The Out-of-Body-Experience. A Place Where Science and Spirituality Meet.

[Jake]

Have you ever wondered what it was like to sit in on one of those OBE/Astral Projection Training Courses that you may see on the internet from time to time? There are several that you can find and participate in, but,, usually at a cost.. I've participated in several.. And several more seminars and professional group meetings regarding the OBE...

I have found that many of these practitioners/teachers are in it for the money. I don't have a problem with folks making some money for their efforts.. With that said,, charging money for this sort of thing is a big turn off. Especially considering that you cannot guarantee to someone that they WILL have an ObE... I've given basic one day tutorials/presentations, but I did not charge. I found that if someone pays MONEY to learn this stuff,, they expect results to be delivered to them on a platter.. (so to speak) If my only requirement is dedication to the learning and experimenting,, then we have much better results..

With all of that said,,, There is a little less known author/experiencer of the ObE named Robert Peterson... Robert wrote a book called The Out-of-Body-Experience, How to Have them and What to Expect. This book is offered for Free.. Click to read the online version forwarded by Charles Tart.

Peterson takes us through another journey of a complete skeptic, turned avid practitioner of the ObE!! Feel free to read this book,, it is a gem. Peterson recognized the ability to 'transport' your astral body to different 'locales', but he rather enjoyed the wonderful and amazing joy of FLIGHT... Just flying around in the astral. He covers the mechanisms of navigating into the astral, and the implications of what we are actually DOING when we are learning to fly in the AStral... Lots of astral journeys, for me, came to a slow end as I realized that I was losing my ability to fly. I couldn't fly high up,, or I start getting 'heavy and sinking' down,, or I have to act like I am 'swimming through the air' in order to fly. There are different reasons that one may have difficulty moving and/or navigating. It could be fear, it could be lack of energy, lack of mental clarity, etc... When this happens, the OBE usually phases into the dreaming states,, which in turn will cause the memory of it to be experienced as if it were a dream, or it may cause the memory to be completely lost.. Peterson was on to something.. Again, feel free to read this eye opening take on a regular Joe,, who transformed his life via the ObE...

Peterson was one of those who gave lectures and seminars and classes on how to have ObEs.. What would it be like to be a 'fly on the wall' in an ObE seminar?? Well I found some 'class notes' of one of his classes.. These are just notes, but they are chalked full of brilliant insights and amazing information... Take a looky looky.... Class notes from Robert Peterson's seminar on ObEs...



Love to all
Jake.

[Violet]

You know, Jake, I was going to start a topic on that; on why people with special gifts say they want to help you and humanity and then end up charging more than your best local surgeon. I understand that these people have to make a living but the rates are not helpful at all, especially not for the helpless audience they focus on.

About chances of getting in OBE state, it seems (to me) that something drastic has to happen to your body first for increased activity to take place on that level. I read in Buhlman's books that in sickness it is easier to separate. My personal experience was that rigid detox/fasting/cold turkey and/or meditation (tight schedule, no anomalies) creates the best condition (as do periods of extreme sadness and desperation, but best not invite those). If you just live a day to day life being basically very interested in the topic but not actively doing anything as in: physically preparing your body, then you must just wait on and be very lucky.

I don't know about other travellers. How do you feel about that?

Sebastion, what you said about dreams makes a lot of sense. Great addition to what Jake said, thanks to both. And it gets even more interesting because once the dreams are clear enough as a letter from High Self to Yourself, then reality too starts talking to you about you...You begin to see that things happen for a reason.

[Jake]

Posted by Violet (here)
You know, Jake, I was going to start a topic on that; on why people with special gifts say they want to help you and humanity and then end up charging more than your best local surgeon. I understand that these people have to make a living but the rates are not helpful at all, especially not for the helpless audience they focus on.

About chances of getting in OBE state, it seems (to me) that something drastic has to happen to your body first for increased activity to take place on that level. I read in Buhlman's books that in sickness it is easier to separate. My personal experience was that rigid detox/fasting/cold turkey and/or meditation (tight schedule, no anomalies) creates the best condition (as do periods of extreme sadness and desperation, but best not invite those). If you just live a day to day life being basically very interested in the topic but not actively doing anything as in: physically preparing your body, then you must just wait on and be very lucky.

I don't know about other travellers. How do you feel about that?

Sebastion, what you said about dreams makes a lot of sense. Great addition to what Jake said, thanks to both. And it gets even more interesting because once the dreams are clear enough as a letter from High Self to Yourself, then reality too starts talking to you about you...You begin to see that things happen for a reason.

I actually have mixed feelings on the issue.. I don't mind folks making a living... But I cringe every time I think about it because it is a slippery slope=greed.. When I wrote my wee book in 2010,, I floated it around to several different potential publishers, authors, etc... I got some very good advice and some encouraging feedback, but was unwilling to go further.. One researcher contacted me and offered to BUY it from me. He wasn't going to publish it,, just add it to his collection of research that he would maybe release or sell one day... From what I found out, the publishing business isn't what I expected it to be..

If I was being offered money to NOT share my info,, then I figured that there was a problem.. I didn't know exactly what it was,, but for me, I couldn't do it.. I don't see it as MY information. I planned all along to be part of this awakening... Sure, I am going to offer what I have found, but I don't foresee me selling anything... Well, at least not intellectual information..

I've heard of folks charging outlandish amounts of money, so as to keep out the riff-raff... That makes pretty good sense too... But that isn't what I would do... Everyone in my family thinks that I am crazy for not 'going into business' with my knowledge of OBE... Nope, not happening... I try and not judge others. In fact I have good friends who make their living in just that way... It's not for me. But who am I to judge... One of my BIGGEST sensitivities are folks who put folks off with their 'higher than thou' attitudes based on what they have learned regarding consciousness and being 'beyond the body'.. It makes my skin crawl!!! Maybe you've noticed... If we don't include others in our journey of discovery then what is the purpose??? I get sometimes put off by good folks who are LOOKING for a maser or Guru too... This all comes into play when considering selling this type of intellectual 'property'... I just don't want the games,, so I don't bother selling it... I am planning free seminars this next summer in my area.. Getting venues, planning, materials, meals,,, it all costs money.. I know a great couple that have recently bought property that used to be a camp for like a 5th grade camp!!!!! They have offered to help, but that is still very much up in the air.. I also plan to contact the folks over at Trout Lake, in my area... (UFO Hotspot and waypoint for some very cool, next level stuff..)


With regards sickness and ill health.. Muldoon, for one,, was quite keen on pointing this problem out... He always had bad health during the thick of his ObE experiences.. Later in life, when he got much better, his ObEs lessened. Chicken or the egg? Did he have bad health because he was projecting? or Was he projecting easier because of bad health.... I think it is the former,, bad health not because he was projecting,, but because he never once considered the health of the Energy Body... There have been lots of methods over the years which required exotic approaches, including detriment to the physical body... Fasting or starving yourself,, blood letting for trance induction,, torture,, DEATH.... (NDE) There is definitely a connection between the overall health of the body (Energy/physical) and going beyond the physical... Countless reports of folks with fever, or bedridden because of a flu or pneumonia are reported as a precursor to an ObE.. I posit that one possibility could be that having full body fever or flu forces full body awareness, and therefore stimulates energetic flow,,, and by default,,,, Obe....

