Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

[Operator]

Here are some extensive articles that suggest that mh17 was shot down by a 30 mm canon which is fitted on the SU-25's.

http://www.ninefornews.nl/maleisisch...e-straaljager/

http://www.presseportal.de/pm/59019/...e-abgeschossen

http://www.anderweltonline.com/wisse...aysian-mh-017/

The first is in Dutch (summary of the 2 German articles) and last 2 in German.

Please use Google translate to get the articles in your own language. They are too extensive for me
to translate and correct them. Especially the 2 German articles seem to be by experts of a
non-involved country.

[linksplatinum]

http://iamamalaysian.wordpress.com/2...nother-flight/

July 29, 2014
… report by DAHBOO7, published on July 28, 2014

Noted:
* Flight MH17 – What You’re Not Being Told
* Neil Keenan Update | The Last Line of Defense
Busted! The cabal’s “By way of deception thou shalt do war” exposed yet again! Do you still believe everything the mainstream media reports?

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=XFzM6yE3qqc

Source: DAHBOO7 … http://www.undergroundworldnews.com

The evidence is now even stronger! We have a 2nd photo that shows that the plane boarded was MRC, Not MRD!

The flight MRC should have NEVER been there to begin with, according to flight logs!

It also exposes the fact that Reuters had an agent on the ground snapping the ‘Last Shots’ of MH17!

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/…
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-21…
https://www.facebook.com/search/more/…

Here’s the “Three Plane Ghosts” video (published on July 27) referred to above …

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=qAnGC82K-vU

US administration caught lieing through its teeth to try start WW3

And … MH17 Shot DOWN over UKRAINE is MISSING MALAYSIAN Flight 370?
Woh, the tragic false flag event is getting stranger as more information surface!

UPDATED!
* Breaking: Russian Satellite Imagery on MH17 (Black Box and New Evidence) … Black Box Proves Missile Didn’t Do It - Gordon Duff, Veterans Today

Noted:
* CrossTalk: MH17 Spin
* ‘Fake': Russian Defence Min rebuffs US sat image claims
* Breaking: Russian Satellite Imagery on MH17 … White House Has 24 Hours to Disprove
* WTF Is The Son Of The Former Israel Minster of Defense Doing Taking A Picture Of MH17, At The Same Place/Time As Passenger Cor Pan’s Final Shot?

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=dteO0aZTZf4

[sigma6]

Are we still allowed to post MH-17 updates here????

http://www.infowars.com/on-malaysian...disintegrates/

More support for the "Pieczenik Theory"

Popcorn! Peanuts! Candys! Smokes! Popcorn! Peanuts! Candys! Smokes! Step right up folks get 'em right here!

Tuesday the US government admitted it had been bluffing about its certainty that Russia was behind the downing of Malaysian Air Flight MH-17 over Ukraine.

This dramatic turn of events started with State Department Spokeswoman Marie Harf [as in harf harf! harf!] claiming Monday that the State Department’s certainty of Russian involvement in the apparent downing of the plane was primarily based on “social media” evidence.

That means with a likely budget of more than $100 billion, the US Intelligence Community is making decisions that may involve global nuclear war based on people’s Tweets and YouTubes!


Asked in Monday’s State Department briefing about US government evidence for its claims of Russian government involvement and separatist direct blame for the shooting down of the plane, Harf said:

You saw the Secretary yesterday speak very clearly about our assessment that this was an SA-11 fired from Russian-backed, separatist-controlled territory; that we know – we saw in social media afterwards, we saw videos, we saw photos of the pro-Russian separatists bragging about shooting down an aircraft.
She added:

Based on open information which is basically common sense, right – we know where it was fired from, we know who has this weapon

[ParakeetMGP]

Why can't anyone get into the "Science" anymore? I am tired of "Politics" I don't understand and can't read it. I just know that MH17 did not come to be this mess, because you had MH370! and everyone is into "Politics" about it, then realizing how "Delusional" this is. I'm waiting only to find out "Who Wakes Up"?

