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Thread: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

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    United States Avalon Member doetem's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    I wish I knew how to meditate correctly. Im prone to always doze off and end up sleeping. I wish I could experience this; it is most interesting! I live in Michigan, does anyone know facilities where they could possibly help me with deep meditation?

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    "Yes, for instance, the ordinary mind is quite unable to realize whatever high ideals it may aspire to. It's far too lost in compromises, and deductions, and opposite extremes, in divisions, in a will that's always either divided or compulsively obsessed, and even just plain ineptness. What's genuinely logical is to put first things first -- to quote the late Barry Long. Whenever you're doing that, you're using the Higher Mind."

    Dear Trainee Human,
    Your generous and thoughtful response is leading me to a personal dilemma - that of developing the strength of my convictions. Is it an erroneous subconscious belief that forces of the will must evolve through the taking of risks....the leaps of faith (that our intuition constantly asks)that will provide the personal discipline desirable for balanced navigation through the astral realms? (At 57 risks are more daunting than they were at younger ages) or, can one engage the HM simply through intent, retreat into stillness, asceticism etc. Do the cycles govern time in such a way that the internal impulses will organically give rise to the strengthening of the will also as humanity collectively moves?

    Carmody writes "Clarity only begins to come when the last thing to cling to - is gone. When the ability to cling, even at the most subtle and unconscious levels, is gone. One cannot think it, one cannot out-think it, one cannot game it, or play with it. It cannot be fooled, it is a real thing. Hovering on the border of dissolution, in the most base of all that represents one's given capacity to perceive and be, is where it is. When the deepest formational directive to emote in the production, emanation and relation of self is finally gone (is released and relaxed) -then it finally begins to emerge" . This perspective compels me to wonder about the relationship between our ability to see (is this not heavily determined by the position of the planets?) and our will...sort of like seeing with our hands- or feeling through our olfactory system etc..

    "Putting first things first">>I will meditate on this today. Much gratitude to you for this teaching! annacherie

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by doetem (here)
    I wish I knew how to meditate correctly. Im prone to always doze off and end up sleeping. I wish I could experience this; it is most interesting! I live in Michigan, does anyone know facilities where they could possibly help me with deep meditation?
    doetem, meditation is more a matter of in daily life getting to where you face things in you like impatience, or disgust at others' rudeness or stupidity or manipulation etc etc. It's what comes with facing the fact of all the junk like that all the time, and learning not to react and even to respond by somehow still finding and feeling the good, the rightness that's still always there, at a deeper level, so that you can still give a genuine smile maybe (unless they seize on that to exploit you), but there's still a smile within you. You only learn that through watching yourself -- your reactions and thoughts and feelings and impulses -- intently all the time, without judging. That takes practice. And oh, what commitment it takes to keep on doing that, forever if need be. But it's something you teach yourself, rather than waiting to "get taught". Those "facilities" you're looking for will just be a teacher/etc who can get you to cast aside all your limitations and do it yourself. "You" are the whole problem, I'm afraid. We all are. Also, some "facilities" that I would suggest you could tune into are every tree, bush and plant you walk past. Just being open to them, and what they are telling you.

    And when you sit down and it's quiet and you can put everything that needs doing on hold, you watch your breathing and breathe away every thought, right out of you, until all you're doing is breathing (away). If you're falling asleep then you're not watching alertly and intently enough. One contemporary Zen Master said that what's required is the kind of alertness that a samurai has when he knows he'll have to fight for his very life and he's watching an enemy who's about to attack him. This is a commitment to watching yourself like a hawk, 24/7. Persistence is a necessary key to success in any field. And you are, in a real sense, fighting for your (better) life here.
    Last edited by TraineeHuman; 21st August 2014 at 06:50.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by annacherie (here)
    "Yes, for instance, the ordinary mind is quite unable to realize whatever high ideals it may aspire to. It's far too lost in compromises, and deductions, and opposite extremes, in divisions, in a will that's always either divided or compulsively obsessed, and even just plain ineptness. What's genuinely logical is to put first things first -- to quote the late Barry Long. Whenever you're doing that, you're using the Higher Mind."

    a personal dilemma - that of developing the strength of my convictions.
    I would say convictions are largely hypocritical except to the extent that they are a description of the sum total of your actions.