If I scrape my elbow and it starts to hurt... My body awareness is FORCED onto that area. Remember here that focused body awareness is what stimulates energy and energetic flow... The PAIN is your bodies way of forcing you to focus on it, so that it can be sure to have the subtle energy component that is required for healing.. Without focused body awareness,, (the PAIN) we may never heal... If we didn't have the PAIN, then we wouldn't know to focus awareness there, and we wouldn't heal... At least not as effectively... I realize that not all body parts have the ability to communicate PAIN... But for the most part, focused body awareness works just like that!

When we are sick, we have a natural tendency to focus body awareness ALL OVER OUR BODIES,, ie,,, the pain of a flu... Focusing body awareness and working with full body energy is what we have been learning about with specific regards the OBE.. There is, obviously,, much more to consider, but there is a definite tie-in with Health,, and energy and ObE...

I'd be willing to consider that I am way off base,, but it makes perfect sense to me...

Cheers.
Jake.

[jerry]

I have been thinking for a while that with the subtle Obe experiences, that have been nothing to speak of, it may not be something I may get to experience again in this life. Last evening has changed that idea. I felt the paralysis and a extremely intense vibration, very different from any of the other experiences I have had. I would describe it, as others as a jet engine roar. It was very brief and it came after an evening of tempting the OBE for a good couple of hours when I had given up rolled over and went off in to a dream. I was soon awakened to the paralysis and consciously knew what was happening. As I laid there trying too pull the OBE off the vibrations came on terribly strong, and it was as though I was forcefully slammed with myself coming back into my body. I awoke from the experience, felt totally drained without any recollection of being out, but the vibrations and paralysis where so intense I find it hard to describe and very different from past experience. I didn't get scared or anything, I was more elated, knowing from what I have been reading exactly what was going on. It left me totally drained. Couldn't wait to share and hopefully get some feedback. thanks in advance.

[Sidney]

Hey Jefferey, My father can wiggle his ears too. When I was a kid, I spent hours trying to do it,, unsuccessfully. But I CAN wiggle my second toe without wiggling the others. LOL Silly human tricks. Ha Ha

[jerry]

Greetings all, reading Jakes post (#200) a question came to mind about (sleep walking) dreaming, how it may or may not relate to the OBE experience? anyone?

[Sebastion]

I have decided to open up a bit regarding my own private experiments regarding the brain and the importance of neurons. Bear with me while I try to put this as simply and straight forward as I can. This is a theory I have been working with for 30 plus years and it seems to have much merit!

First, Anthony Robbins has stated that it takes 21 days for anything to become a habit and he stated also that he didn't know why that was ( we are putting the clues together here!)

Next clue-I overheard a neurosurgeon state that after surgery, it takes 21 days for neurons in the affected area of surgery, to come back online and begin functioning again.

Next clue-as Sirdip keeps repeating, shut off your computer, tv, for 30 days as per Buhlman and focus on obes. Get my drift here? Could neurons, neural networks in the brain have anything to do with that? I would say emphatically, yes! Could it be that what is transpiring in the brain while you are practicing learning how to obe, your brain is developing the neural networks at the frequency you need in order to become aware of actually leaving the body?

Remember you could be leaving the body quite naturally all the time but are not aware of it because you haven't the neurons yet to allow you to be aware of it? Possibly.. Have patience with yourself and allow the brain to "wire" itself accordingly. Consciousness is electrical in nature which implies "frequency". Could it be that you may need to develop a neural network which is capable of opening up to the particular frequency that's required to become aware of oob travels? Methinks, after 30 years of personal experimentation that there is a lot more to this than anyone realizes. The possibilities are awesome.

When I looked back at what I had to do in order to induce/become aware of my spiritual traveling, I found by looking at my over-all consciousness, that I had specialized my consciousness to do so, unknowingly at the time. It was only by looking back, that recognition was possible. Methinks the only reason why this happened is because my brain had developed the neural networks to become more acutely aware of it. There is much more to this but enough for now.

[Jake]

Posted by jerry (here)
I have been thinking for a while that with the subtle Obe experiences, that have been nothing to speak of, it may not be something I may get to experience again in this life. Last evening has changed that idea. I felt the paralysis and a extremely intense vibration, very different from any of the other experiences I have had. I would describe it, as others as a jet engine roar. It was very brief and it came after an evening of tempting the OBE for a good couple of hours when I had given up rolled over and went off in to a dream. I was soon awakened to the paralysis and consciously knew what was happening. As I laid there trying too pull the OBE off the vibrations came on terribly strong, and it was as though I was forcefully slammed with myself coming back into my body. I awoke from the experience, felt totally drained without any recollection of being out, but the vibrations and paralysis where so intense I find it hard to describe and very different from past experience. I didn't get scared or anything, I was more elated, knowing from what I have been reading exactly what was going on. It left me totally drained. Couldn't wait to share and hopefully get some feedback. thanks in advance.

Jerry, Wow! You just described how I project. I do NOT have mastery over this craft. Like I said, I can set the stage,, but then I have to wait,, (mostly).. I do all of the things that you described, then I usually simply fall asleep and wake into an energetic state. What is happening is that we are pre-programming our thoughts setting a mental condition.. What I mean is that our thoughts will cycle and repeat.. It's just like the exercise where we try and become lucid in a dream.. (we do it several times throughout the day, and it will repeat during the night in your dream.) When we lay there and do energy work and get deeply relaxed and breath and clear out the random thoughts and focus awareness away from the body,,, etc... All of this is going to repeat during the night... When you meditate, and clear your thoughts, you are working with a built in mechanism that keeps our waking mind aware of the thoughts,,,, that's why they keep cycling. We can work with this same mechanism in reverse... And that is to concentrate on a process,,, ie,,, OBE,,, visualize and picture it,, do all of the things that we have talked about. TRY and not fall asleep, but don't worry if you do. You are slowly building your trance 'range'. Your thoughts will repeat the process during the night. Much of this, your system is already doing while you are asleep. But the 'proactive' part of yourself will be triggered to wake up... It is difficult to explain. But you know what I am talking about...

When we are going through the phases of falling asleep, and transitioning between wakefulness to sleep, It is called the Hypnogogic states. (Agogos- 'inducing', Pompe- 'act of sending') Sleep paralysis occurs during the hypnogogic states. Maybe you have been aware of a sudden 'jerk' at the edge of falling asleep. This is the Hypnogogic state, a state of 'threshold consciousness'.. When one is transitioning from the sleeping states back into wakefulness, it is called the Hypnopompic state. Also a state of Threshold Consciousness. These two states are almost identical, in that one is simply the reverse of the other.. However there are MAJOR differences in our mindsets during these states. I have had sleep studies done by professional Sleep Medicine Doctors.. They were nice enough to answer all of my questions and explained a lot to me that I didn't understand about the phases of sleep.. The reason that I ever took notice of the differences is because I began to notice that my Spontaneous OBEs were consistently happening upon Waking up, rather that happening when I was 'falling' to sleep. I've already mentioned that slipping into trance, for me, is quite easy,,,, too easy as I usually slip right past the sign posts, and into sleep. Waking up is not something that can be controlled very easily either.. Not without some pretty solid mental savvy/training,, etc... So what of the Hypnogogic/Hypnopompic states, and why should we be aware of them??

