The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

[chocolate]

edited by chocolate

[TraineeHuman]

Real meditation is a very holistic or total phenomenon. One should integrate it with one's life in such a way as to bring greater balance into one's life. Looking at chakras can be useful to a professional who's trying to assess someone's areas of weakness, but that's still secondary if the person is really in touch with and surrendered to their HM.

The beauty of "advanced" meditation, or of OB experience of formless planes, lies in the realization and maintenance of one's indefinability. If you're indefinable, not only are you whole to a certain degree but in many ways you can't be a victim. You're too undivided to be conquered. And there's no longer ultimately a target there, even though your indefinable consciousness does still of course work through and with a limited body and mind.

[chocolate]

edited by chocolate

[jerry]

Im fascinated by this Obe phenomenon, as when I was very young around 12, 13 years old I had an experience and for some reason or another I have never revisited the experience and am in pursuit of this as I know for myself its real. I never shared this with anyone and have become more and more intrigued. One of the main reason for becoming part of this community forum here .

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by jerry (here)
Im fascinated by this Obe phenomenon, as when I was very young around 12, 13 years old I had an experience and for some reason or another I have never revisited the experience and am in pursuit of this as I know for myself its real. I never shared this with anyone and have become more and more intrigued. One of the main reason for becoming part of this community forum here .

Hi, Jerry. I had a spontaneous and unexpected astral travel experience at about the same age too. I went up to the ceiling, looked down at my body for some minutes and then eventually floated back down into it.

Adults find it harder to do so. This is simply because they are much more firmly attached to the world of concepts (thoughts), and particularly to their self-concept and the conceptual matrix that's society's version of "reality".

In my OP I thought I had made it at least moderately clear that OB experience is based (solely) on very much the same thing as meditation -- namely, on going beyond (above) all thought.

Alas, evidently not! Not at all! Nearly every member posting in this thread proceeded to assume that OB experience is achievable via manipulations of the (conceptual, ordinary) mind. Manipulations such as hypnotic "commands" to oneself, or "affirmations" to oneself. This amazed me. What could I do? I probably should have been more forthright and more emphatic in making it clear to them that it seemed they were simply using (ordinary) mind to try to go beyond (ordinary) mind. I was amazed that intelligent people could mislead themselves so badly. The trouble was, I suspected they would have dismissed me for being too emphatic, and for pushing "one point of view"! They just wouldn't believe me. After all, what would I know, when I can slip into OB states naturally and don't need any mind "method" at all (not that such a thing ever works).

One thing they did manage to do in most cases, despite their obstinate self-imposed huge handicap, was to remember some of their dreams in considerable detail. That was impressive, and constructive. Actually, since a few decades ago I have conducted one-to-one nonverbal psychotherapy of some kind with individuals, OB or telepathically, for part of the night, almost every night. And what I found was that I could somehow facilitate the above members' ability to remember some of their dreams. Which was interesting to me, because I live in Australia and there are time differences as far as when both they and I might be sleeping. I did feel led to take a small number of naps on certain occasions, but the weird thing is that I believe I managed to somehow "jump time" and experience some of their dreaming from the future relative to them, because my bedtime was later on than theirs. Or maybe they "time jumped" to me. Anyway, at least 70% of the time, if not 100%, I can remember somehow being in at least part of their dream as they then later described it in this thread. Usually I experienced their dream from quite a different angle than they did. But because I make myself available at night to help others of genuine intent with their development somewhat, and because in each case these members telepathically requested my help while they were sleeping -- I never butt in whatsoever except when and as far as requested --, I believe I somehow managed to facilitate their ability to remember their dreams, and even their taking over control of their dream and their altering it in some cases. As far as I'm concerned, such dreams are OB projection, and I don't really agree to drawing some fine conceptual-mind distinction between "astral projection" and "lucid dreaming" anyway.

But aside from that lucid dreaming, most of those members didn't seem to advance their OB skills radically beyond where they started from. Which to me just confirmed even more conclusively that the way to go is through becoming fluent at meditation first. That's how astral projection has traditionally been taught for many thousands of years, as far as I know.

First you become a meditator to beyond a beginner stage, which probably takes several months or more of intensive daily practice. You need to reach the stage where you consistently go beyond thought, i.e., higher than the conceptual/pictorial (and therefore also the emotional, and the physical) plane of reality. Once you're in the beyond-conceptual, you're in some level of what I call the Higher Mind, or the soul. To the ordinary mind, this seems like "nothing", simply because it's beyond its grasp.