    Quote Is it an erroneous subconscious belief that forces of the will must evolve through the taking of risks....the leaps of faith (that our intuition constantly asks) that will provide the personal discipline desirable for balanced navigation through the astral realms? (At 57 risks are more daunting than they were at younger ages)
    There is such a thing as Higher Will, but it's part of the Higher Mind (the soul), and one has to go inward and eventually bring that into one before it will work for one. On the other hand, if you're aware that your intuition is constantly asking you to do things, then that means you have already brought in your Higher Mind, and your intuition will already be gently telling you what to do, rather than asking you, and you'll already have the Higher Will.


    Quote or, can one engage the HM simply through intent, retreat into stillness, asceticism etc.
    That's certainly necessary too. And yes, the Higher Will operates softly, through intent.


    Quote Do the cycles govern time in such a way that the internal impulses will organically give rise to the strengthening of the will also as humanity collectively moves?
    You do need to use your Higher Will, but what most people mean by "will power" is usually a matter of using their ego-dominated ordinary mind to try to control itself a little. Intent is gentler and subtler. It's a matter of not giving the ego's urges your support.


    Quote Carmody writes "Clarity only begins to come when the last thing to cling to - is gone. When the ability to cling, even at the most subtle and unconscious levels, is gone. One cannot think it, one cannot out-think it, one cannot game it, or play with it. It cannot be fooled, it is a real thing. Hovering on the border of dissolution, in the most base of all that represents one's given capacity to perceive and be, is where it is. When the deepest formational directive to emote in the production, emanation and relation of self is finally gone (is released and relaxed) -then it finally begins to emerge" . This perspective compels me to wonder about the relationship between our ability to see (is this not heavily determined by the position of the planets?) and our will...sort of like seeing with our hands- or feeling through our olfactory system etc.
    Carmody beautifully describes what's involved in true ego death, which is the same as (the first stage of) permanent descension of the Higher Mind so that it's permanently present in such a way that you're continually conscious of that freedom, and at a certain stage one needs to pass through that, when one is ready. By "ego death" I don't mean that your ego dissolves away at this point, but simply that you now deeply know that you are something beyond subject/object, and the ego isn't truly you, and you are something much greater, and the ego, though still mostly there (but now slowly burning away, over a very,very long period), just isn't worthy of you.
    Last edited by TraineeHuman; 21st August 2014 at 05:05.

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  9. Link to Post #1745
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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by doetem (here)
    I wish I knew how to meditate correctly. Im prone to always doze off and end up sleeping. I wish I could experience this; it is most interesting!

    Remember your first love? You would think about him or her all the time. You would lay awake in bed a night, and could not go to sleep. Your love was so beautiful and honest, that with the greatest of ease you could spend hours daydreaming about her or him. That's meditation. It's just meditating on a person.

    Now the thing to do is to fall in love with your inner psychic ecosystem. Become totally and completely fascinated with how thoughts come and go, the nature of feelings & memories, the space, the emptiness, the inner theater where thoughts are displayed. Ask yourself what are the raw materials that thoughts, dreams, imaginative movies, and memories are made of? Become entranced with exploring the concepts of individuality and the collective ... what is the soul? ... where does it live? ... what is its nature and abilities? ... am I a soul? ...

    And so you fall into True Love with the whole inner environment. Your love is so great you find yourself day dreaming about inner space, emptiness, telepathy, the interconnected mystical universes inside your Self.

    Then, throw out everything you've ever heard about meditation postures. They are totally irrelevant. You can meditate in any position ... you can be laying flat on your back in bed, you can be walking around your neighborhood, you can be at work sitting in a chair and you take 30 seconds to just check inside on the nature of your inner space.

    When you truly love the inner ecosystem, you can meditate for hours. Get into the most comfortable position for you -- a position that you can be in for 15 minutes to several hours. For me it is flat on my back. One of my true loves is the Silence of the Universe. It became a part of my center-most identity several decades ago, and has allowed me to stop my mind in less than the twinkle of an eye.

    Become a devoted & passionate researcher of your own inner space. A soul explorer. Stories of inner experiences told by others are nice ... but become absolutely interested in your own, direct, first-hand, ongoing inner psychic-spiritual existence.