Think about it like this... When you are going to sleep,, and transitioning from a wakeful state,,, you are going into a non-linear way of thinking and experiencing thoughts. As your waking mind relaxes into the Hypnogogic states,, your mind (wether or not you notice) is desperately trying to make sense of the way that your dreaming mind is processing things. There is still a physical mindset that is 'observing' from a much more physical perspective, as it is not familiar with they non-physical/archetypal way in which we think when we sleep... This type of 'physical' to 'non-physical' transitioning, is the main difference between how the two states effect us and our ability to project. Now, when we are transitioning from sleep to wakefulness, the opposite is occurring. Now, we are using the non-linear dreaming mind functionality to try and make sense of the PHYSICAL waking mindset, as it comes into view. (The dreaming mind is just as confused by the waking mind, as the waking mind is about the dreaming mind.) However,, coming into wakefulness from this state creates the perfect mental conditions, because we are not weighed down by a whole day of mental processes. Also a non-linear mindset is still lingering upon waking up, and when your waking mind begins to engage,,,,, VIOLA.... The perfect conditions for projection. You can even wake up, go to the bathroom,,, maybe even go check your email and go back to bed and your system will still be 'primed' and getting into trance will become natural and simpler... Again, every time that we fall asleep trying to stay awake it increases our trance range, so don't get to frustrated,,, it is good training.

The hypnogogic and hypnopompic states can be used to your advantage... I was going to write a book about the implications of the hypnopompic states, and the potentially explosive effect that studying the transition from sleep to wakefulness could have on how we look at consciousness. I was going to call it,, HypnoPompeii... A play on words that compares the Hypnopompic state to an inevitable overflow of 'lava',,, which destroys our current take on reality,,, even in a single day!!


Training to master our thoughts and emotions is what we are doing.

There has been quite a bit of study into what causes the 'sleepwalking' phenomenon. Lots of observations, but not many solutions. Sleep walking occurs when complex actions are being DREAMED about, that somehow causes the bodies 'paralysis' mechanism to be bypassed. Sleep walking is much more common is children than adults because the adult has a more developed sense of natural 'boundaries', when it comes to the border between sleep and awake. Sleep walking is common with kids who also experience bedwetting and sleep paralysis... These are all natural things to happen as our system adjusts, and fine tunes the 'voluntary' and 'non-voluntary' physical body responses,, when it comes to sleep and awake... ( Of course, it can extend into adulthood.) This mechanism is natural. It does not require any thought or action on your part,, it is an automatic function. I would suggest that we keep an eye on these kids and begin to accept that they have a greater potential with regards Astral Projection and other dissociate events... But that is just me.!!


Jerry, you did not get terrified,, nor did you panic,,,,, and that is MOST of the battle... Time for you to begin setting goals.. Get a dream journal going, if you don't already have one. Write in them your goals. For example you can write in there what you are going to do the next time you find yourself in these conditions. Are you going to try an 'exit' technique? Which one? What are you going to do when you 'get out'? Think about it seriously and write them down... Cross them off as you go. You are right on the precipice of a fully conscious OBE... Your mind will be just as clear as it is now, but you will be VERY excited... Having written down your goals will come in handy at this point... I can't stress that enough..


This is a real phenomenon.. You are REALLY going to be out of your body!! So what are you going to do when you get 'out'??? (definitely not for me to decide) There are NO limits!!!!

Keep us updated, Jerry... You are ONE too.!!!!!
Jake.

Posted by Sebastion (here)
I have decided to open up a bit regarding my own private experiments regarding the brain and the importance of neurons. Bear with me while I try to put this as simply and straight forward as I can. This is a theory I have been working with for 30 plus years and it seems to have much merit!

First, Anthony Robbins has stated that it takes 21 days for anything to become a habit and he stated also that he didn't know why that was ( we are putting the clues together here!)

Next clue-I overheard a neurosurgeon state that after surgery, it takes 21 days for neurons in the affected area of surgery, to come back online and begin functioning again.

Next clue-as Sirdip keeps repeating, shut off your computer, tv, for 30 days as per Buhlman and focus on obes. Get my drift here? Could neurons, neural networks in the brain have anything to do with that? I would say emphatically, yes! Could it be that what is transpiring in the brain while you are practicing learning how to obe, your brain is developing the neural networks at the frequency you need in order to become aware of actually leaving the body?

Remember you could be leaving the body quite naturally all the time but are not aware of it because you haven't the neurons yet to allow you to be aware of it? Possibly.. Have patience with yourself and allow the brain to "wire" itself accordingly. Consciousness is electrical in nature which implies "frequency". Could it be that you may need to develop a neural network which is capable of opening up to the particular frequency that's required to become aware of oob travels? Methinks, after 30 years of personal experimentation that there is a lot more to this than anyone realizes. The possibilities are awesome.

When I looked back at what I had to do in order to induce/become aware of my spiritual traveling, I found by looking at my over-all consciousness, that I had specialized my consciousness to do so, unknowingly at the time. It was only by looking back, that recognition was possible. Methinks the only reason why this happened is because my brain had developed the neural networks to become more acutely aware of it. There is much more to this but enough for now.

Sebastion,, I am still letting your post sink in a bit... You are on to something that I have been considering for longo time too.... I want to do some poking around before I attempt a solid answer... I had read a while back that practicing to become more 'telepathic' would be shown to produce neural ganglia that could be reinforced and improved upon... I want to find that study before I blow it... lol.... There is much to say about what is happening as we lay a foundation for energetic flow... You have brought up one of the most important points yet,,, it takes 21 days of full ObE practice,, on average,,, before one can consciously project...

Wow! I am flabbergasted....

Jake.

[NancyV]

I started watching videos on Youtube a few days ago when you mentioned Tom Campbell, Jake. I absolutely love him! He explains things that I have been saying for many years but in a way that many can hear more easily. I think he does a better job than I do in how I attempt to explain things. I like that he's a physicist since physics has been one of my great interests since I was very young. I've had many friends who were physicists and once lived with a Swedish physicist in Acapulco. I LOVED arguing/debating with him about muons, gluons, quarks, energy, reality, God, etc. So I am very open to the way Tom Campbell relates things to physics. He brings physics and spirituality to a unified point. Thanks for mentioning him. I haven't looked at him for a long time although I have run across him before.

Any great physicist must reach the same "conclusions" that he has, although I doubt if he would ever reach an absolute conclusion because that would be a belief. According to Tom (and to me) all beliefs are limiting. They can block one to being open to further experiences and "realities". Beliefs are merely comfortable because we then need to look no further and we are happy that we have found an answer. Quite the contrary I find it to be a great comfort to KNOW nothing and to be open to looking at many things. Our personal experiences do not explain how it will be for anyone else. Tom also likes to say "nothing can be proven". All scientific axioms are merely theories. They cannot be proved. Look how long we got stuck with Einsteins E=MC squared because everyone accepted it as a proven conclusion! Like all other beliefs it was a limitation that only existed in the heads of those who believed it.

I regard beliefs as more of a tool. It was helpful for me to believe I could leave my body consciously, even though it happened spontaneously in my childhood. It was helpful to believe that a particular type of meditation would help me to leave my body, until I found out that it wasn't necessary so that belief got discarded. It helps to believe that I have power over negative beings. That is a very useful tool if you are in lower dimensions or dealing with negative entities here in this dimension.