But once you've learnt how to go there, beyond the world of concepts and forms, you have a new vantage point. That vantage point is the engine, so to speak, for all OB experience. It's the sine qua non, it's all you need, too.

Initially, if you try to "look" at what lies outside yourself from this higher vantage point, you'll probably find you see images of landscapes in the lower astral -- which looks almost the same as the physical, with the exception that you probably notice you seem to be flying (or I always did), and that whatever location you now focus on, you fly there at great speed. You won't necessarily be on the ground, either. You can be above or below too.

In a recent post I've mentioned that one way you'll be totally safe from all "nasty" beings or entities in the lower astral worlds is if you don't fantasize, or don't indulge your conceptual mind there at all. Which is exactly what basic meditation educates you to do, but not exactly overnight.

There are still traps, but not from "nasties". For instance, I spent several years astral or mental traveling --usually under special escort, mind you -- every night. That's why I know for a fact that every part of the solar system contains highly intelligent life at supra-physical levels. But one trap I fell into for about four full years after that was as follows. The lowest astral worlds are more intensely sensual than the physical world. Colors are much brighter, tastes are more intense and varied. I had learnt how to detach from the physical desires which tend to weigh one down greatly and stop one from going to the supra-conceptual planes. But I hadn't shaken off some conditioning that told me I was supposed to find fulfillment through the ideal romantic relationship. Also, I believe I had had very little past (lifetimes) experience of any physical world. So something inside me suggested I was missing out, I wasn't getting my money's worth for my ticket of being born in this physical world. So it was that for four years I would feel the pull of sensual desires, in the magnified form they take in the lower astral, yet at the same time somehow I strongly felt or knew that this was all futile and misguided. Very frustrating, but I eventually moved beyond that.

Do you have any questions, Jerry?

[Jake]

Jerry, TH has an amazing mind, and it shows. Be advised that this phenomenon is NOT a one size fitz all scenario. Many of the direct methods used by many projectors, work brilliantly. Albeit, stepping stones to a bigger way of thinking about it... I, for one, would not attempt to teach an infant to run in a marathon until, of course, the infant had learned to crawl, then to walk. But then, I have taken to TH, so I will not attempt to take away too much from what is being delivered here,, except to point out a message in TH's signature,,,, It goes to the heart and soul of why one should be critical of information that you have not come across yourself, personally,, from experience.. "There is NO teaching,,, only LEARNING."

My OBE experiences have been mostly spontaneous. There are gifts in the messages of Robert Monroe, Robert Bruce, William Buhlman, etc... None of these modalities quite match up,, yet they have all proven to be gifted explorers/pioneers...

Most advanced projectors will focus on the experience rather than the implications to consciousness. TH has gone waaayyyy past that,, and his information is invaluable. Just take it all in stride, as you may (ha! May?) experience different aspects to this phenomenon that TH and I have never even imagined... Yep, it is like that!!!

To foreshadow your own experience onto others, especially in the early days of OBE exploration,, can be quite the pitfall... I try and not do that to people as it can augment the natural experience of it... The nature of OBE required a lot of trial and error, it is a personal learning experience that WILL be different for everyone...

Open your mind to the experience and 'let' it happen.. I've never come across a 'technique' or 'modality' that works every time. TH is correct is his assessment of these things becoming un-necessary and distracting,,, but they may work from time to time. Once you can get out of your body (in the traditional 3d sense) your instincts will guide you to whatever 'exit' approach will work best for you.

I read over this thread. It is advanced reading. IMHO... TH has skipped right past 'baby-steps' and on into some pretty sophisticated conscious application of thought. TH shines like a star, either way!!!

The OBE will teach you all that you need to know. Take it slow, breath. Learn to meditate and quiet your mind. There are as many different 'concepts of detatchment' as their are people to realize it..

And please keep us updated... This may be my only advice to you, in this thread,,, as TH can get grumpy with me chiming in too often...

Love to you, and never doubt your natural ability to project.
Jake.

[annacherie]

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)

Posted by annacherie (here)
"Yes, for instance, the ordinary mind is quite unable to realize whatever high ideals it may aspire to. It's far too lost in compromises, and deductions, and opposite extremes, in divisions, in a will that's always either divided or compulsively obsessed, and even just plain ineptness. What's genuinely logical is to put first things first -- to quote the late Barry Long. Whenever you're doing that, you're using the Higher Mind."

a personal dilemma - that of developing the strength of my convictions.

I would say convictions are largely hypocritical except to the extent that they are a description of the sum total of your actions.