    As part of the inner universe that you are exploring, loose yourself in deep loving meditative contemplation on the great questions of all time ... and find your own answers: Who am I? What am I? Will a part of me exist after the death of the body? Have I lived before? Am I an spiritual offspring of the Creator? Who is God? What is God? Does God even exist?

    Who cares if you fall a sleep? There are no inner guru cops that are going to write you a spiritual sleeping ticket.

    But, when you become truly fascinated with the worlds within, you will find that you are an explorer and will stay bright, awake, focused and totally fascinated with your journeys, your discoveries. You will find yourself floating in timelessness ... even becoming from time to time, a center of highly focused awareness that is outside your physical body.

    If your love is great enough ... when an inner movie arises ... you will find that you can stop it, analyze it, and you have the ability to jump into it and explore its world ... and then naturally and with the greatest of ease, you instantly return safe and sound, to you, the Presence in your body, quietly meditating here in the physical world.

    Beautifu Path by Highwhistler of The Soul Connection Network

    Last edited by Highwhistler; 21st August 2014 at 11:17.
    In this universe of essence, mystery and love, I, Transforming Heart, am another you.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    ---

    Edited: I forgot that here either one agrees with everything, or stays quiet.
    the rest is edited by me.
    Last edited by chocolate; 25th August 2014 at 09:16.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by chocolate (here)
    Highwhistler, with all due respect, sometimes I find your posts as some sort of a commercial. And I also don't agree with a few of your points, but that is beside the point.

    Thank you Chocolate, My Friend, for your comments.

    If you were to investigate my creations, my website, my offerings, you will find that I've never made a single penny of profit from everything that I've created & shared since 2005.

    In fact, over the last 9 years I've spent thousands of $ to present my creations free to one and all. And in all that time I've only had a few small donations to help support my website, essays, books and audio files.

    Everything I do in the realm of spirituality is non-commercial. It is a donation to humankind.

    I make a living and pay the rent thru organic urban vegetable gardening -- not through spiritually-oriented creations.

    My situation is similar to Bill Ryan's, in that this forum is not a money-maker for him, it never has been, and he never wants it to be. The same is true for my website, posts, visionary art work, free downloads, essays that I offer to everyone.

    Here's an example ... please download and read through to the last page, page 7. And here's one of my books, also for free ... please download. It is 180 pages. If you like it, you are invited to pass it along to all kind-hearted friends for free, and they can pass it along, as well.

    I think you noticed that I add my artwork to the end of every post ... which is unusual for most people who participate here on this forum. It is rare to find people who make their own self-created visionary artwork and use it as significant aspects of their communications. I happen to be one of them. I would LOVE to see more people share the artwork that they created, with us, here on Avalon, and weave it into their posts, so that it becomes a normal part of the way they communicate on all topics.

    My artwork is a significant way in which I express my Self. I'm a retired art director and have a huge collection of original visionary artwork that I've created over the years. And so I intuitively place a piece of artwork into each post ... attempting to match the imagery with the ideas I'm sharing.

    And so, thanks again for your thoughtful review of my messages.

    In peace,

    Highwistler

    Ancient arrow rock art by Highwhistler of The Soul Connection Network.
    Last edited by Highwhistler; 21st August 2014 at 22:08.
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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Hi doetem,
    I like to give my two cents despite the fact that TH and Highwhistler already gave some good advice.

    I recommendate an upright position of your spine and in the beginning just five to ten minutes of sitting in awareness.
    You can sit on a chair without using the backrest or in a more
    eastern traditional position (Lotus-Position or Half-Lotus-Position).
    This advice is just given regarding your sleepyness.
    Of course, as Highwhistler wrote, it's not a problem to fall asleep.
    So if you're getting tired, change your position, leave your chair and sleep.
    Be gentle to yourself. Ever.

    You can watch your breathing as TH mentioned or seeing your thoughts passing by like clouds, maybe you jump onto them and
    leave into mind-chatter and come back again.
    Perhaps there are some emotions you can feel in your body, stemming from experiences of your day. Embrace them all and be gentle, especially when they're nasty.

    Show life your willingness to be open.

    It's your unique way -
    go for it! 👌


    Oh, and Highwhistler,

    ...maybe chocolate likes it bittersweet! 😉
    Last edited by animovado; 21st August 2014 at 22:30.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by animovado (here)
    I recommendate an upright position of your spine and in the beginning just five to ten minutes of sitting in awareness. You can sit on a chair without using the backrest or in a more eastern traditional position (Lotus-Position or Half-Lotus-Position).