So now I see beliefs as temporary, to be discarded when no longer needed, and always aware that they are merely a tool and not THE truth. I do much better with preferences than beliefs and I don't even know if there IS one truth or any absolute conclusion about anything, even when merged with Source/love and it feels whole and complete with nothing missing...when I return to my body my brain says there may be something else that I'm not aware of. This helps protect me from being a know it all guru type, which I would never choose to be. Guru types usually feel they KNOW what reality is for everyone. I'm not even sure what it is for me, much less anyone else.

[NancyV]

Sebation, 21 days sounds like an appropriate amount of time to retrain the neuron pathways. Now that you mentioned it I remember that it was probably around 21-30 days of dedicated meditation, 2.5-3 hours at a time, probably 5-7 days a week, before I consciously left my body for other dimensions. I usually say it was a month or two but it could have been 3-4 weeks. It was pretty quickly after I was full-on dedicated. We were living in Hawaii and I didn't have to work so when I became dedicated to meditating for the purpose of traveling the "inner planes", it was easy because I had few distractions (except for building a house on our property).

It seems like we must create these neural pathways with the power of our intention. It helps to have a belief that you can do it as I mentioned in my post about belief being a great tool. We probably have the power to do just about anything if we really want to, if we believe we can and if we dedicate time and concentrated effort to achieving it.

[Jake]

The capacity or ability of our sensory organs are very limited. The visible light just the electromagnetic wave with the lambda between about 0.7 and 0.4 micrometer, the sound wave between about 20 - 20.000 Hz. The other sensory organs also have very limited capacity. How our brain will capture the other thing or material beyond our sensory organs capacity? Sutarmo Vincentius Setiadji · University of Indonesia


Full article here.... I will highlight some of the more pertinent information.. This article goes into great detail about the anatomy and function of the brain, and the underlying neural support system. I posit that the brain supports the nervous system, as opposed to the nervous system supporting the brain. There are questions about 'perception' vs 'awareness',, but that is another subject all together...

Because of hundreds of brain stimulation cases, it was concluded that it was the mind, not the brain that watches and "at the same time directs. . .If decisions as to the target of conscious attention are made by the mind, then the mind it is that directs the programming of all the mechanisms within the brain." Is there really a "highest brain mechanism" that provides energy to the brain in a form that does not depend upon axonal potentials and flow? It was demonstrated that patients who were subjected to cortical stimulation, which presented an experiential remembrance event, were able to simultaneously experience the memory and discuss the experience. This is similar to the bilocution that is experienced during a Remote Viewing session. The viewer is keenly aware that he/she is sitting at a desk with pen and paper in hand but at the same time being aware of a mental presence at the "target site." Dr. Penfield labeled this experience of two streams of consciousness as "doubling of awareness." It was shown that the content of the flashback or dreamy state was dependent upon the concentration used when the memory was recorded in the brain and on which events were paid attention too. Only events meeting these two criteria were "played back." He concluded that three integrative mechanisms were operational:
1.Highest Brain-mechanism Located in the higher brain stem.
A 'grey matter' region (collection of neuronal elements).
Injury here could indeed produce a loss of consciousness.

2.Automatic sensory-motor mechanism Coordinates previously programmed by the mind

3.Experiential record Areas in the diencephalon and hippocampus (temporal lobe).


In only two cases did he notice that electrocortical stimulation produced forced thinking intellectual aura. Thus, he concluded that electrical stimulation could not activate the mind. For further reading on brain stimulation, see Ojemann and Calvin, Conversations with Neil's Brain.

The cortex is responsible for the content of consciousness. It has been demonstrated that destruction of certain regions of the cortex will not produce unconsciousness and it is the reticular activating system that is responsible for maintaining and maintaining activation of the thalamocortical system, a reciprocally connected system between the cortex and the thalamus (the "sensory clearing house of the brain"). In this thalamocortical system, most of the neurons receive inputs from other neurons and not from the sensory system. However, a large part of the cortical activity is not appreciated as part of the conscious experience but cortical activity indeed is necessary for the conscious state to exist.

Strange things indeed occur. For example, approximately 150 milliseconds to 350 milliseconds prior to our conscious awareness that a voluntary motor act is about to begin, an evoked potential can be recorded from the scalp. Libet called this the "readiness" potential. Therefore, free and voluntary acts begin unconsciously before awareness that the decision has been made to act has been created in the thalamocortical system. Libet's conclusion was that the cerebral initiation of a spontaneous act might begin unconsciously prior to the awareness in consciousness that that act is en progress. It begs the question "Just who is doing the programming?"

According to Edelman and Tononi (A Universe of Consciousness), one key element for consciousness is the presence of so called reentrant interactions for integration of various brain regions. This is felt to be a necessary, but not sufficient, condition for conscious experience. A study of the brain during certain seizure states and in slow-wave sleep show that the necessary conditions for consciousness may be met but the person is not actually conscious. In sleep, the neuronal firing levels are similar to the levels seen during the awake and fully-conscious state. It is the pattern of the neuronal firing that differs between the wake and sleep states.
Waking state/REM sleep: EEG shows fast, low-voltage waves indicative of many neuronal states.
Considered a state of high complexity.

Slow-wave sleep: EEG shows a diffuse pattern of high-voltage slow waves (burst pause).
Global synchronization patterns are seen
Highly reduced number of neuronal states
A state of low complexity.
Consciousness is lost as brain areas are synchronized.


Therefore, consciousness requires continuously changing patterns of neural activity and these patterns are spatially and temporally differentiated. This spatiotemporal integration of motor/sensory action is accomplished by reentry across brain maps. Edelman and Tononi postulate that the main mechanism accounting for neural integration is the existence of multiple parallel fibers with reciprocal connections between brain areas. We might ask, "What is the characteristic common to neuronal groups which act to sustain the conscious experience. Current research indicates that two key items are necessary and to paraphrase Edelman, they are:
1.A dynamic core (neuronal) group which constantly fluxuates in both integration and composition and contributes to the consciousness experience through reentrant interactions in the thalamocortical system with a high degree if integration reachable within hundreds of milliseconds.
2.This core, or functional cluster, must be of high complexity (i.e. highly differentiated). This cluster cannot be broken down into independent components. Such a core changes in spatial location, composition and in time. This core cannot be restricted/localized to a particular position within the brain. Such a system is termed complex, which implies that a disturbance created in one part of the system spreads to involve (or to connect) all parts of the system. Thus, consciousness is integrated.

Robert Bruce points out that; Understanding the relationship between OBE and physical body/brain memory storage appears to be the key to planned and repeatable OBE (Bruce, 23). Here memory plays a crucial part, as the downloading of the projected double's shadow memories must take place to make these memories available to the conscious physical mind in order for the OBE experience to be recalled. And how we recall memory has everything to do with how nerve ganglia communicates and responds... If we don't make it a point to build upon these systems, then we may not achieve success, when it comes to ObE

All of the corresponding neural systems will be supported and re-enforced with focused body awareness..


We actually exist in higher dimensions but are offset by the limits of the physical human body senses.. Therefore we experience a limited perspective and insist that we are 3d beings that 'sometimes' show variances into higher states of mind/consciousness...