Is it an erroneous subconscious belief that forces of the will must evolve through the taking of risks....the leaps of faith (that our intuition constantly asks) that will provide the personal discipline desirable for balanced navigation through the astral realms? (At 57 risks are more daunting than they were at younger ages)

There is such a thing as Higher Will, but it's part of the Higher Mind (the soul), and one has to go inward and eventually bring that into one before it will work for one. On the other hand, if you're aware that your intuition is constantly asking you to do things, then that means you have already brought in your Higher Mind, and your intuition will already be gently telling you what to do, rather than asking you, and you'll already have the Higher Will.

or, can one engage the HM simply through intent, retreat into stillness, asceticism etc.

That's certainly necessary too. And yes, the Higher Will operates softly, through intent.

Do the cycles govern time in such a way that the internal impulses will organically give rise to the strengthening of the will also as humanity collectively moves?

You do need to use your Higher Will, but what most people mean by "will power" is usually a matter of using their ego-dominated ordinary mind to try to control itself a little. Intent is gentler and subtler. It's a matter of not giving the ego's urges your support.

Carmody writes "Clarity only begins to come when the last thing to cling to - is gone. When the ability to cling, even at the most subtle and unconscious levels, is gone. One cannot think it, one cannot out-think it, one cannot game it, or play with it. It cannot be fooled, it is a real thing. Hovering on the border of dissolution, in the most base of all that represents one's given capacity to perceive and be, is where it is. When the deepest formational directive to emote in the production, emanation and relation of self is finally gone (is released and relaxed) -then it finally begins to emerge" . This perspective compels me to wonder about the relationship between our ability to see (is this not heavily determined by the position of the planets?) and our will...sort of like seeing with our hands- or feeling through our olfactory system etc.

Carmody beautifully describes what's involved in true ego death, which is the same as (the first stage of) permanent descension of the Higher Mind so that it's permanently present in such a way that you're continually conscious of that freedom, and at a certain stage one needs to pass through that, when one is ready. By "ego death" I don't mean that your ego dissolves away at this point, but simply that you now deeply know that you are something beyond subject/object, and the ego isn't truly you, and you are something much greater, and the ego, though still mostly there (but now slowly burning away, over a very,very long period), just isn't worthy of you.

Dear Trainee Human <3

lI've thought about you and your responses daily and it t has taken some time ,reading, rereading ...and meditating on our conversation to bring me to this ponderance. My experience of taking risks (prompted by intuition) has not always yielded the hoped for transformation - lurking subsurface only to return were the shadows born of being human....emotions of jealousy, insecurity, but most of all a sense of being alone would return to remind me that t he momentary leap of faith wouldn't always yield the freedom yearned for. The "risks" that are actually organically motivated,( even tho people like to think and profess otherwise as their infinite wisdom is hindsight) seem to accompany with them the "breakthroughs" that seem a result of a wheel turning! When contemplating the really big cycles--the movement in our heavens, I am reminded of Einsteins' premise that either everything is a miracle or nothing is--no inbetween....it just seems that the only real "control" I have is to release. Having said that time does yield to repetition ...slowly but do we truly have free will? A very dear friend told me once to do what is within me (or that which is in-spir-ational) . This guidance has helped me to live in present moment.
I am so glad to have found you and thank Bill Ryan and the forum for making our meeting possible. Trainee Human (and Carmody and chocolate, Jake, Wind and all those contributing to this conversation) you inspire (!) new discourse in my realm and I soo love the teachers in my life.
Much love to you all - annacherie

[Joe Akulis]

*sigh* I love this thread. :-) Can't stay away for very long.

I haven't really been in the kind of mode this summer where I have been able to dedicate myself to much inner exploration, and I hope what I call "patience" with it is not an ego-satisfying way of saying I'm just lazy, but it probably is. Heh heh.

Anyway, I wanted to drop in and say thanks again for making yourself available to us here, TH. I am truly humbled to have made your acquaintance.

Some interesting tidbits I thought I would pass along, as I'm not quite sure what to make of them. I've had a couple dreams lately where it felt like I was getting involved with people and possibly trying to help them. In one case I was visiting my sister, who has some serious problems with paranoia that are really affecting her life. It's been my suspicion for a while now that she has another entity sort of latched onto her. Possibly a personality from a previous lifetime of hers, or perhaps just an earthbound spirit that has found a weak bond to exploit with her.

In one of my dreams it felt like I had paid my sister a visit and was trying to help shoo this entity away, sorta like "go on, scram". But perhaps not quite as tactless as that makes it sound. :- )

I also had one the other day where in my dream I was visiting a friend and saw that she had an "attachment" problem where her father was negatively affecting her and I was doing the same thing, kindof spiritually stepping in a protective role and saying scram.