    Once you fall into True Love with meditation and your direct, first-hand, ongoing experiences of your own inner psychic-spiritual universes ... then you might find your Self meditating all the time -- no matter what physical positions, places or times that you find your Self in.

    You are meditating all the time because you are so much in love with the unfolding vibrant psychic materials, the infinite serene spaces, and the rewarding insights that unfold from casually looking within.

    Simply observing your normal, average, everyday, inner conscious "realities" with love and attraction, focusing your meditative attention ... is not a problem or an exercise ... it is absolutely easy, effortless, enjoyable and a normal thing that you do all the time. It is a part of your center-most nature.

    Please notice that you can sit upright in a lotus position to achieve a straight spine.

    Please notice that you can lay down -- flat on your back -- and achieve the same straightness of spine ... but also be 100-times more relaxed and stay in that position effortlessly for hours.

    If you are laying down, with a perfectly straight spine, and your love for your own inner psychic-spiritual ecosystem is fully engaged ... then you cannot help but dive straight into (with fully awake consciousness and attention) ... straight into the heart of the "thing" you love.

    In this way, your mind and body becomes silent and they disappear from your awareness ... as you -- the Presence, lovingly merges with the unfolding of your own inner psychic-spiritual ecosystem.

    You as a meditator ... you are a devoted researcher, you are an explorer ... and you explore the Universe of Universes behind the scenes, in the silence of your soul.
    I ... Universe, by Highwhistler of The Soul Connection Network

    Last edited by Highwhistler; 21st August 2014 at 23:45.
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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Highwhistler has made some posts which I consider were and are wonderful. (Maybe you don't like the style, chocolate, but one can look deeper at what's being said, what sorts of invitations to explore are very genuinely and seriously being made). In some ways I'm reminded of her a little by the central character in a wonderful and hilarious movie that another member, Love, recently posted in another thread. I don't watch movies these days, because there's normally so much fantasy in them I lose interest long before the end.

    But this movie is so full of "wall-to-wall" truth, that fact alone in my opinion says a great deal about the effects of the ego's neverending fantasizing as we see it in our society. I'm posting it in this thread too, just in case anyone has missed out on watching it as yet.


    By the way, annacherie, I'm still going to make a post on the subject of "divine grace", since you asked for it (the post, that is). But I don't believe I can even come close to the wisdom and breadth expressed in Highwhistler's two recent posts, that are very relevant to explaining what real "grace" is and how you tune into it and bring it into your life.
    Last edited by TraineeHuman; 22nd August 2014 at 10:31.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    [QUOTE=chocolate;867230]Highwhistler, with all due respect, sometimes I find your posts as some sort of a commercial.
    And I also don't agree with a few of your points, but that is beside the point.[/QUOT

    Universal concepts such as following bliss can come across in an impersonal way. I really appreciate the intimacy and authenticity that comes with acknowledging ones own humanity -at times it is difficult for me to arrive at an understanding through conceptual sharing altho that too can reflect in a wonderful way ones' intent but what I want to know is who you are.....and also...who I am.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvglEmkhpzY

    "Enlightenment is a destructive process --its the complete eradication of everything we thought to be true" - Adyashanti
    Last edited by annacherie; 22nd August 2014 at 19:34.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by animovado (here)
    Oh, and Highwhistler,

    ...maybe chocolate likes it bittersweet! 😉
    let me once again rephrase -- my inner compass works really very well and also sharp, so far.
    May be this will be one reason for me to actually leave this place.

    And because we like also to color our posts with photos:



    Please, don't say thanks, not necessary.

    I was told to use my inner knowing. I can give the same advice to everyone who participates here, except for TraineeHuman. In my view his thread and style is really very natural and helpful. And easy to read, technically.
    I cannot say the same for everyone else.
    Last edited by chocolate; 22nd August 2014 at 19:23.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    "When a pickpocket meets a saint, all he sees are pockets." and ...... when a saint meets a pickpocket ..... ...Please forgive the cryptic tone of my posts chocolate its just that i have more questions than answers. I do feel anger over that which is conveyed through deceit ....purposely. I will stop here as to not further derail the thread.....
    Last edited by annacherie; 22nd August 2014 at 20:19.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Hello chocolate

    I think you have much to share here along with TH. I still read through this thread from time to time and find some good spiritual advice from time to time in many of the words shared here from time to time. I like your ability to express yourself and think outside yourself (not fake) thank you. There are over a million truths out there and everyone has one, what works well for someone else does not always work for others, those picking things apart should realize this. Don't stop being yourself inside yourself this is the most precious thing any of us has. It is not that the path is not straight it is the many things that block the path that cause so much interference, their truths and their ideas which are only meant for guidance.

    Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

    powessy

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs



    I truly enjoy Chocolate's reviews, comments and thoughtful points of views.

    Thank you Chocolate!

    Please keep-up the good work & play ... as expressed through your heart-filled messages.

    I feel you are an ancient kind-hearted friend.

    In peace ... & thank you

    "I stand in a tower of giant ancient friends" by Highwhistler of The Soul Connection Network

    Last edited by Highwhistler; 22nd August 2014 at 23:27.
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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by annacherie (here)
    "When a pickpocket meets a saint, all he sees are pockets." and ... when a saint meets a pickpocket ...

    I don't follow along with all the spiritual sayings and quotes, but that's one of my favorites. The way I heard it was slightly different:

    "When a pick-pocket meets the Buddha, all he sees are his pockets."

    And so that is an insightful idea. For instance:

    A pick-pocket will see the Buddha's pockets.

    A dentist will see the Buddha's teeth.

    A hair stylist will see the Buddha's shaved head.

    A lover of inner silence will tune into the Buddha's love for serenity.

    A person who thinks the Buddha is absurd, will point out all his faults.

    I feel the Buddha, if he were to respond to the diverse points of view
    (with the slightest smile and a bit of humor), would simply say:

    "Is that so?"

    We Create Beauty Together by Highwistler of The Soul Connection Network

    Last edited by Highwhistler; 23rd August 2014 at 00:21.
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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Doetem, I'd like to offer some further suggestions about how to learn to meditate -- at the risk of your possibly getting overwhelmed with all the suggestions. But this question is the one I get asked the most often in PMs (closely followed by the question of how to astral project in a completely safe way). You see, I'm sure a number of us could go on indefinitely about this subject. We love this stuff. We're married to it. We live it so intimately.

    One very effective gateway into meditation is just to keep really facing whatever's false in you, and not dodging, but allowing it to fall away. As Sherlock Holmes would say, whatever's left over must be the true you.

    A second gateway -- which applies once you've been making some progress in meditation, but I'm throwing it in anyway, because I consider it's so good -- is to drop all doubting of whatever you seem to experience during meditation. (About eighteen years ago, while meditating I suddenly saw that no form of work was actually boring to me. Instead, that it was me that would get boring when I did certain forms of work. Since that day I can do any kind of work and not feel one ounce of boredom, ever. But that's after over half a lifetime of meditating.) All doubt (in situations such as this) comes from the (ordinary) mind. Drop it all, like a hot potato. Once you do start getting insights, just let them sit there, don't doubt them. Let them silently work on you. Maybe you'll discover that you're undefinable. Maybe even that you're Infinite. Don't doubt it, but don't act on it, either. Just let it sit there and be.

    A third gateway, that I love so greatly, is that of letting everything be just exactly as it is. Not so simple to do, until you get the hang of it. To explain this, I'd like to quote most of post #283 here:

    Quote All forms of meditation take everything away except you. They’re kind of like a scientific experiment, in that sense. However, meditation isn’t dry or mechanical, either.

    You really will get more out of every time you meditate if you understand what meditation is about is:
    just you watching you.

    And when I say “you,” I mean you at your most natural. Just “pure” you. A state with no problems. The “I” behind the “me.”

    There’s a strange and fascinating twist, though. Meditation, of any form, is designed in such a way that all the while you keep letting go of all memory of what you were looking at, even one second ago. You keep watching and forgetting. But the watching – the alertness – is vital. So, equally, is the letting go and instant forgetting. Any time you manage to do both of these together: “You’ve got it!” as Henry Higgins might say.

    You’ll notice there’s something amazingly loose and easy about that forgetting. It really is in many ways the opposite of keeping yourself on a tight leash. OK, you do it while (probably) sitting quietly, and just paying attention. But inside of you, you completely let yourself run wild. At least, in whatever sense it’s possible to “run wild” when you’re every second dropping and forgetting all thought or emotion.