I am still looking for the article that I had in mind. Clearly, Sebastion,,, we have something to sink our teeth into here.. Of course, we can't sum it all up with a couple of posts... lol... But this is all worth considering.


I'm going to find that article,,, dang it... I've heard it said that 'you can't grow new nerves'.. That is clearly false.

The mechanics of lots of these types of events are going to directly dovetail into how our subtle nervous systems are organized. I posit that it is the nerves and these subtle systems that are more central to consciousness. Not the brain.. We seem to have 'seated' our consciousness somewhere between, and behind the eyes.. That is an illusion,,, a way for our minds to make sense of it... It is NOT required. Being 'outside' of our body is not esoteric, nor is it occultish... It is an actual and practical part of the human experience..


Sebastion, you are a genius... Please let us know what you find...

Jake .

Posted by NancyV (here)
Sebation, 21 days sounds like an appropriate amount of time to retrain the neuron pathways. Now that you mentioned it I remember that it was probably around 21-30 days of dedicated meditation, 2.5-3 hours at a time, probably 5-7 days a week, before I consciously left my body for other dimensions. I usually say it was a month or two but it could have been 3-4 weeks. It was pretty quickly after I was full-on dedicated. We were living in Hawaii and I didn't have to work so when I became dedicated to meditating for the purpose of traveling the "inner planes", it was easy because I had few distractions (except for building a house on our property).

It seems like we must create these neural pathways with the power of our intention. It helps to have a belief that you can do it as I mentioned in my post about belief being a great tool. We probably have the power to do just about anything if we really want to, if we believe we can and if we dedicate time and concentrated effort to achieving it.

Ha! In a nutshell,, that is (I think) what we are tying to get too... The power of belief and focused intention is NOT just a fancy-dancy cliché,,, it is actual and pragmatic... Buhlman says about 30 days too.... Hmmm.. We are on to something...

Thanks NancyV!!

Jake.

[Sebastion]

As usual, lol! I completely agree with you! Methinks the only belief I have nowadays is that if I really, really seriously want to do something, I can find a way to do it. Problem is, that takes a lot of energy and I ain't getting any younger, lol! I look for simple, simple nowadays as a rule!

Posted by NancyV (here)
Sebation, 21 days sounds like an appropriate amount of time to retrain the neuron pathways. Now that you mentioned it I remember that it was probably around 21-30 days of dedicated meditation, 2.5-3 hours at a time, probably 5-7 days a week, before I consciously left my body for other dimensions. I usually say it was a month or two but it could have been 3-4 weeks. It was pretty quickly after I was full-on dedicated. We were living in Hawaii and I didn't have to work so when I became dedicated to meditating for the purpose of traveling the "inner planes", it was easy because I had few distractions (except for building a house on our property).

It seems like we must create these neural pathways with the power of our intention. It helps to have a belief that you can do it as I mentioned in my post about belief being a great tool. We probably have the power to do just about anything if we really want to, if we believe we can and if we dedicate time and concentrated effort to achieving it.

[Sebastion]

Well Jake, methinks I will lay out the rest of my theory as this seems to be the best place for it! I thank you guys for the support, otherwise I would have kept my mouth shut, or my fingers quiet!

First of all, my first experience that started the ball rolling for me, was my initial entry point to cosmic consciousness. At one point, I was standing outside of my body watching-I was sitting down at the time-and I saw what appeared to be miniature lightening bolts entering my physical body around my head and temple area. I was simultaneously able to see and feel from inside my body, that when an electrical bolt entered my head, that it was recognized as a thought coming in! Time was slowed down, seemingly so that I could observe the entire phenomenon. I watched as the thought registered in the brain and swept thru my entire nervous system! Then the thought was categorized and placed within the brain or you could call it, the mind shelf.

It was at that moment, that I knew that thinking did not occur in the brain but rather in the area of the crown chakra or nimbus which surrounds the area above the head. I knew also that it was the neurons, neural pathways which are responsible for the receiving of thoughts from immediately outside of the head. I suspect strongly also that the neurons also send thoughts out back to that area. In other words, it's your neural networks, neurons which is the body's link up electrically with your consciousness which surrounds and permeates the physical body.

I think also that the energy field which surrounds the body complex is your consciousness itself and your entire central nervous system is wired to it via neural complexes, etc. I could be wrong but what the hay! It is all quite marvelous to see how this system works and when it is understood for what it is, the possibilities are far greater then anyone realizes. I have one more explanation to finish this off but will save it for another post.

I thank you Jake for the compliment but believe you me, I am just the same as everyone else! I continue to thank all of you for your comments on this thread!

[Jake]

Posted by Sebastion (here)
Well Jake, methinks I will lay out the rest of my theory as this seems to be the best place for it! I thank you guys for the support, otherwise I would have kept my mouth shut, or my fingers quiet!

First of all, my first experience that started the ball rolling for me, was my initial entry point to cosmic consciousness. At one point, I was standing outside of my body watching-I was sitting down at the time-and I saw what appeared to be miniature lightening bolts entering my physical body around my head and temple area. I was simultaneously able to see and feel from inside my body, that when an electrical bolt entered my head, that it was recognized as a thought coming in! Time was slowed down, seemingly so that I could observe the entire phenomenon. I watched as the thought registered in the brain and swept thru my entire nervous system! Then the thought was categorized and placed within the brain or you could call it, the mind shelf.

It was at that moment, that I knew that thinking did not occur in the brain but rather in the area of the crown chakra or nimbus which surrounds the area above the head. I knew also that it was the neurons, neural pathways which are responsible for the receiving of thoughts from immediately outside of the head. I suspect strongly also that the neurons also send thoughts out back to that area. In other words, it's your neural networks, neurons which is the body's link up electrically with your consciousness which surrounds and permeates the physical body.

I think also that the energy field which surrounds the body complex is your consciousness itself and your entire central nervous system is wired to it via neural complexes, etc. I could be wrong but what the hay! It is all quite marvelous to see how this system works and when it is understood for what it is, the possibilities are far greater then anyone realizes. I have one more explanation to finish this off but will save it for another post.

I thank you Jake for the compliment but believe you me, I am just the same as everyone else! I continue to thank all of you for your comments on this thread!

Brilliant! Bravo!!! Even if you were not 100% correct, I'd be willing to wager you were in the upper 99 percentile... 'Mindshelf"! I like that too.. I've been privy to witness a similar process with Memories. Though, not directly over the crown but in the energy fields that surround the body. Also I've experienced witnessing multiple energy fields flowing and pulsing and the energy follows definitive paths and directional ebbs and flows and they are all interconnected... This is the same thing, methinks,, that correspond to the vast complex of nervous system... The subtle energies are part of a 'subtle' Nervous System that are very physical... This is where we begin to rethink our understanding of what is Physical, and what is Non-physical.. If you break it down like this, even the subtle energy systems and astral body can be consider to be Physical... However, when you find yourself out of your body,, you tend to really not care what the definition of Physical is,, as the rules change... Really, physicality is a POINT OF VIEW... I was told by another projector that she witnessed the same thing as I did but she noticed that when as the energy flows became 'in tune' or 'synced up' with each other, the Chakras began to glow, not from bottom to top (like I am usually aware of) but all at the same time. This is a fascinating aspect of consciousness. And a fascinating aspect of ObE!! I haven't really gotten into the energy fields that Surround the body. For the scope of the OB study, my plan was to make sure that we covered the basics, as an in depth, philosophical discussion can lead to much unneeded confusion. But this is turning into less Philosophical,, and more Nuts and Bolts... I've noticed energy centers in the energy fields around the physical body.. I haven't locked in a location for any of them... Ha, (like an electron,,, in know that they are there, but I haven't had any luck pointing to one.. lol..) Advanced energy work techniques deal with extending awareness beyond the body and into the energy field Around the body.. Extend the focused awareness outside the body and you can start to 'feel' the energy. It is never 'still'. Always moving/spinning/circling.. (that's how I feel it,,) Subtle neural fields... Sebastion, I am all ears when you are ready to continue... This is all fascinating...