I've been wondering if I should be looking at these dreams as more of an inner work of my own, as if to say that I have been personally working out my anxiety about my sister. Perhaps a message to myself that what she's going through is part of a contract and I shouldn't let it get me down? I'm not sure.

It definitely doesn't explain the second dream though, because in that one it was all spontaneous. I had no notion that this person was troubled in any way, so I don't think I could qualify this second dream the same way, as being some kind of inner work I was carrying out on myself. I guess for now, I'm thinking it could be Dreams-Gone-Wild, and leave it at that, in order to keep my ego quiet. Or if indeed I was attempting to help people, I hope I wasn't causing more harm than help.

Anyway, just checking in to pass along my love to everyone on this thread, and echo some recent sentiments: Spiritual growth is inevitable. We can pursue it and cut down the amount of experience it takes to make each stride, or we can let nature bring us to that growth while we entertain some of the coolest distractions we can find along the way. If your course matched mine, and your exercises in the pursuit of that growth mirrored mine or anyone else's, then we are duplicating effort. The point of this universe and every other universe is: It's here for us to check out and explore in every way imaginable. If we all came back to source with the same stories, it would be a little bit disappointing, wouldn't it? :-)

Joe

[annacherie]

Posted by seeker1972 (here)

Some interesting tidbits I thought I would pass along, as I'm not quite sure what to make of them. I've had a couple dreams lately where it felt like I was getting involved with people and possibly trying to help them. In one case I was visiting my sister, who has some serious problems with paranoia that are really affecting her life. It's been my suspicion for a while now that she has another entity sort of latched onto her. Possibly a personality from a previous lifetime of hers, or perhaps just an earthbound spirit that has found a weak bond to exploit with her.

In one of my dreams it felt like I had paid my sister a visit and was trying to help shoo this entity away, sorta like "go on, scram". But perhaps not quite as tactless as that makes it sound. :- )

I also had one the other day where in my dream I was visiting a friend and saw that she had an "attachment" problem where her father was negatively affecting her and I was doing the same thing, kindof spiritually stepping in a protective role and saying scram.

I've been wondering if I should be looking at these dreams as more of an inner work of my own, as if to say that I have been personally working out my anxiety about my sister. Perhaps a message to myself that what she's going through is part of a contract and I shouldn't let it get me down? I'm not sure.

It definitely doesn't explain the second dream though, because in that one it was all spontaneous. I had no notion that this person was troubled in any way, so I don't think I could qualify this second dream the same way, as being some kind of inner work I was carrying out on myself. I guess for now, I'm thinking it could be Dreams-Gone-Wild, and leave it at that, in order to keep my ego quiet. Or if indeed I was attempting to help people, I hope I wasn't causing more harm than help.

Anyway, just checking in to pass along my love to everyone on this thread, and echo some recent sentiments: Spiritual growth is inevitable. We can pursue it and cut down the amount of experience it takes to make each stride, or we can let nature bring us to that growth while we entertain some of the coolest distractions we can find along the way. If your course matched mine, and your exercises in the pursuit of that growth mirrored mine or anyone else's, then we are duplicating effort. The point of this universe and every other universe is: It's here for us to check out and explore in every way imaginable. If we all came back to source with the same stories, it would be a little bit disappointing, wouldn't it? :-)

Joe

Heh heh Hi Joe _ Yes indeed!! Rationalizing any (and every) thing certainly gets crazy in a world where discernment is a necessary skill and at the same time judgement prejudices and limits reality - Having just served on jury duty and watching my kids struggle it seems this is an issue I need to really explore and like you say the answers all vary -and thank the Great Mystery for being mysterious! At least there is solace to be found in the knowing its all grist for the mill. This conversation asks me to sink deeply into my heart. annacherie

[aranuk]

Hi, I don't know if this question has been answered, but 59 pages of 30 posts are a lot to read. When I go to bed and try to get to sleep, quite often, I feel as if my entire system is switched off and complete darkness and silence is all that remains. On every experience like this I think I have just died and I let out a loud roar of fright. My guess to what is happening is that I am conscious of the exact point of falling asleep. I then normally just drift off to sleep slowly and gently. My question to Traineehuman and Jake is this: If the next time this happens and I don't get frightened, what will I find happens?

Stan

[doetem]

Thissd is very remarkable!

[chocolate]

I have to stop here and say a few words that many may not quite place, but in any case.