[Cidersomerset]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=HS0XEQMajgA

Published on 29 Jul 2014


WATCH: President Obama delivers remarks on situation in Ukraine 7/29/2014.
Obama Increases Sanctions Against Russia: This ‘Is Not a New Cold War’
President Obama: "The main tool that we have to influence Russian behavior ...
is the impact [sanctions are] having on its economy"
President Obama says US will continue to suppose people of Ukraine video



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Short vid on link....http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/...grey_alpha.png

Ukraine conflict: Obama announces new Russia sanctions42 minutes ago

Sanctions will increase on Russia if it continues its current stance towards Ukraine, Barack Obama has said.

The US president warned Russia that it would become more isolated financially and
diplomatically if it did not support a peaceful resolution to the crisis in eastern Ukraine.

Moscow denies charges by the EU and US that it is supplying heavy weapons to the rebels.

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/...grey_alpha.png

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=vhXGyhXGWGU

Ukraine crisis: Intense government and rebel clashes5 hours ago

For a third day, international air accident investigators have had to abandon plans to visit the
crash site of the Malaysian airliner in eastern Ukraine because of fighting.

Intense clashes between Ukrainian troops and pro-Russian rebels in the region have killed a
number of civilians, according to local officials. Government forces are pushing rebel units
back towards their urban strongholds.

The Ukrainian Security and Defence Council says they've entered the towns of Shakh-tarsk
and Torez in the strategic rebel-held Donetsk region, as well as Lutu-hyne in Luhansk Region.

The Defence Minister of the self-proclaimed People's Republic of Donetsk says militia
reinforcements from Luhansk are staging counter-attacks.

Tom Burridge reports from Kharkiv.

[Cidersomerset]

Satellite war imminent? US launches spy sats for orbital surveillance

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=LNuO7GzRe7A

Published on 29 Jul 2014


It's been described as the space based version of neighborhood watch.
The US has sent 2 military satellites into orbit to get a greater insight
into other countries activities in orbit.
RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

‘Why should Russian resources be given to Wall Street?’

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=zJd84SKYoPw

Published on 29 Jul 2014


It's been described as the space based version of neighborhood watch.
The US has sent 2 military satellites into orbit to get a greater insight
into other countries activities in orbit.
RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obama announces new round of sanctions against Russia

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=b5OvfeSM_NQ

Published on 29 Jul 2014


President Barack Obama announced Tuesday a new round of economic
sanctions on the Russian economy. Targeting three major financial
institutions and a government owned shipbuilding company, the sanctions
are meant to punish the country for its purported role in fueling the violence
in eastern Ukraine. RT’s Meghan Lopez has more on the announcement.

[Cidersomerset]

Why can't anyone get into the "Science" anymore? I am tired of "Politics" I don't understand
and can't read it. I just know that MH17 did not come to be this mess, because you had MH370! and
everyone is into "Politics" about it, then realizing how "Delusional" this is. I'm waiting only to find
out "Who Wakes Up"?

I understand your frustration if you are not into politics . The trouble is the downing
of MH17 is all about politics, whether its a 'false flag' to put pressure on President
Putin or not. Its a vital part of the strategic picture imo.

You can always skip the mainstream news and alternate news vids and articles....

Amzer , Jackovesks , Silent feathers and some others have posted technical posts
analysing photos etc.....

We are all wide awake here , though I'm about to go to bed , work in the morning..LOL

You can always start a scientific thread on the data of the two planes........

[sigma6]

Anyone see this?

Evidence offered by US Government derived from Social Media Posts...
http://www.forbiddenknowledgetv.com/...light-370.html

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=dteO0aZTZf4

The Russians have released their radar readings. Why will the US not release its own satellite imagery of these events? They certainly have these Instead, the USG wants to sell us primitive drawings of the event made on a 4-year old Google Map and to broadcast discredited YouTube footage (created several hours before the missile attack) and from Social Media posts of alleged separatists, bragging about the shoot-down.