NancyV,,, Tom Campbell is one of my favorites.. I tell ya, I missed my calling.. I should have been a physicist. I understand many of the deep theoretical 'problems' within physics, and can sing them like a canary sometimes... I have the deepest respect for ANY physicist.. That is a lot of work... It's not easy approaching these more 'esoteric' subjects when you have been completely programmed to brush them aside. Tom Campbell is a SKEPTIC... Well, not so much any more,,, lol... hahahaha!!! I haven't made my way through the MY BIG TOE trilogy, but I am making my way through the first one... Tom is friggin brilliant... Wouldn't you believe that it was Robert Monroe that came into Toms life and turned it upside down?? Tom loves to talk about 'back in the day.. lol... Toms boss threw the book 'journeys out of the body' by Robert Monroe and was told to read it, and tell him what he thought.. After a couple of days, he got back with his boss and made a couple of remarks about the book but nothing too intense.. This started the ball rolling with regards Toms explosive research into consciousness.. Tom was one the original 'explorers' group, before the idea for the Monroe Institute ever came into being... When Robert Monroe verified the legitimacy of the ObE, he set himself on a journey to get to the 'science' behind it.. That's where Tom Campbell comes in! Tom and Bob mad a deal... Tom was going to share everything he knew about science and physics and help Bob get Monroe Labs off the ground,,, and Bob was going to share everything he knew with Tom, and help him to get up and out of his body, so that they could begin to experiment scientifically... And O what a match they were... I studied with Bob Felix, who was also a member of the original explorers group with Bob and Tom... What they started is carrying over into a whole new generation. Tom is still alive and kicking,, and lecturing and debating and experimenting and writing... He is very active with regards getting this information out into to a broader public arena...

Here is a vid of him talking about the early days with him and Robert Monroe...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=PyUISj0hA6U

(Hey weird, look,,, the still of the vid above shows Tom Campbell out of his body... lol...)

A great deal of his experiences with Monroe is documented in Toms first Book, MY BIG TOE...



The Wizard of Whistlefield... lol... That's what they called Bob. lol. It's particularly funny because one of the chapters in the book is called,, 'Is this guy Monroe, Nuts, or what? That is poetry!! Tom and Bob were the first of their kind with regards putting actual science to 'altered states' and 'threshold consciousness'....


When Tom verified it for himself,,, he didn't stop there. He made sure that he brought friends and family into the isolation booths so that they could learn and grow too..

Consider this account from Tom Cambell...

"One of our first experiments was for Dennis and me to take a trip (experience) in the nonphysical together. Our independent descriptions of what we were experiencing should correlate closely if the experience were real and independent of either of us. From the beginning of our training, we had learned to give real-time descriptions of whatever we experienced. A microphone was suspended from the ceiling above each of our heads. What we said was recorded on tape. Dennis and I could not hear each other because we were in separate soundproof chambers.
Dennis and I quickly achieved the appropriate altered state, left our bodies, and met in the nonphysical as planned. It was a long adventure. We went places, saw things, had conversations with each other and with several nonphysical beings we happened to run into the long way.
Bob had let us go a long time before he ended the session and called us back. We pulled off our EEG and GSR electrodes and stumbled out of the darkness into the hallway of the lab.
In the control room, Bob was waiting for us. After a quick exchange, we knew that his would be a good test because we both had experienced many specific interactions. But were they the same interactions? Bob looked at us deadpan. 'So you two think you were together?' he asked, trying to sound disappointed. We looked at each other and shrugged our shoulders.
'Maybe,' Dennis said tentatively, 'at least we perceived meeting each other.'
'Listen to this!' Bob said emphatically. The tapes, rewound as we disconnected electrodes and climbed out of our chambers, began to roll forward. We sat down and listened. The correlation was astonishing. For almost two hours we sat there with our mouths open, hooting and exclaiming, filling in the details for each other. Bob was now grinning. 'Now that tells you something, doesn't it?' he exclaimed beaming. He was every bit as excited as we were.
I was dumbfounded. There was only one good explanation: THIS STUFF WAS REAL! (...)
We repeated that experiment with similar results. It wasn't a phenomenon that depended on the two of us. Nancy Lea and I shared equally astonishing joint experiences. We tried other things as well. We read three and four digit numbers written on a blackboard next to the control room. Somebody would write a random number and we would read it while our bodies lay asleep. Then they would erase it and write another one, and so on and on. We went places - to people's homes - and saw what they were doing, then called them or talked to them the next day to check it out."
- Dr Thomas Campbell (My Big T.O.E.)

There is much more to Tom than we can cover in just a couple of posts... But that's good for now. I'll end for the night by paraphrasing Toms analogy of OBE and how he regards it.. Very important perspective, methinks...

What If you lived your whole life alone in a single room with no windows, and maybe just a door. You couldn't open the door and go through it, but it is there. You've never met anyone or been outside. You didn't have a TV or radio,, just you in this single room for your whole life and that is all that you knew.. Well, let's say that one day you find a way to open the door, and you step out into your back yard... A whole new reality opens up to you that you had no idea existed. Now you can see the sky and space and trees and you can hear the dogs barking and see houses and folks mowing their lawns... You see birds and you can smell the air and a larger reality has dawned on you.... As amazing as it is,,,, It is still just your back yard.. There is more,,, much much more...

Cheers, all
Jake.

[Sebastion]

My god Jake, I wished I had known that stuff back in the day! I ordered the hemi-sync stuff before the institute came into being. I called down there to their offices as I wanted to go there. I was told by one of the secretaries that there was nothing to see as all that existed then was an office. Damn, I was way too early. I was sooo disappointed!

Moving on, I have to admit Jake that I have a few "bombshells' to share but the groundwork has to be covered first so that at least the basics are covered and it can be clearly seen and understood. Otherwise, I will sound like a raving lunatic and an outright fraud probably, maybe inevitably by many. I have some things to say that I have never told another human being and I am still pondering whether to remain silent or not. It is thus necessary, mandatory that the basic reasoning be understood first. The groundwork (basic) has been laid out fairly well but there are a few loose ends which must be tied up for a more complete understanding.

First of all, let's drop the brain and focus upon the "mind". The mind is not the brain, big difference! I contend as a result of much experimentation over the years, that it is the neurons which interact with the mind/consciousness. You don't even need the brain as has been proven in a few cases but you damn sure need the neural networks, etc to interface with the mind. That's for starters...

[Jake]

Posted by Sebastion (here)
My god Jake, I wished I had known that stuff back in the day! I ordered the hemi-sync stuff before the institute came into being. I called down there to their offices as I wanted to go there. I was told by one of the secretaries that there was nothing to see as all that existed then was an office. Damn, I was way too early. I was sooo disappointed!