Some say one's greatest teachers are not one's friends, but one's enemies, or those who appear as such.
I have had my great moments reading this thread, and I will be *forever* grateful to TH for them.

There are, and will be, many more threads about OBEs, and as many opinions as there are people who can participate in them. But this is and will be the closest to what I can call my preferred thread on the subject.
I may have reacted here 'in a way', and with TH we are aware when and why it happened, but I am also human and can make sometimes a bit too fast moves without considering the other side of the story.

I hope those who really need to understand the process, will spend the time reading here. Because that is not just 'lay in your bed-get the vibes-concentrate-and off you go' type of a thing. It is probably one of the most fundamental abilities that we (still have), but not all of us do it consciously, and many have lost the awareness of being in it.

And above all, friends and foes are 'All God', as Ram Dass sometimes points out in our silent conversations. ( via FB )

I consider TraineeHuman a friend, as are all other members who I have 'met' here.

[chocolate]

In happiness, it is the physical and emotional elementals that feel complete. When a person's consciousness enters the analytical mind, he loses the sense of a feeling of completeness because he begins to see how much there is yet to satisfy his urges, drives, and desires. He then loses a part of his happiness.

Joy begins when a person's consciousness penetrates into the higher mind. The higher mind sees things in holistic concepts and gradually impresses the physical and astral bodies with the feeling of completeness -- because every bit, every experience of happiness, every want or desire already exists within them. They can enjoy all the happiness of the world by eating one apple, or all the happiness of joy of sex and friendship with one partner. Thus, the higher mind not only restores happiness to the lower bodies but also makes a person realize joy.

The state of bliss develops slowly when the consciousness makes a breakthrough into the Intuitional Plane, where feelings of completeness begin in all-inclusiveness. The flow of bliss continually feeds a person's joy and happiness, supplying him with psychic energy.
(Happiness, Joy & Bliss, p. 275)

Torkom Saraydarian

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by chocolate (here)

In happiness, it is the physical and emotional elementals that feel complete. When a person's consciousness enters the analytical mind, he loses the sense of a feeling of completeness because he begins to see how much there is yet to satisfy his urges, drives, and desires. He then loses a part of his happiness.

Joy begins when a person's consciousness penetrates into the higher mind. The higher mind sees things in holistic concepts and gradually impresses the physical and astral bodies with the feeling of completeness -- because every bit, every experience of happiness, every want or desire already exists within them. They can enjoy all the happiness of the world by eating one apple, or all the happiness of joy of sex and friendship with one partner. Thus, the higher mind not only restores happiness to the lower bodies but also makes a person realize joy.

The state of bliss develops slowly when the consciousness makes a breakthrough into the Intuitional Plane, where feelings of completeness begin in all-inclusiveness. The flow of bliss continually feeds a person's joy and happiness, supplying him with psychic energy.
(Happiness, Joy & Bliss, p. 275)

Torkom Saraydarian

An amazingly concise summary of how the Higher Mind or soul interacts with the lower planes of ourselves -- the physical, emotional, and ordinary mental. Thank you very much, chocolate.

For about two weeks I have been away because I developed a serious health problem probably because of emotional stress. (Well, I am 64.) Some individuals never recover from that particular problem, which causes huge and often persisting physical discomfort. Right now I may have come close to healing it away, or at least to holding it at bay. But I've found it far, far easier to bear that acute physical discomfort, and my body-consciousness's accompanying fear of it, by remaining in touch with that higher "lightness" and joy somewhat.

[chocolate]

Well, that post made all the difference in the world for me. So, I guess I can afford one offtopic:

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by annacherie (here)
Dear Trainee Human <3

lI've thought about you and your responses daily and it t has taken some time ,reading, rereading ...and meditating on our conversation to bring me to this ponderance. My experience of taking risks (prompted by intuition) has not always yielded the hoped for transformation - lurking subsurface only to return were the shadows born of being human....emotions of jealousy, insecurity, but most of all a sense of being alone would return to remind me that t he momentary leap of faith wouldn't always yield the freedom yearned for. The "risks" that are actually organically motivated,( even tho people like to think and profess otherwise as their infinite wisdom is hindsight) seem to accompany with them the "breakthroughs" that seem a result of a wheel turning! When contemplating the really big cycles--the movement in our heavens, I am reminded of Einsteins' premise that either everything is a miracle or nothing is--no inbetween....it just seems that the only real "control" I have is to release. Having said that time does yield to repetition ...slowly but do we truly have free will? A very dear friend told me once to do what is within me (or that which is in-spir-ational) . This guidance has helped me to live in present moment.

annacherie, the way to get the negative emotions like fear, anger, hatred, resentment, impatience and so on to diminish more and more is through meditation. It's a very, very lonnnng process. I can talk about it in a sentence or two, but the lived experience is ever so much more gradual than such words might suggest to the mind.