    J. Krishnamurti said ultimately much the same thing in a different way. He said that true meditation does not rigidly follow a path, a discipline, or a method set down by others. Also, that it must not involve discipline, effort, or force. So, forget about trying to do it the “right” way. The more you’ve forgotten everything like that, during meditation, while still being very wide awake and present, the deeper you’ve gone.

    Common mistakes

    The biggest mistake I have seen in “experienced” meditators is that some of them become experienced in using “meditation” to make themselves duller. We have seen that in meditation one of the major instructions is to not hang on to any thoughts (or memories). But that doesn’t mean shutting down the flow of your natural life-energy and consciousness. Incidentally, your life-energy and consciousness are one and the same as your sexual energy and consciousness – except that in meditation they operate at a subtler and finer and gentler level. So your body doesn’t get sexually aroused. On the other hand, in meditation you do get more and more in contact with the energy and consciousness of genuine love and of gentleness and sensitivity.

    The second biggest mistake is a fear or unwillingness to let go; a desire to control what’s going on. You simply drop that.

    The other point I must make is that it’s important to make use of the benefits of meditation. Meditation is only useful to you to the extent that it makes you more intelligent, in the true sense of “intelligence.” Yes, it does greatly lessen the intensity of any pain or hurt or fear you have been aware of that day. But you also need to use the greater positivity you gain from meditation to face all the painful things – the things that press your buttons – head-on. That’s something that needs to be done outside of the meditation session. During an actual meditation session, the aim is to completely “switch off” from those painful things. To return to your origin, your source, that was there before the world ever was. No problems.

    I should add, though, that there is a constant flow of (for these purposes) rubbish thoughts that doesn't stop. You kind of just learn to turn the volume down with regard to these, or even to ignore them fully.

    One further point. If you want to become a professional tennis player, you need to practise, practise, and then practise. Where I’ve said above that discipline and effort aren’t relevant, please don’t jump to the conclusion that you can miss out on daily practice.

    Watching the breath

    Each form of meditation gives you some instruction to follow. Usually, that instruction is given to you with the understanding that it’s merely a boat to get you across “the river” of your pain-body’s resistance. And that once you get to the “other side of the river,” you don’t need the boat.

    In meditation based on watching the breath, that “boat” is the action of watching your breath in a certain way, normally accompanied by something that’s a reminder to let go. To let go of everything, and just allow everything to be exactly as it is. In my experience, for many people watching the breath seems to be the quickest way to learn how to meditate. I have also found that when they learn this method, people don’t seem to veer off into spaces which they will then need to get through before they seem to reach the destination.

    Some people learn how to do this form of meditation properly within days, and quite a few within weeks of daily practise. You know when you’ve started really reaching the right place with a vengeance when you start encountering intense joy or love. Soon after, you’ll find that in addition you’ll reach a space of very pleasant peace. You could call that “presence” if you like, because it’s so satisfying and fulfilling, it sure isn’t “nothing”. I guess it’s no-thing, i.e., it’s formless.

    Watching the breath – the exercise

    Find a quiet place where you won’t be disturbed. It should be indoors, or at least have walls on all sides around you.
    Sit in a chair, or at least with your back straight and each arm resting on your upper legs. Very gently close your eyelids.
    Pay attention to your breathing. Breathe from your abdomen.

    Whenever your body starts to breathe in, silently say “Peace” (or: “Let it be”) to yourself. When it starts to breathe out – and not before --, silently say the same. As you do so, be aware of having the attitude that you’re ever so gently letting go of whatever thoughts come up in your mind.
    Keep doing this until you no longer notice your mind silently “speaking” thoughts. At that point, stop saying “Peace” (or “Let it be”).

    But if you start to notice any thoughts again, go back to saying “Peace” (or “Let it be”) with each inbreath and outbreath, until they disappear.

    When you’re finished, give yourself SEVERAL MINUTES to come out of that trance-like state slowly. Begin by wiggling all your fingers and toes, with the eyes still shut.
    When you are ready, open the eyes, but still keep wiggling. Gradually make your body movements bigger. Begin to move your wrists, then your lower arms, and your ankles, then lower legs. As you do, let your eyes and your intuition “register” everything around you, “feeling” its solidity almost as if you were touching it.
    Without moving your behind, stretch your arms and legs, and swing them about a little. Finally, move your entire body about, including lifting your behind off the chair.