To watch the exchange, here between AP Reporter, Matt Lee and the State Department Deputy, Marie Harf is to watch a snarky, prevaricating government official exude toxic deceit, as he traps her into a corner, by pointing out that the only evidence being offered by the US Government for its claims derive from Social Media posts.

After bluffing for a while, she finally shoots back that she "doesn't have the clearance to de-classify" the US satellite images, which the journalist believes it is everybody's right to see, in a circumstance of a shoot-down of a civilian airliner.
And what of the numerous reports, from completely separate sources, that bodies found in the wreckage of the purported Flight MH17, were already heavily decomposed and drained of blood, within one day of the crash, with many showing evidence of having been tortured?

Several other details shown in this clip point to the the scene of the crash as being heavily tampered, with invalid passports neatly piled together with their boarding passes, showing no sign of a 33,000-foot impact or fire of any kind, let alone human use. Many were invalid, clipped or hole-punched and would not have been admissible for boarding the plane.

More importantly, the plane, itself shows evidence of not being the designated plane on more than one count. The ID for the plane scheduled for Flight MH 17 was 9M-MRD. However, a photo published by the Daily Mail, taken by a passenger about to board, shows its ID to be 9M-MRC. The ID of the plane used in MH 370 was 9M-MRO. It would not be very difficult to paint out an "O" into a "C"...

Another oddity is the fact that according to a FlightRadar24.com live flight tracker, in a screen capture made on July 18, the day following the crash, MH 17 (9M-MRD) was shown as "canceled" on the date of the crash. In addition, from the positioning of the window in front of the right wing and Emergency Exit - the window in the corresponding wreckage is exactly where the window was positioned on the craft of MH 370 (and in the passenger's photo).

This disparity was caught before the original photo from the scene was released publicly but we are shown here, the original photograph at the scene and the one published by the MSM, with a fake window, photoshopped in. (I wonder how this photoshop jocky feels about his or her job?)

I've said enough. Watch the clip and decide for yourself whether or not the USG's and its propaganda outlet, the mainstream media's portrayal of this event is on the up-and-up.

[Selene]

Posted by Cidersomerset (here)

Why can't anyone get into the "Science" anymore? I am tired of "Politics" I don't understand
and can't read it. I just know that MH17 did not come to be this mess, because you had MH370! and
everyone is into "Politics" about it, then realizing how "Delusional" this is. I'm waiting only to find
out "Who Wakes Up"?

I understand your frustration if you are not into politics . The trouble is the downing
of MH17 is all about politics, whether its a 'false flag' to put pressure on President
Putin or not. Its a vital part of the strategic picture imo.

You can always skip the mainstream news and alternate news vids and articles....

Amzer , Jackovesks , Silent feathers and some others have posted technical posts
analysing photos etc.....

We are all wide awake here , though I'm about to go to bed , work in the morning..LOL

You can always start a scientific thread on the data of the two planes........

Agreed. Nobody said this would be easy. We are dealing with a very large picture here, a frustrating and blurry canvas of dots, smears and exclamation points, but the end image - if we are lucky - could go a long way toward exposing the dark agenda of this planet’s controllers.

On the 100th anniversary of the start of WWI, I see this as a race against time. Can we derail this false flag in time to prevent the greater holocaust of WW3? The American State Department has already altered some of its blather because of AltMedia exposure; opposition to the genocide in Gaza is growing, Russia and perhaps Germany are pushing back. The game goes on. We are getting better at what we do.

Every bit of info or detail counts. What it means and where/whether it fits the truth remains to be seen. This thread is an effort to collect all data on MH17 – and its effects - in a central place.

Patience, my friend. Your input is most welcome and perhaps a supplementary ‘pure science’ thread would be useful. It might be able to involve other experts.

Regards,

Selene

[Hervé]

Posted by Operator (here)
Here are some extensive articles that suggest that mh17 was shot down by a 30 mm canon which is fitted on the SU-25's.

[...]