Moving on, I have to admit Jake that I have a few "bombshells' to share but the groundwork has to be covered first so that at least the basics are covered and it can be clearly seen and understood. Otherwise, I will sound like a raving lunatic and an outright fraud probably, maybe inevitably by many. I have some things to say that I have never told another human being and I am still pondering whether to remain silent or not. It is thus necessary, mandatory that the basic reasoning be understood first. The groundwork (basic) has been laid out fairly well but there are a few loose ends which must be tied up for a more complete understanding.

First of all, let's drop the brain and focus upon the "mind". The mind is not the brain, big difference! I contend as a result of much experimentation over the years, that it is the neurons which interact with the mind/consciousness. You don't even need the brain as has been proven in a few cases but you damn sure need the neural networks, etc to interface with the mind. That's for starters...

All in good time, my friend. And at your own pace. Many of these truths are tough to conceptualize.. I used to have a rule about talking about this stuff.. It was only about 10 years ago that I opened up and began sharing again... When I wrote mee book, it was like therapy. I fest a major release of pent up tension by just getting the words out. As I thought it all out, something happened on a personal level. I began to ACCEPT it all, the good,, and the bad.. It was liberating. I've never looked back. When you are ready to drop some bombshells,,, I will take cover and pay attention.. lol

First of all, let's drop the brain and focus upon the "mind". The mind is not the brain, big difference! I contend as a result of much experimentation over the years, that it is the neurons which interact with the mind/consciousness. You don't even need the brain as has been proven in a few cases but you damn sure need the neural networks, etc to interface with the mind. That's for starters...

Yes, agreed. I'll drop the brain.. (Never figured that I'd ever type THOSE words, lol.) In fact I haven't considered the brain anything other than a supporting structure. You are right in my opinion,, it is the neurons, in and around the cells of the body and within and around the body... Fortunately, Sebastion,, we don't have to do all of the science ourselves. No! We have some pretty courageous researchers into consciousness that came before us... Have you ever heard of Bruce Lipton? His work comes into play right about here... Here is a quick bio.

Dr. Lipton began his scientific career as a cell biologist. He received his Ph.D. Degree from the University of Virginia at Charlottesville before joining the Department of Anatomy at the University of Wisconsin’s School of Medicine in 1973. Dr. Lipton’s research on muscular dystrophy, studies employing cloned human stem cells, focused upon the molecular mechanisms controlling cell behavior. An experimental tissue transplantation technique developed by Dr. Lipton and colleague Dr. Ed Schultz and published in the journal Science was subsequently employed as a novel form of human genetic engineering.

In 1982, Dr. Lipton began examining the principles of quantum physics and how they might be integrated into his understanding of the cell’s information processing systems. He produced breakthrough studies on the cell membrane, which revealed that this outer layer of the cell was an organic homologue of a computer chip, the cell’s equivalent of a brain. His research at Stanford University’s School of Medicine, between 1987 and 1992, revealed that the environment, operating though the membrane, controlled the behavior and physiology of the cell, turning genes on and off. His discoveries, which ran counter to the established scientific view that life is controlled by the genes, presaged one of today’s most important fields of study, the science of epigenetics. Two major scientific publications derived from these studies defined the molecular pathways connecting the mind and body. Many subsequent papers by other researchers have since validated his concepts and ideas.


Notice here that it says 'pathways that connect the mind and body'.. Not the BRAIN and the body!! Lipton began to show, scientifically,, that on a cellular level the cell membrane take it's cues from the environment via cell 'receptors',, and an RNA template is taken from the DNA based on the information provided by the cell receptors,, and the RNA 'solution' tells the protein columns what to do to resolve the issue.. That is how it is done at the cellular level. At the HUMAN level,, we don't take our cues from the environment. It comes from how we perceive and react to the environment/stimuli... Thus, the biology of perception and how the body organizes its communicative pathways based on how we perceive the world...

I've watched the following video probably ten times... I made my mom watch it because she is insistent on believing the current model of genetics which preach a predisposition to physical ailments and (in my opinion) promotes a victim mentality which prevents people from being able to take charge over their own bodies. And that perception may be the underlying cause of disease and illness,,, NOT the genetics...

Bruce Lipton is very much ahead of his time...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=WnmaiWWZ3fc

The only other Lipton Vid that I found that beats that one is the one with him and Tom Campbell discussion Consciousness. A world renowned NASA physicist and a world renowned Stem Cell Biologist discussion the very same things that we are discussing here... The biology of consciousness and the seat of perception.. We are making headway, Sebastion... People around the world are working very hard to help us understand what is happening to us... This discussion between Tom and Bruce is priceless..

Consciousness/physics/biology... From a much higher point of view, they are the same thing...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=BjDQzCq6FdM

I know that these vids are long, but they are worth the journey,, and they dovetail into what we are discussing...


Cheers
Jak.e

[Jake]

I think you may like this one too, Sebastion.. Another completely unbiased and scientific study into the OBE came by way of studying a new concept in neurophysiology called 'mirror neurons'. A mirror neuron is a neuron that fires both when an animal acts and when the animal observes the same action performed by another Thus, the neuron "mirrors" the behavior of the other, as though the observer were itself acting.. Mirror neurons were first noticed by chance by observing different brain patterns of monkeys. One day one of the scientists was reaching for its food and noticed the neurons fired in one of the monkeys as if it had, itself,, reached for the food. But it was perfectly still and observing.. Mirror neurons have been the subject of much discussion within the Neurological Studies communities recently.. So far, everything that I have read seems to assumed that the mirror neurons are the CAUSE of things like; emotion, empathy, intention... Of course the deeper concepts into consciousness are, admittedly,, not tackled in this study, but it relates directly to the study of OBE and the different subtle bodies and the neural interfaces that connects mind/perception and becomes our view of 'physicality'... The full PDF can be found here...

FROM MIRROR NEURONS TO MIRROR
HALLUCINATIONS: GAPS IN OUR CURRENT
UNDERSTANDING OF AUTOSCOPIC PHENOMENA


The article goes into great detail, but let me lay down the scope of it...

There are 4 types of autoscopic phenomenon.. One is the 'feeling of a presence in the room with you'.. Another 'seeing the double from your physical perspective'.. The next is 'seeing your physical body from the doubles perspective'.. And then there is the fully conscious OBE... The first and the last are not the focus of this particular study, though the perceptual reality of the ObE is not dismissed.. It does not cover the 'feeling of a presence', or the ObE,,, It focuses in, specifically on the perception of the middle two,, seeing yourself from either the physical perspective or the 'doubles' perspective,,, even shifting between the two..

Every one of these 'autoscopic phenomenon' are different perceptual phases of the ObE.. The first one is a probable cause of much of the Dweller phenomenon...

A fascinating link is established between Mirror Neurons and the mechanics of ObE and the disassociation between different phases, or modes of conscious perception... (I posit that the mirror neurons fire IN REACTION to things such as empathy,, etc... Rather than the neurons being causal...)



I am glad that smarter folks than me have laid it all out for us... !!!


Cheers
Jake.