But if you persist in intensive daily meditation, or something equivalent, I can assure you that you will pass through -- or, to use the traditional term from long before all the talk of humankind's "Ascension" -- ascend through, various stages. I believe I can tell you pretty much just what those stages are. I believe your quandary is mainly about ascending fully beyond what I would see as the lowest stage. The lowest stage is one where the body-consciousness's feelings and desires reign supreme. Believe me, meditation will take you mostly beyond that eventually. In my careers in the corporate world one of my biggest problems would be that others would suppose I was an easy target to exploit, simply because they could observe that I clearly wasn't governed by desires and the pressure of all the time serving my own physical survival. I also had to learn not to smile fully in any business situation, because again, that would make me look too generous and too tolerant, and mean individuals would jump to the conclusion that they could get away with murder.

In the second stage one moves into eventually having your life dominated by higher aspirations and ideals and interests and experiences. Believe me, although there's no longer a preoccupation with your own survival there, you automatically tend to survive very well, because of all the value you create. As I've said recently in another thread, fear (and for that matter the other negative emotions) are confined to your animal part, to your body-consciousness, and the aim is to realize that you are something much greater than a physical, animal body.

The third stage, beyond that, is one that operates by what we might call "blind grace", or "blind trust in God". You seem to be at least touching this stage at times also, from your comments. But at that point you plunge without any fear or hesitation or inhibition into the ocean of freedom, and even, after a while, of the Infinite, ultimately. That's something greater than any standards of behavior, however universal or archetypal such may be. It's an impersonal space in various ways, and one where you acquire great flexibility but you also surrender at least somewhat to the Divine, where there are no fixed structures any more but it's continually formless and changing and divinely crazy.

I could write pages about this, but those are the stages in a nutshell.

I don't know if I've zeroed in enough on what you'd like some friendly advice/ideas about. So please say so if you'd like further discussion or clarification or points of view to consider.

[TraineeHuman]

annacherie, here are some further thoughts on this huge subject. In very broad terms, one of the things everyone needs to do (when they're ready, and serious about personal liberation) is reconnect with their intuition, and then to connect more and more with it. In this Forum members share words often with the aim of reaching or engaging with spiritual truth primarily through intellectual/conceptual reflection and speculation. But that's not the royal road. Rather, it's a matter of taking inner action, taking the plunge, the leap with (seemingly) no safety net.

Nor is the best way one based on working through the emotional being -- refining, and getting closure, with regard to negative emotions and interpretations -- and also working that through use of the will. Even though that is how much of Western psychotherapy (including the pop alternative kind) and also the Tantric tradition work. Certainly, the end goal of both this type of approach and also of the intellectual inquiry one is that in the end you get insights, which in fact are always purely intuitive insights. All insight whatsoever is part of the operation of the intuition, actually, may I suggest. Insight is the way. The beautiful way.

It's also not a matter of just raising one's consciousness into some higher world -- some heaven -- and escapistically living totally from there but rejecting the world of the mud. That's true even though in such a heaven you would indeed be operating much more fully from intuition.

Instead, it's a way of transformation, and using your ever more and more developed intuition to as far as you can "spiritualize" or uplift, and in that sense change the world immediately around you. A big part of that process is to more and more identify the ignorance in yourself. Which you're doing, so congratulations. That ignorance is opposed to your transformation -- as you've said. I would say much of the overcoming of that ignorance -- the fear, the impatience, and so on -- happens through identifying and facing it, as you are doing. Plus through eternal vigilance, watching of yourself, and doing so with the fullest honesty you can bring at the time. That self-watching is an action, even though it's inner. And it's always quietly creating change for the better. It's an inner action. We usually don't realize that such inner change is occuring, because we tend to wrongly suppose that who we are remains the constant unchanging point in a chaotic world. But not so. We change for the better even though we usually don't notice it.

Finally for now, in general the best way I know to reconnect with your intuition is meditation -- which can also mean fun things like qi gong or t'ai chi or dervish whirling or chanting. The intuition initially and for some time "speaks" very softly, it seems, but that's only because you haven't been "listening" much before now. I don't usually hear it as a voice of some kind, but some people apparently do. To me it's more like an urge or a non-physical, non-emotional feeling or sensing. It's very, very gentle, and vulnerable. But in great subtlety there's great strength. In this way you eventually come to see it as a mighty Force.