Quite a bit of problems with that one:

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)

Posted by Cidersomerset (here)
Surface to air missile attack ruled out as calibre of cockpit bullet holes puts Ukraine pilots in the frame for MH17 murders

New MH 17 Sensation: German experts point finger at Ukrainian air-force jets

new Tuesday 29th July 2014 at 10:32 By david-icke

[...]

Read more: New MH 17 Sensation: German experts point finger at Ukrainian air-force jets

http://investmentwatchblog.com/new-m...ir-force-jets/

An interesting comment from the comment section of the above article:

HoustonReal • 13 hours ago This article uses a picture of an SU-27, but the German "experts" claim Ukrainian SU-25s shot down MH17. One large problem, the SU-25 Frogfoot is not a fighter, but an attack aircraft analogous to the USAF A-10. It has a maximum service ceiling of 23,000 feet when unloaded, and around 16,000 with full weapons. MH17 was cruising at 33K feet, 10K feet (almost 2 miles) higher than the SU-25 can reach.

It is also too slow to effectively intercept a Boeing 777, with a maximum airspeed of only 31 mph above the airliner's cruising speed. Modern interceptors need to be much faster to allow the fighters to quickly overtake a target and maneuver for as gun or middle shot. Sub-sonic attack aircraft make poor interceptors against any other jet aircraft. If they get lucky, they might be able to down a helicopter or prop-driven plane. What kind of aviation "expert" can ignore the inability of an SU-25 to intercept an airliner at cruising altitude and speed?

So, now, the misdirection points towards Kiev... leaving Schiphol alone...

At least, and at last, they are looking at the right kind of pieces of evidence!

So, that's for one thing.

The other thing is, when one looks at the pieces showing those holes, they look like someone has performed target practice at close range (might have been soldiers/militia on the ground beside fragments from the ground explosion when the plane hit the ground)... which led Some VT writer to think those pieces were "salted."

[Operator]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
...

So, that's for one thing.

The other thing is, when one looks at the pieces showing those holes, they look like someone has performed target practice at close range (might have been soldiers/militia on the ground beside fragments from the ground explosion when the plane hit the ground)... which led Some VT writer to think those pieces were "salted."

Yep, you're right ... thanks for reminding me.

[cursichella1]

Thanks for posting these, LinksP. I thought I understood what was what after reading this earlier thread:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post856717

But failed to retain that, then saw your thread, watched the videos, and became more confused, so flipped back and forth between here, Jim Stone's page and the other post...it just got worse. I think it's from the 3 Ghost planes video and the parts he kept focusing on...over and over again, that, and back and forth to the lone chess piece......and all those M's, R's, H's and 9's, doors and flags and stripes upside down.... Gawd, is it just me???!

(This reminds me a lot of the confusion over the 911 flight numbers. It was, still is difficult to remember which did what...except maybe for 93. I imagine that is intentional.)

Anyway, would you, LinksP or someone who finds clarity in what happened please fill in the blanks for me? It may be that I'm just tired or work from the opposite side of the brain that handles abstract reasoning...


Are the MR-XYZ numbers model numbers (Like an Audi A4) or do they identify one specific plane (like a car's license plate)?

(Check one) ______ model number ________ one specific plane

MH370 is the flight that "disappeared" earlier this year. MH370 was supposed to have been an MR-____ and it:

(check one) ____was ___wasn't _____is still unknown.

MH17 was supposed to have been an MR-____.

Photos (passenger and Reuter's Israeli) of the actual plane that left Amsterdam show that it was an MR-_____.

Photos of the crashed plane show that the plane was an MR-_____, though it was painted to appear like an MR-______.

And what about the plane stored in Tel Aviv, where does that fit in?:

It does, because ____________________________________________________.

It doesn't, because___________________________________________________.

It is unknown____________

It was used to add to the confusion___________

Flight logs show that the MR-____________ was actually in _____________, so couldn't have been in______________.

Thanks and sorry for being such a ditz here.