    Warning: At first, don’t combine watching the breath with feeling the aliveness. Equally, it’s OK to practise feeling the aliveness outdoors, but not watching the breath. The reasons are “technical”. I’m certainly not the only practitioner who warns strictly against doing certain forms of meditation outdoors. Most types of traditional movement meditation, such as t’ai chi, qi gong, and hatha yoga are fine. So is feeling the aliveness, and being at one with Nature.

    Other forms of meditation

    The other forms of meditation generally substitute something else for watching the breath. This can be a mantra, for example (a word or phrase like “Om” or “peace”). In most cases, it is something that you keep repeating – until you get to a space where you stop paying so much attention to your thoughts. The great thing about the watching-the-breath meditation is as follows. Firstly, all the other forms of meditation also require you to keep “letting everything be exactly as it is,” or to keep letting go of thoughts and feelings. Secondly, we are already aware of our breathing all the time anyway. So, watching-the breath meditation is the form that requires the most minimal effort.
    You’re doing meditation of any kind the ideal way once it starts being “one” with you, or kind of “taking you over.” For instance, if you are doing a movement form of meditation such as t’ai chi, it’s when the energy of the exercises seems to be moving you rather than you. Or when everything physically around you seems to be saying the mantra, if you are doing a mantra meditation. It feels like everything seems to be saying the mantra because you have entered a space of sufficient unity that for you, everything has become the same. And so on.


    Creative visualization and affirmations

    Some people use the word “meditation” to refer to 'creative' visualization – or other self-hypnosis, or self-reprogramming. This has superficial similarity to meditation. It supposedly can be used to lessen the power your ego has over you. I claim it does fail to actually remove any of the ego.

    Remember

    If you’re a beginner at meditation, it can take days or weeks or much, much longer before you start accessing any bliss or oneness, even one drop of these. But that’s not a reason to give up practicing every day. Personally, I don’t miss a day because almost every time I meditate I get to drink in some ecstatic pure love and peace. If you keep at it, those sorts of wonderful experiences do happen for many people.
    And here's a link to post #1396

    And one to post#1296

    And please, doetem, do tell us what you do or don't experience. You're in good hands here. And please keep priming the pump, because it almost certainly won't happen overnight. That doesn't mean you give up after several weeks and walk away for twenty years before you"ll give it another try. Loving help is here for you , with us -- at least as far as words can help, and to some extent long-distance healing and help too. But it's up to you. You tell us. As I said, we love this stuff.
    Last edited by TraineeHuman; 23rd August 2014 at 07:06.
    Above all, always refuse to cut your life in two: nonduality/duality, matter/Spirit, etc
    A mind which is not crippled by memory has real freedom. ~ J. Krishnamurti
    (True, deep) stillness is the way.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by annacherie (here)
    In the midst of listening to the RS videos (still pondering the first 4) I am struck by a couple of concepts that hopefully might introduce relevant discussion on this thread. ...
    I was deeply touched by his discussion on how healing and teaching were conveyed directly through astral transmission. ...(hopelessly devoted student here ) This suggests grace could be given to another rather than having to be earned, which remains true today, yet seems our present state is one that leans very heavily towards initiation by fire so to speak. How does this concept apply to present day OBE possibilities?
    My notion of "grace" may be different from yours, annacherie, as I'd like to explain now. But before I do, let me mention one way that we may have a similar notion. That is that most of reality lies beyond the capacity of thought. For instance, in twentieth century mathematics and logic, it's generally considered that the two most outstanding discoveries were regarding the complete undefinability of truth by "rational" means, and the absolute unprovability of most mathematical or logical propositions. The first of these is known as Alfred Tarski's undefinability theorem and the analysis that accompanied it. It proves that truth is completely undefinable by means of "rational" logic, and hence by "rational" thought generally. Of course, we also know other ways in which reality lies far beyond, and is far greater than, anything thought or thoughts can ever create, as J. Krishnamurti spent his career explaining. And in later nineteenth and then twentieth century philosophy, the notion of "the death of philosophy" -- coming initially from Kierkegaard and Nietzsche but eventually dominating all philosophy completely -- was also all about the discovery of how limited thought and its creations actually are.

