russia.

Moscow considers the build-up of NATO troops in Europe as part of a hostile policy
aimed at placing the alliance’s military resources closer to its borders. Russia’s
current military doctrine allows the use of all weapons in its possession, including
tactical nuclear weapons, in response to a conventional force attack on Russia.


Read more: NATO Poland base may be prepared for blitz against Russia

http://rt.com/news/175292-nato-poland-supply-base/

[Cidersomerset]

Russian ministry of Defence minister asks......

Why has the US not presented any official evidence ?

Because they are still cooking it up !!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Russian Defense Min on MH17: Most US evidence based on social media posts

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=TRTxKVdV4Jo

Published on 24 Jul 2014


Russia has so far been the only nation to release evidence related to the MH17 crash,
the Defense Ministry said, urging other countries to follow suit - READ MORE http://on.rt.com/9pzy1k

[Cidersomerset]

Is the US and world press , so dumb as to keep listening to this crap.......

She may only be the mouth piece , but this is taking the p--- out of every one.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

State Dept. accuses Russia of firing artillery into Ukraine, refuses to provide any evidence

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=OEuviNg2UCg

Published on 24 Jul 2014


During a press briefing Thursday, State Department Deputy Spokesperson Marie Harf accused Russia of firing
artillery across the border into Ukraine, but refused to give any evidence supporting her claim. When Associated
Press reporter Matt Lee attempted to follow up by asking if this information was based on a YouTube video,
Harf brushed off his question and then said “I just said I wasn’t going to give you the underlying source for
it.” A bitter back-and-forth then followed.

Find RT America in your area: http://rt.com/where-to-watch/
Or watch us online: http://rt.com/on-air/rt-america-air/

[Cidersomerset]

This has echos of the Cold War ....Western controlled media following the pied piper.

Not looking for the real truth , this is how the communist political organs ran,
and probably the west as well thru the ever limited sources of Associated News.
or Rueters outlets. RT is state funded like the BBC , and may have a Russian bias,
but they are running rings round the western mainstream on many topics.

The reason msn is looking more and more blatently manipulated is the amount
of 'people journalists' talking to each other from all over the world and realising
we are all the same 'wonderfull human creators' being manipulated by one
faction or another. We are at the most pivotal times of 'Truth' or ' Censorship'
imo....

The web has brought freedoms to the ordinary people as shown in
the middle east spring uprisings a couple of years ago. But it is also a potential
source of spying and surveillance as Edward Snowden and others have pointed out.


===================================================

Cold Warmongering: Putin vilified by MSM magazines & newspapers

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Cdi07qkHgrc

Published on 24 Jul 2014


Kiev says the Malaysian airliner didn't veer off course before going down - contradicting
evidence provided by the Russian Defence Ministry. Meanwhile amid conflicting claims
and a lack of clear proof, the media are stirring up talk of a new Cold War, jumping at
any opportunity to point the finger.

[Hervé]

Posted by Cidersomerset (here)
[...]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Russian Defense Min on MH17: Most US evidence based on social media posts

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=TRTxKVdV4Jo

Published on 24 Jul 2014
[...]
READ MORE http://on.rt.com/9pzy1k

There is the clue to the whole thing being a social engineering psy-op/propaganda campaign: MSM/US don't rely on evidence but on what is seen to have caught on like wildfire on the social media circuits.

In other words they fuel the fires or push on the wheels that "went viral" (after having seeded it).

And, in doing so, get to their 80-85% "support" for their "acceptable lies."

On the other hand, the 15-20% that are dissenters, non-conformists, free-thinkers, etc. are also being "culled" in that "social media" soup.

[Cidersomerset]

This is typical of the so called western free press view on Putin.

Its the tone that has been set that assumes Russia is guilty by
association with sympathies with the large ethnic Russian
populations scattered around the Ukraine , with large concentrations
in the east. They still present the innuendo that as arms may be
smuggled over the border, some probably are ,then Kiev is the innocent
party...etc etc

They do mention the fact Russia denounces the US/ Kiev allegations
at the bottom of the article, more of an afterthought than a vital
debating point. As if to show if challenged that it is mentioned by them...


============================================



23 July 2014 Last updated at 00:16

Will MH17 air crash damage Russia's Putin?Latest

By Dmitri Trenin

Director, Carnegie Moscow Centre, Moscow

Russia President Vladimir Putin in Shanghai




Russia has been accused of providing military help to the rebels to shoot down the
Malaysia Airlines plane

Right up until the downing of flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine on 17 July,
President Vladimir Putin's handling of the Ukraine crisis was seen in Russia as fairly
successful, both strategically and tactically.