[Sebastion]

I am going to listen to the two scientists video carefully before I respond again. In the meantime, some really good material from Dr Joe Dispenza, which is powerful good stuff:

http://www.amazon.com/Joe-Dispenza/e/B001IGX24Q

Dr Joe is a living example of what Bruce Lipton has to say. Joe Dispenza is a remarkable man and expounds greatly on neurons, etc. I highly recommend his "placebo" book which is his third book. For me it was a quick read and I will probably read it again shortly as some of his material can back up what I have to say as well.

[jerry]

What a evening last night! From what I can tell no OBE remembered, but the dreams were numerous, it was as though as soon as I dozed off I was dreaming. I awoke frequently recording at least half a dozen different dreams and what I remembered of them, as most seemed sketchy at best. One was peculiar in the fact that I dreamed I was having an OBE. I preceded to walk outside. I want to say through the wall. There was no familiarity in the surroundings in the dream and was during the day, and the fact it was at night(real time) seems to confirm this was a dream . This was the 1st of the evening and in it I looked very different, kind of a sinister hitlarian look to be frank. There was no vibrations or paralysis, I recall, and the other dreams of the night were not as lucid as the 1st ( the obe ) . Just wanted to share this , thanks to all for all the feedback

[Mark]

Posted by Jake (here)
Boy o Boy,,, you are one too.. I have moved around a lot throughout my childhood. I averaged a different school per grade level. 13 different schools by the time I was a senior in High School... I must have slipped through some of the cracks as far as MILAB nets are concerned.

Yeh. Consider yourself blessed. I am getting a number of different warnings, upon different levels of consciousness - as well as my direct experience atm - not to address this topic further despite my desire to do so. I will follow that guidance at this time.

Posted by Jake (here)
I have memory fragments from my childhood that haunt me.. I don't really like to think about many of those memories...

I know what you mean. Believe me.

Posted by Jake (here)
I remember sneaking out at night, as a 5 or 6 year old and riding my bike into the forest and orchards wherever I lived... This went on for quite a few years. I remember doing the same thing when I first got a skateboard, so we are talking a decade,... Of course it was not often, not at all... But sitting here right now I can't remember a single time when I snuck back into bed after having snuck out... There is more there that I have not yet tackled.. I knew that I was different..

You were a nightstalker too, huh? I remember those years. Some parts of them as well. A feeling of protection in the night, of being watched over. A discarnate presence with you, observing.

Posted by Jake (here)
I've always been so hellbent on trying to stop it... I never thought that I'd ever find folks who were having the same experiences,, I thought it was just me... Now here we are!!! Experiencing the awakening from the front lines!!

It is amazing how life turns out. The directions it takes and the compatriots you find along the way. There is such a symmetry to experience that it seems to me to be far beyond any form of coincidence. The jigsaw-like "fit" is just too perfect.

Posted by Jake (here)
I accepted the challenge within myself to figure out what was happening to me. It really is mind boggling to me that we are on the precipice of this becoming a planetary reality.. And not only do we get to watch, but we get to participate.. [I] I had an OBE once where I found myself looking back at planet earth. I was looking for more astral projectors. I saw these tiny little flickering lights, scattered scarcely over the planet. Some of them were small constant dots, but most were flickering,,, and there were NOT very many of them... I woke with the sense that I was on my own, and would not find another projector... Years later, while contemplating the OBE that I just mentioned,,, I found myself out of my body looking down at the planet... I couldn't see any dots or flickering lights, as there was a 'glowing' that I could not see through, to identify a single dot or flicker.... Coming back to the physical, I knew that it meant that there are enough folks getting up and out of their bodies for me to become convinced that something has been started that cannot be stopped...

Just recognizing the shift in consciousness reaffirms your experience out of body. When I was a kid in the 70s and teen in the 80s, being interested in sci-fi, fantasy, mystical experiences and ancient history was far from as prevalent as it is now. It was practically non-existent in the general population back then. Practically everybody was in a state of sleep still. In the schools we attended it was necessary to be silent, to hide these experiences from others, and just to coexist or even fit in was impossible no matter how hard it was attempted. My bare minimum of social acceptance only came because of my cultivated skillsets, varsity basketball and track, jazz musician, artist, etc. I was always the odd duck. And still am, even in a place like PA. But it is nice to find those who commiserate and share similar experiences and understandings, which is more common in a place like this than anywhere else.

But now ... things have shifted. Kids in HS can speak of these things with other kids their age, there are more of them around. And the big groups of Indigos and Crystals are in their teens and early 20s. So they are definitely shifting things more in the consciousness direction. But there are still many of us Gen-X'ers, who I believe were the Generation that continued the shift that the Boomers started, in such a low-key manner that most people don't even realize that we had anything to do with it, other than birthing the Gen Y-Z'ers.

No, it cannot be stopped. But as those who are using every attempt at their disposal to contain and control it realize that, the potential for an attempted disruption of the inevitable may still be considered, although it cannot succeed at any level.

Posted by Jake (here)
You have a deep penetrating mind. I am humbled by your attitudes regarding the transformational potentials of Western thinking with regards consciousness.. We are starving for it,, just like you said! Hiding it from folks who are experiencing a deepening of their spirit/consciousness seems to be leaving a 'vacuum' of energies that are manifesting in ways that resonate with a Global awakening into consciousness.. I have always known that Avalon is one of these places where we begin to offer solutions and move forward... Rahket,,, I can't say it better than you. Bravo!! We are making a difference... I really have felt traumatized, and that I never had a choice.... These days,,, Ha!!! I wouldn't trade it for the world... Even though it still scares the **** out of me sometimes.... lol....

There are a number of transformational potentials apparent and concurrent in Western culture that are on the rise, both negative and positive. Most are beyond the scope of this thread. But that "vacuum of energies" that you reference does indeed include these oppositional energies that compete for supremacy within the mentalities of all of us who ARE Western culture, and that includes those of us of split-consciousness, and by that I mean the children of the colonized, the black and the brown, those of us who live in double-consciousness daily, being forced into disassociation at a young age by the vagaries of society and culture. To "fit in" to a culture that rejects validity of your biological essence as a basic condition of its continuation. This, in addition to those of us within these larger populations with the added "burden" of possessing a split-consciousness of the type described in detail in this thread.

This is, again, the gift and the curse of Western thinking and culture, the additive and subtractive ability to simultaneously elevate and degrade members of that selfsame culture based upon external conditions that are also a part of the overall cultural expression, i.e. freedom and slavery, equality and inequality, all of the great paradoxes of life and living in the terrible and wondrous times. In a sense, the desire for freedom that is required to transcend the physical boundaries as well as the societal ones, is augmented by the greater restrictions that may be placed upon material conditions. Another aspect that was relevant to my own experience.

All of these aspects are swirling around in the aether around us, all a part of the great hologram, the archontic infiltration, the cultural and familial blessings and curses. The detritus through which we must stumble before freeing ourselves from it all in order to experience reality unadulterated in the form we are expressing here in this thread specifically and on PA in general. The solutions are present here, as are the obstacles.

Posted by Jake (here)
Thank you for your support, my friend.. I am not going to stop helping folks through some of the rough spots until my physical body retires... Then I will find another one and keep doing much of the same.... I will start by doing it in this life,,, right here at Avalon!!!

Yes, I read in one of the more recent comments that you do not seek enlightenment.

I am sorry to inform you, my friend, that that is exactly the attitude you must take in order to achieve it.

Bless.