[linksplatinum]

Looks like this may take a while to put all the pieces together, and do some homework for these queries. Give me a little time to sort through the details so I can give you an accurate analysis, I'll try and do my best to answer this that you ask of me. I know that originally the info gets a bit mixed up in the beginning until all of data gets filtered, and sorted out by many of us detectives who are digging into this, and believe me there are x amount of thousands of us going through the same debacle. Have a bit of patience and I will return my findings soon. Thanks cursichella

[sigma6]

It's nothing but pure propaganda in the news. All I read now is about how bad the Russians are. No news of scientific comparison of satellite data, but instead I am even seeing reports about Chinese "hacking" attempts. And this news report. They are making this sound like it has relevance. Not allowing EU citizens to buy Russian bonds and stocks? Now I know why Jim Rogers moved to Singapore. That guy is just too smart. This is what the US is reduced to in order to compete in the market??? Whoaa!!!

Shouldn't it be the other way? Barring Russia from buying US stocks and bonds???? But then again that wouldn't be much of a punishment would it?
UNBELIEVABLE! ABSOLUTELY UNBELIEVABLE! (Pieczenik theory)

BRUSSELS, Belgium -- Shocked into action by the downing of the Malaysian airliner and the resulting deaths of more than 200 Europeans, the European Union approved dramatically tougher economic sanctions Tuesday against Russia, to be followed swiftly by similar punitive measures from the U.S.
The new sanctions adopted by the Europeans over the uprising in Ukraine include an arms embargo on Moscow and a ban on the unapproved sale to the Russians of technology that has dual military and civilian uses or is sensitive, such as advanced equipment used in deep-sea and Arctic oil drilling, EU officials said.
To restrict Russia's access to Europe's capital markets, EU citizens and banks will be barred from purchasing certain bonds or stocks issued by state-owned Russian banks, said the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to make public statements.

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/eu-adopt...#ixzz38vdMotXY

European Union President Herman Van Rompuy and the head of the EU's executive, Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso, said the 28-nation bloc meant to send a "strong warning" to Russian President Vladimir Putin that the "illegal annexation" of Crimea and Russia's destabilization of Ukraine cannot be tolerated.
"Furthermore, when the violence created spirals out of control and leads to the killing of almost 300 innocent civilians in their flight from the Netherlands to Malaysia, the situation requires urgent and determined response," the two top EU officials said in a statement.
Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was blown out of the sky by a missile over eastern Ukraine on July 17, killing all 298 people aboard, most of them Europeans. The Obama administration has blamed separatists armed and supported by Russia.
The new EU sanctions bring Europe in sync with the U.S., which has been pressing the bloc to take a harder line against Moscow.
Europe, which has a much larger trade relationship with Russia than the U.S. does, had hesitated to take actions as strong as Washington's for fear among some leaders that sanctions could boomerang against their own economies.

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/eu-adopt...#ixzz38ve0e4Tt

[sigma6]

[Rocky_Shorz]

just saw a notice of a UA flight that crashed in Ukraine

not mear a computer with a dumbphone...

[cursichella1]

Posted by linksplatinum (here)
Looks like this may take a while to put all the pieces together, and do some homework for these queries. Give me a little time to sort through the details so I can give you an accurate analysis, I'll try and do my best to answer this that you ask of me. I know that originally the info gets a bit mixed up in the beginning until all of data gets filtered, and sorted out by many of us detectives who are digging into this, and believe me there are x amount of thousands of us going through the same debacle. Have a bit of patience and I will return my findings soon. Thanks cursichella

Thank you, thank you! (I'm glad I'm not the only one!)

[KiwiElf]

Another "Tonkin Bay" *sigh*

[Redstar Kachina]

..........

[Cidersomerset]

The Art of War: NATO’s Global Offensive

new Wednesday 30th July 2014 at 06:57 By david-icke





‘No holiday this summer for NATO; it’s working overtime. In preparation for the
Summit of Heads of State and Government on September 4-5 in Newport, Wales,
NATO will set down the blueprint for ‘”strategic adaptation” for military initiatives
directed against Russia.