Russia was obviously supporting the militants in the Donbass region, while still
pursuing a policy of plausible deniability. At the same time, it had joined Germany
and France in a diplomatic effort to promote a political settlement within Ukraine
that would also take Russia's interests into account.

The European Union was balking at further sanctions against the Russian
government, with a number of countries resolved to protect their important
economic relations. The Obama Administration's attempts to rally the Europeans
around the sanctions agenda appeared largely ineffectual.




Russia President Vladimir Putin and China President Xi Jinping at a signing
ceremony for landmark gas deal Russia and China signed a landmark gas deal in
May 2014, boosting relations between the two countries

Mr Putin was, by contrast, expanding Russia's relations with China, gaining a
measure of moral support from the other Brics countries (Brazil, India, China and
South Africa), and rekindling old and striking new friendships in Latin America.

The MH17 tragedy abruptly changed all that.

The United States and several of its closest allies have immediately accused Russia
of aiding and abetting, if not actually perpetrating, a heinous crime.

Mainstream Western media are already calling for Russia to be treated as a pariah
state. As a majority of the victims were from the Netherlands, relations with Europe
are particularly likely to suffer.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=tG8q3UdkotI

UK PM David Cameron sees the crash as a "defining moment" for Russia

The gap between the US and EU approaches to sanctions on Russia is about to
become narrower, destroying Moscow's hopes of a serious divergence within the West.

In Asia, where Russia is now "pivoting" to, the shooting down of the Malaysian
passenger plane may also give rise to anti-Russian sentiment. Mr Putin recently
signed a 30-year gas deal with China.

Elsewhere in the non-Western world, which still relies to a significant degree on the
Western media for covering world developments, the reputations of both Russia
and President Putin will take a big hit.

Malaysia Airlines MH17 crash site in Eastern Ukraine



President Putin publicly backs an international inquiry into the MH17 disaster
Some in Russia may see the dramatic worsening of relations with the West over
Ukraine as being driven by an undeclared US policy of containing Russia, but few
welcome it.

While most Russians sympathise with the plight of the people of eastern Ukraine,
around two-thirds are against a military invasion of Ukraine.

With Mr Putin's popularity still topping 80%, he has been widely credited so far with
pursuing the right course: protecting Russia's interests, while avoiding unacceptable risks.

"Returning Crimea to Russia", especially without a shot being fired, was seen as the
nearest thing to a miracle

Vowing to defend ethnic Russians and Russian-speakers in southern and eastern
Ukraine against the new authorities in Kiev won the president more acclaim
Pro-Russia separatist stands at the crash site of downed Malaysia Airlines plane.



MH17 Moscow has been accused of smuggling heavy weaponry to separatist rebels,
a claim Russia denies

The MH17 air disaster, however, raises questions.

Russians, by and large, have long assumed that Moscow is giving the self-declared
people's republics of Donetsk and Luhansk more than moral and political support.

At the same time, they hear from their own leaders that Russia does not control
those whom it publicly backs. For a while, they may have accepted this apparent
incoherence as a diplomatic ruse.

If the international investigation, however, establishes that Russia has indeed given
the Donbass militants powerful weapons which they used to shoot down - by
mistake - a passenger plane, part of the Russian public, not necessarily pro-
Western or liberal, will see the Kremlin's approach as irresponsible brinkmanship.




map
Sensing this danger, Vladimir Putin is pushing back hard against the US-backed
version of the crash.

Russian general staff officials are presenting their own evidence and are asking
questions about the Ukrainian role in the crash

The Russian president himself is talking to Western and Malaysian leaders and
publicly supports an international inquiry

At the United Nations, the Russian ambassador has supported a relevant resolution
With the plane's black boxes found by the rebels and handed over to the
international investigators, the inquiry is now starting in earnest

The stakes are very high.

If the investigators' verdict does eventually fall against Russia it is not so much
Vladimir Putin's integrity that will suffer, as respect for his strategic skill. He has,
after all, never said that the rebels had nothing to do with the disaster; instead he
blamed Ukraine for attacking them.

Mr Putin will survive politically, but will have to work hard to restore faith in him,
and his good fortune.

Russia may, however, avoid the blame. And if it does, then the onus for the crime,
and the responsibility, will be on others. And Vladimir Putin will have dodged that
bullet, too.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28421196