[TraineeHuman]

This is a post about kundalini. Recently I have exchanged PMs and other energies with a number of different members regarding what I have been experiencing. It has been truly wonderful for me to discover what a deeply caring and diverse "family" it turns out I am a part of here. I have been through a little journey which has been quite eventful.

In a nutshell, it seems clear now that what I have been going through for almost three weeks now is some kind of continuous experience of raised kundalini. In the first two weeks it was scary because one of the things I was experiencing daily was some chest pain that was pretty close to a threat of possible heart attack. By now I've been checked out by cardiologists and they say my heart is fine, and that my chest pain is coming from to them quite unkown causes but certainly not from any problem with my heart, at all. In fact, my physical symptoms have been off the charts weird and outside the box to all the medical professionals I have consulted.

It's also been physically very uncomfortable. The biggest discomfort has been when I've tried to get to sleep. Every night except last night, it's taken me between half an hour to two plus hours just to get to sleep. That's been because I've felt a physical thumping inside me as if my arteries were a little blocked or at any rate as if my blood pressure were extremely high (which in reality it isn't). The thumping has often been in my legs some of that time, certainly in my side, often in my chest, often in my belly, sometimes my back, and so on. I sent a PM to Ray aka Finefeather recently, who has significant experience of prolonged kundalini, and my intuition tells me that somehow he or his connections assisted me to get to sleep very, very smoothly last night. During the day, I'm still feeling, among other thumpings, a pounding in my calves or my legs generally, maybe 50% of the time, and that's not physically comfortable. I guess I'm slowly teaching myself not to mind that discomfort. Now that I know the daily very brief twinge or two of pain in the center of my chest is very unlikely to be connected to potential heart attack or heart disease, that makes things easier too -- especially if I'm woken up by such a passing twinge. Also, for two days or more I was feeling something uncomfortable in my head, but most of that has now cleared and I'm now getting an extraordinary alertness in my brain and everything everywhere seems to be almost literally glowing ultra-bright with aliveness, with life-force. I seem to actually see greater light everywhere. So my concerns about possible stroke or mini-stroke are also quite diminished at present.

Why am I telling you all this? Partly for the benefit of anyone else who in the future finds themselves going through a prolonged kundalini experience. It's a natural part of spiritual growth eventually, and apparently happens to everyone, at least in some lifetime anyway. But as I say, it's been beautiful how so many members have expressed such caring to me, each in their own very unique way.

An experience like this seems to get triggered only if you have been through absolute hell beforehand. It happened that I was experiencing stress coming from many different sources all at once before this experience got triggered. By the way, it started after a big ball of energy came hurtling up my spine, kind of smashing against the bottom of my skull at the neckline and then going through the middle of my brain to the top of my head. Right now, I'm congratulating myself for having made lemonade out of the lemons. Because a prolonged kundalini experience is supposed to bring a transformation for the better. Well, we'll see.

I did experience a kundalini experience that lasted over two weeks straight, back in 2001. At the time I had a teacher who was a master of kundalini, and she made most of it very smooth sailing -- after the initial hell before the experience itself. She said I was experiencing it prematurely, and she kind of worked to shut it down gently because of the prematurity. I can't prove this to you, but I happen to know, with as great a certainty as I know anything, that she was a reincarnation of the famous Oracle at Delphi, the one who advised Alexander the Great and so on. A might weird person, but possessing an extraordinary depth of spiritual wisdom. The Oracle at Delphi had the slogan "Know Thyself", and man, did she live that with every fibre of her being, and so obsessively. I once spent a weekend during summer at her seaside home, and it was so deadly intense even when she was relaxing at home. I also had a special relationship with her because she often looked to me as a kind of "judge" of how she was doing as a spiritual teacher, apparently. Also because she eventually worked out that I was a guardian angel on "vacation", so then she became preocuppied with communicating with everyone's g.a.s and exploring the higher dimensions that the g.a.s come from, plus how they interact with the healing angels (from lower dimensions).

Earlier in this thread, Deneon was talking about some kundalini phenomena he was experiencing. Although I don't believe he was experiencing something as intense as what I'm currently going through, I do now understand more of the significance of some things he was experiencing. Let me explain first that there is a certain phenomenon any psychic healer often experiences when they work a little with someone else who is a natural psychic healer but doesn't know it. This is that the latter person experiences a kind of "jump start" of their heart that may raise their blood pressure for a very brief period, and at any rate may cause them concern, even though the anecdotal "evidence" is that it doesn't seem to cause harm to their heart. Rather, it seems to be something like this. The latter person, being a natural healer, is able to operate at a higher "frequency" in some sense, as psychic healers do. But because the heart has a very strong energy field of its own, it initially resists when that individual's overall energy field kind of jumps or resonates to a higher frequency. Or something along those lines.