As already announced by U.S. General Philip Breedlove, Supreme Allied
Commander in Europe, it “will cost money, time and effort.” The work has already
begun.’

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=v4nFLeV8Tnw

In Ukraine, while NATO intensifies its training of Kiev’s armed forces — financed by
Washington with $33 million — they are reactivating three military airports in the
southern region, used by jet fighter-bombers of the alliance. In Poland they have
just carried out an exercise of American Polish and Estonian paratroopers, jumping
from C-130J troop carrying aircraft that arrived from the German base at Ramstein.
In Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria and Lithuania various NATO military operations are
going on, with AWACS radar planes, F-16 fighters and warships in the Black Sea.

In Georgia, where NATO was received by a delegation from the Parliamentary
Assembly to accelerate Georgia’s entry into the Alliance, U.S. instructors are
retraining troops returned from Afghanistan to operate in the Caucasus. In
Azerbaijan, Tajikistan and Armenia they are training forces chosen because they
are operating under command of NATO, in whose headquarters officers of these
countries are already present. In Afghanistan, NATO is converting the war, turning
it into a series of “covert operations.”

The “North Atlantic Treaty Organization,” after its extension into Eastern Europe
(even into the territory of the former Soviet Union) and to Central Asia, is now
focusing on other regions.

In the Middle East, NATO, without appearing officially, infiltrated forces to lead a
covert military operation against Syria and is preparing for other operations, as
evidenced by the shift to Izmir, Turkey, of Landcom, the command of all the land
forces of the alliance.

In Africa, after waging a war to demolish Libya in 2011, NATO signed last May in
Addis Ababa an agreement that increases military assistance provided to the
African Union, in particular the education and training of brigades of the African
Standby Force, which also provides “planning and naval air transport.” It thus has a
determining voice in decisions on where and how to use them. Another tool is
the “anti-piracy” operation Ocean Shield in the Indian Ocean and the strategically
important Gulf of Aden.

Italian warships will participate in the operation, conducted in concert with the U.S.
Africa Command. Their task is to forge relationships with the armed forces of the
seacoast countries: for this purpose the guided missile destroyer Mimbelli made a

stopover at Dar Es Salaam in Tanzania from July 13 to 17.

In Latin America, NATO signed a “Security Agreement” in 2013 with Colombia,
which was already involved in military programs of the alliance; Colombia may soon
become a partner. In this context, the U.S. Southern Command in Colombia is
holding an exercise of South and North American Special Forces, with the
participation of 700 commandos.

In the Pacific Rimpac 2014 is now taking place. This is the word’s largest maritime
exercise, directed against China and Russia. Under U.S. command, 25,000 soldiers
from 22 countries with 55 ships and 200 warplanes are participating. NATO is
present through the naval forces of the U.S., Canada, Britain, France, the
Netherlands and Norway, plus Italy, Germany and Denmark as observers.
The “North Atlantic Treaty Organization” has been extended to the Pacific.

Translation from Italian: John Catalinotto


Order Directly From Global Research

originalThe US has embarked on a military adventure, “a long war”, which
threatens the future of humanity. US-NATO weapons of mass destruction are
portrayed as instruments of peace. Mini-nukes are said to be “harmless to the
surrounding civilian population”. Pre-emptive nuclear war is portrayed as
a “humanitarian undertaking”.

While one can conceptualize the loss of life and destruction resulting from present-
day wars including Iraq and Afghanistan, it is impossible to fully comprehend the
devastation which might result from a Third World War, using “new technologies”
and advanced weapons, until it occurs and becomes a reality. The international
community has endorsed nuclear war in the name of world peace. “Making the
world safer” is the justification for launching a military operation which could
potentially result in a nuclear holocaust.

Towards a World War III Scenario: The Dangers of Nuclear War

By Michel Chossudovsky



Read more: The Art of War: NATO’s Global Offensive

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-art...ensive/5393872