    Next, let's move to meditation, or similar practices. My understanding is that the Christian, Jewish and Muslim traditions used the term "grace" mostly to refer to the leap into formlessness, at least where meditation or contemplation was concerned. Once one is in formlessness, nothing which is a specific method, or any creation by thought, will take one higher.Well, that's apart from anything that's really a non-method or anti-method, such as letting go, or letting everything be as it is, and so on.

    But it's not a matter of  God out there giving you a Christmas present. Rather, it's your Higher Mind taking over and being fully present, at least temporarily -- instead of the "normal" you, for most individuals. But it's still you -- albeit a more true you -- that does the work.

    It's also not clear to me if you appreciate how psychic healing works. Yes, you're right in saying that it primarily occurs OB, and then the physical effects are really just a kind of spin-off. Again, though, it's actually the client that does virtually all of the healing. All the healer does is get the client to connect truly and fully with their HM for a brief time.

    Maybe you could give us some specific reference to which part(s) of the Steiner videos chocolate provided you were thinking of?

    Another point I'd like to bring up is that we're all the time being showered with treasure beyond belief, but we don't see it. You could say that spiritual liberation is a matter of learning to see what's fully there, and to accept it. In other words, to gently destroy whatever in you is false. And opening up to Nature. This is yet another reason why true self-esteem is so important. You, and I, we all don't deserve all that rubbish our society tries to sell us. So we need to stop compromising at the deepest level. This brings us to to the notion of "transmission" by "grace", but I'll save that for another post soon.
    Above all, always refuse to cut your life in two: nonduality/duality, matter/Spirit, etc
    A mind which is not crippled by memory has real freedom. ~ J. Krishnamurti
    (True, deep) stillness is the way.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    i was taught grace was unmerited favor... mayb i should look deeper
    OBADIAH 1:21
    The Good things in life

    "...where ever you go, there you are..."

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    More regarding "grace". Yes, we may receive some extraordinary realizations or downloads from other individuals, who may or may not currently have bodies, and also from Nature. Or even just serendipitously we get the right advice, or synchronicity happening. In every case, I suggest all the other individuals will be doing will be facilitating our ability to see the glory of our own inner nature more clearly. We may not know that that's our own inner nature that's so glorious. We may have difficulty letting ourselves accepting that it might be -- which would only really be accepting ourselves.

    As thunder24 has already worked out, I don't see "grace" as something that involves us being passive, for the most part. Even for the Higher Mind, the soul, to come through, it takes a certain level of surrender from us. A certain degree of "sacrfice" of the ego. That's often hard work. It can be tough. At first it's certainly a slow learning process, and we'll only do it partially.

    What we gradually come to realize here is that something higher -- ultimately Source itself -- is actually sacrificing itself for our benefit. We also come to realize that this cuts both ways. That something higher, that's certainly "other" than our own limited personality and sub-personalities, is ultimately keeping us alive and is offering us a pure love that quite contradicts and totally forgives the tininess and the suffering-addicted nature of the ego. And we begin to surrender to it because it is the only means to our liberation and perfection. Well, most individuals recognize this in a very unconscious sort of way, and stay with their ego. Most of the creatures on the entire planet do this, but only in a limited way.

    When you truly surrender to your HM, however, you gladly follow it with your whole being and your heart and body and will and mind. Maybe at first you just surrender to helping others, to brightening others' day, and so on, but that's really an intermediate stage to outright surrender to the All. Once you do make that plunge, you'll at last begin to feel truly fulfilled, and your heart will want to sing. However, your ego will fight back hard, because you will be dethroning it from control of your life. And it has many hooks into your dark side with which it can control you, and initially give you a rough time once you begin seriously outgrowing it.

    annacherie, I assume you were considering a statement in the Steiner video 4 that chocolate referred to above. That was a staement about how if a student at the Egyptian mystery schools was ill, they would be permitted to sleep in the temple, and would (apparently) be cured of their illness in the morning. Well, I would say that I know that at certain locations it's much easier to contact positive beings, including ones capable of providing psychic healing. But as I said in my previous post, most of the healing work is really done by the healee, once the healer has reconnected them temporarily to their HM.

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