[chocolate]

You are not alone in this TraineeHuman. <3
And, I guess, this applies to anyone else.

[TraineeHuman]

Here's the latest development in my kundalini adventure. Ray (Finefeather) kindly explained to me that any uncomfortable symptoms will probably be due, in some way, to kundalini energy not all managing to flow through to the crown chakra, at the top of the head. The discomfort apparently gets caused by energy stuck lower down, where presumably it can't get converted from energy into higher consciousness. Maybe it causes grief because it has something like too high a "voltage" or too fine a "frequency" for the lower chakras and structures to deal with effectively.

Anyone out there who was reading this thread around February or March 2013 will remember that at the time I was explaining in detail that in what I consider all the truest or the complete meditation traditions, one is first taught to concentrate on and open up and develop the heart center, then later the third eye / pineal center, then eventually the oversoul chakra above the head. (And later on, when one is descending the energy after having learnt to ascend it, one may also to some degree concentrate on these centers in a reverse direction, and also the other chakras then too.) Well, since years ago I'm quite able to concentrate on my oversoul chakra (and the link to it from my crown chakra, which feels like a crown of roughly concentric rings of energy at the top of the head). Simply by one's concentrating on that strongly, any -- or some -- stuck energy in the body will tend to flow up and then out and be transformed. That's oversimplifying a little, though, because equally important is a holistic sense at all times of one's total energy field. Without that, any focus on chakras is a trap -- or that's what my former teacher who had been the original Delphic Oracle would always be quick to emphasize.

And such concentrating on the area above my head is what I've been doing a small amount of for the last half-day. The result so far is that the thumping/pounding sensation is now significantly milder, certainly 50% or less of what it had been up till now. Also, I'm now continually feeling very energized in a stable or calm way, so there's now something physical there that's positive to counterbalance what physical discomfort remains at the moment.

I used to observe how the teacher I've mentioned used to work with the kundalini in people. She was very interested in brief raisings of the kundalini, up the body to somewhere above the head. She was able to induce a spontaneous such experience in 5% to 10% of strangers the first time they met her as part of a New Age audience. I then noticed that I could do the same -- probably because I had "osmosed" the skill from her. I also used to attend classes she held, and for most of the attendees she clearly considered that the most transformational experiences in their entire lives were the brief (about five to fifteen minute long) kundalini experiences they had had, often without realizing it but also several occurring with her (or with me). Typically, these individuals mostly had between ten and twenty such brief kundalini experiences in their lifetimes so far, and most of them were aged forty plus.

When I observed such a kundalini experience, I would mostly be watching a roundish ball or cloud of energy four inches to two feet wide that was a very, very pale grey, and that would initially form and linger several feet below the person's feet for about five minutes. Then it would move very slowly to somewhere around the person's feet and then stay put for at least several minutes. Eventually it would start moving up the body, but would seem to get very stuck at least once in that journey, but still with what seemed like a much greater lightness and less inertia than when it had been below or near the feet. Eventually it would pass beyond the top of the person's head and the person would have a big psychological breakthrough and that would be that. Well, not quite, because the person's own guardian angels would be very busy adjusting and healing what looked like energies in or connected to the person's head mostly. Plus, they would have a whole medical team of healing-angel medical specialists and doctors and nurses there, who would spend at least five minutes and usually at least ten minutes afterwards feverishly doing psychic surgery and other psychic medical procedures of some kinds on the person, in the astral.

One thing I discovered when observing individuals going through such brief kundalini experiences was that I could do something to facilitate their getting the movement of the kundalini ball of energy up their body unstuck. I should mention, though, that I had in the past spent at least thousands of hours intensively training in how to nonverbally work with energy in certain advanced ways, and at least hundreds of hours in being directly trained through non-stop nonverbal feedback from advanced (living) masters, from a number of different modalities or approaches. And that's all after having in the past released various abilities via going through experiences of enlightenment. Basically, the way I facilitate another's kundalini is by virtually ceasing to exist in the world of forms -- or that's how I like to see it. Plus, I become "one with" them temporarily, not interfering with them in any way but simply making my skills or energies temporarily available for them to use as they see fit. I don't know whether this skill is helping me now to move what's left of that kundalini energy up and out of my own body more quickly, or if it's just a matter of my concentrating on my crown chakra or oversoul chakra.